Ive been playin MoH since before the change. The extra charge of CBrew is worth it alone. But my favorite thing is it allows you to actually control when you release the vitality, unlike SP where flurry just procs...whenever.
I'm starting Brewmaster in order to prepare S2 of TWW and challenging myself, as starting tanking on the "worst" tank I only played MoH so far during leveling and in few normal dungeons, I know the feeling isn't as accurate as you guys but I really like how it feels to stack vitality and unleash it, it makes the spec really smooth overall I also didn't try shado pan because didn't want to "play the meta", I like the breakdown overall and all the explanations
Honestly, I think Brew is one of the best balanced specs (within itself) as there is practically no dead talent in the tier 3 of the tree. Invoke Niuzao could do with a buff for M+ but otherwise, anything down the tree is a viable option. All brew really needs it to squish the stagger scaling throughout and expac (start 70% scales up to 85%, this expac I believe it started around 60-65%?) and make Celestial Brew a beefier shield and Brew is in an absolutely fantastic spot. Personally I also much prefer MoH over SP as it feels like I have more direct control, having a 2nd Cel brew is also super nice during times of panic (10 stack Cel, Purify Red, Purify Red, 6 Stack Cel, Black Ox Brew, rest as needed) is so good for a scary spike. It also looks sick as fuck, the green cloak is drip as hell.
well i would like if they remove scaling entirely for stagger and kept it at a fixed value. Never nice for a class to feel bad at the start of the expansion then getting nerfed later due to scaling.
Ive been MoH on my MW and its actually pretty damn nice. It feels like a more frequent cd then CoC and it just sorta works so much smoother with the normal rotation. Doubt I will take it for raid but it feels really good for m+.
I just wish Black Ox Brew reset both charges of Celestial Brew with MoH's Endless Draught. Sadly it only restores one charge. Probably not intentional, just something the dev never considered.
Brewmaster is by far my favorite tank. But it just feels very squishy this season even with Sado pan... Ended up switching yo windwalker. Every single pull i feel like im surviving by a thread
Stats are extremely important for Brewmaster. You'll want high amounts of Critical Strike and Versatility followed by a bit of Haste. After that, it's making sure you are Purifying often and using Celestial Brew frequently
@@Sha_IRL He's right tho, even when played properly it's just miles behind other tanks when it comes to defense in m+. No matter the stats. The only tank that gives it a run for its money for worst m+ tank is prot pally rn, but that's getting a mini rework in like 2 weeks.
@Zer0talentWoW you'll hit crit DR pretty early. Versatility is limited eith our current ilvl, and Mastery is just subpar at the moment after the Celestial Brew nerfs during Beta. Ideally you want between 5 to 8% base Haste because Mastery is beans.
At around @5:00 you say 28% of ppl play shadowpan, that is 56% very much a difference :) You do tho have a lot of nice observations that a lot of brew player would benefit of seing.
Am I wrong in my assessment? (TLDR: Crit/mastery should be m+ stat priority) I'm not going to talk about crit. It's just so, so good. Get 40% crit lol. Mastery is critical to becoming a beefnugget in M+. With versatility prioritized, your win condition depends on your own perfect CD/pull management and an attentive healer, but if you mess up all hell breaks loose. With mastery prioritized, you will gain freedom to be creative in how you spend your CDs and more self-reliance. I recommend 20% crit, 20% mastery, and do whatever you want with the rest. Preferably crit on every piece of gear. You get reasonable amount of versatility by force because most of your tier pieces have versatility. Mastery damage reduction does have breakpoints (when it comes to auto attacks). Once you reach 10% dodge, you have guaranteed that 1/10 auto attacks will not hit you because elusive brawler will add 10% to our dodge until we have successfully dodged. *** Damage Reduction of auto attacks *** 10% dodge = 1/10 autos dodged guaranteed = 10% damage reduction 20% = 1/5 autos dodged guaranteed = 20% damage reduction 25% = 1/4 autos dodged guaranteed = 25% damage reduction 33% = 1/3 autos dodged guaranteed = 33% damage reduction 50% = 1/2 autos dodged guaranteed = 50% damage reduction 100% = immunity I think if you don't have 10% mastery you're missing out on a TON of damage reduction and at that point it's still worth a ton. It does get progressively less valuable, but if we were to chart this, the damage reduction per rating point meets up with versatility at about 20% where they're roughly equal. So, if you have less than 20% mastery and you're doing m+, mastery is far and away better than versatility. But it's still decent up to 25%. If you want to min/max you can by ensuring you sit at one of these dodge breakpoints. If you are at a breakpoint that divides evenly into 100%, you