Is originality in storytelling dead? Have all stories really been told?

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  • Опубліковано 2 гру 2024

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  • @jamesturner6979
    @jamesturner6979 5 днів тому +32

    Arch said it best in his video this morning. When people say they like things to be morally gray, they don't mean the absence of morality that a lot of modern writers think the term means, but rather competing moralities - where people have logical and sympathetic reasons for coming into conflict and how they often have to compromise with their values in order to achieve the most positive outcomes, often at the expense of other people's happiness.

    • @Hello-bi1pm
      @Hello-bi1pm 5 днів тому

      That sounds like a long-winded way to end up at good vs evil or Jedi vs Sith. Sounds like competing moralities

    • @cipher48
      @cipher48 5 днів тому +3

      ​@@Hello-bi1pm it's more of how people can go either way for completely logical reasons. The hero of the story can make a amoral decision for a perceived good, the vilains can do good actions for their vilainous reasons. These are basically what Jon Snow, Daenerys, Tyrion, Jaime, Brienne and Catelyn all are. At least in the books, as the show didn't understand this and just ran with basic forms of hero/villain like how they turned Tyrion into a good little moody boy.

  • @vetarlittorf1807
    @vetarlittorf1807 5 днів тому +64

    Originality is not dead. It's just that studios don't want originality anymore. They want something that's guaranteed to draw in viewers.
    That's the whole reason why for the past 15 years we've barely had anything that's not based on a pre-existing IP or historical events.
    It's Hollywood that's stifling creativity.

    • @Dani-kq6qq
      @Dani-kq6qq 5 днів тому +1

      Audiences dont watch the original movies, very few original movies make money even when they are very good.

  • @superduper1262
    @superduper1262 5 днів тому +23

    even if there are no more kinds of stories to tell, I think we can all agree on the fact that there will forever be new ways to tell them

  • @kingofthesharks
    @kingofthesharks 5 днів тому +8

    Can't forget that it's not always about the predictability of the endpoint/ending of the story either. People enjoy seeing the process and all the complications the characters endure to get to that redemption/tragedy/romance/victory/etc. Otherwise nobody would've bought a ticket to any kind of prequel or historical biopic.

  • @miragewizard
    @miragewizard 5 днів тому +12

    Stories are a retelling of life. The best story is the story of your life, which IS a unique story for every single one of us. A story is a short video about experiencing life. Have you ever heard someone say, "You couldn't write this stuff?" Stories are an imitation of life. Whether or not it has been told before is secondary to just how it is being told, much like the lives that we lead.

  • @kingbooomer9231
    @kingbooomer9231 5 днів тому +10

    Originality isn't the reason why people go to theaters, well written and compelling conflict is. That's why people show up in droves to watch Oppenheimer but throw tomatoes at Napoleon, that's why people get excited about Into the Spiderverse but groan at Madame Web, that's why people glaze Andor but scoff at Acolyte. You don't NEED originality, you NEED good conflict that is compelling and well written. Originality is never bad, but the quality of writing and the emotional investment of the audience is what makes money

  • @hawkingjim
    @hawkingjim 5 днів тому +12

    1:05 Because many of those storytelling methods are so tried and true, doing something unique can be difficult.
    This reminds me of why the Punisher is so loved. Even as Marvel would love to pivot away from him. The Punisher is still VERY popular.

  • @rynnthetired
    @rynnthetired 5 днів тому +4

    Storytelling is like playing with LEGOs-there are only so many pieces, but you can always come up with new ways to put them together.
    Music is another good analogy. The western musical scale only has twelve notes in it. But how many thousands of unique melodies have been created from those twelve notes? And even identical melodies can sound completely different if you change up the harmony and rhythm.
    Originality isn't so much about coming up with new things as it is about presenting old things in a new way.

  • @maxis2k
    @maxis2k 5 днів тому +11

    There are around 12 arching themes for stories. But the detail of the story is what makes them different (and interesting). If all stories were the same, then all stories would be good. And clearly they're not. Both A New Hope and Force Awakens are the same template. But one is way better than the other because of all those little details; tone, pacing, characters, etc.

  • @Sam-VhosKheella-cj3yu
    @Sam-VhosKheella-cj3yu 5 днів тому +16

    I wouldn't be surprised if in a near future they decide to remake the original trilogy of Star Wars, or The Lord of the Rings trilogy.

