Hi Alex. I’ve just left a club I have been a member of for 15 years. They have let 350 new members join in the last 2 years for £350 not £1250(normal fee) as they are under 35. This has resulted in comps being over subscribed and you can’t get on the sheet. It’s also caused slow play and terrible etiquette on the course. I think this is a state at many clubs and is just bad management and people like me are leaving in high numbers.
The current economic climate makes it impossible for the younger generation to afford £1250 golf memberships. Even the older generation is struggling to afford it due to pension cuts. Either the prices need to be adjusted to reflect the current situation, or the golf clubs will face extinction. To me it is absurd to think that members who have been part of the club for 15 years could be pushed out by new golfers who are simpily trying to learn the game, how bizzare? These newcomers are likely completely unaware of your existance and are simply focused on enjoying their experience.
Try joining a course in Germany, if you have not got a certificate of basic knowledge- etiquette, rules and more importantly dress code, no certificate no membership or opportunity to pay and play.
In the states, i noticed this trend for many years. Golf courses are expensive to maintain. Most new golfers dont respect or know the proper etiquette which adds to cost. Is there a solution when memberships are down and golf course expenses are high? Perhaps offering a discount to residents in a certain radius of the course may keep its locals from traveling to other towns or counties without having to offer memberships or offer discounts to golfers on date and time for tee offs. If something isnt done soon, golf will be to expensive to play for the average golfer.
green fees in my area have almost doubled. I have one in my area that went from $115.00 to $350.00 in one year. Needless to say I pass this course 2 to 3 times a week and the parking lot is empty. I have cut my rounds from once a week to once a month and have spent most of my golf budget at a driving range and I am a better golfer for it.
The 2 courses I was a member at in Sydney were public courses and had the following membership categories: #1. Full Member ( for male & female). They could play 7 days a week socially and paid no green fees. If they wished to play in the club's competions they could do so on Saturdays, Sundays, in the Mid-Week Open days (Monday & Wednesday) for a comp fee of AUD $20.00, and for the ladies an extra ladies comp was on Thursdays for the same fee. #2. Mid-week members for those that could play in the open days who couldn't afford the full membership. #3. Junior membership up to age 21. This category also included full time University students even if they were older than 21. They could play in the same competitions as a full member. #4. Senior membership for those over the age of 65, so this membership basically covered retirees. Each of these membership categories had differing membership fees, but the one thing all memberships had in common was that it enabled members to obtain an AGU (now WHS) handicap, which then allowed them to play in competitions at other courses in their open days or when invited by a member of another club, especially if that club was a private club. Booking sheets were made available of a Friday evening from 6.00 p.m. onwards, 2 weeks in advance. No telephone bookings were accepted on the Friday evening and at least 1 person ( if the same 4 members played together each week) had to be physically present at the club to book their tee time, and they could not book any more than 1 group. As both courses were public courses, tee times for member comps were limited from opening time, usually around 6.00 a.m. until 1.00 p.m. The public could either telephone and book a tee time after 1.00 p.m. or just walk in and get a game. Both clubs fielded teams in inter club pennants which was another way of introducing players from other clubs to a course and usually resulted in many of those players returning on a regular basis to play in either the mid-week comp or Sunday comp & vice versa for our members. Unfortunately the first course was purchased by a developer, and despite all his promises that the course would continue to be maintained at the level we were used to, that was never his inention and he just progressivly let the course deteriorate to the point of having 18 temporary greens, thus driving the members away so he could close the course and proceed with his original intention of turning it into a housing estate.
Fancy clubhouses that arent used as they used to be by members are a big drain on clubs resources. Golf club managers and other staff have become more the norm even at smaller clubs where before the club was run by volunteers each looking after different area are another massive drain on a clubs income. I have seen two of the clubs i was a member at both get into serious financial bother because of these two things, hence the reason for me moving elsewhere. To me golf is all about playing the game and enjoying others company and the competition. The course is the first priority and this is where the finances should go. The fancy clubhouse with its overpriced food and drink is not in most cases a revenue raiser but a drain on the clubs finances. Golf managers/ administrators to me are also an expensive drain as well.
I live 300 metres from a top 5 course in Adelaide, South Australia yet I choose to drive 20 minutes to my club due to the high cost of membership. My local costs only $550 a year compared to $2000 a year down the road.
Golf courses need to look at prices to play, courses sit empty with no one playing but still want £60 but might get money if it was £25 during off peak times, lots of clubs still think they can get golfers playing with the same numbers from 20 -30 years ago. Golf clubs that are closed months on end need to be aware paying for 12 months membership but only playing 7-8 months is not worth joining and golfers are now starting to realise its better to play when it suits them and pay and play at lots of courses with no commitments. Clubs near each other need to get together and do a 3-4 course membership and allow people to join and be able to play at any of the courses in my opinion.
I live in Nottingham and there are currently 4 crazy/mini golf courses all within the city centre with a further 3 or 4 on the outskirts and suburbs. They are incredibly popular and are always really busy. As for full courses there are again many courses all within a close proximity. There are 3 in Nottingham itself and several others in the surrounding areas (we’re talking double digits). The course I play at is called Edwalton Golf Centre. It’s very family friendly with a small driving range, a par 3 course and a 9/18 hole main course. My wife has just taken up golf and while she is learning we play the par 3 course. Go there on a Saturday morning and it’s absolutely rammed with kids and parents. I think this is where a lot of clubs miss a trick, I believe more clubs should invest in their par 3 courses. A full 18 hole golf course can sometimes put people off. My wife can’t hit it far so doesn’t like the main course, but is absolutely buzzing when she gets it on in 2 on the par 3. If we didn’t have that option I believe she would have not continued. Another thing to note is that Edwalton has a relaxed dress code.
One of the issues golf has always faced is the amount of time it takes to play. 9 holes plus a chat and drink can be close to 3 hours, plus travel time. I’m lucky courses I play typically 1:40 for 9 holes and 3:30-3:45 for 18. Many clubs in the north east of England have scales of membership from juniors through to age 25 when full subs due. 5 day memberships etc. if you are able to get out and play twice a week membership pays for itself V green fees. Local pay as okay course is £17 for 9 holes £24 for 18. 18 holes once a week is nearly £1,000 a year many local Clubs are less for membership. July onwards in 2023 was a nightmare for most courses, we had more than double the average rainfall every quarter with the courses struggling. Clay based soil not draining and the water table being high there was nothing green staff could do. At one club I play I see plenty of lady members, and comps are open to all so ladies are playing in the Sunday comps. Regarding females being low member numbers, many girls stop any sporting activity by 16, only doing sport as it’s compulsory at school so why should golf clubs be any different? I wish my wife would try it, I know how much my mum enjoyed the game and she did not start until late 50’s. I think Golf’s big problem could be the big uptake in the period post covid and thinking it is a time to cash in on members
The introduction of youngsters to the game is much needed. Like ALL sports, we need to start at grass roots level. In the UK, some of the membership fees do not reflect the course. I have played at many curses around the UK where the green fees have been reasonable and the course has been in immaculate condition. I have also played some courses that charged a fortune and the course was no better than a farmers field. Just because they were in a 'certain' location. I gave up being a member of a golf course because some of the members etiquette was appalling! Pitch marks not repaired, divots not replaced. Yet these people were paying membership fees and not respecting their own course! As well as my own pitch mark, i repair at least 3 other pitch marks on each green as i play. Being unrestrained in my choice of courses i can play, i feel better off. In Leicestershire, we have the Leicester Golf Centre. The owner Anders and his team have removed some of the antiquated traditions that some clubs enforce. Their philosophy is "Golf should be fun". No strict dress codes. Use of tee boxes to suit your ability and a friendly atmosphere.😁 In my opinion, joining fees should be abolished. I wanted to join a club near me. Joining fee would have meant a second mortgage. Plus i had to be recommended by 3 people. I had only just moved into the village, so i knew nobody! Time for clubs to 'Get Real' and realise that without the golfers, they will fold!
