Who has the best claim to the title of Roman Emperor?
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- Опубліковано 17 жов 2019
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Thanks to all the channels that participated:
Stefan Milo:
/ @stefanmilo
Al Muqaddimah:
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M. Laser History:
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Jack Rackham:
/ @jackrackam
A Long, Long Time Ago:
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This is Barris:
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History & Headlines:
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The Cynical Historian:
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Fiveable:
/ @thinkfiveable
Tom Richey:
/ tomforamerica
House of History:
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Hikma History:
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History's Who Yesterday's Nation:
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Who Would Be Tsar of Russia?
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Intro music: "Lord of the Land" by Kevin MacLeod and licensed under Creative Commons Attribution license 4.0. Available from incompetech.com
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In the UK, Francois Graftieaux wants the DNA of the Queen because he claims that his father is a illegitimate child of Edward VIII. Can you do a video on that?
THE OTTOMANS DESTROYED BYZANTIUM, THEY HAVE NO CLAIM
King Felipe looks like the son of Tom Hanks and Mel Gibson. Does that count?
Donald Trump. MAGA 2020
so when you say Karl von Habsbrug the von is pronounced fon because V sunds like F i german
The historically correct answer is the guy with the largest army.
That would be King Felipe
so Donald Trump
@@jerrydickerson1111 Xi Jinping*
@@FabiWann Well technically, but the state of Russia has both the largest of the armies, and highest military power rating. In terms of nations. but in terms of monarchs, you are correct, King Felipe
@@Darren67299 does largest mean numbers or effectiveness? Because if it means the latter (and it does), Xi is a child compared to Trump.
Surely the answer is: whoever can pay the Praetorian Guard the most money.
What evil have I done?
Ave, Emperor Jeff Bezos!
@@kiharapata LOLOL who says that nero or caligula ? or was it another one....oh maybe it was the dick who bought the throne? after the prats auctioned it -.....didius julianus or someshit?
@@420judaspriest I think the Praetorian Guard killed the Emperor for being cheap and put the throne up for sale. Some Noble bought it for like 15 minutes. Some General said 'I don't think so' and marched in and took power. The Noble who thought he could buy power last words were "What evil have I done?" because he said he didn't kill anybody or did anything that bad. The General didn't feel he could let the guy live so the seemingly opportunistic Noble was executed. Don't remember the names of the principals but they were not that well recognized. Not "history famous" like the guys you mentioned.
Guilherme Pata being rich
King Felipes lineage is so deep he essentially has a claim as ruler for almost the entirety of Europe regardless of his Roman claim
Es verdad, incluso podría reclamar la corona inglesa por haber sido Felipe 2 rey de Inglaterra
What could be more Roman than having a claim on all of Europe
Are you sure about that claim?
The gypsy King!😊
that would not only make him the rightful roman emperor, but an emperor of something even greater of rome! the emperor of europe!
It's kinda crazy how the Spanish Crown has claims to some of the most historical kingdoms and empires ever like Holy Roman Empire through Austria, Kingdom of Naples and Sicily, Kingdom of Jerusalem, Ancient Rome and although not supported by legitimists you could even make a case for the former Kingdom of France. As a descendant of Spaniards sometimes I forget how powerful the Kingdom of Spain was during different points of history.
Lately i have being revising and confirming that in fact the Spanish Empire has been one of the most influential European Empires post Rome. Due to the time period it lasted, the geographical limits, the economical power that lasted even after its political and military power had diminished, and its cultural, and (believe it or not) scientific contributions. It had come to my attention based on recent though i had on the importance of the Spaniard currency during centuries, the role of Spain in global trade and culture. The fact that Spain had one of the most interesting approaches to human rights prior to the modern era is remarkable as well as the importance of spaniard universities up to the nineteenth century.
Absolutely 💯, but there is a thing called Black Legend of Spain, started when other countries couldn't win on the battlefield so they started a propaganda campaign, which revived every time that was necessary for those other countries' interests. ( I like your summary a lot, I think I'm gonna borrow it 😉)
@@henryytbthe Roman Empire and Spanish Empire are the two Greatests
@@fernandogarcia3957 Those people who believe and promote that have fallen asleep in all history classes.
@@nicolasrodriguezmartinez4613 There is a reason for the phrase: Spain, the third Rome.
Nobody expects the Spanish legitimacy.
Easily best comment here.
underrated
just because is Spain?
@@astrofabio68 It's a reference to some pretty awesome comedy.
🤣
One more proof King Felipe have the best claim: Spain can't get a century without Civil War, nothing more Roman Empire than this
True.
That sounds pretty spanish, and roman
A sad and beautiful truth at the same time.
He doesn't have the best claim. Ferd and Issy never payed Andrew for his Byzantine claims, thus they never actually bought them off from him.
But if Roman blood only runs in the veins of Italians
What people seem to forget about is in Rome. The title of emperor or imperator was not given based on blood connection. But was actually given based on wealth, influence, and military power.
Of those introduced in the video, again the King of Spain is the one who could have had all those resources. Don't worry, it's only a an entertaining exercise, but it doesn't hurt anyone, I think, to acknowledge the fact that the rightful heir is His Majesty the King Felipe VI of Spain (and many other territories by tradition and officially...)
Also there hasn't been an Roman Empire for over 1500 years. People over here arguing about an artificial linage to a non-existent empire like it matters.
@@andyaustin3323Correction: 500 years and good joke.
Yeah only during periods like the crisis of the third century
THANK YOU SIR
It should totally be King Felipe VI, as he has Habsburg ancestry from his father's Spanish side, and Charlemagne's Frankish blood from the other side, as he is part of the House of Bourbon. Also, he is part of the Capetian dynasty, the oldest royal line in Europe. He also has a relation to the Greek throne through his mother's side, which used to be the heartlands of the Byzantines.
