𝗙𝗜𝗡𝗔𝗟𝗟𝗬 Dragon Ball Super Explains These NEW MULTIPLIERS...
Вставка
- Опубліковано 9 тра 2024
- Since the introduction of Super Saiyan God in "Battle of Gods," followed by Super Saiyan Blue and other forms in "Dragon Ball Super," one noticeable absence has been the lack of clear multipliers. Multipliers have traditionally served as a definitive way to scale the strength of a transformation and compare it to an opponent's power level. While "Dragon Ball Super" has introduced numerous forms, understanding how much stronger Goku and Vegeta become with each transformation isn't as straightforward as it once was.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Looking for insightful discussion? Or to argue longer with someone in the comment section 😂 Look no further:
𝗗𝗥𝗔𝗚𝗢𝗡 𝗕𝗔𝗟𝗟 𝗛𝗤
/ discord
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Like Videos Like This One? Check These Out:
𝗗𝗥𝗔𝗚𝗢𝗡 𝗕𝗔𝗟𝗟 𝗘𝗫𝗣𝗟𝗔𝗡𝗔𝗧𝗜𝗢𝗡𝗦
• Playlist
𝗪𝗵𝗮𝘁 𝗜𝗳…
• What If…
𝗠𝗔𝗝𝗜𝗡 𝗕𝗜𝗥𝗗 𝗧𝗔𝗞𝗘𝗦
• Playlist
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Want to see more of MajinBird? You can follow me here:
𝗜𝗡𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗚𝗥𝗔𝗠
Hey, It's Me MajinBird!
/ majinbird
𝗫
You a twitter bird?
/ majinbird_
𝗣𝗔𝗧𝗥𝗘𝗢𝗡
Want to see the next What If Episode?
bit.ly/3RH718U
𝗛𝗢𝗪 𝗧𝗢 𝗖𝗢𝗡𝗧𝗔𝗖𝗧 𝗠𝗝𝗕
For Business Inquires Contact Me Here
se.inquires@gmail.com
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
#dragonballsuper
to save everyones time power scaling is fucked in super
the only right answer
it's literally irrelevant as soon as toriyama dropped the scouter in Z lmao
Powerscaling never made sense to begin with
@@kinzdarell5447fr
@@kinzdarell5447just like he said, “Power levels were introduced just to show pointless they were"
I’m so fried rn and I swear bros calculations had me stressin like I was gonna be tested on it😭
that's hilarious
😂
I feel that so hard right now 😂
All we know is, new form big power
The more Power Vegeta and Goku gain, the stronger Vegito gets. He is their power combined each time they decide to fuse. He doesn't just stay at his starting point. When Vegeta and Goku fused for a second time, they created a stronger vegito and thats because both Goku and Vegeta became stronger. Its a smaller boost than their TRANSFORMATIONS sure, but vegito is stronger than their base by 30 time which is a big deal. That means Vegito's SSJ1 Is going to be astronamically stronger than theirs, He is 30 times stronger than them with their form mulitpiers and techniques. Keep in mind Vegito is already stronger than his fusee's in base by 30 TIMES. If their PL in base was 50 mil, Their PL in fusion base is now 1,500,000,000. Thats a BILLION hundred million difference.
Base vegito was stronger that goku ssj3 and vegeta ssj2 combined
I was thinking the same thing. When Vegeta showed SSJB in the RoF Arc, Goku acknowledged how Vegeta reached the same level of power he did without the ritual so it would make a lot more sense for SSJG's multiplier to remain the same rather than assuming Ritual SSJG>Current SSJG
There is also no implication on Goku not being able to tap into the form after fighting Beerus, as a matter of fact both Krillin and Goku himself refer to him as a Super Saiyan God from that point onwards right after the last episode of Goku Vs Beerus, so if anything its implied Goku can still tap into the form after the ritual, so changing the multiplier would make no sense
Everything you said was correct but one. There is no official number for how much the fusion boosts. Mainly because it varies. We know that for a balanced fusion is around tens of times, but there is no concrete reason to say specifically 30
Where are you pulling 30 from lmao it was stated before that fusions are the multiplication of the 2 fusees powers
Also in the video he ignored the fact that base vegito (before turning blue) had base god ki meaning he already had a powerboost. Therefore fusion might have actually stayed at the same multiplier.
Fusion power actualizes, so the fusion he mentions is obviously pre-godly ki
Stay in school kids.
i'm gonna drop out thanks to this comment
@@valeriopasqualini6679 💀
@@inferstrike3544dropped out for yt
Why
@@valeriopasqualini6679 💀
Yeah id say that the initial ritual was definitely above Fusion based off of Goku saying fusion wouldn't be enough and when they gave all their power to Goku for the first try of the ritual, Gohan said that Goku was the strongest fighter in history (already placing him beyond SSJ2 Vegito)
It's really difficult if not impossible to gauge SSGs multiplier in the Tournament of Power but its definitely far below fusion at that point because fusion is still seen as superior when Kefla is too much for God Goku and pushes him to SSB and even UI omen...
Actually it’s just because vegito wouldn’t have god ki
@@Bluewolf22222 that has nothing to do with it... God ki doesn't even matter, Jiren didn't have God ki... Granola and Gas didn't have God ki.. Broly doesn't have God ki... Beast Gohan doesn't have God ki... Black Freeza doesn't have God ki...
God ki doesn't matter.
@@reptilian_geneticist what I meant is that vegito didn’t have ssg
@@Bluewolf22222 yeah and it doesn't matter because I listed a bunch of other characters that don't have God ki but they're all far stronger than SSG Goku from Battle of Gods... what don't you understand about that? God ki doesn't matter....
Or Goku was just wrong he has been MILLIONS of times
Dope vid MajinBird!!!
Great video honestly ❤
Glad you enjoyed
They chose to fuse against zamasu because SSG is weaker than SSB and they were losing WITH blue. And fusion works by having a multiplier in their base forms, then they can transform on top of that. So even if the multiplier for fusion and SSG is the exact same, you can still transform on top of it as a fusion. While being unfused and in SSG, you can’t put SSG on top of SSG if you’re just in it already.
Exactly dawg idk what he's saying
The truth is that they did it for fanservice. Vegetto wasnt actually in toriyama's original script, it was a suggestion from Toyotaro to satisfy the expectatives of the fans.
