What D&D Alignment is Bardock? (Dragon Ball)
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2022
- D&D-cember and DBZcember continues as we look at the Father of Goku and Raditz, the tragic Sayian warrior: Bardock.
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#dnd #dragonball #bardock - Фільми й анімація
Honestly, my idea of Bardok is that he's a neutral evil, leaning lawful, character in a chaotic evil society. The sayans do have a king but they're absolutely a might makes right kind of people
This is kinda like the historical Gracchi brothers of Rome.
Their father was a titan in his own right, but the 2 sons are titans even to him.
I can understand the gripes about Bardock's character shift with regards to Episode of Bardock doing massive damage to his character (among other things that special fucks up), but wholeheartedly disagree with getting that from the DBS Broly movie.
I feel like people latch onto stuff like Bardock "caring more about his kids than a normal Saiyan" and using his hunch to get his last son on Planet Vegeta off-world, extrapolating from that that he isn't a "morally gray" character anymore and they softened his edge. When really, while we don't see anything in Broly to show his ruthless side like we do in the OG Bardock special, we honestly don't see much for the opposite either - we just see him get a bad feeling Star Wars style, meet with Gine, ask where Raditz is, talks about getting Kakarot off the planet with Gine, steals a Saiyan pod, then has his last stand vs Freeza.
From what I recall, Broly was supposed to be longer, with more time spent with Bardock and Planet Vegeta, but it was cut for time. But even from what was shown, Bardock isn't shown being soft - he's being pragmatic, following his instincts, and looking out for preserving the Saiyan race on his end in case his hunch was right. He asks about Raditz because he was already planning to get both sons off-world and only sends them as a precautionary measure and one that can't be tracked by Freeza Force scouters if he and/or Gine went with them. And it's not out of a sense of fatherly love, since the stuff about him caring about his kids primarily comes from Gine showing surprise at Bardock taking an interest with them when he gets back - that doesn't even imply that he cares about them more than an average Saiyan but that him taking an interest in his kids is sudden and unusual *for him* , implying that that isn't what he is like normally.
Besides, considering the character is otherwise a vicious killer who literally enacts mass genocide of innocent races on the regular...I think if you want Bardock to *actually* be morally gray and not just a dark, pretty one-dimensional bastard who you call "gray" as a means to justify you liking a character in the same way that that "one guy" playing the Chaotic Neutral character tries to justify his actions in alignment, stuff like in DBS Broly are needed imo to actually give the character those dimensions and depth.
I completely disagree, mainly that third paragraph. DBS Bardock is absolutely doing it out of love for Kakarot. He never mentions wanting to preserve the Saiyan race and even explicitly says that he's doing it to save Kakarot. (Don't remember the exact wording but he says something along the lines of "I want to save something for once- my son.") Beyond that Gine's line is slightly different in sub vs dub, in dub Gine mentions this is out of character for Bardock, in sub she mentions this is out of character for a Saiyan male. It's subtle, but the original implies that Bardock *is* softer than average Saiyan and Gine's shock is with how far Bardock is willing to go for their son, not that Bardock cares about him.
Beyond that the main reason I dislike DBS/Broly Bardock over DBZ/Father of Goku Bardock is framing. Z Bardock is the protagonist, but not heroic. DBS Bardock is not the protagonist, but he is heroic. Yes, both commit genocides, but one is explicitly shown killing innocents, the other knows about war tactics than *can* be used to commit genocide. One is shown to have some level of camaraderie with their team of other genocidal monsters to the point he wears his best friends blood and swears revenge for them, the other is portrayed as a selfless father saving his innocent son. One tries to warn the other Saiyans about Frieza's attack once he sees visons about it, the other immediately worries about his family when he has good reason to believe Frieza will attack.
Z Bardock was morally grey because he was a stereotypical bad Saiyan that had very small good elements to him, but he was pitted against an even worse guy with *no* good in him which is why people root for him. DBS Bardock is morally grey because he's not a stereotypical Saiyan but is still part of an evil race. He's only ever implied to have done bad stuff in the film, but we consistently soften that by emphasizing that he's actually a good person and/or not like other Saiyans.
Speaking personally, the idea that Z Bardock encapsulates a Saiyan society where people are inherently battle hungry and cultivated a culture where social standing is determined by strength and taking things by force is standard, but they can still function as a social race and develop bonds among Saiyains of similar power levels is more interesting and morally grey than DBS Bardock being shown as an outlier in a Saiyan society where all other Saiyans are selfish and shown to be ready to stab each other in the back the moment it benefits them.