What Capetian dynasty please ?
@@twanabaiz9516 The house of Bourbon is a branch of the House of Capet that ruled France for almost all of its post-Frankish monarchical history. The house of Capet is also a branch of the Robertians, the line that Charlemagne belonged to. The main Capet branch ruled France until the late 1200s, the Valois branch of the Capetians ruled until 1589, and the the Bourbons ruled France until the French Revolution. After the war of Spanish Succesuon, the Spanish throne was also occupied by a Bourbon until today. Therefore, he can trace his heritage back through the Capets to Charlemagne.
The holy roman empire has nothing to do with Rome, neither do the Capetians, nor the Carolingians.
@@EvilSmonker Some people considered it the heir to Rome, even though it really isn;t, and, and Charlemagne was the first Holy Roman Emperor, and he was a Carolingian
@@avyay9818 I realize that some people think they are, but I believe there is little reason to think that besides a western european centric world view that discounts the eastern roman empire’s legitimacy.
What if the true Roman Emperor were the friends we made along the way?
Is that a one piece reference?
@@nameless5646 Not sure, but its a meme that the true successor to Rome is 'the friends we make along the way' or an obscure country or person.
Flynn Tom 😂
Caesar would kill them all
@@marcospedroza7184 Pirates?
By blood: Russia
By conquest: Ottoman
By inheritance: Spain
And, which is the most important matter, the LEGAL right. Felipe is the legal heir, the one who could show official and historical treatrises, documents and testaments of his ancestors, being them righteous, properly crowned holy roman emperors by popes.
MrSludov Felipe is from the bourbon house not the Habsburg which can not really give him a claim. The Russians maybe by the house of Ivan but not romonavs the ottomans maybe because they married lines of Byzantine princesses and they also had Constantinople which was known as the “pure Rome” and the Habsburg yes because the owned Roman lands even that doesn’t really give them a claim. Napoleon no no no. So really it’s just the ottomans and Habsburg and maybe the Russians.
@@warman8230 Salah, the claim of Felipe would be suported in the fact that the the last Byzantine emperor LEGALY passed the title in his testament to Fernando and Isabel of Spain.
Conquest is all the Romans respected.
@@MrSludov philippe the sixth of Spain will go straight to hell due to bull bullfighting practice!!!
King Felipe's claim is definitely the only legitimate one as far as I'm concerned, I mean first of all since he can trace his lineage so far back, he legitimately has the blood of Austrian and Russian royalty in his veins as well so he could easily claim the Habsurbg and Romanov claims for himself anyway. But more importantly, Romans generally did not care all that much about bloodline, they cared about the law which is why plenty of Roman emperors were not related in any way to the previous emperor and they cared about military might which is why some Roman generals could just straight up take the throne for themselves if the army followed them. Felipe has the legal will of the last Roman Emperor and he's the only one on the list with an army.
But all of that being said Napoleon definitely has the most entertaining claim.
12:43 love that you included the up-and-coming and truly charming, Stephan Milo!
I mean to be fair, the Romans themselves would probably argue who would be Emperor and each man would eventually build his own faction of sorts.
10th Roman Civil War? Confirm?
They would argue who would be emperor and then form their own factions before the pretorian guard kills everybody and choses a third candidate nobody thought about.
@@fristnamelastname5549 10th? More like the 150th
@Jan Sitkowski well the only remnants of the senate would be the Italian legislature, so i guess the ball is in their court now.
@Jan Sitkowski well it certainly resembles an empire in collapse anyway
Well, Romanov is a 97 year old artist, and his oldest son is an accountant in the SF bay area. The idea of the Emperor of Rome being an accountant in California just tickles the shit out of me.
MashPatayta I love this comment lol
Reminds me of Emperor Norton.
a descendant of the emperor of rome is an accountant, incredible lmao
Help Me isn’t it Biggus Dickus?
If he's an accountant in the economic shithole that is California i'm sure he's fit for the job, at least he knows a lot about inflation
I thoroughly enjoyed this. Thank you.
Extremely interesting! Thank you!
I think there is only one way to decide this - the Roman way: The claimants have to fight it out in a civil war.
I am pretty sure that felipe wild have quite the high ground over his rivals😅
You wanna put the spanish one in a civil war dispute? Are you sure that would be fair with the other contenders?
*world war.
The Habsburgs would win simply by marrying everyone and putting their kids in the will.
@@GlobalWarmingSkeptic Which kid? Now that's the question!
By Roman tradition the Emperor is the one who has the largest army. Phillip VI is the only one who is commander in chief of an actual army of an actual country.
All he needs to do now is adopt Jean-Christophe Napoleon and the Western Roman Empire is back in business.
Chris Mullen Then just invade some contries (Portugal, Andorra Monaco and Belgium are easy) and would control like half of all that the western roman empire ever had
@@Seneka51 Jean-Christophe Napoléon will never be a child of Felipe nor will ever represent Spain nor will ever a puppet of anyone, let alone Felipe. He is French. He is a descendant of Napoléon. How dare you?
Bro learn to take comments that are somewhat offensive to you
Did you just called Felipe... Phillip?