That doesnt mean you are wrong, you are 100% right in your scaling.
Its just that the actual reason is that they just wanted to put some extra spices on the goku black arc
In the manga Perfected SSB Goku is equal to fused zamasu
"Test won't be that hard"
The test:
I have one thing. I adopted this thinking from something Gogeta said in the movie. Fusion power is the max power of both users (including forms) added and multiplied by a unknown number. So the fusion multiplier is all ways going to be higher than any transformation that goku or vegeta has.
The reason fusion is more useful later on isn't because the god form gets less useful, but because the fusions multiplyer is literally multiplying the power levels of the two using it.
If we assume for simplicity that Goku and Vegeta are the same power level, Vegito would be Goku squared.
After they achieve God ki however their power levels went up billions of times over, so squaring that power for the fusion multiplyer would make it far greater
Clickbait, theres mo multipliers in this video except standard super saiyan multipliers and kaiyoken.
Even the super saiyan transformations don't have canon multipliers. The multipliers in daizenshuu are never referenced in the anime, or manga.
Literally nobody could make an accurate multiplier except the writers themselves.
@@terrence9772 well i think toriyama did say once that super saiyan would be about a 10x multiplier, which makes absolutely no sense considering it dominated frieza much harder than kaiokenx20
@@PxIarix He said 10 times from what Goku previously achieved, so I assume that's ten times from kaioken x20 making that a 200 times multiplier which is ridiculous. I don't think super saiyan is a stagnant multiplier and it probably decreases the stronger the saiyan gets.
@@terrence9772it has been stated that super saiyan is 50x
I had a c average in math class in high school but I appreciate that you showed your calculations to explain your answer
I say ssjgod was a permanent boost on a temporary boost and that is why it looked so strong but once that depleted he went back to a similar level to Vegeta that was doing basic training and chores for whis
Alternate title: "if your not a deity level villain you get scrambled like an egg in the hot sun"
2:10 fusion is not a fixed multiplier, it is just base of the fusion>strongest forms of the fusees although Potara gives also the rival boost, so ssg is not weaker post ritual, rather it can be the opposite, also ssb is more than 50 x ssg in the anime as base Kefla was bullying ssg Goku but his Blue form was a match for ssj Kefla despite Kefla had her own version of ssj which is similar to Kale's, Kale's legendary form is higher than an ssb multiplier in the anime
Ok I might be grasping here, but I assume the reason why SSG with the ritual is stronger is because 5 saiyans by effect were donating power. Pan not really included, but I think the ritual added to goku's base tremendously before he transformed.
No 🤣
Its not, as stated and explained by whis, the 5 saiyans dont have to give goku their energy, they have to join their spirits, souls of 6 righgeous saiyans to summon the soul of yamoshi, who unleashes god power in the sixth saiyan
Ritual SSG is not stronger than ordinary SSG, its just that beerus's power has been obvioulsy retconned
I don't understand the calculation at times:
At 3:58, why did you divide by 400²?
I get that [1 to 9%] / 400 = Goku's Base range relative to Beerus because of the x400 SSJ3 multiplier, but where does the SECOND division by 400 come from? And how does dividing Goku's Base range by 400 represent Beerus' [11 to 69%] (as stated at 4:05)?
(Also, it's [1 to 9%] / 400², not ([1 to 9%] / 400)², but you corrected that by the final calculation anyway)
At 4:18, why did you calculate 80% of Beerus' [11% to 69%]? The [11% to 69%] already ARE 80%!
(The 4/5 at 4:15 magically turned into 5/4 at 4:32 🤭. Fortunately, it is only an editing/recording error)
4:45 The 80% lower bound visually displayed is wrong according to your final calculation. You do SAY the correct number, but 13 sounds close enough to 30 that I had to check, minor nitpick.
What I did using your provided data is take the range for 80% God Goku: [11 to 69%], divide the bounds by 80 for 1% of God, then multiplied them again by 100 to get the full range for 100% God Goku (= 13.75 to 86.25% of Beerus, you can check by multiplying either limit by 0.8 to get the original 80% God range back).
Then I divided the bounds for SSJ3 Goku by 400 to get the range for Base Goku (= 0.0025 to 0.0225% of Beerus).
Then I divided the LOWER bound of 100% God by the HIGHER bound of Base and vice verca to get the WIDEST possible range.
So I get a max range for God's multiplier of x5,500 to x34,500. So far for the calculation itself. We were SUPER generous with the initial %-ranges. You could approximate further with the domination multipliers Saiyan Scholar likes to use.
I also wanted to mention Saiyan Scholar's interpretation of how Potara Fusion works to explain how Fusion in the Zamasu Arc could've been considered superior to plainly using God or Blue individually. He suggested that the Potara combine the PEAK power of both parties, then multiplies that by tens of times for Vegito's base. But no matter how I twist and turn it, it's way too much.
Even if we just used SSJ3 Goku ALONE for Vegito's Base before the God Ritual, then put Vegito's SSJ3 on top, we would get a x160,000 boost!
Makes me think back to an old video I saw suggesting that the author suggested %-scale for God Goku, Beerus and Whis is not linear, but exponential! It COULD fix that, botched together as it may be...
I respect the amount of time you put into this comment
@@elanelpidang3861
Thank you. I did indeed put time into this comment. Usually, I just let stuff like this wash over me and don't think twice about it, but this time I was feeling like giving a crap and paying attention for a change for some reason. Must've been the friday high.
(I even drew a fucking diagram to help myself visualize :3)
None of that shit makes any sense... that's why we use the statements from Goku and Gohan that directly places the God ritual above Fusion.... and then we can clearly see that the God multiplier is far lower than fusion later on in the TOP when Goku faces Kefla and goes from SS3 to God, to Blue and then Ui omen and yet Kefla is still stronger...
@@nothinghere8434I also appreciate your comment you are a true fan 😎
@@reptilian_geneticistor maybe you're Terrible at math so shut your mouth and sit back and enjoy the ride
I was today old learning about the term Royal Blue, never have heard of that in the fandom only the other name Super Saiyan ‘Blue Evolution’
Super saiyan blue evolution is the official name, referenced in official merch, games and the official page of the series. "Royal blue" and other variations are fan made
No not just by getting damage but by also getting pumped up in battle makes him get stronger
7:55
Bro magenta and dr hedo with carmine didn’t even know that he was trunks this guy!
