Faithful Mormon historian B.H. Roberts wrote a book titled "Studies of the Book of Mormon" wherein he stated that Joseph Smith was "brilliant" and had a '"creative imagination" which gave him the ability to write the Book of Mormon on his own. The later 'revelations" which Smith supposedly received on the fly, and which are published in the Doctrine and Covenants, are ample evidence of that ability. For the Mormon church to continue to promote the idea that Joseph Smith was an ignorant farm boy is just misrepresentation at best and outright lying at worse.
dsekjockie49. Smith was clever and resourceful, no doubt ,but he did not have the polish of an academically educated person. He had a lot more help from Sydney Rigdon than most realize or acknowledge.
@@thenowchurch6419 so do you feel it was just edited and revised by Sidney? Influenced insertions? Dan Vogel doesn't feel Sidney was really a source, because the book would have been a lot less poetic, and a better book in general. Haha. Do you have any good video recommendations to listen to about Sidney's possible involvement?
@@bonojennett I am not aware of any video but I may be able to locate some website articles which demonstrate that Sidney was well acquainted with the doctrines of Emanuel Swedenborg, for instance pertaining to Christians being able to maintain marriage in Heaven and have normal sexual relations there. There are quite a few points that seem to come from Swedenborg into Mormon theology, for which Sidney is the prime candidate as the source. Here is one: www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_derive_the_idea_of_" Here is another: scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2020/04/did-writings-of-e. Peace and blessings.
:) Yosemite Sam and Hillbilly Hal's first hand-written edition of the BoM before subsequent errors were changed: "The Lamanites they was a-comin' up to battle..." That right there was my favorite quote from the video.
Everyone that has ever written & published a book - has written a first book. Some of the most revered authors of today didn't receive a typical or classical education : Charles Dickens (removed from school at age 12) Jack London; H.G. Wells; Mark Twain, Jane Austen and George Bernard Shaw --- these men wrote some incredible complex stories that we study today -- so yes, I can totally believe Joseph Smith capable of writing the book of Mormon. But I still think he had the help of at least one conspirator, just to bounce ideas off of, because I doubt the esteemed authors I listed above created their books in a vacuum. A lack of education doesn't indicate a lack of intellect. (and vice versa) ... a supposition often assumed. I would suggest that the gold plates are a McGuffin.
I don’t see the Book of Mormon as all that “amazing” or even complex. Much of it is repetitive, the general theme is stated over and over, and it doesn’t inspire, even as a work of fiction. Msybe i will read it again just to make sure I’m not being unfair
He was uneducated as far as Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT) is concerned. Had he understood God's Word contextually. He would not have invented the "reformed Egyptian" language (which is the 1779 KJV language BTW).
A number of books were plagiarized to create the book of Mormon. Thanks to UA-camr 'Gently Hew Stone', it has now become apparent that Joseph Smith could not have possibly created the book of Mormon all on his own. There had to be a group of scholars who came together, with all of the works mentioned below, and together they created the book of Mormon and then handed it to Joseph Smith. Joseph may have had some involvement also but we cannot know for sure how much he was involved. Could a poorly educated man like Joseph Smith have pulled together so many written works to construct his book on his own? Think about it!
He was fairly unschooled, or uneducated....this DOES NOT mean however, that he was not INTELLIGENT. I believe that Joseph Smith was probably one of the most creative and intelligent people during his time period. How else can you craft and maintain such a huge lie, and get people to buy into it hundreds of years later. Education and intelligence are completely different qualities. While its true that becoming very educated requires a certain amount of intelligence, the converse isn't necessarily true. Intelligence is more intrinsic. Small children for example, can demonstrate above average intelligence, while not even being able to read.
There is no denying that Junior was "intelligent" and "creative". I don't think anyone disputes that claim. However, Con-Artists/self-proclaimed prophets, such as him, tend to be highly intelligent and creative. This does not refute the deceptive practice & methods he applied on others, to lead them astray. A snake-oil salesman is what comes to mind.
As far as I understand, Joseph Smith was educated in hebrew though probably more the structure and the biblical aspects of it and not the Jewish hebrew is his day. He was quite educated in theology, but more self educated.
