Hey everyone! Hope you like the video and hope you're staying safe and healthy out there!! Also, sorry that sometimes I got bad focus on my camera lol. I am bad at my job. Anyhow, if you want to support my work and throw me a few bucks, here's my patreon! www.patreon.com/bigjoel Go there if you want to give me money or if you just wanna stare at my patreon page for a while! that's your call. (Also, there's a lil note on the video if you click "read more," just so you know.) I just wanted to make a point that I could have probably made slightly clearer in the video. A few people are pointing out that UA-cam can't reveal the functioning of its algorithm to its workers because it doesn't want them to "game the system." I of course agree with that and certainly expect UA-cam to make better choices about their corporation than I do lol. That said, my point here, among other things, is more oriented around what that fact allows youtube to do and how it enables them to be perceived, as well as what it means that youtube is a company that fundamentally works BECAUSE it is able to maintain the facade that it wants nothing, that it is NOTHING like Wendy's. In other words, in general I am not talking about what UA-cam should or could do while still doing what UA-cam wants to do, I'm talking about what its choices, and the propaganda it uses to reinforce those choices, say. I hope this was clear but I just wanted to make it, like, very clear lol.
Damn, I dont get ads now, so I missed that. But that makes me weary of youtube premium. Yea lets make our ads annoying, so people will pay to not see them. 👀
Also, since I'm here: The Katie Morton thing: This is like every company/university/school/organization's approach to mental health. They bring somebody in who talks about self-care and taking a step back and breathing. But this is just a show. The company/university/school/organization will do nothing to adjust the material conditions that lead to your stress/burn-out/mental health issue.
I feel like the fact that you will have a burnout/stress/mental health issue is taken into account by the company, and they act as it is just that way. They factor in that you may eventually have a burnout, and they tell you that only thing you can do is meditate and not get angry about *why* you got there in the first place.
Of course! Because adjusting the system would cost money and the new system would not be as profitable. It’s not possible for a corporation to want to make a profit, they must make ALL OF THE PROFIT. They have to optimize profit because the economy is only doing well if it’s growing and that means that companies are only doing well if they’re growing so they must grow as much as possible in order to be doing the best they can to please the shareholders so the shareholders can make more money which makes the numbers grow which means the economy is growing which means the company has to grow more and... So spins the wheels of corporate greed, on and on.
my college is hosting a thing rn where we get a chance to win a pizza if we participate in the 'fun and free!' virtual group study-a-thon this weekend. it's supposed to be a way to bring us all together while we all cram for exams none of us know the info for because of the shitshow that was this semester. rather than lax rules this semester or change assignments to better suit the new online platform, we get the exact same guidlines but with an *☆added bonus!☆* of possible free pizza
In these trying times we hope you come down to the retail location to take advantage of these CRAZY sales!! It's like they're not even trying to hide their disdain for human life anymore.
I have to say that the Walmart ad with the ceo standing in front of pictures of employees while calling them heroes made me absolutely furious. It’s like, don’t sit there and call them your heroes when so many full time employees are still so poor they have to sign up for food stamps just to afford food.
@@doubtful_seer Everytime I saw that ad my stomach churned. "You guys are cool and epic and making me money, so uh guess I'm going to chill in my mansion taking phone videos that make me even more money."
youtube is like if wendy’s said “we recommend you fill the coffee to the line, but you don’t have to! if you don’t, we will stop paying you your wages, but you don’t have to!”
This is like a really subtle but pivotally important element in all of modern capitalism, the illusion of freedom and choice is central to maintaining the structure and ensuring compliance.
Because, if you're all just buddies one of them just *happens* to get paid way more for basically just setting everyones schedules and writing emails to people higher up than them, then why would you ever want to organize and demand fairer pay structures and actual benefits from working 40ish hours a week: Would you really wanna do that to your friend?
You should watch Cuck Philophy’s “societies of control” video, it’s basically all about how modern systems of control present themselves as being a free choice
Don't mind it being a "private website" but than I expect them to be liable for everything and a demonspitized video or ban isn't gonna cut it if more people upload child porn or terrorist propaganda. God willing screw UA-cam
YUP, I SURE DO LOVE WHEN JEROME’S DUMB FUCKING FACE POPS ONTO MY SCREEN IN THE MIDDLE OF A BREAKDOWN OF “THE BELL CURVE” TO TELL ME ABOUT HOW ULALA CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. Its the fucking BEST.
@@ZeketheZealot Indeed at least if you must have interruptions like that doing it manually ideally having planned for it when writing the script would seem the more logical way to do it. Can at least make sure it coincides with a natural break between subtopics or chapters where it will be less jarring that way. TV shows don't cut to commercial in the middle of a scene either for good reason it's mildly less annoying to at least wait for when the action would naturally cut to the next scene or better yet what would be the next chapter if the story was in written form.
UA-cam: "So steer clear of swearing and making anything that could be construed as adult content." ~So you want me to make video that would be appealing to children? UA-cam: "NOOOOOOO nonono that's strictly forbidden by federal law and the FTC. Make content that couldn't be seen as adult or child friendly and appeals to literally no one. Make it so abstract that it defies classification as video if possible."
@@rescuerex7031 Hello, have you heard of the fine cult of Unus Annus? (In case you don't know, a bit part of that channel's idea was making videos without worrying about monetization/UA-cam's "rules")
@@rescuerex7031 Well yes, the videos weren't avant garde, but the concept was. Considering the "ideal" UA-cam channel (for UA-cam) is one that's safe, makes ad money, and is long lasting... Well, their premise broke all three of those rules.
@@strega1380A very interesting and depressing thought. Almost like UA-cam is all of our Pennywise and we find it increasingly harder to defeat it because it moves like the little girl on South Park who ended up being a sentient, walking and talking advertisement to keep people distracted and divided. But then again, it was rigged from the start.
i think this is just subtly wrong, it's not trying to convince the world it doesn't exist, to me it's more just trying to convince people it's not a company making profit off of peoples work and rejecting pay if its even slightly out of line. but its also not maliciously trying to sabotage creators, so it's a status quo of corporate authoritarianism, but its opt in, so like, not? Its a problem because UA-cam is a monopoly, but if it wasn't for that it would be a confused self sabotaging but sustainable platform, and honestly im starting to break my own brain
@@xymaryai8283 it *is* a company making profit off of peoples work. It want's to act like it is not what it is so he figuratively said they are trying to convince people that they do not exist. Not entirely as a company, but just not as they actually are.
As a "creator" (that title has always grated on me) on UA-cam, I agree with Giant Joel. UA-cam does what they do primarily for their corporate interest and way down the list comes the interest of those of us who make them cash hand-over-fist.
Also way down the list (probs not as far down as creators, though) are viewers. I've been on YT as a viewer since the beginning and have developed a pretty refined, narrowed-down set of tastes. The truly quality content on this platform is, imo, pretty much never promoted and only ever discoverable via some roundabout route, often not involving YT at all, or a set of obscure searches, accidental discoveries etc. Finding quality channels these days is like finding goddamned gold, and no matter what YT never, ever stops pushing their terrible favourite creators at me constantly (right wing political content despite my never watching it and the deeply, depressingly mediocre Try Guys as random examples).
You’re not even on the list. There is no list. There is a single line-item; accumulate paper abstractions for Google’s shareholders and the shareholders of their advertising partners. That’s it.
No need for a list. If the interest of creators is ever addressed, it's only just because they create profit for UA-cam by providing the raison d'être for viewers to come and watch long enough to be interrupted with ads. That is, they'll check their profit and see what they can adjust to improve it, and if the interest of creators is one such variable (and modifying such variable is currently the most efficient route), only then will it be taken into account.
this is a great example of the neoliberal "californian ideology" of decentralized networks of control, critiqued by folks like zizek and fisher, in action- 'i'm not your boss! we're all friends here, you are a free and autonomous individual" etc
It's basically the "I'm not a real mom: I'm a cool mom" of corporate jargon: nobody will want to rebel or unionize or ask for fairer wages and working conditions from the "cool boss", the cool boss let them have scooters and Hawaiian shirts and Foosball tables
Yknow, I appreciate being able to wear nice casual clothes to work, to be able to work from home, and have a workspace where I can breath. But fuck if I don't want an actual boss to lead this dumpster fire. Or a clear path to becoming said boss. There's a reason you usually have to leave companies now for raises and promotions. The "Cool Company" atmosphere doesn't have time for things like performance reviews.
David Mitchell has a funny little video in his comedy series about consensus. How corporate entities always feel like in a discussion a certain tone of consensus must be reached where those in power get their employees to agree that broadly speaking, yes, "this is what we all think the right path forward is." This way, he contends, everyone involved is equally culpable if anything goes wrong. The corporate who made the wrong decisions will not be criticized anymore, because ostensibly, they all agreed that that was indeed the best course of action.
@@eparigon I just miss his animations! He's fully devoted to Game Grumps and while I'm glad that he's found success, I love his animation style and wish he would still make shorts of his own. It's tougher than ever now with stuff like the COPPA legislation.
@@hellosabrinachaney I am happy he's at least making it possible for other animators to make money while animating by paying them to animate for the channels projects and music videos. I also like the fan-made animations of Game Grumps moments he and the rest of the gang inspire.
Gotta say as someone making a living (trying) at this... I definitely don’t work for UA-cam or any corporation. That being said it’s a really weird and unique dynamic that I have a hard time finding an analogous comparison to. It’s like part entertainment, part MLM, part .... I don’t know. Lots of things I wish were different. I certainly don’t work FOR a corporation yet I’m completely at the mercy of one, who could “fire” me for any reason... it’s a stressful life. But I genuinely believe in what I do and I definitely don’t see UA-cam as the end game
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 like I said, I don’t view it as the end game, more of a stepping stone. Edit: ok I didn’t say that above but I’m saying it now lol
@@NightDocs it's not as complicated as you make it sound. You produce for UA-cam, a corporation, they don't necessarily pay you, but they most likely get paid. Either way, you're doing work for their benefit, the people who visit your channel engage with UA-cam, UA-cam benefits. You are doing work for UA-cam, as simple as that. The only way you aren't is when you no longer upload to UA-cam, and delete your channel.
@@sighduck9789 it would be nice if we didnt live under capitalism but in here the choices are to comply with capitalism or starve and if the only other option is literally just dying then you arent being given a choice. So yea. My man just tryna eat lol
It kills me how creators talk about "The Algorithm" like it's this unknowable Lovecraftian Elder God. We're more than capable of understanding the fundamental laws of an algorithm, but the information required for comprehension is deliberately withheld. That said, I had never heard of you or your channel before today, and the Great Old Algorithm decided to drop this video on my lap. Not the slightest idea what I'm going to find on the rest of your channel, but I hope it's as analytical and direct as this is. I don't have space for more Patrons at the moment, but consider this an IOU for a friendly kiss.
That's something I had actually been thinking about for a while but couldn't quite express. UA-cam's whole brand I think, is based off of a sort of nonexistence, I think because it's meant to be like TV, just a box that shows you whatever is produced and not care what that is. Of course, that's not true, UA-cams actual brand is a social media network specializing in videos, but that's not what youtube wants anyone to think. Because then their social media network might one day become uncool and another video sharing site could take it's place. UA-cam wants to be the medium and not just a place that holds the medium. Thanks, Gigantic all-consuming Joel for the lovely content.
Just like capitalism, it’s class relations, and it’s ruling elite. It’s all obscured behind the language of science and “rationality,” and naturalized as a fact of the universe. If you “fail” it’s some deficiency of character or biology on your part, it can’t possibly be the universe’s fault.
@@riz3310 Yeah, I think all dominant systems tend towards that narrative eventually. This system wasn't really made by people, it was a logical consequence of existence and you can't really change it. It wasn't made by people and it can't be changed by people either. It's the status quo and always has been even if we just made it up a few years ago.
@@Willowthedruid777I It wasn't a logical consequence of existence, but a consequence of the material conditions. You change the material conditions and you change the system.
Whenever I hear that "audience sees content creators as friends" bit I am reminded of the best way to do propaganda. You just assume your target already thinks in the way you want the propaganda to make them think. Because that's what that bit is there for. To encourage leaning into parasocial relationships. Incidentally that bit also makes me queezy because that is an immensely creepy assumption and a behavior that I would actively discourage if I ever had an audience acting like that.
