It's funny that in Dragon Age Series there are people/creatures that seem to talk completely unsignificant non-senses, however as you analyze the whole game and speculate what will happen next, you discover that all these non-senses might be the key to understanding everything. The vid was really interesting. The comments under the vid too. ^^
this definitely explains why solas hates grey wardens so much (not so much the individual grey wardens but rather the very notion of the grey wardens, an army committed to fighting the blight). by trying to "cure" the blight and completely eradicate it they'd be unwittingly freeing the titans. throughout the series we've only seen the bad side of the blight, and indeed i never would have guessed that there was a positive side to it! (ie. keeping the titans in check) this made solas' opinion of the grey wardens very confusing at first - why would he be so vehemently against fighting evil? (his explanation of "i don't like how they would go to any lengths to fight the blight" just didn't jive for me. he's obviously someone who believes that the ends justify the means) but this theory, if i understood it correctly, resolves that issue - he's obviously against the grey wardens accidentally freeing the titans. great theory!
I like to think of the Titans as similar to the Colossi in Shadow of the Colossus. Peaceful beings, perceived as a Threat through their sheer Size. Abused and hurt by Mortals, especially the Evanuris, wanting to fuel their own Magic through their Blood. I would not think of them as evil, but as self-preserving. They don't want to get blighted (because who wants to get blighted) and they want to wake up from whatever slumber they are in. But their Waking would mean the end of Thedas as we know it, due to their very Nature as - basically - the Foundations of the very World. ... or I am interpreting Way too much because I really liked Shadow of the Colossus.
+iona2225 So I didn't get into this because I wanted to establish the theory first, but I think Solas knows how powerful the Titans are. He even hints that he's a bit jealous of it (in his conversations with Varric). I'm starting to think that Solas would shape reality in a sense that he'd get rid of the Titans. There's no proper way of doing that right now, with the physical world and the metaphysical world separated. Once the collision between realms occurs, there will be people who die and then survive. Solas wants to make sure that there's freedom of mind, whatever the cost. The Evanuris and Titans are not part of that future. And Titans go where they will. And there are multiple ones. Would anyone honestly be sure that they were in a Titan? Also, there are those who saw the Titan and then completely forgot all about it the next day (one of the soldiers in Descent DLC). They don't stay stationary enough for people to remember, and it seems even being near one would make you forget.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity This theory is groundbreaking IF the next DA game shows ur theory as truth!!!! I dont think either r right but IF i had to pick. I would side with the Titans because they mold the earth like Tectonic plates recycle earth crust in reality. They r critical to the environment as much as they r a natural disasters like Earthquakes. Evanuris which Solas wants to release from the Veil WILL kill ALL living life on the SURFACES in the process IF Solas cant restore his people without burning the surface of Thedas. They dont seem to give damn about other races but their tribe. This “free” will is more like Fee to live temporally until fade burn all non-dalish societies. If Thedas culture produces better tech by the we need pick sides between Evanuris or Titians. I would side with the Titans because Tech will be the KEY to bend the Titans to the Surfaces will.
Well... that's my mind blown. I've been pondering just what purpose the introduction of the Titans could serve in the long run and this is as good a theory as any. The "Whispers written in Red Lyrium" makes a lot more sense now. I wonder if in a future game we'll presented with a choice like this. 1. Allow the veil to be destroyed and let the Evanuris fight the Titans. 2. Maintain the veil and deal with Titans ourselves.
+LostMercenary99 So, it's like Solas is doing a good thing here. No way anyone can take on the Titans alone. The Evanuris will be needed to defeat them, I'm thinking. He's probably pitting them against one another, just like in the old tales of Fen'Harel the Dalish believe in. He sides with both opposing god factions and then ends up defying both of them, as well.
