Complete Documentary Of The Heinkel He 280 Jet Fighter - Right Place, Wrong Time
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- Опубліковано 9 лип 2021
- This is the complete video history of the Heinkel He 280 - the world's first jet fighter to take to the skies. While being passed over for the Me 262, the He 280 remained as a respectable and powerful plane that could perform very well in a dogfight, but couldn't do much else. While it showed much promise, it was not forward thinking enough to be successful, as it incorporated many old concepts into its design, of which made it an excellent plane to fly, but also stunted its versatility. It simply did not have the political forces, development, and sheer luck that the Me 262 had, which ultimately spelled the end for this marvelous plane. Though it wouldn't have improved the war situation for Germany in 1944, had it been introduced earlier, as it was flying sooner than the Me 262, it could have been used in a limited capacity when dogfighters were still a priority. Alas, fate said otherwise, and the Me 262 is now recognized as the first production jet fighter in history.
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forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...
www.thoughtco.com/heinkel-he-...
www.militaryfactory.com/aircra...
aircraft.fandom.com/wiki/Hein...
www.historyofwar.org/articles/...
ww2aircraft.net/forum/threads...
www.thisdayinaviation.com/tag...
www.defensemedianetwork.com/s...
www.luftarchiv.de/index.htm?/f... - Ігри
This is quite an interesting video, didn't even knew the 262 had a rival. Thanks for making this video!
This was kinda the anscestor for the me262 the Me262 was the first operational the he280 was the first EVER
Very informative and well-produced vid. Thanks!
I hope they add this in WarThunder like they did with the P-59 trough an event, as they in those last two/ two and half years tent to put much higher br / top tier stuff in events, i hope they can find a proprier balance with mid tier and high tier event awards.
I think it would be a great German version of the P-59. They were apparently quite similar in terms of maneuverability, based on reports I've read for each. The US never tested the 280, however. I think it would be a good 6.0 or 6.3 aircraft, though I wouldn't mind it as a purchasable premium, simply because, as you said, Gaijin is no longer really doing mid tier vehicles as rewards. It's all high and low tier vehicles. If they released this like how they did the Su-11, I would purchase it immediately. Making this video made me extremely curious as to if it would have been produced.
@@Tankenstein I don't know what else to add, i completely agree with you!
Tank you! Excellent info on this rare plane! Well done.
Also;
really interesting to see clips of the interior workings
and testing
of those first jet engines !
Holy moly !
-I haven't even looked that closely at this video, but I actually saw a Heinkel He-177 Greif in the background ... plus that extremely interesting He-280 jet fighter. -I'd love to see what those other planes in the background were, but I'm looking at this on a very small screen.
-Super interesting video !
Thanks for uploading it 👍
-Cheers from Iceland 🇮🇸
Where did you get that photo of speed version 262. Your a genius well done
this vidio is actully underated
This gives me an Iron Arminian vibes, i love learning about old tech.
Sustantial sections.of several He 280s were seen and photographed by occupying British RAF 'erks' lying around a fire dump at a Luftwaffe aerodrome post war, and as late as 1947!
I havent seen said images for decades but remember them well from 'The Aeroplane' magazine. The 280 is such an important first generation jet fighter, and along with the Arado.Ar.234B.& C 'Blitz' jet recce/bomber, are among my all time favourite aircraft.
Good video.with some great footage. Thanks.
Me too , sir . Ooer , am I allowed to say that , nowadays ?
3:20 As early as 1935 Busemann found and published the benefits of swept wings.
The explanation is even contradicting to regular design criterions. Heavy items, such as engines, are usually placed in front of the neutral point. If these engines are heavier than anticipated the wig needs to be swept forward for compensation. Thus it is more likely that the Germans simply fooled the interrogator.
Another such indication is that the horizontal and vertical stabilizer were even more swept.
This to let the compressibility occur on the main wing first. On the me262 this is the case. On every modern airliner this is the case evenly.
Due to the fact that German engineers successfully fooled the interrogators the cowboys continued with straight wings until the 1950s.
I was thinking the same thing. There is no way the swept wing was an unintended consequence.
@@tkgus2408 Thank‘s Gus !
I really hope they add the HG series and this plane to WT. I play the 262s, but either I’m extremely bad or the planes just cannot perform compared to the competition. The HG 2 and 3 around 7.7 to 8.0 would be cool
I agree! I should probably do an HG series video. I've got all the knowledge together. But yeah, the HG 1 for sure, and I think the HG II was also built, so it should be added
@@Tankenstein yeah the HG III never flew I believe, but it was a pretty thorough concept. I think that sounds like a good video concept because I know many people don’t know about the HG versions!