I also opt for the King of Spain. In fact Spain is the real and legal heir to the Roman Empire, it was something it had and still has. Even the Spanish empire was also known as the transcontinental Roman empire, and many of the Roman emperors like Marcus Aurelius or Trajan were either Hispanic or of Hispanic origin. In Ancient Rome, the most beloved land in the entire empire after the Italic peninsula was Hispania, it even had its own senate (SPQH)
When you also know that he has the title of King of Jerusalem too you will be amazed jajajajajaja KING OF JERUSALEM (crusaders)
Wasn't Charlemagne the successor of Rome. Tht makes france
@@wingedhussar1453 The king of Spain is a descendant of Charlemagne
@marie7622 I mean a random bloke in france now could be descend of Charlemagne
Trajan was from an Italian family from Umbria. Marcus Aurelius was born in Italy to an Italian family as well. Maybe Hadrian and definitely Theodosius are Spanish. But the other two are not.
Thank you for such a comprehensive and easily followed time line for the possible geneologies.
**Sees the name Romanov on the screen**
Lenin in his grave: God damnit, we missed some
Historic Science, Dammit!
You mean in the mausoleum?
*Lenin is his display case :-)
how many lennins are still there?
@@Aspiring_public_accountant
Not nearly enough.
This is the kind of argument that can only be resolved with violence.
Magnificent
Everyone hire a gladiator
Who can be the conqueror
It has been resolved. We plebes would never know. It doesn't concern us.
Paul Maupin spoken like a true roman emperor
This was a GREAT video!
Interesting how three of those lines were cut by the WW1. Trully shows you how much the map of the world changed by this conflict.
I actually have a member of the Habsburg family in my school.
Austria is strange, you'll meet the president in the subway and the grand grand son of the former Kaiser at school.
Marry her AND YOUR CHILDREN IS GOING TO BE THE ROMAN EMPEROR
@@elpibelol5005 not even close
Varangian Gaming if you kill the right people hell yeah
Ferdinand Zvonimir?
Well tecnically almost every european is descendant of some nobility, so you can genocide your way into most thrones.
I think it would be whoever gets the largest army to Rome
Only one is capable of raising one 🤷♂️
@@SacchieILU Turkey France or Russia could all do that.
@@HVLLOWS1999 Turkey, France, and Russia are not led by the Osmans, Bonapartists, or Romanovs.
@@SacchieILU Spain aint go no big army anymore, Italy's army is stronger.
@@SacchieILU Yeah? Which one? The monarchy in Spain is really weak, so Felipe certainly can't...
I had worked to be done but UA-cam recommend this video so in that sense I have to/ need to watch this.
Well that was fun!!!
King Felipe VI hands down.
Rome literally had a period where they put randoms as Emperors so that pretty much makes heirs and bloodlines unimportant and unnecessary. The legal document (his will) should be the only things that matters
Felipe VI has already the title of Byzantine emperor and king of Jerusalem too.
@Jason Sehorn nope
King Felipe VI makes a good contender because many Roman Emperors "chose" their heirs, sometimes those heirs were not only adopted, but not even related to them by blood. Thus, the legal argument goes onto him.
Not only that, but also by blood on both sides due to their relation to Bourbon, Habsburgs, charlemagne and even the Rurikids
Sure your words are true but not when you are getting conquered.
That's why I'm going with the Ottomans candidate
@@napolien1310 I agree. I was simply pointing out that the Legal course of it does infact go with the Spanish. But the last Qaiser-e-Rum were the Ottomans. Therefore I also support them.
@@khudaidadkhan1178 oh ok
@@napolien1310 But... Ottoman empire is also broke apart
@Fiveable - why do you say Irene’s line but then choose Dundar Ali Osman? Wouldn’t “Irene’s line” go to the Russian Romanovs? It is confusing what Fiveable says…? @ 20:53
Felipe VI of Spain.
He is perfectly heir to Fernando and Isabel, he is directly descended from them. The last Habsburg of Spain, Carlos II died without issue and left the throne of Spain, in his will, to his great-nephew Felipe de Borbon, descendant (grandson) of his sister Teresa of Habsburg, wife of the King of France, the future Felipe V. from Spain. The other claimant who claimed the throne once Philip had already been proclaimed and was King of Spain, was Carlos of Habsburg who was also a great-nephew of Charles II, grandson of another sister, but had not been named heir by the last Habsburg King of Spain.
Let's be real. King Felipe is the only one that looks good with a traditional roman toga
Hahaha
He looks exactly like a Roman sculpture
Jean-Christophe looks æons more classically ‘Roman’ than the eh’Spaneesh guy. No competition.
@@Floral_Green He Kinda resembles Constantine
@Timothy Callanan Naww
I'm usually pro blood, but how can one argue that bloodline matters when Rome's previous emperors weren't even related? I vote for law and order, and so I go with the Spanish claim.
but rome's in italy though, not spain. the italian guy should get it (rome is in italy)
@@ausore9832 that’s not how it works
@@user-hl6ls8sv4t yeah it is
@@ausore9832 no
@@user-hl6ls8sv4t ye
It seems like we’ve decided on the Spanish claim. Now on to the important stuff, like how do we bring forward the Neo-Roman Empire?
If Spain somehow manages to overshadow France and Germany in the EU, I think that would be a neo-roman empire
True, we all agree on Felipe VI, but... how do we bring back the Roman Empire? Do we proceed to arrange a referendum in Rome? Come on folks, bring up some ideas! Looking forward to the Neo-Roman Empire.
@@user-yi3cv3ep5j yes I’ve come to the conclusion that the only legitimate successor has to come through the Holy Roman Catholic Church
We already has the European Union, while there is no office title "Leader of European Union" but there is several President position Spanish King can eligible to be in. So ironically it will be the Holy Roman Empire style of government again, but this time with the proper Roman Emperor as the head of state
just get the pope to crown him or something
Another interesting fact, the brother of the last byzantine emperor technically inherited his brothers title, and when he died he left his title to the "Monarch of Spain"
Let's decide this the Roman way: civil war.
UUH I LOVE THIS PART!