Yet we also know how the Taint started- when the Black City was entered physically, after Solas created the Veil- but what do Titans have to do with that? Why are Titans so closely related to the Taint even though it began with something related more to Solas than them? I think there is reason to belive that there is more a reason than simply the Taint as to why the Titans sleep- and how the Taint can end. It seems to me that the Titans are deeply connected to how Solas created the Veil, explaining how the Titans are connected to the Taint- because the Taint is connected to the Veil. This also gives reason to why it seems the only material to consistently defy the existance of the Veil is Lyrium- something that exists both in the physical world and the fade. It would not suprise me if the very act of tearing down the Veil led to the Titan's return. I also believe that Solas knows and has a plan for this- for them to fight the false gods, locking them in combat and removing two birds with one stone. And, if they should be completely destroyed, what would happen to the world and the fade? They seem more a core part of it than we imagine, something deeply related to the basic functioning of the fade as well as the material plane- it may have consequences beyond any imagination.
Well, if this is true, then I might know what Solas plans for the evanuris is when he tear down the veil, I think he will awaken the Titans at the same time, and the Titans will recognize the evanuris that defeated them and thus they will attack them. I other words, I think he plans to have them fight til they are too weak so that he can kill them himself
Can't remember where I heard it or read it. But Solas was once able to travel between the Evanuris and the Forgotten ones freely. If the Forgotten ones were titans... Are the Titans the Fade, being able to shape and bend things at will. They were able to 'shape the stone'. Did Solas somehow manage to...disconnect the Titans from their being? I have to wonder how he knew how to create the Veil, could it be the Titans were hoping that creating the veil would take away their 'diseased' blood? Could it be that the disease was created by the Evanuris in hopes to 'end the song'? Is it possible Solas was once a part of them - a spirit? - that became 'more human' in order to establish a connection. Like an ambassador of sorts. He could have befriended some of them, Mythal being the obvious one now. Yet when she was killed he banished them all away? Blah. Now I'm overthinking. I'm not even looking at codex's and such. I want to get the World of Thedas books but I need to get paid first. I think Solas is the dangerous one, the veil is what could have isolated the Titans. Tearing the veil may strengthen them, perhaps it is purposeful or not on Solas's part. But honestly Thedas has adapted with both the Evanuris and the Titans. Unleashing both is just dangerous.
+ScifiSOS The Forgotten Ones are more likely to be elvan that traveled the forbidden realms (of the Fade, Thedas, etc) and struck back at the supposed authority of the Evanuris with any means possible. Think extreme Templar vs Mage conflict. Order vs Chaos. The Forbidden Ones may have welcomed support, but never demanded complete worship. Still worshiped, but more likely for the sake of their deeds in war (again Titans?) and resistance to the Evanuris. Now, there are hints that they're locked in the Abyss of the Beyond/Fade, with some sort of demonic connection (potentially a connection to the Forbidden Ones that taught blood magic to the Tevinter). Solas was one single one of the possible combined force of the Evanuris and Forgotten Ones against the Titans, and he had his own agenda after seeing the fight of Order vs Chaos they were waging and threatening the world with. The Evanuris were likely on the mage --> spirit side while Forgotten Ones were likely on the mage --> demon side with Solas keeping qualities of both ('trickster') and also in his way, the most connection to the common elves. He indeed may have become the most technically (though not overtly) powerful mage-god but yes, also become more lower (I can't say 'human' or 'mortal' but you get the point) and worked to sabotage both god sides. Mythal may have been the one Evanuris he considered his friend and he may have sympathized with their level of spiritual purity compared to the Forbidden Ones, and I'd be willing that he at least sympathized with the cause of the Forbidden Ones more but utterly disapproved of their (demonic-ish) methods. But in the end he was of his own, splitting from and betraying the Creators and backstabbing and 'killing' the Forbidden Ones (it would effectively be a kind of death to be trapped in the Void). This world may be a dead one to Solas, but the Veil actually provided the map to relatively free willed mortals to take control, even as the 'magic returns'. Solas only needs to realize this.