  • @darthrage8673
    @darthrage8673 5 днів тому +13

    I believe originality isn't dead, it's taking risks that are slowly dying. Too many studios are too scared to take a chance and will invest in something safe and will guarantee they will get their money. We see this in almost everything: movies, shows, music, video games, etc. Things started to become less orginal around 2010, because I remember 2000s really standing out.
    I think in 100 years, if someone was asked if they could differentiate the 2000s 2010s and 2020s, they would be stumped. Like the 90s was the last stand-out generation.

  • @dereklopez9060
    @dereklopez9060 5 днів тому +41

    Let's be honest, originality is very much dead unfortunately. Otherwise, we wouldn't be having all this needless remakes, reboots, and rip-offs nowadays.

    • @vetarlittorf1807
      @vetarlittorf1807 5 днів тому +15

      Originality is not dead. You can see plenty of originality in art house and indie movies. It's just that Hollywood doesn't like originality anymore because streaming has killed the DVD and BluRay. As a result, if a movie flops or underperforms, it's a bigger loss than ever.

  • @Buckeyesteve10
    @Buckeyesteve10 5 днів тому +4

    What’s honestly disappointed me most about Disney Star Wars, particularly the shows, is just how many excellently written shows have come out over the last decade elsewhere. Take The Bear; I couldn’t give two shits about the restaurant industry or fine dining. However I love that show because it’s got really compelling characters and is expertly written. At Lucasfilms they’ve got all the money in the world to throw at the best writers if they so chose, but consistently put out crap like Book of Boba Fett and The Acolyte.

  • @Sjaddix
    @Sjaddix 5 днів тому +4

    Nah Oswald ain’t grey at all. Total monster in the Penguin show.

  • @kylesmith8061
    @kylesmith8061 5 днів тому +3

    There is absolutely nothing morally grey about the Penguin LMAO

    • @chrisdraper845
      @chrisdraper845 5 днів тому

      True, but the series does a good job of making you root for Oz. Before the last few episodes where you’re reminded, oh yeah, this is the Penguin after all and of course he is a villainous piece of crap.

  • @Master_Ordol
    @Master_Ordol 5 днів тому +4

    Originality is never dead. If studios or writers would just stop playing it safe, stop involving politics and just focus on making a great story. The day they stop focusing on profiting and just focus on story. Plain and simple

  • @callmeej8399
    @callmeej8399 4 дні тому +1

    Here’s the difficulty with modern entertainment. It’s extremely hard to not say “this reminds me of this”. While things can still be original it’s much harder to carve something without being compared to something. I think we’ve also over criticized things to the point it’s hard to avoid irony.

  • @joshbourne9679
    @joshbourne9679 5 днів тому +3

    It also doesn’t help that sequels and remakes make so much money this year the top ten highest grossing films at the moment are sequels. I could be wrong or their franchise films which is kinda crazy

  • @50043211
    @50043211 5 днів тому +11

    Its not the story, its the characters! The listener/watcher/reader connects with the characters, not the story! The story is just a frame work to put the events into perspective.

  • @sornreed
    @sornreed 5 днів тому +2

    Hey Thor... this probably covers two different topics of conversation, but regarding consistency in SW storytelling, do you think it's a good idea to have an array of directors for a TV series or movie trilogy? Do you think this is a potential move by Disney for damage control, i.e., they can simply put fault or praise on that particular director to explain rating correlations..?
    Or maybe Dave is looking for an apprentice..!

  • @GGBlaster
    @GGBlaster 5 днів тому +3

    Originality isn’t having something that is 100% not based on anything else. If that were the definition, then there’d be no original ideas in the history of mankind. It’s how you mix, match, combine and add flair to existing ideas. At a restaurant, the difference between an original and unoriginal dish could be as little as a pinch of salt.

  • @DisFantasy
    @DisFantasy 5 днів тому +1

    Moral certitude frightens people. They'd rather hide than risk being found wanting, even by a fictional character.

  • @kaleiohulee6693
    @kaleiohulee6693 5 днів тому +9

    Originality is an over-rated value in media. You can make something completely original but that doesn't make it good. Leaning on stories that came before is how an audience is able to conceptualize what they see. Where it deviates from expectation is what creates interest. Too familiar and there's nothing of value added, too original and the audience can't relate to it. There is a balance required for good storytelling.