I’ve never really considered that I work _for_ UA-cam. Maybe I’m so against the cynicism displayed by UA-cam’s detractors that I miss the manipulation. I suppose I saw the reworking of Creator Studio as an update to meet the ever changing paradigm of UA-cam’s position in the world. But maybe it’s the other way around. Maybe it’s a catalyst for, rather than a reaction to change. Hmmm.
I mean, black people have been trying to tell y'all this but like in IT Chapter 2, you all only listen if we have some weird mind altering drug to help you see exactly what we're talking about. This is a country built upon slavery, for fuck sakes, to be a patriot is akin to being a Confederate, a traitor who fights for enslavement rather than true freedom.
@@silentj624 I think their point is that in a way UA-cam tricked it's creators into working for them under the guise of freedom of creativity (except there is no actual freedom [or limited at least] if you are trying to monetize). Work is wage slavery so.. you're opting into a form of slavery unknowingly.
Genius level control is when you still feel fully autonomous. We hate the feeling of being told what to do. It's true skill to manipulate those who feel it was *their* idea.
Destroy a small town and cut them off from the rest of the world so you can record them either slowly rebuilding or going insane, either one should be good content.
A thought that occurred to me: another reason we might see such huge difference between the Wendy's video and the Creator Academy videos is access. The Academy videos are UA-cam's way of informing their worker bees about how to behave, and these videos are very open for the public to see. Any one can find them whenever they want. The Wendy's video (corporate training videos in general, this video is clearly available to us) was not made to be widely seen by the public. Usually, you would need to go through the on-boarding process at such a company to see such a video. Do you think there is something to this idea of public availability of these corporate videos? I'm not sure.
I definitely think there's something to that idea. Totally different public relations considerations would go into a those two different types of videos. This is a good observation.
One point is I don't think UA-cam can entirely tell you how to succeed. They can say roughly what they have tuned the algorithm for but a lot of how the algorithm promotes things is basically a black box to them so they can only give rough guidance.
yeah I agree! I thought i mentioned this kind of early on when I said, "measuring the goodness of a video is harder to do than measuring how well a cup of coffee conformed to Wendy's expectations." That said, I find the idea that UA-cam's algorithm is truly a black box, that they couldn't give more specific instructions even if they wanted to, kind of troubling. First, there are apparently hundreds of signals that UA-cam receives in order to rank videos, and I have trouble accepting that none of those refer to the sorts of content UA-cam is looking for, which boxes are most optimal to check. Second, even when UA-cam does very explicitly want something from creators, like that they favor longer videos, they feel the need to couch it in this general, corporate language of "do what you want to do," leading me to think they're extremely cagey about indicating to creators the sorts of things they're looking for.
@@BigJoel They're definitley not as open as they could be. I think part of that is beecause they learned from early on in youtube/google that as soon as you give perfect informatoin about how to improve your popularity people will game the system. The couching is also cowardly but I guess it's part of the brand they're going for; as you say, they don't want you to be their employee, you're an independent creator and these are just helpful tips to market yourself.
@@sethzard People still game the system to the best of their ability though. They hate transparency, if everyone knew the guidelines they wouldn't be able to constantly tweak everything under the hood.
@@BigJoel isn't the point that they aren't demanding things? They give suggestions on ways to make you videos more successful, but don't enforce it. It's up to the creator what they want to do, and if they find an audience in shorter videos, good for them. In a real job if the employee didn't do the equivalent of making long videos, they would be fired, but youtube gives the extra freedom. I guess I just don't see the specific point you were making. Isn't it a good thing that youtube doesn't enforce these things and let's the creators decide how to do their work? In the end be a creators will all ways find ways to make money in New ways, it seems to me that there is a push and pull between creators and youtube on what the most effective way of making content is. The creator finds success, youtube adapts the algorithm, making other users have to adapt as well and so on. Now that I'm writing this I kind of see the problem, youtube is chasing after the way to make the most money, and the creators have to change to catch up, stifling true creativity. This is all coming from someone who has no experience on the business side of youtube, so this is just my best guess.
@@BigJoel "This will please the algorithm, we think." Also just imagine they have a big robot called the algorithm host one of the videos and it just tells creators to steal family guy episodes and how to avoid copyright Id from noticing it.
"We're here to learn to make good videos." No, you're not there to learn how to make videos. You're there to learn how to get as many views and subscribers as possible, which doesn't necessarily translate to video quality. How for example does "posting at the optimal time to maximize views" affect the quality of a video? It doesn't. The video itself would be the same on a tuesday as it would on Sunday evening. Shareability is another example, your video pandering to a wider audience may lead to creating content that's watered down to appease many rather than being a more potent, interesting niche where it can be unique. Why be unique when you can be the same cookie cutter shit that everyone else produces?
good points! There's one part I want to discuss but please don't take it as negativity: it's just hard for me to add anything to other great points you made. That's how commenting works I guess. So my gripe here is with "The video itself would be the same on a tuesday as it would on Sunday evening" regarding "posting at the optimal time to maximize views", because I do feel it is part of making a good video: yes, it doesn't matter if video is self contained or I come to it much later after all the parts of it have been released, but if I am following series and I have to wait for the next part for six months instead of a week, it will affect my viewing experience, right? I'm not saying that the creator always has a say in that, but it seems like something worth pointing out in the case they do.
@@raymondkertezc364 I agree in a sense, that sure does affect the experience, but I’d argue it doesn’t actually affect the video quality in itself, just how people interact with it. For instance, if someone came in later and watched them all in a row, they would not think the video is worse at all
This encapsulates my cynicism and skepticism about youtube the platform so well. UA-cam the Platform is trying to pretend it's UA-cam the Community so it doesn't have to take responsibility for the platform's mistakes. Also the new UI for Creator Studio is so stressful and I hate it.
Yes, I really find it distasteful for two reasons: first it encourages unhealthy, parasocial relationships between creators and fans, and second it makes a mockery of the idea that UA-cam acts as a platform for art, creativity or whatever: the platform specifically discourages and scorns scripted content, animation and so on in favour of low effort and dragged out conversations, often content that is navel-gazing and focused entirely petty and disposable stuff like reactions to UA-cam drama.
@@cmbeadle2228 For it's less that I find them distasteful; I'm just bored by them. I watch youtube mostly to learn something new or to relax (ASMR), and neither of this is provided by the life story of some creator. It's totally okay when they tie tidbits of info into their videos, particularly if it has to do with the topic or if it helps me to understand where they're coming from. But apart from that, I don't really care.
@@cmbeadle2228 It doesn't have to be complex or all encompassing. A simple "what is your favorite video game?", At the end of a gaming video is enough to make it conversational. It's not needed for me but I see that a lot of people are just waiting to post.
Yeah, I've never been a fan of vlogs or q&as. I like a video that shows up with something to say, says it, and then stops. Throwing in the occasional "you guys" (addressing the audience) is fine, but I like videos that make a point and leave.
"If we think we're burned out, how do we get over it?" sounds a lot like "there's no such thing as burnout, you're just lazy, get over it and get to work."
I process burnout by taking a break, relaxing, reading a book, watching anime, playing games, just letting it pass, and reminding myself that I'm doing this rest and relaxation for the sake of productivity and not for my own health and I guess I can't stop dreading going back to work so my boss can tell me how slow I am at the job I'm #2 on the quality assurance board for but none of that matters because I make less money by spending more time servicing one customer's needs thoroughly even though they keep telling me quality assurance is more important ok I CAN'T DO BOTH JIM oh god help me fix my brain please
Though, to be honest, I don't think anyone's denying burnout is real. Rather, it's treated as a roadblock to the process of work rather than an active part of that process that has to happen for the mind to function well. Or a natural, avoidable result of the increase in productivity itself.
@@Junosensei yeah I'm familiar with that. Except I worked in a factory, so time was strictly limited and I was forced to adapt. It wasn't smooth or easy, and by the end it was still always a conflict between quality and time, but I did adapt a little bit. "You're one of my best inspectors Adam, but you need to speed up." I didn't burn out though. It was quality inspection stuff. We metaphorically plugged the holes until the holes themselves were fixed by someone else. And it was always standardized. I don't know why I didn't burn out, I guess I never considered it was something that could happen. I didn't enjoy it in the first place, so that's probably why. I didn't dread it, most of the time. But I rarely got any satisfaction out of it. And I did want to quit on multiple occasions, but it was my job, and I didn't have any other job opportunities that were any better, mostly worse.
I don't feel like that's what they were even implying. It's not accusatory, it is just about dealing with a thing that happens. This isn't about *why* people burn out. That's another subject.
I actually wish that there was more opportunity for community in the comment section of UA-cam, but I guess we are supposed to be obsessing over our Parasocial relationship du jour. It’s a bit creepy how isolation is built into the design.
@@riz3310 I disagree, I think community has more to do with common interests than physical location. Otherwise, we wouldn't have terms like "the black community" to represent black people as a whole in the US.
That's what they want. Forums were peak online community. Ever since then they have broken down our ability to build relationships with people online . Jesus and now look at tiktok
This really reminds me of Uber. Like UA-cam, Uber was originally intended just for carpooling, but now people's livelihoods actually depend on it. The algorithm was made for an era when you could get weird, wacky, and original videos whose creators had no ambitions for fame and success. In a weird way, the people on this platform now conform to the algorithm, rather than the other way around, and the incomes and careers of UA-cam creators are now at stake. The weird phenomenon that Big Joel points out here is a symptom of a system that has not adapted to its reality. Either you're a high-volume/high-effort content creator or you're just an anonymous uploader, but things get strange when we try to blur the lines between them.
the burnout thing really hits home with school and all. like, we're expected to put out high quality work day after day, participate in classes, do homework, and of course do well in our sports. schools can say they want better mental health but without the attitude of the whole country changing or without systematic changes to the workload/reward expected everyday by the school itself, things won't change. but the school can't change that without losing prestige in the eyes of Colleges™ or grades dropping, even if the students feel better.
Its appalling. There is zero legitamate reason our society needs to be run this way. Capitalism has no morality and it's only job is to make the already filthy rich winners, ever more increasingly wealthy. And that wealth doesn't pop into thin air, oh no, its coming from us, the workers. Which mean schools are there to teach you how to be an obedient unquestioning producer for them. Dont get me wrong, LEARNING is very important and some teachers do an excellent job. But if I could give you advice, I would reccomend that you make a habit of digging deeper into things that don't make sense to you, dont be afraid to question authority. It seems you already have a curious and skeptical mind, dont lose it. Learning independently about politics and history are a great place to start as they are often the most misconstrued in the class room. They and go for primary sources. Notice that things that try to be unbiased often make a value judgment showing oppressive forces as equal to those fighting againstoppression, and that is not actually very fair. They will tell you that socialism is bad, but what is inherently wrong about workers owning their own labor? They will tell you that the government functions correctly, but how can it do so if the one with the most money wins the race 90% of the time? Most importantly though, they will tell you the world isn't fair, and it isn't meant to be. They will tell you that people are inherently unkind, and then gaslight you until you believe that about yourself. It will be subtle, but it is the most insidious. If you escape becoming an unkind person, you will be left thinking that you are one of few kind people in the world. This is also not true. So, your right, the system is unfair and it doesn't have your best interests at heart. But dont be complacent about that, make it your driving force. Work to change it so the people that come after you can have a better shot at life. The world works best when old men plant trees in which shade they will never sit in. And it's never too early to start. You will be in good company.
@@rosemali3022 some points I don't agree with (I don't think valuing happiness that no one will ever cash out is the best way as "The world works best when old men plant trees in which shade they will never sit in" claims, for example), but the second-to-last paragraph made me feel good enough even in itself to give you a like!
“a bit less than usual because you convinced fewer viewers to subscribe” I almost can’t believe UA-cam made something so blatantly toxic like that. Almost.
This video was amazing!! I'm an Anthropologist doing my PhD about the labour and lived experience of UA-cam creators and this was so spot on for an article I just finished titled: "We're all told not to put our eggs in one basket": Uncertainty, precarity and cross-platform labour in the online video industry" 👌
As a therapist whose caseload is mostly people with Antisocial Personality Disorder, who has had clients who meet criteria for psychopathy - YES THEY HAVE HEARTS WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU LADY.