In the last 4 years I’ve been a member of a club, membership has increased by 25% and I wouldn’t say is better now than it was when I joined in terms of playability. The reason I maintain it is I play a lot after work as a means of exercise so I get VFM as it’s probably £10-15 a round max true cost
Too expensive, too expensive, too expensive. The amount of time to play. It’s a whole day affair if you play 18. It’s 2 1/2 hours to 4 hours for 9. Travel to and from. Prep before round. Pack up after round.
Agreed. There's a little 9 hole course near me (4 par 3s and 5 par 4s) that charges £18 a round. Not massively expensive but it mounts up if you're playing a few times a week. This is about as cheap as it gets in the Edinburgh area and money is tight so I simply can't afford to play regularly.
I am a person firmly in the lower middle class economically and the dream of becoming a member at a course is impossible. I have a played a couple rounds at clubs and most members appear to be in their 70's and 80's. The future does not look good for Private golf clubs.
One of the best courses in North Yorkshire has a simple system- total overheads divided by membership equals annual green fees, some years up, some years down, some years stable- the day fee for visitors is eye watering but it works.
I'm a central Florida resident and a retiree and a membership at any course or country club is prohibitively expensive. My weekly partner and I only play the public and semi-private courses where and when it's affordable. We play simply for recreation as we're too old for playground basketball, baseball, or softball but still like to get out and hit a ball somewhere. IMO, private clubs are relics of a bygone time where golf was the province of the well-heeled gentry who could support it. Here, local municipalities have taken over many courses from private ownership and this makes the game accessible to all, young and old, rich and poor for merely the cost of a green fee. I lived in the Chicago area many years ago and there are still numerous city owned and Cook County owned courses and many other municipalities are the same in other states. With the cost of everything increasing worldwide, I foresee the number of private membership clubs dwindling slowly away.
What we truly need is more golf courses that don't price themselves out of the market. In my area every affordable public golf course has either been bought by developers and closed or raised fees from around $40 to $60 a round to $150 to $200 a round. Some were overpriced at $60
At my local course a bucket of balls is now £9 ! They have installed computer simulators in all bays and although young kids enjoy this, the older golfers, who just want to warm up and hit some balls, find this too expensive. Then there's the price of clubs.A top of the range driver is now £500 ! Imagine if you have two teenagers, who are keen on golf, and want the best equipment to help them progress.Clothing is also very expensive, with polo shirts with a top manufacturer's emblem on averaging £50. Then we have the recent rule changes, that often mean golfers are unsure of what to do in certain situations, which causes arguments. The weather is also an important factor.This year the heavy rain has meant I have played only a few rounds,and we are half way through the year.My annual membership fee means I will switch to pay and play in future to save money.
Sounds cheap enough. At the closest range to me, 100 balls are $15 although you can get a discount by prepaying $100 or $200 at a time. I was watching another youtube video where the youtuber was paying $20 for 80 balls. TopTracer simulators cost $15/hour, although there are big discounts for multi-hour passes.
I live in Munich and golf is very expensive here. A round at any club is 100€ weekdays, memberships and other fees you're looking at 2.5K euros annually minimum. One good thing they do is that if you are a member of a club in Munich you can play at other local clubs for half price green fee or less on certain days. Edit: they have crazy rules as well. I have had friends over from the UK and depending who is at the golf reception you can end up being refused your teetime if one of the group does not have a club membership. Some clubs want a double greenfee for non golf club members on an empty course. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face. The problem is all clubs are fighting for the same greenfee players and members so if they don't make it attractive to these potential customers they will go out of business eventually.
In the states, there are a lot of private courses and memberships are very expensive. It is not worth it for me to join a club when I can only play once a week and I play with friends and we play different courses every week. The only way I would join a private club is if I were retired and can play multiple times a week but other than that, it’s just not worth it. I wish the membership cost will come down a little, but I don’t see that happening.
Happening here in Eastern Canada. You'd think everything was rosy for the clubs. Memberships are full. Prices are sky high. You'd think they're doing bank. But the most popular 9 hole course in town just shut down this year. A local family owned course just jacked up their prices to what the other best courses' prices used to be. And it's out in the country. It's difficult to for them to get customers. So what is going on? There are no more discounts to any of these courses. The late hours (4-6 hours before sunset) are almost never booked. There's a simple reason. People play WAY slower late in the day. No clue why. It used to be the opposite. But you can't finish your game before it gets dark and the marshals are terrified of upsetting anyone because there are so few people already late in the day (if there is a marshal at all which is rare). In the next town over where my brother has a membership, his club got bought out last year. He said the conditions had been deteriorating for a while and the new owners aren't doing anything. I'm hearing some clubs are likely to be sold and ALL members won't get a refund and will lose their membership. Yeah, sounds like legal issues, but that would only get resolved years down the road if they even still exist. Something very strange is going on. As a sidenote, in your last video, you talked about the Bryson and Trump video. Trump said flat out he's no longer building golf courses. He said the land was too expensive, but it's likely everything is too expensive. And also slow play is an epidemic here. People who can't hit the ball 100y and walking. The people walking are the worst. Get a cart FFS. But carts are half the price of the green fee. They're way too expensive. So you get slow play.
It’s not walking that slows the pace of play, it’s people not being ready to hit when it’s their turn, spending way too much time in the green reading putts, foursomes chatting on the tee rather than hitting. The list goes on. We play behind people that walk and they don’t hold us up any more than douche bags in a cart that don’t follow proper etiquette.
@@stevencook4002 It's also walking. The people who walk tend to be the worst players and it takes them ages to find their ball. Not to mention, they're just slow in general.
@@alienrenders I walk and carry, the others in our society are walkers with trolleys and buggy drivers. I also play as a single player with greenfee players who are almost always buggy drivers - the club makes €30 on the buggy. The buggy drivers tend to be the higher handicappers who are zooming all over the course to find their misdirected balls. I have never once held up buggy drivers - it's usually the other way around. Never once had a buggy come up behind me and have to wait. If I play alone I can finish a round in 2 1/2 hours. Stuck with a couple in a buggy makes it nearer four hours.
Course fees are cheaper now than they were in the 1990's in Michigan USA. But they courses are closing left and right. Saw my favorite course that converted from farmland to golf. Now being converted to a Trailer Park.
Im new to golf but not that young, only thing stopping me from getting a membership is I work Monday to Friday so wouldn’t really benefit. I play twice a week at a few different clubs and pay less than £50. I’m ok doing this. I’m not the most sociable person to be honest so that wouldn’t be a factor. I play mainly at Tadcaster golf club in between York and Leeds.
i never joined a golf club my entire life until I lived in Thailand and joined some golfing society's. Still a life member too even though long since returning home to NZ. The appeal was regularly playing different courses which I loved. Never got tired of it and variety is the spice of life.
The cheap days are over in Thailand. Have been playing golf around Pattaya (with golf societies) for the past 8 years and can sadly report prices have increased and service has gone downhill since Covid. Taking into account ALL costs ie. green fee, caddy fee, caddy tip, cart, on course refreshments, transport and society comp fee, a round on even the cheapest of courses will set you back at least $100AUS even in low season. I doubt many people would consider $100 cheap. And there are no guarantees the course, and especially greens will be decent. I’ve walked off many mid priced tracks feeling absolutely robbed the greens were in such bad condition. The caddies can be a lot of fun but vary widely in experience and many are farang fatigued, just wanting to rush you around the course, get the tip and out of there. As an aside, many people say slow play is ruining the game, I disagree. 4 to 4.5hrs is acceptable to me for a relaxing round, golf courses are nice places to be. Why bother playing if someone has to be elsewhere in a hurry? It’s not up to me to make way for others busy schedules (or drinking time at the bar). I’ll probably cop bile for it, but that’s my unapologetic position. Cheers
Several clubs around Los Angeles do not allow non-members to take lessons from the club's pros. Assuming that there is space available, this policy ends up excluding potential members (people who grow to love the game and who might join because they are familiar with the club and the pro). This situation is not a major part of the problem, but it is part of the problem.