I don’t think Bardock being a Super Saiyan makes Goku less special at all. We see Vegeta do it, and Gohan, and Goten, and Trunks, Broly, hell even Universe Six Saiyans obtain the transformation, so it hasn’t really been anything special for a while now. Kinda like how Power Levels stopped being relevant at some point.
I agree with this take, although I can see why people feel otherwise. I think it would've been cooler if it was better written and more thought out though.
Yeah I even remember a line in DBZA where after Vegeta says he will go beyond a Super Saiyan, Piccolo remarks that the form isn't that special anymore.
Toriyama completely shat all over Bardock's character when he wrote Dragon Ball minus. I REALLY wish they would stop using Bardock but they can't seem to help themselves.
I used to think Freeza destroyed Planet Vegeta because of Bardock. The King kept sending him on suicide missions and he would always come back, stronger.
My headcanon was that Bardock was one of the only team leaders that cared about his subordinates and teamwork. He had higher survival rates, leading to them getting stronger every time. So, I thought Freeza noticed and thought the Saiyans were breeding super soldiers. Why else would Freeza send Dodoria after his team, if not under suspicion of rebellion?
This is honestly a really good point. From everything that is presented to us, we're supposed to believe that Bardock is one of the lowest ranked Saiyans, someone that nobody really gives a shit about. But yet Frieza sent one of the 2 strongest generals he had to personally take out Bardock and his team? That honestly is pretty suspicious. Why would "THE Emperor of The Universe" send one of his absolute strongest soldiers to take out a single team of low level Saiyan Warriors, if he didn't see *THEM* specifically as some of the biggest threats amongst The Saiyans?
Bardock was about 10,000 when he faced frieza putting him just under Vegeta in the saiyan saga, which when paired with Oozaru makes him strong enough to face the Ginyu force, barring Ginyu himself. This is absolutely possible and even more so considering before Kanassa he was a middle class warrior like Nappa
To Quote Abridged Bardok about Episode of...: "Of all the Stupid, asinine, Shark Jumping, Bullshit..."
My headcanon is that the episode of bardock stuff happened after a failed attempt to snatch him by Mira and Towa, with them accidentally sending him into the past. Also I would like to see an alignment video for Rimuru Tempest or Ainz Ooal Gown
That's literally an implied part of the Xenoverse games, so canon to that.
I like both versions of Bardock for different reasons. The original works as a morally gray character like you mentioned and not like the self-righteous father trying to save his son like the now cannon version from Super Broly or the Brilliant Scientist like the original dub wanted to make him out to be. But I'm not a fan of the whole psychic powers thing, it just seems too convenient. This I think the Super Broly Fixes, Bardock actually pieces together why Freeza would recall all the Saiyans to planet Vegeta, almost implying that he may have used or witnessed a similar tactic before given his line of work and doesn't even fully believe it himself until the final piece of the puzzle is in place when he learns that Freeza's men were asking about the Legendary Super Saiyan, I like how we got to see the strategist side to figure it, using his brain instead of convenient powers
Bardock is honestly my favorite DB character
3:40 You get my respect for reciting that line! lol
I agree that characters with shades of gray (DO NOT COVER FIFTY SHADES PLEASE) can be interesting but they are not inherently superior.
Sometimes a mustache twirling villain can be more fun that a relatable, turtured one and sometimes a pure good guy is better than a gritty anti hero.
I take a well written Superman over a well written Batman any time.
As for Bardock, not much to say. You covered his screen apparitions pretty well.
I would once again put forward Tanya Von Degrechauff or Rudeus Greyrat as possible future alignment videos.
Maybe wait on the Rudeus' one since he is getting a second season soon and his entire life will likely only need four seasons or so.
Yes absolutely! Rudeus is a perfect character for "Everyone's a little fucked and so should he." and watching him realize his fuck ups and both apologize and grow from them so sincerely that when he does regress it doesn't feel like the author forgetting but more you going "Rudy, you're better than this. Don't make this mistake again."
I respect the Team Four Star reference with the last Kanasian.
You should totally do a Alignment video for Rimuru Tempest from"that time I got reincarnated as a slime", a arguably diverse character that would be fun to see a video on it also has a movie coming soon as well!^-^
Would it be the web series version of Rimuru, the manga version or anime version?
@@hattoripool1533 anime as that's wha he mostly uses as reference material even thou I can agree that light novel Rimuru is more selfish and is actually more ruthless alot more
didn't he already do that?
