Shooting my Savage Model 11 308 and Verifying my Nikon BDC Scope
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- Опубліковано 26 кві 2015
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With my bear hunt only few days away I needed to verify my Savage Model 11 .308 with Nikon BDC scope was hitting where the Nikon Spot on Website was saying it should be hitting using the Nosler Trophy Grade Accubond ammunition that I planned to use on my hunt.
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Btw..make sure you always sight in at your scopes highest magnification for any BDC reticle system to work correctly also...magnification definitely changes point of aim with BDC or mil dot reticles.
I appreciate how honest and real you are, so many guys these days will come up with any other excuse besides their shooting ability. I'm not proficient outside of 200yds and need to go to the range more often. Good job man keep it up!
The wind dude. Account for the wind.
You are probably right on the money.
Don't adjust your scope.
First thing I thought of after he moved it out past 300 yds and if you pay attention to the evergreen the target is against the wind is blowing the needles to the left so that's a definite sign its a windage problem. And its to far left to be caused by a scope that is slightly canted. Keep in mind I am shooting the same model rifle topped with the same 3-9 Nikon with BDC...
I really appreciate that you plan to only take a shot you know you can make. Very honorable my friend
Oregon Mike Being a bow hunter has really taught me about careful shot selection and I plan to keep the same mind set with my rifle. Thanks for watching, Mike.
Jason
Oregon Mike Agreed.
How your eye survived this video I'll never know....
On god I was thinking the same thing
Thank you, very informative. Just bought mine today, excited to get out there!
A good tip for 150 grain bullets is to zero the scope at 100 yards. First reticle points is 200 yards, second one is 300.
I would try a different brand off ammo iv had good luck Remington pointed core lok. I know thay are cheaper but iv had better groups with them then Winchester ballistic silvertips. it was because of my rifling in Barrel it liked the slower ammo. Winchester ballistic silvertips 6 " group
Remington 1"group
It's a whole different game between bows and guns! :) Good luck on your hunt! Great job sighting it in, we're usually only 100 yards when we sight in and when we hunt. The closer you get, the more accurate you'll be, especially with that Savage. Again, good luck!!
Armed Rogue I sighted it in at 100 I just wanted to check the accuracy of the BDC. The bow hunter in me wants to get as close as possible, but this is big open country so we will just have to see how things go. Thanks for watching.
Jason
Jason, to my mind, your maximum effective distance is amazingly long at 300 yards! It must have been satisfying to figure out the adjustments so well! Great show my friend!
Juanelo1946 Thanks but to be honest I don't want to take that long of a shot on a animal I know that it is big country and guys take those type of shots all the time but if I can I am going to get closer. Thanks for for watching my friend.
Jason
You are doing quite well for a new rifleman good job and keep it up! Just food for thought wind will push your bullet and you may want to play with different weight and brand of bullets. Some barrels will group awesome with heavy bullets and not so great with lighter bullets and vice versa. For instance my .243 shoots 100gr hornady American whitetail 3 shot groups at 200 yards that can be covered with a dime and it shoots 100gr Remington coreloks in a 3 shot group that is around 3 1/2 inches which isn't bad but the hornady is far superior in this gun. Also bullet weight can change the hold over dots on your scope. Those dots are set with a certain barrel length and bullet weight so they are really just to get you in the ballpark it is up to you to shoot at various distances and write down how many inches high or low you need to aim using the particular ammo you choose at those distances.
+Preying Mathis Thanks for all the great advice the ammo was givin to me so that had a lot to do with my choice, but I understand what your saying.
Jason
Those hold over dots from Nikon were calibrated for 168gr hpbt match ammo at 2680fps. Shoot different weights or velocities and thermal will be some variations.
Hey Jason, Glad to see you are making progress with your .308 and the logical/critical thinking you are applying. Shooting at these ranges can be a mystery some times when things don't go exactly how we expect. I was pleased you shot a an additional group when your second string seemed low. Moving on would have yielded results that you could not be confident in but you solved the mystery.
I was happy to see you figured out the cant issue. Even when you know it is a problem cant can be hard to spot. Even the pros can induce enough cant to spoil a shot and not realize it. Without some tools it can be almost impossible to fix 100%. One trick for while you are practicing is to hang a weight from a longish piece of flagging tape within about a foot of your target. this will provide a highly visible vertical reference for you.