Yo thanks video with loads of math I got a math exam tmr
Glad I could help
What it be possible for a form of SSJ4 Blue to exist?
It took me 15 minutes to think about this just to say it will take a good 24 hours to explain to you how both forms work and how complicated it would be XD
Y'all know that Beerus been caping about the percentage of power he used against the saiyans.
Wait but didn’t vegeta say that hitting pressure points doesnt determined someone’s strength in db super hero, also stating that in terms of strength goku and vegeta surpasses jiren?
There is a problem in general with the sayain race, the easier the can find a multiplier the less they train. Which is why super sayain was so rare. They easily relied on great ape form and hardly trained. Nowadays sayain hybrids tap into super sayain as if nothing and hardly decide to train because of 50x multiplier but without training a battle power of 10 x 50 is nothing except on earth. So now super sayain is relied on and beast (gohan's form)will become the sayain legend and no one will soon care about Super Saiyan and more generations will pass until beast becomes an easy form and wimps evolve like goku jr.
Good bye sayain race you are weak like most humans😢
Someone came up with trunks power in ssj rage. Said he was utilizing buffimg himself with the genki dama energy which would be awesome and very different if he keeps uaing that energy and evolving it's uses
crazy how i can debunk this just simply saying that Beerus at 5% two TAPPED SSJ3FP Goku and then Beerus at 70% was almost at the same level of SSG Goku at 80%...and that confirms the previous theory that says SSG moltiplier is: X100.000. SSB was ststed as the SSJ version of the SSG so it's basically the two trasfiormations fused together so: X5.000.000.. SSBE and SSBKKX20 were already confirmed to be X20 the SSB.
Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego Multipliers is aprox 50-100 Times than SSB for the Scale of 102-103 Chapter.
In the magna, I don't think a regular SSB is 50x SSG, but I do think MSSB is. Regular SSB drains so much stamina, the user could only maintain full power for a few seconds.
MSSB however not only fixes the stamina issue, but it also adds an additional boots in power to the form as well. (SSB vegeta was strong enough to hurt SSR goku black by switching between forms, while MSSB goku was as strong as fused zamasu who was far stronger than black). So you could argue that MSSB is a more accurate 50× on top of SSG
Makes sense
I agree
SSB is a ×50 multiplier to SSG.
The problem is that the form drains so much energy that their powers in base decrease due to the lack of energy.
Its not that SSB < SSG × 50. This is NOT CORRECT
What happened is that Base Goku (before blue) >> Base goku (post blue)
Did u also forget the fact that saiyans get stronger as the battle goes on and goku maybe got a zenkai boost that fight or no????
@@gregkareem9824 the zenkai boots no longer works for goku and vegeta in the super manga since the black arc
Berus was lying that wasn’t even 10% so the calculations would be incorrect when using berus as a comparison
wrong,This is a misunderstanding among fans, firstly, in all official Dragon Ball media, whether games, daizenshu, kaizenshu and even GT's Perfect Files, which will also help with what I'm going to say about all of them when they refer to the God Goku being superior to vegito refers to vegito super sayajin 1 from the majin buu saga literally just vegito super saiyan 1, there is no super sayajin 3 using the possible super sayajin 3 of vegito and only super saiyan, and literally vegito in isolation from buu saga, that is, they only consider vegetto from buu saga in isolation in super saiyan 1, which was what was shown until that moment, and this is clear in one of the filler stories of the game dragon ball legends, which is a tournament of space-time on the first anniversary of the game where they have super saiyan vegito 1 talking to goku from the battle of the gods saga, where the 2 were about to fight and vegito says that goku's power was enough to come face to face with he, this is not super saiyan 1, and in the other part of this story there is a part where super saiyan vegito fights goku and vegeta from frieza's rebirth, and what does that mean?, that vegito considered in quotes etc is just super vegito Saiyan 1 in isolation, a possible Vegito Super Saiyan 3 is never mentioned, because the fusions are their own beings with their own consciousness and only the memories of the fused ones, which means that this possible Super Saiyan 3 of Vegito didn't even make sense until that point, because Goku and Vegeta only had memories of Vegito, they knew nothing about him in isolation or his total power level, which makes sense to say that Goku and Vegeta only had memories of Vegetto's power level of the super saiyan that was the only thing they saw of Vegito, and in the gt perfect files it says that Goku Super Saiyan 4 had the same power level or even a little higher than Vegito from the Buu saga, who is also only considered Vegito Super Saiyan and In the game Xenoverse 2 if you put Beerus against Goku Super Saiyan 4 there is an interaction between them that says that Goku GT had the same power level as the Goku he fought, note that this Beerus is Beerus from Battle of the Gods, that is, this god thing goku with 2 multipliers does not exist, and if we were to create a minimum multiplier for god goku it would be that he would be at least 10x stronger than goku super saiyan 3 I said minimally it could be higher, and if we take into account the count of game quotes and other media we can say that god has a multiplier between x4000 and x14000 or x4000 and x10000, and blue (in the manga) it is safe to say that he is 2 times stronger than the super saiyan god using his battle against Hitto in the manga, and in the anime is questionable and debatable but we can also say that he is 50x stronger than God (debatable and questionable), Super Saiyan Blue Evolution we can put it as 20x the common Super Saiyan Blue using the logic of the anime in the manga, which puts him superior to ui presage who was basically defeated in one fell swoop by jiren, we could say that his multiplier would be at least half the size of the blue evolution super saiyan, now, the legendary super saiyan basically no longer has his own multiplier that the legendary saiyan has his power constantly growing like an exponential evolution, in the anime we can say two things, either that Kale was too weak, or that she had placed a kind of multiplier on her form, as if she was using part of her power as a way of not losing control and start exponential growth, more or less as we saw with the manga beast, and the MUI multiplier is precisely in the region of x273,000 the super saiyan blue multiplier, and x5460000000 the base form (taking into account that the multiplier of blue is 2x the god's multiplier, so if we take into account the god's maximum multiplier which is around 10,000 or in the region of 10,000 at least since many of the things in the film were retconned, the blue's multiplier would be x20,000 base form what gives this mui multiplier on the basis of x5460000000) that is (273,000 x super saiyan blue) taking as an argument the scanning of the pixel mathematics of the genki dama from the moro saga, the power of the awakened piccolo is debatable, but we can say that he is at the level of super saiyan blue if we take into account that in the manga goku said that piccolo's ki was almost as big as gohan's and he had no difficulty finding it, orange piccolo is debatable but we can say that he It is at the level of Goku Ultra Instinct Omen or Vegeta's Blue Evolution, and Beast Gohan we can say that his multiplier would be between x200,000 in relation to the base form up to x5460000000 or less than the multiplier of the mui
Damn bro...