Great series of vids. New subscriber.
Boom and Zoom became the only method of fighter combat from 1941 forward. In this type of combat, maneuverability takes a back seat to rate of climb, rate of dive, and "energy state" fighting. Me262 FTW.
The problem with early jets was abysmally slow throttle response. Well, that and unburnt fuel pooling in the nacelles. That problem led to engine fires fairly frequently at first.
Very interesting!
Nice, good information
Nice doc
Good content.
Nice
Heinkel is probably my favourite aircraft manufacturer they produced some cool planes like the he 100, he 112, he 280, and he 162 but never really saw much action or development
HE 219 was arguably the best night fighter of WW2. Again its development was hindered by politics
Ernest Heinkel does not liked the nazis, and was not a favorit of the NSDAP.
On the opposit, Willy Messerschmitt a was a " dear" of the NSDAP.!!
@@peppermill7163
And the He-219, was the first operacional a/c on the world
with Ejection Seats as standart equipment.
A long time before the English claimed to have "Invented" the jetturbine the Germans actually flew a plane with jets, which a man named Ohain had invented and much different from the English engines.
Only stupid boys will start this silly discussion once more.
@pegamini and both became friends after the war .
Hi. Von Ohain himself gave Whittle credit for invention. He studied Whittle's 1930 patent of a gas turbine jet for aircraft. Whittle had studied the patents of sir Charles Parsons, inventor of the steam turbine, and French developments. Von Ohain's improvement of Whittle's design was to change the centrifugal compressor to axial. Like most inventions it was a series of improvements by many gifted people. Cheers, P.R.
Love this plane! 🇩🇪🙏❤️
Very Beautyvoll Airplane
I really hope WT puts more historical early jets in the game. I'm sick of (frequently) worthless low tier premiums and overpowered high br jets. I love low tier jets, and this could have some promise in the game.
Better and faster than the ME 262.
But politics stopping this Airplane
The German high command was probably the reason they lost the war. The Aformentioned HeS30 was actually faster in development, much lighter and used fewer scarce materials than the Jumo 004 and the bmw 003. By using this engine an me262 could save easily 500kg/1100pounds weight with smilar performance and lower crossection, aloowign for higher speed climb and turn rate while increasing the range. The reason why it was cancelled was because the chief designer wasnt liked that much. Absolutely insane
Oh yeah. For sure
Not the only reason, but god they didn’t help.
One has to be careful about the accuracy of these informations…..many of these claims are based on statements of biased individuals who claimed these things after the war was lost (like Messerschmitt falsely blaming Hitler for the delayed Me 262 introduction)
The German jet engines that went into serial production were all underperforming because of the shortages of scarce metals!
Otherwise they would have been lighter and/or offering more thrust at the same weight…..
The reason they lot the war was high treason from top to bottom, period.
Yeah I heard Hitler likeed Willy more than Heinkel.
A beautiful aircraft, most 1 gen jets had straight wings so its not an issue. Also, the Heinkel engines had better power to weight ratio than the Jumo 004 hence the 280 should indeed be more agile than the 262. But the Heinkel engine problems were never sorted out, otherwise there might have been a production run..
There is not enough information available for me to judge whether this is better than Me-262, however i personally like the shark like fuselage of the Me-262 better while the overall rounder appearance of the He-280 looks more sympathetic, less threatening. Less PREDATORY.
A shame none have survived, these planes deserved to be kept as a memento of their technological development, a milestone in aviation history.
@Räche SD After the war, several of the Third Reich´s aircrafts, including 262s, were given to Israel, ironically.
@@sim.frischh9781 There were made in soviet-occupied chechoslovakia, so its logical that they give them what they could (ussr wasnt ready to share its new toys, and 262 wasnt new and served in serveral air forces). Same story with weird 109 with jumo engine in israel TT.
Hello does anyone know the rlm colour these 280s were painted? I'm mid build of a 1/48 scale model but it sure of the colour I should use, thanks
I wonder if a scaled up version of the He 280, fitted with 4 engines could have become a schnell bomber?
He 343.
@@StabyMcStabsFace Not what I meant. Anyway, the He 343 was based more on the Ar 234 than the He 280.
I have never heard that the swept wings of the ME262 was done for weight and balance reasons. Could you please direct me to your source of that information?
While this isn't the exact source I used, it still corroborates the information: science.howstuffworks.com/messerschmitt-me-262.htm
@@Tankenstein CG adjustment was certainly not the reason for a swept wing. In such a case there would not have been a need to make swept tail wings. Obviously the Germans knew quite well that compressibility should develop on the main wing first. That‘s why the tail wings were swept even more to keep the aircraft controllable.