You can also install a level on your scope tube. These can be spendy but I think worth while if you are going to shoot in the 250 yard and up range.
One other technique I thought could be useful for you is to use a bean bag under the butt stock and a bicep sling. This technique is prominent in John Plaster's Ultimate Sniper book. It really does make for a great shooting platform. By the way Plaster's book ultimate sniper is a great reference. The techniques on shooting are completely applicable to all manner of precision rifle shooting not just military application.
Have you printed a wind drift chart for your bullets? I'm not sure what bullets you are using but a chart like this for your specific projectile is a key to shooting in the wind. www.rifleshootermag.com/files/2010/09/rswind_values480c.gif
this info is also key:
www.rifleshootermag.com/files/2010/09/rswind_values300a.gif
HardWayLearnt Thanks for all the information, Jason. I don't think I would have ever realized the cant if not been for the the fact I was archer hunter, canting a compound will definitely cause accuracy issues. The flagging tape would have been a great idea I will have to try that the next time I go shooting. I will check out the wind drift chart, I was shooting Nosler Accubonds. Thanks again.
Jason
Finally someone reviewing the standard model 11 and not the damn 11 scout.
Gusty wind will scatter your group, the longer the bullet's in the air the more it's pushed around
I've been told buying a cheap scope or a .22 scope wont work for a .308 rifle because every time you fire the gun will force move the cross-airs in the scope. Is this true ? I bought a Simons scope for 80$ will I be okay ?
I don't believe that the reticle or cross hairs will move, but there are other reasons a 22 scope is not suited for a 308 rifle. first the calibration and focus for a 22 scope will be made for a shorter range. The 308 is considered a long range cartridge, the rimfire is not. Secondly the eye relief is all wrong. To see through the narrow 22 scope you'll need to have your eye rather close to the scope. Mount it on a 308 and you'll get a big old punch in the eye and your face will be bleeding. The rimfire has essentially no recoil, the 308 has a pretty strong one, enough to hurt yourself. Get a proper scope for the 308.
Dave B you are right about that. the 308 can hurt you lol it happen once to me.... haha
I have the M -308 scope on my LR 308 . Great scope , lil practice and no problem
I have the same gun with a 2-10x40 Minox ZA5 scope. The rifle has both the accutrigger and accustock and is a tack driver.
I like to do my setup shooting in a manner that will eliminate as many non-gun variables (like the wind) as possible.
I could hear the wind howling and gusting during your video review ... not the best day to set up a rifle.
My rifle will consistently put 3 shots thru one ragged hole @ 100 yards.
Wind was a problem but wind is often a way of life here especially in the late winter early spring when I shot this video. I have since resighted this in and I am very impressed with it accuracy. Thanks for watching.
Jason
Just food for thought, try and think about finger position on the trigger. Try and center it in the meat of your finger tip. If the trigger is too far to the left or right of your finger, you could be pulling and pushing the gun when squeezing the trigger.
+LakeCity9341 Thanks for the tip I will pay more attention to that the next time I go out and shoot.
Jason
Right on Jason, that some great stuff!!! It isn't easy to shoot past 300 yards. I always hear people buying these 1500 dollar rifles and trying to shoot to 500 and get mad and sell it... Keep up the good work buddy, you are making huge improvements... Glad you could find a use for the target!!
Todd
Central Oregon Survival Network Thanks, Todd it was fun shooting out that far and I would definitely like to put in some more practice and the target worked great.
Jason
Right on buddy, hope you are doing well....
It amazes me that people have trouble shooting 500 with a magnified bolt gun.
Iron sights with an M16 at 500 was a breeze. Granted thats a silhouette, but still.
you have a very good rifle there. model 11 is same as model 10 as far as getting after market items and action. i put a $99.00 Boyds thumb-hole stock on mine and is a tack driver. as others have said you need to try several types of ammo and bullet weights to get the best groups.Nikon scopes are very clear and hold zero too. Savage Rifles are kinda off the radar but are very accurate out of the box. plus if you want to do ANY up grades you call them and tell them what you want to do and they will tell you what you need to do. in this day that is a good thing with people talking to ya. good luck n happy new year. subbed ya too.
