Things to note that I forgot to mention in the video: - I have 18x10cm size hands - I play at ~41cm/360 for fast/tracking heavy games ~60cm/360 for slower/precision games - High polling rate mice are more noticeable with higher DPI and Higher Refresh rate monitors, I run my mice at 1600 DPI, and use the XL2546k 240hz monitor. - The Razer Viper V2 Pro go on sale quite often for $121 USD ($130 CAD on Amazon.ca 😮) - I mentioned the Finalmouse ULX comes with the dongle, and that you would have to buy the Razer one separately, but failed to compare that the ULX starts at at $189 USD where the Viper's MSRP at $149.99 USD + Dongle $29.99 USD = ~$180 USD, but you do save the hassle of not having to order a separate dongle only available through the online Razer store though.
Really good video man! I also think that vaxee and zowie, companies known for their shapes, are also way higher in quality and will last longer. I've had 3 copies of the DAV3 and 2 Viper V2 and every single copy developed either creaking or mushy clicks over the course of a couple of weeks, but my wired NP-01s still feels amazing after over a year, and I don't aim much worse on it either.
Another huge factor with aiming is sensor position. I use the CoolerMaster mm712 because the sensor is VERY far forward and I've gotten so used to it I can't use centered sensors. It started with the Orochi v2, another forward sensor. I've bought and returned the newest Pulsar, Lamzu, and Razer mice because of this. This issue doesn't get mentioned very often since >90% of the gaming mouse market has centered or nearly center sensors.
Yeahhh for sure, and interesting topic to delve into. I fingertip most of my mice, so I usually find that I like the sensor across or slightly above where my thumb sits
idk... you can get used to most mouse shapes and do well with them, it just takes some time. But you will always be held back by your mouse if it is unnecessarily heavy or has worse tech...
Hi Sylkiss, loved the video! It caught my attention that we share similar hand sizes; mine are also 18 x 10 cm. I've tried various mice and wanted to ask, do you primarily use the fingertip grip or claw grip? I primarily play valorant using a fingertip grip and while I currently use the Viper V2 Pro and enjoy it, I'm thinking about exploring other options for better comfort during fingertip use. The upcoming drop of the Medium Ultralight X is on my radar. Considering you use the Starlight 12 Small, do you think the extremely low weight of the mice would still be uncomfortable for tac shooters given the wider size of the Medium? I am currently in a weird limbo thinking about the same premise your video brought up. i've been through a superlight, x2 medium and mini, razer viper v2 pro, endgame gear xm1r, etc. any advice on the weight and shape of the starlight would be appreciated!
should also mention i was in the same boat as you where i used to fingertip my logitech g pro x superlight 1. currently doing the same for the Viper v2 pro although my main reason for wanting to swap has been that i felt that the width of stuff like the pulsar x2 medium / superlight / viper v2 pro have been a bit too wide for fingertip at times (for the superlight and v2 pro its probably on account of their height as the pulsar x2 medium feels a bit better in hand despite being wider) while stuff like the x2 mini can sometimes feel either a bit too short or the sides can be a bit uncomfortable compared to a superlight for when i fingertip in tac shooters. if you have any recommendations of mice to consider im all ears!
