See how more or less ignition effects your clone saw. timing advance tested! For more products and services visit the website worksaws.com/collections/all
I went the clone route for some medium duty work to begin with. After almost spending too much money on more clones I came to my senses and bought a Husqvarna 545 MK II......it was all downhill from there......for the clones. Since getting the 545 I have been so impressed that I purchased a 572XP for the heavier work. You are right Joe.....good to learn on but not to depend on.
Hello Joe, I don't know about other people but personally I would rather enjoy 'no music' being played when you are talking/explaining. Other than that, you videos lately are getting better and better. Thank you so much for sharing the technical insights :)
Thank you for being honest! I am/will be trying lots of different things to make the videos better into the future. Will be keeping a close eye on the comments to see what people do and do not like.
I like messing around with clone saws and have nothing but clones. I can do this because I only really need one reliable 50ish cc saw to cut up my 4-5 cord of fire wood for the year. I have 1 joncutter 5800, it's 4 years old and has never acted up, I always get my wood cut up without issue with it. I have 1 supmix 6200, it's my back up for the joncutter, it seams fine but is still early days. The zenoah clones like the joncutter are pretty solid but not exciting saws. I'd just as soon have it as a 50cc name brand home owner saw. I also have a neo tech 892, I dont need this saw, I use it blocking up the easy to get to fire wood pile, it's ported and quite fast/fun for that. It's had issues tho, the decomp, the oiler, the gas /oil caps and the chain adjuster have all been swapped out, I also had to mod the control lever to get fast idle to work. I dont take the neo tech to the woods to cut wood but I dont think twice about taking my other saws.
I read on a forum somewhere a guy was buying these new for every logging job he did and when done the job gave them to the landowner for scrounging firewood after he’s gone. Seemed like a cool idea. He thought they were pretty great for the short term pro use he did and thought they’d be just fine retired with a homeowner.
My ms170 I cut .025 out, and it came alive! Night and day it cut better than my stock 120 husky and it has 6 more cc. I was surprised how much effect it had.
Really enjoy this series. I buck all my firewood with clone saws and thats how I test my mods, good cheap fun. I'd like to see you try the 49mm Big Bore for the G366. I've tried a couple, they ran fine but not sure if I gained. Thanks for the great content.
I don't use a saw to make a living , I just saw firewood and play with them, a couple of clone saws do me just fine a whole lot better than the pawn shop poulans I was using, for about the same cost .❤
As far as taking that little “E” clip off, I always start by using the spark plug side of the scrench by sliding it over the clip and pulling or pushing (whichever way is needed at the time. Then it’s “usually” a tiny thing to put my thumb over it to finish removing it. Reverse the process for installing 😊
Personally I prefer ALL OEM, That being said I wanted to get into porting, I could not justify practicing on a $1200.00 saw. I purchased a Farmertec saw, NWP crank, OEM bearings and seals. I had a OEM Walbro carb, so far it has been running well and cutting a lot of wood. I chose that route because all the OEM cylinders I looked at were $300.00, I would rather destroy a $150.00 cylinder than the OEM. Thank you for the video sir.
The neotec saws are built a bit better. I own a tree service and use the ms660 and 372xp. They are ok. I have 5 of each. They all break eventually. I'm usually changing top ends, sometimes carb diaphragms, and sometimes a case cracks by the bar studs.
Really cool vids. Keep on going. It is interesting for us that want to try. Thanx for being honest about the clones. It seems there is some out there that promotes chinesium saws with "OEM like" stickers.