You need a BIPOD when shooting at 200/300/400 Yards. Or like someone said sand bags, but the BI can be taken to the field.
+james wright Yeah, I think that is a good idea I will have to get a bipod.
Jason
Bipods are not panaceas. If you can't get into a prone shooting position, that bipod becomes nothing more than extra weight hanging from your rifle. Many experienced shooters use shooting sticks.
Good stuff Jason. I really enjoyed this. I am not a long distance shooter either. And I must say...you're giving me the itch man and I have a LOOONG way till my next hunting season lol
Feral Woodcraft I am not either but after being in that country I could see where being able to shoot out to 300 yds is definitely helpful we were often glassing across canyons that were 2000 yds wide, unfortunately it was bad year and no one was seeing bears, but I did get some great footage of another animal that I am really excited to show you guys.
Jason
Oh man, don't tease like that! Get to editing already lol
I’ve been in this position a few times,sighting in my Remington Tactical 700....Are You estimating/Adjusting for windage? It might help getting better more accurate groups at longer ranges....Keep being patient & doing your shooting taking your time,getting to know your setup💪
Im sure by now you have figured out what was the problem with you're rifle not grouping well. If you're still using same ammunition try other ammunition & grain combinations regardless of the wind you should see better results once you find the right one. For starting point try Federal 168gr Sierra Match King BTHP if you aren't already. That's what Savage does all testing with in the 308 & 30-06 cal. I believe at 100 yds. Hope this can help someone.
Good luck on your hunt!
Central Oregon Desert Explorers Thanks I think its going to be a blast.
Jason
I see a lot of barrel jump. The rifle should slide straight back into your shoulder. Maybe if you take off your sling studs if you have them, they could be hanging up?
I was just gifted a savage model 111 chambered for .308 topped with a Nikon Prostaff 3-9x40 with a BDC reticle so you can imagine how happy I was to search for how to use my BDC reticle and the first thing that popped up was you with the same rifle/scope combo I have... Thanks for the video it helped alot but I hope I am a better shot than you lol..
How did it go?
And also you don't pick the ammo for your rifle. The rifle picks. Get yourself several brands of ammo and let the rifle show you what it likes. You may find that it prefers the nosler trophy grade but it is best to put it in competition and find what it likes.. Very rarely does a rifle choose the ammo I want it to shoot lol
+Preying Mathis My Savage 11FCNS likes the Federal factory ammo loaded with 150 grain Barnes copper alloy bullet.
My arsenal has shrunk to 4 rifles (3x 308 Win & 1 x 300 Win Mag) and gradually over the years I quit handloading since factory ammo has improved so much and is as good as anything I can handload. There is a ton of selection in factory ammo for the .308 Win and you can always find a choice that will shoot well in your gun. By "well" I mean acceptable hunting accuracy.
This isn't necessarily so. Bullet construction and terminal performance matters. I will happily give up a reasonable amount of accuracy to gain better terminal performance in a hunting situation. DRT sure as shit beats a ten mile hike tracking a wounded beast through the woods.
I'm not sure of the ammunition you are using in this video but it could be that the ammunition and the rifle just don't mesh well. But I do like the fact that you recognize the fact that you need a little more practice. If I was you I would buy some premium ammunition and give it a try. Sometimes the more budget type ammo isn't very consistent especially at further distances. Great video.
Buddy, you canted your rifle probably to one side and when you changed positon you canted it the other way. canting causes right and left in your groups. Good shooting from Switzerland.
Have same gun & scope and can hold 1 & 1/2" groups @ 400 yards.
I'm looking on getting into the rifle hunting game with this same rifle as well,maybe the 116. I've done a bunch of looking around on the web and some tips I've read from others with Savage Trophy Package, is to put some LockTite on the scope mount screws because people have said they tend to be a little loose or come loose after a couple shots causing them irritating inconsistency and flyers. I'm not guaranteeing anything because I'm new to the game, just my .02 cents from what I have read and researched
+Jesus Alvarado Jr. Thanks for the suggestion but I have checked the scope and seems to be securely mounted I feel pretty sure I just need more practice.
