Same could be said of Frasier. His moving away from his son seems totally out of character. So that's not the issue. The issue with Joey was that it had a lot of female writers, and females can't write comedy very well.
A huge issue with the show is that it never really feels like it actually tries to be something completely different than Friends but still wants to be Friends and keep that identity. It's like Shrodinger's Friends.
@@Stubagful Yep. It's quite disappointing that neither Kevin Bright, nor some of the other producers/writers on Friends didn't look at *Frasier* for a point of reference. On how to execute a spin-off to success. Knowing Frasier ended up winning 37 Emmys ... and it all started from that character in Cheers: Dr. Frasier Crane. That reminds me, the failure of Joey the spin-off was also symptomatic of NBC and Warner Brothers, being more concerned in milking out Friends for a cheap $$$ cash grab than trying to do something really meaningful with his character. You get what you preach they say.
Matt le blanc did say he wished all his failures were like 'Joey' because he made a ton of money. Love how honest that guy is. Completely agree with your criticism. When you watched it it felt like something was missing but it did had is moments. I have seen worse shows last longer. Personally I enjoyed season 2 more.
I actually think they could have made a pretty funny series focused around Joey’s career as a soap opera actor. Make it like a 30 Rock, but a soap instead of a sketch show.
Ross turning into a Michael Scott-like character, in an environment hybriding "The Office" and "30 Rock" would have been god-tier comedy. Besides, David Schwimmer is easily the best physical comedy actor out of the six
My plain theory about why Joey never worked was simply that the character of Joey was designed to work in combination with the other equally strong and fleshed out characters in Friends. Characters who together with Joey could carry the weight of the show. All the new characters didnt feel like real people and fell flat next to Joey. It felt like they were just created to fill up the stage so that Joey didnt stand there alone. They werent there own people, the were just there to support "Joey". The main character.
Agreed, Joey could have worked just fine as a character with these plot lines I feel. But there needed to be stronger characters around him with strong storylines. And having them be family members works since Joey’s family was not used much on Friends. The characters and writing just wasn’t strong enough. And Joey probably should have dealt with something bigger too later on like becoming a step-dad or actual father
Matt LeBlanc had a great follow up where he played himself - or a more depraved version of himself - in this series called Episodes. He allowed his Joey typecast to work for him with lots of self deprecating humor. Funny show.
With a supporting cast of Chris Rock and Ben Stiller, and starring Jada Pinkett Smith as the new love interest (J-Anne was too expensive). Also featuring Sacha Barron Cohen as King Julien.
it's why Frasier is the most successful spin-off ever. they took an already established character, and changed him for the better, and the show has its own heart and soul and most people even forget it's a Cheers spin-off
For Joey, It wasn't the same character, it was shoehorning a known character into a completely unrelated premise. Frasier was still Frasier. Joey became a completely different character.
Your spin-off idea for Phoebe sounds really cool, I wish they'd made that one! I guess it makes sense that Joey of all the 6 got picked for a spin-off since his story didn't get tied up with a 'happy ending' arc like the others in Friends?
Its my head canon that JOEY is actually a TV show in the FRIENDS universe that Joey Tribbiani starred in off the back of his success with recent movie. It explains why the character of Joey in JOEY is nothing like he is in FRIENDS and why his sister looks so different.
Phoebe was the heart of friends, same as Kramer was in Seinfeld. Their friends mocked them, took them for granted, underestimated them, and yet they were the most loyal and ultimately dependable.
I would have watched the Chandler show. Matthew Perry was on a show about Saturday Night Live without the humor. Aaron Sorkin wrote that and movie about I Love Lucy without humor. Weird. I dont think any of the six characters could have a successful spin off.
Kramer was a flakey mooch who was pretty much always in it for himself lol. But he was hilarious and his physical comedy made him a fan favorite. There wasn't really a "heart" in Seinfeld in the way that friends had - Larry David's two rules were always: no lessons learned, and no hugs.
My pitch for Joey would have been a show following Joey as that one friend who has had all their other friends move on and make families and careers and him also dealing with his acting career move into a new position, with him now starting to be cast as dads and roles for older actors rather than the handsome lead and his ego not coping with it. Maybe even have the set of a show as one of the main sets where Joey has to play a role of a dad that he hates and regularly complains about and tries pitching stupid ideas to the showrunner but as he matures as a person he learns that his role is just as good as his old roles were. Maybe have a fan appear in an episode and tell Joey that his role meant a lot to him as he didn't have a father figure to look up to or something and that makes him actually start to care about his role, which could then lead to him giving an award win performance, rewarding him for his character growth, maybe between those two stories you could have the role almost taken away from him because the showrunner has had enough of Joey's nonsense and Joey has to fight to keep the role that he originally never wanted. There's a whole season of comedy, character development and continuing the idea that friends was a point in people's lives and this is the point where people move forward into their later years. Other plot points could be Joey meeting his inspiration to become an actor, as with all these shows an obligatory will they won't they odd couple, maybe a character who is a rising star who Joey begrudgingly takes under his wing while also being at first jealous but as he matures becomes more of a friend and mentor (mirroring his development in his acting career), maybe some stories that look at the struggles of acting and the problems in the acting industry (which could challenge Joey's attitudes towards women, which worked fine as the vomic relief character but wouldn't as the main character, as maybe his love interest is treated unfairly and/or harassed and he decides to fight for her, subsequently putting his job at risk, maybe he has a dream role but loses it because of this and that's why he ends up in the role he hates). Also have characters that aren't just not the other characters from friends but actual original characters. It could have been a good comedy with good character development where Joey matures through failure and struggling with the passing of time (fitting in with the ending of friends with that time in people's lives being over except Joey got left behind) and allowed to have its own identity rather than being not friends. There's a lot that could be done with a Joey spin off but they went into it not knowing what to actually do with the spin off (saying that I literally just came up with several character arcs in 10 minutes).
@@harish123az it might be my more British sense of humour (I do enjoy dark comedies more where things don't work out entirely as planned), there's plenty of room for comedy in the idea, it is a show following Joey, who is a larger than life character, (just comedy that reflects that time of your life) but it would at least be interesting and explore the character of Joey (who now being the main character rather than comic relief character, needs more dimensions) as he reaches his mid life and has to accept changes in his life (like not being cast as the main young handsome lead anymore but as dad roles) and grow up to deal with them (which Joey has a lot of growing up to do), not to mention giving the show its own feel and setting it apart from friends (while also being part of the same universe, you could even have past friends characters make cameos). Or you just do not friends and have a completely consequence free comedy with no stakes. I myself would pick the former.
Concept for a Friends sequel: it's been 20 years and they're all at fdifferant points in their lives, as you described. But instead it's a single show named something like "freinds and family" where they're all navigating their own tangentially related stories with eachother as they tell eachother about their lives in a group chat.
I always found it odd how the show seems to go out of its way to never reference friends. If my memory is correct Joey doesn’t even speak the names of any of his best friends even in passing. You’d think he’d have at least a phone call with chandler.
He mentions Rachel a couple of times. I remember rumours there were gonna be cameos. Guessing it would've cemented the fact the show was coattail riding the entire time so probably a wise move overall
@@Stubagful I get them wanting to avoid cameos in season 1. They’d want it to establish it as it’s own thing. But would have been a guaranteed way to boost ratings for season 2. Chandler would absolutely come out to visit him. And by season 2 it was, as you pointed out, failing to get away from feeling like friends so might as well have embraced it. 🤷♂️
I think what's most interesting to me is that a lot of the Joey show you're pitching in this video exists now, and was Matt LeBlanc's first show after Joey. If you've never seen Episodes before, I highly recommend it. Certainly has its peaks and troughs, but especially the first season is fantastic.