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity it's a very good theory but i don't think the Whispers in the red lyrium is the titans. i think it's the Evanuris trapped in the fade There was something Cole says about the Templars that i found interesting, when asked how a Templar feels he says something along the lines of "They listen to an old song and it blocks out all others and through that blocks out all magic." i think that is the song of the titans, although they can probably only vaguely sense it. BUT If you then ask about Red Lyrium Templars he says something along the lines of "They are dark they hear a different song, The Song Behind the Door Old Whispers Want Open." it think he's referring to the Evanuris, who for all we know are still trapped in the fade. on the subject of the fade.... with all we have learned in DA:I and even more so in Trespasser, doesn't that bring the nature of the Black City into question? my personal theory about it is that the black city is the remnants of Arlathan. think about it, in theodosian history they say that arlathan was cast into the sea by tevinter. but as we have learned (and as Egg has said) many of the tales of tevinters involvment in the fall of Elvhenan are made up by tevinter after the elves had already fallen. i think that when Egg´Harel created the veil Arlathan was also ripped from the physical world, and that that is what the Black City is, the ruins of Arlathan, and the prison of the Evanuris. they may even have created the blight by tricking Corypheus and his cohorts into entering their prison and then casting them out back onto Thedas when they had the Blight Update: two things 1) if this theory holds ground, what does that mean for the Old Gods? because that would implicate that the Evanuris used Dumat to trick Corypheus 2) with all the new lore about the relationship between the ancient elves and dwarfs, it makes me question the red lyrium artifact we found in the primeval thaig, because it does look suspiciously much like the end-credits scene where Mythal gives her powers to Egg'Harel. but how and why was it there?
+Saskia Senpai That would make alot of Sense 2 since Cory tried 2 tear down the Veil and thus breaking the Evanuris free. I guess we will see. Maybe there is truth in both teories. Like the Evanuris wanting to get everyone under their controle by using the red Lyrium Titan or something along the Line.
+Saskia Senpai As far as Cole's quotes, I still think it's the difference between a normal titan and a blighted Titan. Of course, this also includes the Evanuris because they are the ones stuck behind the Veil, but at the same time, the Evanuris aren't capable of the Song. They only have their whispers, whereas in the lyrium, you hear the songs. That could also set an example that oh, the Evanuris are behind that song, but at the same time, there were screams in the red lyrium that were only temporarily calmed and soothed with the magic that the Venatori did in the (I think) Hissing Wastes. Also, there are some newer quotes from Cole in Trespasser that say all the songs fit together. Even the angry ones. And I'm starting to think that the Black City may be Arlathan as well, or it could simply be the source of the corruption that is as big as a city. Like a Titan. It's a bit gross, but I think the Black City may be a Titan. As far as your quesitons 1) The spread of the Blight through the human magisters I feel was just spreading its influence past the Elves. The humans were all too willing to tap into what the Elves had (as Abelas said, was like carrion feasting). The magisters were desperate for anything that'd continue their religion. 2) It seemed locked away for years near a vault and other treasures. I'd say it was locked away. The people there died and the spirits/demons started to feed. It may have been abandoned because of the Blight's prolonged influence.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity OH MY GOSH, senpai noticed me let me just get myself together again. I agree that your theory about the titans has a lot of evidence, and it's a good and plausible theory, i guess we'll have to see where bioware decides to go with it also the 2nd question was not so much about what happened in the primeval thaig, but why the red lyrium idol was there, and why it looks so much like Egg'Harel and Mythal's reunion also loved the bit about sandal, the magic solas used really does look eerily similar to what sandal did to the ogre. which raises a lot of questions about what exactly sandal is
+Ashe | Lady Insanity The one from Cole , do you mean the one when you find the red Lyrium in the Qunari base ? I thought that was about the Qunari and the dragonblood speaking to them lol gotta listen to it again :)
I think that the evanuris created the blight to kill the titans. This would explain why Flemeth guides those who oppose the blight. She doesn't want the evanuris to win even though it would mean the titans win. She sees the titans as the lesser of two evils.