As someone who has absolutely no experience or degree in any form of medicine, i can inform you that having a heart is almost definitely required for survival, and if they did not have hearts they would almost certainly die
@@zenosol234 lol don't believe everything you read on the internet, humans don't require hearts, you can easily replace it with a car battery and things work out just fine
@@li0nna I mean, you don't need a human heart, or even an organic one, but I'm 98% sure I need more than just a car battery to keep these fluids pumping. And because it's in my head now: "Here are Humanity Inc, we produce natural, non-gmo, free-range, carcinogen free hearts with minimal processing to ensure your health and holistic well-being."
Anyone reading this, don't get it twisted. Google is an advertisement agency. That is their business. Every search you do is mined for advertising possibilities. Every video is checked to see if it will be useful for ad placement. This is their game. They're not a technology group. And at this point, neither is facebook, instagram or any of these other 'social media services'. They're all literally ad agencies under the banner of social media or technology group, but in reality, those are the secondary aspects to the company and simply the tool they use to be ad agencies. This is what silicon valley loves to call 'innovation', which is basically taking something already known and already exists and figuring out how to monetize it.
any site that has to choose what stuff to show you has an algorithm of some sort, but it's less of a factor on patreon because it's not really where you go to find new things. kickstarter though, their algorithm matters a lot and should probably be investigated further. what the site decides to show directly influences what projects get funded.
@@brimple the ultimate youtube comment fantasy is convincing someone to delete their bad comment by mocking them. i'm at the tip top of maslow's hierarchy of needs rn
Totally meta video, I congratulate you for blowing my mind...criticizing UA-cam tips while following most of them, excellent add placement, fairly conversational tone, telling us how UA-cam is manufacturing consent while we participate, thereby consenting...it’s like that short story that I never read when somebody gets hanged, but in the split moment while it’s happening he’s considering all the possibilities. I mean, we’re all getting hanged by UA-cam, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple, but we’ve got a second to consider what’s happened as we are sacrificed to the internet machine.
I'm a software engineer, so I perhaps have more insight into "the algorithm" than most people: so I can say with some confidence the reason YT doesn't tell people what signals and such they should look into is because... they actually don't know. I've always found it fascinating that the algorithm is basically this cold, distant magic that no one can really know or control, and in many ways it really is like a force of nature. You can read some general advice from its behavior, like the fact consistent updates lead to more views, but that's an emergent property, not something YT hard-coded into it (presumably). The only thing YT actually sets is the goals or metrics: more views, more view time, more ad revenue; demonetize videos ad providers don't want to advertise on. All of these are strategic decisions some human somewhere made, yes; but how the algorithm determines a lot of it is just magic. Like yes, some human person at some point decided that only certain videos should show up on the Home tab, or your Subscriptions list or in your notifications; but which ones is not decided by any one person, only by the algorithm: the algorithm looks at what videos get the most clicks and subsequent view time, and then shows you those videos. But no human being knows how the algorithm does it, no one can tell you what kind of video to make to get chosen by the algorithm, beyond very vague and general tips, like you see in these corporate videos.
Except when you use google now you will only find mainstream sources. For eg, anyone who reads this needs to search "Palestinian News" in the engine of your choice, the goal being to find a Palestinian News Outlet. Good luck 🍀 www.thedailybeast.com/how-youtube-pulled-these-men-down-a-vortex-of-far-right-hate www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-gave-green-light-nuclear-permits-saudi-arabia-after-n1013826 dailycaller.com/2016/03/02/this-little-known-trump-soros-connection-will-surprise-you/
@@uncannyvalley2350 Ehh, I'm not a software engineer but I know stats and enough about how self learning AI work to know that while you might be able to weigh certain flags or factors with the intent of artificially inflating or deflating the prevalence of certain links, it will also make the algorithm preform worse in it's primary function. In other words, any changes in the algorithm to promote a certain agenda will come at the expense of it's primary goal, which is to put as many ads as possible in front of as many people as possible. So the first question you have to ask yourself when considering whether an algorithm is biased is to ask "will pushing X agenda make Y algorithm-based company more money than selling additional adds". Because of course a companies primary concern is money.
@@discipleofbolas oh, so did you look for Palestinian News sites, or are you equivocating based on your own limited experience? Look up Operation Talpiot and Unit 8200 some time, or look into Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epsteins connections to Promis software and the new 911 platform. You dont know what you dont know
Recently I was trying to put into words why it would be so difficult for people on UA-cam to make and join a union like other workers, and it's only after watching this video that it's because it has the same struggles as any other gig economy, which is actually kinda obvious in hindsight
More typical corporate structures have gotten wise and cleverly obfuscated the true dynamics of hiring and advancement in similar ways. By the time you are through training, you've likely been administered a personality test under seemingly innocuous but ultimately false pretenses so that data can be used to influence the opportunities that come your way. They perform advice in the same way UA-cam does, essentially instructing you how to act without justification and pretending the system behind that decision does not exist. It's exhausting. Just found your channel but you are becoming a fast favorite. Love the videos!
@@fallingpetunias9046 He makes similar media analysis videos but is a bit more politically explicit than Joel. His breakout video essay was this: ua-cam.com/video/iIdbLUm-ez8/v-deo.html The bestiality in manga video is here: ua-cam.com/video/aKSpEOMHvIU/v-deo.html
The irony of an ad playing right in the middle of Joel explaining midvideo ad placement, like in the middle of his sentence. Because, what a great way to point out how much I actually hate UA-cam adds and their often terrible placements
Man, you putting the midroll ad right when you start talking about UA-cam wanting to place the midroll ads for you is brilliant, if it was actually intentional
Exactly when you mention of strangeness of 'increase your viewer experience" by allowing youtube to automatically place mid-roll ad, the ad come up. Good stuff.
I think a big thing to keep note of, is that "successful" on UA-cam, is not the same thing as making "good content." Granted *someone* is enjoying it if it's successful. But I still wouldn't describe toy review channels, reactions, or even the vast majority of let's plays to be "good content." Some or all of that is subjective however.
when I tried watching the "creator academy" videos (back when they were originally released), they immediately rubbed me the wrong way and I couldn't quite figure out why. I couldn't even get through the first one, they just seemed "off" to me, like watching them made me uncomfortable lol. You pretty much perfectly articulated exactly what's "off" about them I think. Well, the non-existence thing and the fact that they pretty much only feature "normie" type creators - from like an ~A Lister of UA-cam ~ upper class that exists.
Google uses the same obfuscation techniques in search. They'll say "hey, this will help you rank better" and won't get into the specifics as to *why* the advice will help you rank better. They are masters at walking the fine line between purposely confusing and accidentally confusing. It's pretty impressive actually.
14:20 I got anew job at a hospital late last year. I used to work in medical research before. During my orientation at the job I was wondering about how it felt to be on the opposite end of corporate propaganda when before, I was helping create it. I feel like this moment summarizes how I felt pretty well.
10:00 I think a reason why youtube might favour automatic ads is that a lot of watchers probably feel more goodwill towards videos that don't 'feel' as monetised. So if the ad is just there, the viewer feels like youtube put an annoying ad there, but if the content creator specifically made an ad-break, then the viewer feels like the person they're watching is selling out and trying to make money, which makes them dislike them and makes them less likely to watch their stuff in the future. Obviously, they're monetising it the same amount, but making it feel incidental I think makes people subliminally more positive about it.
You do such an unbelievably good job helping me understand why these videos feel uncanny to me and make me uncomfortable. You have a wonderful way with words, the moment of you saying UA-cam was presenting itself as a force of nature was such an 'aha!' moment.
Your explanation of why UA-cam needs to be so subliminal about its messaging reminds me a lot of scientific academia. The idea of science as the end all be all of rational thinking and the highest of ideals to reach for really obfuscate that it is all being done through the medium of academia and in fact the structure has a complete monopoly on what is considered “legitimate” science. And so just like creators on UA-cam individuals scientists dedicate almost every aspect of their lives towards succeeding in science as it is shaped by academia. And just like creators here they often become incredibly burnt out (e.g. me) but always end up blaming themselves and sometimes being blamed by others as not smart enough or “just not built for science” and hardly ever consider giving any blame to the structure they are embedded in that asks them to deny their needs and humanity in order to best perform. All this because it is trying its darnedest and often succeeding at being invisible.
That's interesting, but there really isn't another way that we know of to do things? Science is all about empiricism. If you don't manage to find results that you can reproduce and that anyone can reproduce, in similar circumstances, the knowledge you'd obtain would be extremely hard to define or understand... The entire point of the scientific method is to ensure that whatever is found can be used to further knowledge (and sometimes people will correct themselves). Science is really hard, specially because there's so many people and that it's a job (where it used to be something people practiced fron passion before), but I can't really see how the scientific method could be one-upped. I also don't think you should blame academia for those things. Academia is what is used to criticize systems, and that's practically all it is. Epistemology, for example, could (and probably has) raised very valid critiques of science and how it operates.
Why does UA-cam even have like counters? Like the function of the like button should be the viewer telling the algorithm that they want more of this, it should be personal to improve the experience of that one viewer. Feedback works much better in the comments, what does a like even mean? Views kind of make sense because it shows how many people have seen it but I feel like the only meaningful feedback is comments. But then at the same time I can just see that being exploited, if UA-cam pivoted to comment focus, there would still be creators finding a way to make people comment nothings. I think subscribing can be meaningful too as it shows whether you are gaining fans rather than just idle views but the value in that depends on whether you're aiming for concurrent views or if you want to pull very different audiences for each video. I guess the problem with criticising UA-cam is I really don't know how to improve. I guess the only method I can construct is for it not to be a monopoly so we can see competitors trying different methods and innovating in a survival of the fittest type of way. But it's hard to see monopolies not happen on the internet when it's what the internet is built on
People are already commenting nothings to drive up "engagement". So I don't think UA-cam hiding likes by default would change that much. (Also, just because you couldn't see them doesn't automatically mean The Algorithm™ doesn't take them into account.)
no one likes to talk about how youtube is exploitative towards workers because everyone wants their chance in the spotlight but in general it’s still workers working and being exploited unfortunately
UA-cam is the blueprint for 21st century capitalist exploitation. We went from feudal lords who owned you, to factory lords who made you come to their factories to work for them, to an invisible corporate entity that makes you think you work for yourself when working for them.
@@buttlicker7670 you realize they are talking about the progression of a systemic issue. You are suggesting a, likely temporary, solution for only one person.
I love how an add started playing mid-sentence as you were talking about youtube placing ads for the creators. rly shows why that is actually a bad idea, and I keep seeing that happening in other videos as well if you pick the time for the ad yourself you can do commercial break vignettes, or at least place it some where fitting for the pacing of your video, because when the ads just pop up out of nowhere in the middle of sentence, that's just fucking annoying an completely throws the viewer off
I have no idea why most creators don't decide where to place ads. There's a youtuber I watch that always announce an ad break, and it surprised me how much it lessens my annoyance towards the ads.
Maybe because they know that people doesn't really watch most of the videos, but doing something else while listening to it, so placing an ad out of the blue ensures that they aren't reaching for the remote to turn down the volume, since ads are louder.
also, if an ad is randomly placed in the middle of a sentence, you're going to want to keep watching rather than pausing and coming back at a later time like with a DVD or a book, or "flipping the channel" to something else because you've reached a natural end. it's all about those extra few seconds of Watch Time
@@inkasaraswati7625 Watching this gives me an idea why: Because UA-cam wants to shove in a ton of ads into every video as they jolly well please, and tries to convince UA-camrs they want them to as well. And for a lot of UA-camrs, it apparently works.