Episodes is basically what Joey the spin-off should have been. And it's great that Matt and David Crane went on board with it. You know, as a small reunion.
I think if any of the friends cast had had a spinoff you'd be making this exact video saying Joey should have had a spinoff showing him pursuing his acting career. It had a good premise but bad writing.
Not really because at least the other spin off concepts are at least trying to do something new and not just be an uninteresting show with Joey, the two dimensional comic relief, as the lead with not Ross, not phoebe, not Rachel and not Monica. Not to mention the issue raised in the video where the show has no stakes or character development.
@@charlestownsend9280 *Frasier* joins the chat ... Yes, you're right. Joey the spin-off was a deadbeat from the start, because, the spin-off had the whole wrong approach. Not just before producing, writing and filming of the first episode took place. This is about the last 2x seasons of Friends, including the Joey & Rachel fling, that was completely bogus right from the start, in addition to further dumbing down Joey's character.
27:09 What you said about your realisation that Friends was truly gone reminded me of how I felt when watching the final 4 episodes of Better Call Saul. By that point, the show had wrapped its major plot-lines and said goodbye to its major characters as they all headed into Breaking Bad. And yet the show still kept going for a few episodes more. Bob Odenkirk was now the last member of the main cast still standing; the show was now filmed in black and white; it had moved into a completely different setting; the opening credits had changed and we got a whole new musical score. But the biggest thing of all was that unlike the rest of the show, these episodes took place AFTER Breaking Bad, meaning all bets were off and anything was possible. This final run of episodes was such an eerie experience, which not even the brief and colourful flashbacks to the show’s past could dull. It was a really poignant way to end the show, and I loved every second of it.
Funny you should mention BCS, it’s THE prime example how you take a member of an ensemble cast (and a character who was even more one dimensional than Joey), flesh out their character and build a new show around them. It helped that a few other BB regulars came over but it would have fallen flat had they not so expertly expanded upon Saul’s character and backstory. BCS is at least as good as its predecessor and I wouldn’t argue with anyone who preferred it.
This comes up a lot when Dr Who spin-offs conversations happen. A good spin off should allow us to tell a story we can't with the main show. 3 seasons into Friends atm, not sure if Joey could support a spin off on his own.
That's what I like about the big finish doctor who spin offs, they tend to take advantage of the fact that it's an adventure without the doctor, like a victorian mystery series or a dark mirror of the doctors adventures following the war master or crazy stories following Bernice summerfield or really dark stories with the doctor in alternate tinelines where you can go way darker than a standard story (like ending a story with the doctors adopted daughter shooting the doctor and continuing to kill every incarnation they regenerated into). My issue with the RTD era spin offs is that they were slightly different but never really figured out their own identity, in a good way, Sarah Jane, although good for what it was, was just doctor who but less of a budget and solely for children (which I don't have a problem with, franchises should cater for all audiences not just me) and torchwood was doctor who with sex, guns and swearing, and written in the style of what teenagers think is adult (with exception of children of earth, it seemed to find itself then). I know that RTD wants to make more spin offs, I do hope that they're a bit more unique than just children's and teens doctor who but something different that has an interesting premise.
@@charlestownsend9280 I mean whilst target demographic and age had an impact, I still think that Torchwood and Sarah Jane let you tell stories you can't with the Dr. Out of Time, Children of Earth and Goodbye Sarah Jane flat out don't work if the Dr is the main protagonist.
@@thevacuumofcomments2946 Those spin-offs also were based around fixed locations rather than using the TARDIS as the home base. Sure, the 70’s used the Third Doctor’s exile to set up UNIT as base of operations with a regular supporting cast, but midway through season 8 the writers were already taking the Doctor off-world. While RTD seasons would have the Doctor and companion regularly return to the same time and place, these visits were more rest stops and ways to include companion families rather than the Doctor being stationed in the Powell Estate or Chiswick.
@@thevacuumofcomments2946 yeah children of earth is what I wish torchwood was from the start as it felt like its own show with its own identity and a uniqueness that justified it, the first two seasons had the odd good story but did kind of just feel like edgy doctor who for teens (not really got a problem with specific demographics being targeted, more just it felt like it was just doctor who for teens rather than a show with its own identity for teens set in the doctor who universe). Same with Sarah Jane, it had a few really good stories that stand out, like the one where time was changed so that she died as a child but the majority did just feel like and followed the same format as doctor who and torchwood, they all had a team, a central very alien base and dealt with an alien of the week (which I think is what made children of earth work so well is that it had a very different feel, it felt like a different show set in the same universe, not just the same universe but kiddy or edgy, if that makes sense). It's possibly also all three airing at the same time didn't help with that problem either, as it was very easy to compare the similarities and see how similar they all were. To me a spin off should be more than more of the same, they should be a corner of the universe that we don't get in the main show. I liked both torchwood and Sarah Jane but I don't think that they really did what a spin off should do. The same problem is with Joey, rather than being its own thing in the same universe it was just another version of friends.
I always imagined a spinoff with Joey moving to Hollywood and meeting many young aspiring actor, and discovering he way too outdated and less talented than the more self aware generation. And although at first he would try to compete and do foolish things that he is too old for, he would end up wanting to help the ones close to him and finding a new passion in actually teaching acting and helping younger generation. He would also mature together with his students, eventually getting a breakthrough sometime after a few years of developing. Maybe even sabotaging his own audition so that one of his struggling students can get the part.
The dark humour comment I think is spot-on, a while back a writer said once they were told the episodes they were writing weren’t going to air (they just needed to make them to satisfy contracts) they wanted Joey to offhandedly say Ross and Rachel were dead… and honestly if they’d gotten that joke in it would have doubled the show’s legacy.
Worth noting that while Zach essentially appears out of nowhere as Joey’s new best friend at the start of season 2, he leaves in the second half of the season without mention and is never referenced again. Just really clumsily put together.
You may or may not be aware of this, but here in the U.S. Joey Season 1 isn't even available to stream, it's very difficult to get your hands on. It really does seem that NBC wants to hide it and protect the brand of Friends as it was during its original 10 season run.
@@Stubagful thanks for reminding me that young Sheldon exists, now I can have another existential crisis as I try to think who it could possibly have been made for, and how the hell it's still going.
I actually liked Joey - it had a lot of hilarious moments and it had a stellar cast. I also enjoy that one of my favourite Guest actors on Friends ended up playing my favourite supporting character in Joey. It's main problem is that it was a sequel to a phenomenon that only continued with one character. Because friends was about a group of people with very different types of humour, Joey felt like it lost something because it lost the variability of humour. Joey jokes are great when you have the balancing factor or Chandler jokes and Phoebe jokes, but Joey was largely concentrated Joey jokes. The new imbalance was jarring for a lot of people who came to the (incorrect imo) conclusion that Joey wasn't good. Were it a standalone show, I think people would have judged it more objectively and liked it more. Having said that, I'm kind of glad it ended when it did. If it hadn't ended, they would have unlikely been available to create 'The Class', which was such a great show. Had the writers strike not happened, I fully believe The Class would have been the next Friends and would have been huge.
“It's main problem is that it was a sequel to a phenomenon that only continued with one character”. that didn’t seem to be a problem a few years previously, when the original series of “frasier” began as a spin-off of another hugely successful show (cheers). although, ironically, the problems you described could be used to describe the current re-boot of frasier (i.e. lack of any of the supporting cast from the original series of frasier).