Jason
You can't go by velocity on the box. They are tested from 22 " so you lose velocity so that's showing at your longer ranges. A chronograph is great for your initial velocities and sighting in for the BDC. Your windage is off probably not calculating the wind and your not taking your time with the shots slow down and control your breathing.
It looks like you're getting it dialed in....I sure hope you get a crack at one, best of luck!
backyardmeat Thanks but never did get a chance at one unfortunately :(
Jason
Looking forward to seeing some bear hunting footage from you primalarcher. Nice shooting, my friend. I'm envious of your logo intro at the beginning of the video. Over the summer, I am going to try to develop a moving logo of sorts to put at the beginning of my videos...
Take care,
~Ridgewalker
Peakbaggers For Cancer Thanks, I really hope we get into some bears and I can get some good footage. Don't be to envious of the my logo check fiverr.com. Thanks for watching and take care.
Jason
Great, thanks for the website idea!
The true muzzle velocity is slower than the listed. Adjust it in the app until it hits where the scope says it will
Definitely wind is a factor. You may be adding different wind between 200 and 300. It will push that bullet a few inches.
Get rid of the Nikon and scope mounts. I had the exact same combo and the mounts wouldn't stay tight. Went to a 4x12 40 Vortex Diamondback and better mounts, she's a tack driver now.
Cool vid, dude. Wind drift has a lot to do with it at 300. Also, I've never seen a drop compensator that worked as advertised out to 500. I used to have one on an '06, and I had to figure out what yardage worked for each reticle. So, it was more like 100, 175, 250, and 400. I never killed passed about 250, much less 400 or 500, and am really skeptical when someone says they do. Most long range shooters are shooting 15 to 30 inch targets and getting two out of three hits...not nearly good enough for hunting, imho.
briargoatkilla I was pretty surprised to find that Nikon was spot on at least with the first 2 I didn't check the third I figured 300 was far enough, lol. Thanks for the comment.
Jason
Enjoyed the video it does sound like wind might be an issue, & I felt you were somewhat off in your prone position. I think if you keep shooting & try different ammo's you'll put 3 shots into an inch or so regularly. Try watching some video's on shooting technique's. That's how I learned & it has worked well for me. plenty of good advice also posted by other viewer's . Good luck
Sight Picture keeps changing. Possible too much finger on the trigger due to lateral drift of grouping rounds.
Good video.
Glad you enjoyed it.
Jason
is there any one who has a savage mark ll 308 scout I am looking forward to hear from others about this rifle
What's a good aftermarket stock for that rifle? I can't get comfortable with mine shooting. I'm a big guy and the stock doesn't fit me all too well.
Bed your rifle at the recoil lug and the very back of where the stock meets the metal on the rifle where the safety is, there is videos on UA-cam about it, basically every time you shoot, the rifle should be hitting in the same hole as long as your rifle is steady every time you shoot
Did you check the changes woth the zoom on your scope? its not the same measurement using x3, than x5 or x9.... maybe you had some problems because of that? it would be interesting to know if you changed zoom or not...
my rifle had shots all over when the ammo was to fast.
Work out what round works best for that rifle then sight in at 100yrds 1-2 moa then work the scope....it's definitely the round.
05:34 That is the tough part. You were on target at 300 yards but not where you needed to kill a deer. Believe it or not, that shot you had would be a confirmed hit for a military sniper because they are not trying for a lung and heart shot or brachial plexus shot, they are just trying to put 220 grains or so into a 20 inch wide target out to 500 yards. And you have accomplished that, in the wind. But shooting deer in an 8 inch pie plate is quite tough.
That's not bad for your first shots at 300 yards. I bet within a few more sessions of shooting at that distance your group will be half that size.
Coyote Works Thanks I really enjoy shooting that gun and would like to continue to practice with it more.
Jason
Minute of angle. Youre going to have some drop from that distance. You should get a book on "doping your scope". You may also find some good videos explaining it. But the left/right is probably you. I noticed youre not letting the recoil come straight back, but instead letting the barrel go wild. Just try some muzzle control and watch your breathing.
Looks to me that the scope is off a little, tilted to the right
you can get more accurate by making sure the barrel is free floated.