A alignment video on Rudeus Greyrat would be fun since the original novel covers his entire (2nd) life but I guess it's not possible atm since the anime don't cover much and the novel isn't even fully available in English yet
He's a man who has no qualms with killing but has a deep love for his species making him lawful evil
We need an alignment video on the person who’s writing the intro script lmao 🤣
Bardock and Jor-El. Goku and Superman. Soon we'll have people comparing Frieza and Brainiac.
I disagree on your take that Bardock being Super Sayin makes it less impactful for Goku's transformation. They trivialized the transformation well before that point, particularly when Goten becomes SSJ is where I'd say it no longer was painted as special, and Super continues that trend. There had to be a first in the storyline and making it Bardock does just paint the picture that that family is blessed, but besides the time travel making no sense, I felt like that movie's ironic twist was a really great addition to the lore
Ignoring the fact that bardock travelled to the past, its insteresing that bardock goes from lawful evil to true neutral in the moment of his death.
Minus/super Bardock: Chaotic neutral to Lawful evil
Z bardock: Neutral evil
Great video as always. Never understood dnd allignments before watching your videos and it got me more invested into DnD as a whole.
I wonder what allignments would each of the tf2 mercs have
*_EVERYTHING!!!_*
Requesting the Kirby trio, Gunvolt, and Copen.
Like how the captions say he "sweats vengeance"--not inaccurate.
Bardock! An absolute badass who is an absolute legend! Dude is in no way a good aligned person, but he is in no way evil. My guess is Chaotic Neutral. But I will agree to True Neutral or Neutral Evil leaning True Neutral.
Edit: True Neutral leaning Neutral Good. Not what I expected but it's fair, I expected True Neutral anyway. But why did you go with the original Japanese version instead of Team Four Star's Abridged version? It honestly would have made everything better as they made it more accurate to how Bardock would truly be.
The TFS version may be the greatest version of the character of Bardock and honestly dare I say the best version of the Cell Saga.
Unfortunately, they are not an official Dub, they are a parody, which means nothing can be considered canon.
@maximo caseres Fun Fact: They modeled their Bardock after the original. The sub version. In the original he wad a cold asshole.
These are always a treat
I don't really follow why you blended Minus and the original Bardock special together as one single timeline. It's pretty clear Minus is intended as a retcon for the character into something more marketable by Toriyama and Toei. It probably would have made more sense to look at Minus as its own separate iteration from the one that's in the previous two specials.
I think it has to do with the fact that the confrontation between Bardock & Frieza is technically canon, because Frieza has a flashback of it in both the manga & anime when he meets Goku for the first time.
Something interesting about Bardock becoming a Super Saiyan, even Raditz becomes a Super Saiyan in the manga (Goku visits him in the afterlife, and basically blows his mind by showing him the other transformations, its actually somewhat funny). So the idea of 'like father like son(s)' could technically work. I do agree that Broly being the origin of the myth is better though
the only reason you'd do Goku is if you want to validate his picture in Chaotic Good. Arguably he gets in Chaotic Neutral with the actions in Super.
Z Goku is mostly chaotic good Super Goku is mostly chaotic neutral.
Fun Fact: Episode of Bardock is literally fan fiction.
Yeah the people of FP-419 really should have seen that coming
All hail the Violent Savior!
What D&D alignment is Lord Garmadon from Ninjago? This one I genuinely want someone to do
Yes Ninjago is Kinda underated
Which one. He is in two time line
@@cameronheaton9900 the show version
@@hattoripool1533 thank you
Man, that one's gonna be a rollercoaster.
Merry Christmas
Episode of Bardock also changes Goku as a character in the nature vs nurture debate. Goku is the way he is because of his experiences as an earthling. But when it turns out his dad was far more noble than originally presented, it makes Goku feel less like a product of his environment and more like a result of his father.
Honestly I’d say gine is a better example of this than bardock
@@AllMight6 I'm pretty sure they were talking about Goku's talent as a warrior & his ability to go super saiyan, not his personality. It's an established fact that if you have the potential go super saiyan, then it's easier for your children to do so (Ex: Gohan, Goten, & Trunks). Thus, Bardock being able to go super saiyan would logically make it easier for Goku to do so, which kinda sh*ts all over the narrative of Goku's powers being the product of hard work & not his bloodline. Having Bardock as the original super saiyan also sh*ts on Broly's narrative of being the super saiyan foretold by legend.
Can you do a alignment video of the characters in Murder Drones? There are only 2 episodes out on UA-cam.
My favourite DBZ character
Dude when you say Goku you me the whole series of Dragonball? I mean giving the mount of character's you can do it worth it, Heck Yamcha Alignment video would me for a fun April fools.