I really like this. I like this because this isn't just a youtube phenomenon. In-fact it points to a larger systemic trend within liberalism that strongly encourages action to the point that it essentially forces you into that action. The language is softer, but the end product is the same as being bullied. In many ways I would even argue that this is how capitalist liberal society obfuscates themes that really start to look fascist in nature. I don't want to suggest that Liberalism in the west is the same as say Italian fascism in the early portion of the 20th century, but damn don't they share some faint similarities. Don't the results look similar, but the tactics are different? The UA-cam example is so on point, because in many ways, UA-cam starts to feel like a state-like entity. You don't have to use it of course, but it's the biggest video website on the web and it's heavily implied that at some point you will use it. I mean at least be sent something by a friend. You can watch a video, but what if it's flagged as 18+. Well you'll have to make an account and submit your age. Doesn't this look like applying for a drivers license or a social insurance number? As a creator, don't you have limitations on what you can post? You can't upload pornography, or violence, or else your account may be suspended or removed. Does this not mimic the same action the state would incur upon someone? Fining them, or jailing them? You spend this video acknowledging how youtube treats its workers. How they have a preference on how these workers interact and labour. Workers don't have to make videos in these ways, but obviously UA-cam chooses to promote a specific method. I feel like this really mimics how we labour in general in society. If i'm on the dole, choosing to not work for 9 months, every time i collect a unemployment cheque, do they not ask me if i'm taking steps to become employed? If i'm a content creator, does youtube remind me that I haven't posted a video in a while? I wonder...
So many of these videos you show clips of remind me of training videos for the corporate places I've worked. All it's missing is the part about "we don't need to unionize, we're a family" lol
14:26 UA-cam, like Amazon, has simply recognized that overwork coupled with high employee turnover is more profitable than humane work schedules and low employee turnover, since the hiring and training process is essentially automated/outsourced to the employee.
I'm glad the hurricane recommended me this video. I feel like the answer to your final question on why UA-cam does this is that they don't want to pay creators as employees, simply contractors.
This is quite the oddity. I went to the Original Creator Academy is Los Angeles back when it was a series of in-person classes and it was a genuinely helpful experience. There had heads of departments teach lessons on back-end stuff, you were paired with similar channels so that you might collaborate with them, and you were even given a little workbook to help you suss through the details of running a channel. This was pre-midrolls and before the acknowledgement of creator burnout, circa 2014. The best part was we all got to ask the heads of these departments frank questions about why things were the way that they were on UA-cam and we got honest answers. It almost makes me miss the simple days when all we had to work about were spurious ContentID claims and predatory Multi-Channel Networks. My own take on this while "constantly shoving analytics in your face and telling you to optimize every last thing, but also telling you to take self-care time" is similar to how a chain pizza place treats it's drivers. Anyone whose ever worked for one of 'The Big Three' as they're called can tell you that you get a talk from your training bosses along the lines of "we're going to load you up with three, four, and maybe even five orders at a time, but don't ever speed or hop fences... you absolutely MUST make sure all the orders get in on time and that all customers are satisfied with your oven-to-doorstep times... but don't ever speed, wink wink, nudge nudge" It's more of a C.Y.A. strategy that's employed by the bosses that flies in the face of the reality of the task that the employees are given. You can't help but notice that pretty much every big UA-camr that makes it big who has facial hair tends to go grey before they're even out of their 30s. As for the nature of their opacity, I'd chalk that up to 2 things. 1) unlike Wendy's, we're not "employees" of UA-cam so says our tax forms so they can't really make us do anything in that sense. couple that with the nature of creating videos and while it'd be nice to have uniform content with perfectly in-line creators like we were all our own little marvel movie directors, it would result in a multi-billion dollar platform filled with nothing but videos that were stale before they even went live. 2) is that we are never, ever going to get a clear idea of what the algorithm does or how it works. The second the algorithm is known is the second it becomes exploited by literally everyone. See ElsaGate, React Channels, ReplyGirls, and attempts to abuse the video response system. The only way for the algorithm to work to everyone's benefit is to have no one truly know what to do if they want to gain its favor. Dang, I just wrote a 3-paragraph essay reply instead of working on my own videos. What am I doing with me life.
*The thing with UA-cam, is that Google doesn't **_really_** know what it's doing.* Oh it knows what it wants, and it certainly tries to guess how to get there, but it constantly fails. "How is that possible with a massive corporation?!" How is it possible that a search giant with all the metrics and data at its fingertips is not a sales and delivery giant like Amazon? Despite its massive data vaults, not a cloud hosting juggernaut like Amazon and Microsoft? It was an Online Office progenitor, but Microsoft who came in much later still considered the favourite? Not a conference calling master despite having multiple performance-optimized apps? ...this can go on for a really long time and smarter people than me analysed Googles continuous stumbling. Google comes up with strategies to improve its own situation, mostly by experimenting a lot and seeing what sticks. Google would like you to think that it's more in control of its platform's future than it really is.
@@nerobernardino88 tbh they haven't had a genuinely successful product since then. The closest would probably be Google Assistant and that's more just Google Search with a different interface.
Probably their issue is that they often waste too much time in stupid concepts and/or assume too many incompetent people... It feels like Google and UA-cam are still such giants only because of inertia from their initial success
How much Google (Alphabet) may succeed in the future is unknown, but it will certainly continue to struggle for a long time yet: Despite all the well-deserved dunking, we must not forget that Google still managed to establish an all but complete browser monopoly with Chrome and that Android is present on 70% of mobile devices (according to online statcounter).
Absolutely cackled when your midroll ad interrupted your discussion of midroll ads. Flawless comedic execution, and absolutely proved your point that UA-cam is placing ads to serve itself, not creators or their videos.
It would be interesting to see a video specifically about the relationship of UA-cam's selective pressures and the parasocial relationship issues mentioned by PhilosophyTube
You should watch StrucciMovies fake friends videos if you liked olly's take. They disagree on the subject but Shannon's work on those videos is honestly amazing.
I think the biggest problem truly is that there is no hard and fast formula to UA-cam success. You can understand the algorithm but if it was an exact science everyone would succeed. Great video!
@@thesnorg1442 Who's the pedant? Is it the guy gently ribbing someone or the person replying "weeeell, aaaactually" to a jokey comment? (Hint: it's you)
I mean are we at all surprised? The biggest people on this site have the exact same style of video. UA-cam props them up and does not promote new or smaller channels anymore. Watching this place evolve since the beginning has been a fascinating example at how capitalism fucking sucks
I can't be the only one who got a mid-roll ad at 9:53 exactly ... lol was that deliberate (forgive me I'm on someone else's laptop it doesn't have Adblock I GET IT)
As a small creator in this platform I think that you spitted some hard truths about how there’s a constant pressure from UA-cam’s part to keep growing constantly and that can feel very jarring. I make musical content and can’t adhere to their model content for the very nature of what I currently make. But I have learned to keep a cool head and not stress over analytics and such. I prefer viewing as me sharing my passion with the world first and foremost and growing and hopefully monetizing second. You’ve given me a lot of think with this one, great video as always!
The mid-rolls chunk really got me. Especially when the vid’s only mid-roll occurred not just at an awkward spot, but when Biggie Joel was _in the middle of a word_ .
There definitely needs to be some kind of follow up to this where someone discusses the impact mental health the way the UA-cam Studio (and social media more generally) has on the mental health of its users.
Hey everyone! Hope you like the video and hope you're staying safe and healthy out there!! Also, sorry that sometimes I got bad focus on my camera lol. I am bad at my job. Anyhow, if you want to support my work and throw me a few bucks, here's my patreon! www.patreon.com/bigjoel
Go there if you want to give me money or if you just wanna stare at my patreon page for a while! that's your call. (Also, there's a lil note on the video if you click "read more," just so you know.)
I just wanted to make a point that I could have probably made slightly clearer in the video. A few people are pointing out that UA-cam can't reveal the functioning of its algorithm to its workers because it doesn't want them to "game the system." I of course agree with that and certainly expect UA-cam to make better choices about their corporation than I do lol. That said, my point here, among other things, is more oriented around what that fact allows youtube to do and how it enables them to be perceived, as well as what it means that youtube is a company that fundamentally works BECAUSE it is able to maintain the facade that it wants nothing, that it is NOTHING like Wendy's. In other words, in general I am not talking about what UA-cam should or could do while still doing what UA-cam wants to do, I'm talking about what its choices, and the propaganda it uses to reinforce those choices, say. I hope this was clear but I just wanted to make it, like, very clear lol.
Thanks big joe, you’re the first person to invite me to visit a patreon page without paying.
here's a permanent invite: discord.gg/Q5f2yWd for those who wanna join the fan discord!
Welcome to societies of control Big Joel.
Hey, how come you didn't credit the animations? It looks a lot like AgentXPQ style, was this his work? Or was it Ben C?
As much as I've tried to avoid making those types of videos, I'm really tempted to do a "reaction" video to add on to some of your points.
putting the ad right in the middle of talking about random and jarring placement of ads.... absolute genius, truly beyond our time
I didn't get an ad at that point and am truly disappointed!
I laughed out loud! No way of arguing against it being annoying and jarring
Damn, I dont get ads now, so I missed that. But that makes me weary of youtube premium. Yea lets make our ads annoying, so people will pay to not see them. 👀
When I noticed it I had to see if someone had made a comment about it. You beat me to the punch.
totally epic show & tell
Also, since I'm here: The Katie Morton thing: This is like every company/university/school/organization's approach to mental health. They bring somebody in who talks about self-care and taking a step back and breathing. But this is just a show. The company/university/school/organization will do nothing to adjust the material conditions that lead to your stress/burn-out/mental health issue.
They make it an individual personal growth issue instead of an issue stemming from material conditions
"If you're still stressed out, then it's YOUR fault! You are not doing enough self-care!"
I feel like the fact that you will have a burnout/stress/mental health issue is taken into account by the company, and they act as it is just that way. They factor in that you may eventually have a burnout, and they tell you that only thing you can do is meditate and not get angry about *why* you got there in the first place.
Of course! Because adjusting the system would cost money and the new system would not be as profitable. It’s not possible for a corporation to want to make a profit, they must make ALL OF THE PROFIT. They have to optimize profit because the economy is only doing well if it’s growing and that means that companies are only doing well if they’re growing so they must grow as much as possible in order to be doing the best they can to please the shareholders so the shareholders can make more money which makes the numbers grow which means the economy is growing which means the company has to grow more and...
So spins the wheels of corporate greed, on and on.
my college is hosting a thing rn where we get a chance to win a pizza if we participate in the 'fun and free!' virtual group study-a-thon this weekend. it's supposed to be a way to bring us all together while we all cram for exams none of us know the info for because of the shitshow that was this semester.
rather than lax rules this semester or change assignments to better suit the new online platform, we get the exact same guidlines but with an *☆added bonus!☆* of possible free pizza
All the ads now are corporate entities trying to yell “WE CARE ABOUT SICK PEOPLE, SEE! THERE'S EVEN SAD MUSIC!”
*somber piano music* "We here at Dow Chemical know that things are rough right now... Ok, now buy our fucking products."
In these trying times we hope you come down to the retail location to take advantage of these CRAZY sales!! It's like they're not even trying to hide their disdain for human life anymore.
"We care about workers!! We're even calling them heroes"
I have to say that the Walmart ad with the ceo standing in front of pictures of employees while calling them heroes made me absolutely furious. It’s like, don’t sit there and call them your heroes when so many full time employees are still so poor they have to sign up for food stamps just to afford food.
@@doubtful_seer Everytime I saw that ad my stomach churned. "You guys are cool and epic and making me money, so uh guess I'm going to chill in my mansion taking phone videos that make me even more money."
youtube is like if wendy’s said “we recommend you fill the coffee to the line, but you don’t have to! if you don’t, we will stop paying you your wages, but you don’t have to!”
This is like a really subtle but pivotally important element in all of modern capitalism, the illusion of freedom and choice is central to maintaining the structure and ensuring compliance.
Because, if you're all just buddies one of them just *happens* to get paid way more for basically just setting everyones schedules and writing emails to people higher up than them, then why would you ever want to organize and demand fairer pay structures and actual benefits from working 40ish hours a week: Would you really wanna do that to your friend?
I was thinking of Fouccault the whole time.
Manufacturing Consent
@@psivil.disobedience
I can see someone knows about that Noam Chomsky stinker.
You should watch Cuck Philophy’s “societies of control” video, it’s basically all about how modern systems of control present themselves as being a free choice
UA-cam out here making a really excellent case for why it should be a public utility and not a business.
I came here to say just this, but alas, in my heart, I knew it had already been said.
Don't mind it being a "private website" but than I expect them to be liable for everything and a demonspitized video or ban isn't gonna cut it if more people upload child porn or terrorist propaganda. God willing screw UA-cam
That is to say if it was public, it would be run better? I don't think so. I'm sure there would be drawbacks either way.
i think you misspelled everything
I honestly think that it should be broken up.