The shots probably moved left due to wind. Especially at that range
Jason what is your chest pack in this video....More info please
Why would u adjust ur scope in that kind of wind when it probably wasn't that bad wen u zeroed the gun
A target with 1 inch increments would have been nice for this
Where can I get me one of those sweet chest rigs
The chest rig is made by me you can see a more in depth video at www.primalecs.com.
Thanks
Jason
Matthew Fox . definitely the wrong zeroing target
My wife gets her chest rigs at Victoria's secret.
Was there a specific reason or reasons you chose the Savage Model 11?
Thanks for sharing.
***** Not really, I was able to buy the whole package scope and rifle for $450.00, so it came down to the fact that was good deal on what felt was quality rifle.
Jason
Savage rifles are inexpensive and stupid accurate for the most part. There is an enormous aftermarket for customizing your Savage rifle. The only real downside to most Savage rifles is a slightly rough action (this can be smoothed with some work) and a heavy bolt lift.
where can i get the pack you are wearing in this video? thanks for the video...
Sorry for the late reply just returned from a week of archery hunting, its called the Essential Carry System and I make them you can learn a more about it in this video ua-cam.com/video/pGXGciNSKlk/v-deo.html. To order one email me at primaloutdoors@outlook.com.
Jason
To me it looks like your scope is not leveled on your rifle the way the shots are progressively moving farther left with distance
you have to compensate for the wind.
I see this video is already two years old. how did your bear hunting go?
It was a great trip but no bears ua-cam.com/video/j7ufUZeOkSE/v-deo.html.
Jason
Maybe the ammo?
Good bow hunters make outstanding rifle hunters !
your doing just fine !
300 yards is a long shot
especially for bear .
We always want be sure and make a clean kill on dangerous game
We sure don't want wounded bears looking for easy prey = people
Thanks for sharing your experience !
Im no expert but make sure the gun is level. The cross hairs are perfectly up and down
how many clicks does an inch translate into on a scope, lets say at 100 yards?
+spontaneous1200 at a hundred yards it would be 4 clicks, quarter inch per click.
Jason
thank you
you need more range time and an instructor to assist with corrections. every flaw you have will show more with range. a rifle stock fitted for you is something most overlook. especially if you don't fit in the "normal average man" stature.
Agreed, thank you for watching.
Jason
What does your 25 or 100 yard zero look like? That could help to provide some explanation as to your shot groups here. You might be happy with your groups for a man size target, but if you are hunting an animal with those groups then you are going to quite possibly wound a lot of them and not recover them, and that would be a shame.
Did you live?
It was windy at 200 yards
nice
Try To Cook This Thanks,
Jason
My first 600 yd shot with my Nikon BDC scope was only 4 inches high. That was high because I forgot to update my spot on app to current atmospheric conditions plus redial my zero. Shoot your smmo over a chronograph to find the velocity standard deviation that needs to be low. I handload so my loads are in the single digit SD. How did you come up with your velocity for your ammo? You can't go by the box it's usually not accurate enough. Ammo has different velocities out of different barrels. Like I said shoot it over some type of chrony. Remember garbage in garbage out put solid accurate info into Spot on and you will get accurate info. Factory ammo will usually never shoot as good as a hand loaded round. How did you read the wind? You need to buy a Krestel to enter correct wind speeds. Like I said garbage in garbage out.
Matthew Jones I did just go by the stats Nosler had on their site 300 yards is good enough for me I don't need to shoot any further but if I change my mind someday I will get more accurate information. Thanks for the very good post.
Jason
what is you thought about the rifle? I am about to order my self one 30-06.
+Javier Ramires I am not gun expert but this is a purchase I am glad I made I went and did some shooting with this rifle last weekend and I really enjoy shooting it.
Jason
well after I see you video I order one, now I am on waiting for 10 days because I am in California.
This is why you use white steel plates
Thank you for all the work but I think you need to concentrate on your shooting to be precise because you don't get a proper result. Therefore you can come to any conclusion to see if Nikon spot on is correct or not. Maybe you need a better gun rest or else.
Change your ammo to fiocchi 150grn.
Might you be tightening your jaw as you send the round? That pushes the butt to the right, impact left.