I run both Holzfarma and Neo-tec clones. I cut fire wood fairly heavily, take bigger trees down for people from time to time, and do storm damage clean up for people here and there. 4-6 cord a year really doesn’t say much, but with the clones I have found it takes about two outings to find all the week spots for normal use. I usually find a hand full of stuff little things that need fixing. Big thing I have ran into on the clones with clone carbs is the metering lever hight is not right or needs a slight adjustment. I have seen this issue recently with OE home owner grade stuff like the new MS250 style as well. I will say from the couple clone saws I have blown up they were ported and I was probably at a head temp above 320/350F. Clone cranks are not as straight as OE across the board. other than that if you get a build you like for the application and you blow a clone up and you put OE crank, piston, and cylinder it and it works out well for building a tailor built saw for an application. They make great back up saws for the money I would definitely put two of them in the truck if I had to have 100% reliability. I save my real MS460 for stuff when it really matters. I have found that a good clone build coupled with an OE pro saw (pick your poison) makes for an effective fire wood situation where your saving the hours on the good stuff. My OE saw is down to a couple tanks a year. The back up saw is a ms260 hulz clone ported with a 25” bar spinning 3/8 full house. She is on her second season an I have been mean to it. But it got a full going through before I put it into hard service. The clone saws have to be flushed out, inspected, ran lightly for brake in, and inspected agin (clip and orient the wrist pin clips is a must). Loose fasteners, crappy starting rope, metering lever on the carb, and 50/50 on whether the oiler is worth even trying to mod for more oil. I would say the starter rope, carb, and the oiler have been some things that I have found more often than not on the clones to be non serviceable just get a OE part or something of better quality. For a stent the Hulz oilers that came on the saws were just garbage. If a clone was completely gone through, broke in, the quirky stuff fixed, lightly ported with a muffler mod, ran with fantastic 2 stroke oil I can see getting 250 hours of service out of one with little to no issue. Compare that agents an OE pro saw out the gate with the muffler mod and same quality oil. I can safely say that you will probably make the 250hour mark with little to no issue and the time that would have been used to work on the saw would be used making wood chips for money if you were running a business.
Hi Joe, thanks for the ignition timing testing you have done. This helps confirm what I have found with my G366. Just as you demonstrated , the stock ignition coils are weak on the G366. I don't think it's just a G366 issue because I have seen this issue with other clone saws. My G466 was another problem child for me. There are some aftermarket coils that work better overall. It will be interesting to see what your ignition timing will end up being when you get to raising the compression. As near as I can tell mine is probably about 3 to 4 degrees retarded ignition timing after raising the compression. My G366 is prone to recoil kick back if I don't back the timing off a bit. I use my G366 for firewood cutting, I'm not fond of the cord being ripped out of my hand. I'm looking forward to more on this saw build progression of yours!
Good video.just ordered one and plan to have a play to about where you are now. Perhaps some mild porting later I have a couple of stihls for backup. Thanks again for the videos
You can’t get any real professional use without you doing that work… bevels on the port window’s and piston edges… upgrades on the rubber and plastic seals and fuel line type stuff… my experience was 3-4 years and the lower quality is deteriorating badly.,, you can beat the bejesus out of one for the 4 years though!!! On a $300 dollar 372! $75 bucks per year investment for a pounder isn’t a bad investment!!! If you are doing 30 cord or firewood cutting?!? It’s fantastic! So they can definitely have a place in a small business!
I will never rely on Chinese products…I am neither a brand name fan nor an expert on small engines . However, ported is nice, but for my firewood business I run both Stihl and Husky…haven’t moved to 400/500i yet, I will wait a time first.
I've got the devil in the blue dress 666 and a 660 Pro carbon fiber w Meteor cylinder and Caber rings rings she's definitely got that high compression kick I've been running the blue saw for about 8 years and then carbon fiber for about 5 years They seem to run alongside my 660 Sthil's Don't really notice much difference other than the carbon fiber is a Little more revvy Yeah I've had really good luck with them so far but I did buy an 888 Haltzfforma It came with a bad coil and I changed that out then it spoogeed oil out the exhaust Like crazy couldn't tune it out seem to be always getting too much fuel I finally sorted that out And it run like stank for about a half hour and throw the bottom end on the Conrad at 25:1 oil ratio And just for curiosity I looked on the steels website to see if they have any problems with their 880's And I seen quite a few reviews where people said the 880 088 Stihl's did the same thing
Thank you. Grew up around/in a machine shop since I could walk and talk. Built an outdoor boiler in 2014. So I needed a saw to cut wood. That is when it all started.
I believe that the 441 coil might also fit the 361? I've run 2 blue 372xps for a few years now and honestly besides carburetors and 1 coil they have been pretty reliable. I modified both of them and they run better than the stock counter part.