Bro I’m not reading all that
Goku in battle of gods stated that "He had never imagined such power could even exist"
I think he can imagine that vegetto's power exists, he puts SSG far above anything that had ever appeared before, so much above that could not even be fathomable.
SSG Goku >> SS3 Vegetto
By the statement from the manga that i just citated
@@Nmoment-uv6jc brother every time vegetto from the buu saga is mentioned, he is only used and considered vegetto ssj1 because he never used ssj3, both in the perfect files and in the anime and manga as well as in games, there never was any super sayajin 3 vegetto, that never existed, so much so that in perfect files when they mention that goku from the fight against baby was stronger than vegetto from the buu saga they consider what vegito showed that was just the super sayajin, it's like you saying that goku MUI is stronger than vegetto from the zamasu saga and consider a possible vegetto blue kaioken, there is no such thing, it is only considered the power that the fusion showed, which was blue
second point, goku does not know vegetto's power, he only has memories of what vegetto did, vegetto is a being completely apart from goku and vegeta is another being with a different mentality and different personality, they do not control vegito, Vegetto is as if he were their son in which they shared memories, Vegetto Super Saiyan 3 does not exist, this is all a lack of interpretation by the community and is easily debunkable
@@Pudi-tc7pl ???
Goku does not know vegetto's power? Goku was part of vegetto, if the fusion is succesful both fusers will remember everything that happened during fusion.
Goku PERFECTLY knows vegetto's power. This is exemplified in the goku black arc (manga) when vegeta realized AFTER fusion that goku could be able to perfect blue. He realized that because they fused. The fusers know what is going on in fusion because they are fusion, they become one
Goku said that he "never imagined such power could exist". He also knows of powerful SS vegetto is. I sincerery doubt that a ×8 difference in power and the knowledge of training for SS3 would make goku say that the god power was beyond imagination
And that the fact that anime goku directly says that fusion wouldnt be enough while he though he could stand a chance in god
The only problem with what your saying is u didn’t take in account that the god form was absorbed in to gokus base they said that in the movie so when they fused the fusion would be way more powerful because the base power of both sayins fused would be significantly higher than when they fused to fight boo
It wasnt. In the manga it never happened and in the anime it was retconned as to be more symilar to the manga. We see both goku and vegeta having go use SSG in the ToP an Broly movie to reach that power
to explain why they fused against zamasu, fusion is always best of a and best of b, meaning their output at blue merged, whether thats adding them together or multiplying them together, a god form amp isnt as strong as a fusion amp unless the fusees arent as strong as you are in base, vegito wouldnt have been strong enough because goku nor vegeta were strong enough to make beerus use anything more than a single hand to beat him, god form made him fight near 70 percent, meaning that the amp of god form (when gokus full power was only SSJ3 and vegetas full power was SSJ2)meaning that a base form vegito was only gonna be as strong as those two merged, on top of the multiplier from SSJ# being a 400 times boost, meaning that vegito lets say is around a 1000 times boost to goku and vegetas base form on top of the 400 times boost, SSJ3 is around a 40,000 increase to goku and vegeta, meaning that goku felt like a 40,00 thousand boost against not even a 10 percent beerus wouldnt have been enough, then a god ritual puts on a multiplier of several millions to dozens of millions, still not being enough to stop him, to build upon this further, the fusion multiplier gets stronger when the two parts are stronger, meaning a fusion of current goku and vegeta would be a combined strength of UI and UE as its base power level, and then whatever multiplier is stacked on top of that from further transformations, hence why kefla in base out paced god goku, because base kale and caulifla were close to goku in strength(a weakened goku)so the god multiplier couldnt make up for the difference in overwhelming power, to further my point, due to the canonicity of superhero to the DBS manga we can assume that since gohan and piccolo are now equal to goku and vegeta at full power output, a fusion between goku and vegeta would be multiverse shaking, and we can infer this by looking at the power outputs of gohan and piccolo put out which was so strong it immediately overwhelmed the gammas(who were compariable to blue goku and vegete during the moro arc)as we can assume that goku and vegeta got even stronger since their altercation with black frieza but we dont know by how much, and with gohan putting MUI goku on the back foot in recent chapters and even landing blows on him we can easily assume that beast gohan with a times ten to even times 50 multiplier is the minimum required power output of a fusion between goku and vegeta now, on top of their current power multipliers putting this fusion to a level that might rival black frieza or even beerus is purely hypothetical since we dont know how strong either of them really are, but what we do now is that former contenders for strongest mortals(aside from black frieza)would be blown away by this new fusion, but interms of regular characters, goku and vegeta lose out to beast, and realisticlaly the god multiplier isnt even that much compared to fusion, if the two parts of the fusions collective whole is strong enough that a character with a god multiplier isnt even in their tier of power
Multiplyers really stopped being relevant a while ago.
By now it’s more about narrative
People like to know the power jump
@@YardonCholy The jump is whatever the story needs it to be
@@milessaxton Yeah, and people still like to know the number
Ssjbe looks like grade 2 recoloured
Bro zamus was like super saiyan goku and black was like always powering up so black goku was slowly growing more then goku and vegeta so just black goku and zuasu would be close to vigeto blue.
