DISCO-ANTISTAT VINYL CLEANING MACHINE FROM KNOSTI. THE BEST MANUAL CLEANING SYSTEM YOU CAN BUY?
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- Опубліковано 28 вер 2024
- Offering a low-cost, manual vinyl cleaning solution, Paul Rigby readies for a quick wash and brush up ***BUY LINKS IN DESCRIPTION***: tonar.eu/index....
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REFERENCE
Origin Live Sovereign turntable
Origin Live Enterprise 12″ arm
Icon PS3 phono amplifier
Aesthetix Calypso pre-amp
Icon Audio MB845 Mk.II Monoblock Amplifiers
Quad ESL-57 Speakers with One Thing mod
Audio-Technica AT-LP140XP turntable
Audiolab 6000A amplifier
Trichord Dino phono amplifier
Spendor A1 speakers
Tellurium Q Statement cables
Blue Horizon Professional Rack System
Harmonic Resolution Systems Noise Reduction Components
CAD GC1 Ground Controls
Gutwire Consummate Grounding Cable
Air Audio AC-2K Balanced Transformer
All vinyl was cleaned using an Audio Desk’s Ultrasonic Pro Vinyl Cleaner
Ive had this system for about 7 years now and Im completely happy with it, what I did was chuck away the fluid , if using this it builds a residue of white gunge which was not good, I also use a clamp that had a bigger circumference which protects the label better.
Always wait longer for records to dry. Now I’m looking at a vacuum cleaner to dry the vinyl as I feel this is the way to go!
I bought one about a week ago. Since then I've done 2 sessions for a total of 23 LPs. in brief, impressive. It removed a startling amount of snap, crackle, and pop. And, yes, it did make more music visible. No magical thinking; definitely there to be heard.
It is a bit fiddly to use at first but by the second session I had a nice little routine going.
What it cannot do is remove physical damage arising from knackered sapphire styli and drunken parties in 1973, nor should it be expected to.
Thanks for the review. It has genuinely improved my listening enjoyment.
Did it damage your labels?
@@o_4972 No,it didn't. The clamp did a reasonable job of protecting the label. I expect that if over- or undertightened you might get ingress of liquid but it hasn't given me a problem.
The Disco-Antistat is a superior record washer, however, my results using your record cleaning procedure yielded incredible results. I am going through my collection working from cleanest to worst. Some records will have to take several dips in the pool before recovery is captured. I am very pleased to report Diana Krall let me wash her all over tonight which made me very happy.
I bought this system years ago and I've been using it since. As far as I'm concerned this is the best record cleaning system I have ever used.
In the US, they sell this product as the Vinyl Styl record cleaner. Though the tank looks cosmetically different, the underside drying rack is there, the spindle is identical, and so are the two brushes and the funnel.
It even has a lid!
Great find!
no drying rack
This is the most detailed and informative review of such a product, it really convinced me to get one, and it has been a wise investment. The results are amazing. On quite a few stubborn records the static disappeared and almost no pops and clicks at all (only pops left were from scratches or defective pressings). Plus the music is more detailed, with a wider soundstage. I have not had any issues with the solution and residue build up on the stylus either. Thank you.
I found a second clean with purified water in the bath removed the deposit left by the Disco Antistat fluid. Also you can use a goats hair brush with an RCM to produce a similar equivalent aggressive scrub. More effective than the Disco Antistat in my experience. For really dirty records the Disco Antistat can serve as a pre cleaner before using an RCM.
OMG we love to hear audiophiles describe music and a good recording🙂
Excellent video , 10/10 for explaining everything clearly and concisely!
I bought one of these this week. I have an old copy of Dark Side of the Moon that's been in storage for 30 years. Having bought a new turntable last week, it was time to get it out. It was unplayable. Snap, crackle and pop from the start. I only managed a few seconds. After one clean with this product, it plays like new.
I now have to clean the rest of my old collection - with new sleeves of course.
the Knosti is a good system highly recommended, though the supplied fluid leaves a sticky residue, a much better fluid is made by Vinyl Shelter. Dont let the fluid touch the record labels. Extra dirty records can be scrubbed first with fluid and a goats hair brush then dipped in the Knosti.
So I recently started watching your videos. I like your scholarly approach to all things audio. I recently watched videos on record care; surfactants and this one. But the more I listened the more confused I got about what the end game is. You know the best way to clean. I own a a Spin Clean and a vacuum machine. I thought that the Spin Clean did a pretty good job of cleaning and am impressed in its ability to rid lp's of static but I didn't think that it did the best job of cleaning, hence the vacuum cleaner and a host of cleaning potions, enzyme wash, super deep first step cleaners triton x-100, etc., etc. But I always lusted for a cavitation cleaner not just for its superiority over the others but its simplicity. I spend about twenty minutes futzing with enzymes that half to sit five minutes on the lp, then clean that with regular cleaner, then a pure rinse. Just drop it in that's it. I know the first machines were not reliable but the Degritter seems to be different. I notice that you use one. But watching this video I get the impression that you prefer the antistat machine with your preferred solution to vacuum cleaners. You didn't really discuss them. And then I forgot how you put it, the antistat and Degritter were the only proper way to clean records. Am I wrong? after this I put a hold on purchasing the Degritter after I was so amped up in purchasing one. So do you have a video that lays it all out in a succinct and no confusion way or maybe you can explain it in the most concise way to someone like me?
Thanks Nicholas. If you need a Guide for manual cleaning, try this recently posted article from my site. I'll be transferring it to video but not just yet. Here's the link: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
My ultimate cleaning system is ultrasonic via a Degritter. Next down is a vacuum-based system with an Antistat used as a sort of pre-wash. Further down is the Antistat only. Depends on your budget. Here's a review of the Degritter, if you need that: theaudiophileman.com/degritter-vinyl-record-cleaning-machine-ultrasonic-review/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks for responding. I do have two more questions , the use of glycol in cleaning solution. Is this the same as automotive coolant and how do you get small amounts? Also the use of a kabuki brush to apply Tergitol solution to an lp. All I could find were makeup brushes.