"Auto-midrolls are a better experience for viewers."
Needed a good hysterical, tear-inducing laugh today. Thanks, UA-cam lady.
YUP, I SURE DO LOVE WHEN JEROME’S DUMB FUCKING FACE POPS ONTO MY SCREEN IN THE MIDDLE OF A BREAKDOWN OF “THE BELL CURVE” TO TELL ME ABOUT HOW ULALA CAME OUT OF NOWHERE. Its the fucking BEST.
Yeah, we all know no midrolls are viewers' preferred choice. But thanks for the advice, faceless corporation! We'll do your bidding ^~^
@@ZeketheZealot Indeed at least if you must have interruptions like that doing it manually ideally having planned for it when writing the script would seem the more logical way to do it. Can at least make sure it coincides with a natural break between subtopics or chapters where it will be less jarring that way. TV shows don't cut to commercial in the middle of a scene either for good reason it's mildly less annoying to at least wait for when the action would naturally cut to the next scene or better yet what would be the next chapter if the story was in written form.
Now I understand the "I watch the Superbowl for the Commercials" mentality.
@@johnjamele
I mean, pigskin is pretty dull, and I've heard the commercials can be pretty wild, so I don't totally blame those people at least.
The whole things wreeks of that "We're a family" corporate attitude.
I wanted to like but... 117 likes.
Reeks
UA-cam: "So steer clear of swearing and making anything that could be construed as adult content."
~So you want me to make video that would be appealing to children?
UA-cam: "NOOOOOOO nonono that's strictly forbidden by federal law and the FTC. Make content that couldn't be seen as adult or child friendly and appeals to literally no one. Make it so abstract that it defies classification as video if possible."
Fuck I really want to make an extremely Avant Garde Channel that games the UA-cam system super hard, but I don't know how
@@rescuerex7031 We must first learn the system. At this point, we know we have failed.
@@rescuerex7031 Hello, have you heard of the fine cult of Unus Annus?
(In case you don't know, a bit part of that channel's idea was making videos without worrying about monetization/UA-cam's "rules")
@@indigopines It wasn't that Avant Guard other than randomly talking about death, and them dying every video
@@rescuerex7031 Well yes, the videos weren't avant garde, but the concept was. Considering the "ideal" UA-cam channel (for UA-cam) is one that's safe, makes ad money, and is long lasting... Well, their premise broke all three of those rules.
"UA-cam presents itself as a force of nature"
I've been hearing a lot recently about how capitalism does the same thing
Interesting
This has been a long-standing assumption held by academic economists.
it's easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of youtube
@@strega1380A very interesting and depressing thought. Almost like UA-cam is all of our Pennywise and we find it increasingly harder to defeat it because it moves like the little girl on South Park who ended up being a sentient, walking and talking advertisement to keep people distracted and divided.
But then again, it was rigged from the start.
UA-cam is owned by Google, and Google imagines itself inevitable.
It very much depends on how you define capitalism, but what we call "free market economics" definitely is a force of nature.
"Take a load off, let us place your ads f-" *ad*
Made me laugh more than it probably should have.
Absolute mad lad
yeah lmao same
Not using Addblock XD
Ya, that was brilliant, you can have my 5 cents from the ad :p
This is next level genius hahahah
"The greatest trick UA-cam ever performed is convincing the world it didn't exist"
i think this is just subtly wrong, it's not trying to convince the world it doesn't exist, to me it's more just trying to convince people it's not a company making profit off of peoples work and rejecting pay if its even slightly out of line. but its also not maliciously trying to sabotage creators, so it's a status quo of corporate authoritarianism, but its opt in, so like, not? Its a problem because UA-cam is a monopoly, but if it wasn't for that it would be a confused self sabotaging but sustainable platform, and honestly im starting to break my own brain
same with its daddy Google.
@@xymaryai8283 it *is* a company making profit off of peoples work. It want's to act like it is not what it is so he figuratively said they are trying to convince people that they do not exist. Not entirely as a company, but just not as they actually are.
As a "creator" (that title has always grated on me) on UA-cam, I agree with Giant Joel. UA-cam does what they do primarily for their corporate interest and way down the list comes the interest of those of us who make them cash hand-over-fist.
Also way down the list (probs not as far down as creators, though) are viewers. I've been on YT as a viewer since the beginning and have developed a pretty refined, narrowed-down set of tastes. The truly quality content on this platform is, imo, pretty much never promoted and only ever discoverable via some roundabout route, often not involving YT at all, or a set of obscure searches, accidental discoveries etc. Finding quality channels these days is like finding goddamned gold, and no matter what YT never, ever stops pushing their terrible favourite creators at me constantly (right wing political content despite my never watching it and the deeply, depressingly mediocre Try Guys as random examples).
You’re not even on the list. There is no list. There is a single line-item; accumulate paper abstractions for Google’s shareholders and the shareholders of their advertising partners. That’s it.
@@Lucysmom26 you better PREACH
Which is worse, "Creator" or "UA-camr"?
No need for a list. If the interest of creators is ever addressed, it's only just because they create profit for UA-cam by providing the raison d'être for viewers to come and watch long enough to be interrupted with ads. That is, they'll check their profit and see what they can adjust to improve it, and if the interest of creators is one such variable (and modifying such variable is currently the most efficient route), only then will it be taken into account.
this is a great example of the neoliberal "californian ideology" of decentralized networks of control, critiqued by folks like zizek and fisher, in action- 'i'm not your boss! we're all friends here, you are a free and autonomous individual" etc
It's basically the "I'm not a real mom: I'm a cool mom" of corporate jargon: nobody will want to rebel or unionize or ask for fairer wages and working conditions from the "cool boss", the cool boss let them have scooters and Hawaiian shirts and Foosball tables
Yknow, I appreciate being able to wear nice casual clothes to work, to be able to work from home, and have a workspace where I can breath. But fuck if I don't want an actual boss to lead this dumpster fire. Or a clear path to becoming said boss.
There's a reason you usually have to leave companies now for raises and promotions. The "Cool Company" atmosphere doesn't have time for things like performance reviews.
David Mitchell has a funny little video in his comedy series about consensus. How corporate entities always feel like in a discussion a certain tone of consensus must be reached where those in power get their employees to agree that broadly speaking, yes, "this is what we all think the right path forward is." This way, he contends, everyone involved is equally culpable if anything goes wrong. The corporate who made the wrong decisions will not be criticized anymore, because ostensibly, they all agreed that that was indeed the best course of action.
"Do you remember egoraptor?"
Me, an animator: *cries a single tear*
Sabrina Chaney why cry 🥺 hes fine
@@eparigon I just miss his animations! He's fully devoted to Game Grumps and while I'm glad that he's found success, I love his animation style and wish he would still make shorts of his own. It's tougher than ever now with stuff like the COPPA legislation.
@@hellosabrinachaney I am happy he's at least making it possible for other animators to make money while animating by paying them to animate for the channels projects and music videos. I also like the fan-made animations of Game Grumps moments he and the rest of the gang inspire.
"Name this advertisement "The Failure of Arin Hanson""
@@WeebishSwed hell yeah!
UA-cam don't want to help creators be _good_
They want to teach creators how to be _ad-friendly_
Finally a youtuber who's actually acknowledging the fact that they're working for a corporation
Gotta say as someone making a living (trying) at this... I definitely don’t work for UA-cam or any corporation. That being said it’s a really weird and unique dynamic that I have a hard time finding an analogous comparison to. It’s like part entertainment, part MLM, part .... I don’t know. Lots of things I wish were different. I certainly don’t work FOR a corporation yet I’m completely at the mercy of one, who could “fire” me for any reason... it’s a stressful life. But I genuinely believe in what I do and I definitely don’t see UA-cam as the end game
Some job. No salary, no benefits, no vacation.
@@elijahfordsidioticvarietys8770 like I said, I don’t view it as the end game, more of a stepping stone.
Edit: ok I didn’t say that above but I’m saying it now lol
@@NightDocs it's not as complicated as you make it sound.
You produce for UA-cam, a corporation, they don't necessarily pay you, but they most likely get paid. Either way, you're doing work for their benefit, the people who visit your channel engage with UA-cam, UA-cam benefits.
You are doing work for UA-cam, as simple as that. The only way you aren't is when you no longer upload to UA-cam, and delete your channel.
@@sighduck9789 it would be nice if we didnt live under capitalism but in here the choices are to comply with capitalism or starve and if the only other option is literally just dying then you arent being given a choice. So yea. My man just tryna eat lol
It kills me how creators talk about "The Algorithm" like it's this unknowable Lovecraftian Elder God. We're more than capable of understanding the fundamental laws of an algorithm, but the information required for comprehension is deliberately withheld.
That said, I had never heard of you or your channel before today, and the Great Old Algorithm decided to drop this video on my lap. Not the slightest idea what I'm going to find on the rest of your channel, but I hope it's as analytical and direct as this is. I don't have space for more Patrons at the moment, but consider this an IOU for a friendly kiss.
I owe him a different kind of kiss DX
That's something I had actually been thinking about for a while but couldn't quite express. UA-cam's whole brand I think, is based off of a sort of nonexistence, I think because it's meant to be like TV, just a box that shows you whatever is produced and not care what that is. Of course, that's not true, UA-cams actual brand is a social media network specializing in videos, but that's not what youtube wants anyone to think. Because then their social media network might one day become uncool and another video sharing site could take it's place. UA-cam wants to be the medium and not just a place that holds the medium.
Thanks, Gigantic all-consuming Joel for the lovely content.
Honestly the biggest-brain idea I've heard in a while
Just like capitalism, it’s class relations, and it’s ruling elite. It’s all obscured behind the language of science and “rationality,” and naturalized as a fact of the universe. If you “fail” it’s some deficiency of character or biology on your part, it can’t possibly be the universe’s fault.
@@riz3310 Yeah, I think all dominant systems tend towards that narrative eventually. This system wasn't really made by people, it was a logical consequence of existence and you can't really change it. It wasn't made by people and it can't be changed by people either. It's the status quo and always has been even if we just made it up
a few years ago.
I think you've given this a good name - a "brand of nonexistence"
@@Willowthedruid777I It wasn't a logical consequence of existence, but a consequence of the material conditions. You change the material conditions and you change the system.
Whenever I hear that "audience sees content creators as friends" bit I am reminded of the best way to do propaganda. You just assume your target already thinks in the way you want the propaganda to make them think. Because that's what that bit is there for. To encourage leaning into parasocial relationships.
Incidentally that bit also makes me queezy because that is an immensely creepy assumption and a behavior that I would actively discourage if I ever had an audience acting like that.
Big Joel: *talking about mid roll ads*
*Mid roll ad plays*
He definitely manually placed that ad
I was laughing about the same thing!!
I didn’t get that ad.... has it been demonized in the past month?
@@madyluvsanime1248 I got one! June 26th
MadyLuvsAnime this might be the best typo I’ve ever seen
J. Levi C. It deadass took me 10 minutes to find the typo 😂🤦🏼♀️
I’ve never really considered that I work _for_ UA-cam. Maybe I’m so against the cynicism displayed by UA-cam’s detractors that I miss the manipulation. I suppose I saw the reworking of Creator Studio as an update to meet the ever changing paradigm of UA-cam’s position in the world. But maybe it’s the other way around. Maybe it’s a catalyst for, rather than a reaction to change. Hmmm.
I mean, black people have been trying to tell y'all this but like in IT Chapter 2, you all only listen if we have some weird mind altering drug to help you see exactly what we're talking about. This is a country built upon slavery, for fuck sakes, to be a patriot is akin to being a Confederate, a traitor who fights for enslavement rather than true freedom.
@@abikegavin9641 what are you TALKING about? What does this have to do with the original comment? Did someone delete something you're responding to?
@@silentj624 I think their point is that in a way UA-cam tricked it's creators into working for them under the guise of freedom of creativity (except there is no actual freedom [or limited at least] if you are trying to monetize). Work is wage slavery so.. you're opting into a form of slavery unknowingly.
Genius level control is when you still feel fully autonomous.
We hate the feeling of being told what to do.