Goku and Gohan had a fight in the manga and Goku was holding back but still was in mui and Gohan in beast, and Gohan grows in strength with absorbing the energy around him (not sure if that is legit but it’s the theory I’ve seen the most with the most proof)
Look up "sueishaa dragon ball super manga" in Google, check the first page and there you will be able to read the 3 latest chapters with official traduction for free
Because let me tell you in advance, that theory is wrong. They literally explained from where his power came in the manga
You forgot black freiza and legendary ss full power broly
😱I DID FORGET FRIEZA
@@MajinBird lol your good bro we all know black multipier is off the chain like a billion times base low balled or a zillion high ball😅😅
Power Awakened Piccolo is NOT on SSB Goku and Vegeta level. It’s stated very clearly in the movie that the power Shenron awakened in piccolo “wasn’t that much” but he threw in “a bit extra” which is the Orange form. And the Gammas were probably not made with UI in mind. The only point that they could have seen UI is against Moro but there’s no reason to think that they saw that fight. Even in the manga they never bring up Moro or UI in any way. You’re just assuming they saw it. And it was very clear that in his Power Awakened form, Piccolo was LOSING to Gamma 2. Which is how/why the Orange form triggered in the first place.
In my opinion, if fusion wasn't a combination of power and was just a fixed multiplier, SSG would just out-right scale above it. The only reason why fusion is so much better as an option though is that it takes the COMBINED FULL POWER of both of the people in the fusion, and then MULTIPLIES that power by a hundred times.
Here's an example, where SSG is their strongest form...
Goku (Base) = 10
Vegeta (Base) = 8
SSG = X225
Fusion = (A + B) * 100
Goku (SSG) = 2250
Vegeta (SSG) = 1800
Goku + Vegeta fusion > (2250 + 1800) * 10 = Vegito (Base) = 40,500
fusion is PLxPL and then other boosts like rival boosts
Gogeta spits on the gammas and piccolo same fine one shot
Unfortunately the BOG percentages were retconned so gg
Interesting.
I don't know why anyone gives Goku's ''Fusion's probably weaker than God'' quote any credibility when he literally goes to *shoot himself with his own kamehamehas to get strong enough to fight Beerus again in 5 minutes* 🤦 also Goku is not the narrator, he is a character which have stated many things wrong in the past and the future. Not to mention he definitely is referring to the Fusion Dance since there aren't any potaras anymore after the Buu Saga and he can only gauge the Dance Multiplier from Trunks and Goten not himself and Vegeta.
Also it has been stated many times Vegito could've killed Buuhan in his BASE form not only beat but also kill him through the regeneration...
@@ThunderWolfUEno it hasn’t 😂 where tf is the source for that for specifically base Vegito that just sounds like head cannon. Vegito doesn’t even fight in base form in the manga and base form Vegito fighting in anime is filler lol. Also please highlight examples of times Goku’s been wrong.
In terms of manga it would be:
Base form Vegito < Buuhan
Super Vegito > Buuhan
In the anime it would be different:
Base Vegito > or < Buuhan
Buuhan full power enraged > Base Vegito
Super Vegito > Buuhan full power enraged
BOG God ritual and SSJ God Goku >> hypothetical BOG Fusion to Vegito or Gogeta. Fusion power comes from the fusees and their strongest forms at the time we’re SSJ 3 Goku and SSJ 2 Vegeta, and God form and God Ki is clearly above that.
@@ThunderWolfUEAlso Fusion can imply either Potara or the Metamoran fusion, it doesn’t explicitly state which but when Goku was fighting a heavily suppressed Beerus he can tell that Fusion is not enough for a Beerus who was just toying with him. Goku and Vegeta don’t even do metamoran fusion in cannon until DBS Broly and BOG is cannon.
I swear the metamoran dance only happens in the movies (which are not canon to dbz) so why the hell would goku be talking about something that doesn’t happen?
2:05 this logic would make sense for fraudgeta, but goatgito is built different.
super vegito in the boo saga is potentially thousands of times stronger than ss3 (goku's highest multiplier at the time) if you're based and think base gotenks post training > fat boo.
current base vegito > ui goku 💯💯💯
The problem is beerus's power is not linear, so the 31% remaining power could be 3000000 times the 69% mark. There is no math created to use for power scaling in Super
Yeah how does beerus state he's using 10% of his power against a raging ssj2 vegeta but obliterate ssjb evolved vegeta post moro arc, im pretty sure he was being serious against vegeta in that scene, Especially when you take account blue full power vegeta in the manga took beerus off guard and triggered him, beerus's power does not make sense and change at will
You could be wrong or right. This was good tho
💪
There's no difference in multiplier of Super Saiyan God. They choose to become Vegito Blue bc their opponent is a fusion that has massive strength they can't overcome individually. What is that logic?
Actually fusion although it wouldn’t put them passed beerus is only worse than god because of god ki. It don’t matter how strong fusion is it’s god ki you need to fight beerus. Fusion probably does have a higher multiplier but it wouldn’t matter. God ki built different.
I admire the math you’ve done here, but here’s how I believe it would be.
1% of Beerus' power (without Hakai energy) > 100% of SSJ3 - Goku's power.
70% of Beerus' power (without Hakai energy) > 100% of SSJG - Goku's power.
70% / 100% = 0.7%.
100% of SSJ3 - Goku's power = 0.7% of Beerus' power.
This makes SSJG - Goku 100x stronger than SSJ3 - Goku was against Beerus.
To figure out SSJG's multiplier you'd need to multiply how many times stronger Super Saiyan God - Goku is to Super Saiyan 3 - Goku, to the multiplier of Super Saiyan 3.
400 x 100 = 40,000.
Super Saiyan God's Multiplier: 40,000 × Base.
Since Super Saiyan Blue is Super Saiyan + Super Saiyan God, you'll multiply Super Saiyan × Super Saiyan God.
Super Saiyan = 50 × Base.
Super Saiyan God = 40,000 × Base.
50 × 40,000 = 2,000,000.
Super Saiyan Blue's Multiplier: 2,000,000 × Base.
Since Blue Evolution has been shown to be as strong as Blue Kaioken x20, it will just be 20 times stronger than Blue’s multiplier
2,000,000 x 20 = 40,000,000.