Glad you liked this & that I picked it out by luck from the plethora of Amazon products. I don't play much vinyl so while being impressed by the initial results will check clean my stylus & re do with your great distilled water alcohol mixture Paul. Thanks for discovering & pointing the residue problem out!
Fancy giving Topping DACs another go? Check out the E50 - using mine (in pre-amp mode) via the power amp input of the Audiolab 6000a sounds incredibly detailed & dynamic to my cheapskate audio ears - even at 16 bit 44.1 streaming over Amazon music / Wiim mini! Cheers
No problem and I'll make a note, Andy
Thanks a lot for all the advice Paul, much appreciated..Just one additional question on version II of the Disco Antistat. If I understand correctly, it is not worthwhile paying twice as much for the updated version. From what I see, the only differences are rubber feet added, a manivel to turn the record and apparently better protection for the label so that it does not get wet. I don't think this justifies charging double the price as compared to the older version. Grateful for your views. Best regards, Ignacio
Errr, did I share this link with you, Ignacio - can't remember and I'm on the move so can't check. It should answer a heap of questions: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I hope to review the 'II' but from what I can see the changes are aesthetic only.
Good video i have a vinyl styl record washer, 2 spin clean record washer, ultrasonic digital cleaner and the record doctor VI vacuum cleaner to dry my records.
Wow, J.D. Emmanuel. Wasn't expecting to see such esoteric music on an audiophile channel.
It's the product that counts not the box 😊
I've had the Disco Antistat 2nd Generation cleaning machine for a few years and I'm quite pleased. Here are my thoughts about the pros and cons.
Pros:
1, the inclusion of a handle on the clamp is a very useful addition which makes turning the disc easier.(Although the handle is quite flimay).
2, The brushes are removable which I'd useful for cleaning and drying.
3, the clamp, brushes and sealing rins are replaceable.
4, It is relatively inexpensive given the cost of cleaning machines.
Cons:
1, for the price, it is expensive given how flimsy the plastic is. The clamp handle is very useful but is in danger of breaking.
2, although the clamp and brushes etc are replaceable, they are EXPENSIVE.
3, the cleaning fluid does work but leaves a residue on the disc. Easy to rectify, buy a better cleaning fluid.
My tips:
Don't fill the tank to the recommended level as this tends to wet, and sometimes, damage the label. Fill to just below the top of the brushes.
Buy a better cleaning fluid.
Wipe excess fluid from the dead wax with a soft cloth before stacking.
Remove, clean and dry the brushes after each use.
Leave the discs to dry for as long as possible.
I think that this is the best of the 'cheapest' cleaning machines. It is flimsy plastic and replacements are expensive. Having said that, I have found it to be very effective.
I also have the generation 2, but I can't get the brushes out of the holder, so replacing them is really not possible.
I bought a spare set and it is of no use to me, it is better to buy a new container with the brushes already in it, which is a bit more expensive but saves a lot of annoyance.
I also threw away the liquid because it is a very nasty attack on your stylus (and I imagine also on your precious vinyl).
I also think it is a good device, but the stuck brushes really annoy me
Could you not give the record a rinse with with garden sprayer filled distilled water and 1% alcohol to get the included cleaning liquid off the groove?
Do you need to dry off with a soft cloth or drip dry? Many thanks for the video. I got one this Christmas and the instructions are in German so this was very useful.
Glad I could be of help. Wouldn't recommend a cloth because you'll only recontaminate the disc if you do that. Natural drying is best.
@@TheAudiophileMan thanks for that. One more quick question. Do you unclamp the middle spindle after it’s dry enough. If there’s still residue does it ever drip onto the label?
I find that lifting the clamped record out of the bath, allowing it to drip dry for a few seconds (so the majority of the liquid immediately falls back into the bath), then unclamping and transferring to the drying rack is the best option.
@@TheAudiophileMan How long does the record take to completely dry in the rack please? Thanks
@Chaggy1978 Depends. Mainly, how warm your room is. What liquid type sits in the bath. Sometimes even the makeup of the vinyl itself. Several minutes? Broadly?
Any chance to have a review of the knosti ultrasonic disco-antistat?
I've asked them twice but I'm still waiting for a reply - they can be a bit...elusive.
Hi Paul. Thank you for such an interesting in depth informative review following which I've just bought thie Disco Antistat kit. My only query is regarding your comments about the Knosti liquid leaving deposits on the stylus: Are the deposits easy to get off? I clean my stylus before and after playing one side of an LP with a small carbon fibre brush. Would this suffice for removing the deposits or would I need something else to remove them?
Hi Martin - my website-based, manual cleaning guide may be of use here: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks Paul, I will do that.
Great video paul.
Thanks!
I have this machine and it's incredible for the price. Looking to get a Project VC-E but the £329 price tag is somewhat daunting. Would the results of a vacuum based cleaner compared to the Disco-Antistat justify such a step up in price?
Yes, indeed. But I would give your vinyl a 'pre wash' with the Disco first before you take it to the VC-E.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks Paul. Appreciate your time.
Seems pretty fiddly compared to a Spin Clean though
The clamp is a bit fiddly to be honest, but after a while its easy enough. On the plus side its half the price of Spin Clean and according to Paul does a better job.
Having just watched this video - because I can't find the "promised" follow up videos on cleaners and solutions. I have to say that in my opinion you seem to have missed the point of why people go to all the effort of cleaning vinyl. Instead of rambling on about "more open" soundstages etc all I want to know is - Has surface noise diminished. Now I know that no cleaning method can do anything about scratches, but ingrained dirt is the enemy, that we try to remove for the "blacker background"!
I use both a ultrasonic bath - 40° for 30mins then transfer to a Project VCS to rinse with deionised water and vacuum dry. Still I get mixed results with old vinyl even though it doesn't appear scratched. Where's the more in-depth videos on ultrasonic cleaners we've been waiting for?
This is the Achilles heel of vinyl that if conquered would mean more to me than a £10k pair of speakers!
Happy New year by the way 👍
I recently posted Pt.1 of my cleaning guide on my website, if you are unable to wait for the video version over here, please read: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
This should provide a grounding and can be extrapolated to ultrasonic cleaning. Ultrasonics will be the core of pt.3. If you need more guidance, read this piece first and then give me a shout.