I have basically identically shaped hands and have an xm2we(same shape as the xm1r) and a starlight 12 small and a friend with the medium. The medium to me feels much more comfortable for long periods with fingertip grip, but yes, the weight feels like too little to really control my movements how I want to. If you're used to fingertipping the viper v2 pro, it shouldn't actually be too far off weight wise, but you'll definitely need a long adjustment period, and I would definitely not guarantee you'd be able to adjust your aim back to how it was unless you have some incredible mouse control. I'd say it's worth a shot just based off the resell value alone if you manage to get one on the drop in three days since there's no harm in trying it
Hi @CharlesPetsDogs! I fingertip whenever I can, but claw grip if the mouse doesn't allow for fingertip or fatigues my fingers after prolonged use. I actually own the Starlight-12 Last Legend in Medium, I couldn't find a comfortable way to fingertip it, though, the clicks of the Last Legend are a lot heavier than the Poseidon, so that may be a part of why I didn't like it. From what I heard the ULX has clicks similar to the G Pro X Superlight, so I'm also wondering if I wanted to pickup a ULX Medium to try it again, though, I'm 90% sure I will be picking up a ULX small during their 3rd batch. (Unless the zerømouse from optimum that is on it's way being shipped blows me away.) I personally think low weight mice have a higher skill floor, but a higher skill ceiling, along with a slightly steeper learning curve to being with. *Side note, I use a claw/fingertip hybrid when using the Viper, it is a bit wide feeling, making horizontal movements feel a lil stiff at times, but like I mentioned in the video, I had so much time on the OG Viper (ultimate) that i've sort of adjust to the shape. That said, the ULX Medium is slightly slimmer on the sides, so that may work out for you. My personal peripherals list docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cWYyblcE-wvJW4zVmiWFosCyIX4zoLL5FIBWXNOFjDk/edit#gid=0
thanks for the insight! I have been seeing people sell of their old Starlight 12 tenz for a pretty reasonable price. ive been between a starlight or trying a g-wolves HTX so i might even just coin flip on one of those if i cant get my hands on the ultralightX. thanks for the help! @@SylkissTech
Is this like, a mod kit? Or are you just saying I should mod it myself lol I unfortunately don't have the money burning through my wallet to do this for fun lol I do have the zerømouse coming in soon that will require my Viper V2 Pro PCB. Hoping it'll be a mix of the Viper's performance and feel of the starlight 12 small for me!
I'd be interested to hear more about the decision to get the small finalmouse, and if you think a medium or large may be more comfortable for you? I would have thought if you liked the shape of the vaxee, that a slightly larger mouse may be preferable. Was it purely because smaller = lighter? or something else? Basically, I wonder if a medium or large ULX might tick nearly all your boxes (Obviously it wouldn't be as ergonomic as the vaxee, but I imagine much closer than a small)
I originally wanted a medium, but with how FM does their "drops" I could only snatch a Poseidon variant in small. Later I picked up the Last Legend variant in Medium, but the L/R clicks are quite heavy, so it really put me off on giving the Medium size more hours. (side note, vaxee clicks are light and crisp 👌) I feel more comfortable aiming on the small, but that may be because I just have more hours on it. I'm honestly still deciding if I want to give the medium another shot with the ULX, but I have the zeromouse mod kit coming in, and I wanna put in some time with that shape before putting hours into a different shape.
this is off topic but out of curiosity are there any pc tweaks that you do or are you just on stock windows? also could i know your specs? mobo, ram, cpu & gpu. this is just out of general curiosity !
Stock windows, with minor adjustments such as: - Power plan - Fullscreen optimizations - Hardware GPU scheduling - Windows Game mode - Xbox game bar off - Mouse acceleration off - Basically all startup programs disabled Some Nvidia Control Panel adjustments And some BIOS adjustments, all safe stuff like XMP and Resizable BAR PC specs and other info here (There's a tab for PC Specs / Peripherals) docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cWYyblcE-wvJW4zVmiWFosCyIX4zoLL5FIBWXNOFjDk/edit#gid=0
@@SylkissTech hey, thanks for the reply, what power plan do you use? i find that power plan affects the feel of my games a lot. balanced generally feels better for me than high performance which is weird. fullscreen optimizations doesn't really make a difference in my experience, although it's probably better off, but then i can't take screenshots ingame. the rest are very standard. windows gpu scheduler and rebar affect the feel of the game immensely in my experience im running a 3070ti FE, 7800x3d, 6000mhz g.skill cl30 2x16 and the msi b650-p wifi motherboard. regarding the nvidia control panel i find many options greatly change the feel of the game and hit registration, low latency mode, power mode, shader cache and threaded optimizations are the main ones.
I use the high performance power plan, personally have not noticed any issues with it. (Have not tried balance in a while, maybe i'll try it again) Careful over adjusting the Nvidia control panel settings, I had some weird artifacting in the past. @@brandyyn
Have you ever used ergo's? I'm thinking of switching to the NP-01s from the dav3. I have the GPX2 but the hump is to pronounced to me in the back. Do you think the NP-01s would be a good go-to for palm/palm claw? 17.5 x 10 cm for hand measurements.