So....isnt the BofM supposed to be a summary of other records? Therefore it would be understandable of one dimension characters, lacking of reptetative references of currency, etc......there instead of a colossal moving novel...it has been summarized , condensed.
Excellent video. I'm sure Joseph wrote the BOM, complete with its simple story structure and a thousand grammatical errors. He was a gifted orator and story teller with the ability to quote Bible verses. The plates are a complete fabrication but were the 'hook' he needed to start a following. I have a university education, but I am always amazed at men who have an excellent command of the Bible but otherwise have no more than a high school education and work as laborers.
Sections of the D&C show Joseph Smith had an amazing skill for dictating original scripture. The same skill could produce the book of Mormon. You can believe his talent was a gift from God or not. I do think it's impressive even if he made it up, so I get annoyed that people dismiss the book of Mormon. Just read it knowing these are Joseph Smith's ideas presented through pseudonyms like nephi, alma, Moroni, etc...
36 sworn affidavits link Rigdon and Spalding together in the creation of the BoM. The most compelling is that of Spalding's wife to the Boston Recorder Newspaper. Rigdon was a voracious studier and reader of History and theology from an early age. Rigdon was ten years older than J.S. He was an experienced preacher. Rigdon worked at the same printshop in Pittsburg where Spalding sent his manuscripts. The church is formed in 1830, the first place they visit 3 months later just happens to be Kirtland, OH. I wonder why. Oh, Rigdon is there and magically says that the BoM is amazing and true, and that the church is true, after years of battling debates with Alexander Campbell over the smallest minutia of theological differences. But here comes this 23 year old that everybody else laughs at and Rigdon believes him? Also, J.S. makes Rigdon his co-equal literally two months after Rigdon's baptism. Stanford's peer reviewed study in 2008 shows decisively that Rigdon and Spalding were in fact the authors of a majority of the BoM. That is science.
For anyone stumbling across this comment, I just want to point out that the 2008 study was debunked a year later by a team at BYU (Schaalje et al., 2009) that showed the methodology used in the Jockers (2008) study was deeply flawed. The Jockers study used a closed set of 7 potential authors, so the study only actually showed who of those 7 most closely matched each portion of the BOM. To demonstrate how flawed the methodology was the Schaalje team used the same methodology on the Federalist Papers and showed that the Jockers methodology showed Rigdon to be the author, when Alexander Hamilton was excluded from the set. Using an "open set" the Schaalje methodology accurately selected Hamilton as the author and "none of the above" authorship when he was excluded. This methodology indicated "none of the above" for both Joseph Smith and Rigdon/Spalding authorship when run against the BOM text.
There are earthworks. Once covered by trees, they're now uncovered. Amazing finds. Earthworks is the correct word because they are different than pyramids.
I saw on a recent Facebook post that a scientist found arrowheads in a bed stream as claims they are from the BofM stories. Any podcast about that? Aloha 🌺
watson 67, At least 40 different authors through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It’s amazing how it comes together as a beautifully colored tapestry, much of which is prophetic about, and culminates in, the fullness of the revelation of the Lord Jesus. Reading the OT gives us a glimpse of what Jesus explained to the two men on the road to Emmaus. If you haven’t studied the Word of God, you’re missing out. Stacy - a former Mormon, now Christian
Tom Miller, I already saw some of all of them when they came out. Mr Bokovoy holds a minority position and one I would never agree with, nor would many other Christian Scholars of his same caliber. But everyone has their reasons and agendas. Have you ever studied the Bible to find Jesus?? Have you studied the prophetic passages about the coming Messiah (e.g. Ps 53, etc) and found the echoes, types, anti-types, allusions, and shadows, of the revelation of the fullness of Jesus Christ in the OT? It’s a lengthy study but deep, and very rich. One doesn’t have to be a scholar to understand the Word of God. Really, all that’s required is a humble and open heart to God, by faith. His Word’s lasted for thousands of years and led millions to Christ, which has always been the Holy Spirit’s intent. Thus, it particularly speaks to the young and old, rich and poor, learned and unlearned - and particularly to those who know they’re broken. 🕊
Tom Miller, If you don’t believe in any God or any hell, how can you believe in Jesus, who was God (the Word) in human flesh? Moreover, which things would you know to toss? You haven’t studied the Bible, either.