I'm both excited and annoyed by this prospect. On one hands, Dragon Age is working up to this major epic that may well rival some of the greatest Epics of our time. An the other hand, that epic seems to be taking the all too familiar route of humans being the only ones that offer an option with minimal negatives. If Solas succeeds the elves will be restored. If the Titans succeed all will be under their will. I have no doubts something with the Great Dragons and the Kossith will be involved at some point, maybe even the Fex. And there are the Intelligent Darkspawn to take into account, the Architect and his Ilk. This seems to be turning into a major epic, and if Bioware isn't careful they can really fuck it up.
(We have found the dreams again). - is specifically about the Lyrium which is found in the fade. Which means that the Titans have entered through the veil. When you think of it, the Titans used to be part of the fade intrinsically alongside everything else, and the Fade removed their ability to shape the stone. It may also be why Dwarves cannot dream. Alternatively, the Titans themselves may be the first (stone) that has a spirit. The titans are likely the Stone's first children. If Dwarves, Nugs and many beasts came from the stone (As a gift to Elgar'nan - the land brought forth great birds and beasts of sky and forest). So what would the Evanuris be? - Where the sun touched the earth is the sky/air? The surface of the earth is where the sun touches the earth. So the first consciousness? So the Evanuris would be either powerful entities that embued the earth (rests in it)? The creatures the comes from the earth (alongside the plants) are all these entities (whether its Titans or Evanuris or one in the same) they can only exist through other living creatures. There is also the Avvar mythos that matches up interestingly with some of the Elven mythos; Korth the mountain father (matches Elgar'nan). Korth sealed his heart. Elgar'nan sealed the sun into the depths of the earth. Both acts created mountains. Korth also ruled alongside Lady of the Skies.(Mythal) and it is one of her agents (or herself)- the Ptarmigan who found his heart in the mountains. If the sealing of his heart (or the sun), may have been resolved in the same way as the following; "Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!" Sounds pretty much like having delt a blow to the mountain/or returning something to the people/living. Sindri Sky-Breaker, boldest of the heroes of old, succeeded in climbing to the summit and stood in the Hall of the Mountain-Father in the flesh. Sounds like Falon'din (Proud and ambitious). Dirthamen sounds like Sigfrost. The Great Bear . Its said Dirthamen gave his secrets to many animals, only the bear kept theirs. Its also said Dirthamen had a city in the mountains. Imhar = Fen'harel? The trickster of the Avvar pantheon, Imhar is a slight man who must rely on his quick tongue instead of strength. Avvars enjoy tales of Imhar's jests and mockery, perhaps the most popular of which is that of Imhar and an evil seductress. She lured him into facing her unarmed, then faced him with an army of demons. Playing the coward, Imhar lead them on a merry chase through a mountain pass. (Could this be Andruil in the tale of how Fen'harel outwitted her and Anaris-the Forgotten one?)
Well bioware did make both mass effect and dragon age, both involve dark forces influenceing and corrupting people, I think it is cool how they are so similar and yet so different.
your new Theory is rly something to think about ! I was sitting in front of the Deep Roads Lore in Trespasser and was wondering how powerful a Titan must be, if all the superpower Elves only locked them away instead of killing them off. Magic seems a way to corrupt Lyrium as Solas states when you first get to the Breech so it may be possible that the Elves corrupted them indeed.
"Alas, so long as the music plays we dance." That line always bugged me. Thanks for sharing your theory! So many different directions for DA4 to go, I can't help but get excited.
+Inquisitor Adaar Could you imagine Mass Effect was in the same world as DA, just in a very, very distant future? :D I got that idea, when I first heard someone in ME screaming "Oh, Maker" x) It's insane.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity Following your thoughts, i would consider also Andraste as an Agent of the Titans. Because she clearly heard a song from a beeing called "Maker".She is also bound to her purpose,to bring the Chant into the World. Also the control from the Chantry over Thedas could be seen as some form of "Pre-Hive-Mind".Maybe she was one of the first Agents of the Titans but they where to weak to controll the events full. In the Chantry the belief is, that the MAKER SHAPED THE WOLRD. Couldn't the Maker be something like the Will of the Titans transcended into something a human could understand and relate to ?
