Tar Offends BIPOC Pan-gendered Person During Lecture | Tar Movie Clip
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- Опубліковано 3 лют 2023
- While guest lecturing composer students at Julliard, Tar (Cate Blanchett) offends a BIPOD (Black, Indigenous, People of Color) pan-gendered person.
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"Ufortunately the architect of your soul appears to be social media". FACTS
Says the older generation flailing away as they lose power and influence. Their status quo culture slightly changing triggers them to no end.
I gasped when she said that 😂
I think this is maybe the least villainous thing she does in the whole film to be honest - she's brusque and abrasive, yes, but you can tell how serious and thoughtful she is about her art, and she's not afraid to confront 'modern attitude' the way it sometimes needs to be confronted.
This scene is interesting because I think it represents Lydia as a whole. There's dedication, intelligence and prestige. She knows what she's talking about and she is good at navigating the world of music. But then, there's her fatal flaw. She is challenged by a student who is just as stubborn and unwilling to listen as she is. She tries gently at first. She tries to wow, to spar with her ideas. Then when that fails?
What does she do?
She humiliates him. She used her authority as the teacher and the position on the student to reinforce her authority to grind him into the dirt
@@scoutpark5230I think it has less to do with her overall arc and more to do with the writer inserting his critique of certain aspects of cultural leftistism
@@alecs5112 more like it's the view of the sane majority than it is cultural leftism
@@tutumazibuko2510 Lol you honestly think critical race theory is view of the “sand majority”? Lol ok
Yess⭐
I love how he accuses Bach of a misogynistic life for having 20 kids in wedlock, and when confronted, the first thing he does is call her a misogynistic slur.
Is having 20 kids out of wedlock misogynistic though?
@@GigaChadh976 more pertinent is the variable that we are talking about the late 1600's - early 1700's...not frigging 2023. These people are insufferable
She calls their artistic preferences an "allergy" then humiliates them in front of a class, all while exploiting young women for sex. I don't think a single use of the word "bitch" is worse than how she treats people, including women.
@@jaycejohnson6846 that doesn't change the fact that the logic she uses in this scene is entirely sound. The fact that she happens to be favoured by the seperation of art and artist doesn't affect that. Hell, it enhances it if anything.
@@bentwineham1986 You're saying that because she's self-interested in protecting her own power, that makes her right? I guess that could be considered "sound logic," if you happen to be an authoritarian.
the fascinating irony of this scene is that her insistence on separating the art from the artist contradicts her own inability to separate the discussion from her desire to absolve herself. Amazing movie.
When you get to the top, you become desperate to protect the powerful, no matter how terrible they are. You want to be untouchable too. That is the status quo, and she embraces it completely.
what?? I don't get this comment.. when is she unable to separate what discussion? what are you talking about specifically
@@pkliskiki1800when she picks the cellist based off the fact she is an attractive woman, (the silly criteria she is making fun of here), she is being hypocritical and she actually isnt above it all like she acts like
Very punkt kontrapunkt eh
She was robbed this year. Her best performance by a mile.
relax, she won 2 oscar already, her talent is proven, she not underrate what so ever, let Michelle Yeoh Have her moment.
She definitely did. Identity politics has invaded its head way too much for us to believe that Academy wouldn’t ever give precedence to merit. There’s no way Michelle Yeoh performance better than Blanchett’s masterclass of acting in TAR.
@@rics1883 cope and seethe about it. Yeoh is just better.
@@blurdreamer Michelle Yeoh was indeed great, but Blanchett's performance was just objectively better. One of the greatest performances of the decade so far, I'd say.
@@rics1883 I don't think it was because of identity politics. I think the voters just got really excited about Everything Everywhere All at Once (and justifiably so!), and somewhat sloppily voted for it for everything.
Everyone calling Lydia the villain, so what? Villains are allowed to have moments of rational thought and compelling argument. In any case, she’s absolutely right in this scene. This kid is profiling the founders of classical music based on their race, gender, and sexual orientation, and argues that they should be discounted mainly for that reason. Lydia is merely putting him in his place.
This is precisely why identity politics makes people so stupid. Why focus on the merit of the argument itself when you can just pick the 'easy' and extremely erroneous way of discrediting it by simply attacking the person making it? It's like no one has nuance or even learns about logical fallacies in school anymore.
he is not arguing that they be discounted. he literally said "i'm not into bach," stating his personal preference.
Around 3:20 mark the man says: White, Cis, Male. Not my thing. So yes the man in this scene is in fact profiling Bach based off his race, sex, and gender. He can say it’s his preference all he wants, but if a white student refused to listen and analyze the works of Aretha Franklin, James Browns, Ray Charles, Louis Armstrong, Michael Jackson, Jimi Hendrik, Whitney Houston, ect… and said white student let it slip that a reason for this was because of their race/sex than he would rightfully be getting called out for profiling and would most definitely be called a Racist/Sexist.
@@adeotosamuel7629no he isn’t. He is disregarding the whole of tonal music because Bach and the ones who followed him - many women included - don’t fit his gender identity issues. (The Icelandic composer he likes is an atonality musician) What he is doing,from a musical standpoint, is of the utmost, utter musical ignorance and short sight.