So, here in Part 1, the gist seems to be that Joseph Smith alone composed the BOM. This is something no other author past or present has been able to do (publish a historical and spiritual record testifying of Jesus Christ). Are you conceding he was a genius? Also, I’m still waiting to hear HOW he could do that. I can’t wait to watch Part 2…
There are actually many Christian psuedopigraphical writings. Most people have enough humility that they don't pretend to speak for God when God isn't speaking to them. Joseph Smith's narcissism allowed him to do this.
I say! Get a life people before you run out of time... of course the book of Mormon depends on the bible; the word of God is eternal and God is always the same, and if you don't believe that the Book of Mormon is ancient scripture from God, and that was translated by Joseph Smith then you don’t believe that the bible is the word of God that was translated to english as the KJV and other versions in different languages .. you are making fulls of your selves pursuing a fight agains God through your unbelief...
No, the problem is that the Book of Mormon contains page after page of KJV verses word by word copies, including translation errors. Since the Book of Mormon is a perfect translation dictated by God (tight translation), why does it contain KJV errors? Because it was not dictated by God, but Smith dictated the verses directly from the KJV. So the narration of a direct revelation from God is wrong. Instead, the BoM is composed by Smith by telling a narrative, and whenever he wants to include a Bible verse or chapter, he copies it from the KJV. An inspired translation would reveal us perfect Bible verses without proven translation errors (and without biblical anachronisms).
@@charlesmendeley9823 well you could arcue that the alleged golden plates already hadd errors on them to beging with, like how the scribes coping an older text would also copy the errors with them. also taking copies from a translation isnt someting new since the new testament taking often the verses directly from the greek old testament Septuagint.
@@micromikael4806 I am talking about KJV translation errors, I e. errors which were not in the Septuagint but which were made by the KJV translators when King James ordered the translation. There is no way these could get into the Book of Mormon unless a) Joseph copied from the KJV, or b) God intentionally dictated the verses including errors, which makes no sense when the overall goal of the endeavor is a restoration.
@@charlesmendeley9823 that doenst really cange my point about septuagint, since many at that time tought septuagint was a holy translation, and thats why some cristian brance still using that as themes official testament. and you have to also remember that the same have been said to the KJV ( and not only by some mormons but also the KJV onlyist like that of baptist church for exemple ) so just keep that in mind.
untrained translators frequently transpose phrasing and words into their own idiom and dialect. i'm not a mormon, i have no dog in this fight, but this is a poor analysis, quite dependent on Hamer's own biases and (probably purposeful) neglect of other hypotheses
The Testimony of Eight Witnesses Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it. Christian Whitmer Jacob Whitmer Peter Whitmer, Jun. John Whitmer Hiram Page Joseph Smith, Sen. Hyrum Smith Samuel H. Smith
@Jim Queen The same way the rest of the educated world knows. All the evidence leans towards fabrication. A golden bible, no one is allowed to see apart from those whipped up into a mystical trance, which then disappears after being translated by a self-proclaimed prophet putting his head into a hat with a seer stone. Come on, do you want to buy a bridge I have for sale?
Study how? He teaches sermons on the Book of Mormon. He studies it the same way he studies medieval religious texts. Are you looking for a repeat of Sunday school?
@@melissamybubbles6139 Repeat of Sunday school, no. I just expect him to be more familiar with the contents of the Book of Mormon. I don't think he backs up his claims very well and when he does much of it is demonstrably false. Like "when Jesus comes, he doesn't use the Nephite currency". I mean, that's exactly what he does. In 3rd Nephi 12 he is using the 'senine' introduced in Alma 11. Which is also one of very many examples to contradict the claim that JS doesn't have to remember much at a time because the BoM doesn't refer to other parts of the text some distance away
@@thesafespace1765 It's one example. Of course it doesn't discount the overall claim. The comment space on YT doesn't allow for a complete rebuttal, but maybe this will help: drive.google.com/open?id=1wO9ZcW3gbRRqYGFkd6W8yi7E6LqzT35B
You are correct that this video wasn’t intended for simpletons. This is a high level academic presentation in several hour long parts that takes active engagement to comprehend. It’s not simply a 5 minute Vice video explaining Joseph smith. Look elsewhere if that is your style.