This is just my input on what I believe it is, no hate on your math m8, it makes a lot of sense ngl
No kale and cauliefla were just suprise to see ssj3 like how goten and trunks were excited to see ssj3
No mention of Broly's Wrathful form?
thats just 10x
@@danielflame8311 I know it is, I just wanted it to be mentioned
Multipliers
Ssj g1:50x
Ssj g2:2x50(el manga legendario)
Ssj g3:10x ssj(could be 10x grade 2 but it isnt clear source also El manga legendario)
Ssjg4:(atleast 2x ssj g3)(later on in the series mathematically incalculable)
Ssj2: 2x the current grade of ssj (so 2xssj g4)(would scale to mathematically incalculable later on)
Ssj3:4xssj2(Infinite is the multi plier as stated by El manga legendario)
Ssj god:(outerversal increase)
Ssjb: ssj grade 4(so basically mathematically incalculable) × Super Saiyan god(outerversal or Super Dimensional in Statements)
Super Saiyan blue kaioken:depends on the 1 Multiplier,simce the power is Infinite it stacks it via set theory i e alef nol omega omega +1 e.t.c
Ui 2x asj b KAIOKEN initially later on much larger gap
Mui: Infinitely more powerful than ssj b kaioken
Yeah😊
was it not stated that that SSG(red) is faster while SSB is stronger.... that is why they kept switching between red and blue.
The Aprox multipliers:
SSJ=50X
SSJ2=100X
SSJ3=400X
SSG=17.6KX
SSJB=880KX
SSJBE=17.6MX
Btw this is my therory
I have a problem with the entire premise of the ritual transformation’s power. That being that the god form wasn’t even enough to beat Beerus anyways in the first place, not even nearly. So the reference to fusion not being able to do it either is meaningless.
It’s really annoying that everyone seems to the parrot this point too, but doesn’t really think about how it’s relevant at all first.
Think of it as, Goku ascending to a different level of strength. The ritual is stronger than fusion because it’s a opening to the realm of gods
So naturally the introduction of this would ascend Goku beyond previous power
I disagree the idea of god form being better than fusion for so many reasons, the main one being that would be extremely inconsistent. Vegito, Gogeta, and Kefla all seem superior to the god level boost in base.
Matter of fact, it wouldn’t even make sense to put blue above fusion.
@@scrumt9284 well then you would have to consider that the ritual version of the super Saiyan god form
Is NOT the same as the form on its own. I also say even in this video that the form on its own doesn’t have the strength of fusion
Though the ritual form is different in many ways then the one you can access on your own
Don’t think they base it just on Vegito being stronger than god against zamaxu . Which he 1000% is. More than he is plus he can then turn god on top
There is no such implication that the SSG from BOG arc has any different multiplier than the one used onwards. ROF indicates that Vegeta achieved SSG all on his own without the need for the ritual. It would be ridiculous to assurt that Vegeta somehow achived a weaker form when it is portrayed as something noteworthy within the narrative.
Further more the comparison between SSG and Vegito is faulty for several reasons.
1. Goku has no idea how strong Vegito is, since Vegito held back all the time against Buu. Thus, Goku wouldn't know how strong Vegito actually is due to not being able to sense his actual full power.
2. Kefla in The tournament of power displayed that the potara amp is greater than SSG.
SSJ2 Goku displayed dominance over SSJ2 Caulifla.
Goku turns SSG and Caulifla fuses
Base Kefla then dominates SSG Goku. Thus Potara > SSG.
The narrative that SSG is above potara is not even presented within the Manga, on the contrary, Base Vegito outperforms Weakened SSB Goku suggesting an even greater amp than the SSG form for potara.
Yet we still don't get official multipliers. In my head canon only the multipliers are in the thousands/tens of thousands. Also about that almost 70 % line I ask myself- Of what? Probably from the heavily suppressed power of Beerus when he fought against Goku. It is my honest belief that neither Goku or his Saiyan prince friend ever surpassed Beerus, and that Beerus is just a liar when talking about his own power/Whis talking about it. Therefore attempting to give both of them numbers is insane.
Can you continue the vegeta and goku Swap fights series But move on to the Manga and movies.
What about ssj4 multiplier?
I still think you might be wrong about the SSJG Multiplier
Base Vegito was = if not slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku
So thats roughly a 400x multiplier
a SSJ3 Vegito would be another 400x multiplier
or in other words 16,000x multiplier which is on roughly the same level you said SSJG Goku was in
at the time Goku said he didnt think fusion would be enough he hasnt even seen Beerus remotely try, so whatever he was thinking up is probably a nerfed version of Beerus
and if he didnt think this was enough but SSJG was clearly enough to bring alot more out of Beerus, then SSJG's multiplier has to be way higher
Also fusion's power is pretty inconsistent, but the on going and most supported theory is that the base form of the fusion is = if not stronger than the strongest transformation the users possess
which explains why in the Buu saga Vegito was = to SSJ3 if not slightly stronger
but in the Zamasu arc and even Gogeta in the Broly movie, they were doing stuff on a SSJB level in base
Kind of excluding Zamasu Arc though cause Vegito hopped straight into Blue, but he was still completely overpowering the fusion that was overpowering SSJB Goku and Vegeta
I don't think that bog takes place over a decade or even 4 years after the buu saga i believe it takes place only a few months afterwards due to ages and appearances and all that
So gohan is a father at 16
@@Nmoment-uv6jc He was 17 and plus a few months so he might have been 18
@@user-mr4ph9yf4p he finished college and got a job as an entomologist. He truly did it quickly
Not a bad theory but there a few problems, First off Fusion gets stronger with the users. Fusion is definitely not as powerful as Super saiyan blue, or else Gotenks would be smoking buu. It's pretty clear that fusion is always above the users max power as evidenced by Vegetto in base being stronger zamasu and gogeta throwing hands with broly in base form. Also using the percentage thing is not accurate at all, considering this was movie only and later completely retconed. We even see it directly, Goku in base was comparable his god form, so past this arc beerus would have been surpassed by goku but wasn't thus retconing this scale. Additionally Goku was confident that fusion won't have been enough at max power, so God goku>Vegito ssj3.
A more accurate way will be using the daizenshu, there base vegetto is stated to be beyond a ssj3. So base fusion in the buu arc was atleast 400 times the base of the user, then we multiply it 400 times ssj3. We get a super saiyan 3 vegetto at 160,000 times base. Ss God was stronger than this but we just assume it is atleast 160,000x base. After that just upscale. Furthermore, The super Saiyan god multiplier changing is just headcanon, it was never officially mentioned. That was just a fan theory because it felt weaker later on. Trustme on this, the multiplier for ss God remaining the same throughout works (i powerscaled the entire show), just the numbers get big, too big.
Oh almost forgot, Perfected blue in the manga is way stronger than regular blue, it's almost fusion level as shown against Zamasu. This would also make evolved blue in the manga stronger too, as for anime it's fine. No problems there
I like most of your comparisons BUT Initial Red can’t be as strong as later Red. Why?