I live on the Gold Coast in Australia. Theirs around 10 golf courses. The cost off golf is insane. Just to play a game it’s going to cost you average $85 to $120 per game. You just can’t play twice a week. To be a full member it cost around $3000 to $5000 a year. Then if you want to play in the weekly comp you still have to pay between $20 to $30. I will be giving the game up.
The problem with golf clubs is snobbery it always has been. That's why I never joined one. If the Committee and members would stop looking down their noses at people they'd maybe get on better.
I play at a private members club and those days if not gone, are on their way out. I play with Plumbers, Builders, Bank managers, Van drivers etc. the full spectrum and snobbery is not really tolerated. Guests are welcomed as are societies etc.
Very sad state of affairs, I only get to play once a week due to work and family commitments and usually play early or late on my own so i dont have to be gone all day Its hard in the uk as we have such wet winters now, struggle to find dry courses near me so end up not going. I find the better courses have better booking systems and sell of peak t times for better prices. Id happily pay more for green fees but no point in membership until i retire or divorce 😂
Whenever this topic comes up I tend to have two thoughts. And this is probably a UK centric view. 1. Maybe we have too many clubs for the amount sustainable memberships there are available. Maybe some clubs do need to close so those members can go to other clubs to allow them to survive. 2. I don't get this constant drive to attract younger members offering them massive discounts. Again this can't be sustainable and alienates the main demographic who plays golf and supports their clubs. There is a reason that the golf club demographic is 40-50+, it's because that demographic has the money and the time to invest in the game. Why waste time and money on trying to attract a younger demographic when in reality that supply of members doesn't really exist in great numbers. It just seems dumb to look at some basic statistics and think there is an untapped supply of new customers, when it doesn't really exist in the kind of numbers that will move the needle. Why not spend that time and money and target the 40+ demographic and at least try and maintain the current membership levels. We see this thinking far too much these days. Companies deserting their existing customer base in search of a new customer only to find out it doesn't exist and by the time they realise it their existing customers have gone elsewhere.
Golf in the U.K. and Ireland is very affordable, compared to the states, which is surprising given they have vastly more land. Do no groups of golfers get together and try to start their own clubs over there? On the other topic, golf is generally played by people 35 and up. There’s always more of them coming, and in future there’s going to be more older people than ever. Golf has been fine for 400 years it’ll be fine into the future.
North Florida has lost over a dozen courses in the last 20 years. Built 1, but that one is planning on going private when membership (home sales) gets to a certain point. North Florida has close to doubled in residency at the same time.
We need memberships to insure a grounds crew year round. The core is assisted by summer employment and part time (5AM to 9AM). If we existed on public golfers alone, either our maintenance would be considerably less or our fees raised to maintain good course conditions. You cannot have it both ways if you are a golf club that allows public playing as well. The municipal courses are maintained adequately, even good, but their crew are city employees with the benefit and perks that offers, including being able to be reassigned in the off season. That said, we have a huge women’s league, youth league and programs it is true that most of our members are 55 and older. We’re retired and have time to play golf. Many do not play on the weekends to allow those still working a chance at reasonable tee times. Now next to us is a country club. Very exclusive. Limited membership, no chance to ever play there. So what. Let then have their cake and eat it too. Our big battle internally is that with the influx, mostly from Southern California, where they belonged to exclusive clubs, many want to change our golf club into a country club. More exclusive, more expensive. It has always been the local members club while next door was the hoity-toity, don’t even bother to enter country club. We may loose this battle and in that case, much of what you are concerned about may happen. Golf itself is at a cross roads. What might help everyone is to write a 5, 10, and 20 year business plan for your club. Start looking at where we will be when the boomers start booming and move on to more sedate activities. I never played serious golf until I retired. I worked and had to be at my job, including most weekends. Family also came before golf. My only golf was vacations with my Brother in laws of which two are serious about golf and two more were looking forward to an afternoon with their BILs. Most of the working stiffs I known might play golf 2 or 3 times a year. It’s a social event. Now we all know, corporately, CEO, presidents of businesses and other higher ups including sales managers played golf to schmooze clients. When we had business sponsored golf, it was owners, and GMs who played. Most of the other courses around don’t have the time, interest or staff to handle youth programs. We do, but we would not if we did not have memberships. It is a luxury we can afford. Supporting youth and high school golf is vital, but it costs someone. We deem it important and can afford it, even though we are a very moderately priced membership club. So, our mix is closer to 60/40 men vs women. Our ages are mostly over 45 and 60-70 probably represents our largest demographic in both sexes. I would guess only about 20 % of our members are younger than 40. We have a large couples golf presence as well. Often when my wife and I book a tee time we get paired with another couple. Now, I don’t think we are typical, even for our area. But we do have 7 or more reciprocal clubs nearby that operate in a similar fashion. Density or lower density helps us as do having numerous excellent and good courses nearby. I didn’t answer any of the questions you raised, but I am working on a business plan for our course. I suggest concerned others do the same for their course or favorite course. It may surprise them. I’m not doing it for my course, they have people trying to do that, at least short term, instant gratification. For me it’s just an exercise as I used to work on business plans for my former customers. It has shown me some very important trends. In my experience, most small businesses run as usual until suddenly they realize it’s not working and they have run themselves into the ground.
Well if 1 in 6 golf clubs close down there would still be about 290 clubs and the golfers who would have played at those closed clubs will now play at the remaining 290 clubs decreasing down time and increasing club strength, thereby saving golf as a whole...so to speak.
This could lead into another video on where is the best value to play 18 holes or the best membership in each country. There will be some out there🤔🤔🇦🇺🦘🪃🇦🇺🦘🪃
Here is Canada, prices have skyrocketed. courses are charging $25 for a cart rental...not total but each rider...on top of the $70, $80, $90 round cost...it is insane.
Have young people ever been a significant percentage of a club's membership? They are going to highschool, college, starting careers, starting families, etc. As for courses going bankrupt. They typically cut back on maintenance and let the place get in horrible condition. At some point, some investor buys it and starts over. Like the course Bryan Bros bought.
Adapt or die. We've seen similar with pubs and cinemas,why would golf be any different. Some would say that golfers use up an inappropriate amount of land, it's hard to argue against that.
Golf clubs need to wake up, £1400 for my local club, yet as married bloke with kids, who at best can do 20 rounds. It’s just not worth it. I think they should consider memberships, for those with kids. Most people who play, will want their kids to play, so it will feed into it self
I am a landscape architect located in London that recently created a design document to investigate ways to future-proof golf courses. I hit all the points you mention in your video. I would love to send it to you if you are interested. Please send me a message and I’ll email you a link.
i think the lockdown didn’t help anything. my club was closed for probably 3 months towards the end of last year because of flooding. really hard to want to carry on supporting the club when it’s closed every weekend but we have done as memberships here in wales tend to be a lot cheaper than england (from what i’ve heard). if i were paying over 1K for a membership of a club that’s always closed i’d be looking to go elsewhere for sure
Membership at my golf club in the Uk increased by 75% between 2013 - 2023 and its closed alot/ unplayable in wet winters. Far too much increase in my opinion.