Interesting and good /timing/ of the video, I just did an advance on my 460. I got a little carried away with the file and probly did more like .030. If you're not careful it'll yank the starter out of your hand. It feels like it has more power though and i haven't really noticed it making any unhappy noises, but I'll probly go back to stock or less advance after this. Maybe you could try a colder or non extended tip spark plug on the dyno with the advance and see if it makes a difference?
Great video Joe, tons of good info here. I've got a question. Did you try to tighten the air gap in between the coil and magnets to get a better spark? I've heard the coil produces better spark with a .005 to .007" gap vs the traditional .010" gap.
On setting timing small movements can make big differences. 372's are very sensitive Like more advance can give you more torque and less rpm in the cut and more retarded can give you more rpm in the cut but less torque. I know a more precise way to set timing. To know how much 1 degree is on the flywheel or at the keyway. Measure your crankshaft at the key slot then multiply by PI then divide by 360. Do the same on your flywheel. That will give you thousand of an inch per degree. Example On 372's are about .005 off the key for 1 degree and flywheels are about .039 per degree. On my 372 I had a problem too advanced had lots of torque but popped like crazy I moved the key a little less then 2 degrees retarded about .009 off the key it rev alot higher but lost that high torque but like it there.
I've got two 034's building up one leaving the other stock to compare with, i starting with the muffler mod then timing advance 15thou cut off key and it held 800rpm higher in the cut, went to 30thou of the key and it would rev higher but wouldn't hold the rpm as high, went back to 15thou, removed base gasket, 17thou clearance to head from piston, raised the exhaust port 10thou and widened both intake and exhaust, cleaned up transfers and polished the carb throat and venturi, it cut almost as good as my stock ms460 both running 20" 3/8 with 7 pin drivers, im pretty sure it's fighting the restrictive air filter, if anyone has any ideas on a less restricted filter, cannot be just mesh, needs to filter
Very cool test. I can add some info about timing; decreasing squish distance, increasing squish area, increasing compression all speed up the ignition event. So if your timing is spot on before any of those modifications, you might have to retard it to make more power. The broad power curve of the timing advance run was interesting. I don't know what octane fuel you are running but it wouldbe interesting to take it up a couple points and see how the saw responds. Increasing octane has the same effect as decreasing timing. I wonder if you could keep the fat curve and still beat the stock setting with a little more octane.
I used the degree wheel to scribe my timing degrees 0 to 30 btdc on the flywheel then use a timing light. That coil look like it has a healthy curve °10 mabe °15 ?.
How to speed up the ignition in a partner 351 chainsaw and the power is much better than in the original. By default, the ignition is 2,5 mm before top dead center.
Idk about others but I greatly appreciate your effort to share this stuff. It’s a great info to reference when building saws. Thank you
Thank you very much!
I second this. 🤘
I went the clone route for some medium duty work to begin with. After almost spending too much money on more clones I came to my senses and bought a Husqvarna 545 MK II......it was all downhill from there......for the clones. Since getting the 545 I have been so impressed that I purchased a 572XP for the heavier work. You are right Joe.....good to learn on but not to depend on.
Hello Joe, I don't know about other people but personally I would rather enjoy 'no music' being played when you are talking/explaining. Other than that, you videos lately are getting better and better. Thank you so much for sharing the technical insights :)
Thank you for being honest! I am/will be trying lots of different things to make the videos better into the future. Will be keeping a close eye on the comments to see what people do and do not like.
Thank you @@dynojoemods2764 :)
Yeah I gotta say that I thought the same thing, listening on headphones it's very distracting and subtracts from the knowledge being shared.
Im with him, love your channel, the music isnt what i come for. Will still watch tho, just sharing my thoughts @dynojoemods2764
Keep this kind of content going.
I like messing around with clone saws and have nothing but clones.
I can do this because I only really need one reliable 50ish cc saw to cut up my 4-5 cord of fire wood for the year.
I have 1 joncutter 5800, it's 4 years old and has never acted up, I always get my wood cut up without issue with it.