Really not bad shooting. 300 yds is a long way. Ive hunting all kinds of stuff throughout western NA and out of all the shot Ive taken on critters, if it's getting out past 300 yds and the wind is blowing it doesn't feel like a good shot to me. And since Im after an ethical kill I usually won't take the shot. Keep in mind that shooting uphill down hill effects point of impact too. Even if its just a few degrees. Here is a decent resource: www.millettsights.com/downloads/shootinguphillanddownhill.pdf
It was obviously the wind was blowing pretty good so take that into account for your drift. It takes al of of practice to shoot out at long ranges.
That being said bears aren't that hard to put a sneak on. Getting to within 100 yds is pretty easy as long as you mind the wind direction. They aren't as skittish as deer or elk. When I lived in AK, I shot quite a few black bears at 50 yds or less with a 4570 with open sites. Its some good tasting meat, just make sure to cook it well done. I cooked all of mine with pressure cooker that way I knew I was safe. Bears carry Trichinosis and that is not something you want to mess around with.
www.petersenshunting.com/uncategorized/steven-rinella-the-bear-facts-on-trichinosis/
Good luck with your hunt!!
4570levergun Thanks for all the info. I am well aware of the bears and Trichinosis so I usually cook mine in stews or roasts in slow cooker, but I like the pressure cooker idea as well. If I can I am going to try and stalk as close as I can I am not real keen on shooting those types of distances. As for the up hill down hill my range finder compensates for that so if I range something on a incline it will give me the correct yardage I need to aim for, you have the same problem when shooting a bow. Again thanks for taking the time to provide all the info I really do appreciate it.
Jason
It's NOT the gun & scope ,
IT'S YOU !!!!!!!!!
You got some work to do. Practic practice and find a bullet that your rifle likes. With that grouping I wouldn't be taking it hunting. Then again I'm picky and want my rifle hitting 1 litre bottles at 500 yards.
"Long range" bear hunting with a .308? Does not compute.
He's shooting free range koalas;)
308 is more then adequate on a black bear out to 300 yards.
I hope you get to put your rifle to good use and get a shot on camera or some pictures of bears anyway...No doubt at 200 that those would be kill shots...It would be a dead bear and that's no doubt...If you could get yourself a bag full of sand you wouldn't believe the difference it makes shooting while shooting...I just bring a walmart bag and fill it up with sand when I go out...Good luck and I'm looking forward to the hunt...
Heith Gagnon Well I wish I could tell you I saw some bears but it was a bad year no one was seeing bears, there were several factors lack of snow, early melt off, to hot and full moon, I don't know which one had the most effect but either way the bears were not coming out and eating on hill sides like normal. I did get some video of another animal that I am really excited to show you guys that I think you will really like, so look forward to that in the next few days.
Jason
I want to shoot the off the shelf cheap stuff at Walmart... But My rifles seem to prefer Barnes or Hornady : (
Your canting or in short the scopes horizontal line is......Well never mind you figured it out LOL
Reason I thought that was you were shooting right then left and not staying in the center
300 yards will not hardly move a bullet with wind that much unless it is blowing 40 mph or or more and a 40 mph wind would drown your voice completely out unless you were screaming
Go back and reside at a 100 yrd ,and a less windy day good luck
windy
the scope hits his eye lol
You wont shoot at 300 yards Bowhunting.....Unless you're Cam Hanes,with a Hoyt Carbon super vector turbo!!!!
3:14
Lol
I would bet you that shooting off the soft blankets with no forend support may be the reason your shots are all over the place.
That's a HORRIBLE group I would throw that gun or scope away if it grouped like that.
I own 3 Mdl 11's. >308 Winchester, 22-250 Remington & a .223 Remington.. All of them will shoot hole in holes out to 400 yards. I'm thinking You might benefit muchly from spending some time at an actual Gun Range with known yardages and solid benches so you can develop the basics of proper shooting techniques. I noticed in the first part of the video you are not securing the rifle when you squeeze the trigger causing the muzzle to jump. This ain't Hollywood kiddo. Being accurate with a high powered rifle takes time, experience, patience and attention to the details...
Dude...not trying to insult...but no scope, bdc reticle etc can help poor shooting skills, habits, and practices..lol. Its evident that You need alot more range time and practice...those groups attest to that..lol