Becomes Emperors*
>Get shanked by the praetorioan guard and their commander replaces you
its the 21st century, either 1v1 in a game, a rap battle or a dance battle
japanese shord fights are also acceptable
i would pay to see any of those
Don't forget flat out assassination.
Lol China probably had 20x more civil wars I think at one point they had a civil war every time an emperor died
Not only does King Felipe of Spain has the best claim, he totally nails the Roman Emperor look
Right! The Romans loved law. Felipe would make the best statue and I think he has the best army in Europe. Plus he speaks a Latin language.
@@oldtimetinfoilhatwearer Don't forget that Roman's could and did select heirs not of their blood. If this was ancient Rome, I could walk out on the street grab a kid, and with the proper paperwork, declare them my heir. So Felipe wins in blood, documents, and Roman style.
Gabe Morehouse best army in europe ? Someone doesn’t know about France, UK, Turkey, Germany and Italy. These are the countries with a better military than Spain currently.
+chris. Felipe does not have the best claim of Roman Emperor. And, he does not secure The Roman Emperor look. He does not even look like a Roman Emperor for you to claim this.
@@oldtimetinfoilhatwearer Wrong! The Romans loved law that they created themselves. Felipe would not make the best statue. He does not have a good army in Europe nor The World nor existence. Plus, Jean-Christophe Napoléon speaks a Latin Language, too. The Latin Language spoken by Jean-Christophe Napoléon is named, French.
It was crazily interesting and I had a lot of fun hearing all the arguments for every candidate. Personally I go with you, even though spanish royalty didn't claim it, it's true that the romans valued the legal standpoint, so the Spanish King, Felipe IV is a big candidate. Thank you for this video 🥰
Good, I'm glad you had the good sense to look at it from the legal Roman view. I 100% agree
Jean-Christophe Napoléon married a Habsburg today, he really wants that Roman Emperor title lol.
Did he? Haha
Yes, it is true, the countess Olympia von und zu Arco-Zinneberg, daughter of archduchess Maria-Beatrix von Habsburg and great-granddaughter of Karl I Habsburg, last emperor of Austria-Hungary
Jorge Vargas Caporali 😵😵😵
@@willmosse3684 Yes, he did so at the Invalides, where Napoléon is burried aha
The Brazilian Imperial House has Habsburg blood from D. Leopoldina, what means that IF every claimer of the Roman Emperor Title die then the claimer of the Brazilian Throne would be also the claimer of the Roman Throne
Btw it will never happen
Friend: "Want to go to a bar tonight?"
Me: "Sorry, busy"
*binge watches videos on claims to former empires*
How cool, you have no social life and neglect your friends because you'd rather watch videos alone
@@dominikweber4305 you’re watching the video so you obviously think it’s interesting💀
@@nickweimer2118 yes but they're commenting on the weird attempt at a brag that just comes across as arrogant and sad, not the act of watching the video.
Thats literally what i did just now lmfao
@N Gaming Romulus wasn’t chosen by the senate?
Great discussion! Obviously a lot of different strong and legitimate opinions! I like the “rocking the beard” argument and the “good vs bad Roman” 👍🤣
can i introduce one last contender, one whose claim would predate the claims of any of the five listed in the video? i havent got a name for them, but the most senior heir of Lucius Tarquinius Superbus, the King of Rome until 509 BC when the republic was founded?
Don’t forget that King Felipe’s mom is princess Sofia of Greece (to many the descendants of the byzantines) and Denmark. She is a direct descendant of queen Victoria and also Russian royalty. Spain has by far the most direct line.
Through Russian royalty he’ll also have Constantine XI as an ancestor
-A Spanish
@@Annnto that’s not a fact it’s an opinion because there can be no way to objectively claim a legitimate emperor, I was mostly pointing out the obvious bias of a Spanish person proclaiming it. I’m pretty sure if you dive into genealogy as much there will be people with similar characteristics but they video didn’t. And by the way half of my family is originally from Spain just a couple generations back, so I have no reason to envy Spain. Think harder, thought is not a linear process it’s more like a web stop being so linear
@@MacetazzOpina still a fact? Dude she is still alive if i’m not wrong, and the op is talking about probability
Plus, the Spanish Royal Family also has roots from the Habsburg Dynasty and has had many marriages with Austrians later on. They're also from the Bourbon dynasty from France
I think the Spanish claim is the most legit: blood was not that important for Romans as the emperor often adopted their chosen next emperor
wrong, pride and blood are two most important things for romans, from all heirs spain is the one that deserves the least, if anyone should be emperor of rome although it is impossible because once something is dead you can revive it ever, it would be Italy or Great Britain.
@@paranoidman15 actually as I said adoption was a method largely used to choose your own heir in Rome, so blood wasn’t that important. If you look at the golden age of the empire, most of the emperors weren’t their predecessors sons.
@@giulia480 that's true, but the heirs are still chosen based on spiritual bond which is close to blood, and Spanish King was chosen to heir to Rome because of desperate attempt to gain their attention so that they would fight the Ottomans.
@@paranoidman15 Great britain more than spain? haha
Seriously? Spain inherited more from Rome than it is, and as far as I know there was never a Breton emperor, nor is a Latin language spoken there, I'm sure you are English x "d
even france would be a better candidate lol
Thanks, very fun😂
It’s weird how none of them chose king Philipe, hes obviously the most logical option
When you're so early that Romolus Augustus is still emperor
When you're so early that he is called Gaius Octavianus
..the last true emperor of Rome...Romulus..
When Romulus Augustus was deposed and retired, his insignia was sent to the Eastern Empire so technically the Empire was reunited. The Goths ruled Italy in the Eastern Empire's name, if not so much in actuality....