I have 1 supmix 6200, it's my back up for the joncutter, it seams fine but is still early days. The zenoah clones like the joncutter are pretty solid but not exciting saws. I'd just as soon have it as a 50cc name brand home owner saw.
I also have a neo tech 892, I dont need this saw, I use it blocking up the easy to get to fire wood pile, it's ported and quite fast/fun for that. It's had issues tho, the decomp, the oiler, the gas /oil caps and the chain adjuster have all been swapped out, I also had to mod the control lever to get fast idle to work.
I dont take the neo tech to the woods to cut wood but I dont think twice about taking my other saws.
I can tell you are getting more at home behind the camera. Loving the content and your non biased way of presenting it.
Thank you, I am really trying to step it up all around. Health, family. Content etc.
@@dynojoemods2764
Good for you. Keep up the good work. Maybe I'll see you at another GTG one day.
Loving this series...
I read on a forum somewhere a guy was buying these new for every logging job he did and when done the job gave them to the landowner for scrounging firewood after he’s gone. Seemed like a cool idea. He thought they were pretty great for the short term pro use he did and thought they’d be just fine retired with a homeowner.
Not a bad idea at all.
My ms170 I cut .025 out, and it came alive! Night and day it cut better than my stock 120 husky and it has 6 more cc. I was surprised how much effect it had.
Good job Joe. Wish you could port my 361 and 362. But i live down under mate.
Good job on your vids mate
Good video ya I could here the change in the runs cool bud
This series has been very interesting actually seing how much gain is made from each mod. Great content keep it coming.
Love the content Joe! Thank you for sharing.
DEF. enjoyed the vids
Really enjoy this series. I buck all my firewood with clone saws and thats how I test my mods, good cheap fun. I'd like to see you try the 49mm Big Bore for the G366. I've tried a couple, they ran fine but not sure if I gained. Thanks for the great content.
038 super cylinder works. 044 10 mm piston
I don't use a saw to make a living , I just saw firewood and play with them, a couple of clone saws do me just fine a whole lot better than the pawn shop poulans I was using, for about the same cost .❤
Joe when doing timing on cars we used white out on timing marks makes them really show up on timing light lights
As far as taking that little “E” clip off, I always start by using the spark plug side of the scrench by sliding it over the clip and pulling or pushing (whichever way is needed at the time. Then it’s “usually” a tiny thing to put my thumb over it to finish removing it. Reverse the process for installing 😊
Personally I prefer ALL OEM,
That being said I wanted to get into porting, I could not justify practicing on a $1200.00 saw. I purchased a Farmertec saw, NWP crank, OEM bearings and seals. I had a OEM Walbro carb, so far it has been running well and cutting a lot of wood.
I chose that route because all the OEM cylinders I looked at were $300.00, I would rather destroy a $150.00 cylinder than the OEM. Thank you for the video sir.
The neotec saws are built a bit better. I own a tree service and use the ms660 and 372xp. They are ok. I have 5 of each. They all break eventually. I'm usually changing top ends, sometimes carb diaphragms, and sometimes a case cracks by the bar studs.
Really cool vids. Keep on going. It is interesting for us that want to try. Thanx for being honest about the clones. It seems there is some out there that promotes chinesium saws with "OEM like" stickers.
The problem I had with the dial in timing lights is they are set up for clockwise rotation and chainsaws run anti clockwise.