Hmmm you realize that there are 8 witnesses to the gold plates, or what the book of Mormon, was translated from. He used gifts of God. Please consider this before you spread blasphemy
Ethan, I am currently a member of the church who is questioning some things about its history. One thing I notice is that the characters from the Gold Plates bear a slight resemblance to characters found in books on folk magic that families like the Smiths would have had in their possession. Books like the 8th and 9th books of moses have magical parchments containing characters similar to what allegedly came off the plates. This is when I began to ask questions.
@@jaquino451 No need. I renounced Mormonism almost a year ago. Got a good laugh out of the South Park thing. Getting ready to enroll in the Salvation Army.
The plates were the inspiration for the BOM? Perfect. Fictional plates were the inspiration for a fictional book. Priceless!
Faithful Mormon historian B.H. Roberts wrote a book titled "Studies of the Book of Mormon" wherein he stated that Joseph Smith was "brilliant" and had a '"creative imagination" which gave him the ability to write the Book of Mormon on his own. The later 'revelations" which Smith supposedly received on the fly, and which are published in the Doctrine and Covenants, are ample evidence of that ability. For the Mormon church to continue to promote the idea that Joseph Smith was an ignorant farm boy is just misrepresentation at best and outright lying at worse.
dsekjockie49.
Smith was clever and resourceful, no doubt ,but he did not have the polish of an academically educated person.
He had a lot more help from Sydney Rigdon than most realize or acknowledge.
@@thenowchurch6419 so do you feel it was just edited and revised by Sidney? Influenced insertions? Dan Vogel doesn't feel Sidney was really a source, because the book would have been a lot less poetic, and a better book in general. Haha. Do you have any good video recommendations to listen to about Sidney's possible involvement?
@@bonojennett I am not aware of any video but I may be able to locate some website articles which demonstrate that Sidney was well acquainted with the doctrines of Emanuel Swedenborg, for instance pertaining to Christians being able to maintain marriage in Heaven and have normal sexual relations there.
There are quite a few points that seem to come from Swedenborg into Mormon theology, for which Sidney is the prime candidate as the source.
Here is one: www.fairmormon.org/answers/Question:_Did_Joseph_Smith_derive_the_idea_of_"
Here is another: scripturalmormonism.blogspot.com/2020/04/did-writings-of-e.
Peace and blessings.
@@thenowchurch6419 sorry neither of those links worked.
:) Yosemite Sam and Hillbilly Hal's first hand-written edition of the BoM before subsequent errors were changed: "The Lamanites they was a-comin' up to battle..."
That right there was my favorite quote from the video.
Can you add a link in the video description to the pdf of slides that you mentioned?
Everyone that has ever written & published a book - has written a first book. Some of the most revered authors of today didn't receive a typical or classical education : Charles Dickens (removed from school at age 12) Jack London; H.G. Wells; Mark Twain, Jane Austen and George Bernard Shaw --- these men wrote some incredible complex stories that we study today -- so yes, I can totally believe Joseph Smith capable of writing the book of Mormon. But I still think he had the help of at least one conspirator, just to bounce ideas off of, because I doubt the esteemed authors I listed above created their books in a vacuum. A lack of education doesn't indicate a lack of intellect. (and vice versa) ... a supposition often assumed.
I would suggest that the gold plates are a McGuffin.
I don’t see the Book of Mormon as all that “amazing” or even complex. Much of it is repetitive, the general theme is stated over and over, and it doesn’t inspire, even as a work of fiction. Msybe i will read it again just to make sure I’m not being unfair
44:58 They did make a sequel to star wars only knowing that the death star got blown up.
He was NOT uneducated!!! Sheez, it really bothers me when Mormons say this about Joseph Smith.
He was uneducated as far as Hebrew (OT) and Greek (NT) is concerned. Had he understood God's Word contextually. He would not have invented the "reformed Egyptian" language (which is the 1779 KJV language BTW).