I quit my club because the corse condition was sub par. Mainly all the ball marks on the greens. If I can’t putt,then what’s the point. Lots of golfers do not give a damn about the corse being in nice condition at the club I belonged to.
On Long Island, i play public course could afford a 20-25 k per year membership, but dont want to play one course all the time. Plus those types of private clubs mostly went out of business due to financial ruin. Now the game is an old mans game over 50 which i am its probably 85% of the play and 99-% are men. To attract the younger players they need to reduce the price to them, plus i havent played a round this year that was under 4 hrs and 30 minutes. Why so long on the course, too many hackers play till the ball is in the hole which could be a 10 on a par 4. Too much gambling on the course which makes people stand over a 3 footer for 3 minutes. There is no good answer to this problem , maybe if golfers who are above a 20 handicap dont take it so seriously try hard but if your having a bad day take the gimme or pick up eventually. $$ wise give youth say under 30 a break in the cost
Not surprised that the demographic of members is literally dying! In the South East most decent memberships are £2000 plus. If you work full time and have a family the maths doesn’t add up. You’d need to play 50 rounds a year at £40 a round to break even. That’s why people are choosing to pay and play.
The simple answer is the market will correct itself. But some truly special places are lost forever that way. What to do? Realizing everything comes at a cost, it is still of vital importance to make the game accessible to young people long term. Imho Every golf course should have free time for kids. Even some free instruction. Who knows maybe the parents/grandparents get into it as a result. But many of those kids will keep playing. And if their pro treated them well as a kid, maybe they have a student for life. Municipal courses are vital. Imho. Governments need to remember courses are great parks that people actually pay to go to. Even if they lose some money, at least they generate some revenue while providing so much joy. So as courses close the cities should take advantage. As Alex mentioned, the pay to play format is strong. There is demand for daily fee golf. Also with golf in the Olympics now, every municipality and private and semi private club should want to support future potential. I also think golf needs rich people to help keep courses healthy and affordable. And also support talented, hard working junior golfers. Also companies could sponsor golf clubs. As for Private Clubs, they need to be creative and open to the revenue outsiders can bring. IMO. Why not sell off open tee times? I also like the idea of volunteer to play/be a member. Instead of staff being like second rate citizens why not have young people work in part for being a part of the club. Also clubs do have the stigma of old people. Private clubs need to find ways to crate clubs within the clubs: such as maybe separate common areas that may attract younger folks. Think video games instead of playing cards. Also courses need to continue finding ways to make maintenance less expensive and labor intensive while becoming more eco friendly. Technology roll backs are part of this topic. Golf needs to start shrinking plying field wise. It should have never been allowed to get so big. As for women, I see it in Hawaii we have some awesome amateur events that men keep playing for life while it is very rare to see a woman playing post college age. I don’t get that. I mean we make our wives and moms do a lot, working while still being partners and moms, but still, talented ladies need to keep playing some competition post college. Which would obviously keep them playing and paying. One sure fire way to help that is their kids are invited to play free. I could go on and on. But I’ll leave it there.
One problem of volunteer staff is the Inland Revenue. Here in Spain a course nearby had a couple of retirees (British) who were course Marshalls. Knowledgable, friendly, wishing you a nice day as they waited to repair pitch marks as you left the green. The taxman said their "free" membership was equivalent to pay and remuneration and would have to be taxed. Result? No more Marshals.
Turnberry have put its greenfees up to £1000 for a round in peak season, its ridiculous taking bucket list golf away from normal people, it discusts me
I don't think many young people can afford membership. There are so many stuck on minimum wage that they can't even afford to move out of their parents home. Cost has always been a problem for the younger generation, especially now.
Its becoming too expensive now. I like my golf although it drives me nuts, but every year subscription goes up , its getting out of hand now. Esp cos 6 months is very wet or even closed.
Here in Las Vegas, initiation fees have generally gone up over the past few years. But the demographics is getting older and still dominated by men. Young kids won't join private clubs because of the cost, time and reputation of being snobby. More kids are wanting to play at places like topgolf which is (IMO) an indication of short attention. I do believe that sport of golf is in decline but probably just 'right sizing'.
Course I play at had a 20% reduction in members from last year. We also suffer from the demographics around members. I think out of 400 members we have around 10 - 15 female members. 95 % of the golfers are 40 + years old, no future unless they address the membership problem and the English weather.
There is another element driving ranges, that offer trackman and golf games on simulators also divert players away from golf courses. In one bay you can play 4 or 5 or 6 players, you can play top courses such st andrews, pebble beach, bethpage, no walking or finding balls, no slow play, no one in front, no weather conditions, no booking, they can buy a few beers have some food and its done in a couple of hours. My local one does events longest drive, nearest the pin etc etc lowest score, you can stableford, foursomes. Let along the tech advances in the virtual reality world. I dont think golf courses are going to go out business but they do need to adapt, golf is hard at the best of times, equipment can be espensive, so doing things like rolling back the ball distance doesnt scream progress in my view.
Easy option to forget amateur golf make it cash prizes online scoring video each shot from each golfer people put prize money from entry fee outstanding shots get prizes winners get paid. Frisbee golf is growing rapidly because it has cash prizes.
the old members are a nightmare my local course has a few old gents with all the gear and no idea i was on the first tea 285 yds par 4 and im waiting for the players in front to putt out and the four old boys were huffing and puffing about me waiting one of them piped up you can go anytime we havent all day i said they are still on the green he replied ok tiger woods the other 3 laughed i then proceeded to knock the ball to within 4 ft of the hole turn my back on them and smiled all the way down the fairway i hoped they all felt foolish
I think clubs could encourage private investors to build 2/3 tire driving ranges with nighttime availability,with food and beer ect 🍺 encouraging junior golf with good senior acceptance as well as encouraging the youth to take up caddy positions with low handycapp players to gain experience during club competitions. Or move to Australia where you can play golf all year round 🥹
![Chris Langan - The Interview THEY Didn't Want You To See - CTMU [Full Version; Timestamps]](/img/n.gif)
*Fire away…what needs to be done?*
In my part of Southern California Covid helped a bit but the biggest positive to save the day is the influx of Koreans.
Hi Alex. I’ve just left a club I have been a member of for 15 years. They have let 350 new members join in the last 2 years for £350 not £1250(normal fee) as they are under 35. This has resulted in comps being over subscribed and you can’t get on the sheet. It’s also caused slow play and terrible etiquette on the course. I think this is a state at many clubs and is just bad management and people like me are leaving in high numbers.
I have done after30yrs for the same reason
The current economic climate makes it impossible for the younger generation to afford £1250 golf memberships. Even the older generation is struggling to afford it due to pension cuts. Either the prices need to be adjusted to reflect the current situation, or the golf clubs will face extinction.
To me it is absurd to think that members who have been part of the club for 15 years could be pushed out by new golfers who are simpily trying to learn the game, how bizzare? These newcomers are likely completely unaware of your existance and are simply focused on enjoying their experience.
Slow play is making me think about giving up playing golf just so frustrating standing around for four plus hours , sad 😢
Try joining a course in Germany, if you have not got a certificate of basic knowledge- etiquette, rules and more importantly dress code, no certificate no membership or opportunity to pay and play.
@@MichaelDavison-rf6su seems like a very good idea 👍
In the states, i noticed this trend for many years. Golf courses are expensive to maintain. Most new golfers dont respect or know the proper etiquette which adds to cost. Is there a solution when memberships are down and golf course expenses are high? Perhaps offering a discount to residents in a certain radius of the course may keep its locals from traveling to other towns or counties without having to offer memberships or offer discounts to golfers on date and time for tee offs. If something isnt done soon, golf will be to expensive to play for the average golfer.
green fees in my area have almost doubled. I have one in my area that went from $115.00 to $350.00 in one year. Needless to say I pass this course 2 to 3 times a week and the parking lot is empty. I have cut my rounds from once a week to once a month and have spent most of my golf budget at a driving range and I am a better golfer for it.