Sorry if this may not be of much help, but I tend to fingertip, claw, or hybrid ftip/claw my mice, but I’ve tried all three of the mentioned mice. Personally, I feel the dav3 limited my range of motion a bit because of the size. The NP01s is quite different compared to the dav3 and GPX, it’s a decent bit smaller and flatter. If you plan to palm the NP01s at all, their Outset AX or the Lamzu Thorn may be better (I have not tried either of these mice, but have heard very good things about them) I personally think with a similar hand size, the NP01s is more of a claw grip mouse, though the NP01 (bigger version) might be palmable, but I don’t own a copy to confirm this. It’s kind of hard for me to give any recommendations for palming, but maybe Eloshapes.com can help you compare the shapes and sizes a bit more
@@SylkissTech Thank you for the reply 😊. Im not sure if you used it before but how would it compare to Razer viper v2? Sometimes I felt that was to short and GPX2 to high. In regard to ergos I’m split between the Thorn or Outset 😂
NP01s in comparison to the Viper V2, the NP01s height is about the same but pushed back creating a hump for the the palm of your hand, it's similar to an ergo Viper Mini if it existed.@@darth_cheezus
I just ordered a wired NP-01s for 75 USD, including shipping. Do you think it was a bad decision? The wired connection doesn't bother me much, but I'm wondering if I might be missing out on better performance due to a sensor difference. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this. I just dont wanna regret getting the wired version if the wireless is that much better, I just simply found it hard to drop the extra money on the wireless since its nearly identical.
I can’t say from experience as I have not tried their wired mice, but… Between the PAW3395 and PWM3389 sensor there should be almost no real world use cases differences, the shape, coating, click feel is all from Vaxee, I trust that Vaxee will give you a solid product across their product line.
I have not! I am a little interested in how the XE-S compares to the XE, but I sold my XE recently as I never really found myself picking it up to use.
Could you elaborate? I'm genuinely curious from your perspective. To each their own, this video was my personal experience with mice. Could be that for me a combination of small and lightweight of the SL12, I tense up more holding angles making it less consistent, compared to the NP01-s and Viper where even if I tense up, it personally still feels quite steady. (Not that I would tense up for every gunfight, but like a 10% of the time thing) Might just be a fingertip grip issue.
i think thats more of an issue with tensing up when aiming in general, because from my experience, lighter mouse are better for games like valorant and csgo where everything requires a lot of microadjustments, so light weight is king for those types of games. I've also seen that most people who get starlights, and the new ulx released recently, get it for val and cs. The tensing up thing ive seen a video by West Proter about how a lot of peoples main problems with aim is tensing up their hand/arm so i think that may be a bigger problem @@SylkissTech
I myself use the ulx, upgraded from starlight tenz, for valorant and cs and hold my mouse very lightly to begin with so i never had the tensing up problem@@SylkissTech
I see I see, i'll keep this in mind and go take a look at the video. I find for that 10% of situations, tensing up helps me focus in and slow peak / slice angles, and those are where I feel the NP01s works better for me than the SL12. Otherwise, there are rare tense ups from when I'm surprised by an enemy's position, a jump scare of sorts. I can see how these types of tense ups can be a hinder to aim. An interesting topic to look into. @@2xYou_
Things to note that I forgot to mention in the video:
- I have 18x10cm size hands
- I play at ~41cm/360 for fast/tracking heavy games ~60cm/360 for slower/precision games
- High polling rate mice are more noticeable with higher DPI and Higher Refresh rate monitors, I run my mice at 1600 DPI, and use the XL2546k 240hz monitor.
- The Razer Viper V2 Pro go on sale quite often for $121 USD ($130 CAD on Amazon.ca 😮)
- I mentioned the Finalmouse ULX comes with the dongle, and that you would have to buy the Razer one separately, but failed to compare that the ULX starts at at $189 USD where the Viper's MSRP at $149.99 USD + Dongle $29.99 USD = ~$180 USD, but you do save the hassle of not having to order a separate dongle only available through the online Razer store though.
this video changed my life, god bless
Really good video man!
I also think that vaxee and zowie, companies known for their shapes, are also way higher in quality and will last longer.