will never exceed 100% dodge while you are actively taking autos (a complaint about mastery seen on Wowhead with no additional thought, lol). There is one other VERY IMPORTANT consideration between mastery and versatility. That is how it interacts with you stagger bar. Mastery and versatility both slow down the growth of your stagger bar and devalue your purifying brew. Versatility slows your stagger bar growth down by Vers% divided by two, but when you dodge attacks, 0 damage goes into your stagger. Eventually, with mastery, attacks will go through, and you will take a chunk of stagger. These chunks should be larger than the chunks for favoring versatility. Mastery favored chunks of stagger are more efficient to stagger. If you favor versatility, you will bleed more stagger directly into your health bar before feeling like you need to purify. You may even be tempted to use it early, which would be a mistake. Thus, versatility DEVALUES purifying brew at a rate faster than mastery. Besides more mitigation, you'll also deal more damage and healing since ALL of your healing and damage scales with mastery much better than versatility (by quite a lot, verse is the slowest scaling stat). The only noteworthy exception is mad queen's mandate on use trinket. Besides mitigation, healing, and damage you also gain more fun reliably dodging certain tank busters and most of the autos in M+. That Ashvane Commander will have to get lucky, and even if he does, he probably only pimp slaps you for 5% more damage than with versatility build since you still have some versatility. For high-level play, you can sit at high stagger when you have high levels of mastery and make effective use of Training of Niuzao. The 15% increased dodge and attack power turns brewmasters into an untouchable god (pushes you to the next breakpoint). The damage you take from letting your stagger bleed becomes less than the damage you would take by resetting your stagger and downgrading to the previous breakpoint!!!!! Or, maybe you just wanted more time to get another purifying brew. Versatility will be very unforgiving in the scenario where you have no brews. You will land in this predicament in one of three ways. (1) You mindlessly used your brews (2) Your dps just aren't dpsing (3) You're pushing some high keys. In all of those scenarios you are going to thirst for more mastery. Magic damage is a non-issue if you're using blackout combo buffed celestial brews and hitting your mega vivify (bigger with mastery) on CD. Def need a weak aura to track your mega vivify. It's a short CD, but very bad if you accidentally hard cast one which drops your dodge to 0. Interrupts are still very important as a group to mitigate magic damage.
I realized how good mastery was in DF when I went all in on crit/mastery + all the dodge stuff. The result was around 80%+ effective dodge, which was kinda insane. Basically all I was left with was dealing with special attacks and magic damage. It's a bit nerfed now (dodge in general), so don't expect to reach those numbers in TWW, but it's still good. Considering most of the damage you take is from auto-attacks, it just makes more sense to me to go for mastery. Worth mentioning that the breakpoints you mention are easier to hit than it seems, especially on single target boss fights due to blackout kick and rising sun kick (with talent) applies elusive brawler as well. And there is still value between breakpoints. Only argument I could see for versatility is dealing with high damage single attacks, but with Ox stance I don't think even that is worth it.
@@petter9078 Beyond what they do for anyone, more damage and healing due to crits, you have a chance to be healed for 70% (celestial fortitude) more based on your crit. So the more crit you have, the higher your chance to be healed for that 70% extra is. So with 30% crit, there is a 30% chance to get healed for 70% more from ANY source. Absorb shields can't crit, so instead they get increased by a flat amount at all times based on your crit. As in, if you have 30% crit, it's 30% of that 70%, meaning any absorb shield you get is 21% stronger. So crit gives you more damage, more self healing, stronger shield and makes it easier to heal you. It does everything you want. This is why you want as much of it as possible, and diminishing returns does not kick in until 40% for Brew, and even then it is very good. You can't really overdo it.
Please, can u make video for beginners beginners ? Iam like 1400rio and I do tanking like what I can use i press. I struggle with pulling separate group. I dont know when to use brew.. Every time I lost agro. Thank you
I tried MoH after the changes and for some reason I feel way squishier compared to shado pan. Even did 2 dungeons(arakara) back to back on the same key level and on shado pan I just felt safer.
In the Master of Harmony Tree, the first talent choice node in the middle does literally 0 damage in my m+ runs. Is it bugged or a dead talent? I always see it in the builds, but that talent never shows up in details and when, then it does like 0,1% dmg or so.