  • @nichlaschristensson1055
    @nichlaschristensson1055 5 днів тому +2

    Well you can usually go by those categories, but they still are different. Even if you know that the hero will win in the end, it's the story that gets the hero to that victory that is important. Something that creators doesn't get today, even if there still are a few that can write good stories and give characters a personality and Something that get you to root for them

  • @kimberlyhartman4865
    @kimberlyhartman4865 5 днів тому +4

    “Who are you?” is pretty much the ultimate basic plot.

  • @the-point-bearer6689
    @the-point-bearer6689 5 днів тому +2

    Originality isn’t dead, but the creativity is diluting bit by bit.

  • @istari0
    @istari0 5 днів тому +2

    How does one determine that originality is dead? It's one thing to say that currently there's nothing original being made but that doesn't mean that something original won't show up later. For all we know, it could be under development or being written as we speak.

  • @corbijn1980
    @corbijn1980 5 днів тому +1

    @thorskywalker what microphone do you use? Your voice is always clear.

  • @justthinkingoutloud2538
    @justthinkingoutloud2538 5 днів тому +2

    I think the idea of stories being entirely original or fitting neatly into narrow categories drastically oversimplifies the nature of art and storytelling. I think you could argue there has never been an entirely original work of art or fiction, as everything we create takes concepts, images, ideas, and stories we internalized from elsewhere and expresses them in new ways. Even the original Star Wars was a mash-up of things that already existed. What we need nowadays is not stories that have never been told before, but people who can tell stories through the lens of their own experience and present things in fresh ways.

  • @MCsCreations
    @MCsCreations 5 днів тому +1

    Well, I used to like to watch American Chopper... But I've always rooted for the bikes they used to build. 😬

  • @silverbullet1620
    @silverbullet1620 5 днів тому +2

    Hey Thor, I'm a writer. I don't care about uncertainty. It is difficult for an autistic person like myself. I always try and look at the characters and ask what happened to them? Who are they? I read a story about two background characters from a video game and someone made me fall in love with them. Sometimes that is the story a fan fiction writer like myself likes to go for. Also taking the story already written and ask What If? I am writing a story about Anakin fighting his clone Darth Vader. Anakin didn't fall to the Dark Side and Order 66 never happened but Episodes IV, V and VI still do. I, as a writer, have to look at characters and character motivation. That is the stories I like. And yes the good guys still win all the time. Because I have seen in the past 4 years what it's like when the bad guy wins.

  • @jeremiahstanson8484
    @jeremiahstanson8484 4 години тому

    You know, this would be like saying to sportsball fans, "If you've seen one football game, you've seen them all."

  • @jukuloma
    @jukuloma 5 днів тому

    Hey Thor - More of a comment, but back in the day, we were taking band photos at a location that looks cool, but for sure had been used by many (becaus it looks cool). There were people passing by looking at us, and one guy commented snidely "hasn't this been done already?" and I thought "Well, yeah, but not by *us* ...". If people were copying each other exactly, then I would agree that is has been done a million times. But just by bringing *yourself* to whatever you are doing, is already changing it. Is it good or bad is then another question, as well as does it resonate or not with other people.
    And what's the goal? Are you doing it because you love what you're doing and you *want* to do it, or are you trying to make a buck? It wasn't the other bands' members in our photo, it was *us*. What if we were making a conscious tip-of-the-hat to those previous photos?

  • @jetblast190
    @jetblast190 5 днів тому +1

    I don’t think originality is dead, I think messaging to push an agenda has taken over as primary driver for creative output from movie/animation/game studios.

  • @Pomoscorzo
    @Pomoscorzo 5 днів тому +1

    Morally grey is another word for "human".

  • @jarmoliebrand2005
    @jarmoliebrand2005 4 дні тому

    I think all stories have snippets of other stories ingrained into their DNA. Heck, even snippets of things that aren’t stories. At least in my case, as a novice storytelling. I draw my inspiration from a whole lot of different things. Plot beats, character types, symbolisms, genres, themes… It’s very, very likely that there’s are stories out there with a lot of similar DNA to my stories. But everyone presents a little differently. And if you love your stories, you will make them your way, with passion and care (I don’t see a whole lot of that in big studios). And your (world)view will always make for a different story, simple because only you have your specific worldview. You could give the whole world one basic premise and I’m pretty sure everyone would conjure up something different. Most people may see similar things, but most people will look at said things differently. I know that I love making my stories layered. I love using symbolisms as representations for the themes. I often use ambiguous language that could bear more than one meaning. I connect a physical feature or a quirk of my characters to match the overall theme, or offer one of those symbolisms. And there’s no one who would quite do that the way I do. Same for those who are reading this. I think everyone the a similar set of building blocks to create very different things. And I think it’s when creativity isn’t being out front and centre, you will start to notice a story lacks any sort of personality or soul. The worldview it draws upon seems standardised.