+Lesson Learned I'm of the theory that Andraste was a vessel for Mythal, and Shartan was Solas. He worked with Mythal to free Elven slaves from the Imperium and helped give the elves their homeland of the Dales. For whatever reason he went back into Uthenera and awoke again before the events of Inquisition.
From what we know of Solas he earned his title from freeing slaves from corrupt Mage overlords. It seems logical he would fight with Tevinter who had basically become another Arlathan.; a ruling elite of would be mage- gods with a underling class of elven slaves.
But the Titan's where locked up, so how could one be the maker. I actually always wonder if the maker was some kind of demon or spirt. A spirt of compassion maybe.
+Haris Jablan I always drink from the well! It's usefull in Trespasser and i think it will be usefull in the future game (games?). If you ask Flemeth/Mythal if you are her servant now she laughs and says "Is that how you see yourself? A servant? I have no commands for you. Not yet." and i don't think Mythal is truly gone. She transfers something (part of her?) into the Eluvian before Solas kills Flemeth. The next game will be interesting. :)
Maybe the blight is a result of an angry Titan who wishes to dominate the other Titans or to fight off the elves. Who bent the song into a more twisted manor in order to dominate.
No, I don't buy it. There are a lot of other factors involved. Titans are only a part. Here's a link to my thread, which is ordered and numbered for convenience and ease of navigation if you want a detailed analysis of my thoughts along with codices and screenshots to back up my theories (instead of reading this long ass post) forum.bioware.com/topic/563161-major-spoilers-trespasser-edit-ancient-accumulated-lore-theories-discussions-20/ They are a force of balance. The Fade and the unchanging world. I believe the Titans moved around and "shaped" the world in order to compensate for the changes being made by the Evanuris and Elvhen People who took form and claimed the earth as their right. This brought the Titans to their attention, which is why they started hunting them and learned of lyrium and it's enhancing qualities. I don't believe Mythal is an agent of the Titans either, her plans revolve around what was wrought by the Evanuris and what Solas plans to do. I believe the veil is what brought the Titans into a dormant state. Without The Fade interacting with the unchanging world, their role as Shapers of the stone and as keepers of balance isn't needed. They are cut off from their purpose as well as the source of their consciousness. This is why they haven't created anymore Dwarves and most likely why the Sha-Brytol are so lost and confused. The fact that the breach is what caused the Titan to "panic" ends credence to this train of thought. The Elvhen people were products of The Fade and were spirits before they found a way to take form. Given the codex Old Elven Writing: "Their workers scurry, witless, soulless, this death will be a mercy" we know how the Elvhen people regarded the Dwarves, they pitied them and didn't even consider them "real" people. Their views basically reflected Solas' perceptions of modern Thedosians. They felled Titans before the veil. I doubt they (The Titans) held any sway over Solas or any of the ancient Elvhen. As for Sandal, he very well could have been, or is connected to a Titan. As for "not enchantment" i.e. "magic", it rather seemed to be a frost spell, "Cone of Frost" to be precise, rather than him turning the ogre to stone like Solas did Qunari, if you watch carefully. Speaking of Qunari, we still don't know their circumstances, though it's implied they are a mixed race infused with bred with Dragon blood who were a mistake. It's implied the Kossith, whether a culture or an actual race, were also "horned" and I believe they served as slaves during the Tevinter Imperium when they left from the east, 15 years before the Magisters reached the Golden City. I think they were used as blood sacrifices and slaves to fuel powerful blood magic (as we know dragon blood is especially powerful). We also have no clue what caused the blight in the first place, only hints that it was due to the Evanuris unleashing something primordial is their greed. The Forgotten Ones are also another factor that has yet to come into play. from what we understand of Geldauran's claim, they are not Titans, nor are they agents of the Titans. They could be however, involved in having unleashed, created or harnessed the blight. Besides, if it was that simple the series wouldn't have much of a shelf life in my opinion, meaning, I would lose interest in the lore if this was the case. The song from lyrium is said to be different than the calling of the Old Gods, which is perpetuated by the blight, not red lyrium, meaning the blight itself is of a separate nature. The Black city is said to corrupt spirits with the taint who wander to close to it, meaning it is a sickness of the soul also made physical when it hitched a ride on the Magisters once they breach the Golden City. This is