That’s because you’re basically always using all of your vitality every time you use you’re brew, and pretty quickly too. I think people just see the word damage and pick it.
@@hrupalwens5001ive stacked vitality to max on a dummy, pressed cbrew, did 1 ability waited, zero explosion damage. this was 1 week ago, i switched to shadopan since.
@@alpakapucuf3394 I think MoH is better in terms of snap threat and maintaining aggro with the DoT though. You could always use the other node that uses vitality to heal instead.
No flame but i find it funny you replied to a comment a couple days ago saying you dont think the buffs was enough but E-girl hunter said it was better than shadopan a week ago and now this vid came out. 😂 ik you probably came to this conclusion from testing or other sources. Also not trying to argue or anything. If you explained why the change, im in a job meeting so on mute currently.
@lecommenter8528 I have no idea who you are referring to but I genuinely thought Shado-pan would always remain a step ahead simply due to Predictive Training accompanied with a tree that is more synergistic with thr current tier set. I came to the conclusion from testing and at the time was streaming, and chat told me to look into so I did. Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to social media so no idea who is saying it is strong or not.
@Sha_IRL sorry was referring to Equinox, just memeing. I remember during beta, equinox used to have a bunch of hps and brewmaster seemed op during beta. Didn't pay much attention if there were changes but if MoH gives more hps im all for it because I hate having majority of my healing taken being a healer. Why I stick to bear or pwar this season. But I do know monk benefits greatly from swarmlords, like bear, which I dont have on my monk atm.
@lecommenter8528 shit I missed the meme! Yeah MoH was strong on Beta but only because Shadopan was unplayable due to bugs. It offers more healing potential through Celestail Brew and tertiary talents in the Hero tree. Gotta wait for Shado-pan buffs next week to see what ends up being better.
Ive been playin MoH since before the change. The extra charge of CBrew is worth it alone. But my favorite thing is it allows you to actually control when you release the vitality, unlike SP where flurry just procs...whenever.
I've been using it ever since the change and it feels really really good
I'm starting Brewmaster in order to prepare S2 of TWW and challenging myself, as starting tanking on the "worst" tank
I only played MoH so far during leveling and in few normal dungeons, I know the feeling isn't as accurate as you guys but I really like how it feels to stack vitality and unleash it, it makes the spec really smooth overall
I also didn't try shado pan because didn't want to "play the meta", I like the breakdown overall and all the explanations
Honestly, I think Brew is one of the best balanced specs (within itself) as there is practically no dead talent in the tier 3 of the tree. Invoke Niuzao could do with a buff for M+ but otherwise, anything down the tree is a viable option.
All brew really needs it to squish the stagger scaling throughout and expac (start 70% scales up to 85%, this expac I believe it started around 60-65%?) and make Celestial Brew a beefier shield and Brew is in an absolutely fantastic spot.
Personally I also much prefer MoH over SP as it feels like I have more direct control, having a 2nd Cel brew is also super nice during times of panic (10 stack Cel, Purify Red, Purify Red, 6 Stack Cel, Black Ox Brew, rest as needed) is so good for a scary spike.
It also looks sick as fuck, the green cloak is drip as hell.
Yes, totally agree, MoH over SP, but what do you mean cloak??
@mrghostpers0n I think he means the green aura/effect around your character when your character has stored vitality.
well i would like if they remove scaling entirely for stagger and kept it at a fixed value. Never nice for a class to feel bad at the start of the expansion then getting nerfed later due to scaling.
Ive been MoH on my MW and its actually pretty damn nice. It feels like a more frequent cd then CoC and it just sorta works so much smoother with the normal rotation. Doubt I will take it for raid but it feels really good for m+.
Tried some rounds yesterday too , GOOD Prio DMG !
I just wish Black Ox Brew reset both charges of Celestial Brew with MoH's Endless Draught. Sadly it only restores one charge. Probably not intentional, just something the dev never considered.
I want to switch over. It is just so hard to give up the 10% flat DR from SP.
I've been running a lot of MoH since the buffs and I love it. It feels a lot better than Shado Pan.
Brewmaster is by far my favorite tank. But it just feels very squishy this season even with Sado pan... Ended up switching yo windwalker. Every single pull i feel like im surviving by a thread
More mastery.
Stats are extremely important for Brewmaster. You'll want high amounts of Critical Strike and Versatility followed by a bit of Haste.