@@adeotosamuel7629 Yopur sole statement is invalid and disingenuous.
If we eliminate every artist who had questionable morals and/or habits, we would have no artists to aspire to
Thank you 👏🏽
It's also possible to bring that point across to a student without making it so highly personal. They're far more likely to take your argument to heart that way.
She did her own argument a disservice there. Not to mention, she undermines her logical points in that scene throughout the rest of the film. 😄
Yes.
@@Jimmy1982Playlists These kind of students are narcissism. They need to be brought down to earth. She made her point very clearly and very logically, and he had a tantrum because he doesn't like the truth and can't defend his opinion, which is the REAL reason he got mad.
Actually we would be left with almost all 31 seasons of the Joy of Painting with Bob Ross
A couple of days ago I was teaching a photoshop class, and when I told my student to select a 'skin' color, he told me "saying that is racist." I felt so taken aback and irritated by that comment, because I'm trying to teaching him how to illustrate on the computer, and he's so worried about political correctness that he ignores the point of what I'm trying to teach him. I'm hardly a racist, my boyfriend is a black man and I'm Mexican. It's so damn irritating that many students now take classes with their swords drawn, ready to correct their teachers, rather than trying to learn something.
Maybe in that interaction there was a lesson for you both
@@pretendingToBe explain your comment further, please.
Curious, by "skin" colour were you referring to the colour of a specific person's skin in an image, any colour that might be a human skin tone or did you want them to specifically select mean that pinkish-beige hue as the default "skin colour" without reference?
The idea that referring to "skin colour" is racist comes from things like the fact that a box of crayons may have a single shade (never brown) dubbed as skin coloured as if only white people count, but that student may have taken such a complaint out of context without internalising WHY it's bad.
I'm curious as to why you think the student called you racist? Based on what you said, he just said a statement is racist. Which. Idk. It's a goofy things to do on their part because unless you said it in a weird way, they should clearly know what context you said that in.
Is there something else they said? Or did they say it in a certain way?
Isn't it kind of strange to extrapolate immediately based on that and start bringing in the stuff about your boyfriend? Just like how a single racist statement shouldn't be used to extrapolate in an entire person, surely your boyfriend has more value than his blackness and how having a black partner demonstrates anti racism. If the student was out of the line by focusing on the political correctness of it, then what are you internally doing by immediately using your partner's race this way?
Seems kind of dehumanizing of him and yourself imo. But I'm only going off of what you revealed about the situation, intentionally or not
@Hoberpopkin And it’s also completely possible that this is the entire truth just as she said it. We don’t know how young or immature the kid was. “Choose a skin color” can be provocative to an impressionable mind that has been impressed upon.
Why would you even join a classical music class if this was your perspective?
Sometimes you gotta learn the rules first to break them which may have been his aim if he really was so against it. Still though yeah idk how you go to an art school and then get upset when they bring up a prominent artist
@@KittyPieVibesnah his aim was to show off how much he thought he knew better which a hallmark of people who focus on their identity first instead of what that identity is.
Kid played some mediocre piece that was probably done better by the artists who created it. Mainly because he wanted to show he was more cultured than the old white men.
Then he had the gall to act offended when Tar called how his stupid approach was
@@KittyPieVibesyeah, learn the rules to break them, but Max was ouright refusing to learn, I would say there's a difference between "I'll be better than Bach" and " I'm too good to liste to Bach"
"The architect of YOUR soul is Social Media".......sadly too true for so many.
This film is brilliant and Cate Blanchett is amazing. Tar deserved what came to her. She did indeed groom a student and drove a girl to suicide. So, her 'bashing cancel culture' and 'wokeness' might have its somewhat valid points-but what's interesting is she wasn't able to own up to what she did. She got upset because she got caught. Like so many quote 'cancelled' artists. So the film is neither for or against wokeness and cancel culture-rather it uses it as a fascinating narrative device that the audience needs to decipher.
This movie is basically just Whiplash but with classical music
@J.A. Flynn- Author, At last, a sober and rationally considered vision of this film. Thank you. I'm only going to ask you, J.A., to eat a few more meals a day --- otherwise, the beach and swimwear will be out.
Tar hardly "drove" her to suicide. For whatever reason, Tar ruined her career. No jury would find Tar culpable in any way for some disturbed person's own act. And it's more nuanced than "she got caught" but rather her own behavior led to her own undoing. Her biggest mistake was not naming Francesca to the new conducting position Tar herself created after rotating the current conductor. And she did it solely because Francesca disobeyed her by not removing all her correspondence after the girl died. People in great power have a tendency to miscalculate the loyalty of their toadies, especially when they've been hanging carrots in front of them only to pull the carrots away.
@@francismonroe969u gotta be trolling
@@heyheytaytay but it’s not like she ever intended to give it to her anyway. She was just manipulating everyone to get what she wanted and using the fact that she was admired and respected as protection
What makes this scene so effective, aside from being a masterfully directed 10+ minute one take shot, is that it’s essentially a boiled down summary of the movie.
