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Hello, cultured Jinni how are i was curious about some things related to Islam based on what you said about the trade routes through the mountains and the mention of Jeddah in Thamudic inscriptions sure a small city or a town could have existed before 690 CE but what we can say is that the Islamic traditional narrative on Mecca is wrong because based on archaeological evidence we know that most of Arabia from 300 CE to 600 CE was going to through a Christian revolution and polytheism was gradually declining in Arabia and I doubt Mecca was a big trading city in all of Arabia with 360 idol gods it was just like Taif or Yathrib. We know that a masjid was built by Abdal Malik in 698 CE that would known as the forbidden masjid what we can say is that before 690 CE in Mecca, there was no shrine called Kaaba with 360 Idols it was just a small town or city with many houses and buildings and the inhabitants were mainly heretical Christian sects. Mecca is as old as Taif or Jeddah.
I do think that Mecca is still among the stronger things to be able to exist according to the classical historic narrative (a trade city in the middle of the hijaaz), and sure polytheism was probably declining even before Islam, but that does not mean that it could not have been still a significant part of society and Mecca was at least some sort of local center for this, probably mixed with a lot of Abrahamic groups there too. The Ka'ba seems also similar to older pre-islamic practices found further north and south of Mecca too, so it is not out of what would be expected.
@@theculturedjinni To me it seems that Polytheism in Hejaz probably declined and most of the inhabitants of Hejaz were heretical Christians, Zoroastrians, and Mandeans and possibly followed other religions what happened was that when the Abbasids came to power they created this whole religion of Islam as we know it today about a Prophet named Muhammad who is born in a big city that is the centre of the world and how he will be the last and final prophet there was a great debate on where should this big city be some said it should be in Petra others said it should be Jeruslam others said it should be near Baghdad and others were like it should be Mecca in Hijaz this all happend in the Abbasids era and after many years of argueing they all agreed it should be Mecca and what they did was they were creating a new religion with a new prophet so they wanted to put greater emphasis on their new religion so what they did was when they were creating the biography of this new prophet they were decided to add Nabatean gods and deities and shrines in this big city so to portay their prophet as a saviour for mankind who is born in this city and then he recieves devine revalations and becomes a prophet of God and liberates this city from idol worship they did this to explain the Quranic corpus and why Mecca was important for their new religion.
@@DomainofKnowlegdia We do know that Islam at least existed in somewhat of recognizable form in the middle of the Umayyad period (turn of 7-8th century), as we even have textual manuscripts of the quran and even the earliest evidence of hadiths & sira by then so Islam must have at least appeared before then and cannot have been invented during the abbasids. Furthermore, we actually do not know how strongly polytheism still existed in the hijaz but we do know that it still existed the peninsula by the time of Mohammed as in the southern parts of Yemen and Oman we know that despite a strong presence of Christians & jews there still existed large parts of the population that believed in the old south arabian gods and it would not surprise me if it was the same or even more the case in the Hijaz.
@@theculturedjinni The seerah, Quranic corpus and the hadiths were not the same as we know them today during the middle of the Ummayad period Quranic corpus was already compiled in Arabic by Abdal Malik who changed the language to Arabic from Syriac Aramaic. The Quranic corpus was originally in Syriac Aramaic but later Abdal Malik compiled it and changed the language into Arabic from its original language what can say about the original Quranic corpus is that it was collection of myths and legends from the Syriac church of east that later became the Quranic corpus as we know it today. The Seerah was finalized in the Abbasid period since it borrows material from other middle eastern religion of its time we can say that the entire biography of prophet Muhammad is a later Abbasid invention and the hadiths are orall narations which predate Islam.
@@theculturedjinni Even if we accept that some form of polytheism did exist in Hejaz it doesn't mean that Islam emerged from Arabia as said in the Islamic tradition Polytheism was declining because we find so many rock inscriptions in Arabia from the 4th century to 7th century CE telling us about monotheist Christian sects in Arabia that were heretical sects which flourished in Arabia and also all Ummayad rulers did practice some form of Christianity and we don't find any mention of a new prophet the shahada also talks about Jesus, not a prophet named Muhammad and so does the Quran sure I know the Ummayad rulers don't use crosses after Muawiyah but that doesn't mean that they were Muslims in that case we would find 2 different types of Muhammad's.