The Bardock special is more cannon to a Dragon Ball Game that involved demons time traveling and they wanted Bardock for some reason and that’s why he was sent back to the past. The demons messed up grabbing him.
Grammar
I mean considering who his son is maybe they kinda has the right idea with grabbing him
I think the whole point of "if Bardock is a Super Saiyan it cheapens Goku being special" is just a surface-level look at the situation honestly. On the contrary, I think in a way, Bardock being kind of a good guy at heart (at least in some ways, even if he has done some terrible things) legitimizes Goku's character. Instead of Goku only becoming a good person literally because he got dropped on his head as a child, we see that the seeds of goodness in Bardock survived a generation and flourished in Goku, against Saiyan nature. Goku was able to become a better man than his father, as all good fathers wish for their sons.
Besides, the "specialness" of Super Saiyan has already been made fairly mundane. Ironically, Vegeta - the one who takes pride in his heritage - is the one who achieved Super Saiyan despite his own father never having achieved that level.
I think it makes things less black and white, gives it more dimension.
Wait is the bardock special where he goes SS canon? I mean I thought it was just a funny cool OVA.
8:28 o.o isnt that a bootstrap paradox?
“Bardock? More like Bar-“
DBFZ: ‘Uno Reverse Card.’
“NANI?!!?”
Less interesting: I won’t deny. However, I can’t wait help but like seeing Bardock being a caring family man.
Trinston was here
7:12 that is his Japanese voice? Ha ha ha it sounds like he should be voicing Ursula from the little mermaid!
I like what happens to him more in Xenoverse 2 a little better than that weird episode of Bardok.
Just wanna throw out the phrase Comment-hameha
What alignment is Dr. Tommy Oliver? RIP JDF
Neutral Evil
I'm honestly kinda mixed on Gine. Having her be gentle is a pretty pointless character trait since Goku is only the way he is because of hitting his head. Unless Toriyama forgot that detail (not impossible) and retconned it to "Oh, Goku got it from his mom."
Yeah I don’t count the episode of bardock as cannon additionally yes do goku but start with the original dragon ball (most likely over several episodes) I would love that
He still genocides multiple species. He's in no way a redeemed character, he's just a punch-clock villain demon with a heart
And now for the obligatory post asking for an alignment video on Sasuke Uchiha, deuteragonist of the Naruto series.
i feel it is a mistake mixing the two continuities, should have covered them as 2 different takes on the concept like i recall you doing with broly
Granted, we don't actually know where the legend of the Super Saiyan started from, and given that this is on the planet that the Saiyans eventually conquered after their original homeworld was destroyed. You coould argue that the reason for why the Saiyans didn't believe in the legend had to also do with the fact that the Plantians also had a legend of the Super Saiyan and it didn't make sense to the Saiyans given how their culture works and that Saiyans don't normally act like that. Not to mention that we are aware that the Legendary Super Saiyans went up against the Super Saiyan god, which was who knows how long ago, seeing as Legendary Super Saiyans are born every one thousand years or so.
Do one with Big Boss from Metal Gear
Space Vikings :D
well, its a good thing episode of bardock isnt canon then. that was something from the Dragon Ball Heroes games.
Yamoshi is a better origin story of the Super Saiyan.
I'm gonna be honest with you here Chief, I really disagree with the opinion that making Bardock into a rebel with a cause makes him at all less compelling as a character. I personally think it makes him far more interesting for him to be an oddity amongst the Saiyans in that he actually gives a shit about his family. There being this one Saiyan who was different from the rest, I think is a really interesting story story premise.
It WOULD'VE been had it not missed the whole point of his character. His whole character is about being someone that's bad, but not evil. He kills people and enjoy it, but he wouldn't just start killing people randomly. Take a look at the special (even though it's not well written it still does great job at his character) he could've killed all these people, and they would've been unable to do anything about it and yet he still didn't do it.. that's bardock's character. being someone that's "odd" between the saiyans misses the whole point of his character (as he's depicted as the average saiyan warrior) but also isn't interesting, since that's the whole of point of Goku's character and also Gine's.
No mention about Bardock, an Average Fighter but a Brilliant Scientist?
Two different Bardocks retcon we have the cannon one and the original I like the original
But, what about the scene in the manga where Frieza meets Goku for the first time & has a flashback to his confrontation with Bardock?
@@jpfan4life812 well, that’s why I’m saying is Retcon it was something that was supposed to be canon, but now isn’t
@@jpfan4life812 the sayings are completely different from what was in the Broly movie they use guns they are an organized military rather then space Vikings and the even have a different death scene for bardock in the broly movie instead of throwing a ball of energy like in the original, he fires a beam and tries to hold back freza’s supernova
Someday we will do Shin Megami Tensei.