I've had 3 copies of the DAV3 and 2 Viper V2 and every single copy developed either creaking or mushy clicks over the course of a couple of weeks, but my wired NP-01s still feels amazing after over a year, and I don't aim much worse on it either.
I feel that too!
I also personally feel Vaxee has one of the best click feeling mice out of the box.
Crazy production value for 51 subs.
Another huge factor with aiming is sensor position. I use the CoolerMaster mm712 because the sensor is VERY far forward and I've gotten so used to it I can't use centered sensors. It started with the Orochi v2, another forward sensor. I've bought and returned the newest Pulsar, Lamzu, and Razer mice because of this. This issue doesn't get mentioned very often since >90% of the gaming mouse market has centered or nearly center sensors.
Yeahhh for sure, and interesting topic to delve into. I fingertip most of my mice, so I usually find that I like the sensor across or slightly above where my thumb sits
all of the wireless Vaxee mice eventually will have a 4000hz update with a seperate dongle, so it's a landslide win for Vaxee between the 3
For now, for sure, waiting for vaxee to also adopt optical switches, hopefully they're as light and crisp as their mechanical ones.
So tldr is that: shape is king, weights is *a big factor* but depend on the person and games and performance tech is negligible. Got it
idk... you can get used to most mouse shapes and do well with them, it just takes some time. But you will always be held back by your mouse if it is unnecessarily heavy or has worse tech...
@@Katze822228 like I said weight it really depend on person to person to me under 75 is enough to consider light
@@Katze822228 does the mousepad surface not matter when including a weighted mouse or... ? why does everyone leave that part out. mouse feet also*
Not bad, actually good vid
investing in this channel
good video man
nice first video
Hi Sylkiss, loved the video! It caught my attention that we share similar hand sizes; mine are also 18 x 10 cm. I've tried various mice and wanted to ask, do you primarily use the fingertip grip or claw grip? I primarily play valorant using a fingertip grip and while I currently use the Viper V2 Pro and enjoy it, I'm thinking about exploring other options for better comfort during fingertip use. The upcoming drop of the Medium Ultralight X is on my radar. Considering you use the Starlight 12 Small, do you think the extremely low weight of the mice would still be uncomfortable for tac shooters given the wider size of the Medium? I am currently in a weird limbo thinking about the same premise your video brought up. i've been through a superlight, x2 medium and mini, razer viper v2 pro, endgame gear xm1r, etc. any advice on the weight and shape of the starlight would be appreciated!
should also mention i was in the same boat as you where i used to fingertip my logitech g pro x superlight 1. currently doing the same for the Viper v2 pro although my main reason for wanting to swap has been that i felt that the width of stuff like the pulsar x2 medium / superlight / viper v2 pro have been a bit too wide for fingertip at times (for the superlight and v2 pro its probably on account of their height as the pulsar x2 medium feels a bit better in hand despite being wider) while stuff like the x2 mini can sometimes feel either a bit too short or the sides can be a bit uncomfortable compared to a superlight for when i fingertip in tac shooters. if you have any recommendations of mice to consider im all ears!
I have basically identically shaped hands and have an xm2we(same shape as the xm1r) and a starlight 12 small and a friend with the medium. The medium to me feels much more comfortable for long periods with fingertip grip, but yes, the weight feels like too little to really control my movements how I want to. If you're used to fingertipping the viper v2 pro, it shouldn't actually be too far off weight wise, but you'll definitely need a long adjustment period, and I would definitely not guarantee you'd be able to adjust your aim back to how it was unless you have some incredible mouse control. I'd say it's worth a shot just based off the resell value alone if you manage to get one on the drop in three days since there's no harm in trying it
Hi @CharlesPetsDogs!
I fingertip whenever I can, but claw grip if the mouse doesn't allow for fingertip or fatigues my fingers after prolonged use.
I actually own the Starlight-12 Last Legend in Medium, I couldn't find a comfortable way to fingertip it, though, the clicks of the Last Legend are a lot heavier than the Poseidon, so that may be a part of why I didn't like it.
From what I heard the ULX has clicks similar to the G Pro X Superlight, so I'm also wondering if I wanted to pickup a ULX Medium to try it again, though, I'm 90% sure I will be picking up a ULX small during their 3rd batch.