why Red Lyrium i.e. blighted lyrium can infect people "psychologically" simply if someone gets near it compared to normal lyrium, where its effects on the psyche require "physical" contact. Also, Dwarves were created by the Titans and once held a symbiotic relationship with them as Valta does, this is why Dwarves still have a lingering connection, like whispers of something once lost, the stone sense. Other races can only hear the song when handling lyrium such as Templars and mages. The song itself also seems to repel Darkspawn, interfering with the calling. In World of Thedas Vol. 2, it's also speculated that their are a lot of suspicious things revolving around the world such as the Voshai, mysterious traders from the west who apparently are led by Dwarves, who apparently hold standing in their culture and are often seen as ship captains. Then we have "Parladians" from the Boeric Islands, who could or could not have magic specialists akin to the seers of Rivain that specialize in concealment spells that can mask a whole islands "location". The Tirashan to the West also holds many mysteries, including Elves that seem to worship The Forgotten Ones. We have the "sunless lands" to the north, described as a hellish wasteland of Ice and snow home to Chasind exiles which may or may not have formed their own tribes. To the East, the supposed Kossith/Qunari homeland of which we know next to nothing. It is said many who ventured forth have disappeared, some due to immense sea creatures, others due to what they found on the mainland. Drakon's Prophecy seems to imply a war was fought there with tooth and claw, sword and bow, brethren who after a time, could not be distinguished from one another cursed, generation after generation. Perhaps this was in relation to what happened with the Kossith and what led to their "dragon blood". If the Inquisitor is Vashoth, Kieran will either declare that their blood "doesn't belong" to the Inquisitor's people and express his sorrow at what happened to the people, which could also be in relation to what transpired in the East. The Par Vollen Pyramids are yet another example of mysteries waiting to be explored and explained. All of this explain there are still many pieces of the puzzle left to put together and the Titans are but a piece, not the frame which holds it all together.
In a general speculation sense, I can see the known Darkspawn (Architect 'free willed' ones?) actually being an ALLY against what the Blue/Pure Titans could threaten Thedas with. Its one thing to be driven into demonic-ish frenzy, but even this berzerking is a boon when facing a gestalt hivemind that strips away individuality. I would not even be surprised if the next DA protagonist gets a power involving the Blight (not necessarily being a Grey Warden, but more).
Actualy, come to think of it, do you think that Leliana's vision may have been sent/caused by the Titans? It was the vision that gave her the impulse to go with the Warden afterall.
What a fascinating theory. I am quite intrigued. In the light of your revelations, I have to wonder about Fenris - I mean, he is covered in lyrium-infused markings, right? So what would that make him? Another agent? Yet he did not hear any song, could not foresee the future... or at least never mentioned anything like that. Hm, intriguing indeed.
+Incubafan87 Lyrium itself won't necessarily manipulate much until its connected to more lyrium, I think. His 'song' is at least largely his own. However, it could be that his specifically anti-mage (remember the closest magical power a mage has is their blood magic, even through they have the other magical potential, albeit helped/fueled by drinking lyrium potions) and anti-blood magic attitude is nurtured by the lyrium markings, just as Templars find it difficult to humanize themselves when controlling mages. Regardless, he has free will. The markings do bring Fenris closer to the blue (Titan? Evanuris? ..Maker? etc?) side of things and gives him the ability to phase through supposedly solid object and become a lyrium ghost. I wouldn't assume he's an agent, or if he is, its in one of the most indirect ways. I'd say he's at least almost totally his own person, but his powers lead up to what we start seeing in DAI. In some ways Fenris might be considered a Super Templar but only in certain ways and not to the point of hearing any song (his lyrium 'is his own' etched into him, not constantly ingested). In some ways I'd consider him like a mortal abomination (not in terms of demons/spirits, but Fade-like abilities). He's an example of how Warriors in future games could still become more 'magical' as the series gets more 'magical'. Fenris is connected to Lyrium which draws on the Fade(?). This much of a degree of separation results in a mortal that has magical abilities without actually being a 'mage' casting 'spells'. Valta is another sort of example of this phenomenon, but she is directly tied to a Titan, not just its 'blood' (lyrium). TLDR: I think he's his own person but often rejects and misunderstands the extent of his own abilities.
