Do you need magical credentials to be a witch or an occultist?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- #witchcraft #wicca
The short answer is no. The long answer is maybe, but with a grain of salt, and depending on context and your goals.
www.thornthewi...
/ thornthewitch
/ thornthewitch
Check out my book: www.amazon.com...
"Witchcraft is inherently anti-establishment. Can you show me any paperwork that authenticates your level of anti-establishment?"
If I had the the money to study magical related or magical adjacent studies I would love to attend Ronald Hutton's history courses at the University of Bristol. I would do it just for pleasure and the personal gratification of learning more than I know now. British Folklore and British pre Christian Paganism? Sign me up!!!
Wow, I must say this really hits Home! I’ve been practicing for 40 years. Been a teacher for 35 years. I have a long list of teachers I’ve studied with. In the small town I live in now at the small metaphysical store. There are people coming in. I call him one book wonders or one course wonders and they think their teachers and they know it all. It takes years of practice years of sitting next to other teachers, for example, myself, Starhawk T thorn coil, and it’s hard because what these people are teaching they’re pulling it out of their you know what. And they’re trying to off of what people have worked years to get so thank you for this subject. It’s very important.
For me, one of the biggest lessons of the current times is that even people with credentials can give information that willfully misleads people. Even academic knowledge can be bound to the thinking of that generation of people who access to such an institution and can be found erroneous by a later generation. So credentials for me are no longer a permit to blindly trust someone and rest comfortably in their knowledge. It doesn’t exempt me from being critical and validating what was provided with my own experience and the lessons I have drawn from them. That being said, it doesn't mean I am not interested in what the person -credentialed or not - has to share. It doesn't mean I won't consider what rich thoughts and fruits of their experiences are offered. It doesn't mean I won't experiment with what they shared. It just means that my experience will ultimately dictate what I choose to believe.
I think money is an important factor here, because it creates power imbalances that are not necessarily beneficial to magical/spiritual learning and development. When someone has paid for a course, they will feel some degree of entitlement to get their money's worth, regardless of whether they actually do/learn all that's expected of them. This might not be a problem in a basic tarot class, but will complicate things in contexts of deeper occult learning, where much depends on the inner magical development of each practitioner, something that can't be hurried. A teacher who depends on these classes to make a living will hesitate to fail or hold back a paying student. Especially when what is taught is as subjective as spiritual development. The more significant knowledge the course purports to convey, the more expensive it will be, and the higher the expectations to succeed will become.
I find this to be most true in very New Agey spaces, since New Age has such a strong capitalist component. This is unfortunately where most newbies start - without the experience to know which courses are legitimate and which are just a waste of money - while the people best able to tell actual knowledge from bullshit tend to dwell at the more initiatory and less commercial end of the spectrum. This also is why I'm a big fan of the norm within Wiccan traditions to never charge people for training or initiation.
Not to brag... but I have 33rd degree black belts in both armchair psychology AND quantum scientology😜 GREAT VIDEO!
I have been wondering for a long time how long it would be before there was a Clergy-Laity differentiation among neopagans. I have a couple rhetorical questions. First, does knowing the history of witchcraft make you a witch? Second, do your spells work, or are your readings accurate? I think of this issue like this, there are ordained Xtian ministers who do not believe in Jesus, and it is evident that they have neither gift nor calling, but they still have fools who follow them and pay their salaries. I'm so glad to be a solitary occult (hidden) practitioner.
I am new to practicing witchcraft/magic(k). While watching your video I realized that my background is pretty good for this type of thing. I have an associates in computer programming and systems analysis. The Craft or magic in general is at its core energy manipulation. Programming is manipulation. Magical systems and The Craft follow formulas that dictate how things are done and what usually corresponds with what. When someone looks at a problem to solve with a program that person has to figure out what system and tools will be used. They then have to write their intentions into instructions and then it is released into the electronic world.
Sorry for the rambling comment but your video made me feel a whole lot better about myself and my abilities. I feel a little less imposter syndrome now. I also hope this might help someone else realize their unique perspective. Thank you for the video! Blessed Be!
Are you on Religion for Breakfast? Wow! I love that channel! I'm finishing my Master's on Religious Studies, and I just love how your videos touch in many topics I am studiying
I’m not sure when my episode will release, but yes! 💙 I was so excited! I hope to see you at a conference some time! It’s always good to see folks from UA-cam!