@@fluffytom82 I read Augustus and my mind jumped the gap 🤦♂️
@@fluffytom82 He's confusing the last Augustus for the first
Definitely King Felipe of Spain has the best claim. Can't beat a legal document that says: 'I'm leaving the Empire to you, have fun and best wishes'.
He also is a bourbon of the legitamist line, giving him another claim though as the French crown is derived from East Francia, itself splintered from Charlemagne's empire, as well as also being given the titles from Andreas Palailogos, fusing the titles of Roman Emperor to Phillipe VI, or Augustus Philippus Iohannes Paullus Alphonsus, or Felipe III and VIII in English.
His name is not on that paper
Obviously. We're talking about his lineage, not him as an individual.
@@marcmoris3590 But those titles are on the papers that left him as King of Spain, which also (surprise) also contains titles his lineage has, who knew that when you inherit something you can also give it to someone else to inherit?
no joke I seen him just a few days ago in Cordoba while I was drinking no idea what was hapenning until someone said that is the king of spain. Amazing how they rocked up like that with very little organisation. Guess it means I seen my first Roman emperor lol.
19:38 Man what the hell is that tie?? That's so cool! You can read his tie if he bores you with what he is talking about lmao.
when the court chaplain explains how he found a claim for you
The King of Spain
1) Has legal claim
2) Already a head of state
3) Member of Capetian family, oldest still royal line in Europe
4) Theodoric was given western imperial regalia from Eastern Emperor and Spain is the successor state of the Visigothic Kingdom meaning both titles east and west can be claimed by the Spanish crown
5) A Latin speaker
You forgot that what makes him more legitimate is that monarchs inherited it without force just given by the Nephew of the Emperor somehow inherited his uncle's title
Don't forget the beard. 😜
Romans never had Kings, Capet are French - French are regarded as completely foreign people in Europe whom Justinian wanted to exterminate
@@WizavPRO As if you never heard the Roman kingdom
@@WizavPROSpanish you mean he dint said the french
I was rooting for Spain the entire time and was getting a little disappointed when no one was showing Spain love, glad you were big brain there.
Same fam... same.
... and he would look best in the crown and robes.
Same here.
I know right !!!
Roman Emperors chose their successors so imo Spain makes most sense.
I like your answer 😊
0:37 Lumber tycoon 2 caught me off guard
Turkish guy: *picks Ottoman claimant*
French guy: *picks Bonaparte claimant*
Really the first guy was onto something when he proposed Imperator Dwayne, of the House Rock
Think of it....Dwane The Scorpion Emperor!
Added bonus: if the Rock becomes the Roman Emperor, we get Wrestlemania at the Colosseum
Would that mean that any school sponsored by the Imperator would be... a School of Rock?
@@skoshman1 Yes. In fact he would employ Jack Black as whatever the Roman equivalent of Education Secretary was
Go forth Dwayne, son of John, Head of your house of Rock, and claim your throne.
oh man, I went through this whole video thinking "I think it should be the spanish, legally, but NO ONE seems to agree with me" but THEN! vindication!
My exact feeling throughout the video.
Agreed. If Julius can name Augustus his adopted son and heir in his will and Augustus adopt his heir Tiberius, then Spain has all the legitimacy it needs. Blood doesn't matter; the will of the emperor matters.
I was feeling the same! LMAO
me 4
Super fun watching this, hearing the story of succession and the different opinions brought on in this video! I picked Felipe (since I wanted to respect the Byzantines claim and will) and was shocked noone picked it, but happier still to be vindicated in the end by you :)
The usuper taking the title argument is also a good argument, but I just can't in good faith call the Ottoman claim legitimate since it all was a shift away from things that I could call Roman (culturally, linguistically, religiously). It would definitely be my second pick though.
I like how the HRE enthusiast got immediately followed by the HRE Skeptic 😂.
I'm honestly shocked that none of those UA-camrs brought up the Spanish Claim. I was ready to start yelling at my computer screen until you finally came in and spit some facts.
x2
Exactly
Hum CONQUERED BY NAPOLEON hum
Jack Rackham at least acknowledged the Spanish claim and said there's a pretty good argument for it, but dismissed it on the grounds that they never really pressed the claim.
i'd say it was the hapsburgs or maybe napoleon over the spanish claim but imo the spanish claim to the byzantine throne is the most legit one. i think that the byzantine empire was a bit too different from the roman empire to call it the roman empire. i also like the fact that the holy roman empire and spain are the two places that are actually roman catholcis
Technically speaking, the title has to go to Spain. Russia is no longer ruled by the Romanovs, nor is Turkey ruled by the Osmans or Germany by the Martels. But Spain is ruled by the same ancestry that inherited the Byzantine title.
Technically, if I'm reading well, that was the Hasburg dinasty the ones that inheritage the Holy Roman Empire, but they died by f*cking with cousins so now Spain have a French dinasty called Burbon
@Frx bx01 you didn't watch the video then. @usefulcharts already said there was a direct line from Philipe VI to the original transfer of the imperial title.
This means the king of spain inherits that title despite being a bourbon not a trastamara.
@Frx bx01 you do not understand what you are saying and I feel sorry for you.
@Frx bx01 It seems someone skipped the 2:25 mark here...
Technically it’s be Trump since the only country on earth closest to the absolute domination culturally, economically and militarily as Rome was in the ancient era is the United States in the modern era, therefore the most powerful person in Rome would be akin to the most powerful person in the USA...Trump so all Hail Trump Emperor of the USA
I also love how the bit chsays “Irene gouged out the eyes of her son but she is a badass.”