If we eliminate every artist who offends our sensibilities, we might as well not do anything related to art. It’s not even about divorcing art from artists, but understanding that art itself derives from the flaws of its very human creators to try and elevate to a higher plane of expression. Bach’s actions could harm individuals if he exerts his power on them, but Bach’s music is just music that has deeply influenced generations of composers. To simply cover your ears and ignore its existence is to deny yourself an opportunity to learn. And even if it’s not your thing, you should have a properly formed opinion on why rather than saying “as a _____, I feel I can’t relate.” That’s like saying as a white person, I can’t enjoy the many amazing pieces of music composed by other non-white artists.
Is Lydia being extreme in this scene in exposing the student’s closed mindedness? Probably, but I’ve seen professors discuss these kinds of points. And most of them aren’t trying to be jerks. They’re just trying to push and challenge your views to hopefully expand them. It’s then up to you to be willing to try, and it’s totally ok if after all of that you still don’t like it. You can then at least say it’s just “not for you” and people would respect that.
Love the art but not the man, but be eager to comprehend where his art derives from. You explained it all too well.
Thanks for sharing
I thought the point of this scene is to expose Lydia's hypocrisy. She ridiculed this man for elevating his morals over Bach's musical genius, but then in the next scene Lydia does something similar when she elevates Olga's beauty over her competitor's cello talent.
In the end, he was honest and ridiculed, while Lydia was dishonest, and self-destructive.
@@ingridndrewmar2504 🎯🎯🎯💯🙏🏼 _Beautifully_ put, great point! This scene has, unsurprisingly (given the political climate), become something of a Rorschach test for audience members... it is FAR more complicated than so many see it, which is why I respect Todd Field so much. It's possible in a given scene for multiple characters to be right at any given time... it's also possible to be logically right and still be a total _d!_ 😆
@@ingridndrewmar2504 She can be a hypocrite and still correct in her point.
Tar is not entirely right. She chose a hot cellist to be a soloist instead of more competent ones. So Tar is profiling people and doing the same thing she accuses her student of.
No she isn’t
Everyone who voted agreed that this cellist should solo without any of them knowing who was who. In the case of when she picked her to join the orchestra you're right tho bc she knew it was her playing
I think that’s the point of the scene, Tar makes a whole scene about separating the art from the artist, but she herself mix her personal life with the orchestra, she can’t separate these aspects
Yes she IS right in THIS scene. And the whole point of it within the context of the story, is that soon enough SHE will be judged, not for her skills, for immoral behaviour. This scene IS the whole point of the film.
the brilliance in here is that at this point we're not aware of her own wrongdoings (destroying a young women's career for example) so we don't know that the idea of "separating the person from the artist" favors her terrible practices and habits. what she says here definitely makes sense. but it's impossible to ignore how those ideas make her abuse of power possible, or at least facilitate it.
at the same time, it did make me sad to see her talent wasted at the end of the movie, even though she did such terrible things. such an interesting debate for our times.
so true
I love how the writer's intent was to make a villain, but she's just too objectively correct for me to see her as one in this scene.
If that's what you think the writer was trying to do with that scene you are severely lacking in media comprehension
@@lowiewolffs6140no need to be rude. It’s their interpretation.
I certainly disagree with Max's reasoning, but Lydia didn't start by calling him out for that. She basically started by trying to show that his music taste is trash.
I agree
In the world of composing there is a certain respect one must have for the old masters as a lot of your compatriots weither you like it or not may idolize such figures.
To openly hate them so much with, quite honestly a mediocre ability to conduct as we saw from the student.
It's clear that if he had kept that attitude not a single person apart from the few hipster snobs would go to see him.
Because instead of being a conductor, he wants his identity to be the forefront. Which is completely wrong and egotistical.
She helped him by making him realize being so opinionated at that stage in his career would only doom him to mediocrity.
you are hopeless
Cate is such a lioness of a woman she is so commanding.
This scene is interesting because I think it represents Lydia as a whole. There's dedication, intelligence and prestige. She knows what she's talking about and she is good at navigating the world of music. But then, there's her fatal flaw. She is challenged by a student who is just as stubborn and unwilling to listen as she is. She tries gently at first. She tries to wow, to spar with her ideas. Then when that fails?
What does she do?
She humiliates him. She used her authority as the teacher and the position on the student to reinforce her authority to grind him into the dirt
Your whole statement at the very end sounds too relative and vague. You didn't explain what parts she abused her own authority as a teacher. Objectively speaking, she just challenged his ideals, encouraging the student to evolve himself as an artist by separating politics from the art.
I wouldn't say she humiliated him, more like Max embarrassed himself with his arrogance and Lydia just showed him the consequences of that arrogance
@@1996koke Perfectly stated.
Long gone are the wonderful days in which he would have been thrown out of the prestigious school for putting his own ego above the study of Bach, or any giant composer, alas.
Maybe it's because of how this video is titled, but I feel most of the comments here are missing the central point of this scene by being a bit reductive of it. To me, it's a little shallow to see this scene as an example of a professor proudly, if not a little bit harshly, defending a correct stance against a younger person that has no right to be offended, shutting down when confronted.