After that, it's making sure you are Purifying often and using Celestial Brew frequently
@@Sha_IRL He's right tho, even when played properly it's just miles behind other tanks when it comes to defense in m+. No matter the stats. The only tank that gives it a run for its money for worst m+ tank is prot pally rn, but that's getting a mini rework in like 2 weeks.
@@Sha_IRLis there a % to aim for haste? Like 5%
@Zer0talentWoW you'll hit crit DR pretty early. Versatility is limited eith our current ilvl, and Mastery is just subpar at the moment after the Celestial Brew nerfs during Beta. Ideally you want between 5 to 8% base Haste because Mastery is beans.
At around @5:00 you say 28% of ppl play shadowpan, that is 56% very much a difference :)
You do tho have a lot of nice observations that a lot of brew player would benefit of seing.
28 out of 50, not 28%
My apologies
Am I wrong in my assessment? (TLDR: Crit/mastery should be m+ stat priority)
I'm not going to talk about crit. It's just so, so good. Get 40% crit lol.
Mastery is critical to becoming a beefnugget in M+. With versatility prioritized, your win condition depends on your own perfect CD/pull management and an attentive healer, but if you mess up all hell breaks loose. With mastery prioritized, you will gain freedom to be creative in how you spend your CDs and more self-reliance.
I recommend 20% crit, 20% mastery, and do whatever you want with the rest. Preferably crit on every piece of gear. You get reasonable amount of versatility by force because most of your tier pieces have versatility.
Mastery damage reduction does have breakpoints (when it comes to auto attacks). Once you reach 10% dodge, you have guaranteed that 1/10 auto attacks will not hit you because elusive brawler will add 10% to our dodge until we have successfully dodged.
*** Damage Reduction of auto attacks ***
10% dodge = 1/10 autos dodged guaranteed = 10% damage reduction
20% = 1/5 autos dodged guaranteed = 20% damage reduction
25% = 1/4 autos dodged guaranteed = 25% damage reduction
33% = 1/3 autos dodged guaranteed = 33% damage reduction
50% = 1/2 autos dodged guaranteed = 50% damage reduction
100% = immunity
I think if you don't have 10% mastery you're missing out on a TON of damage reduction and at that point it's still worth a ton. It does get progressively less valuable, but if we were to chart this, the damage reduction per rating point meets up with versatility at about 20% where they're roughly equal. So, if you have less than 20% mastery and you're doing m+, mastery is far and away better than versatility. But it's still decent up to 25%.
If you want to min/max you can by ensuring you sit at one of these dodge breakpoints. If you are at a breakpoint that divides evenly into 100%, you will never exceed 100% dodge while you are actively taking autos (a complaint about mastery seen on Wowhead with no additional thought, lol).
There is one other VERY IMPORTANT consideration between mastery and versatility. That is how it interacts with you stagger bar. Mastery and versatility both slow down the growth of your stagger bar and devalue your purifying brew. Versatility slows your stagger bar growth down by Vers% divided by two, but when you dodge attacks, 0 damage goes into your stagger. Eventually, with mastery, attacks will go through, and you will take a chunk of stagger. These chunks should be larger than the chunks for favoring versatility. Mastery favored chunks of stagger are more efficient to stagger. If you favor versatility, you will bleed more stagger directly into your health bar before feeling like you need to purify. You may even be tempted to use it early, which would be a mistake. Thus, versatility DEVALUES purifying brew at a rate faster than mastery.
Besides more mitigation, you'll also deal more damage and healing since ALL of your healing and damage scales with mastery much better than versatility (by quite a lot, verse is the slowest scaling stat). The only noteworthy exception is mad queen's mandate on use trinket.
Besides mitigation, healing, and damage you also gain more fun reliably dodging certain tank busters and most of the autos in M+. That Ashvane Commander will have to get lucky, and even if he does, he probably only pimp slaps you for 5% more damage than with versatility build since you still have some versatility.
For high-level play, you can sit at high stagger when you have high levels of mastery and make effective use of Training of Niuzao. The 15% increased dodge and attack power turns brewmasters into an untouchable god (pushes you to the next breakpoint). The damage you take from letting your stagger bleed becomes less than the damage you would take by resetting your stagger and downgrading to the previous breakpoint!!!!! Or, maybe you just wanted more time to get another purifying brew.
Versatility will be very unforgiving in the scenario where you have no brews. You will land in this predicament in one of three ways. (1) You mindlessly used your brews (2) Your dps just aren't dpsing (3) You're pushing some high keys. In all of those scenarios you are going to thirst for more mastery.