A number of books were plagiarized to create the book of Mormon.
Thanks to UA-camr 'Gently Hew Stone', it has now become apparent that Joseph Smith could not have possibly created the book of Mormon all on his own.
There had to be a group of scholars who came together, with all of the works mentioned below, and together they created the book of Mormon and then handed it to Joseph Smith. Joseph may have had some involvement also but we cannot know for sure how much he was involved.
Could a poorly educated man like Joseph Smith have pulled together so many written works to construct his book on his own? Think about it!
He was fairly unschooled, or uneducated....this DOES NOT mean however, that he was not INTELLIGENT. I believe that Joseph Smith was probably one of the most creative and intelligent people during his time period. How else can you craft and maintain such a huge lie, and get people to buy into it hundreds of years later.
Education and intelligence are completely different qualities. While its true that becoming very educated requires a certain amount of intelligence, the converse isn't necessarily true. Intelligence is more intrinsic. Small children for example, can demonstrate above average intelligence, while not even being able to read.
There is no denying that Junior was "intelligent" and "creative". I don't think anyone disputes that claim. However, Con-Artists/self-proclaimed prophets, such as him, tend to be highly intelligent and creative. This does not refute the deceptive practice & methods he applied on others, to lead them astray. A snake-oil salesman is what comes to mind.
As far as I understand, Joseph Smith was educated in hebrew though probably more the structure and the biblical aspects of it and not the Jewish hebrew is his day. He was quite educated in theology, but more self educated.
Cute pictures ..
But they sure get the point across
My first time watching you.. I have now made it thought the 4 minute begathon.
My least favorite part of the podcast every time... on the upside, you can pretty reliably skip past it with a few clicks lol.
Right?? God forbid they try to get paid for the work they do.
@@KidFreshie I pay for UA-cam prime, so I don't have to watch endless commercials.
So....isnt the BofM supposed to be a summary of other records? Therefore it would be understandable of one dimension characters, lacking of reptetative references of currency, etc......there instead of a colossal moving novel...it has been summarized , condensed.
Excellent video. I'm sure Joseph wrote the BOM, complete with its simple story structure and a thousand grammatical errors. He was a gifted orator and story teller with the ability to quote Bible verses. The plates are a complete fabrication but were the 'hook' he needed to start a following. I have a university education, but I am always amazed at men who have an excellent command of the Bible but otherwise have no more than a high school education and work as laborers.
Sections of the D&C show Joseph Smith had an amazing skill for dictating original scripture. The same skill could produce the book of Mormon. You can believe his talent was a gift from God or not. I do think it's impressive even if he made it up, so I get annoyed that people dismiss the book of Mormon. Just read it knowing these are Joseph Smith's ideas presented through pseudonyms like nephi, alma, Moroni, etc...
I don’t see his “ideas” as being especially moving or even inspiring. But perhaps they do inspire other readers
36 sworn affidavits link Rigdon and Spalding together in the creation of the BoM. The most compelling is that of Spalding's wife to the Boston Recorder Newspaper. Rigdon was a voracious studier and reader of History and theology from an early age. Rigdon was ten years older than J.S. He was an experienced preacher. Rigdon worked at the same printshop in Pittsburg where Spalding sent his manuscripts. The church is formed in 1830, the first place they visit 3 months later just happens to be Kirtland, OH. I wonder why. Oh, Rigdon is there and magically says that the BoM is amazing and true, and that the church is true, after years of battling debates with Alexander Campbell over the smallest minutia of theological differences. But here comes this 23 year old that everybody else laughs at and Rigdon believes him? Also, J.S. makes Rigdon his co-equal literally two months after Rigdon's baptism. Stanford's peer reviewed study in 2008 shows decisively that Rigdon and Spalding were in fact the authors of a majority of the BoM. That is science.
For anyone stumbling across this comment, I just want to point out that the 2008 study was debunked a year later by a team at BYU (Schaalje et al., 2009) that showed the methodology used in the Jockers (2008) study was deeply flawed. The Jockers study used a closed set of 7 potential authors, so the study only actually showed who of those 7 most closely matched each portion of the BOM. To demonstrate how flawed the methodology was the Schaalje team used the same methodology on the Federalist Papers and showed that the Jockers methodology showed Rigdon to be the author, when Alexander Hamilton was excluded from the set. Using an "open set" the Schaalje methodology accurately selected Hamilton as the author and "none of the above" authorship when he was excluded. This methodology indicated "none of the above" for both Joseph Smith and Rigdon/Spalding authorship when run against the BOM text.