@@nl5828 I think it's less jarring when the character is more of the straightman, but when it's one of the silliest characters like Joey, it's more of a risk. Like a spinoff with Ross & Rachel may have been more likely to work because the silliness would have been more from the supporting characters, making their journey a bit more grounded in reality, but because Joey was already silly, some of the supporting characters had to be ridiculous in comparison. I found them hilarious in how ridiculous they were, but I can imagine that may be grating for some people in a way friends wasn't.
I think there is an interesting idea at the heart of Joey as a spinoff show. Instead of writing it as an ensemble piece with a will-they-won't-they love story; why don't they focus on Joey's acting career and the way he approaches roles can not only establish great comedy but also present opportunities where he might have to make difficult decisions like for instance he has to turn down a role on a mini-series where he is having a strong romance with the understudy of his leading lady to work on a cheesey sci-fi along the lines of star trekk and he gets the lead part but he's miserable or something, it would give us a chance to get inside his head, properly as a character and also add some of that gut-wrenching realism masqrading as sitcom laughs that we came to expect from friends but with a little more Joey charm. Also the idea about a Pheobe spinoff sounds like something I would get engrossed in someone with an initial dark past going on a journey of self-discovery only to find it kind of having darker implications does sound like a reversal of the remember those days - good times - type of comedy/dramas of yore and having mike as a partner this couple dynamic would be an interesting contrast since he came from privilege and doesn't get things about her, has so much potential great video as always 👍
@Joshua Williams Excellent concept. Totally agree. I mean, just like it was interesting to see and discover the world of psychology and therapy through what Dr. Frasier Crane does in his own spin-off: *Frasier* ... Similarly, apply that to Joey and to his acting/entertainment career. It would have been both insightful and hilarious.
Turns out "Joey" pitched both one of Bojack Horseman most iconic visual gags (the HOLLYWOO one) and one of its most memorable episodes all around (the eulogy one)
What are you talking about? He starred in a number of films in the 90's and likely would have been the equivalent to like a Paul Rudd if he didn't scuttle his own career with pills and booze.
I don’t think they needed to move, Rachel was going to Paris more to change her life after she felt she was stuck, rather than actually wanting to live in Paris (she didn’t even know French). She can find a new job in New York she could feel is challenging. Ross has Ben, their family (including now Monica and Chandler’s twins who are cousins to Ross’s kids) live in US.
Another big, big problem with Joey was its OBLIVIOUSNESS - it's set on the same UNIVERSE as Friends is, but it's not consistent with it. Joey absolutely knows how to play poker from Season 1, Ep. 18, of Friends ("The One With All The Poker"). The actor Adam Goldberg, who plays Jimmy, Michael's Father, plays ANOTHER CHARACTER in Friends - Eddie Manoick, Chandler's crazy roommate in Season 2, Eps. 17-19, of Friends. These are some examples of how the Joey series broke our investment and suspension of disbelief, as it became clear it was passionless to viewers.
I'm happy to find someone that liked JOEY even a little😂 If there was a motivation material to keep watching this, at the very minimum I would've wanted every episode to have a small scene in the avant, with Joey hanging up the phone from someone in FRIENDS saying like "OK, talk to you later Chandler! And Monica shouting mom-things back there!" Just to give us an idea they're all doing good.
I’d love to see you cover the Friends reunion special! James Corden jumping on Matthew Perry with the “and who doesn’t call?” question when he has historically struggled with depression never sat right with me and I’d love to see you dissect the special since you dissect friends stuff so well!
Frasier was successful because he was a side character, and there was still so much of his personality left unexplored. If you want to create a spin-off from Friends, you can't really go with any of the main characters.
The Comeback is not a spinoff of Friends, Liza Kudrow does not play Phebe, but an actress who used to be one of the stars of a comedy that lasted many season and now is filming a reality TV show about her being part of a new show in which she is not a main character. It is one of the most amazing shows ever, as she never gets to be in the right spot: she wants to be the star she once was and at the same time she struggels to be "real" but never wants to show reality. Liza is just amazing.
I believe the reason Joey failed is it tried too hard to separate itself from Friends. They even have the dude that played Chandler's former roommate on an episode but playing a different character. They had David schwimmer direct an episode but not be on camera as Ross. I think how I met your father is doing the spin-off thing right because they're actually having some old characters come back.
Bob Odenkirk stared in a fantastic show that's a good spin off and a good prequel, Better Call Saul. What makes Better Call Saul a good comic relief spin off and a good prequel is that it does a fantastic job at characterizing Saul Goodman and other Breaking Bad characters along with new characters. Bob Odenkirk would have been known for 2 fantastic con roles if he didn't turn down voicing Stan Pines.
The lack of focus on an actor’s acting career also brings to mind Penny from Big Bang Theory. She’s an aspiring actress looking for her big break but her attempts at this, when the plot does focus on them, are played for laughs such as losing out on being a dead hooker in CSI or being cast in a very cheesy B move where her character is turned into an ape (although that does delve a bit into her being invited to a convention because of the role). Eventually she transitions into another career because acting hasn’t worked out for her.
Friends was phenomenally popular in Britain, where it aired on terrestial channel channel four. When Joey began, it's rival channel five paid a huge sum to get the rights to it. But it didn't get the ratings they wanted. In the end reruns of Friends on four were getting better ratings than new episodes of Joey on five.
I always imagined that at the end of Joey Joey moved back to New York to live in the apartment above Chandler and Monica’s garage, helped Chandler & Monica raise Jack & Erica & he gets a job as a theater teacher since he has so much trouble finding acting work. I enjoyed your spin off ideas for shows about Phoebe and Chandler. I’d like to add some further commentary for idea for Chandler. I’d liked to have seen what kind of relationship Chandler had with his father and if Monica made amends with her mother for how shifty she treated her.
i think the Joey spin-off was a good demonstration why the original show didn't have as many Joey centric story arcs compared to the other characters. Him carrying most of the show just doesn't work too well
I liked Ross. He was really sweet to his friends as needed getting phoebe a bike and just doing little things for his friends even Joey and for Rachel being there for her dad I don’t know why everyone didn’t like him
Ironically, I'm one of the few who never saw an episode of Friends and saw Joey first. I didn't seek it out but I just happened to catch it when I was surfing channels. I was about to change the channel until I saw Drea de Matteo in the cast. As a Sopranos fan the show suddenly caught my interest. Without the Friends baggage I was able to watch the show with a clean slate and judge it on it's own merits (or lack thereof) Overall I thought it had some good moments but it was just an average sit com.
I didn't mind the Joey spinoff but I had also forgotten it existed. I've always thought it was weird that Phoebe would successfully transition into a middle class mainstream suburban parent. Maybe a show about Phoebe trying to be one thing and eventually finding her next group of friends from the equally quirky outliers in a community would work better.
The best friends spin off that wasn't even a friends spin off was Episodes Where Matt Leblanc stars as a version of Himself but you can tell he's playing Joey
I remember being excited in 2004, as Joey was the least well-developed Friends member (he turned from 'womaniser but with a heart of gold', to Mr. Bean) and the hope was they could do for Joey what Frasier did for well, Frasier. What we got was desperation and push-up bras. Enjoyed the vid! Esp. your pitches for other spin-offs, so it's constructive criticism, offering solutions and ideas. Good job!
I like your three Friends spinoff ideas, I think a reunion could maybe help advance story archs in the show, and actually mean something besides just nostalgic pandering.