Ok I never considered the aspect of the Legal document and the aspect of law but this makes a lot of sense
Roman emperor: hey spanish dude, you are now the heir to the roman empire
Spanish dude: cool
Historians: this means nothing
I wanted to like, but you were at 69 likes.
Sorry little one
John Levin not anymore you can like now
Historians: "this means nothing"
Spanish dude's father: "Why won't you shut up?" =]
King Juan Carlos was the Holy Roman Emperor. Who has succeeded him?
Juan Carlos is the sperm donor of Prince William.
He's not the roman emperor, he's a very naughty boy!
What people are forgetting is that a Roman emperor could name their heir and it didn't have to be a genetic descendent... This goes to the Spanish King.
Edit: we agree nvm lol
@John Smith i know you are joking, but dont put Caesar in the same sentence as this soy boy called trump.
@John Smith Trump only commands the puny colonial legions, he doesn't count.
A.J. Bensinger I don’t think the Romans would like a Non Roman to lead them. Just saying.
@John Smith the consuls controlled the legions.
@@Mardek775 happened all the time...
Such fun. I was thinking Phillip too early on but only because of the Iberian Peninsula being originally part of the Empire. The others were very convincing.
WOW!! This was a fantastic and fascinating video! I can't believe I disagreed with every historian....until the very end. Everytime they made a point I kept saying "What! What about Roman law?" So, yeah, it would totally be the King of Spain!
And also is the King of Jerusalem 😂
Out of all these guys, Dwayne from the House of Rock makes the most sense
@Emperor Louis The Retard no he is samoan
@Emperor Louis The Retard He has the best claim to Samoas Cocoa and Coconut exports limited. He'll have the biggest fale in Samoa.
Emperor Dwayne the Rock of Johnson
“It doesn’t matter who the emperor is!”
or Tom Hanks!
Spain also makes sense because they went and did the Roman thing. Conquer the New World!
yes, the Spanish basically brought the roman law to America, and did what Rome did, they brought and funded institutions based on Rome to the new world.
Spain also followed in with many other traditions:
* Exploited the valuable minerals from their conquered lands, just like the Romans did to Spain
* Built an extravagant multicultural empire, THE superpower of their respective era, with a very self-serving mindset
* Had a long decline until a rising great power dealt the final blow (for Spain: Spanish-American War)
* Theocratic rule (Christian Rome, Christian Spain)
* Spain built up on the old Roman saying NON PLVS VLTRA (nothing beyond [the Pillars of Hercules/ Strait of Gibraltar]) and really had quite the extravagant PLVS VLTRA (their New World conquests)
@@LucarioBoricua El imperio Español fue el último imperio clásico, digno heredero del Romano en lo colonial como en lo militar y a mi parecer hicieron mas bien que mal en América. Dudo mucho que la palabra "Boricua" hubiese llegado hasta nuestros días bajo otros imperios coloniales de la época
@@OverthinkerYT PLUS ULTRA el sol no se ponia en el imperio español
@@LucarioBoricua
Stay mad
How did I predict the one with the tattoo was going to pick the Ottoman line?
THANK YOU, I was sitting here shivering as people went against the law, advocating for unlawful emperors, I was thinking all this time, when will they support Phillipe, someone must support Phillipe, have they forgotten Phillipe. THANK YOU for recognizing Philippe's claim on the roman empire even if it has no bearing on real life
Imagine thinking Charlemagne was a legitimate Roman Emperor
This post was made by Byzantine gang
Me dabbing with my brainpower on those Germcucks larping as Romans
My thoughts exactly. There’s no connection between the Western Roman Empire and the Holy Roman Empire, so I don’t know why they started with Augustus.
Imagine having a title like Basileus
This post was made from the Charlemagne Gang
EJO Imagine thinking the HRE was Holy, Roman, or an Empire
This post was made by Byzantine gang
Imagine thinking that Spain and Russia are the heirs to Byzantium.
This post was made by Ottoman Gang
If Crusader Kings II has taught me anything, neither of them has pressed their claims appropriately by war, hence none of them have inherited anything. Now, somebody will have to hold 80% of the de jure territory, have two kingdom-level titles, be really pious and pay 600 bucks to somebody not specified in order to create the title. Then again, since the Roman Empire is now merely a titular empire with no de jure demesne, he would have to make use of the corresponding decision to found it, which requires massive prestige and tons of duchies to be controlled. I'd be curious if they'd choose to mend the schism or restore hellenism, though.
If I am right, turkish culture changes the name of country so Ottoman Empire could have been in fact Byzantine Empire, but claim of any title lasts only to grandchildren of current ruler, so the head of Ottoman dynasty have no claim to it. We can only wait for another crusade which could restore the Latin Empire.
Well, King Felipe has 26 kingdom level titles, holds 8 duchies and 1 arcduchy and probably has tons of prestige (although his marriage to a commoner would have cost him a buttload of prestige), so he is the best candidate!
that game. . .is amazing lmao omg, I once caught myself saying " crap I'm my wife now " lmao that games makes you say the craziest shit " how do I kill my son, I need him dead " XD good times. . . good times
@@jakubbezimienia6449 The turks conqured byzantine so no not fit for rome emperor title if were enemies of it
glitterhoof is the best candidate
It's so obvious an even with that, you were the only one who said the correct answer
I came back to this for about the third time because of a really pedantic argument with a friend, but I'd like to point out that a Spaniard is as Roman as Emperor Trajan, so we have that going for us as well.
I feel the Spanish have a pretty good claim. It often happened throughout Roman history that the heir was adopted or chosen. And since the Spanish monarchy are the only ones to survive to today, I feel they have spirit of the Romans.