The 2 courses I was a member at in Sydney were public courses and had the following membership categories: #1. Full Member ( for male & female). They could play 7 days a week socially and paid no green fees. If they wished to play in the club's competions they could do so on Saturdays, Sundays, in the Mid-Week Open days (Monday & Wednesday) for a comp fee of AUD $20.00, and for the ladies an extra ladies comp was on Thursdays for the same fee. #2. Mid-week members for those that could play in the open days who couldn't afford the full membership. #3. Junior membership up to age 21. This category also included full time University students even if they were older than 21. They could play in the same competitions as a full member. #4. Senior membership for those over the age of 65, so this membership basically covered retirees. Each of these membership categories had differing membership fees, but the one thing all memberships had in common was that it enabled members to obtain an AGU (now WHS) handicap, which then allowed them to play in competitions at other courses in their open days or when invited by a member of another club, especially if that club was a private club.
Booking sheets were made available of a Friday evening from 6.00 p.m. onwards, 2 weeks in advance. No telephone bookings were accepted on the Friday evening and at least 1 person ( if the same 4 members played together each week) had to be physically present at the club to book their tee time, and they could not book any more than 1 group.
As both courses were public courses, tee times for member comps were limited from opening time, usually around 6.00 a.m. until 1.00 p.m. The public could either telephone and book a tee time after 1.00 p.m. or just walk in and get a game. Both clubs fielded teams in inter club pennants which was another way of introducing players from other clubs to a course and usually resulted in many of those players returning on a regular basis to play in either the mid-week comp or Sunday comp & vice versa for our members.
Unfortunately the first course was purchased by a developer, and despite all his promises that the course would continue to be maintained at the level we were used to, that was never his inention and he just progressivly let the course deteriorate to the point of having 18 temporary greens, thus driving the members away so he could close the course and proceed with his original intention of turning it into a housing estate.
Fancy clubhouses that arent used as they used to be by members are a big drain on clubs resources. Golf club managers and other staff have become more the norm even at smaller clubs where before the club was run by volunteers each looking after different area are another massive drain on a clubs income. I have seen two of the clubs i was a member at both get into serious financial bother because of these two things, hence the reason for me moving elsewhere. To me golf is all about playing the game and enjoying others company and the competition. The course is the first priority and this is where the finances should go. The fancy clubhouse with its overpriced food and drink is not in most cases a revenue raiser but a drain on the clubs finances. Golf managers/ administrators to me are also an expensive drain as well.
Couldn't agree more
I live 300 metres from a top 5 course in Adelaide, South Australia yet I choose to drive 20 minutes to my club due to the high cost of membership. My local costs only $550 a year compared to $2000 a year down the road.
Golf courses need to look at prices to play, courses sit empty with no one playing but still want £60 but might get money if it was £25 during off peak times, lots of clubs still think they can get golfers playing with the same numbers from 20 -30 years ago. Golf clubs that are closed months on end need to be aware paying for 12 months membership but only playing 7-8 months is not worth joining and golfers are now starting to realise its better to play when it suits them and pay and play at lots of courses with no commitments. Clubs near each other need to get together and do a 3-4 course membership and allow people to join and be able to play at any of the courses in my opinion.
I live in Nottingham and there are currently 4 crazy/mini golf courses all within the city centre with a further 3 or 4 on the outskirts and suburbs. They are incredibly popular and are always really busy. As for full courses there are again many courses all within a close proximity. There are 3 in Nottingham itself and several others in the surrounding areas (we’re talking double digits). The course I play at is called Edwalton Golf Centre. It’s very family friendly with a small driving range, a par 3 course and a 9/18 hole main course. My wife has just taken up golf and while she is learning we play the par 3 course. Go there on a Saturday morning and it’s absolutely rammed with kids and parents. I think this is where a lot of clubs miss a trick, I believe more clubs should invest in their par 3 courses. A full 18 hole golf course can sometimes put people off. My wife can’t hit it far so doesn’t like the main course, but is absolutely buzzing when she gets it on in 2 on the par 3. If we didn’t have that option I believe she would have not continued. Another thing to note is that Edwalton has a relaxed dress code.
My buddies and I like to play different courses and only play once or twice a week so a membership for us to only one course would never work.
Yea.
One of the issues golf has always faced is the amount of time it takes to play. 9 holes plus a chat and drink can be close to 3 hours, plus travel time. I’m lucky courses I play typically 1:40 for 9 holes and 3:30-3:45 for 18.
Many clubs in the north east of England have scales of membership from juniors through to age 25 when full subs due. 5 day memberships etc.
if you are able to get out and play twice a week membership pays for itself V green fees. Local pay as okay course is £17 for 9 holes £24 for 18. 18 holes once a week is nearly £1,000 a year many local Clubs are less for membership.
July onwards in 2023 was a nightmare for most courses, we had more than double the average rainfall every quarter with the courses struggling. Clay based soil not draining and the water table being high there was nothing green staff could do.
At one club I play I see plenty of lady members, and comps are open to all so ladies are playing in the Sunday comps.
Regarding females being low member numbers, many girls stop any sporting activity by 16, only doing sport as it’s compulsory at school so why should golf clubs be any different? I wish my wife would try it, I know how much my mum enjoyed the game and she did not start until late 50’s.
I think Golf’s big problem could be the big uptake in the period post covid and thinking it is a time to cash in on members
The introduction of youngsters to the game is much needed. Like ALL sports, we need to start at grass roots level.
In the UK, some of the membership fees do not reflect the course. I have played at many curses around the UK where the green fees have been reasonable and the course has been in immaculate condition. I have also played some courses that charged a fortune and the course was no better than a farmers field. Just because they were in a 'certain' location.
I gave up being a member of a golf course because some of the members etiquette was appalling!
Pitch marks not repaired, divots not replaced. Yet these people were paying membership fees and not respecting their own course!
As well as my own pitch mark, i repair at least 3 other pitch marks on each green as i play.
Being unrestrained in my choice of courses i can play, i feel better off.
In Leicestershire, we have the Leicester Golf Centre. The owner Anders and his team have removed some of the antiquated traditions that some clubs enforce. Their philosophy is "Golf should be fun". No strict dress codes. Use of tee boxes to suit your ability and a friendly atmosphere.😁
In my opinion, joining fees should be abolished. I wanted to join a club near me. Joining fee would have meant a second mortgage. Plus i had to be recommended by 3 people. I had only just moved into the village, so i knew nobody!
Time for clubs to 'Get Real' and realise that without the golfers, they will fold!
In the last 4 years I’ve been a member of a club, membership has increased by 25% and I wouldn’t say is better now than it was when I joined in terms of playability. The reason I maintain it is I play a lot after work as a means of exercise so I get VFM as it’s probably £10-15 a round max true cost
Too expensive, too expensive, too expensive. The amount of time to play.
It’s a whole day affair if you play 18. It’s 2 1/2 hours to 4 hours for 9. Travel to and from. Prep before round. Pack up after round.
Agreed. There's a little 9 hole course near me (4 par 3s and 5 par 4s) that charges £18 a round. Not massively expensive but it mounts up if you're playing a few times a week. This is about as cheap as it gets in the Edinburgh area and money is tight so I simply can't afford to play regularly.
Golf course local to me is earmarked to close to build 2500 houses .. Whether it will happen I’ve no idea . Local residents are pushing back .