I honestly think they thought they could replicate other sitcoms spin-offs such as the Mary Tyler Moore and the Rhonda spinoff but the problem is that having 5 main protagonist in friends makes it difficult to actually do it
I think a good idea for a spinoff now would be that Dina (Joeys pregnant sister that Rachel talked with, and Dina concinced joey that it was the right decision to keep her baby) and her husband (the band guy) would go through some sort of financial crisis, or even death of her husband or both dina and her husband. Dina leaves her son in joeys care, and joey is stuck having to forcefully settle down and learn to be a dad to a younger kid/teen. He can also be trying to navigate aging in his acting career, and the hook could be anything from "will he get another big break" to "will he make it through his first year of parenting his nephew without totally screwing him up?" etc.
I personally love the show. Theyre SO easy watching. Theyre light hearted, fun little episodes. No where near the level of Friends but I think its so underrated. I personally really like Joey and Alex's relationship. Jimmy is a hilarious character. It is very similar to season 9-10 of friends. Its a shame season 2 is so hard to get. I think it actually ties up really nicely.
I was never a big fan of Friends so this comes from an outsider: The only way I can see this character handling a spinoff would be to have him be a guy that used to be on a wildly popular show trying to figure out what to do next. People would stop him on the street to repeat catchphrases of the old show to him, casting directors would keep trying to shove him into the same old role and so on. The show would be about Joey trying to navigate establishing a persona outside his old show while also trying to deal with the nostalgia for that era of his life. It woudl be highlh serialized and focus as much on the pathos of the situation as the comedy. Yes, I just described a form of Bojack Horseman - which is another show I have seen but didn't totally connect with. But if I were handed this character and told to make a show... this is what I'd do since it'd be really hard to just move that character into a different show.
I happen to own the dvd copies of Joey 2. I think I rented them from Netflix years ago and then ripped them to my hd. I can't remember if i finished watching them or not, they were just that uninteresting. But, Matt LeBlanc did get it right with his 2011-2017 show about the behind the scenes ridiculousness of the industry, with his show on Showtime, Episodes. Love that show.
I was working and in school during this period of my life. I missed the last few seasons of Friend which was a show I enjoyed. I never watched Joey for the same reason.
Maybe Joey could have worked if it was Joey and another Friend moving to LA. Phoebe and Joey for example. That way he could still play off one of the Friends while still being in the spotlight. More importantly you could have Joey struggling to adapt to a straight man role as he gets older while Phoebe stays as somewhat aloof.
I remember bingeing Joey and I'm 95% sure it included Season 2 of Joey, and yet I recall... very little of it. All I do remember is I was playing Stalker Clear Sky and then Call of Pripyat at the time~
I always felt like they should've done a spinoff with Monica and Chandler raising their family with Janice next door and Anna Farris coming in and out. I think that's more of a captivating sitcom with a variety of stories and dynamics there. It also seemed logically the better show concept to transition to. I personally considered Joey one of my least favorite characters, because I could only handle buffoonery for so long. When you get a full episode of it, then that's probably why so many felt turned off from it as well.
Thank you for the insightful analysis 😊 Do one on Frasier and why it works as Cheers spin-off. And why Young Sheldon works as a spin off of Big Bang Theory
My family actually owns DVD copies of Joey and watches it on occasion After the friends marathon, to complete the series lol. Since phoebe was my favorite character I think I would've preferred the phoebe spinoff but I realize that would've involved getting Paul rudd to agree to be on for at least a season or two
If you want a good book that comments on the toxic Hollywood industry about a celerity that lived a tragic BoJack Horseman life, I recommend Jennette Mccurdy memoir I'm Glad My Mom Died.
pheobe could've been in a how i met your mother style in terms of a prequel but then woven in with scenes from the present, like in therapy or talking to her kids.
the major problem with Joey as a show for me is that Joey the character would never ever move away from the other friends
Same could be said of Frasier. His moving away from his son seems totally out of character. So that's not the issue. The issue with Joey was that it had a lot of female writers, and females can't write comedy very well.
@Spenser that's plainly bullshit. There were more male writers, and the few female writers worked on Rosanne, 30 Rock and Modern Family.
@@spenser9908 Sexist much?
@@spenser9908 bro you're bringing gender into this when it has nothing to do with gender
@@awesomesauce2000 the use of "feeeemaaaaales" tells us everything we need to know 😂
A huge issue with the show is that it never really feels like it actually tries to be something completely different than Friends but still wants to be Friends and keep that identity. It's like Shrodinger's Friends.
"Shrodinger's Friends" - a sitcom based on the life of Ernest Shroedinger - his friends are all ghosts and he's never sure if they exist or not
@@Stubagful This Does Sound Somwhat interesting Un-like Joey.
@@Stubagful That sounds a bit like if you turn Beautiful Mind into a weirdly uncomfortable comedy.
@@Stubagful Yep. It's quite disappointing that neither Kevin Bright, nor some of the other producers/writers on Friends didn't look at *Frasier* for a point of reference. On how to execute a spin-off to success. Knowing Frasier ended up winning 37 Emmys ... and it all started from that character in Cheers: Dr. Frasier Crane.
That reminds me, the failure of Joey the spin-off was also symptomatic of NBC and Warner Brothers, being more concerned in milking out Friends for a cheap $$$ cash grab than trying to do something really meaningful with his character. You get what you preach they say.
@@victorsamsung2921 so true
Matt le blanc did say he wished all his failures were like 'Joey' because he made a ton of money. Love how honest that guy is. Completely agree with your criticism. When you watched it it felt like something was missing but it did had is moments. I have seen worse shows last longer. Personally I enjoyed season 2 more.
Yet the actor was the most successful of the boys
I actually think they could have made a pretty funny series focused around Joey’s career as a soap opera actor. Make it like a 30 Rock, but a soap instead of a sketch show.
The writing was horrible.
@@JohnjOcampo is a terrible person
@@mattalan6618 why and how?
I would've loved to see a show about Chandler and Monicas family life after "Friends". Perry and Cox had a great chemistry together.
That would have been interesting. They had unexpected twins, seems like there could have been a lot of material there.
Matthew Perry would have been too busy stuffing his face with drugs and drink
I just finished writing a fan fiction about Emma’s relationship with her cousins Jack & Erica & her half brother Ben if you’d like to read it.
@@Showtunediva I would love to read it!
@@Showtunediva i would totally read it! can you send it to me please
Ross turning into a Michael Scott-like character, in an environment hybriding "The Office" and "30 Rock" would have been god-tier comedy. Besides, David Schwimmer is easily the best physical comedy actor out of the six
My plain theory about why Joey never worked was simply that the character of Joey was designed to work in combination with the other equally strong and fleshed out characters in Friends. Characters who together with Joey could carry the weight of the show. All the new characters didnt feel like real people and fell flat next to Joey. It felt like they were just created to fill up the stage so that Joey didnt stand there alone. They werent there own people, the were just there to support "Joey". The main character.
Tends to happen when you name the show literally the main characters name
it didn’t happen with the original seasons of “frasier”.
although i would say your comments would be spot on for the frasier re-make so far.
He’s a sidekick and not a main character
Es algo parecido a planet Sheen de jimmy neutron
Agreed, Joey could have worked just fine as a character with these plot lines I feel. But there needed to be stronger characters around him with strong storylines. And having them be family members works since Joey’s family was not used much on Friends. The characters and writing just wasn’t strong enough. And Joey probably should have dealt with something bigger too later on like becoming a step-dad or actual father
Matt LeBlanc had a great follow up where he played himself - or a more depraved version of himself - in this series called Episodes. He allowed his Joey typecast to work for him with lots of self deprecating humor. Funny show.
yeah but the show only lasted 3 seasons. but i did like how he made fun of himself every time
That was a great show!