Cause when Goku mastered Super saiyan, the form was a lot more powerful. Why would this not apply to him and Vegeta mastering Red and unlocking Blue?
Goku vs the U6 girls makes sense as far as Kefla goes. Goku was dead tired and that’s a fusion. Even with a stronger Red, being tired got him cooked till UI. Gohan had a lot more energy left and did a lot better. Why? Because Caulifla and Kale weren’t that strong. A fusion of them should NOT be as strong as Z Vegito and it isn’t. She’s basically equal to ss3 Gotenks from Z, prolly a little stronger. Buuhan would be her ceiling I think.
We do know that in the Black saga, when Goku and Trunks spar as ss2, Whis says Trunks has the slight edge. In the manga. That mean we still dealing with Z powers that late into Super. Goku even compares Trunks to Cell Games Gohan. Let that sink in…
Rambling at this point but I’m sure u get it. The UI boost just makes up a lot of ground for Goku being tired.
Red and Blue both get bodied by mortals with no god Ki. Fusion should cook.
I actually pretty much say the same thing in the video
Blue evolution is super saiyan god super saiyan 2 isn’t it?
beerus was using like 1 percent
Let me say something why would you not just train your base power because if you train yo base power the multiplayer will be greater
They do train their basepower but they also have to train to properly control their forms
I Always Had Super Saiyan God At a Simple 1 Million times, As Its Not TOO Crazy like the over 1 billion ive seen some other people say, While its Also not all that Weak.
Meanwhile ive had Super Saiyan 4 at 5,000, And then FP Super Saiyan 4 being 50,000.
Meanwhile Super Saiyan Blue Is 50,000,000, And then Blue Evolution And Blue Kaioken Times 20 being 1,000,000,000.
And Then Ultra Instinct Sign Since its clearly Above both Ascended versions of Blue, i decided itd be roughly 5-10,000,000,000
And then Mui is Just 2 times that For Simplicities Sake.
Also while listening to this Video, i kinda niticed the fact you DON'T Take into Account the Fact That The Characters base Forms can be higher than others(Especially notable when mentioning vegito from the Goku black arc, where his base form would be FAR Greater than A potental battle of Gods Vegito, As the Way fusions work is that their base Form is Person A's Power Level Times Person B's Power Level.
Though now that inthink about that...USING FUSION AS A BAR FOR GOD GOKU COULD MEAN THAT GOD WOULD HAVE TO BE AROUND WHATEVER VEGETA'S BASE FORM IS-
And seeing As most people have the Belief that Base Goku or Vegeta could beat NAMEK SAGA FRIEZA Means their power leveks would have to be FAR Beyond that mere 1 million i have super Saiyan gods Multipler at...and then this isn't including the gains they'd have in base between the buu saga and battle of gods...
So IF You Believe that Super Saiyan God is indeed beyond A Hypothetical Battle of Gods Vegito...then Oh boy, Super Saiyan god could be anywhere between 120,000,000 to being in the Billions-
2:07 and wouldn't it be because IDK that Vegeto can go ssj blue? Also fusion is stronger than the separate parts at the time of fusing if Goku and Vegeta fuse into Vegito his base form is stronger no matter what. If their max power is ssj 3 the fusion is stronger if the max power is ssj God the fusion is stronger if they fuse currently a ssj Vegito would dog walk Freeza.
Yall do realize that fusion takes the strongest of A + The Strongest of B 😑
And past events < new events meaning yes Base Vegito > SSG Goku since Goku's Strongest Form at that point is SSB 😑
Super saiyan god 20 thousand multi Suoer Saiyan blue 1 million Mastered Ultra Instinct 120 billion there you have it.
you do remember Fusion has the god forms now right? Fusion is stronger than base Goku, so Fusion in god forms would stronger than base anyone in god forms, doesn't mean two different god forms multipliers, Great math so not sure how you didn't come to that conclusion
just go by what whis states to beerus. about how the Z fighters stand to the gods . they are the height of a tree compared to the planet.. That statement alone tells me the writers want to do away with number scaling.. and i agree with it while you ramble on with numbers in the BG because nobody cares about this much math..... the visual Whis gives is much better Representation
Potara isn't a set multiplier. Vados confirms it's full power of person one plus full power of person 2 multiplied by 10s of time. Buu Saga Base Vegito is at the very least 20 times stronger than SSJ3 Goku + SSJ2 Vegeta and Base Vegito in the Goku Black Arc is at least 20 times stronger than SSGSS Goku + SSGSS Vegeta. "The new body and personality
born from the Potara fusion are more than the sum of their parts and their power increases tens of times." - Vados. The Stronger Goku and Vegeta get, the bigger the fusion multiplier gets.
When Did Vados say that?
@@danielepugliese4104 Episode 114 of Super.
@@phantomrogue7894 Anime and manga has different Canon, and different scaling.
In manga Kefla has the strenght of Kale and the abilities of Kaulifla, but that is described as an exception.
So Base Vegito in manga would be equals to Goku ssj blue perfect
@@danielepugliese4104 The thing is in the manga, Kale and Caulifla were both transformed when they fused which would mean less of a multiplier but you're right about the manga being different. That said, Fusions are consistently stronger than the full power of the respective parts that make them up. Base Gotenks > SSJ Goten and Trunks. Base Vegito > SSB Goku and Vegeta. Base Gogeta > SSB Goku and Vegeta. Vegito also gets the rival boost unlike Caulifla and Kale. The only thing that's certain in both anime and manga is base fusions > Full power of whoever fused.
Edit: Also Potara gets a rival boost making it exponentially stronger and I'm pretty sure base Vegito was way stronger than perfected blue but maybe I'm remembering things wrong.
Dude really thought there are 2 ssjg variants 💀.
Anyways x12k is over fusion?
While fusion is literally just a x b...
So if namek Goku fused with Vegeta it would be 3 000 000 x 2 500 000.
So already over ssjg many times if it really was 12k 😑
I disagree with the somethings. For example the fusion thing isn't relative in the context you're using it. As it take the current power of each and multipies it. So it's not something you can compare to any of the current forms and say " fusion is weaker than". However certain states of fusion could be viewed as points of comparison depending on the saga in question.