HYRUM WAS EDUCATED??!! 🤯 Add that to the list of things that the church conveiniently never told me. Just that Joseph was uneducated. 🙄
Your finger broken?
And your knees too?
There are earthworks. Once covered by trees, they're now uncovered.
Amazing finds. Earthworks is the correct word because they are different than pyramids.
@@randyjordan5521 Many hands make work light.
I saw on a recent Facebook post that a scientist found arrowheads in a bed stream as claims they are from the BofM stories. Any podcast about that? Aloha 🌺
Yep! Aliens alright !
Who created the christian bible?
watson 67,
At least 40 different authors through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit. It’s amazing how it comes together as a beautifully colored tapestry, much of which is prophetic about, and culminates in, the fullness of the revelation of the Lord Jesus. Reading the OT gives us a glimpse of what Jesus explained to the two men on the road to Emmaus.
If you haven’t studied the Word of God, you’re missing out.
Stacy - a former Mormon, now Christian
Tom Miller,
I already saw some of all of them when they came out. Mr Bokovoy holds a minority position and one I would never agree with, nor would many other Christian Scholars of his same caliber. But everyone has their reasons and agendas.
Have you ever studied the Bible to find Jesus?? Have you studied the prophetic passages about the coming Messiah (e.g. Ps 53, etc) and found the echoes, types, anti-types, allusions, and shadows, of the revelation of the fullness of Jesus Christ in the OT? It’s a lengthy study but deep, and very rich.
One doesn’t have to be a scholar to understand the Word of God. Really, all that’s required is a humble and open heart to God, by faith. His Word’s lasted for thousands of years and led millions to Christ, which has always been the Holy Spirit’s intent. Thus, it particularly speaks to the young and old, rich and poor, learned and unlearned - and particularly to those who know they’re broken. 🕊
And what hell do the Christians believe in?
I don't believe in any gods or hells
Tom Miller, If you don’t believe in any God or any hell, how can you believe in Jesus, who was God (the Word) in human flesh? Moreover, which things would you know to toss? You haven’t studied the Bible, either.
So, here in Part 1, the gist seems to be that Joseph Smith alone composed the BOM. This is something no other author past or present has been able to do (publish a historical and spiritual record testifying of Jesus Christ). Are you conceding he was a genius? Also, I’m still waiting to hear HOW he could do that. I can’t wait to watch Part 2…
Did you watch it?
There are actually many Christian psuedopigraphical writings.
Most people have enough humility that they don't pretend to speak for God when God isn't speaking to them. Joseph Smith's narcissism allowed him to do this.
I say! Get a life people before you run out of time... of course the book of Mormon depends on the bible; the word of God is eternal and God is always the same, and if you don't believe that the Book of Mormon is ancient scripture from God, and that was translated by Joseph Smith then you don’t believe that the bible is the word of God that was translated to english as the KJV and other versions in different languages .. you are making fulls of your selves pursuing a fight agains God through your unbelief...
No, the problem is that the Book of Mormon contains page after page of KJV verses word by word copies, including translation errors. Since the Book of Mormon is a perfect translation dictated by God (tight translation), why does it contain KJV errors? Because it was not dictated by God, but Smith dictated the verses directly from the KJV. So the narration of a direct revelation from God is wrong. Instead, the BoM is composed by Smith by telling a narrative, and whenever he wants to include a Bible verse or chapter, he copies it from the KJV. An inspired translation would reveal us perfect Bible verses without proven translation errors (and without biblical anachronisms).
@@charlesmendeley9823 well you could arcue that the alleged golden plates already hadd errors on them to beging with, like how the scribes coping an older text would also copy the errors with them. also taking copies from a translation isnt someting new since the new testament taking often the verses directly from the greek old testament Septuagint.