I get water spots on my vinyl after using 1% isopropyl alcohol 99% distilled water. I let the vinyl dry in the rack. Anyone else experience the same problem? Any advice?
You’re using a budget cleaning device, why is that a problem? If you want a more efficient cleaner which removes all traces of moisture along with any grime residue that still resides in and around the groove then you’ll need a vacuum based RCM.
@@TheAudiophileMan ok! An ideal result would be to get any residue from the vinyl and not getting it onto the stylus. But assume that I still remove way more than what is left on the vinyl with this device. When are you planning to publish the glycole trick? Looking forward to that.
Hi Henrik - please check out my Website Guide. This may help: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Hi Paul could you use the liquid and distilled water normally used in the Spin Clean in the Disco Antistat without getting the residue on your stylus.
Hi Andrew - been a while since I reviewed the Spin Clean so I can't remember what I thought of the liquid. I seem to remember that it's non-alcohol based and I don't recall any particular issues so sure. Go for it.
If you say dont use the filters just use the water until its too contaminated. How will you know that since you cant see it??
Yes, fair point. If you can't see the contamination yourself and you're concerned then a rough guide is 30 cleans.
@@TheAudiophileMan Cheers boss
The Yinyl Styl Deep Groove is a very similar product (hair brushes included) with a few improvements, it has a 3 part clamp with rubber gaskets to ensure labels stay safe, comes with a lid to keep the liquid clean between washes and a slightly better build in my opinion. As with the disco antistat the supplied cleaner is garbage, leaving a residue on the record. I would recommend you pick one up as they are fairly cheap also and do an amazing job
Great review and totally agree with your findings. I’ve been using one for years now and it’s the single most impressive bit of audio gear I’ve bought! I also ditched the included fluid because of the residue. It scrapes out from the grooves and ends up as a ball of ‘fluff’ on the stylus. Rubbish! But replace that and all is good. I use distilled water with a little bit of l’art du son, which is a bit expensive but works well. Although don’t use much else you again will end up with a residue. I’ll have to give some home-made a go sometime. New records really benefit as well. I’d really only swap the knosti for an ultrasonic cleaner.
Thanks for your kind words Wayne and for your thoughts. Glad you’re enjoying your Disco-Antistat.
Hi well said about the fluid with the cleaner... Bloody awful... I use Luke warm water a little squeeze of washing up liquid or negative film clearer plus a cap full of distilled white vinegar.... Great no build-up of fluff and for some reason seems to sort out STATIC....
i believe the fluff is being removed by the stylus because of the removal of static which would otherwise stay on the surface
Hi Paul,
Love your videos. I'm a fan! I recently purchased a Project Evo Carbon Turntable on your advice (Invaluable!).... I recently also bought a Knosti Disco Antistat Record Cleaner, but after one use I had a lot of trouble removing the Brushes inside it and also putting them back in. I only cleaned 9 records, but I'm wondering if anyone else has come across this issue? I would appreciate your advice! Thanks a million!
Hubert
Why do you want to remove the brushes, Hubert?
@@TheAudiophileMan @The Audiophile Man To clean them. They looked like rust stains on them. They sell spare brushes, so I figured the brushes would come out..... WHAT A JOB! Now they won't go back in. Are they not meant to come out? Whoops.....
They are not meant to be removed. And you can easily clean them in situ.
@@TheAudiophileMan why offer
why offer replacement brushes ?
I bought a Disco Antistat with the intention of cleaning all the vinyl albums which I have collected over the last fifty-odd years since I was about eight years old. I have always taken great care with my records so they are all pretty much in great condition but have only ever been cleaned by running a felt-type antistatic cleaner over the surface to remove any dust before playing. I found the Knosti simple to set up and use and found that I could clean batches of twenty or thirty LPs per session and the results were fantastic. I did start by using the solution that came with the unit and found that in some cases it did leave a slight build-up on the stylus on the first play of each side of the record but on a second play there seemed to be no problem. I found that returning the solution back into a sterilized measuring jug through the supplied funnel twice and using all of the 5 filters together and then placing it into a new bottle kept the liquid clean enough to use many times over. You obviously lose a fair amount of the solution over time due to evaporation and general spillage but I made my own by using one part 99% pure isopropanol, three parts distilled water, and a few drops of Triton X-100 and this worked just as good and like before could be filtered and re-used. There is no point in placing nice clean records back in their original inner paper sleeves so I have replaced every album with nice new polly-lined antistatic inner sleeves making sure any old ones which contained lyrics or anything related to that record I kept in with the cover, all covers were then placed into sealable 'Blake' clear outer sleeves. I have so far cleaned about 300 albums and am very pleased with the results so I can thoroughly recommend the Knosti as a budget way of cleaning your prized records. P.S ..... the only problem I have found is that the clamp eventually broke caused by the threaded half which the opposite spindle screws into snapping which may have been caused by overtightening, I have read on other sites that this is a common problem, and seems a poor design. I did manage to repair mine but you can buy replacements but they do seem expensive for what they are so I do suggest being careful when tightening the clamp.
An excellent overview Paul, thanks for sharing. I've had one of these for a good few years now and I've always used it on my used vinyl where I've had no confirmation that the vinyl has been cleaned prior to purchase. I've always been really pleased with the results. But wow, I must thank you for the tip on cleaning brand new pressings! I never thought about doing this and always thought that they would leave the pressing plant in the best possible state for playback. I've been missing a trick for years it seems! I put your advice into practice this evening and played a brand new record that I've never really been happy with in terms of sonics (Queen's Innuendo). As usual it sounded a bit dull and lifeless, I've always put this down to the mix as the original CD was always a bit lacklustre. Anyway, I've just cleaned it with my Disco AS and I can't believe the difference, it's like night and day! This pressing sounds far better than the original CD and I can finally enjoy it properly. Top advice there and I can highly recommend to anyone that cleaning brand new pressings is a must if you have the means to do so. Cheers, love your channel, thanks!
Glad I could be of help, Karl.