It's true skill to manipulate those who feel it was *their* idea.
Is there a video on achieving success by making more videos on the Village People? Because that's the real cornerstone of a good channel imo
I would love to see a Jacob Geller video on the Village People.
Nice to see you here.
I love ur vids broski! Good to see you like big Joel too! You guys should collaborate!
Destroy a small town and cut them off from the rest of the world so you can record them either slowly rebuilding or going insane, either one should be good content.
I love your videos
A thought that occurred to me: another reason we might see such huge difference between the Wendy's video and the Creator Academy videos is access. The Academy videos are UA-cam's way of informing their worker bees about how to behave, and these videos are very open for the public to see. Any one can find them whenever they want. The Wendy's video (corporate training videos in general, this video is clearly available to us) was not made to be widely seen by the public. Usually, you would need to go through the on-boarding process at such a company to see such a video. Do you think there is something to this idea of public availability of these corporate videos? I'm not sure.
I definitely think there's something to that idea. Totally different public relations considerations would go into a those two different types of videos. This is a good observation.
One point is I don't think UA-cam can entirely tell you how to succeed. They can say roughly what they have tuned the algorithm for but a lot of how the algorithm promotes things is basically a black box to them so they can only give rough guidance.
yeah I agree! I thought i mentioned this kind of early on when I said, "measuring the goodness of a video is harder to do than measuring how well a cup of coffee conformed to Wendy's expectations." That said, I find the idea that UA-cam's algorithm is truly a black box, that they couldn't give more specific instructions even if they wanted to, kind of troubling. First, there are apparently hundreds of signals that UA-cam receives in order to rank videos, and I have trouble accepting that none of those refer to the sorts of content UA-cam is looking for, which boxes are most optimal to check. Second, even when UA-cam does very explicitly want something from creators, like that they favor longer videos, they feel the need to couch it in this general, corporate language of "do what you want to do," leading me to think they're extremely cagey about indicating to creators the sorts of things they're looking for.
@@BigJoel They're definitley not as open as they could be. I think part of that is beecause they learned from early on in youtube/google that as soon as you give perfect informatoin about how to improve your popularity people will game the system. The couching is also cowardly but I guess it's part of the brand they're going for; as you say, they don't want you to be their employee, you're an independent creator and these are just helpful tips to market yourself.
@@sethzard People still game the system to the best of their ability though. They hate transparency, if everyone knew the guidelines they wouldn't be able to constantly tweak everything under the hood.
@@BigJoel isn't the point that they aren't demanding things? They give suggestions on ways to make you videos more successful, but don't enforce it. It's up to the creator what they want to do, and if they find an audience in shorter videos, good for them. In a real job if the employee didn't do the equivalent of making long videos, they would be fired, but youtube gives the extra freedom. I guess I just don't see the specific point you were making. Isn't it a good thing that youtube doesn't enforce these things and let's the creators decide how to do their work? In the end be a creators will all ways find ways to make money in New ways, it seems to me that there is a push and pull between creators and youtube on what the most effective way of making content is. The creator finds success, youtube adapts the algorithm, making other users have to adapt as well and so on. Now that I'm writing this I kind of see the problem, youtube is chasing after the way to make the most money, and the creators have to change to catch up, stifling true creativity. This is all coming from someone who has no experience on the business side of youtube, so this is just my best guess.
@@BigJoel "This will please the algorithm, we think." Also just imagine they have a big robot called the algorithm host one of the videos and it just tells creators to steal family guy episodes and how to avoid copyright Id from noticing it.
"We're here to learn to make good videos." No, you're not there to learn how to make videos. You're there to learn how to get as many views and subscribers as possible, which doesn't necessarily translate to video quality. How for example does "posting at the optimal time to maximize views" affect the quality of a video? It doesn't. The video itself would be the same on a tuesday as it would on Sunday evening. Shareability is another example, your video pandering to a wider audience may lead to creating content that's watered down to appease many rather than being a more potent, interesting niche where it can be unique. Why be unique when you can be the same cookie cutter shit that everyone else produces?
good points!
There's one part I want to discuss but please don't take it as negativity: it's just hard for me to add anything to other great points you made. That's how commenting works I guess.
So my gripe here is with "The video itself would be the same on a tuesday as it would on Sunday evening" regarding "posting at the optimal time to maximize views", because I do feel it is part of making a good video:
yes, it doesn't matter if video is self contained or I come to it much later after all the parts of it have been released, but if I am following series and I have to wait for the next part for six months instead of a week, it will affect my viewing experience, right?
I'm not saying that the creator always has a say in that, but it seems like something worth pointing out in the case they do.
@@raymondkertezc364 I agree in a sense, that sure does affect the experience, but I’d argue it doesn’t actually affect the video quality in itself, just how people interact with it. For instance, if someone came in later and watched them all in a row, they would not think the video is worse at all
@@latikatika3112 I feel like I said exactly that...?
This encapsulates my cynicism and skepticism about youtube the platform so well. UA-cam the Platform is trying to pretend it's UA-cam the Community so it doesn't have to take responsibility for the platform's mistakes. Also the new UI for Creator Studio is so stressful and I hate it.
We should stop discussing either UA-cam the platform or UA-cam the community and start talking about UA-cam the corporation
the comments section on this video is good overall but this one in particular is [chef kiss]
7:25 The funny thing is, that I am least interested in these "conversational" videos, like Q&A videos. They are often slow and a bit boring.
Yes, I really find it distasteful for two reasons: first it encourages unhealthy, parasocial relationships between creators and fans, and second it makes a mockery of the idea that UA-cam acts as a platform for art, creativity or whatever: the platform specifically discourages and scorns scripted content, animation and so on in favour of low effort and dragged out conversations, often content that is navel-gazing and focused entirely petty and disposable stuff like reactions to UA-cam drama.
@@cmbeadle2228 For it's less that I find them distasteful; I'm just bored by them. I watch youtube mostly to learn something new or to relax (ASMR), and neither of this is provided by the life story of some creator.
It's totally okay when they tie tidbits of info into their videos, particularly if it has to do with the topic or if it helps me to understand where they're coming from.
But apart from that, I don't really care.
@@cmbeadle2228 It doesn't have to be complex or all encompassing. A simple "what is your favorite video game?", At the end of a gaming video is enough to make it conversational. It's not needed for me but I see that a lot of people are just waiting to post.
Yeah, I've never been a fan of vlogs or q&as. I like a video that shows up with something to say, says it, and then stops. Throwing in the occasional "you guys" (addressing the audience) is fine, but I like videos that make a point and leave.
Yeah, all I really want is 1-2 hour video essays massively overanalyzing media that was never meant to be taken seriously
"If we think we're burned out, how do we get over it?" sounds a lot like "there's no such thing as burnout, you're just lazy, get over it and get to work."
With a heavy helping of "if you feel like you're burned out, then that's really your own fault". It is really quite disgusting if you think about it.
I process burnout by taking a break, relaxing, reading a book, watching anime, playing games, just letting it pass, and reminding myself that I'm doing this rest and relaxation for the sake of productivity and not for my own health and I guess I can't stop dreading going back to work so my boss can tell me how slow I am at the job I'm #2 on the quality assurance board for but none of that matters because I make less money by spending more time servicing one customer's needs thoroughly even though they keep telling me quality assurance is more important ok I CAN'T DO BOTH JIM oh god help me fix my brain please
Though, to be honest, I don't think anyone's denying burnout is real. Rather, it's treated as a roadblock to the process of work rather than an active part of that process that has to happen for the mind to function well. Or a natural, avoidable result of the increase in productivity itself.
@@Junosensei yeah I'm familiar with that.
Except I worked in a factory, so time was strictly limited and I was forced to adapt. It wasn't smooth or easy, and by the end it was still always a conflict between quality and time, but I did adapt a little bit.
"You're one of my best inspectors Adam, but you need to speed up."
I didn't burn out though. It was quality inspection stuff. We metaphorically plugged the holes until the holes themselves were fixed by someone else. And it was always standardized.
I don't know why I didn't burn out, I guess I never considered it was something that could happen. I didn't enjoy it in the first place, so that's probably why. I didn't dread it, most of the time. But I rarely got any satisfaction out of it. And I did want to quit on multiple occasions, but it was my job, and I didn't have any other job opportunities that were any better, mostly worse.
I don't feel like that's what they were even implying.
It's not accusatory, it is just about dealing with a thing that happens.
This isn't about *why* people burn out. That's another subject.
basically, UA-cam uberized the entertainment business.
actually i'd say that uber youtuberized the taxi industry tbh
I actually wish that there was more opportunity for community in the comment section of UA-cam, but I guess we are supposed to be obsessing over our Parasocial relationship du jour. It’s a bit creepy how isolation is built into the design.
orange “community” is interpersonal physical human relationships, not abstractions of them gleaned through fiber and glass.
@@riz3310 I disagree, I think community has more to do with common interests than physical location. Otherwise, we wouldn't have terms like "the black community" to represent black people as a whole in the US.
Riz - I think this a pretty techno-phobic and narrow-minded view of what it means to be a “community”
That's what they want. Forums were peak online community. Ever since then they have broken down our ability to build relationships with people online .
Jesus and now look at tiktok
@@riz3310 "Ok, boomer"
I do enjoy Big Joel’s hair fluidity, the hair should have their own channel
This really reminds me of Uber. Like UA-cam, Uber was originally intended just for carpooling, but now people's livelihoods actually depend on it. The algorithm was made for an era when you could get weird, wacky, and original videos whose creators had no ambitions for fame and success. In a weird way, the people on this platform now conform to the algorithm, rather than the other way around, and the incomes and careers of UA-cam creators are now at stake.
The weird phenomenon that Big Joel points out here is a symptom of a system that has not adapted to its reality. Either you're a high-volume/high-effort content creator or you're just an anonymous uploader, but things get strange when we try to blur the lines between them.
the burnout thing really hits home with school and all. like, we're expected to put out high quality work day after day, participate in classes, do homework, and of course do well in our sports. schools can say they want better mental health but without the attitude of the whole country changing or without systematic changes to the workload/reward expected everyday by the school itself, things won't change. but the school can't change that without losing prestige in the eyes of Colleges™ or grades dropping, even if the students feel better.
Its appalling. There is zero legitamate reason our society needs to be run this way. Capitalism has no morality and it's only job is to make the already filthy rich winners, ever more increasingly wealthy. And that wealth doesn't pop into thin air, oh no, its coming from us, the workers.
Which mean schools are there to teach you how to be an obedient unquestioning producer for them.
Dont get me wrong, LEARNING is very important and some teachers do an excellent job. But if I could give you advice, I would reccomend that you make a habit of digging deeper into things that don't make sense to you, dont be afraid to question authority. It seems you already have a curious and skeptical mind, dont lose it.
Learning independently about politics and history are a great place to start as they are often the most misconstrued in the class room. They and go for primary sources. Notice that things that try to be unbiased often make a value judgment showing oppressive forces as equal to those fighting againstoppression, and that is not actually very fair.
They will tell you that socialism is bad, but what is inherently wrong about workers owning their own labor? They will tell you that the government functions correctly, but how can it do so if the one with the most money wins the race 90% of the time?
Most importantly though, they will tell you the world isn't fair, and it isn't meant to be. They will tell you that people are inherently unkind, and then gaslight you until you believe that about yourself. It will be subtle, but it is the most insidious. If you escape becoming an unkind person, you will be left thinking that you are one of few kind people in the world. This is also not true.
So, your right, the system is unfair and it doesn't have your best interests at heart. But dont be complacent about that, make it your driving force. Work to change it so the people that come after you can have a better shot at life. The world works best when old men plant trees in which shade they will never sit in. And it's never too early to start. You will be in good company.
@@rosemali3022 some points I don't agree with (I don't think valuing happiness that no one will ever cash out is the best way as "The world works best when old men plant trees in which shade they will never sit in" claims, for example), but the second-to-last paragraph made me feel good enough even in itself to give you a like!
“a bit less than usual because you convinced fewer viewers to subscribe” I almost can’t believe UA-cam made something so blatantly toxic like that. Almost.