Magic damage is a non-issue if you're using blackout combo buffed celestial brews and hitting your mega vivify (bigger with mastery) on CD. Def need a weak aura to track your mega vivify. It's a short CD, but very bad if you accidentally hard cast one which drops your dodge to 0. Interrupts are still very important as a group to mitigate magic damage.
I realized how good mastery was in DF when I went all in on crit/mastery + all the dodge stuff. The result was around 80%+ effective dodge, which was kinda insane. Basically all I was left with was dealing with special attacks and magic damage.
It's a bit nerfed now (dodge in general), so don't expect to reach those numbers in TWW, but it's still good.
Considering most of the damage you take is from auto-attacks, it just makes more sense to me to go for mastery.
Worth mentioning that the breakpoints you mention are easier to hit than it seems, especially on single target boss fights due to blackout kick and rising sun kick (with talent) applies elusive brawler as well. And there is still value between breakpoints.
Only argument I could see for versatility is dealing with high damage single attacks, but with Ox stance I don't think even that is worth it.
Can you explain real quick why crit is so good?
@@petter9078 Beyond what they do for anyone, more damage and healing due to crits, you have a chance to be healed for 70% (celestial fortitude) more based on your crit. So the more crit you have, the higher your chance to be healed for that 70% extra is. So with 30% crit, there is a 30% chance to get healed for 70% more from ANY source.
Absorb shields can't crit, so instead they get increased by a flat amount at all times based on your crit. As in, if you have 30% crit, it's 30% of that 70%, meaning any absorb shield you get is 21% stronger.
So crit gives you more damage, more self healing, stronger shield and makes it easier to heal you. It does everything you want.
This is why you want as much of it as possible, and diminishing returns does not kick in until 40% for Brew, and even then it is very good. You can't really overdo it.
Please, can u make video for beginners beginners ? Iam like 1400rio and I do tanking like what I can use i press. I struggle with pulling separate group. I dont know when to use brew.. Every time I lost agro. Thank you
I tried MoH after the changes and for some reason I feel way squishier compared to shado pan. Even did 2 dungeons(arakara) back to back on the same key level and on shado pan I just felt safer.
It's probably because it lacks the flat 10% DR SP gives.
In the Master of Harmony Tree, the first talent choice node in the middle does literally 0 damage in my m+ runs. Is it bugged or a dead talent? I always see it in the builds, but that talent never shows up in details and when, then it does like 0,1% dmg or so.
That’s because you’re basically always using all of your vitality every time you use you’re brew, and pretty quickly too. I think people just see the word damage and pick it.
Yeah excess vitality gets split into aoe after the end of its duration. so if it never triggers that means vitality is always spent fully?
@@purgatory3165Yes
@@hrupalwens5001ive stacked vitality to max on a dummy, pressed cbrew, did 1 ability waited, zero explosion damage. this was 1 week ago, i switched to shadopan since.
@@alpakapucuf3394 I think MoH is better in terms of snap threat and maintaining aggro with the DoT though. You could always use the other node that uses vitality to heal instead.
If I care about survivability, is SP still the play?
Both are great for both damage and survivability. Play whichever you prefer!
the dps is just to low
No flame but i find it funny you replied to a comment a couple days ago saying you dont think the buffs was enough but E-girl hunter said it was better than shadopan a week ago and now this vid came out. 😂 ik you probably came to this conclusion from testing or other sources. Also not trying to argue or anything. If you explained why the change, im in a job meeting so on mute currently.
@lecommenter8528 I have no idea who you are referring to but I genuinely thought Shado-pan would always remain a step ahead simply due to Predictive Training accompanied with a tree that is more synergistic with thr current tier set. I came to the conclusion from testing and at the time was streaming, and chat told me to look into so I did.
Honestly, I don't pay too much attention to social media so no idea who is saying it is strong or not.
@Sha_IRL sorry was referring to Equinox, just memeing. I remember during beta, equinox used to have a bunch of hps and brewmaster seemed op during beta. Didn't pay much attention if there were changes but if MoH gives more hps im all for it because I hate having majority of my healing taken being a healer. Why I stick to bear or pwar this season. But I do know monk benefits greatly from swarmlords, like bear, which I dont have on my monk atm.
@lecommenter8528 shit I missed the meme! Yeah MoH was strong on Beta but only because Shadopan was unplayable due to bugs. It offers more healing potential through Celestail Brew and tertiary talents in the Hero tree. Gotta wait for Shado-pan buffs next week to see what ends up being better.