I am a person firmly in the lower middle class economically and the dream of becoming a member at a course is impossible. I have a played a couple rounds at clubs and most members appear to be in their 70's and 80's. The future does not look good for Private golf clubs.
I’d love to see some stats on British golfers abroad this year.
One of the best courses in North Yorkshire has a simple system- total overheads divided by membership equals annual green fees, some years up, some years down, some years stable- the day fee for visitors is eye watering but it works.
I live in Alabama and the Robert Trent Jones golf trail is still a bargain! Great courses at a decent price. Average price is around $75 per round.
I'm a central Florida resident and a retiree and a membership at any course or country club is prohibitively expensive. My weekly partner and I only play the public and semi-private courses where and when it's affordable. We play simply for recreation as we're too old for playground basketball, baseball, or softball but still like to get out and hit a ball somewhere. IMO, private clubs are relics of a bygone time where golf was the province of the well-heeled gentry who could support it. Here, local municipalities have taken over many courses from private ownership and this makes the game accessible to all, young and old, rich and poor for merely the cost of a green fee. I lived in the Chicago area many years ago and there are still numerous city owned and Cook County owned courses and many other municipalities are the same in other states. With the cost of everything increasing worldwide, I foresee the number of private membership clubs dwindling slowly away.
What we truly need is more golf courses that don't price themselves out of the market. In my area every affordable public golf course has either been bought by developers and closed or raised fees from around $40 to $60 a round to $150 to $200 a round. Some were overpriced at $60
At my local course a bucket of balls is now £9 ! They have installed computer simulators in all bays and although young kids enjoy this, the older golfers, who just want to warm up and hit some balls, find this too expensive.
Then there's the price of clubs.A top of the range driver is now £500 ! Imagine if you have two teenagers, who are keen on golf, and want the best equipment to help them progress.Clothing is also very expensive, with polo shirts with a top manufacturer's emblem on averaging £50.
Then we have the recent rule changes, that often mean golfers are unsure of what to do in certain situations, which causes arguments.
The weather is also an important factor.This year the heavy rain has meant I have played only a few rounds,and we are half way through the year.My annual membership fee means I will switch to pay and play in future to save money.
Sounds cheap enough. At the closest range to me, 100 balls are $15 although you can get a discount by prepaying $100 or $200 at a time. I was watching another youtube video where the youtuber was paying $20 for 80 balls.
TopTracer simulators cost $15/hour, although there are big discounts for multi-hour passes.
I live in Munich and golf is very expensive here. A round at any club is 100€ weekdays, memberships and other fees you're looking at 2.5K euros annually minimum.
One good thing they do is that if you are a member of a club in Munich you can play at other local clubs for half price green fee or less on certain days.
Edit: they have crazy rules as well. I have had friends over from the UK and depending who is at the golf reception you can end up being refused your teetime if one of the group does not have a club membership. Some clubs want a double greenfee for non golf club members on an empty course. Talk about cutting off your nose to spite your face.
The problem is all clubs are fighting for the same greenfee players and members so if they don't make it attractive to these potential customers they will go out of business eventually.
I was recently at a inter golf club meeting and was told that 25 clubs in my area are on the verge of bankruptcy.
In the states, there are a lot of private courses and memberships are very expensive. It is not worth it for me to join a club when I can only play once a week and I play with friends and we play different courses every week. The only way I would join a private club is if I were retired and can play multiple times a week but other than that, it’s just not worth it. I wish the membership cost will come down a little, but I don’t see that happening.
In the Midwest of the US, many of the public courses sold to developers both commercial and residential. Those remaining are expensive (over $50/rd)
Happening here in Eastern Canada. You'd think everything was rosy for the clubs. Memberships are full. Prices are sky high. You'd think they're doing bank. But the most popular 9 hole course in town just shut down this year. A local family owned course just jacked up their prices to what the other best courses' prices used to be. And it's out in the country. It's difficult to for them to get customers. So what is going on? There are no more discounts to any of these courses. The late hours (4-6 hours before sunset) are almost never booked. There's a simple reason. People play WAY slower late in the day. No clue why. It used to be the opposite. But you can't finish your game before it gets dark and the marshals are terrified of upsetting anyone because there are so few people already late in the day (if there is a marshal at all which is rare). In the next town over where my brother has a membership, his club got bought out last year. He said the conditions had been deteriorating for a while and the new owners aren't doing anything. I'm hearing some clubs are likely to be sold and ALL members won't get a refund and will lose their membership. Yeah, sounds like legal issues, but that would only get resolved years down the road if they even still exist.
Something very strange is going on. As a sidenote, in your last video, you talked about the Bryson and Trump video. Trump said flat out he's no longer building golf courses. He said the land was too expensive, but it's likely everything is too expensive. And also slow play is an epidemic here. People who can't hit the ball 100y and walking. The people walking are the worst. Get a cart FFS. But carts are half the price of the green fee. They're way too expensive. So you get slow play.
It’s not walking that slows the pace of play, it’s people not being ready to hit when it’s their turn, spending way too much time in the green reading putts, foursomes chatting on the tee rather than hitting. The list goes on. We play behind people that walk and they don’t hold us up any more than douche bags in a cart that don’t follow proper etiquette.
@@stevencook4002 It's also walking. The people who walk tend to be the worst players and it takes them ages to find their ball. Not to mention, they're just slow in general.
@@alienrenders I walk and carry, the others in our society are walkers with trolleys and buggy drivers. I also play as a single player with greenfee players who are almost always buggy drivers - the club makes €30 on the buggy. The buggy drivers tend to be the higher handicappers who are zooming all over the course to find their misdirected balls. I have never once held up buggy drivers - it's usually the other way around. Never once had a buggy come up behind me and have to wait. If I play alone I can finish a round in 2 1/2 hours. Stuck with a couple in a buggy makes it nearer four hours.
@@amac8483 And what happens when cart prices are too high and the worst players are walking and can't find their balls? That's what's happening here.
Honestly feels like he should have way more subscribers. I get all my golf updates here. 😊
He has another channel too
Course fees are cheaper now than they were in the 1990's in Michigan USA. But they courses are closing left and right. Saw my favorite course that converted from farmland to golf. Now being converted to a Trailer Park.
Im new to golf but not that young, only thing stopping me from getting a membership is I work Monday to Friday so wouldn’t really benefit. I play twice a week at a few different clubs and pay less than £50. I’m ok doing this. I’m not the most sociable person to be honest so that wouldn’t be a factor. I play mainly at Tadcaster golf club in between York and Leeds.
i never joined a golf club my entire life until I lived in Thailand and joined some golfing society's. Still a life member too even though long since returning home to NZ. The appeal was regularly playing different courses which I loved. Never got tired of it and variety is the spice of life.
The cheap days are over in Thailand. Have been playing golf around Pattaya (with golf societies) for the past 8 years and can sadly report prices have increased and service has gone downhill since Covid. Taking into account ALL costs ie. green fee, caddy fee, caddy tip, cart, on course refreshments, transport and society comp fee, a round on even the cheapest of courses will set you back at least $100AUS even in low season. I doubt many people would consider $100 cheap. And there are no guarantees the course, and especially greens will be decent. I’ve walked off many mid priced tracks feeling absolutely robbed the greens were in such bad condition. The caddies can be a lot of fun but vary widely in experience and many are farang fatigued, just wanting to rush you around the course, get the tip and out of there.
As an aside, many people say slow play is ruining the game, I disagree. 4 to 4.5hrs is acceptable to me for a relaxing round, golf courses are nice places to be. Why bother playing if someone has to be elsewhere in a hurry? It’s not up to me to make way for others busy schedules (or drinking time at the bar). I’ll probably cop bile for it, but that’s my unapologetic position. Cheers
In Colorado, USA, It cost $65 to+$100 for 18 holes with a cart person at a public course. This is cheap, but to much for the regular guy!