The German scientists certainly fooled the Fnglish interrogator not to let them know the true reason.
While the Germans used swept tail wings at that time the West continued with elliptical tail wings and even with such a book board like on the Vampire.
I believe the Fnglish did not know why they sacrificed so many test pilots.
6:47 Heinkel 280 AND He 177...both in motion!
Crazy, right? I was amazed that there is footage of both. Crazier is that the He 280 footage is, for the most part, so clear and so smooth. Maybe I should make a quick He 178 video now that I have the footage?
It was definitely more agile then the 262, even if it meant less top speed. A bit of a shame but a good thing it wasn't put in production
why is it good that it didnt be produced?
@@fedcen didn't you see it was for political reasons?
@@fedcen
One more killing machine for the nazis. ??
Those who start wars, have to be defeated.!!
@@matheuscerqueira7952 Not as much as practical. Despite clear superiority of any other turbojet engines 280 was to be fit with its own engines. And RLM had no leverage over it, as it was not state-funded project. That and also un-readiness to production. Germany aviation future was already set on 262 as well, it started earlier and was simply better, as he-280, as it is put there, more akin to P-59 or early meteors, 262 is simply better. And by the time 280 could match 262 performance there were already HG series, new engines, new concepts and modifications for 262. To put it simply: All planes that ended up in german air force were simply few steps ahead of opponents.
Well as an old fighter pilot i think the ME-262 was much better fighter.....Thanks
Old Shoe🇺🇸
Now what was a better aircraft, the ME 262 or the Heinkel 280?
probably me 262
It appeared to be a sound aircraft but as Germany was on the defensive by the time it would have seen production, it’s better that Germany focused its energy on the seemingly better design. As stated, the airframe technology of the HE was behind the engine technology, whereas the Me262, by accident or not, was a better airframe for jet technology.
The He-280 was designed pretty early on to use the vastly superior HeS 30 engines. Had the airframe and engines been pushed through; small numbers could be flying in late 1942 and large scale operations in the following 6 months.
Also he 280 had ejection seats which saved the life of many test pilots.this would have been great for germany as they couldn't lose skilled aces
This aircraft could have entered service much earlier than the 262, and whilst overall not as good an aircraft, would have given the Luftwaffe a golden opportunity to gain experience with operating jet aircraft, write SOP's, establish tactics etc. All the sort of non sexy stuff that a weapons system needs doing in order for it to be effective.
- The Me-262 was stalled for nearly 2 years from being deployed by Hitler's insistence that it be turned into a ground attack fighter with a ridiculously long 50 mm canon barrel sticking out of its front noes. Not because he was stupid like most history books would want you to believe.
- But because he wanted a Tank busting Wart Hog to stop the Soviet & US tank onslaught.
- But because Germany was getting hammered by constant bombing. That program was stopped & the fighter version was unleashed. Too little & too late.
- Incidently one Me-262 was also fitted with a red *Komet's* rocket engine inside the tail towards the end of the war that shot down a *P-47 Thunderbolt* during one of its test runs.
- Since the *regular 262* was clocked @ *605 mph* in one test run, I wonder if the rocket assist 262-C could have beat Yeager to the *over Mach 1* threshold 2 years earlier?
It would be more useful in the eastern front then the 262
And that why...He 178 is here. 262 is the future of german aviation, 178 is a tester. Honestly no idea why it wasnt done, as small squadron of these thing (like 10-12) would given good ideas early on.
Great video. But, “junkers” is pronounced “yoon-kas” FYI. 😎👍
The ME 262
Thank God that Hitler had no vision for the development of jets as fighters, but insisted on them having bomber capabilities. Speedy development and production could have made a difference in the air war.
The main point is as you said a bridging aircraft between prop and jet, that only had the benefit of speeds of over 500 mph. possibly between 60 to 100 mph faster than any allied prop fighter. It would seem a very significant program to have running. Even with 3 20mm cannons and maybe 3-400 of these flying against the heavy bomber attacks by the end of 43, I think they would have changed things, maybe not to change the end, for the russians were going to steamroll anyway, but a change in air superiority even for a brief time in early 44 would have eased production worries and allowed greater volume of vehicles to reach the eastern front, slowing their progress to maybe where the allies accept surrender before the russians take Berlin. This what if is always speculative.
Me 262 is a more sophisticated airframe over the he 280
It looks like it wouldn't have looked out of place in Korea in the early fifties.
Heinkel and the RLM missed a bet the 280 could have licensed the design to Italy and Japan in 1942. Good thing that never happened
Well, japan...didnt really made something good in terms of jet power. Even as prototype. They couldn`t even made proper rocket engines for their me163 variant.