There is something else to consider: Knosti offers replacement parts for the Disco Antistat. You can order new brushes, replace the gaskets on the label protector and whatnot. Which is a good thing not only in regards to product sustainability.
I ordered myself a second Knosti so I can now run a cleaning operation with two different agents: one for cleaning and one for rinsing.
For cleaning, I use either the Knosti fluid (albeit diluted 1:1 with distilled water because it is really highly concentrated) which is decent enough for all oil- or fat-based grime and dust. If I run across a second-hand record (I like visiting flea markets and such) that some uneducated previous owner used tap water on, I need something more "convincing" to get rid of the mineral deposits within the groove. Here is where pure vinegar essence comes in. Diluted with distilled water in a 1:20 ratio, it offers enough acidic potential to dissolve any minerals that might have settled into the groove, also gets rid of oily or fatty grime, isn't harmful towards the Vinyl during short-term exposure and is a totally natural product that has almost no health-related implications and also does not damage the environment (interesting for those who care about these issues), as opposed to Ethanol and the cleaning agent within the Knosti fluid. As an alternative, a really mild solution of pure citric acid (available in powder form) also does a decent job.
For rinsing, I use the second container, filled with distilled water and just a few drops of rinse aid from my dishwasher which helps the water run off afterwards. I don't really care about that antistatic stuff since my record player runs one of these grounded arms with a carbon fibre brush.
I found that this process leaves me with squeaky clean records that play back wonderfully. And yes, brand new records need cleaning as well, maybe even more so than used ones. Which is why cleaning is the first thing I do before the first playback :)
weel thats superb, but what I try .............the brushes won't come out of the damm thing .
The brushes are only replaceable on the latest version, ie the white bath with the turning handle. The original's black bath's brushes are fixed in place sadly @@riezzkienhuis6962
YOU MUST BE VERY CAREFUL when using this machine. Although the clean can be ok, YOU do RISK ending up (like I and others have ) with DAMAGED LABELS on several records, on the second wash. using the first generation machine. Not sure if the latest non ultrasonic model remedies that. On mine, a solid plastic adge on the casket which clamps the record at both ends rubs on the label in a circular motion as you screw it in. A recipe for disaster, especially if you are unicky to get the label wet, which is likely.
I hope knosti do something to remedy this , and the sharp edges and corners on the underside of the white plastic caps which 'coats' the top-end of each divider on the rack. These too could cause damage to both vinyl and labels.
Due to such terrible shortcomings I am now looking for a different machne altogether.
The rack holds 15 records, now if you clean 15 records you'll see that the first one is already pretty dry and can be taken out. If you look closely though you will notice that there's just a little bit still in the grooves. I then wave the record, holding it with two hands at the edges so that it dries.
I NEVER spin the records in the opposite direction while in the machine, because I like to keep the brushes dirty on one side and clean on the other. Now if you feel you need to attack the dirt from both sides, you just lift the spindle and record and turn that over, so by again spinning in the same direction you will spin the record itself in the opposite direction without getting the dirt on both sides of the brushes.
I do have one thing that irritates me and that is the absence of a proper way of pouring out the used fluid back into the filter. It drips a lot and you'll have to get used to that. I manage to use the fact that it is dripping and hold the bottom of the machine above the filter and not the actual pouring lid.
Oh yes: DO ventilate, open the windows or kitchen door or whatever. This prevents you from getting a headache.
Yes, I've done the wavy vinyl thing too! I must look like a right prat but it works :)
Definitely (sometimes) causes gunk to build up on the stylus which is annoying. If you have the time and means, play the record once on another turntable first before playing it on your 'good' stylus / deck. Having said that, the cleaning action is superb on this basic system and yields surprisingly good results and the records come out pretty much looking like they're just out out of the pressing plant and with a new level of sound quality.
I have had the generation two for two months, it has a cranking handle and an arm each side of the body to hold the main spindle when the record is in the washer. I found the same problem with the fluid, it leaves a residue that dry's on the surface, the diamond tip then cleans it off and its gone the next time you play the record. I am going to watch your video on surfactant next. Its funny that I thought the same thing though, it really does work and improves the sound quality of your vinyl for peanuts.
Great review! The best part is the reference to the goat hair brushes. The Vinyl Styl is similar to the Disc-antisat. It too uses goat hair brushes. Maybe you will do a review/comparison of the two.
Hi Paul, I just thought I'd give credit where credit is due. I've now cleaned some of my vinyls using your recommended method of brushing on distilled water with surfactant (i use triton x1 because it was cheap) and then clean in the knosti with distilled water and isopropyl. Well what a difference! Amazing. It revived some albums that were full of crackles. Thankyou. I might even start buying 2nd hand vinyl again .
Glad I could be of help :)
Super review. Here my horror. I have a new Pro-Ject Debut Recordmaster attached to active speakers. A disco antistat and 21 records. Started playing records again after 40 years. Most of my records are second hand from the 70’s. So i cleaned them in the last weeks at least 3 to 5 times with the knosti. Result was super…. Until out of nowhere my records sounded muddy i think is the word. I clean my stylus with the little black stylus brush every side of the record when i play it. First i thought it was the active speaker, so i connected another one i still had. The sound stayed terrible. Then i put one drop of a mixture of polypropinol alcohol and distilled water on the black styluscleaner and after a few tries, some white rubbish fell off the stylus. This never happened when i used it dry. The Knosti antistat fluid leaves white residu on the stylus for sure as you mentioned. Not visible with the naked eye. I now made your 7% mixture. Cleaned all my records again and the result is amazing. Sound is great again and i can play a whole side of a record with at most a static fiber hanging of the stylus. Thanks a lot!
No problem and yep, Knosti's liquid is poor. My mind's gone - have you seen this link? It may help even further: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
While I think it's money well spent and I'm really happy with how it cleans the records. I'm not exactly thrilled with the plastic clamps! They keep undoing while I'm cleaning and when I do them up too tight they get stuck together like they're glued together!
They shouldn't undo - have you tightened them sufficiently? Maybe add a little grease on the screw thread to enable you to unscrew them if you go hard to begin with.