@@micromikael4806 I am talking about KJV translation errors, I e. errors which were not in the Septuagint but which were made by the KJV translators when King James ordered the translation. There is no way these could get into the Book of Mormon unless a) Joseph copied from the KJV, or b) God intentionally dictated the verses including errors, which makes no sense when the overall goal of the endeavor is a restoration.
@@charlesmendeley9823 that doenst really cange my point about septuagint, since many at that time tought septuagint was a holy translation, and thats why some cristian brance still using that as themes official testament. and you have to also remember that the same have been said to the KJV ( and not only by some mormons but also the KJV onlyist like that of baptist church for exemple ) so just keep that in mind.
untrained translators frequently transpose phrasing and words into their own idiom and dialect. i'm not a mormon, i have no dog in this fight, but this is a poor analysis, quite dependent on Hamer's own biases and (probably purposeful) neglect of other hypotheses
The Testimony of Eight Witnesses
Be it known unto all nations, kindreds, tongues, and people, unto whom this work shall come: That Joseph Smith, Jun., the translator of this work, has shown unto us the plates of which hath been spoken, which have the appearance of gold; and as many of the leaves as the said Smith has translated we did handle with our hands; and we also saw the engravings thereon, all of which has the appearance of ancient work, and of curious workmanship. And this we bear record with words of soberness, that the said Smith has shown unto us, for we have seen and hefted, and know of a surety that the said Smith has got the plates of which we have spoken. And we give our names unto the world, to witness unto the world that which we have seen. And we lie not, God bearing witness of it.
Christian Whitmer
Jacob Whitmer
Peter Whitmer, Jun.
John Whitmer
Hiram Page
Joseph Smith, Sen.
Hyrum Smith
Samuel H. Smith
Thank you GrandPa.
@@mormonstories you're welcome.
@Jim Queen The same way the rest of the educated world knows.
All the evidence leans towards fabrication.
A golden bible, no one is allowed to see apart from those whipped up into a mystical trance, which then disappears after being translated by a self-proclaimed prophet putting his head into a hat with a seer stone.
Come on, do you want to buy a bridge I have for sale?
Amen. 8 more men who saw and lifted
Made me curious but turned out to be a waste of time. Why can't Mr. Dehlin invite someone who has actally studied the Book of Mormon?
Study how? He teaches sermons on the Book of Mormon. He studies it the same way he studies medieval religious texts. Are you looking for a repeat of Sunday school?
@@melissamybubbles6139 Repeat of Sunday school, no. I just expect him to be more familiar with the contents of the Book of Mormon. I don't think he backs up his claims very well and when he does much of it is demonstrably false. Like "when Jesus comes, he doesn't use the Nephite currency". I mean, that's exactly what he does. In 3rd Nephi 12 he is using the 'senine' introduced in Alma 11. Which is also one of very many examples to contradict the claim that JS doesn't have to remember much at a time because the BoM doesn't refer to other parts of the text some distance away
@@TheAnalyst79 I
Why does this discount the overall claim? I'm not sure why this matters. Please help
@@thesafespace1765 It's one example. Of course it doesn't discount the overall claim. The comment space on YT doesn't allow for a complete rebuttal, but maybe this will help: drive.google.com/open?id=1wO9ZcW3gbRRqYGFkd6W8yi7E6LqzT35B
You are correct that this video wasn’t intended for simpletons. This is a high level academic presentation in several hour long parts that takes active engagement to comprehend. It’s not simply a 5 minute Vice video explaining Joseph smith. Look elsewhere if that is your style.
Hmmm you realize that there are 8 witnesses to the gold plates, or what the book of Mormon, was translated from. He used gifts of God. Please consider this before you spread blasphemy
Ethan, I am currently a member of the church who is questioning some things about its history. One thing I notice is that the characters from the Gold Plates bear a slight resemblance to characters found in books on folk magic that families like the Smiths would have had in their possession. Books like the 8th and 9th books of moses have magical parchments containing characters similar to what allegedly came off the plates. This is when I began to ask questions.
@@jaquino451 No need. I renounced Mormonism almost a year ago. Got a good laugh out of the South Park thing. Getting ready to enroll in the Salvation Army.