With the context of the entire movie, that's really not what this scene is trying to do. Lydia is the villain of the film. The entire film is about her fall from grace due to her own actions and self-destructive traits as she damages those around her. This scene is meant to set up how hypocritical and egotistical she is as a person. Her ego is on full display here. Lydia takes this opportunity to publicly humiliate Max in front of his peers and she is so condescending and cruel that she doesn't care about changing Max's mind anymore - she just wants to prove her point and place herself above Max intellectually instead of engaging in a dialogue. Lydia herself has done and continues to do terrible acts and that is the main reason she is even engaging in this debate at all. She is deeply afraid that her own actions will eventually lead to something such as this. She does not want others to recognize her for who she is as it will tarnish her career and legacy, so she becomes deeply offended and tries to get the student to focus on the art and not the person behind it.
To see this scene as some kind of SJW owned by a righteous professor moment is just stripping the scene from what makes it worthwhile. Lydia may or may not be right here. Many would agree that value can be derived from art produced by potentially bad people, but the film doesn't pick a side either way. This scene is solely to jumpstart the themes of the film and to provide some extremely important character definition, and not to show some kid being owned by facts and logic.
What do you mean she could or could not be right? What exactly was conceivably incorrect about what tar said?
@@donkeyparadise9276 Reasonable people could disagree about whether art can-or, more importantly here, should-be appreciated independent of the artist.
@@donkeyparadise9276 I don't think its unreasonable for someone to take a stance like that. This isn't an objective thing.
But I'm not really here to argue whether or not art should be separated from the artist or not. I'm just here to talk about the film. One of the very first things Tár does in the film is analyze Mauler's life in order to incorporate that into his art for interpretation purposes. Yes, this is a different context with different outcomes but she is still doing it nonetheless since it is convenient and sometimes necessary to analyze the artist's life. Further in the film, she does the same thing when she is so attracted to Olga that she chooses her over the talent of her other player in her orchestra, again linking the art to the artist. This scene is just to set up she is a hypocrite because things like this are far from black and white. There is a genuine argument to be had as to if separating art from the artist is impossible, and thus those unable to connect with art have reasonable reasons for doing so. I'm not even asking you to agree with all that, but I think it's fair to at least consider it.
People, particularly in these situations, often fail to distinguish right ideas from right action. Max is wrong and Lydia is right about Bach. But these conversations happen at conservatories every day and she shouldn’t have used this moment to attack him that way. That’s a wrong action even if she was ultimately right conceptually.
@@bhongusa dude was being racist
The turbulent brilliance of Cate Blanchett
This scene is far more complex than 99% of people in the comments section are making it out to be. 😄🤦♂️SMH That's why Todd Field is such a brilliant filmmaker!
Or the person who posted it lol
IVE BEEN LAUGHING FOR DAYS
Yeah it’s shocking to me how people can’t seem to discern good ideas from bad actions these days. She was right about Bach for sure and he’s a pretentious idiot acting like he’s above playing or conducting Bach. But it’s okay for a kid that age to sometimes be a bit of an annoying snob. It’s a stage of growth and a good professor knows this. But she was just plain mean toward the end. Right ideas. Wrong actions.
We just want to see the woke douche get his feelings hurt.
@@milesmartin4958 Was she being mean though? Or was she performing a hard pushing to open his eyes to better opportunities when it comes to art when he's not even attempting to open his mind when she was trying to softly push him when she started playing the piano? At 2:04, she was trying to softly push him to open his mind up to the possibility of opening his point of view, to expand his palette for music. When he refused to do so 3:13, she decided to push him harder by showing how flawed his logic is. Granted, it wasn't the best way to handle it, but how do you get through to someone who refuses to try to see the flip side of the scenario? Who is so blindly following social media trends that he's cutting himself off from an entire world of art? Modern artists are inspired and influenced by past artist (who themselves were inspired by past artists as well). To me, what she did is bad, but she did it for the right reasons: to wake someone up to a massive world he's been ignoring. It's a 50/50 kind of thing to me.
I love the details like the student is clearly super uncomfortable and nervous the entire time. And while tars point is valid she is going out of her way to embarrass him infront of the entire class for doing the sin of disagreeing with her.
No, for being a small minded, myopic and very bigoted jackass.
Theres a lot to discuss in the scene. The first time i thought she was grilling him. Second time, i picked up on those details.
Because his juvenile pueril attitude deserves a great verbal slap to his ego
While I agree she's harsh, the student's reasoning is a complete stupidity, his race and gender are not an excuse to not study Bach. I wouldn't say she is doing this because he disagreed with her but more to make the point of "why the hell are you studying in Julliard if you think you can just avoid studying one of the greatest composers?"
@@1996koke it's a great film cuz its more a discussion piece, doesnt push a particuliar stance imo. I love this scene cuz it sort of encapsulates what I feel is the main point of the film: Can you separate the art from the artist ? How do you wish to be judged ? By your personal life or by your work ?
Despite her questionable actions, her perspective holds merit. While she may be a hypocrite, her argument raises a crucial question. Brilliant how this scene asks, does personal flaws diminish the value of one's art? And after watching the entire movie the context of the scene changes and mirrors the previous question: does being a hypocrite negate the truths within one's words? The discussion circles back to the complex interplay between personal character and the intrinsic worth of artistic or verbal expression. Definitely an incredibly layered scene.