Also they are descended from Charlemagne, albeit through a female line, so they have a claim even if you think the HRE was the successor to Rome, because the mother of the first count of hapsburg was a direct descendant of Charlamagne and a hapsburg married into the Bourbon family, which still rules Spain.
They've also still got decently roman looking architecture.
Yeah no thanks they tried with France and they failed miserably go for Bonaparte
@@crframe738 most Europeans are descended from Charlemagne
Also one of the best Roman Emperors, Trajan, was born in a city called Italica close to modern day Seville, so it wouldn't be that strange to have a spanish roman emperor
You sir, are a genius. I've never seen such a well reasoned history video on UA-cam before.
I found the arguments pointing to the Romanovs or Habsburgs to be "reasonable enough" I guess. But the moment I saw on your chart that King Felipe was the legal heir of the Byzantine throne, that was clearly the most important argument - the legal one. Because as you so astutely pointed out, Rome was a society that held the Law in high regard. Insta sub and notification squad!
The Roman Empire was also a meritocracy, it never managed to establish a lasting dynasty and the reason why they never did, is because Rome was totally against the idea of a monarch, that was the reason for the assassination of Caesar and the civil was
So an Emperor based on birth right is against the very foundation of the Roman traditions
You two missed the point.
Did the Emperor of Rome (including Byzantine) have the legal authority to name their successor? The answer is yes. Whether this was respected after their death is entirely a different matter.
@@Hemuro4ever this is in effect a moot point if then the successor is removed at will.
It's like saying you can make a will but then when they read it don't expect it to be carried out. Well then it is pretty pointless.
I am sure you can always make a will, the problem is if it is respected
The emperors of Rome actually didn't that's why they tried to work around the issue by naming co-emperors. That didn't work. In the Easter Roman Empire it finally worked because the state had degenerated into a monarchical structure were the senate had no real value.
That's in fact one of the main differences between the Western and the Eastern parts of the Empire
@@canemcave Right. Because no two Roman Emperors where from the same family. It's like the Papacy, where no ruler has ever left their charge to a family member!
@@raysc0089 they have tried but in those cases, with poor results. Some people always try to build absolute monarchies based on inheritance. It's a way to create hierarchies, privileges and aristocracies.
Remember that princeps meant first, supposedly first among equals. if it's first it's not equal. But in the Roman Empire there was always a counterbalancing force.
This is the form of government the Republic of Venice adopted and it's the form that we have adopted.
I see a worrying trend today with the feminist agenda based on humans are equal but some humans are more equal than others or in other words female first.
Beardedness is too rarely invoked in dynastic disputes
If we are going with the Spanish Claim it’s also important to remember that Spanish Kings also descended from Karl V of Austria/HRE , linking the two empires together in Felipe’s Claim
I think "Roman Empire" is something we couldn't really go with, I think you would have to differentiate between western and eastern roman Empire.
The HRE existed besides the Byzantine (eastern roman empire) so if we accept their claim to the roman empire title it would only be that of west Rome
Following the arguments for the Spanish those would be the Eastern Roman Empire
So I think we would have a eastern roman empire in Spain and a western roman empire in Austria for maximum confusion.
Whatever I say will turn into heated debate full of anger and hate - but truth is, Spaniards are Visigoths who settled from North to South - Favila, Pelayo, Mauregato are Visigoths and modern Spaniards are completely unrelated to Roman world just like French or Italians (who are also French). Keep in mind that any relation to Germanic peoples and race makes you automatically disqualified
@@WizavPRO nonsense. Many of the late western roman emperors had germanic or otherwise "non-roman" descent. Even earlier in fact, Aurelian (restitutor orbis) for example wasn't even born in roman territory.
Carlos 5 was also spanish king
Nope, if the last byzantine emperor had a will to pass the throne to Isabella and Ferdinand of Aragon. their grandson Charles 5 Hapsburg's line is the better one. so, it should pass to Karl Hapsburg. because it was the French who set up a king in Spain after wars of Spanish succession. and he is of the bourbon dynasty. The current king of Spain is also of the bourbon clan. and coming to Russia the blood line of Byzantines has already faded away. As many times the throne was passed to others other than the dynastic rulers hereditary line. it is not a good idea. Through the imperial families it should be a Hapsburg.
Let's be real the only one there that looks like an actual emperor is the King of Spain. He be lookin' like 2020s Trajan
Maybe because trajan was from Spain
@@danielrojas-db9nq and Hadrian too.
i look almost exactly like Caracalla
Rather Hadrian or Marcus Aurelius. Trajan didn't wear beard. Ask to Mary Beard.
Did actual emperors look like actual emperors, though?
Was Prince RomAnov once a guest on the Jack Benny radio show?
In a strange way, the Roman Empire lives on with king felipe
"and as we all know the best roman emperors were the one's with beards"
*Laughs in Trajan*
Trajan born in...
Nero....
*Laughs in Augustus*
Caracalla
Who was one of the Hispanic (as in, comming from the province of Hispania) emperors. Checkmate.
This debate would have resulted in a massive war of succession back in the day.
Why not today
@@matheustroan7224 Because there is no roman empire anymore?
@@juanausensi499 But there could be if we really tried
@@Omar-wr2vk I don't think we really want it...
@@juanausensi499
:)
U sure ?
Simeon II of Bulgaria is the last person to hold the title caesar. The bulgarian tsardom was abolished in 1946, making him the last monarch to hold a title derived from "Caesar".
can we follow the blood descendants of a roman emperor today? im searching this topic but cant find an answer
I'm not sure if this answers your question, but I think Chalemagne is descended from one of the emperor Constantines times via the female lines. My notes are packed away so I can't give you specifics now.