A really great show and so well played by Matt.
Totally agree. Episodes was a better spin off (even though it was not a spin off) than Joey.
@@retrogiftsuk4812 i feel like in another dimension it could have been
I thought a Ross spin-off would be him turning into a giraffe and becoming a castaway on an island on the continent of Africa
With a supporting cast of Chris Rock and Ben Stiller, and starring Jada Pinkett Smith as the new love interest (J-Anne was too expensive). Also featuring Sacha Barron Cohen as King Julien.
it's why Frasier is the most successful spin-off ever. they took an already established character, and changed him for the better, and the show has its own heart and soul and most people even forget it's a Cheers spin-off
For Joey, It wasn't the same character, it was shoehorning a known character into a completely unrelated premise. Frasier was still Frasier. Joey became a completely different character.
The best thing about a spinoff like Frasier is that "wait, it's a spinoff?" excitement.
Your spin-off idea for Phoebe sounds really cool, I wish they'd made that one! I guess it makes sense that Joey of all the 6 got picked for a spin-off since his story didn't get tied up with a 'happy ending' arc like the others in Friends?
Its my head canon that JOEY is actually a TV show in the FRIENDS universe that Joey Tribbiani starred in off the back of his success with recent movie. It explains why the character of Joey in JOEY is nothing like he is in FRIENDS and why his sister looks so different.
I have fallen asleep to this video, only to be awoken by the 7 days horror face in the end. I don't think I will sleep tonight, thanks.
Dude same here that shit has ruined my night holy fuck
Phoebe was the heart of friends, same as Kramer was in Seinfeld. Their friends mocked them, took them for granted, underestimated them, and yet they were the most loyal and ultimately dependable.
I would have watched the Chandler show. Matthew Perry was on a show about Saturday Night Live without the humor. Aaron Sorkin wrote that and movie about I Love Lucy without humor. Weird. I dont think any of the six characters could have a successful spin off.
Kramer was a flakey mooch who was pretty much always in it for himself lol. But he was hilarious and his physical comedy made him a fan favorite. There wasn't really a "heart" in Seinfeld in the way that friends had - Larry David's two rules were always: no lessons learned, and no hugs.
Who mocked Phoebe??
My pitch for Joey would have been a show following Joey as that one friend who has had all their other friends move on and make families and careers and him also dealing with his acting career move into a new position, with him now starting to be cast as dads and roles for older actors rather than the handsome lead and his ego not coping with it. Maybe even have the set of a show as one of the main sets where Joey has to play a role of a dad that he hates and regularly complains about and tries pitching stupid ideas to the showrunner but as he matures as a person he learns that his role is just as good as his old roles were. Maybe have a fan appear in an episode and tell Joey that his role meant a lot to him as he didn't have a father figure to look up to or something and that makes him actually start to care about his role, which could then lead to him giving an award win performance, rewarding him for his character growth, maybe between those two stories you could have the role almost taken away from him because the showrunner has had enough of Joey's nonsense and Joey has to fight to keep the role that he originally never wanted. There's a whole season of comedy, character development and continuing the idea that friends was a point in people's lives and this is the point where people move forward into their later years.
Other plot points could be Joey meeting his inspiration to become an actor, as with all these shows an obligatory will they won't they odd couple, maybe a character who is a rising star who Joey begrudgingly takes under his wing while also being at first jealous but as he matures becomes more of a friend and mentor (mirroring his development in his acting career), maybe some stories that look at the struggles of acting and the problems in the acting industry (which could challenge Joey's attitudes towards women, which worked fine as the vomic relief character but wouldn't as the main character, as maybe his love interest is treated unfairly and/or harassed and he decides to fight for her, subsequently putting his job at risk, maybe he has a dream role but loses it because of this and that's why he ends up in the role he hates).
Also have characters that aren't just not the other characters from friends but actual original characters. It could have been a good comedy with good character development where Joey matures through failure and struggling with the passing of time (fitting in with the ending of friends with that time in people's lives being over except Joey got left behind) and allowed to have its own identity rather than being not friends.
There's a lot that could be done with a Joey spin off but they went into it not knowing what to actually do with the spin off (saying that I literally just came up with several character arcs in 10 minutes).
Im not sure if vomic was a typo but that should definitely be a new word "vomic- something so funny it makes you throw up" 🤣
That sounds depressing as fuck, TBH
@@harish123az it might be my more British sense of humour (I do enjoy dark comedies more where things don't work out entirely as planned), there's plenty of room for comedy in the idea, it is a show following Joey, who is a larger than life character, (just comedy that reflects that time of your life) but it would at least be interesting and explore the character of Joey (who now being the main character rather than comic relief character, needs more dimensions) as he reaches his mid life and has to accept changes in his life (like not being cast as the main young handsome lead anymore but as dad roles) and grow up to deal with them (which Joey has a lot of growing up to do), not to mention giving the show its own feel and setting it apart from friends (while also being part of the same universe, you could even have past friends characters make cameos). Or you just do not friends and have a completely consequence free comedy with no stakes. I myself would pick the former.
Haha this UA-cam comment shouts “too high on adderall” 😂
Damn, you should have been the writer for Joey!!
Concept for a Friends sequel:
it's been 20 years and they're all at fdifferant points in their lives, as you described. But instead it's a single show named something like "freinds and family" where they're all navigating their own tangentially related stories with eachother as they tell eachother about their lives in a group chat.
I think that’s a great idea
Interesting
BORING!
@@HeinousMarlborough all friends sequels would be, friends was boring in the first place
@@ms.antithesis Yeah, dunno why I clicked on this.
I always found it odd how the show seems to go out of its way to never reference friends. If my memory is correct Joey doesn’t even speak the names of any of his best friends even in passing. You’d think he’d have at least a phone call with chandler.
He mentions Rachel a couple of times. I remember rumours there were gonna be cameos. Guessing it would've cemented the fact the show was coattail riding the entire time so probably a wise move overall
@@Stubagful I get them wanting to avoid cameos in season 1. They’d want it to establish it as it’s own thing. But would have been a guaranteed way to boost ratings for season 2. Chandler would absolutely come out to visit him.
And by season 2 it was, as you pointed out, failing to get away from feeling like friends so might as well have embraced it. 🤷♂️
I remember that Joey's sister thought that he and chandler were a couple? Something along those lines in a throwaway joke
I think what's most interesting to me is that a lot of the Joey show you're pitching in this video exists now, and was Matt LeBlanc's first show after Joey. If you've never seen Episodes before, I highly recommend it. Certainly has its peaks and troughs, but especially the first season is fantastic.
I think episodes is Matt LeBlanc's best stuff - such an excellent show and rips into all of the metatextual stuff.
Episodes is basically what Joey the spin-off should have been. And it's great that Matt and David Crane went on board with it. You know, as a small reunion.
Where can you find the show Episodes?
@@Showtunediva I mean idk which country you're in, it used to be on Netflix UK but I think it got taken down
Might be om amazon
@@LilyMaidenLove I live in America.
I think if any of the friends cast had had a spinoff you'd be making this exact video saying Joey should have had a spinoff showing him pursuing his acting career. It had a good premise but bad writing.
Not really because at least the other spin off concepts are at least trying to do something new and not just be an uninteresting show with Joey, the two dimensional comic relief, as the lead with not Ross, not phoebe, not Rachel and not Monica. Not to mention the issue raised in the video where the show has no stakes or character development.
@@charlestownsend9280 *Frasier* joins the chat ...