I used it many many years ago with a spray named ‘Permostat’ afterwards. Great 👍 product, I remember, simpel and very effective! My Disco Antistat was an even simpler version than this one, but looks the same.
Hello Mark! Amazing and clear video. Whatched it til now year later. And i cant find at simple search this product, do you recommend any other brand similar to this as alternative? Or should i basically seatch for a similar one that is with inconditionally with brushes? Cheers!!! Happy to see your enthusiasm and vida
Paul,
Thanks for the Video it was extremely useful as I was having an argument with Daniel at Knosti regarding an issue I was experiencing with severe debris appearing on the record surface (and stylus) following cleaning, as well as extra noise between tracks and presumably during playing also!
Daniel was adamant that I must have received a second hand item from my seller and that the fluid was probably already saturated with dirt from previous use!
I tried your recipe for a replacement cleaning fluid and off we go :)
I have forwarded Knosti the link to this video and recommended they take note. I won't be holding my breath for a reformulated liquid any time soon however ;)
Thanks you for your diligence.
James
Put a small coloured sticker on the clamps to make rotation counting a bit easier....and count 1 to 6 first way round, then 7 to 12 on the counter rotation. Its quite theraputic but i do find myself switching off and losing count quite often....
Good idea, Paul - might do that myself, actually.
I have had this record cleaner for a number of years and as you said the fluid that came with it is rubbish....But the cleaner itself with a different cleaning fluid is fabulous ...It cleans not only deep into the grooves (With those goat hairs)but gets grime, grease etc from the surface with ease...I generally use an old towel to rest the record edge on whilst taking of the clamp plus any spills stay on the towel The playback is incredible... dont waste your money on an expensive cleaning machine (Spend that money on more vinyl) the Disco Antistatic does the job... Oh by the way Great Review
There Is now a New version of this, they have ironed out the problems and Improved It. Now you can take out the brushes for better cleaning, or re-newing. they also provide a Turning handle as well as a better way of cleaning. Never had a problem with mine.I use Distilled Water and the Alcohol, I have never used the solution that came with It.
Yes, I have the new version - just need time to review it :)
@@TheAudiophileMan It will be a Interesting Review. I'll look out for It.
Is an entry, but not the solution. (The Knosti has a crank😉)
I love my Pro-Ject VC-E2!
(They changed the old one, into a new for 100€❣️)
Looks like something from "K-Tel" back in the mists of time🧐
Great review...I prefer my Spinclean as there is no need to foil hats and fiddling with middle clamps but the drying rack is a very useful addition indeed.
Your thoughts on the brushes is likely the defining different between this Disco-Antistat and the Spinclean and had me chin scratching intensely (frustratingly).
This all leads up to a definitive bath recipe which you have eluded to being a 'very important' aspect of vinyl cleaning. ua-cam.com/video/VPFgcdRc6x0/v-deo.html. Is this your definitive recipe as mentioned then, distilled water, drop of Tergitol, 7% Isopropyl alcohol or is there to be a prequel movie on the definitive recipe...I am like a Game Of Thrones fan demanding a re-film of the last season lol...
Cheers, Gary.
I recently purchased the Knosti and cleaned about 16 lps. One of the lps is over 50years old being the first lp I ever bought. I was very pleasantly surprised to find I could now listen to it without being unduly irritated by unwanted noise. It is almost as good as new. I will certainly try the distilled water plus additives to see if I can get an even better result. Thanks for your suggestions. I look forward to meeting old friends and giving them the attention they deserve.
Many thanks for posting another really informative and helpful video! 🙏
What equipment did you use to gauge the sound characteristics?
Your ear is subjective.
When using the supplied fluid, I've noticed that my air-quality meter hits red to warn of high readings for HCHO (formaldehyde) and TVOC (total volatile organic compounds). It takes quite a long time to disperse after a cleaning session has ended. Hence, my preference is to shorten exposure to breathing the liquid and return the fluid back to the bottle rather than just cover it with foil.
Another reason to not use the included liquid, then :) Thanks for the breakdown though, interesting stuff.
I bought one of these today and cleaned it. Sad thing is that mine not works as a cleaner but a record dirty maker.
Piece of crap
Well Paul how interesting , I’ve been thinking about the new project vinyl cleaner that’s receiving some attention lately. But having seen your review makes me think , what’s to be really gained? . I do use a device of my own making with some degree of success, but it is a bit of a faf . No to me you’ve just made my mind up , so thanks again . Some times simple is often the way to go . Best wishes and kind regards Mike in the U.K. 👍
Nice video! This manual cleaner really works. I have it since it was introduced. That said it isn’t without its flaws. The method itself is fine, it is about the residu the fluid leaves behind once the liquid is used for a second time after the first cleaning session. Thing is, new records contain no human born dirt, used ones from thrift stores definitely do! So when I want to clean those, I give them a thorough wash under the tap (using the Disco Antistat clamp to protect the label) with plenty of luke warm water and a little dishwasher fluid. After washing the record, I use two pieces of normal kitchen paper ( NO toilet paper!!! ) to dry the record by following the grooves. The paper quickly sucks up the water. After the record is completely dry, the normal cleaning process is followed in the Disco Antistat bath. Doing so your fluid stays much cleaner and can be used time after time up to a maximum of I’d say six to seven times. I use thin plastic film to cover the bath after use. Aluminium doesn’t prevent the evaporation of the alcohol enough. The machine and liquid aren’t without their flaws however. The fluid tends to leave some residu after drying. Not so when the machine is still relatively new. Those brushes collect dust and that dust causes very fine lint in the grooves. Not a big problem, the lint is collected and dug out by the needle while plaing. You just have to remove it from the stylus and once you have played the freshly cleaned record the problem is gone completely. Nonetheless, it is a real downside of this machine and method. Furthermore, while drying in the rack, the fluid leaves a trace of dried up fluid. It is a sign the fluid needs to be replaced! Having said all this, the Disco Antistst does make your records anti static, it really works. In all, it is a winner, certainly if you take into account the rediculous prices more sophisticated machines cost! Greetings from Hekelingen, Holland. Willem.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Willem. If you'd like to further explore vinyl cleaning using this product, check out my extensive Guide here: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I have this and I’ve had it for years. I find it great for cleaning, but originally I found the solution left a film on the disc that clogged the needle. I use my own solution and rinse the disc off after cleaning and it is fab.