I live in NW England and 4 golf clubs in my immediate area have closed down since 2018. Most of these are now housing estates!
Several clubs around Los Angeles do not allow non-members to take lessons from the club's pros. Assuming that there is space available, this policy ends up excluding potential members (people who grow to love the game and who might join because they are familiar with the club and the pro). This situation is not a major part of the problem, but it is part of the problem.
I live on the Gold Coast in Australia. Theirs around 10 golf courses. The cost off golf is insane. Just to play a game it’s going to cost you average $85 to $120 per game. You just can’t play twice a week. To be a full member it cost around $3000 to $5000 a year. Then if you want to play in the weekly comp you still have to pay between $20 to $30.
I will be giving the game up.
Damn no budget golf on the golf coast ?
@@oahujuniorgolfassociationc6656 there never has been budget golf on the gold coast
The problem with golf clubs is snobbery it always has been. That's why I never joined one. If the Committee and members would stop looking down their noses at people they'd maybe get on better.
I play at a private members club and those days if not gone, are on their way out. I play with Plumbers, Builders, Bank managers, Van drivers etc. the full spectrum and snobbery is not really tolerated. Guests are welcomed as are societies etc.
Very sad state of affairs, I only get to play once a week due to work and family commitments and usually play early or late on my own so i dont have to be gone all day
Its hard in the uk as we have such wet winters now, struggle to find dry courses near me so end up not going.
I find the better courses have better booking systems and sell of peak t times for better prices.
Id happily pay more for green fees but no point in membership until i retire or divorce 😂
Whenever this topic comes up I tend to have two thoughts. And this is probably a UK centric view.
1. Maybe we have too many clubs for the amount sustainable memberships there are available. Maybe some clubs do need to close so those members can go to other clubs to allow them to survive.
2. I don't get this constant drive to attract younger members offering them massive discounts. Again this can't be sustainable and alienates the main demographic who plays golf and supports their clubs.
There is a reason that the golf club demographic is 40-50+, it's because that demographic has the money and the time to invest in the game. Why waste time and money on trying to attract a younger demographic when in reality that supply of members doesn't really exist in great numbers.
It just seems dumb to look at some basic statistics and think there is an untapped supply of new customers, when it doesn't really exist in the kind of numbers that will move the needle.
Why not spend that time and money and target the 40+ demographic and at least try and maintain the current membership levels.
We see this thinking far too much these days. Companies deserting their existing customer base in search of a new customer only to find out it doesn't exist and by the time they realise it their existing customers have gone elsewhere.
Yea they went to heaven. If they’re lucky.
Add the fact that equipment costs a bomb. I am looking at chucking it in and divert my spend to photography.
Golf in the U.K. and Ireland is very affordable, compared to the states, which is surprising given they have vastly more land.
Do no groups of golfers get together and try to start their own clubs over there?
On the other topic, golf is generally played by people 35 and up. There’s always more of them coming, and in future there’s going to be more older people than ever.
Golf has been fine for 400 years it’ll be fine into the future.
North Florida has lost over a dozen courses in the last 20 years. Built 1, but that one is planning on going private when membership (home sales) gets to a certain point.
North Florida has close to doubled in residency at the same time.
Membership Model less of an issue in the states. Most Clubs are Public. Real Issue is lack of 9 hole rates and ability to walk.
We need memberships to insure a grounds crew year round. The core is assisted by summer employment and part time (5AM to 9AM). If we existed on public golfers alone, either our maintenance would be considerably less or our fees raised to maintain good course conditions. You cannot have it both ways if you are a golf club that allows public playing as well. The municipal courses are maintained adequately, even good, but their crew are city employees with the benefit and perks that offers, including being able to be reassigned in the off season.
That said, we have a huge women’s league, youth league and programs it is true that most of our members are 55 and older. We’re retired and have time to play golf. Many do not play on the weekends to allow those still working a chance at reasonable tee times. Now next to us is a country club. Very exclusive. Limited membership, no chance to ever play there. So what. Let then have their cake and eat it too.
Our big battle internally is that with the influx, mostly from Southern California, where they belonged to exclusive clubs, many want to change our golf club into a country club. More exclusive, more expensive. It has always been the local members club while next door was the hoity-toity, don’t even bother to enter country club. We may loose this battle and in that case, much of what you are concerned about may happen. Golf itself is at a cross roads. What might help everyone is to write a 5, 10, and 20 year business plan for your club. Start looking at where we will be when the boomers start booming and move on to more sedate activities.
I never played serious golf until I retired. I worked and had to be at my job, including most weekends. Family also came before golf. My only golf was vacations with my Brother in laws of which two are serious about golf and two more were looking forward to an afternoon with their BILs. Most of the working stiffs I known might play golf 2 or 3 times a year. It’s a social event. Now we all know, corporately, CEO, presidents of businesses and other higher ups including sales managers played golf to schmooze clients. When we had business sponsored golf, it was owners, and GMs who played.
Most of the other courses around don’t have the time, interest or staff to handle youth programs. We do, but we would not if we did not have memberships. It is a luxury we can afford. Supporting youth and high school golf is vital, but it costs someone. We deem it important and can afford it, even though we are a very moderately priced membership club.
So, our mix is closer to 60/40 men vs women. Our ages are mostly over 45 and 60-70 probably represents our largest demographic in both sexes. I would guess only about 20 % of our members are younger than 40. We have a large couples golf presence as well. Often when my wife and I book a tee time we get paired with another couple.
Now, I don’t think we are typical, even for our area. But we do have 7 or more reciprocal clubs nearby that operate in a similar fashion. Density or lower density helps us as do having numerous excellent and good courses nearby.
I didn’t answer any of the questions you raised, but I am working on a business plan for our course. I suggest concerned others do the same for their course or favorite course. It may surprise them. I’m not doing it for my course, they have people trying to do that, at least short term, instant gratification. For me it’s just an exercise as I used to work on business plans for my former customers. It has shown me some very important trends. In my experience, most small businesses run as usual until suddenly they realize it’s not working and they have run themselves into the ground.
During the pandemic, my private club in the USA increased monthly dues by 60%.
Well if 1 in 6 golf clubs close down there would still be about 290 clubs and the golfers who would have played at those closed clubs will now play at the remaining 290 clubs decreasing down time and increasing club strength, thereby saving golf as a whole...so to speak.
This could lead into another video on where is the best value to play 18 holes or the best membership in each country. There will be some out there🤔🤔🇦🇺🦘🪃🇦🇺🦘🪃
Here is Canada, prices have skyrocketed. courses are charging $25 for a cart rental...not total but each rider...on top of the $70, $80, $90 round cost...it is insane.
Royal Lytham at 0.11 seconds, awesome course👌🏻👌🏻
Have young people ever been a significant percentage of a club's membership? They are going to highschool, college, starting careers, starting families, etc. As for courses going bankrupt. They typically cut back on maintenance and let the place get in horrible condition. At some point, some investor buys it and starts over. Like the course Bryan Bros bought.
not really but the cost for young people (under 30) is extremely affordable.
Two people, one cart , 18 holes $300.00 in Surrey B.C.
Adapt or die. We've seen similar with pubs and cinemas,why would golf be any different. Some would say that golfers use up an inappropriate amount of land, it's hard to argue against that.
Golf clubs need to wake up, £1400 for my local club, yet as married bloke with kids, who at best can do 20 rounds. It’s just not worth it.