Yes, you're right. Joey the spin-off was a deadbeat from the start, because, the spin-off had the whole wrong approach. Not just before producing, writing and filming of the first episode took place. This is about the last 2x seasons of Friends, including the Joey & Rachel fling, that was completely bogus right from the start, in addition to further dumbing down Joey's character.
27:09 What you said about your realisation that Friends was truly gone reminded me of how I felt when watching the final 4 episodes of Better Call Saul. By that point, the show had wrapped its major plot-lines and said goodbye to its major characters as they all headed into Breaking Bad. And yet the show still kept going for a few episodes more.
Bob Odenkirk was now the last member of the main cast still standing; the show was now filmed in black and white; it had moved into a completely different setting; the opening credits had changed and we got a whole new musical score. But the biggest thing of all was that unlike the rest of the show, these episodes took place AFTER Breaking Bad, meaning all bets were off and anything was possible.
This final run of episodes was such an eerie experience, which not even the brief and colourful flashbacks to the show’s past could dull. It was a really poignant way to end the show, and I loved every second of it.
Funny you should mention BCS, it’s THE prime example how you take a member of an ensemble cast (and a character who was even more one dimensional than Joey), flesh out their character and build a new show around them. It helped that a few other BB regulars came over but it would have fallen flat had they not so expertly expanded upon Saul’s character and backstory. BCS is at least as good as its predecessor and I wouldn’t argue with anyone who preferred it.
@@karmicbacklash Enjoyed BCC to a degree but not a patch on BB
There will never be another show finale like BCS.
@@maxfrasierbcs > bb
@@KevinLuper99 bb>bcs
I never even knew there was a joey spin off until like 2 minutes ago
Bojack Horseman but with Joey Tribbiani as Bojack and set in the Friends universe? Yes, I would watch this!
This comes up a lot when Dr Who spin-offs conversations happen. A good spin off should allow us to tell a story we can't with the main show. 3 seasons into Friends atm, not sure if Joey could support a spin off on his own.
That's what I like about the big finish doctor who spin offs, they tend to take advantage of the fact that it's an adventure without the doctor, like a victorian mystery series or a dark mirror of the doctors adventures following the war master or crazy stories following Bernice summerfield or really dark stories with the doctor in alternate tinelines where you can go way darker than a standard story (like ending a story with the doctors adopted daughter shooting the doctor and continuing to kill every incarnation they regenerated into).
My issue with the RTD era spin offs is that they were slightly different but never really figured out their own identity, in a good way, Sarah Jane, although good for what it was, was just doctor who but less of a budget and solely for children (which I don't have a problem with, franchises should cater for all audiences not just me) and torchwood was doctor who with sex, guns and swearing, and written in the style of what teenagers think is adult (with exception of children of earth, it seemed to find itself then).
I know that RTD wants to make more spin offs, I do hope that they're a bit more unique than just children's and teens doctor who but something different that has an interesting premise.
@@charlestownsend9280 I mean whilst target demographic and age had an impact, I still think that Torchwood and Sarah Jane let you tell stories you can't with the Dr. Out of Time, Children of Earth and Goodbye Sarah Jane flat out don't work if the Dr is the main protagonist.
@@thevacuumofcomments2946 Those spin-offs also were based around fixed locations rather than using the TARDIS as the home base. Sure, the 70’s used the Third Doctor’s exile to set up UNIT as base of operations with a regular supporting cast, but midway through season 8 the writers were already taking the Doctor off-world. While RTD seasons would have the Doctor and companion regularly return to the same time and place, these visits were more rest stops and ways to include companion families rather than the Doctor being stationed in the Powell Estate or Chiswick.
@@thevacuumofcomments2946 yeah children of earth is what I wish torchwood was from the start as it felt like its own show with its own identity and a uniqueness that justified it, the first two seasons had the odd good story but did kind of just feel like edgy doctor who for teens (not really got a problem with specific demographics being targeted, more just it felt like it was just doctor who for teens rather than a show with its own identity for teens set in the doctor who universe). Same with Sarah Jane, it had a few really good stories that stand out, like the one where time was changed so that she died as a child but the majority did just feel like and followed the same format as doctor who and torchwood, they all had a team, a central very alien base and dealt with an alien of the week (which I think is what made children of earth work so well is that it had a very different feel, it felt like a different show set in the same universe, not just the same universe but kiddy or edgy, if that makes sense). It's possibly also all three airing at the same time didn't help with that problem either, as it was very easy to compare the similarities and see how similar they all were. To me a spin off should be more than more of the same, they should be a corner of the universe that we don't get in the main show. I liked both torchwood and Sarah Jane but I don't think that they really did what a spin off should do.
The same problem is with Joey, rather than being its own thing in the same universe it was just another version of friends.
I agree RTD would have never gotten away with Children of Earth if it was a David Tenant story.
I always imagined a spinoff with Joey moving to Hollywood and meeting many young aspiring actor, and discovering he way too outdated and less talented than the more self aware generation. And although at first he would try to compete and do foolish things that he is too old for, he would end up wanting to help the ones close to him and finding a new passion in actually teaching acting and helping younger generation. He would also mature together with his students, eventually getting a breakthrough sometime after a few years of developing. Maybe even sabotaging his own audition so that one of his struggling students can get the part.
Wasn't that an episode of Friends when he coached a kid get a role as a boxer in a movie
The dark humour comment I think is spot-on, a while back a writer said once they were told the episodes they were writing weren’t going to air (they just needed to make them to satisfy contracts) they wanted Joey to offhandedly say Ross and Rachel were dead… and honestly if they’d gotten that joke in it would have doubled the show’s legacy.
Worth noting that while Zach essentially appears out of nowhere as Joey’s new best friend at the start of season 2, he leaves in the second half of the season without mention and is never referenced again. Just really clumsily put together.
You may or may not be aware of this, but here in the U.S. Joey Season 1 isn't even available to stream, it's very difficult to get your hands on. It really does seem that NBC wants to hide it and protect the brand of Friends as it was during its original 10 season run.
Joey puts a bit of a chink in the armor of Friends’ coveted status of “not getting bad”.
Not supprised
Have the DVDs. Both seasons. First was fun. Second wasn’t much.
I'm six minutes in and I can tell you I would watch the shit out of any of those shows you suggested!
Thanks :) it's either than or "Young Phoebe" which would be an entirely straight faced gritty drama
@@Stubagful That would suit the zeitgeist.
@@Stubagful thanks for reminding me that young Sheldon exists, now I can have another existential crisis as I try to think who it could possibly have been made for, and how the hell it's still going.
@@joshuataylor3550 I’m actually amazed it isn’t already a thing
The Phoebe idea was really good.
I actually liked Joey - it had a lot of hilarious moments and it had a stellar cast. I also enjoy that one of my favourite Guest actors on Friends ended up playing my favourite supporting character in Joey. It's main problem is that it was a sequel to a phenomenon that only continued with one character. Because friends was about a group of people with very different types of humour, Joey felt like it lost something because it lost the variability of humour. Joey jokes are great when you have the balancing factor or Chandler jokes and Phoebe jokes, but Joey was largely concentrated Joey jokes. The new imbalance was jarring for a lot of people who came to the (incorrect imo) conclusion that Joey wasn't good. Were it a standalone show, I think people would have judged it more objectively and liked it more.
Having said that, I'm kind of glad it ended when it did. If it hadn't ended, they would have unlikely been available to create 'The Class', which was such a great show. Had the writers strike not happened, I fully believe The Class would have been the next Friends and would have been huge.