There was always supposed to be an ancient super Saiyan, it was always part of the legend...I dunno why people act like Goku should have been the fist one in history...
The fact of how Bardock traveled back in time makes as little sense as...much of Super writing or GT... doesn't negate the fact that it's a way to explain the legend and the Frost Demons fear of it
I'm pretty sure Goku was the super Saiyan god legend from long ago that Beerus remembers when universe 7 Saiyans still lived on planet Sedala Broly is the legendary super Saiyan the Saiyans on planet Vegeta remember
Good video. Though I am surprised you used the Japanese dub instead of the English dub for the bardock special. I guess it doesn't make much difference🤷♂️
2 genocides.
The tuffles are canon.
Didn't that happen before Bardock was born?
@@Insane234 ...yes actually. Nvm
I... don't think Gine was Bardock's teammate. You may be confusing her with Fasha (Celipa in fhe original Japanese), who is to my knowledge, the only other named female Universe 7 full-blooded Saiyan.
Also "Gine" is pronounced with a hard "G". The name comes from flipping the phonemes that make up the word "negi", the Japanese name for spring onion.
Alignment for wakfu please
I would like you to do yu yu hakusho hiei
I think he has the second most changes in the show
Speaking of Bardock, there's a new What If by @MasakoX, "What If Goku Met Bardock in HFIL?"
ua-cam.com/video/GKecvf3WE6g/v-deo.html
wait... can it be...
in the last arc of DBS (as much as I dislkike so much about it) it is known that Bardok asked for a wish for his son safety, so here is a strange taperstry of events that became preordained, not a good plot, but possible with that 1 wish
but first, something to clear up about Super Saiyans, well, its not unique, All Saiyans can archieve it, mechanically you need just be strong enough, not a huge bar in itself, but once this is obtained, a massive outburst of emotions are needed to trigger it (also, calm Saiyans can archive it more easily)
so now to the events I think that wish could have made preordained, simple, Bardock only really came to be that paranoic of Freezer cause of his inquiry of Super Saiyans, that was literally the straw that broke the camels back and have Bardock take the precautionary measure of sending him away *SAFETLY* out of the soon to be destroyed planet Vegita, but for that a legend must first be born
so, first the events that I dont think could have changed ever, these situations would allways happen, and that is because only the Super Dragon Balls can do anything to Gods, so Beerus is unchangable fact here, and thats his order to destroy planet Vegita, with this unchangable fate the Wish needed another venue, hence the earlier
thus it sended to the past the 1 Saiyan warrior most likely to become a Super Saiyan, Bardock, after almost dying to the Death Ball (point I think was when the eish transported him) after he healed back, his Senkai Boost pushed him beyond the threshold of power needed, now he needed another high busrt of emotion, which wasnt as hard, he was already in a preatty unstable point emotionally in his life, thus it also sended Bardock to a point in time near one of Freezers kin wsa to arrive, thus rekindling his hatred and archiving Super Saiyan and thus giving life to the legend of the Super Saiyan and thus, giving Freezer pause to his plan to destroy the planet to be sure no upsets would happen
Day 18: Easy a CN, the man conker planets as a profession but cares for his own party 'n family...
I am here to ask for a video on Violet Evergarden please
Day 4 of asking for ainz ooal gown
They could have easily just combined the stories (not episode of bardock)and kept his character mostly intact.
I completely disagree. The Bardock from the old tv special and the post Dragon Ball minus Bardock are waaaaay too different to be considered the same person.
@@Dante... Maybe what they need to do is rewrite Minus to better fit Bardocks character. Keep some things but try to keep him as close to the original as possible
@@sscool100 I wish they could do that but it's probably too late at this point. They already used Minus Bardock in the Broly movie and the Super manga. I just want them to stop using Bardock all together.
Too bad you couldn't add the super Manga events of what happened to bardock vs gas
The only canon things about Bardock comes from Super.
Wait, Frieza cant track power levels. How would he track them
Ben Tennyson original series
Neutral at best neutral evil at worst
Not sure why you're counting bardock: father of goku. Minus and broly kinda write it out of the timeline, so it's probably not canon. Episode of Bardock is also definitely not canon.
Hey I'm early for once.
But the movie isn’t canon
Good Bardok or the shit version from dragon ball minus and the super broly movie?
Oh and by good I mean genocidal planet looter on a quest for vengeance not actually good in the moral sense