+Malcolm Swoboda Thank you for your thoughts on the matter, and allow me to say, that you raise some truly great points. I agree with you, that Fenris still has his free will. Which is exactly why I wondered about his role in the first place. I could not grasp, how could he still maintain "himself". But you explained it quite nicely: "Lyrium itself will not necessarily manipulate much until its connected to more lyrium". Fenris owns his own piece of lyrium. IT is part of HIM, HE is not part of IT. (Yikes, I am starting to sound like Dagna, I apologize :-D). He does not need to consume it in large doses, in order to stay in touch with it (or more specifically, to stay in touch with the power lyrium provides), unlike Templars. That makes him his own person, uninfluenced by "the song", even though his strong opinions on mages and blood magic might be nurtured by his markings. I did not think about it this way, so thank you for clearing that up for me. I also like your suggestion, that his powers kinda hint the potential future of warriors. When I think about it - in DAI, the abilities of warriors and rogues already feel a lot more flashy than they used to. There seems to be some progress from mundane form of combat to more magical form, definitely. Having a new kind of abomination - someone with magical abilities without actually being a mage, who still maintains his free will and who is not possesed by a spirit nor hearing any maddening "song" - it sounds awesome. :-) Maybe we will indeed see more of that, since the next game should take place in Tevinter. Danarius could not have been the only magister experimenting with lyrium this way.
Incubafan87 They encouraged this kind of concept with the Seekers - aka rare but technically more powerful and useful than Templars. Templars really (at least most of the existing form) are weaksauce for several reasons compared to what they could be. Lyrium is alive and it probably animates everything. I would not even be surprised if all of Thedas is but an expanded derivative of whatever lyrium is. Or something. (or given the nature of the Fade, vice versa; yay different perspectives) Fenris is I suppose like.. a humanoid semi-Titan. Semi because it isn't his blood flowing, just his skin. Titan because in at least some ways he is one with the lyrium somehow (would love to learn about the process). This could mean that maybe with exposure to certain things he might be mind-controlled, but so far, I'd say he's almost completely his own person, though like we said, he could be nudged into 'anti- free magic/free mage' direction. Indeed, warrior and rogue combat was much more flashy than before, even if slower than DA2. Some of this feels inappropriate (why so many backflips? why exaggerate some of these moves? why some attacks looking close to magic?) but the bright side is that this might be Bioware's practice for the next game where everyone could be made that little more magical and Bioware will need the animations and effects for that.
Imagine if in the next dragon age, they bring back all the old main characters to do one last thing. Meaning the warden hawke and the inquisitor. Plus the new main character. To like save the world. Would be cool
The warden could be dead, as Hawke. And I dont think the Inquisitor will live much longer. The anchor, will one day destroy him/her. I dont think that cutting her/his arm was a solution. Corypheus once said " it cannot be removed"
it was just a thought tho. However i dont think that the inquisitor will die. Solas said that the only way for the inquisitor to live was by getting rid of the arm. And so they did, and the inquisitor vill keep on living. Most unlikely that he or she will die by the anchor when it was cut off.
Just what I think, but it would be super cool to see my warden again. I only hope that if they appear, bioware dont fore you to decide who lives and who dies.