Extremely Interesting discussion. I’m glad I stuck it out. My knee jerk reaction when you said ‘who gets to write books’ was ‘whoever the hell wants’ and to stop playing the video.
I did have to chuckle when you talked about the doctor being in the bottom percentage of their class. My partner always says “your doctor may have failed the class of whatever it is that’s killing you”. I guess my point being is that college can give you the credentials but that doesn’t guarantee the knowledge. And I hadn’t even thought about the fact that someone might have their phd in a completely non-relevant field. (Mind blow, thanks for that lol)
I, like you, love taking magical classes more to obtain a particular skill or piece of knowledge and enjoy the structured learning environment. The credentials are not as important as a solitary witch. I would love to find a way to be a professional student.
I listened to this and was thinking about credentials in other religions. For example, in Tibetan Buddhism lineage heads and other important figures sometimes write official letters confirming the credentials of a teacher. Those credentials arise from within the traditions and may be related to texts or institutions that specify/contextualize the qualities of a good teacher. On the other hand, in the U.S. there's more this sense of an overarching, credential model or culture across sectors that doesn't arise within religious traditions specifically, but instead that general framework might get introduced into neopagan religions from without. What does that mean, I wonder? It's hard to originate specifically religious systems of authenticity or leadership without basing the project on pre-existing models drawn from other societal systems. There's a question of how to evolve specifically pagan or occult understandings of authority or authenticity without replicating structures that may have little to do with our spiritualities.
Your talk about credentials and people using them to make themselves look more "expert" in a field that might be totally unrelated to their credentials reminded me of something I learned all the way back in 9th grade: When presented with the review of a horror film that's been digested down to "...chilling...," it's best to make sure the full review wasn't "About as chilling as a warm bath" before seeing that particular movie. :-) That lesson has stood me in good stead many a time since then. (I also remember friends in the military who laughed at the idea of "genuine military grade" being best with the added comment, "Remember, this came from the *lowest* bidder...:) Your point about "Can I do the thing good" (oh, the grammar! LOL) is really a good foundation upon which to build.
Great subject!
Religion For Breakfast is a cool channel, I will have to check out the episode with you in it. Thanks Thorne, Happy New Year🌞✨
I’ll share it once it’s released! Happy new year to you too, Laura!
@@drawingKenaz Thanks 💫
Hey Thorn, thank you for sharing! I love your content ♡
Thank you, RavenHeart! 💙
Really love that you covered this topic. I think the lack of strict structure and authority is one of the reasons why so many people scoff at the idea of witchcraft as anyway legitimate, and treat all people who engage in it as scammers or delusional, which unfortunately isn't entirely unwarranted.
But like you say, it's part of draw of witchcraft.
I think there comes a point in your practice that you can begin to discern for yourself whether or not the writer/mentor has authority or not to speak on a subject by researching and looking at their work. Though it can sometimes be hard to tell if it's covering very obscure topics with not much concrete info (I heard the runes have been a mess to learn real knowledge about cuz of edred thorrson?)
That's true about Runes. Norse Witch has a couple of videos on non-racist sources for the study of Runes.
13:46 Show the receipts Thorn! 📜📜
Being in a coven is a pretty popular credential, too. Most of my favorite authors are or have been in covens.
But then I think about someone like Kelly Ann Maddox who is solitary but a highly experienced and knowledgeable witch and author. So it depends. Unless you want to learn about covens I guess.
That’s why I said “most” instead of “all” of my favorite authors. To be fair, they don’t all actually write about being in a coven, which is a good thing because, much like Kelly-Ann Maddox, I’ve never been in one, either.
Have you considered creating a new channel for these Thorn-the-author videos?
Nah, it’s too much to manage! I already post so infrequently!
Is your Discord server public Thorn?
...but, are you qualified enough to make a UA-cam video on this?
I am joking, and Happy New Year!
Definitely not 😌
You too!
I really enjoyed this discussion and your insight in this video. Tangentially related, but it reminded me of all of the guys who put their OTO degree and A∴A∴ affiliation in their bios when no one outside of those groups needs or wants to hear about that. 😅
Totally. Or when people use “HP” or “HPS” like it’s a degree after their name, in contexts that have nothing to do with being a practitioner.
The link in your description to thornthewitch (the website) continues be broken.
Thanks! I’ll see what’s up with it. I’m sure I’m just screwing something easy up.
@@drawingKenaz Good luck!