I have used this product for a couple of years now on used records, with very satisfying results. Did not know about the need to clean newly pressed records though, thanks.
I have used this device for a couple of years with reasonable success. I found the label will get wet if you overfill the bath because the clamp doesn’t form a good seal. I broke the screw on mine by overtightening it. This was me being overzealous. I am now looking for an o-ring that will fit into the grooves in the clamps and form a better seal without too much tightening. (The mk 2 version has this feature). Anyhow I made a new metal spindle and screw for the clamp, so all good.
The filter is junk though because the solution can get under the filter paper without being filtered (which will contaminate the next record you clean). Use a normal funnel and filter paper for much better results. The amount of muck that comes off the records after a cleaning session is quite astonishing. I find that it takes two plays to get the excess anti static stuff off the record. Maybe I should dive your 1% solution a try.
Good insight and advice, Richard. Many thanks.
Just purchased one of these, used distilled water small alcohol and drops of surfactat, washed new dire straits money for nothing double vinyl. Result CRAP. Noise,noise noise. Now in trash. Disappointed.
Take it back out, read my Vinyl Guide, try again and see if that helps: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
I have the same device. There is something that keeps me wondering. The records i own, 40 years old seem to have more clicks than in the old days. I read records are pressed and the records are loosened from the metal motherrecord with grease or oil. Is the oil or grease that remained in the grooves the cause of the clicks, oil or grease get thicker over the decades and stuf in it locked. Dear readers, am i right? Thanks in advance. If so,will an ultrasonic cleaner be effective to remove the unwanted?
Hi - it's not grease or oil specifically that remains in the grooves. It is but it isn't. Nothing is added for that purpose. It is a sort of oil I suppose but it's naturally leeched by the record itself. That is the lubricant that prevents the record sticking to the press is actually part of the vinyl recipe itself. The 'oil' is released under heat and pressure by that recipe. So no human, for example, is involved. Similarly, it's not removed when the record is released from the press. No one has the time or the manpower or the money remove the stuff so it stays in the groove forever...unless you remove it. And it will only be removed through abrasion. Which most vinyl cleaning solutions/systems do not include. Ultrasonic cleaners have it. The best low-cost system that offers abrasion is the Disco. It's the tough goat hair brushes, you see. Similar designs to this one that feature sponges instead of brushes only offer a fraction of the cleaning power, I'm afraid and zero abrasive properties. Check out my own vinyl cleaning guide here (produced after many years of research, interviews, testing, etc). It may help you, happy to answer questions after you've checked it out: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Great review love the that you highlighted the fact that not only does the knosti clean your records but it also improves the sound reproduction, surprisingly so. Spot on about the fluid leaving gunk on the stylus.. I use pre made fluid from Vinyl Shelter, it's priced well and performs brilliantly. I had some records cleaned by a friend on his expensive Moth cleaner it did improve them but I put them through my knosti once I had purchased it and my word it improved the sound hugely. So expensive is not always the best. Thanks again.
Agreed, brushes are better than pads, but I think calling the SpinClean things "pads", might be a bit misleading, because they are, if I'm not mistaken, microfiber pads, so they do have fuzzy bits that do scrub into the groove of the record. That being said, I think the optimal device of this type might be achieved by combining the Knosti and the SpinClean, because I find the spindle of the Knosti to be too fiddly and unnecessary. I've cleaned 10,000+ records in the SpinClean and have yet to ruin even one label. Also, I use two SpinCleans for most of the records in my store, one with cleaner, the second with only distilled water, followed by a quick wipe with the supplied clothes then a few minutes in a drying rack. Lastly, I always rinse really nasty records off in the sink first, as to not unnecessarily gunk up the SpinClean with grit and grime. I also have a two stage wet vac system (Tergikleen then distilled water) at the store that I use on my personal collection and for higher priced records.
Enjoy watching your videos. When hanging your records out to dry (so to speak), do you end up with watermarks?
Not with the system I use. Check out the link: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for the link - very helpful.
I am very wary of online reviews but having got my record collection out of fifteen year storage in less than ideal conditions (think dusty attic in the tropics) I really needed a better choice than hand washing and this review seemed to make sense and hit the initial budget.
So I just bought a Disco Antistat based on this review and having cleaned my first batch of nine with a distilled water and isopropyl alcohol mix am pretty happy with the result.
I cleaned a mix of recent second hand purchases and the old ones and by the time I drained and filtered the tank at the end the water had got a bit yellowish and the drain filter had caught quite a bit of crud that the brushes had got off the records.
All but one seem to have come up spotless and sound fantastic.
I have no idea who did what to the remaining one but there was something very nasty stuck to the surface which warrants further research.
All in all - thank you very much for this review.
I got this version of the Disco-Antistat 8 years ago now and have cleaned 100s of records, I have always been impressed with the results. I too make my own cleaning solution.
I use a battery powered drill to turn my clamp, it works very well.
I intend to get the second generation of it as it has the handle, you can replace the brushes and has gaskets for the labels.
This randomly popped up on UA-cam for my pleasure. As always a great detailed view. I’ve just bought the Degritter MKII, but know that it cannot remove finger prints. I was thinking of adding this as an option to clean up those badly handled secondhand LPs, before they meet the Degritter. In your experience, do you think this cleaner with its attrition, would be effective Paul?
Also, now that you don’t recommend tergitol, what would your choice be?
How can I clean the goat brush?😮
I do 80 to 100 rotations In total ... well I am a perfectionist. 🤣😂
DEFINITLY remove the clamp before you put it on the rag!! If you remove it while in the rag, you might damage your record ...
I'm reading do not use the alcohol when using the tergikleen. Only add recommended amount of tergikleen to distilled water only. They also recommend to do a rinse with only distilled water afterwards to rid the record of residual tergikleen.
Hi Tony - I don't recommend adding Tergitol to the bath itself but to the surface of the vinyl. Adding Terigtol to a bath will drastically reduce the efficiency of the Tergitol performance. Once clean then yes, I recommend a rinse to remove all residue.