This scene has great writing, great acting and great cinematography/ direction. One of best I have ever seen. On top of that the message is topical and timely
Why did Bach have so many children?
Because his organ had no stops.
Lol
"the narcissism of small differences leads to the most boring conformity"
I love how she shut him up
1:14 the way she says "Max's allergy" is so scathing 🤣🤣
Also the way she says “some day, Max, when you go out into the world and you guest conduct for a major… or MINOR… orchestra” at 04:12 implies where she thinks he’s headed.
@@gracenurse3365ooh didn’t realize that part. That was so sneaky lol
“Who gets to decide that?” Brilliant question.
No actor, male or female could have pulled this movie off but Cate.
0:06
I am all in favor of people being who they are, but I'd be lying if said that I didn't yell "SHUT UPPPPPP!!!" quite loudly at this part.
There's "Being who you are" and then there's "Hiding behind who you are so you don't have to face uncomfortable truths".
Also, masterful acting from the actor who played the student. That leg shake was very effective.
She is not offending him so much as challenging him, with far more open-mindedness than he has yet to develope. Great Scene. Great Points Made.
You missed the point here, kid. She is just as close minded as anyone. Just as triggered. lol The movie was probably a bit confusing for you?
@@earnthis1 Perhaps it is YOU who missed the point--she is confronting head-on the 'Cancel Culture' fad that the young guy represents and erroneousy believes to be 'Woke' when it is usually just another way of Being Asleep. She calls him out on his own biased remarks by turning them against him.Clever. And Necessary.
@@eldiran2this movie can’t be anti cancel culture because it’s not real. Someone you like being hated on twitter is “ruining there life”. If someone already has financial means and is respect in an industry, their going to get away with shit or their at best able to hide away with their money. That’s the part I don’t understand people like you didn’t get with this film.
*isn’t good damnit
@@hehehejohnzo3839 But you see that she IS trying to teach him when they sit at the piano and attenpts to get him to appreciate the Bach piece DESPITE his pre-conceived prejudices towards the composer, which he allows to taint his perception.. The film is ALLL ABOUT seoarating the Art from the possibly-tainted Creators. i.e. ALL artists (people) are flawed, so do we cancel ALL their creations? (including Tar's amazing achievments?) The film IS dicussing the new 'woke' and 'cancel' culture, and challenging its legitimacy and validity. It's The Whole Point Of The Film.
I would say that her character is talking as much about the student as herself, because she understands that the world is bigger than all of us and that each of us have shortcomings, which we must accept even if it is a struggle. This is an interesting scene, for sure.
I’m getting a sweater that says “Don’t be so eager to be offended”
What an excellent way to let everyone know that you've misunderstood or failed to see a movie, AND that you have massive political opinions that you're utterly incapable of shutting up about.
@@davidlynch4971 I have seen the movie three times. Nina Hoss, who is in the movie, is my teacher from University in Germany.
And what would those “political beliefs” be exactly? Since you’re so much inside my head? 😂
Lydia Tár did an excellent job at dismantling the fragile feelings of that affirmative action student and for that reason I want my sweater.
@@davidlynch4971 Wait so basically what you're saying is they made this scene to show how the BIPOC was in the right and just because Lydia Tar was a bad person means that she was wrong in this scene?
This is probably one of the dumbest possible interpretations of what I wrote... with some of the most startling random logical leaps 👍
@@troll707 The idea that a statement can be right, even when spoken by someone horrible, is beyond many people.
To deny Bach is denying the old testament, deny Beethoven and the new testament goes out of the window... Poor people
this is phenomenal character writing; she's clearly doing the "right thing" by telling this guy off for his reductionist attitude towards music but less because she wants to actually explain to a person who may be young and inexperienced how to appreciate art better but because she just wants to impose her own ego onto others and so she does so by belittling this nervous college student who just wanted to conduct a piece he liked. it's extremely covert asshole behavior and that's probably why people in the comments are saying she did nothing wrong
Stop shaking your LEG!!!
when the scene is more nuanced and deep than the comment section
Him: I don’t rock with Bach he’s a misogynist
Also Him: (calls her the b word)
Her: you are a robot 🤖
I love 3:06, for a moment, we get an actual moment of warmth out of Lydia. She tried to make the kid laugh, not as a manipulative power play, but to see if she could do it and make the whole conversation a little lighter...
Until Max gives her the response she doesn't want to hear, then she snaps and forces Max's leg to stop tapping, violating a physical boundary and proceeds to berate him in front of an audience. Tells us something about how she views her 'favourites'
They were both adding to cancel culture in their own way, like when she doxed a guy for being single, and destroyed a woman's career driving her to suicide.
Who was the guy she doxed?
@@hazardousjazzgasm129 The single guy.
The caption is a misrepresentation of this scene. She doesn't just "offend" him, she sets out to humiliate him in front of his peers.
rightly so
@@watch-Dominion-2018lmao
Which he deserves
And deservedly so.