(Unless the zerømouse from optimum that is on it's way being shipped blows me away.)
I personally think low weight mice have a higher skill floor, but a higher skill ceiling, along with a slightly steeper learning curve to being with.
*Side note, I use a claw/fingertip hybrid when using the Viper, it is a bit wide feeling, making horizontal movements feel a lil stiff at times, but like I mentioned in the video, I had so much time on the OG Viper (ultimate) that i've sort of adjust to the shape. That said, the ULX Medium is slightly slimmer on the sides, so that may work out for you.
My personal peripherals list
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cWYyblcE-wvJW4zVmiWFosCyIX4zoLL5FIBWXNOFjDk/edit#gid=0
thanks for the insight! I have been seeing people sell of their old Starlight 12 tenz for a pretty reasonable price. ive been between a starlight or trying a g-wolves HTX so i might even just coin flip on one of those if i cant get my hands on the ultralightX. thanks for the help! @@SylkissTech
You should try a Viper V2 Pro PCB to Vaxee XE mod for the 4K
Is this like, a mod kit?
Or are you just saying I should mod it myself lol
I unfortunately don't have the money burning through my wallet to do this for fun lol
I do have the zerømouse coming in soon that will require my Viper V2 Pro PCB.
Hoping it'll be a mix of the Viper's performance and feel of the starlight 12 small for me!
@@SylkissTech No, it's a 3D printed Vaxee shell file for the Viper V2 Pro pcb
@@mapotofuu Ah, I see, I'll look into it!
I'd be interested to hear more about the decision to get the small finalmouse, and if you think a medium or large may be more comfortable for you? I would have thought if you liked the shape of the vaxee, that a slightly larger mouse may be preferable. Was it purely because smaller = lighter? or something else?
Basically, I wonder if a medium or large ULX might tick nearly all your boxes (Obviously it wouldn't be as ergonomic as the vaxee, but I imagine much closer than a small)
I originally wanted a medium, but with how FM does their "drops" I could only snatch a Poseidon variant in small.
Later I picked up the Last Legend variant in Medium, but the L/R clicks are quite heavy, so it really put me off on giving the Medium size more hours. (side note, vaxee clicks are light and crisp 👌)
I feel more comfortable aiming on the small, but that may be because I just have more hours on it.
I'm honestly still deciding if I want to give the medium another shot with the ULX, but I have the zeromouse mod kit coming in, and I wanna put in some time with that shape before putting hours into a different shape.
Thanks for the in depth reply!
this is off topic but out of curiosity are there any pc tweaks that you do or are you just on stock windows? also could i know your specs? mobo, ram, cpu & gpu. this is just out of general curiosity !
Stock windows, with minor adjustments such as:
- Power plan
- Fullscreen optimizations
- Hardware GPU scheduling
- Windows Game mode
- Xbox game bar off
- Mouse acceleration off
- Basically all startup programs disabled
Some Nvidia Control Panel adjustments
And some BIOS adjustments, all safe stuff like XMP and Resizable BAR
PC specs and other info here (There's a tab for PC Specs / Peripherals)
docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1cWYyblcE-wvJW4zVmiWFosCyIX4zoLL5FIBWXNOFjDk/edit#gid=0
@@SylkissTech hey, thanks for the reply, what power plan do you use? i find that power plan affects the feel of my games a lot. balanced generally feels better for me than high performance which is weird.
fullscreen optimizations doesn't really make a difference in my experience, although it's probably better off, but then i can't take screenshots ingame.
the rest are very standard.
windows gpu scheduler and rebar affect the feel of the game immensely in my experience
im running a 3070ti FE, 7800x3d, 6000mhz g.skill cl30 2x16 and the msi b650-p wifi motherboard.
regarding the nvidia control panel i find many options greatly change the feel of the game and hit registration, low latency mode, power mode, shader cache and threaded optimizations are the main ones.
I use the high performance power plan, personally have not noticed any issues with it. (Have not tried balance in a while, maybe i'll try it again)
Careful over adjusting the Nvidia control panel settings, I had some weird artifacting in the past.
@@brandyyn
Have you ever used ergo's? I'm thinking of switching to the NP-01s from the dav3. I have the GPX2 but the hump is to pronounced to me in the back. Do you think the NP-01s would be a good go-to for palm/palm claw? 17.5 x 10 cm for hand measurements.