@@TheAudiophileMan thank you for that!
@@TheAudiophileMan would that be after the record dries or right after the cleaning bath?
If I didn't know better, I would think the Disco-Antistat was like a Ronco product from the late 70s, based on the name.
Actually, wasn't their a Ronco vinyl vacuum cleaner thingie back in the 70s? I'd forgotten about that. I must try to look for one and test in on the channel. Now that would be fun. To be found right next to your Ronco Vegematic I guess? ;)
@@TheAudiophileMan I must have been unconsciously incorporating the Ronco vacuum into my mental image, haha.
My listening experience will be much improved thanks to your great advice, of which I've been following closely, you sir are one the of the best assets to the vinyl community! as to your advice my kit includes, the Knosti Washer without the cleaner solution even though they say it won't leave a film on the records, a Hudson stylus cleaner, a Kabuki brush, a stylus force guage, some Triton X100, some fancy inner record sleeves, a few dropper bottles, a set of beakers, a trio of Groovewasher pads for that light dusting before play, distilled H2O, Isopropylene Alcohol 99.9%, Propylene Glycol food grade, all this will make my 440 watt 4 ohm speakers and Denon DL 160 cartridge sound pretty amazing, I almost feel like an audiofile, thanks Paul 🎻
Hello and congratulations for your work. I was about to perchase a clean system for my vinyl from Project but you have convince me to go for the ANTISTAT. What bothers me is the issue with the cleaning liquid and because i find it hard to use all those other mattirials with alcohol ect i d like to ask if you suggest me to use the cleaning liquid that PROJECT suggests? i would appreciate your replay a lot as i wont be in confiuson and anxus any more, thank you
Hey Paul - I've been paying close attention to this video lately b/c I'm coming up with a gameplan for cleaning my vinyl. If I'm understanding your directions correctly, you apply the surfactant to an uncleaned record...that's the first step correct? If so, potentially could you be getting a lot of dirt on the kabuki brush? Would it make sense to do a quick rinse in the Knosti with just distilled water before applying the surfactant? Forgive me if I'm missing something.
Also, can you let me know your process for cleaning a record just before you put it on the table? Do you use a brush? If you already did a video on this could you please direct me to it?
Lastly, I've seen several reviews on your channel about turntable mats. Is there any one that you like the best?
I appreciate the service you're doing for the vinyl community. Especially us newbies. Thanks for all of your time/energy.
I have Disco Antistat gen.2. Worst buy I ever did. Liquid is very good. That's it. The seal around label works 20-30% of the time. Lot's of wasted liquid, because there is no rubber courtain to prevent too much liquid on the LP. Stupid expensive.
Nice review thanks Paul.. I just wish I’d seen it before I bought a Spin Clean! Haven’t actually used it yet, been researching methods for drying the records eg air dry or using a cloth. It’s a minefield, so many differing opinions.
Hi Graham - the best drying method is to hoover the liquid using a high quality RCM but cash might get in the way there.
@@TheAudiophileMan as you say - the price is prohibitive. I’ll give the the Spin Clean a go. I’ve never wet cleaned my records. The albums I have from the late 70s and 80s still sound great on my Pioneer PL-6, Technics SU-Z45 amp and new Sony open back headphones. Found an original Ortofon VMS20E Mk ii on eBay, which sounds great.. although little difference from the aftermarket 10E that I bought last year. Main reason for buying the Spin Clean is I’ve been buying a lot of second hand vinyl online. Some of it is pretty dirty.
I have been using the vinyl Styl record cleaner for awhile now and yes the cleaning solution that it comes with it is junk it will clog up your LP's and mess up your stylis . I make my own cleaner solution with distilled water and instead of alcohol I use white distilled vinegar and finish dishwasher no spot as a drying agent , then spray them with distilled water and put them in the drying rack. Works great but never dry them with a towel sure to get static that way.
Thank you very much sir, after this review i will be going online and buying one post haste. Thanks for the tip of making your own bath fluid, also about cleaning new vinyl, i will be doing that as well.Brillant video cheer's man Ian.
Cleaning a DEAN MARTIN record is really COOL, Sir! 👍👍👍
Well done, perfect!!
Love the King of Cool ! 💓
Hi, did you mention why you use 7% as opposed to 1% alcohol in another video? I can't seem to find it.
Thanks
I have the spin clean. It comes with concentrated cleaner. Just add distilled water and 2 cap full of cleaner. Also it doesn't have the spin adapter. I think for my self I'd hate to have to put that on every single record. I wonder if there is one that includes bother the pads and the goat hair? I have a couple cleaning nights once a year and clean my entire collection.
Does anyone have a problem to unscrew clamps after vinyl washing? My vinyl just stuck between them
Great review I've just purchased a Knosti after watching this. Have you got a link to the video about the Glycol liquid. ?
Working on that one :)
This looks like a "Spin-Cleen."
Vice versa, I would venture. The Disco has, I think, been around for something like 40 years. It’s a more effective cleaner too.
Anyone getting into records vinyl as its called now at least needs one of these i wouldn't play any second hand record unless it's been cleaned first
Hello Paul, many thanks for the very good and educational video. I must confess I still clean my records the old fashioned way and am seriously thinking about getting a cleaning machine. And here come my questions: first: how do the Knosti and the Spin Clean compare besides the price difference? Second: is it worth going beyond manual and getting something like the Project VC-E or VC-S? Linked to that: do these machines do a better/more thorough job than the manual ones? Thanks in advance. Kind regards, Ignacio
Hi Ignacio - The basic difference between the Spin Clean and the Disco is down to how each cleans. The former uses foam pads, the latter uses goat hair brushes. The foam pads are no where near as effective. I've done an A-B test. Yes, it's worth going beyond manual, as long as you have the budget. Next up is a RCM like the Pro-Ject. Up from there is an ultrasonic cleaner.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thanks a lot for the very quick reply, Paul, much appreciated. Indeed, budget is consideration. Overall, would you say the Disco does a thorough job and that after cleaning the record you can really hear the difference (meaning no more snack, crackle, pop or very little)? Kind regards, Ignacio
@@ignicioperez4647 It does if you follow my manual vinyl cleaning guide :) Check out the link here: theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
@@TheAudiophileMan Many thanks again, Paul.Btw, I note there is a version 2 of the same machine. Is there any substantial difference with the previous model? Regards, Ignacio
In basic terms? No. I think it's mainly cosmetic.