He is much too close minded to ever be a good conductor.
the fragility of the knee and the fake displays of torment. the problem is we are teaching people their feelings have automatic validity. the child imagining the ghost under the bed should have their fear both validated and justified.
I mean isn’t Tar also like a major celebrity especially in their world? He can’t be nervous that she is focusing so much on him, seemingly unexpectedly??
So we gonna ignore that this student got into Julliard without knowing and refused to learn anything about Bach?
this scene was genius
lol all he said was he didn’t like Bach. It was just his opinion. She acted like he was talking a stand against his being studied or played
How would professors at Julliard react to a student who said he wasn’t willing to study and play music by Black or gay composers?
The difference is that people have been refusing to recognise music written by Black and gay composers for most of history....
This was the only part I agreed with Lydia on. She was being real with him and dude was just being way too sensitive. You need to have thick skin and be able to take criticism. It took me a while to get used to criticism and to have a growth mindset, which is the opposite of what he had, a fixed mindset.
I think the point of the entire scene is that she's right in the content, but not in the way she delivers it and especially embarrasses the young student in front of the entire class.
@@Nerdlaborhe embarassed himself for having such a retarded opinion
@@Nerdlaboragree with you 💯 percent. She was very crass in her way of explaining it and malapert in a manner.
Brilliant. Show this in schools.
Max is super dull
4:38 should have been the mic drop, point was already made, everything after that was just running up the score
I think the point of the entire scene is that she's right in the content, but not in the way she delivers it and especially embarrasses the young student in front of the entire class.
When she looks at the fishbowl at the end, she is disgusted by the bluntness of choosing women. But that's what she has been doing all these years as conductor.and how she treats everyone. Shes a monster that uses her knowledge of tradition and music to obscure the bad things she doing and pretend they aren't really that bad.
Choosing a woman doesn’t make Lydia a monster: playing with women and destroying them does.
Talent. The ability to touch people's hearts and minds. To dive into the Collective Unconscious and give something worthy of excellence. That is the role of an artist.
This comments section has restored my faith in humanity!
It’s so refreshing to witness critical debate without the usual ad hominem / cancel culture tropes
Brilliant. this scene alone was oscar worthy.
This is good teaching. This student is a nervous basket case driven insane by the culture. "You must sublimate yourself, your ego and - yes- your identity." - yes! .... And this is superb filmmaking, which shows the ability to do just that. The superb writing is intensified by the direction. In one shot we get the whole scene, the relationship of the characters. The scope ratio is utilized beautifully. A lesser filmmaker who can't block a scene would cut every two seconds and have unmotivated closeups and other b.s.
I interpreted the scene in an entirely different way bc I have really bad issues with social anxiety particularly with people I admire, or of authority in school etc, and especially if they’re noticing that I’m nervous/shy, and keep pressing at me as a challenge. The way she snaps physically toward him was to me her just exploiting his nervousness bc sheENJOYS being intimidating
I don't think think people are more easily offended today.
But there's some new kind of desire to WANT to be offended so you can become defensive about it.
As others said, both parties are acting foolish here. The student is naïve. I can't imagine them ever acquiring a worthwhile conducting job with a mindset like theirs, but they have every right to view music history from whatever perspective they wish. It is clear that Max wants to focus on contemporary, more avant-garde classical music, and in our postmodern world, this should be acceptable.
Lydia completely bulldozed the performance of the piece in question, and told the student to focus on Bach instead, a rather common trait of pigheaded professors and lecturers. There also seems to be an element of projection as well that is present here; the sexual crimes of Lydia are later exposed in the film, which can explain why she got so defensive against Max's touchiness. She is very adamant about the separation of artist from the art, an act which is possible on a surface level and nothing more, because if HER crimes were exposed, then she would want people to do the same with her.
Nope.
You can't concentrate on modern music without knowing the old one. Without even wanting to. Max thinks he's a master already and able to select, when he's still a student. A student does not choose what to learn and when. His teacher does.
And where Max is utterly wrong and what Lydia wants to tell him: Max only sees the person. And judges from today's attitude if it's worth to be studied and played. Bach ist only an example für Tár to tell him, how wrong he is to do so. It could be any other one for the same purpose. And when he doesn't want to listen to her and to comprehend, she takes another example - him. And he goes the same misogynic he accuses Bach of ... that's the irony in the scene.
Anyway, Lydia is just doing her job: Teaching. But Max is not doing his, learning. He's just following his agenda ... feeling a victim and be offended.
What comes later in the picture, comes later. Of course, naturally she's not a saint herself. No one of us is. We all make our mistakes. But in THIS scene, she's absolutely right, and every word she says to Max is true.
*HIM
If we judge great artists by their moral character, as this guy suggested, they should all be ostracized. Because among the great people there are no sinless ones. Everyone has flaws, nobody's perfect.
Exactly. Who can stand having his life examined moment by moment?
How did this lose Best Actress to Michele Yeoh? This is Sophie Choice level acting
ironically coz of the very thing this is about. Yeoh is Asian, and Blanchett is white, and the Oscar's have the agenda of phuck whytes
The movie was poorly marketed.