Sorry if this may not be of much help, but I tend to fingertip, claw, or hybrid ftip/claw my mice, but I’ve tried all three of the mentioned mice.
Personally, I feel the dav3 limited my range of motion a bit because of the size.
The NP01s is quite different compared to the dav3 and GPX, it’s a decent bit smaller and flatter.
If you plan to palm the NP01s at all, their Outset AX or the Lamzu Thorn may be better (I have not tried either of these mice, but have heard very good things about them)
I personally think with a similar hand size, the NP01s is more of a claw grip mouse, though the NP01 (bigger version) might be palmable, but I don’t own a copy to confirm this.
It’s kind of hard for me to give any recommendations for palming, but maybe Eloshapes.com can help you compare the shapes and sizes a bit more
@@SylkissTech Thank you for the reply 😊. Im not sure if you used it before but how would it compare to Razer viper v2? Sometimes I felt that was to short and GPX2 to high. In regard to ergos I’m split between the Thorn or Outset 😂
NP01s in comparison to the Viper V2, the NP01s height is about the same but pushed back creating a hump for the the palm of your hand, it's similar to an ergo Viper Mini if it existed.@@darth_cheezus
I'm guessing your hands are too small for the dav3
@@Spectrulight They were. Ended up grasping the Vaxee Outset B and love it. NP-01s I got a mold for it and it was waaay to small
I just ordered a wired NP-01s for 75 USD, including shipping. Do you think it was a bad decision? The wired connection doesn't bother me much, but I'm wondering if I might be missing out on better performance due to a sensor difference. I would appreciate hearing your thoughts on this. I just dont wanna regret getting the wired version if the wireless is that much better, I just simply found it hard to drop the extra money on the wireless since its nearly identical.
I can’t say from experience as I have not tried their wired mice, but…
Between the PAW3395 and PWM3389 sensor there should be almost no real world use cases differences, the shape, coating, click feel is all from Vaxee, I trust that Vaxee will give you a solid product across their product line.
Fantastic, subbed by the way. I can tell you will make quality.@@SylkissTech
Have you tried Vaxee XE-S?
I have not! I am a little interested in how the XE-S compares to the XE, but I sold my XE recently as I never really found myself picking it up to use.
my starlight has viper v2 pcb in, so im cool right?
This person is on to something... They have the solution 😎
there is also meowmouse that has a custom pcb for the starlights that turn them into 4k if you can get a shell. @@SylkissTech
Oh yes, I saw a video the other day from @AimAdapt about it.@@TheSmithdub
what ranks are you in the games you play
I mainly play Valorant Immortal 1, peaked #6701 a few acts ago.
i feel like u got the valorant light weight mouse the completely opposite way
Could you elaborate? I'm genuinely curious from your perspective.
To each their own, this video was my personal experience with mice.
Could be that for me a combination of small and lightweight of the SL12, I tense up more holding angles making it less consistent, compared to the NP01-s and Viper where even if I tense up, it personally still feels quite steady. (Not that I would tense up for every gunfight, but like a 10% of the time thing)
Might just be a fingertip grip issue.
i think thats more of an issue with tensing up when aiming in general, because from my experience, lighter mouse are better for games like valorant and csgo where everything requires a lot of microadjustments, so light weight is king for those types of games. I've also seen that most people who get starlights, and the new ulx released recently, get it for val and cs. The tensing up thing ive seen a video by West Proter about how a lot of peoples main problems with aim is tensing up their hand/arm so i think that may be a bigger problem @@SylkissTech
I myself use the ulx, upgraded from starlight tenz, for valorant and cs and hold my mouse very lightly to begin with so i never had the tensing up problem@@SylkissTech
I see I see, i'll keep this in mind and go take a look at the video.
I find for that 10% of situations, tensing up helps me focus in and slow peak / slice angles, and those are where I feel the NP01s works better for me than the SL12.
Otherwise, there are rare tense ups from when I'm surprised by an enemy's position, a jump scare of sorts. I can see how these types of tense ups can be a hinder to aim.
An interesting topic to look into.
@@2xYou_