Why do you keep saying "of which" when you actually just mean "which"? "...had straight wings, of which were not conducive..."
O is a letter, 0 is a number.
Zehr gut . und Junkers is aktually Yunkers > no pronounce hard J ! Danke .
I forgot the short range, probably a great training aircraft at least, single point bomber interceptor, Hitler did make the bomb racks go on the 262's soo, I'd think all political favoritism aside, the 262 was more versatile at least
Me 262 speed version 624mph. Ok
Thank you for sharing and your thorough work ! It is a good question, I think they were both excellent aircraft. The biggest problem the Germans had was dealing with the Allied bombing campaign. Whatever aircraft would have been better for that job I think would have been the choice of the day.
I would question that , sir . I think the biggest problem was the High Command ! Can we imagine the effect of multiple attacks by waves of He 280s with three 30mm cannon easily (12 months ahead of the 262) ? ok so they chose the 262 , then Hitler refuses to accept defensive weapons , only offensive ones . So this extraordinary fighter was lumbered with two x 250 or 500kg bombs !
„Tschunkers“
الان اعترفتم ان المانيا اول دولة صنعت واخترعت النفاث محرك العصر الحالى
Informative short video about German Hainkle fighter jet aircraft of Nazism Germany 🇩🇪
Much better the two company more plane production More.......production plane..jet fighter's...
Vee make zem gut in Germany, eh Heiny?
Germany could, by going with the 280, have had a decent jet fighter at least six months earlier than they did. That would have made a big difference.
Not true. The problem was the JUMO engine that reached acceptable levels by mid 1944, not earlier. The only way for Germany to get an reliable jet earlier than it did would be to put the foolishly abandoned HeS30 jet engine into production by the end of 1942. With it the He 280 could have been operational by mid 1943.
@@andrejguesswho9837 The o
ptobkenje id of clutter thdGjzbs
AS good as it was, the Me-262 was better and that doomed it from the start.
Explain how the 262 is better. Are you only looking at top speeds?
@@StabyMcStabsFace The Me-262 using the same Jumo 002 engines had greater range and better handling at high speed, due largely to better aerodynamics and the semi-swept wing. The 280 did well (for the time) at lower speeds but it's straight wing and poor aerodynamics hurt it at speed, which was the major point of jet aircraft.
@@kl0wnkiller912 In the context of having to both use 004s and in mid to late '44, yes. The 280 could have been ready two years previous and would have matured with the HeS8/BMW 003 until the HeS 30 was ready. The 280 being a better handling A/C and even more so with the HeS 30 (AKA 006). The Jumo 004 was too big and far too heavy for the 280. HeS 30 vs Jumo 004;
Thrust: 860kg vs 900kg
Weight: 390kg vs 720kg
Push development of the HeS 30 (it was a weird combo of early RLM meddling really on precipitating several layers of personal conflict between design teams, that held that engine up) and build both jet fighters. Each one in their own time. The 280 in late '42 would have set the world on fire. For that matter, the 262 with the better engine might have had a better time turning, certainly climbing.
it had a lot of engine problems
Funded on hienkels own reichmark
Swept wing was a consequence of the engine weight. Realy? So By this point of view today almost all the plains with swept wing have engine weight problems? Lol. OMG these ("Comentators") people are incredibile the plane was designed since begining like that for handling and speed purpose except the landing gear like we see in all plains today.
It was the first mass produced jet fighter. They were learning the ropes and did not have as complete of an understanding of physics and aerodynamics as we do today.
You are completely right !
The explanation is in opposition to physics .
The German scientists obviously fooled the interrogator observing this guy unable to understand this.
I would have done it in the same way !
casa lino casa lino Correct ! The wing had to be swept to compensate the heavier engines affecting the c/g . True. Later on they found that sweeping the wings back slowed down the shock-waves . But that was a bi-product .
Hi. When a plane is designed, the engine manufacturers give a weight range for the finished engine. The aircraft designers factor that weight into their calculations. Unfortunately with a new design of engine, the maker is often guessing because big changes might need to be made. There's a certain amount of trial and error, especially in matching a ground-breaking new plane to a ground-breaking new engine.
The British DH 82 Tiger Moth had sweep added to its wings to compensate for the Gypsy engine being lighter than expected, (or the rear of the plane heavier), and the engine was made by the D.H company itself!. This is called "an in-house muck-up". We're all human. Cheers, P.R.
He-280 was uglier than Me-262 which ugly in a a good way.
Good video, but you must learn about pronouncing words from not your language.
When I heard yours Junkers jumo, well, you throw me through the roof.
No hard feelings.
German technology advanced the world by about 50 years, historians say...