Agree her best performance, simply masterclass but Oscars have lost their credibility
Tar is also a movie on how envy and mediocre people advance on a genius person after her human mistakes. The movie shows how this deep reflection was maliciously edited and distorted, to be replicated into social media...
The scene: nuanced discussion of ethics in art that is a microcosm of the whole film
The video title: lol SJW cuck gets owned 😂
need those views
If you don’t think both are in the wrong you massively misunderstood this movie. She’s right but she does not have the right. She’s an educator. She shouldn’t be arguing in such a way with a student, and that kind of blurring of boundaries only to polish her own ego is what led to her demise .
She is there to educate, not to pamper snowflakes.
@@chenchen4125 GREAT TAKE CHENCHEN
She’s not arguing. She’s suggesting her students be more open minded. You know as an artists being open to the different and foreign typically makes for a richer experience and makes for richer art? Think about it, when America embarrassed Jazz and the blues after years of turning its nose at what was considered “negro music” did America not develop artistically?
@@chaplincrabtree It doesnt matter, as an educator you can explain it in such a way that doesn't degrade the student and completely roast them in front of the whole class. B O U N D A R I E S. Her cockiness & lack of boundaries were her downfall. period. No professor would be caught dead speaking like this to a student. Not saying the student isn't being a little shit in his own right, but damn ya'll really don't get the responsibility of being in power.
@@chenchen4125 wow you did not watch this movie did you
This is a fine example of how the culture of today is ruining our music.
As a person, the character is trash, but that doesn't mean what she is saying isn't true.
I never knew that about Bach
What a wimp, YOU can't cancel the art!
The title of this video is also not very well-thought out. It focuses on the "offending" part instead of focusing on the actual substance of the discussion. Whoever titled this video is already resigned to the idea of being so "eager to be offended". It pushes the narrative that Tar was in the wrong and anything a BIPOC says is right and no one can challenge it.
The purpose of the scene is to make the point that just because she is the villain it does not mean she cannot be right at times. And my god she is so right here. The point of the movie seems more about the ability of social media to create an entire generation of woke robots as well as tear down the powerful in the cruelest way.
This scene is brilliant
Always put the music first.
Lydia Tar is if Lestat were a human woman and I won’t be taking questions at this time
Here it is. The most misinterpreted movie scene in decades.
Thats what makes it so great tho
What Is the exact Insult she makes on Max? Does she say he's hot as well? I don't get why he get upset
It's simply that embarrassed him in front of the whole class.
Over time the comments about this scene will get really interesting...
I'm on Tár's side, this guy represents perfectly everything wrong about today's world.......
He won't listen to an artist because they might hurt their feelings but cannot take any criticism.
This scene flew right over your head, dude! lololol If it made you feel better, I guess that is good.... lol
I'm shocked by all the comments from people who watched this scene clearly not in the context of the movie and are just like "hurr durr snowflake owned cancel culture lol" The movie is very critical of Lydia Tár. It's clear when you watch the whole thing that she (1) has tremendous power over other people, (2) has used that power for the purpose of grooming and sexually exploiting young women whose careers she could single handedly make or ruin, and (3) she will continue to do that as long as she has power. The film acknowledges that she has point in this scene, that this student is being dismissive and narrow-minded. I even think the end where he just calls her a bitch and storms out shows some his own hypocrisy, that for all his progressive posturing he just can't stand the idea of a woman dressing him down. But the greater evil is Tár, who literally looms large over him throughout the scene. Even visually, you can see that they're just not on equal footing. These aren't two people having a conversation - one of the most powerful people in the world of classical music is taking every effort to humiliate a college student for a having a classic kinda dumb college student take. And, as someone pointed out in a comment, very soon afterwards Tár exposes her own hypocrisy when she props up a cellist she finds attractive over other musicians who have more talent and seniority. I feel like I'm having an aneurysm sometimes reading about the film's reception. Just because Tár never frames itself as a justice narrative about the big bad boogeyman getting her comeuppance doesn't mean it takes the viewpoint that Tár's cancellation is totally wrong and unfair. If you watch this movie and at the end think that Tár deserved to keep her job, you're an idiot.
"he just can't stand the idea of a woman dressing him down", not true, he got angry because he was scolded and exposed to himself.
Yeah people missed the point BOTH were wrong
BIPOC was being prejudiced and blindly hating 'whites'
Tar was sticking up for classical culture but being a bully
Neither was right - the film is about SEDUCING that 'Tar' is good but the film I think is clear she's a monster just a very witty one
Also this is NEAR the beginning - you need to watch on
Lmao dude she did nothing but very patiently make a case for rising above the current “isms” of the day. The only thing that was unrealistic was that the student didn’t immediately and willfully talk past her and double down and exclaim “well actually you are just an oppressor doing a violence rn” she’s 1000% in the right here regardless whether the movie “likes” or “dislikes” her.
Well said
Yeah ultimately everything Max said about Bach was stupid but what he said about Lydia is spot on. She’s a bitch - a great artist who does terrible things. You can be right about Bach AND wrongfully abuse your power as a teacher to humiliate a student. If the scene had ended after the piano discussion I’d be fully in agreement with her but the way she turned it back on him personally wasn’t an appropriate way to have that art/artist conversation (which real conservatives are having all the time!)