Great info Joe!!! Def will help everyone out planning to build these things. Like you said some like an advance and some just don't. 👍🏻
I run both Holzfarma and Neo-tec clones. I cut fire wood fairly heavily, take bigger trees down for people from time to time, and do storm damage clean up for people here and there. 4-6 cord a year really doesn’t say much, but with the clones I have found it takes about two outings to find all the week spots for normal use. I usually find a hand full of stuff little things that need fixing. Big thing I have ran into on the clones with clone carbs is the metering lever hight is not right or needs a slight adjustment. I have seen this issue recently with OE home owner grade stuff like the new MS250 style as well. I will say from the couple clone saws I have blown up they were ported and I was probably at a head temp above 320/350F. Clone cranks are not as straight as OE across the board. other than that if you get a build you like for the application and you blow a clone up and you put OE crank, piston, and cylinder it and it works out well for building a tailor built saw for an application. They make great back up saws for the money I would definitely put two of them in the truck if I had to have 100% reliability. I save my real MS460 for stuff when it really matters. I have found that a good clone build coupled with an OE pro saw (pick your poison) makes for an effective fire wood situation where your saving the hours on the good stuff. My OE saw is down to a couple tanks a year. The back up saw is a ms260 hulz clone ported with a 25” bar spinning 3/8 full house. She is on her second season an I have been mean to it. But it got a full going through before I put it into hard service. The clone saws have to be flushed out, inspected, ran lightly for brake in, and inspected agin (clip and orient the wrist pin clips is a must). Loose fasteners, crappy starting rope, metering lever on the carb, and 50/50 on whether the oiler is worth even trying to mod for more oil. I would say the starter rope, carb, and the oiler have been some things that I have found more often than not on the clones to be non serviceable just get a OE part or something of better quality. For a stent the Hulz oilers that came on the saws were just garbage. If a clone was completely gone through, broke in, the quirky stuff fixed, lightly ported with a muffler mod, ran with fantastic 2 stroke oil I can see getting 250 hours of service out of one with little to no issue. Compare that agents an OE pro saw out the gate with the muffler mod and same quality oil. I can safely say that you will probably make the 250hour mark with little to no issue and the time that would have been used to work on the saw would be used making wood chips for money if you were running a business.
Love this stuff and I love the dyno charts you have. Gives a lot of us some good info to try
Hi Joe, thanks for the ignition timing testing you have done. This helps confirm what I have found with my G366. Just as you demonstrated , the stock ignition coils are weak on the G366. I don't think it's just a G366 issue because I have seen this issue with other clone saws. My G466 was another problem child for me. There are some aftermarket coils that work better overall. It will be interesting to see what your ignition timing will end up being when you get to raising the compression. As near as I can tell mine is probably about 3 to 4 degrees retarded ignition timing after raising the compression. My G366 is prone to recoil kick back if I don't back the timing off a bit. I use my G366 for firewood cutting, I'm not fond of the cord being ripped out of my hand. I'm looking forward to more on this saw build progression of yours!
Good video.just ordered one and plan to have a play to about where you are now.
Perhaps some mild porting later I have a couple of stihls for backup. Thanks again for the videos
Thank s Joe.
Thank you😊
Nice job Joe. 👍🏻
Thank you.
You can’t get any real professional use without you doing that work… bevels on the port window’s and piston edges… upgrades on the rubber and plastic seals and fuel line type stuff… my experience was 3-4 years and the lower quality is deteriorating badly.,, you can beat the bejesus out of one for the 4 years though!!! On a $300 dollar 372! $75 bucks per year investment for a pounder isn’t a bad investment!!! If you are doing 30 cord or firewood cutting?!? It’s fantastic! So they can definitely have a place in a small business!
really good!
I will never rely on Chinese products…I am neither a brand name fan nor an expert on small engines . However, ported is nice, but for my firewood business I run both Stihl and Husky…haven’t moved to 400/500i yet, I will wait a time first.
I have 6 clips or so around the shop. That went twing and Mia. I buy them a dozen at a time
No water leaks! Great Vid!
Thank you
Good video Joe.
Thanks 👍
I've got the devil in the blue dress 666 and a 660 Pro carbon fiber w Meteor cylinder and Caber rings rings she's definitely got that high compression kick I've been running the blue saw for about 8 years and then carbon fiber for about 5 years They seem to run alongside my 660 Sthil's Don't really notice much difference other than the carbon fiber is a Little more revvy Yeah I've had really good luck with them so far but I did buy an 888 Haltzfforma It came with a bad coil and I changed that out then it spoogeed oil out the exhaust Like crazy couldn't tune it out seem to be always getting too much fuel I finally sorted that out And it run like stank for about a half hour and throw the bottom end on the Conrad at 25:1 oil ratio And just for curiosity I looked on the steels website to see if they have any problems with their 880's And I seen quite a few reviews where people said the 880 088 Stihl's did the same thing
You're a smart young man. I'm interested in knowing how you got into chainsaws. God bless you
Thank you.