First I clean dry with brush and some velvet cleaner, before using the washer.
It would be nice if you found some non-copyright records and let us hear the difference for ourselves. Also, I find it strange that you claim to have tested a spin clean, but you just show a stock image of one and not the real thing in person?
Where to start? :)
Spin Clean? I reviewed this many years ago (it’s an old product) for the UK national HiFi mag, HiFi World. I’ve been writing for them for many years and still do (I’m not a full-time UA-camr). I’ve reviewed a host of products for them that are not visible on this channel. I’ve been working for HiFi World for far longer than I’ve been running his channel. This channel has been around for 5 minutes by comparison. Make enquiries at the magazine if you want to see the original review. I'm sure it’s in the archive somewhere.
Copyright? Producing vinyl is an expensive business. I’d be fascinated to hear of anyone who has invested a lot of cash into such a project and then declared their entire enterprise copyright free. Be happy to see that if you can provide links.
Live demos? Even if I found a piece of copyright-free vinyl, you wouldn’t be hearing the review product’s sonic capabilities. You would be hearing the capabilities of your chosen viewing device: phone, tablet, laptop, etc. Nothing more than that.
The moment the sound of the product even entered the microphone of the chosen recording device, the actual sonic envelope would be lost forever. Add to that the incredible compression techniques employed by UA-cam, the transferral of the sound across miles of cables and across storage devices and 50 other stops on the way…no. You’re hearing a nice noise. Nothing else.
Even if you do hear a ‘difference’. It’s means nothing at all. You’re hearing the difference between one processed sound and another.
So no. You won’t get that from my channel. Anyone who does this and tries to pass off that sonic output as a true representation of the product in question is, at best, being lazy (and you’re placing your consumer trust into this guy?) and/or lacking in knowledge (and you’re placing your consumer trust into this guy?) and, at worst, is deceiving their viewers (and you’re placing your consumer trust into this guy?)
@@TheAudiophileMan Haha, thank you so much for the detailed reply, here's the video where they used a supposedly non-copyright record, ua-cam.com/video/pj2MbDpP-HA/v-deo.html and discogs link: www.discogs.com/release/5576685-Arlene-Dahl-Co-Star-The-Record-Acting-Game (maybe it is copyrighted, but it just doesn't get picked up by youtube automatically? I'm not too knowledgeable about this stuff)
No problem. As for the link? I would say that's a game of Russian Roulette I wouldn't want to play in terms of my channel health and the risk of it being hit by copyright strikes. Good luck to anyone who does though. That album was released on Co*Star which is now owned by Warners. They'll get you in the end. Also, that album is spoken word only so would be valuable for specific frequency testing but poor for general testing.
I bought a Knosti Disco Antistat recently after a bit of research into what was available, but held off using it until I had completed a service of my Systemdek II XE 900 AP deck - (New drive belt, new bearing oil, some tweaks and a bit of a clean).
Once that was done I pulled out my Go-To test album, The Blue Nile - "A Walk Across The Rooftops" (Linn records- yes that 'Linn') It was a bit dusty to the eye so I gave it a quick wipe with a carbon fibre brush and played it. Plenty of pops and crackles from dust etc. I then cleaned it using the Disco machine and it was a huge improvement, taking away at least 95% of the noise. I have just cleaned about a hundred 7" singles (then getting them all into Tonar Nostatic inner sleeves, another recent purchase) and have started on the album collection. I consider it a bargain at the price given the price of albums now.
There is no way i'm scratching the labels on my expensive vinyl with that clamp.
Can anyone tell me, should I discard the cleaning solution after every record or every cleaning session of, say, 10 records or so?
I personally wait until around 30 washes and then change (depending on the condition of the vinyl you're cleaning). Yes, the water is being contaminated but I find the contamination level is not enough to impact the clean up to 30 times. BUT. But. I know people who have two baths. One for rinsing only and that's a great thing. I support it. I might do that myself in the future. For now? I'm happy with my single, lower-cost system.
@@TheAudiophileMan Thank you for your reply. I'm a bit late to the party to better than never..
It depends on how dirty the records are. Personally, I have re-used the solution after it has been filtered through all 5 filters in one go and only when it begins to look cloudy I will use a new batch.
It's the goat hair brushes that are, as you say, the star of the show. One error, though: when listing the devices that *don't* use such brushes, you inadvertently included the Disco-Antistat, when, presumably, you meant the Spin Clean.
I did? Then yes, I meant the SC.
What about the 2nd Gen. of this system? Same, better, worse?
I’m very new to vinyl. You have helped so much and I think you are amazing at breaking down all information to simple facts without being judgmental. So refreshing
Very nice of you, many thanks.
Hi Paul! Thanks for the amazing content of your website/channel. I’d like to ask your opinion about my record cleaning fluid composition. For a few years I’ve been using this combination of chemicals: 10 drops of triton, 450ml of distilled water, 36ml of 99% pure isopropyl alcohol and 4ml of propylene glycol. I spread the solution on the surface with a brush for a few minutes and then vacuum it off with my VPI machine. I rinse it off with distilled water twice each side. I get incredible results with it, but I wonder if this has been harmful to my records. Do you think so?
Another thing, I just purchased Tergikleen from eBay, I’m willing to give it a shot to see if I get better results. However, along with the bottle came a note with instructions saying NOT TO mix it with alcohol, otherwise I would be ruining the solution. So now I found myself completely lost! I’d appreciate if you could help me on this pickle! Thank you.
Hi Diego - might be easier for me to ask you to read my extensive vinyl cleaning guide first. Check that out, see what you think and then I'll be happy to take more questions if you have any after that : theaudiophileman.com/vinyl-cleaning-guide-part-1-manual-cleaning/
Super :-)