  • @Z45HR4
    @Z45HR4 5 днів тому +1

    I mean, if you simplify things down to their elemental parts then, yeah, pretty much every story has been told.
    Because there's only so many ways you can construct a series of events that is compelling and makes sense.
    But if you look at the nuance of story telling, then there are plenty of unique stories that can be told.

  • @josephhutton7574
    @josephhutton7574 День тому

    Love these comments. Gives me hope for humanity.

  • @diegooland1261
    @diegooland1261 5 днів тому +1

    I watched all ten Fast and Furious movies and it's the same story told ten times. And they made money so people will watch the same thing over and over and over.

  • @DavidWalker1987
    @DavidWalker1987 5 днів тому +11

    Have all stories been told? No. Have all themes been covered? Yes... but themes are eternal.
    As for "why people love morally grey". They dont. Its simply modernity being subversive, resulting in there being no hero's and no villains. Every villain is misunderstood and no hero ever completes the heros journey (looking at you Jake Skywalker).

  • @joemahoney2630
    @joemahoney2630 5 днів тому

    Hey Thor,
    Ever since your mace windu video I’ve been really looking forward to your alternate version of the sequels. I know that your original plan was too ambitious and you were planning to release it in a different medium. Is that still the plan?

  • @eds1942
    @eds1942 5 днів тому +1

    Not sure what the commenter is talking about. Even modern tv has plenty of originality. Where they take the old formula and character types and mix it up. The problem is with creativity in certain franchises is nearing stagnation for a variety of reasons. I think mainly due to how they’ve been bought up by corporations where the boardroom execs interfere with the creativity process with their own fanfic or because they want to reach a broader audience for the point of profit, while at the same time undercut the writing teams by pushing for,.. well,.. smaller writer teams, and pay cuts, more time constraints and less room and screen time to tell a story.
    With Star Wars, for instance, is even more tied down than even Marvel or DC;
    1 - The one running everything is a corporate type and friends with the execs at Disney, and their motto seems to be just mass produce shows and figure out how to market movies, but the fans are mindless, so dumb things down. Our shareholders want to see increasing profit to make up for the billions that they gave to Lucas, so cut where you can.
    2 - While they have a ton of lore. They refuse to use it in almost its entirety, except for how Pablo Hidalgo says it can be cannibalized to cheaply makeup for the creativity vacuum because they are too afraid of messing things up or undercutting the sequels at LucasFilm.
    I mean, we even see attempts at originality where they at least made some creative effort to be different with the Rings of Power, which if you just ignore the issues with the lore and some things here and there, isn’t that bad (it’s almost too much to take at times if you know anything about the lore).

  • @paulemge9156
    @paulemge9156 5 днів тому

    The uniqueness comes in the details

  • @derekthedullard
    @derekthedullard 5 днів тому

    I'd say Severance is one of the most original stories I've seen in a long time. Granted we're only on s1 so far, but it is a very original show.

  • @omniviewer2115
    @omniviewer2115 5 днів тому

    As the good book says, there is nothing new under the sun.

  • @LucLightWolf121
    @LucLightWolf121 5 днів тому

    It died about 30 years ago.
    We haven't had genuine originality and authenticity for a long time.
    Only reboots, rehashings, and homages.