Okay, here's my opinion (even though I'm sure no one cares): First, Charlemagne was absolutely not the emperor of Rome, Rome still existed in the form of what we now call the Byzantine Empire. Then with the conquest of Constantinople in 1453, I can understand the Russian and Ottoman claims, but I really think the Spanish claim is probably more valid. After all, if Constantine XI said that the King and Queen of Spain should inherit their titles, which to me says that he was essentially selecting them as their heirs. If you ask me, that's much more valid than a simple bloodline connection.
Edit: Okay, I think the two of us are actually in complete agreement on this
KhAnubis i love your Channel
😉
...'Rome still existed as.....no...Rome was gone and now its Byzantine....kinda like but it ain't..
Sorry... I clearly misunderstood; you seem to be implying that a woman - a woman of all things - could be roman emperor. Constantine VI was meant to be emperor, but if Irene took his byzantine candidacy it's Charlemagne 2020!
Jokes obviously
@@jayasuryangoral-maanyan3901it's believed that at a few times there where women who were sole emperors in all but name...we have coins of them...
Amazing how impartial these historians are, picking their own countries
EXACLTY my thought
LOL, it's just a thought exercise!
*All statements from historians should be taken with a grain of salt*
Very true, upsets me to see it but I think worldview plays a bigger role than cultural bias when making this opinion, both of which (influences) are backed by the same decision.
@@rashidsabri7319 due to it's nature, history is always biased towards someone .
Giorgia Meloni because she’s
" Italian " ( though she’s technically a German and Italy has been colonized for more than 1000 years by Germany
we should get all 5 of them to duke it out in the colliseum for the title
Thousands of years later and rome is still relevant. Even just the title has some meaning
You don't have to look at who should hold the title to find ways Rome is still relevant. From the language we speak to the religion that whether we like it or not shaped much of our culture, the legacy of Rome is baked into a lot of our lives.
@@86soup 2 is plural
@@86soup Yes Rome has has existed for thousands of years....
600 years* considering the Eastern Empire
Also Romans: "Stop quoting laws to those of us with swords"
(Alledgedly) spoken by Pompey during the siege of a fortress loyal to cesar in the civil war. Those were the words of a terroristic rebel/freedom fighter (depending on perspective).
Most romans were quite the opposite, they took pride in their legalism.
Patrician Romans , Like any othr corrupt aristocratic group through-out hstory , quotd Laws and ruLes whn-evr suitd thm, but wr fast quik to dsmis Laws ruLes whn-evr convnient
@@mikeottawa8158 did you overdose on stupid pills?
@@mikeottawa8158 Why do you hate vowels so much?
My heart wants to believe King Felipe is the rightful heir. But my head tells me it's Dundar ali Osman. After all, legalism is all well and good, but even in Roman law, possession is 9/10ths of the law. If a man murdered the previous emperor and was proclaimed the new emperor by the religious leaders and the military... he was emperor. There are many examples from Roman history of such usurpers.
The poll is gone what were the results?
Damn man this just came into my algorithm and I’m meant to go have dinner with my parents. Hope they understand..
I was thinking Spain the whole time, then was starting to feel dumb when everyone picked other people. Thanks for reinforcing my opinion at the end.
At the end the other people where the dumb ones
@@RADLadio there is no dumb answer
man those people were dumb. that one girl who called Irene basically a strong independent female "badass" for clawing her son's eyes out...
wtf
King Felipe VI of Spain actually has two claims to be Emperor of Rome. The first one is the line discussed in the video and the second is so obvious I am amazed the guy rocking an awesome beard did not mentioned it. Felipe VI's last name is Borbon. A noble house directly related to the French House of Bourbon. Prince Philippe, Duke Of Anjou in 1700 became Rey Felipe V de España. Since the Bourbons were the last Kings of France before the revolution that makes Felipe of Spain in line to be Roman emperor through the Charlemagne line.
That was my two cents.
You missed the fact that before the spanish throne was habsburg. And there were several wars between bourbone and habsurgs. War of succession in 1700 and the carlist wars during the 19th century.
So the spanish have claims to both sides following the logic that they have habsburg heritage and legal claim through heritage in the will of the last eastern emperor.
Also via the Bourbon’s parent family the Capets the Bourbons can trace their lineage to the Rurikids who did marry at least one member of a Byzantine ruling family and via the Habsburgs they can also trace their lineage to another Byzantine royal family. So technically the Bourbons and the Habsburgs have strong claims to the Roman throne. However the Russians can also trace their lineage to the Rurikids, like I mentioned above, who had married at least one Byzantine princess meaning that if a blood connection was required these three houses would have possibly the strongest claims to the defunct Roman throne. But a fair number of Roman emperors weren’t necessarily related to one another so if we base it on merit then the Bonapartes would be strong claimants to the throne.
@@herrlizuain70 The bourbons reigning in spain already had claims for the Habsburg titles of the spanish crown. I know it's confusing as hell but if I rememeber correctly Felipe V was related to the spanish crown by his grandma. So technically both claims could be valid.
But the Ottomans are no more.
House of Bourbon has no lineage to Charlemagne and the Carolingian dynasty. The French branch died out with Charles, Duke of Lower Lorraine.
Who intermarried with Carolingians were the saxon Liudolfings, with Otto I. being crowned first Holy Roman Emperor. After the death of the Lidudolfings came the Salian dynasty which had actual frankish origins like Charlemagne. The last dukes of Franconia were also vying for control of the HRE crown.
In fact it's me. Because my family tree shows I have direct descent from Augustus through his daughter Julia, the line runs down to Arnulf of Metz, to Charlemagne, to Edward I of England, down through the Howard Dukes of Norfolk, to my great-grandmother Florence Greenhill...
I agree with your statement