“It's main problem is that it was a sequel to a phenomenon that only continued with one character”.
that didn’t seem to be a problem a few years previously, when the original series of “frasier” began as a spin-off of another hugely successful show (cheers).
although, ironically, the problems you described could be used to describe the current re-boot of frasier (i.e. lack of any of the supporting cast from the original series of frasier).
@@nl5828 I think it's less jarring when the character is more of the straightman, but when it's one of the silliest characters like Joey, it's more of a risk. Like a spinoff with Ross & Rachel may have been more likely to work because the silliness would have been more from the supporting characters, making their journey a bit more grounded in reality, but because Joey was already silly, some of the supporting characters had to be ridiculous in comparison. I found them hilarious in how ridiculous they were, but I can imagine that may be grating for some people in a way friends wasn't.
46 episodes is not a flop. In today's tv 46 is a hit
Its not a financial flop its a cultural flop. Most people dont know it even exists
I didn't know Joey was a spin off. I'll have to check out this "Friends."
I think there is an interesting idea at the heart of Joey as a spinoff show. Instead of writing it as an ensemble piece with a will-they-won't-they love story; why don't they focus on Joey's acting career and the way he approaches roles can not only establish great comedy but also present opportunities where he might have to make difficult decisions like for instance he has to turn down a role on a mini-series where he is having a strong romance with the understudy of his leading lady to work on a cheesey sci-fi along the lines of star trekk and he gets the lead part but he's miserable or something, it would give us a chance to get inside his head, properly as a character and also add some of that gut-wrenching realism masqrading as sitcom laughs that we came to expect from friends but with a little more Joey charm.
Also the idea about a Pheobe spinoff sounds like something I would get engrossed in someone with an initial dark past going on a journey of self-discovery only to find it kind of having darker implications does sound like a reversal of the remember those days - good times - type of comedy/dramas of yore and having mike as a partner this couple dynamic would be an interesting contrast since he came from privilege and doesn't get things about her, has so much potential great video as always 👍
@Joshua Williams Excellent concept. Totally agree. I mean, just like it was interesting to see and discover the world of psychology and therapy through what Dr. Frasier Crane does in his own spin-off: *Frasier* ... Similarly, apply that to Joey and to his acting/entertainment career. It would have been both insightful and hilarious.
Turns out "Joey" pitched both one of Bojack Horseman most iconic visual gags (the HOLLYWOO one) and one of its most memorable episodes all around (the eulogy one)
The Chandler one is one I would actually watch. And give Matthew Perry his due, poor guy got left behind after Friends :(
left behind? He had a very successful career. It was the drug use that messed everything up.
What are you talking about? He starred in a number of films in the 90's and likely would have been the equivalent to like a Paul Rudd if he didn't scuttle his own career with pills and booze.
He played Benny in Fallout New Vegas.
He probably would have been more successful had he not been in the throes of addiction. It's sad but it's true
@@rohielshah1779 Drugs and booze and benny? Sounds like a winning career
If Ross moved to Paris for Rachel, the friends’ ending works.
I don’t think they needed to move, Rachel was going to Paris more to change her life after she felt she was stuck, rather than actually wanting to live in Paris (she didn’t even know French). She can find a new job in New York she could feel is challenging. Ross has Ben, their family (including now Monica and Chandler’s twins who are cousins to Ross’s kids) live in US.
Another big, big problem with Joey was its OBLIVIOUSNESS - it's set on the same UNIVERSE as Friends is, but it's not consistent with it. Joey absolutely knows how to play poker from Season 1, Ep. 18, of Friends ("The One With All The Poker"). The actor Adam Goldberg, who plays Jimmy, Michael's Father, plays ANOTHER CHARACTER in Friends - Eddie Manoick, Chandler's crazy roommate in Season 2, Eps. 17-19, of Friends. These are some examples of how the Joey series broke our investment and suspension of disbelief, as it became clear it was passionless to viewers.
Yes, also Joey's agent also played a character in Friends, Monica and Phoebe's obnoxious ''friend''.
I'm happy to find someone that liked JOEY even a little😂
If there was a motivation material to keep watching this, at the very minimum I would've wanted every episode to have a small scene in the avant, with Joey hanging up the phone from someone in FRIENDS saying like "OK, talk to you later Chandler! And Monica shouting mom-things back there!"
Just to give us an idea they're all doing good.
I’d love to see you cover the Friends reunion special! James Corden jumping on Matthew Perry with the “and who doesn’t call?” question when he has historically struggled with depression never sat right with me and I’d love to see you dissect the special since you dissect friends stuff so well!
Episodes on the other hand is genius. I feel Pucks is a nod to the failure that was Joey.
"Dinosaur puppet show" and I immediately think of Mrs. Doubtfire...
Frasier was successful because he was a side character, and there was still so much of his personality left unexplored. If you want to create a spin-off from Friends, you can't really go with any of the main characters.
Totally agree that a followup to friends would have to have a format change to succeed
The Comeback is not a spinoff of Friends, Liza Kudrow does not play Phebe, but an actress who used to be one of the stars of a comedy that lasted many season and now is filming a reality TV show about her being part of a new show in which she is not a main character. It is one of the most amazing shows ever, as she never gets to be in the right spot: she wants to be the star she once was and at the same time she struggels to be "real" but never wants to show reality. Liza is just amazing.
Please make more long-form sitcom/TV analysis vids like this! I've rewatched this and your Friends vid like 10 times each
Still one of the funniest shows I've seen. Only knew about it in 2022. Love and respect from zambia 🇿🇲 ❤️
Matt Le Blanc was absolutely fantastic as ...well... Matt Le Blanc in the adult comedy "Episodes"
I believe the reason Joey failed is it tried too hard to separate itself from Friends. They even have the dude that played Chandler's former roommate on an episode but playing a different character. They had David schwimmer direct an episode but not be on camera as Ross. I think how I met your father is doing the spin-off thing right because they're actually having some old characters come back.
Too bad the HIMYM spin-off is the dullest thing ever
@@666Clayman82 well opinions are like buttholes everyone's got one
Bob Odenkirk stared in a fantastic show that's a good spin off and a good prequel, Better Call Saul. What makes Better Call Saul a good comic relief spin off and a good prequel is that it does a fantastic job at characterizing Saul Goodman and other Breaking Bad characters along with new characters. Bob Odenkirk would have been known for 2 fantastic con roles if he didn't turn down voicing Stan Pines.
We discover a lot about the characters that we didn't know in BrBa too
I do know that Season 2 of Joey is one of the most valuable DVD sets of any show ever released, so at least there's that
I honestly loved the spin off versions you created with other characters
There's a few people in joey that were also in friends so couldn't stop thinking of them as their previous character
Joeys character is the most one dimensional to me. “Sex and pizza” is all he talks about. All of the others are far more multi layered
The lack of focus on an actor’s acting career also brings to mind Penny from Big Bang Theory. She’s an aspiring actress looking for her big break but her attempts at this, when the plot does focus on them, are played for laughs such as losing out on being a dead hooker in CSI or being cast in a very cheesy B move where her character is turned into an ape (although that does delve a bit into her being invited to a convention because of the role). Eventually she transitions into another career because acting hasn’t worked out for her.
I always felt that Joey while not a terrible series, was perhaps a victim of not being as strong as what Friends was.
I just recently found out about this and I’m a die hard Friends fan. Made me chuckle a few times
Friends was phenomenally popular in Britain, where it aired on terrestial channel channel four. When Joey began, it's rival channel five paid a huge sum to get the rights to it. But it didn't get the ratings they wanted. In the end reruns of Friends on four were getting better ratings than new episodes of Joey on five.