Grew up around/in a machine shop since I could walk and talk. Built an outdoor boiler in 2014. So I needed a saw to cut wood. That is when it all started.
I believe that the 441 coil might also fit the 361?
I've run 2 blue 372xps for a few years now and honestly besides carburetors and 1 coil they have been pretty reliable. I modified both of them and they run better than the stock counter part.
Nive build review joe😊
Interesting and good /timing/ of the video, I just did an advance on my 460. I got a little carried away with the file and probly did more like .030.
If you're not careful it'll yank the starter out of your hand. It feels like it has more power though and i haven't really noticed it making any unhappy noises, but I'll probly go back to stock or less advance after this.
Maybe you could try a colder or non extended tip spark plug on the dyno with the advance and see if it makes a difference?
Great video Joe, tons of good info here. I've got a question. Did you try to tighten the air gap in between the coil and magnets to get a better spark? I've heard the coil produces better spark with a .005 to .007" gap vs the traditional .010" gap.
I did not try messing with the gap. Might have to
@@dynojoemods2764It may not even make a difference. It may be a myth or wives tale.
.012 is good or thickness of a business card. If you go less you risk destruction
On setting timing small movements can make big differences. 372's are very sensitive Like more advance can give you more torque and less rpm in the cut and more retarded can give you more rpm in the cut but less torque. I know a more precise way to set timing. To know how much 1 degree is on the flywheel or at the keyway. Measure your crankshaft at the key slot then multiply by PI then divide by 360. Do the same on your flywheel. That will give you thousand of an inch per degree. Example On 372's are about .005 off the key for 1 degree and flywheels are about .039 per degree. On my 372 I had a problem too advanced had lots of torque but popped like crazy I moved the key a little less then 2 degrees retarded about .009 off the key it rev alot higher but lost that high torque but like it there.
I've got two 034's building up one leaving the other stock to compare with, i starting with the muffler mod then timing advance 15thou cut off key and it held 800rpm higher in the cut, went to 30thou of the key and it would rev higher but wouldn't hold the rpm as high, went back to 15thou, removed base gasket, 17thou clearance to head from piston, raised the exhaust port 10thou and widened both intake and exhaust, cleaned up transfers and polished the carb throat and venturi, it cut almost as good as my stock ms460 both running 20" 3/8 with 7 pin drivers, im pretty sure it's fighting the restrictive air filter, if anyone has any ideas on a less restricted filter, cannot be just mesh, needs to filter
Very cool test. I can add some info about timing; decreasing squish distance, increasing squish area, increasing compression all speed up the ignition event. So if your timing is spot on before any of those modifications, you might have to retard it to make more power. The broad power curve of the timing advance run was interesting. I don't know what octane fuel you are running but it wouldbe interesting to take it up a couple points and see how the saw responds. Increasing octane has the same effect as decreasing timing. I wonder if you could keep the fat curve and still beat the stock setting with a little more octane.
Thank you for the info. I will try and keep an eye on those things see if I can find a correlation.
👍👍
👍🏻👏
Can i use a timing light for cars?
(4 / 6 / 8 cilinders)
What cool can you run for hotter spark ??
Dissect that li'l beast while'st it's still awake😅
I used the degree wheel to scribe my timing degrees 0 to 30 btdc on the flywheel then use a timing light. That coil look like it has a healthy curve °10 mabe °15 ?.
About 16 from idle to wide open.
Oke boss kita tonton video ini
How to speed up the ignition in a partner 351 chainsaw and the power is much better than in the original. By default, the ignition is 2,5 mm before top dead center.
Hey Joe, I wish you would have shown actually cutting the keyway then installing it.
I am sorry about that. I will try and include it. I hold with vice grips and file off the desired amount
Don't change your videos from the original imo you and the est coast shop talk chainsaw guys are my to watch guys when it comes to saws
Don't the coils in just about all cheap saws go bad and are weak ? I would expect that outcome, put a OEM coil on it please and do this again.