This video was amazing!! I'm an Anthropologist doing my PhD about the labour and lived experience of UA-cam creators and this was so spot on for an article I just finished titled: "We're all told not to put our eggs in one basket": Uncertainty, precarity and cross-platform labour in the online video industry" 👌
As a therapist whose caseload is mostly people with Antisocial Personality Disorder, who has had clients who meet criteria for psychopathy - YES THEY HAVE HEARTS WTF IS WRONG WITH YOU LADY.
Well, there is a lot wrong with Kati Morton. She has some good content but she's also done some... well, let's just say not so good videos and such.
As someone who has absolutely no experience or degree in any form of medicine, i can inform you that having a heart is almost definitely required for survival, and if they did not have hearts they would almost certainly die
@@zenosol234 lol don't believe everything you read on the internet, humans don't require hearts, you can easily replace it with a car battery and things work out just fine
@@li0nna I mean, you don't need a human heart, or even an organic one, but I'm 98% sure I need more than just a car battery to keep these fluids pumping.
And because it's in my head now: "Here are Humanity Inc, we produce natural, non-gmo, free-range, carcinogen free hearts with minimal processing to ensure your health and holistic well-being."
@@fallingpetunias9046 yeah i heard that before also I'm maybe too tired to understand the last bit but i don't understand the last bit
“Take a load off! Let us place your ads for you! People love it when we place - AD BREAK”
Did anyone else get the ad strategically placed at 9:54?
"Take a load off!"
"Let the algorith"
*ad plays*
"Let the algorithm take over"
Let the algorithm take over
Let the algorithm take over
Let the algorithm take over
The automatic midroll add interrupting your conversation about automatic midroll ads was tres magnifique *Chef's kiss*
Top tier as always, Average-sized Joel.
How mean.
Why would you say something so controversial, yet so brave?
What if the average size is relatively big 🤔
I heard he's cousins with regular sized Rudy
Anyone reading this, don't get it twisted. Google is an advertisement agency. That is their business. Every search you do is mined for advertising possibilities. Every video is checked to see if it will be useful for ad placement. This is their game. They're not a technology group. And at this point, neither is facebook, instagram or any of these other 'social media services'. They're all literally ad agencies under the banner of social media or technology group, but in reality, those are the secondary aspects to the company and simply the tool they use to be ad agencies.
This is what silicon valley loves to call 'innovation', which is basically taking something already known and already exists and figuring out how to monetize it.
Man, this really got my gears turning. Do Patreon and Kickstarter have secret algorithms too?
any site that has to choose what stuff to show you has an algorithm of some sort, but it's less of a factor on patreon because it's not really where you go to find new things.
kickstarter though, their algorithm matters a lot and should probably be investigated further. what the site decides to show directly influences what projects get funded.
@@user-fg8ux8zo6w please seek therapy and stop using 8chan or gab or whatever convinced you to act this way
@@brimple the ultimate youtube comment fantasy is convincing someone to delete their bad comment by mocking them. i'm at the tip top of maslow's hierarchy of needs rn
@@brimple pretty sure the algorithm automatically made their comment invisible for saying something anti-Semitic
@@user-fg8ux8zo6w oh... screenshotting a comment like this is like taking a selfie with your shit
I literally got at ad right in the middle of you saying the word "ads" at 9:53. The irony was not lost on me.
I’m so happy this video introduced me to the Wendy’s hot drink commercial
I'm not. I can't get it out of my head now.
Cephalopod it’s a bop tbh
Totally meta video, I congratulate you for blowing my mind...criticizing UA-cam tips while following most of them, excellent add placement, fairly conversational tone, telling us how UA-cam is manufacturing consent while we participate, thereby consenting...it’s like that short story that I never read when somebody gets hanged, but in the split moment while it’s happening he’s considering all the possibilities. I mean, we’re all getting hanged by UA-cam, Amazon, Facebook, and Apple, but we’ve got a second to consider what’s happened as we are sacrificed to the internet machine.
Somebody make a compilation of every time Joel dramatically says "Why?"
Also, make one of every time he says, "no".
@@jaschabull2365 These are both very good suggestions.
I'm a software engineer, so I perhaps have more insight into "the algorithm" than most people: so I can say with some confidence the reason YT doesn't tell people what signals and such they should look into is because... they actually don't know. I've always found it fascinating that the algorithm is basically this cold, distant magic that no one can really know or control, and in many ways it really is like a force of nature. You can read some general advice from its behavior, like the fact consistent updates lead to more views, but that's an emergent property, not something YT hard-coded into it (presumably).
The only thing YT actually sets is the goals or metrics: more views, more view time, more ad revenue; demonetize videos ad providers don't want to advertise on. All of these are strategic decisions some human somewhere made, yes; but how the algorithm determines a lot of it is just magic. Like yes, some human person at some point decided that only certain videos should show up on the Home tab, or your Subscriptions list or in your notifications; but which ones is not decided by any one person, only by the algorithm: the algorithm looks at what videos get the most clicks and subsequent view time, and then shows you those videos. But no human being knows how the algorithm does it, no one can tell you what kind of video to make to get chosen by the algorithm, beyond very vague and general tips, like you see in these corporate videos.
Except when you use google now you will only find mainstream sources. For eg, anyone who reads this needs to search "Palestinian News" in the engine of your choice, the goal being to find a Palestinian News Outlet. Good luck 🍀
www.thedailybeast.com/how-youtube-pulled-these-men-down-a-vortex-of-far-right-hate
www.nbcnews.com/news/world/trump-admin-gave-green-light-nuclear-permits-saudi-arabia-after-n1013826
dailycaller.com/2016/03/02/this-little-known-trump-soros-connection-will-surprise-you/
Bullshit, I don't buy what you're selling. I didn't just fall off a turnip truck. You sound an awful lot like a UA-cam shill. Nice try though.
@@jasont.9559 that's a communist appeal to popularism 🤣🙏
@@uncannyvalley2350 Ehh, I'm not a software engineer but I know stats and enough about how self learning AI work to know that while you might be able to weigh certain flags or factors with the intent of artificially inflating or deflating the prevalence of certain links, it will also make the algorithm preform worse in it's primary function. In other words, any changes in the algorithm to promote a certain agenda will come at the expense of it's primary goal, which is to put as many ads as possible in front of as many people as possible.
So the first question you have to ask yourself when considering whether an algorithm is biased is to ask "will pushing X agenda make Y algorithm-based company more money than selling additional adds". Because of course a companies primary concern is money.
@@discipleofbolas oh, so did you look for Palestinian News sites, or are you equivocating based on your own limited experience?
Look up Operation Talpiot and Unit 8200 some time, or look into Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epsteins connections to Promis software and the new 911 platform. You dont know what you dont know
Recently I was trying to put into words why it would be so difficult for people on UA-cam to make and join a union like other workers, and it's only after watching this video that it's because it has the same struggles as any other gig economy, which is actually kinda obvious in hindsight
More typical corporate structures have gotten wise and cleverly obfuscated the true dynamics of hiring and advancement in similar ways. By the time you are through training, you've likely been administered a personality test under seemingly innocuous but ultimately false pretenses so that data can be used to influence the opportunities that come your way. They perform advice in the same way UA-cam does, essentially instructing you how to act without justification and pretending the system behind that decision does not exist. It's exhausting. Just found your channel but you are becoming a fast favorite. Love the videos!
YT creator academy: do what your fans want
Jack Saint: Here's how I think about bestiality in manga.
i mean... is that not what the fans want?
His fans specifically asked him to cover Beastars due to how it tackles am anthropomorphic animal society in a mature manner.
for fucks sake i was about to go to bed but now i've ended up rewatching beastars because of you
I don't know this Jack Saint, but with what you wrote, for some reason, I imagine he talks like Mr. Dink from Doug.
@@fallingpetunias9046 He makes similar media analysis videos but is a bit more politically explicit than Joel.
His breakout video essay was this: ua-cam.com/video/iIdbLUm-ez8/v-deo.html
The bestiality in manga video is here: ua-cam.com/video/aKSpEOMHvIU/v-deo.html
The irony of an ad playing right in the middle of Joel explaining midvideo ad placement, like in the middle of his sentence.
Because, what a great way to point out how much I actually hate UA-cam adds and their often terrible placements
Man, you putting the midroll ad right when you start talking about UA-cam wanting to place the midroll ads for you is brilliant, if it was actually intentional
It is too brilliant to be a unintentional. Even better was his self restraint to not address it in the video.
Exactly when you mention of strangeness of 'increase your viewer experience" by allowing youtube to automatically place mid-roll ad, the ad come up. Good stuff.
I think a big thing to keep note of, is that "successful" on UA-cam, is not the same thing as making "good content."
Granted *someone* is enjoying it if it's successful. But I still wouldn't describe toy review channels, reactions, or even the vast majority of let's plays to be "good content."
Some or all of that is subjective however.
when I tried watching the "creator academy" videos (back when they were originally released), they immediately rubbed me the wrong way and I couldn't quite figure out why. I couldn't even get through the first one, they just seemed "off" to me, like watching them made me uncomfortable lol. You pretty much perfectly articulated exactly what's "off" about them I think. Well, the non-existence thing and the fact that they pretty much only feature "normie" type creators - from like an ~A Lister of UA-cam ~ upper class that exists.
Google uses the same obfuscation techniques in search. They'll say "hey, this will help you rank better" and won't get into the specifics as to *why* the advice will help you rank better.
They are masters at walking the fine line between purposely confusing and accidentally confusing. It's pretty impressive actually.
Apparently we have very similar voices, because at about 0:10 when you said "a series of tutorials," Siri came on for no reason.
14:20 I got anew job at a hospital late last year. I used to work in medical research before. During my orientation at the job I was wondering about how it felt to be on the opposite end of corporate propaganda when before, I was helping create it. I feel like this moment summarizes how I felt pretty well.
How did you learn to create corporate propaganda? E.g. Degree in ‘public relations’
J River I have a degree in biochemistry, but my undergraduate research was on infection control and public health
10:00 I think a reason why youtube might favour automatic ads is that a lot of watchers probably feel more goodwill towards videos that don't 'feel' as monetised. So if the ad is just there, the viewer feels like youtube put an annoying ad there, but if the content creator specifically made an ad-break, then the viewer feels like the person they're watching is selling out and trying to make money, which makes them dislike them and makes them less likely to watch their stuff in the future.
Obviously, they're monetising it the same amount, but making it feel incidental I think makes people subliminally more positive about it.
How does the viewer tell the difference
You do such an unbelievably good job helping me understand why these videos feel uncanny to me and make me uncomfortable. You have a wonderful way with words, the moment of you saying UA-cam was presenting itself as a force of nature was such an 'aha!' moment.
"Why doesn't UA-cam just act more like Wendy's..."
-out of context Big Joel
More bacon
The mid-roll playing over the discussion of mid-rolls is *chefs kiss*
Your explanation of why UA-cam needs to be so subliminal about its messaging reminds me a lot of scientific academia.
The idea of science as the end all be all of rational thinking and the highest of ideals to reach for really obfuscate that it is all being done through the medium of academia and in fact the structure has a complete monopoly on what is considered “legitimate” science.
And so just like creators on UA-cam individuals scientists dedicate almost every aspect of their lives towards succeeding in science as it is shaped by academia. And just like creators here they often become incredibly burnt out (e.g. me) but always end up blaming themselves and sometimes being blamed by others as not smart enough or “just not built for science” and hardly ever consider giving any blame to the structure they are embedded in that asks them to deny their needs and humanity in order to best perform. All this because it is trying its darnedest and often succeeding at being invisible.
That's interesting, but there really isn't another way that we know of to do things? Science is all about empiricism. If you don't manage to find results that you can reproduce and that anyone can reproduce, in similar circumstances, the knowledge you'd obtain would be extremely hard to define or understand...
The entire point of the scientific method is to ensure that whatever is found can be used to further knowledge (and sometimes people will correct themselves). Science is really hard, specially because there's so many people and that it's a job (where it used to be something people practiced fron passion before), but I can't really see how the scientific method could be one-upped.
I also don't think you should blame academia for those things. Academia is what is used to criticize systems, and that's practically all it is. Epistemology, for example, could (and probably has) raised very valid critiques of science and how it operates.
Why does UA-cam even have like counters? Like the function of the like button should be the viewer telling the algorithm that they want more of this, it should be personal to improve the experience of that one viewer. Feedback works much better in the comments, what does a like even mean? Views kind of make sense because it shows how many people have seen it but I feel like the only meaningful feedback is comments.