👍I hope you will like this video about Roman Marriages and other similar relationships! Please, don't be afraid to comment or voice any questions as I love interacting with you my dear viewers and I will try to respond as quickly as possible to you. Also, please like, subscribe & push the bell icon as those actions do help this channel to grow! 👍
Hello, cultured Jinni how are i was curious about some things related to Islam based on what you said about the trade routes through the mountains and the mention of Jeddah in Thamudic inscriptions sure a small city or a town could have existed before 690 CE but what we can say is that the Islamic traditional narrative on Mecca is wrong because based on archaeological evidence we know that most of Arabia from 300 CE to 600 CE was going to through a Christian revolution and polytheism was gradually declining in Arabia and I doubt Mecca was a big trading city in all of Arabia with 360 idol gods it was just like Taif or Yathrib. We know that a masjid was built by Abdal Malik in 698 CE that would known as the forbidden masjid what we can say is that before 690 CE in Mecca, there was no shrine called Kaaba with 360 Idols it was just a small town or city with many houses and buildings and the inhabitants were mainly heretical Christian sects. Mecca is as old as Taif or Jeddah.
I do think that Mecca is still among the stronger things to be able to exist according to the classical historic narrative (a trade city in the middle of the hijaaz), and sure polytheism was probably declining even before Islam, but that does not mean that it could not have been still a significant part of society and Mecca was at least some sort of local center for this, probably mixed with a lot of Abrahamic groups there too. The Ka'ba seems also similar to older pre-islamic practices found further north and south of Mecca too, so it is not out of what would be expected.
@@theculturedjinni To me it seems that Polytheism in Hejaz probably declined and most of the inhabitants of Hejaz were heretical Christians, Zoroastrians, and Mandeans and possibly followed other religions what happened was that when the Abbasids came to power they created this whole religion of Islam as we know it today about a Prophet named Muhammad who is born in a big city that is the centre of the world and how he will be the last and final prophet there was a great debate on where should this big city be some said it should be in Petra others said it should be Jeruslam others said it should be near Baghdad and others were like it should be Mecca in Hijaz this all happend in the Abbasids era and after many years of argueing they all agreed it should be Mecca and what they did was they were creating a new religion with a new prophet so they wanted to put greater emphasis on their new religion so what they did was when they were creating the biography of this new prophet they were decided to add Nabatean gods and deities and shrines in this big city so to portay their prophet as a saviour for mankind who is born in this city and then he recieves devine revalations and becomes a prophet of God and liberates this city from idol worship they did this to explain the Quranic corpus and why Mecca was important for their new religion.
@@DomainofKnowlegdia We do know that Islam at least existed in somewhat of recognizable form in the middle of the Umayyad period (turn of 7-8th century), as we even have textual manuscripts of the quran and even the earliest evidence of hadiths & sira by then so Islam must have at least appeared before then and cannot have been invented during the abbasids. Furthermore, we actually do not know how strongly polytheism still existed in the hijaz but we do know that it still existed the peninsula by the time of Mohammed as in the southern parts of Yemen and Oman we know that despite a strong presence of Christians & jews there still existed large parts of the population that believed in the old south arabian gods and it would not surprise me if it was the same or even more the case in the Hijaz.
@@theculturedjinni The seerah, Quranic corpus and the hadiths were not the same as we know them today during the middle of the Ummayad period Quranic corpus was already compiled in Arabic by Abdal Malik who changed the language to Arabic from Syriac Aramaic. The Quranic corpus was originally in Syriac Aramaic but later Abdal Malik compiled it and changed the language into Arabic from its original language what can say about the original Quranic corpus is that it was collection of myths and legends from the Syriac church of east that later became the Quranic corpus as we know it today. The Seerah was finalized in the Abbasid period since it borrows material from other middle eastern religion of its time we can say that the entire biography of prophet Muhammad is a later Abbasid invention and the hadiths are orall narations which predate Islam.
@@theculturedjinni Even if we accept that some form of polytheism did exist in Hejaz it doesn't mean that Islam emerged from Arabia as said in the Islamic tradition Polytheism was declining because we find so many rock inscriptions in Arabia from the 4th century to 7th century CE telling us about monotheist Christian sects in Arabia that were heretical sects which flourished in Arabia and also all Ummayad rulers did practice some form of Christianity and we don't find any mention of a new prophet the shahada also talks about Jesus, not a prophet named Muhammad and so does the Quran sure I know the Ummayad rulers don't use crosses after Muawiyah but that doesn't mean that they were Muslims in that case we would find 2 different types of Muhammad's.
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