Amazing scene!
Ffs do people like him really exist?
Absolutely yes. It’s like those liberals and Blacks who want to take down statues of Lincoln.
Unfortunately
How many bars did Cate play?
Remember, "Amazing Grace" was written by what today's standards would call a lifetime registered sex offender and predator.
Who?
I thought anonymous.
It was written by John Newton who was a slave ship captain. God convicted him of his sins and then forgave him through grace.
So, Francesca is filming the lecture from the very top row. Now, how in the world did she get all the close-ups and different angles that we see in the hit-piece video later on?!
Was it ever confirmed to be her? I thought it was coordinated, because of the different angles. I assumed multiple people were in on it and recorded
I assumed that it was meant to be unclear - just to convey that many people are talking about her behind her back already, foreshadowing.
@@VampyTK I don't see any other phones filming...
I don’t think so.. wouldn’t she have noticed? And it seems like at this point in the film they weren’t in a relationship, correct me if I’m wrong. But I’m sure it’s just be a “random” student filming.
This movie is so brilliant. Biggest snub of the award season. I agree with her completely.
Everyone who sees this scene and interprets it as "the morally grey character having a moment of rationality and thoughtfulness" is media illiterate. Her character is "abrasive" here not because she is so convicted over the art, at least not entirely, her main motivation, what makes her so emotionally driven, is the internal philosophy she holds herself to. She is insecure about the "art vs the artist" topic because she subconsciously harbors shame about her OWN personal life. She is someone who holds onto her accomplishments very dearly. She associates herself with the greats. So if Bach isn't allowed to be appreciated and acclaimed and in power, due to HIS indiscretions, where would that place her? She wants to believe that her ability to conduct and compose great art has nothing to do with her personal life. But it does. That is the thesis of the movie. She used her position to harm the very musicians that play the music she conducts. There is no separating the art from the artist, especially not in this case.
Right or not you have to have a way, way, way thicker skin than that to get through art school.
Lol forsure. My mom went to art school and she told me the stories. Honestly what Lydia said to that student isn't close to some of the shit that's been said at art school
Clown college is a close second.
Young person making a judgment when his life experience is that of a child, hence being offended. Life is way more complicated than simplistic beliefs & ART is something that is far to complicated to dismiss due to the person making it. I feel sorry for simple minded people.
Hmm.. Not sure what she said that was offensive at all. Appears to me like he decided to act all offended because He was unable to answer pointed question.
He did answer it just..in a round about way. I'm a liberal myself and I personally would ask him, Why are you judging a man who was born eons ago by today's standards? I like how she handled it she didn't really seem hateful to me, she was trying to change his mind. I mean yes the words were harsh , a bit to harsh near the end formy taste, but I see what she was trying to do and,that's showbiz. I've honestly never met anyone like him in real life.
@@elizabethsmith7224 Huh? Max answered the pointed question? Please explain how, even if in a round-about way. Please tell me how ‘You’re a f-ing Bwhich’ is the answer to how does Max possibly relate to a super-hot Icelandic young woman (paraphrasing for brevity.) ?? I see that as a weak profane unreasonable response. Not sure how you see that as an answer.
@@mick776gold I was referring to the why do you not want to play Bach question she asked at the beginning
@@elizabethsmith7224 The elimination of the four olds.
While I do appreciate the whole subtext and the conversation about identity politics - the scene is still a display of her being an asshole and it’s unpleasant and very much hard to watch bc I don’t like how she keeps picking on him. She starts off by criticizing him for being a student at Julliard.. ugh
Everything that she says in the scene is 100% correct... We Must open our minds to discover ourselves, We must be willing to make mistakes if we are to understand our limitation/boundaries, and somtimes ot requires us to face/endure uncomfortable things in order to gain greater understanding...
Tar Believed some people needed to open their minds, but she never believed she had to open hers... Is unfortunately turning into the very thing lectures the students about.
Does what happen to her automatically undo everything she says here? No.
What this is as a tragedy
Cate washed the floor with this student.
Fantastic movie/scene
I saw it on a plane … i was dying of laughter.
Yup. Absolutely amazing.
Imagine if straight men didn't like the band Queen, due to the lead singer being gay. If that were the case, you would have never heard of that band. It is often the accused who are the gatekeepers to the dreams of the accusers.
So fucking good, Tár doesn’t see the big picture, she never has. It’s just her view of the world or nothing, does she have valid points? It’s not my place to say but she doesn’t care. Going out of her way to humiliate this kid on every level because he doesn’t like Bach. It’s all about her opinion, she needs to prove he’s wrong, that’s a great villain. She even masks her digs as advise you don’t even realize it till well into the scene.
piano playing, but the hands don't move to the notes
I like this scene in general but how does a student like this get into such a prestigious school
Max is way too closed minded to ever be a great conductor.
Affirmative action.
Schopenhauer was partial to U-Haul lesbians.
is bipoc related to apoc from the matrix?
Tupac
Only half
His leg is shaking because he's in heat for bach.
Brilliant scene.