But then at the same time I can just see that being exploited, if UA-cam pivoted to comment focus, there would still be creators finding a way to make people comment nothings.
I think subscribing can be meaningful too as it shows whether you are gaining fans rather than just idle views but the value in that depends on whether you're aiming for concurrent views or if you want to pull very different audiences for each video.
I guess the problem with criticising UA-cam is I really don't know how to improve. I guess the only method I can construct is for it not to be a monopoly so we can see competitors trying different methods and innovating in a survival of the fittest type of way. But it's hard to see monopolies not happen on the internet when it's what the internet is built on
People are already commenting nothings to drive up "engagement". So I don't think UA-cam hiding likes by default would change that much. (Also, just because you couldn't see them doesn't automatically mean The Algorithm™ doesn't take them into account.)
no one likes to talk about how youtube is exploitative towards workers because everyone wants their chance in the spotlight but in general it’s still workers working and being exploited unfortunately
UA-cam is the blueprint for 21st century capitalist exploitation. We went from feudal lords who owned you, to factory lords who made you come to their factories to work for them, to an invisible corporate entity that makes you think you work for yourself when working for them.
content creators are not UA-cam employees lmao
@@buttlicker7670 Indeed. They are independent contractors. So basically employees with less rights.
@@storozhevoy7551 Right, so go work at Wendy's if you want labor rights
@@buttlicker7670 you realize they are talking about the progression of a systemic issue. You are suggesting a, likely temporary, solution for only one person.
through the lens of history i find your hair disclaimer so quaint and endearing
thanks joel. one of my pet peeves on youtube is when an ad plays halfway through a point, sentence or sometimes even word. infuriating.
This was so good Joel!
I love how an add started playing mid-sentence as you were talking about youtube placing ads for the creators. rly shows why that is actually a bad idea, and I keep seeing that happening in other videos as well
if you pick the time for the ad yourself you can do commercial break vignettes, or at least place it some where fitting for the pacing of your video, because when the ads just pop up out of nowhere in the middle of sentence, that's just fucking annoying an completely throws the viewer off
I have no idea why most creators don't decide where to place ads. There's a youtuber I watch that always announce an ad break, and it surprised me how much it lessens my annoyance towards the ads.
Not everyone can get that revenue....so why make all the effort if they get demonetized? They cover this at 9:20
Maybe because they know that people doesn't really watch most of the videos, but doing something else while listening to it, so placing an ad out of the blue ensures that they aren't reaching for the remote to turn down the volume, since ads are louder.
also, if an ad is randomly placed in the middle of a sentence, you're going to want to keep watching rather than pausing and coming back at a later time like with a DVD or a book, or "flipping the channel" to something else because you've reached a natural end. it's all about those extra few seconds of Watch Time
@@inkasaraswati7625
Watching this gives me an idea why: Because UA-cam wants to shove in a ton of ads into every video as they jolly well please, and tries to convince UA-camrs they want them to as well. And for a lot of UA-camrs, it apparently works.
I really like this. I like this because this isn't just a youtube phenomenon. In-fact it points to a larger systemic trend within liberalism that strongly encourages action to the point that it essentially forces you into that action. The language is softer, but the end product is the same as being bullied. In many ways I would even argue that this is how capitalist liberal society obfuscates themes that really start to look fascist in nature. I don't want to suggest that Liberalism in the west is the same as say Italian fascism in the early portion of the 20th century, but damn don't they share some faint similarities. Don't the results look similar, but the tactics are different?
The UA-cam example is so on point, because in many ways, UA-cam starts to feel like a state-like entity. You don't have to use it of course, but it's the biggest video website on the web and it's heavily implied that at some point you will use it. I mean at least be sent something by a friend. You can watch a video, but what if it's flagged as 18+. Well you'll have to make an account and submit your age. Doesn't this look like applying for a drivers license or a social insurance number? As a creator, don't you have limitations on what you can post? You can't upload pornography, or violence, or else your account may be suspended or removed. Does this not mimic the same action the state would incur upon someone? Fining them, or jailing them? You spend this video acknowledging how youtube treats its workers. How they have a preference on how these workers interact and labour. Workers don't have to make videos in these ways, but obviously UA-cam chooses to promote a specific method. I feel like this really mimics how we labour in general in society. If i'm on the dole, choosing to not work for 9 months, every time i collect a unemployment cheque, do they not ask me if i'm taking steps to become employed? If i'm a content creator, does youtube remind me that I haven't posted a video in a while? I wonder...
Spot on.
Styles of 2020: Quarantine Hair
Damn you are quickest gunslinger in breadtube!
@@breno855 😂😂
So many of these videos you show clips of remind me of training videos for the corporate places I've worked. All it's missing is the part about "we don't need to unionize, we're a family" lol
I'm commenting to increase your engagement metric so the algorithm likes you.
14:26 UA-cam, like Amazon, has simply recognized that overwork coupled with high employee turnover is more profitable than humane work schedules and low employee turnover, since the hiring and training process is essentially automated/outsourced to the employee.
I'm glad the hurricane recommended me this video. I feel like the answer to your final question on why UA-cam does this is that they don't want to pay creators as employees, simply contractors.
This is quite the oddity. I went to the Original Creator Academy is Los Angeles back when it was a series of in-person classes and it was a genuinely helpful experience. There had heads of departments teach lessons on back-end stuff, you were paired with similar channels so that you might collaborate with them, and you were even given a little workbook to help you suss through the details of running a channel. This was pre-midrolls and before the acknowledgement of creator burnout, circa 2014. The best part was we all got to ask the heads of these departments frank questions about why things were the way that they were on UA-cam and we got honest answers. It almost makes me miss the simple days when all we had to work about were spurious ContentID claims and predatory Multi-Channel Networks.
My own take on this while "constantly shoving analytics in your face and telling you to optimize every last thing, but also telling you to take self-care time" is similar to how a chain pizza place treats it's drivers. Anyone whose ever worked for one of 'The Big Three' as they're called can tell you that you get a talk from your training bosses along the lines of "we're going to load you up with three, four, and maybe even five orders at a time, but don't ever speed or hop fences... you absolutely MUST make sure all the orders get in on time and that all customers are satisfied with your oven-to-doorstep times... but don't ever speed, wink wink, nudge nudge" It's more of a C.Y.A. strategy that's employed by the bosses that flies in the face of the reality of the task that the employees are given. You can't help but notice that pretty much every big UA-camr that makes it big who has facial hair tends to go grey before they're even out of their 30s.
As for the nature of their opacity, I'd chalk that up to 2 things. 1) unlike Wendy's, we're not "employees" of UA-cam so says our tax forms so they can't really make us do anything in that sense. couple that with the nature of creating videos and while it'd be nice to have uniform content with perfectly in-line creators like we were all our own little marvel movie directors, it would result in a multi-billion dollar platform filled with nothing but videos that were stale before they even went live. 2) is that we are never, ever going to get a clear idea of what the algorithm does or how it works. The second the algorithm is known is the second it becomes exploited by literally everyone. See ElsaGate, React Channels, ReplyGirls, and attempts to abuse the video response system. The only way for the algorithm to work to everyone's benefit is to have no one truly know what to do if they want to gain its favor.
Dang, I just wrote a 3-paragraph essay reply instead of working on my own videos. What am I doing with me life.
*The thing with UA-cam, is that Google doesn't **_really_** know what it's doing.*
Oh it knows what it wants, and it certainly tries to guess how to get there, but it constantly fails. "How is that possible with a massive corporation?!"
How is it possible that a search giant with all the metrics and data at its fingertips is not a sales and delivery giant like Amazon? Despite its massive data vaults, not a cloud hosting juggernaut like Amazon and Microsoft? It was an Online Office progenitor, but Microsoft who came in much later still considered the favourite? Not a conference calling master despite having multiple performance-optimized apps? ...this can go on for a really long time and smarter people than me analysed Googles continuous stumbling.
Google comes up with strategies to improve its own situation, mostly by experimenting a lot and seeing what sticks. Google would like you to think that it's more in control of its platform's future than it really is.
I'd say Google is running on sheer inertia from the 2000s and early 2010s.
@@nerobernardino88 tbh they haven't had a genuinely successful product since then. The closest would probably be Google Assistant and that's more just Google Search with a different interface.
Not to mention the products that were outright disasters like Google Glass.
Probably their issue is that they often waste too much time in stupid concepts and/or assume too many incompetent people... It feels like Google and UA-cam are still such giants only because of inertia from their initial success
How much Google (Alphabet) may succeed in the future is unknown, but it will certainly continue to struggle for a long time yet:
Despite all the well-deserved dunking, we must not forget that Google still managed to establish an all but complete browser monopoly with Chrome and that Android is present on 70% of mobile devices (according to online statcounter).
Absolutely cackled when your midroll ad interrupted your discussion of midroll ads. Flawless comedic execution, and absolutely proved your point that UA-cam is placing ads to serve itself, not creators or their videos.
It would be interesting to see a video specifically about the relationship of UA-cam's selective pressures and the parasocial relationship issues mentioned by PhilosophyTube
You should watch StrucciMovies fake friends videos if you liked olly's take. They disagree on the subject but Shannon's work on those videos is honestly amazing.
@@dccalling5960 The Existentialist Horror of Jake Paul by Big Joel is a good case-study. You don't even have to leave the channel.
Too bad Philosophy Tube sucks ass
> youtube is an incredibly social platform
missing a para there youtube, that's an important bit
Very much so
I think the biggest problem truly is that there is no hard and fast formula to UA-cam success. You can understand the algorithm but if it was an exact science everyone would succeed. Great video!
The algorithm also needs comments, even if they are devoid of meaning.
Really? Damn I feel useful!
the mid point ad in the middle of you talking about mid point ad, perfect and only good use ever 😂👌
I used to be a professor. At a university you've probably heard of.
You should be a professor.
A professor writing fragments. tsk tsk.
What's wrong with fragments?
@@tcritt its a perfectly intelligible transcription of oral speech patterns. id trust an alleged professor over some condescending pedant
@@thesnorg1442 Who's the pedant? Is it the guy gently ribbing someone or the person replying "weeeell, aaaactually" to a jokey comment? (Hint: it's you)
@@tcritt sorry. your joke was hilarious
"Let us place your ads f-midroll ad-or you"
Did I even see what you just did there?
The algorithm that has no idea what its doing put an ad when you were talking about ads ; look at how blasé I am at this, it's incredible.
I mean are we at all surprised? The biggest people on this site have the exact same style of video. UA-cam props them up and does not promote new or smaller channels anymore.
Watching this place evolve since the beginning has been a fascinating example at how capitalism fucking sucks
The mid roll ad placement was so well placed to further his point. Well done
I can't be the only one who got a mid-roll ad at 9:53 exactly ... lol was that deliberate (forgive me I'm on someone else's laptop it doesn't have Adblock I GET IT)
Tomfish3000 I got it exactly as he was saying “let us place... (Ad) .... our ads for you.” It was too wierd man!
From other comments, many people did. Pure genius, and then he doesn't talk about it in the actual video, making it even better.
As a small creator in this platform I think that you spitted some hard truths about how there’s a constant pressure from UA-cam’s part to keep growing constantly and that can feel very jarring. I make musical content and can’t adhere to their model content for the very nature of what I currently make. But I have learned to keep a cool head and not stress over analytics and such. I prefer viewing as me sharing my passion with the world first and foremost and growing and hopefully monetizing second. You’ve given me a lot of think with this one, great video as always!
Every UA-camr needs to see this before starting to make videos.
The mid-rolls chunk really got me. Especially when the vid’s only mid-roll occurred not just at an awkward spot, but when Biggie Joel was _in the middle of a word_ .
There definitely needs to be some kind of follow up to this where someone discusses the impact mental health the way the UA-cam Studio (and social media more generally) has on the mental health of its users.
the ad placement was absolute gold thank u very much mr big joel
There have been multiple romps with Joel or Joelventures in the recent past and quite frankly I'm ecstatic.
I love how you incorporate the mid role ad in the video. One of the best parts in the video.
You have quite the skill to put into words things we know but can't express.
I loved that you got cut off by an ad while talking about ads