I always imagined that at the end of Joey Joey moved back to New York to live in the apartment above Chandler and Monica’s garage, helped Chandler & Monica raise Jack & Erica & he gets a job as a theater teacher since he has so much trouble finding acting work. I enjoyed your spin off ideas for shows about Phoebe and Chandler. I’d like to add some further commentary for idea for Chandler. I’d liked to have seen what kind of relationship Chandler had with his father and if Monica made amends with her mother for how shifty she treated her.
joey started developing when he gained feelings for rachel and I think they should've been together, if only to develop joey
It sounds like Episodes is the show that Joey should've been.
i think the Joey spin-off was a good demonstration why the original show didn't have as many Joey centric story arcs compared to the other characters. Him carrying most of the show just doesn't work too well
Joey and Chandler are like salt and pepper, completely different but always together,... one, without the other, isn't the same.
I liked Ross. He was really sweet to his friends as needed getting phoebe a bike and just doing little things for his friends even Joey and for Rachel being there for her dad I don’t know why everyone didn’t like him
This is one of my favourite tv-shows ever.
Funny thing is that 2 friends spinoffs were pitched before joey and they only didnt take off because those actors wanted to do other things
Ironically, I'm one of the few who never saw an episode of Friends and saw Joey first. I didn't seek it out but I just happened to catch it when I was surfing channels. I was about to change the channel until I saw Drea de Matteo in the cast. As a Sopranos fan the show suddenly caught my interest. Without the Friends baggage I was able to watch the show with a clean slate and judge it on it's own merits (or lack thereof) Overall I thought it had some good moments but it was just an average sit com.
I didn't mind the Joey spinoff but I had also forgotten it existed. I've always thought it was weird that Phoebe would successfully transition into a middle class mainstream suburban parent. Maybe a show about Phoebe trying to be one thing and eventually finding her next group of friends from the equally quirky outliers in a community would work better.
That 7 days at the end scared the shit outta me
What i found is if you pretend that Episodes is a follow up to Joey (or even Friends) it kinda fits quite well.
Its now on my list of topics for the future :)
Seeing clips from this, it just seems insane to me that this began *after* Arrested Development.
That HBO show Episodes was what the show Joey should have been. It was Matt LeBlanc being ironic and still playing Joey.😅😅😂
Then they basically did that Hollywood takedown with Episodes, even had Matt LeBlanc.
The best friends spin off that wasn't even a friends spin off was Episodes
Where Matt Leblanc stars as a version of Himself but you can tell he's playing Joey
Holy…. That Bojack Horseman comparison is so mind blowing.
Yeah I kinda rendered myself speechless when I realised that
@@Stubagful love that for you stu
I remember being excited in 2004, as Joey was the least well-developed Friends member (he turned from 'womaniser but with a heart of gold', to Mr. Bean) and the hope was they could do for Joey what Frasier did for well, Frasier. What we got was desperation and push-up bras.
Enjoyed the vid! Esp. your pitches for other spin-offs, so it's constructive criticism, offering solutions and ideas. Good job!
ah, but without "Joey", would we have the American "Episodes"?
I like your three Friends spinoff ideas, I think a reunion could maybe help advance story archs in the show, and actually mean something besides just nostalgic pandering.
I've never even watched friends nevermind Joey but I always enjoy your dissection of media
I honestly think they thought they could replicate other sitcoms spin-offs such as the Mary Tyler Moore and the Rhonda spinoff but the problem is that having 5 main protagonist in friends makes it difficult to actually do it
That pitch for a Phoebe spin off sounds just mom starring Anna Faris.
I loved the intro of this 😂 pretty much Matt LeBlanc in “More Joey!”
I think a good idea for a spinoff now would be that Dina (Joeys pregnant sister that Rachel talked with, and Dina concinced joey that it was the right decision to keep her baby) and her husband (the band guy) would go through some sort of financial crisis, or even death of her husband or both dina and her husband. Dina leaves her son in joeys care, and joey is stuck having to forcefully settle down and learn to be a dad to a younger kid/teen. He can also be trying to navigate aging in his acting career, and the hook could be anything from "will he get another big break" to "will he make it through his first year of parenting his nephew without totally screwing him up?" etc.
I didn't watch the show but I enjoyed watching your video on it.
I personally love the show. Theyre SO easy watching. Theyre light hearted, fun little episodes. No where near the level of Friends but I think its so underrated. I personally really like Joey and Alex's relationship. Jimmy is a hilarious character. It is very similar to season 9-10 of friends. Its a shame season 2 is so hard to get. I think it actually ties up really nicely.
find the spinoff fun, hilarious and I would have liked it to continue. I love Joey from Rome, Italy
Damn you for that ending.
Now I really wanna see that Phoebe spin off.
Matt never caught a real break after friends 😥
I was never a big fan of Friends so this comes from an outsider:
The only way I can see this character handling a spinoff would be to have him be a guy that used to be on a wildly popular show trying to figure out what to do next. People would stop him on the street to repeat catchphrases of the old show to him, casting directors would keep trying to shove him into the same old role and so on. The show would be about Joey trying to navigate establishing a persona outside his old show while also trying to deal with the nostalgia for that era of his life. It woudl be highlh serialized and focus as much on the pathos of the situation as the comedy.
Yes, I just described a form of Bojack Horseman - which is another show I have seen but didn't totally connect with. But if I were handed this character and told to make a show... this is what I'd do since it'd be really hard to just move that character into a different show.
I saw the first season and really liked it.
I happen to own the dvd copies of Joey 2. I think I rented them from Netflix years ago and then ripped them to my hd. I can't remember if i finished watching them or not, they were just that uninteresting.
But, Matt LeBlanc did get it right with his 2011-2017 show about the behind the scenes ridiculousness of the industry, with his show on Showtime, Episodes. Love that show.
I was working and in school during this period of my life. I missed the last few seasons of Friend which was a show I enjoyed. I never watched Joey for the same reason.
Yes. I have my work deadline in 7 days. Quit reminding me!
Maybe Joey could have worked if it was Joey and another Friend moving to LA. Phoebe and Joey for example. That way he could still play off one of the Friends while still being in the spotlight. More importantly you could have Joey struggling to adapt to a straight man role as he gets older while Phoebe stays as somewhat aloof.
rip matthew perry
I remember bingeing Joey and I'm 95% sure it included Season 2 of Joey, and yet I recall... very little of it.
All I do remember is I was playing Stalker Clear Sky and then Call of Pripyat at the time~
I always felt like they should've done a spinoff with Monica and Chandler raising their family with Janice next door and Anna Farris coming in and out. I think that's more of a captivating sitcom with a variety of stories and dynamics there. It also seemed logically the better show concept to transition to. I personally considered Joey one of my least favorite characters, because I could only handle buffoonery for so long. When you get a full episode of it, then that's probably why so many felt turned off from it as well.
Thank you for the insightful analysis 😊 Do one on Frasier and why it works as Cheers spin-off. And why Young Sheldon works as a spin off of Big Bang Theory
My family actually owns DVD copies of Joey and watches it on occasion
After the friends marathon, to complete the series lol. Since phoebe was my favorite character I think I would've preferred the phoebe spinoff but I realize that would've involved getting Paul rudd to agree to be on for at least a season or two
If you want a good book that comments on the toxic Hollywood industry about a celerity that lived a tragic BoJack Horseman life, I recommend Jennette Mccurdy memoir I'm Glad My Mom Died.
pheobe could've been in a how i met your mother style in terms of a prequel but then woven in with scenes from the present, like in therapy or talking to her kids.