  • @LumVaughan
    @LumVaughan 4 дні тому

    It's not whether you use one of the 'formulas' to write and produce a story, it's not even necessary to have morally gray characters, though I believe that everyone has a bit of 'grayness' in them and a good writer/director/producer will bring this out in a realistic way. It's mainly the stories themselves, the believably (and likeability) of the characters and the care and quality of the writing. In other words, 'Garbage in/Garbage out'. Disney and especially Lucasfilm has a shaky track record. You have, for example, poorly written and crafted movies such as the sequel trilogy (take TFA for example: It was merely a redoing of ANH in plot and even many of the characters), The Acolyte, or Kenobi, yet they also produced Rogue One, Andor, the last season of The Clone Wars and The Mandalorian (at least the first two seasons). The difference between these good and bad results was mostly the quality of the story-line, the crafting of believable and sympathetic characters (and not all sympathetic characters have to be morally good people), and the care and logic of the 'universe' or setting that where these stories take place. Good writing, directing and producing usually results in quality stories, no matter what formula (such as the Hero's Journey) is used. This is true for even Comedies. The late John Hughes, for example: he was a master writer/director/producer of comedies that have survived as classics. Planes,Trains and Automobiles, Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Home Alone, National Lampoon's Christmas Vacation, Pretty in Pink, The Breakfast Club and more. He put a relatable human element in his comedies that resonated with viewers, just as Tony Gilroy does in his completely serious Andor. Quality writing/producing/directing is far more important than what type of story you write.

  • @jacobsedlack1173
    @jacobsedlack1173 5 днів тому +3

    It's a good thing if you can see the pattern and know where the story is going to go, that means you're paying attention and are capable of following along, the problem is when the story is told to you poorly or incompetently.

  • @Eh_D-Man
    @Eh_D-Man 5 днів тому

    See I think that stories being similar are what makes stories so timeless. Morally gray is interesting in the moment. But the classics, much like Star Wars being based on the hero’s journey, are timeless because they can reach everyone in a way throughout time.
    GoT and Andor are great entertainment. Lord of the Rings and the Original Trilogy are timeless.

  • @marknovak6498
    @marknovak6498 5 днів тому

    There are about 36 different types of stories that can be told. the difference is in how it is treated.

  • @jdstudios1912
    @jdstudios1912 5 днів тому

    I don't think originality is dead, people still write good stories but the big companies everyone pays attention to don't have an original bone in their body.

  • @hollowatelier
    @hollowatelier 5 днів тому

    Originality isn't dead. That's ridiculous and anyone who says otherwise has stuck too close to their own interests and haven't made an effort to explore new things.
    Additionally, Originality is a risk. To make something truly novel, you have to go outside what is expected and appreciated. Many, many Artists are only appreciated well after their deaths if only because their work was ahead of the times.
    Companies and Organizations that are risk-adverse because of their products being expensive to produce: are not going to create something unique and novel. They can't afford the risk.
    Indie groups? Small companies? They're where the originality lies. They have more to gain, and less to lose.

  • @greatazuredragon
    @greatazuredragon 5 днів тому

    No, it isn't. Its just that they refuse to put forth the effort needed to create something new.

  • @Hot_SpicyGrill
    @Hot_SpicyGrill 5 днів тому

    The original films aren’t made anymore because they’re all made on film. 😔
    I’d love a film not made with film. Lmao.
    Originally isn’t dead, people just lose themselves up their own ass.

  • @JoelAdamson
    @JoelAdamson 5 днів тому

    Note that ASOIAF is unfinished...

  • @lordcarnorjax8599
    @lordcarnorjax8599 4 дні тому

    To be honest I'm a little bit sick of all the morally grey villains or anti heroes we've been getting lately. Don't get me wrong I do like those stories but there's just so many of them and most of the morally grey characters motivations haven't been the greatest either. Morally grey or even a turn back from villain has to be really well written for it to work and Hollywood writers miss with this way more often than they hit.

  • @vestarakhai5303
    @vestarakhai5303 5 днів тому

    Originality isn't dead however original writing is going by the wayside these days

  • @DecoderWalrus
    @DecoderWalrus 5 днів тому

    No, I do not love Peter Dinklage.

  • @shaifunnessa7816
    @shaifunnessa7816 4 дні тому

    Morally grey is not good main character hero become evils end main character died

  • @richardsylvester4518
    @richardsylvester4518 5 днів тому +1

    Not in mainstream media no there sre no origional ideas. Thats the point of it bieng mainstream. But if you argue there are no new stories left you are ignorant to obscure books and comics and other forms of media. Just expand your horizons a bit and dig a bit deeper for the lesser known and unique stories out there.

  • @rd-um4sp
    @rd-um4sp 5 днів тому

    false logic. no new stories does not mean originality is dead. there are no new stories to be told. but there are innumerable ways to tell them. It is not what you tell but how you tell it.
    Besides, there are new people being born everyday. an old story for me but it is a new story to someone younger.