I think they should consider memberships, for those with kids. Most people who play, will want their kids to play, so it will feed into it self
I am a landscape architect located in London that recently created a design document to investigate ways to future-proof golf courses. I hit all the points you mention in your video. I would love to send it to you if you are interested. Please send me a message and I’ll email you a link.
i think the lockdown didn’t help anything.
my club was closed for probably 3 months towards the end of last year because of flooding. really hard to want to carry on supporting the club when it’s closed every weekend but we have done as memberships here in wales tend to be a lot cheaper than england (from what i’ve heard). if i were paying over 1K for a membership of a club that’s always closed i’d be looking to go elsewhere for sure
There are 2 18 hole courses near me that cost about the same I joined the one that didn’t have a joining fee 👍.
I pay £650 for a full membership at Silloth on Solway (ranked 47 GB and NI) It’s open and playable 364 days I think it’s decent value
I’m an OAP and there is no way I can pay a joining fee of £1k+
Membership at my golf club in the Uk increased by 75% between 2013 - 2023 and its closed alot/ unplayable in wet winters. Far too much increase in my opinion.
I've been at my club for 4 years the cost has risen £500 in that time this will be my last year if it rises again
I quit my club because the corse condition was sub par.
Mainly all the ball marks on the greens. If I can’t putt,then what’s the point. Lots of golfers do not give a damn about the corse being in nice condition at the club I belonged to.
On Long Island, i play public course could afford a 20-25 k per year membership, but dont want to play one course all the time. Plus those types of private clubs mostly went out of business due to financial ruin. Now the game is an old mans game over 50 which i am its probably 85% of the play and 99-% are men. To attract the younger players they need to reduce the price to them, plus i havent played a round this year that was under 4 hrs and 30 minutes. Why so long on the course, too many hackers play till the ball is in the hole which could be a 10 on a par 4. Too much gambling on the course which makes people stand over a 3 footer for 3 minutes. There is no good answer to this problem , maybe if golfers who are above a 20 handicap dont take it so seriously try hard but if your having a bad day take the gimme or pick up eventually. $$ wise give youth say under 30 a break in the cost
Not surprised that the demographic of members is literally dying! In the South East most decent memberships are £2000 plus. If you work full time and have a family the maths doesn’t add up. You’d need to play 50 rounds a year at £40 a round to break even. That’s why people are choosing to pay and play.
The simple answer is the market will correct itself. But some truly special places are lost forever that way.
What to do?
Realizing everything comes at a cost, it is still of vital importance to make the game accessible to young people long term.
Imho Every golf course should have free time for kids. Even some free instruction. Who knows maybe the parents/grandparents get into it as a result. But many of those kids will keep playing. And if their pro treated them well as a kid, maybe they have a student for life.
Municipal courses are vital. Imho. Governments need to remember courses are great parks that people actually pay to go to. Even if they lose some money, at least they generate some revenue while providing so much joy. So as courses close the cities should take advantage. As Alex mentioned, the pay to play format is strong. There is demand for daily fee golf.
Also with golf in the Olympics now, every municipality and private and semi private club should want to support future potential.
I also think golf needs rich people to help keep courses healthy and affordable. And also support talented, hard working junior golfers. Also companies could sponsor golf clubs.
As for Private Clubs, they need to be creative and open to the revenue outsiders can bring. IMO. Why not sell off open tee times?
I also like the idea of volunteer to play/be a member. Instead of staff being like second rate citizens why not have young people work in part for being a part of the club.
Also clubs do have the stigma of old people. Private clubs need to find ways to crate clubs within the clubs: such as maybe separate common areas that may attract younger folks. Think video games instead of playing cards.
Also courses need to continue finding ways to make maintenance less expensive and labor intensive while becoming more eco friendly.
Technology roll backs are part of this topic. Golf needs to start shrinking plying field wise. It should have never been allowed to get so big.
As for women, I see it in Hawaii we have some awesome amateur events that men keep playing for life while it is very rare to see a woman playing post college age. I don’t get that. I mean we make our wives and moms do a lot, working while still being partners and moms, but still, talented ladies need to keep playing some competition post college. Which would obviously keep them playing and paying. One sure fire way to help that is their kids are invited to play free.
I could go on and on.
But I’ll leave it there.
One problem of volunteer staff is the Inland Revenue. Here in Spain a course nearby had a couple of retirees (British) who were course Marshalls. Knowledgable, friendly, wishing you a nice day as they waited to repair pitch marks as you left the green. The taxman said their "free" membership was equivalent to pay and remuneration and would have to be taxed. Result? No more Marshals.
@@amac8483 that’s so lame.
If it’s that bad over there, jump the pond and come to America. Golf will never die over here!!!
Turnberry have put its greenfees up to £1000 for a round in peak season, its ridiculous taking bucket list golf away from normal people, it discusts me
I don't think many young people can afford membership. There are so many stuck on minimum wage that they can't even afford to move out of their parents home. Cost has always been a problem for the younger generation, especially now.
Its becoming too expensive now. I like my golf although it drives me nuts, but every year subscription goes up , its getting out of hand now. Esp cos 6 months is very wet or even closed.
Oh no, fewer golf clubs. If 1% of a closed course gains access for the public it will be a nett gain
Who ever thought that by getting rid of the middle class eventually it would affect the game of golf.😢
Here in Las Vegas, initiation fees have generally gone up over the past few years. But the demographics is getting older and still dominated by men. Young kids won't join private clubs because of the cost, time and reputation of being snobby. More kids are wanting to play at places like topgolf which is (IMO) an indication of short attention. I do believe that sport of golf is in decline but probably just 'right sizing'.
Course I play at had a 20% reduction in members from last year. We also suffer from the demographics around members. I think out of 400 members we have around 10 - 15 female members. 95 % of the golfers are 40 + years old, no future unless they address the membership problem and the English weather.
You get what you pay for and that applays to golf courses as well.🙁
to be a member of a club in Georgia USA you need to own a gold mine
There is another element driving ranges, that offer trackman and golf games on simulators also divert players away from golf courses. In one bay you can play 4 or 5 or 6 players, you can play top courses such st andrews, pebble beach, bethpage, no walking or finding balls, no slow play, no one in front, no weather conditions, no booking, they can buy a few beers have some food and its done in a couple of hours. My local one does events longest drive, nearest the pin etc etc lowest score, you can stableford, foursomes. Let along the tech advances in the virtual reality world. I dont think golf courses are going to go out business but they do need to adapt, golf is hard at the best of times, equipment can be espensive, so doing things like rolling back the ball distance doesnt scream progress in my view.
Better listen...orp ?? 😂
Easy option to forget amateur golf make it cash prizes online scoring video each shot from each golfer people put prize money from entry fee outstanding shots get prizes winners get paid.
Frisbee golf is growing rapidly because it has cash prizes.
the old members are a nightmare my local course has a few old gents with all the gear and no idea i was on the first tea 285 yds par 4 and im waiting for the players in front to putt out and the four old boys were huffing and puffing about me waiting one of them piped up you can go anytime we havent all day i said they are still on the green he replied ok tiger woods the other 3 laughed i then proceeded to knock the ball to within 4 ft of the hole turn my back on them and smiled all the way down the fairway i hoped they all felt foolish
Need to attract young players for long term development
One thing is that golf has an opportunity to appeal to female golfers as an untapped market.
Tv golf boring
Why does it matter that only 15% of golfers are women?
Less than 15% of women go fishing women don't do hobbies to the same extent that men do it's just a biological fact
Because when Tiger was winning everything, they couldn’t build courses fast enough. Now there is no stand out personality and courses are struggling.
I think clubs could encourage private investors to build 2/3 tire driving ranges with nighttime availability,with food and beer ect 🍺 encouraging junior golf with good senior acceptance as well as encouraging the youth to take up caddy positions with low handycapp players to gain experience during club competitions. Or move to Australia where you can play golf all year round 🥹