The other thing is God ki, God ki is like kioken or ultra instinct. In that it's more of a technique than a form. What I mean is that anyone can learn them. Them being Ultra ego, God ki, ultra instinct, kioken and the like. However super saiyan is a genetic trait exclusive to the saiyan genetics and/race.
With that being said, each sage is stronger than the last as for vegeta and goku they both use their super saiyan forms while utilizing their God ki and/or God techniques.
This is seen when goku used ultra instinct against jiren and went super saiyan God(white hair) and then went super ssgss while utilizing ultra instinct. It's also hinted that he did a "potential" unleash with his ultra instinct similar to Gohan.
Vegeta goes ssgss2 against toppo. Shown by sparks instead of just electricity. Then for ultra ego vegta achvied super saiyan 3 with the most noticeable saiyan features of losing his eyebrows while also having the hedgehog like hair growth. We have to remember that vegeta gain body, ki and spirit control on yadrat and can compress and control his forms better which could explain why his hair is not as long with the great ape influence as well as why he could last so long witch stacks of different ki. But just like ssj3 vegeta seems to have a timer on the form. Another thing to note is that ultra ego is a 1:1 of Toryiama's orginal ssj3 concept art with out thr tail...yet.
My final point being is that all of these forms and techniques add multipliers intop for multipliers from the base of the saiyan genetics.
Goku struggles with it as he states his sayian form over takes the angels techniques and he has to find balance with it, where it seems like vegeta is struggling with his newly acquired ssj3 and GOD ki merging/stacking.
Another point is about who's form is stronger. It's all about the base forms and toriyama already explained this multiple times. These are just multipliers, so ssj can be stronger than ssj3 if the user of ssj has a higher based power. Hell we see this with Gohan all the time while not using ssj or any form at all to handle buu. He simply uses his full power without physical genetic change, until beast.
So the kefla and broly vs ssg or ssgss ir relevant as the power of the ape form is something to master in the human body just like God ki or kioken and ect. The more mastery of the saiyan cells the more of that power one can access prior to changing more into a great ape slowly via super saiyan now that the tail is gone.
Piccolo did merge with Kami. The god of earth🤔🤔🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
Gultimate gohan fr?
Fun fact, Goku was using a base form god state (basically black ssg) when facing Frieza, so it would be greater then a 50x multiplier and not SSGSS's multiplier
Thats just his base form
@@danielflame8311 Nope
That's not black ssg your talking about what it's called saiyan beyond God.
@@gregkareem9824 Thank you, I couldn't remember the name when making this
Incomplete ssjgod is better then even ssj3 vegeto so 10x stronger then ssj3 vegeto
The same vegeto who's multiplier is the same as ssj4 goku it only said ssj4 goku not full power ssj4 goku so 4000 x 400 equal 1.6 mil time goku and vegeta base combine and an incomplete ssjgod goku was confident so a 10x amp and a full version 2x
For me I've calculated a ssj3 vejito multiplier to be 800 thousand so I headcanon ssj God multiplier to be 1 million at least ( unsure regarding the difference between ritual ssj God and training ssj god so I personally have them as the same multiplier)
How you get yours?
Mine is (a+b)(potential of fusers)
2x100x400
Base z vegito 80,000
Ssj3 32,000,000
Buuhan I’ve gotten to 9,600
Vegetto is in the millions of times. SSG is from thousands of millions at bare minimun to "out of the blue"
Considering that: (all of these characters form the buu arc)
SS3 Goku < SS Gotenks (pre time chamber) < Base gotenks (post Time chamber)
U didn't answer the question
I find god hard to believe, seeing as blue Goku and vegeta were getting their ass whooped by broly, but when they fused ss gogeya was cleary winning against broly.
Non-Canon? It's literally in the manga lmao on hero
Dude…you CANNOT just mix and match each and every different continuity to try and make sense of something. This video is so complicated for no reason because you keep going back and forth between movies and manga and anime when they’re not really the same story. The nuances and details are different for ALL OF THEM.
On a separate note, the reason for Kale and Caulifla being surprised by Goku going SSJ3 wasn’t because it was stronger than the multiplier for Kales form, it’s because they’d never seen it before. They didn’t know it existed! You’d be shocked too if you thought you understood how something worked and then someone else casually added a whole other level to it. Basically the whole TOP Caulifla was talking about how she would get SSB and SSJ3 because A. She didn’t have them, and B. She was shown to not know about SSJ either but attained it immediately. So why not get SSJ3 immediately as well? There are STORY REASONS for certain things to happen, and it’s not all about the power of someone else being shocking even though that is what is shocking most of the time. I think the main issue with your video is that it’s essentially confirmation bias. You’re looking to prove your conclusion by using the material, instead of using the material to come to a conclusion. You’re putting in a lot of effort and I’m not trying to take away from that, but it’s directed the wrong way.
Lol still doesnt make sense
… Now while Ithe ritual super saiyan god might be stronger than the non-ritual super saiyan god form. But seriously using vegito blue as an example? Instead of I dunno, kefla? You see according to seeing how the powers of fusions becoming much higher than before. Because you using them using fusion instead of blue against fused zamasu is completely false. Sure base vegito is stronger than super saiyan blue goku and vegeta, That means nothing since fusion is based off both users max power, super buu was around just a bit stronger base ssj3 goku, mystic gohan was stronger than that, likely by a lower domination power difference of like 40%, so buuhan should be around 1000 times base buu saga goku, 1,200 times at most, buuhan when he got mad forced base vegito to transform, now unless your saying that going super saiyan blue isn’t even a 2000 times multiplier than fusion has gotten stronger
Blue goku and veagta ran from broly but den camr back as super sayaian 1 gogeta and banged dat broly dat they was running from soooo
Imo god=x1,000
just know , super sayian god is 10000000000000 , than super sain god kaioken is 10000000000000000000000 , anything after that , im Delusion and in a trap , of Loop O'S 👀
What?!? 😑 im not even going to entertain this Bs
You are very biased
The SSJ God MUST be 300 sextillion.
No not just by getting damage but by also getting pumped up in battle makes him get stronger
There’s no difference between ritual and no ritual because Base Vegito wasn’t stronger than blue or god ( because there’s no proof of that) also Goku and vegeta new they could use Blue with Vegito