Hi Ashe, What do you think of the idea that the reason why ancient Tevinter was so into blood magic was that lyrium was not available for them to use because all lyrium used to be tainted red? Some speculate that the darkspawn taint was not created to punish the Magisters but simply released from the Golden City, but what if the taint only existed in lyrium before the Magisters pulled it into themselves when the Old Gods manipulated them into using blood magic to cleanse lyrium to serve as their power source in their attempt to conquer the Golden City? The reason the darkspawn first appeared in the Depp Roads is that that is where the Old Gods told the Magisters to go to do their seremony, since that was where all lyrium (Titans' blood) was. The taint was then blasted into the Fade when the Magisters entered the Golden City in the flesh. This would mean that the Old Gods would all have to be agents of the Titans. Maybe Solas Knows so much about the taint because it was a weapon they (the Evanuris) created to destroy the Titans, that interrupted their ability to control their slaves? It would make sense that the Old Gods were the enemy that the Elven Gods were diefied for defeating if they were attempting to turn people into thralls of the Titans.
I agree with your theory but I'd also like to add something. In inquisition, when asked about humans Solas says something like imagine a great horde beating drums and singing in "songs" never heard before. Also, when magisters (ancient human empire) entered the black city they corrupted it and the blight was born. So what if solas doesn't actually want to destroy the titans so much as he needs to because their infected with this foreign "song". what if each song represents the consciousness of a race and humans were the new kids on the block who's song infected the others. By creating the veil Solas probably isolated the problem like we do by chopping an infected leg. Hence the reason why he refers to varric and dwarves in such a way like a severed limb dying in a pool of their own blood. It's like humans created a magic virus.
Also, I was thinking, and this isn't directly tied to the video or necessarily backed up by any lore, but what if humans in the DA universe are the result of Elven genetic experimentation. It has been stated that humans picked up their magical abilities from remnants of the fallen Elven empire and it just seems weird that if the Fade and physical world were once one that they never would have encountered magic before meeting the Elves, unless the Fade was restricted to a single continent. Also, Bull proposes that the Qunari are the result of genetic experimentation, so it wouldn't be unheard of. So, maybe a group of Elves wanted to make slaves who weren't Elven. Sorry this comment is so long.
can you post a theory about the origin of humans in the back of my mind something tells me they were spirits once changed because of the creation of the veil the same way you can push cole to be more human even though he is a spirit
This is glorious. I love that the lore is so deep in this series. I really hope Mythall isnt one of the Titans agents. that would devastate me.... Flemeth/Mythall is my favorite character. I think she is cooler and more interesting if she is in control of herself and trying to take revenge for what happened to her.
Very interesting theory, although I'm still not sure one can make such a direct connection between red lyrium and the Blight, since the latter's origins are not totally clear. It's nonetheless really interesting what you said in the video.
:Sandal's diary begins in 9 : 41 , The very year where DA: I managed to kill Corypheus. to 9 : 42 , The inquisition's exalted council began in 9 : 44 O_O
I dont understand. If the veil keeps them down, alongside the DS corruption, what happens when Solas unravels or begins to unravel it? Start killing darkspawn? A rival hivemind? Start trying to hivemind everyone else? If these titans were around when the dwarves were st their more or less peak, why couldnt they find any evidence of their existence? Imall for the agents tho, leliana was an interestig one.
So when Mythal slayed the Titan, she inevitably became bound to their song. Did the Evanuris used blood magic to create the Blight as a disease to keep the titans contained?
Hi Ashe, I enjoyed your videos. From what you are saying and I might be simplifying it here is the "Titans" were here before the Elven Gods or the "Old Gods". And then someone poisoned the Titans? Then that could mean that the Titans have different factions to them. Blighted Titans which is trying to take over all of Thedas. And the clean or unblighted Titans is trying to heal it in some way. hmmm my mind might explode on all the different possiblities going on here.
+sharcardenas63 Possibly, yeah. Blighted Titans may have the intent akin to being an Uber Corypheus. Resisting the control of the 'Blue', but at what physical cost? Pure Titans may appropriately oppose whatever is the Blight, but the price of aligning with them may be your will. Both minimize what we may call our humanity. The Evenuris and Forgotten Ones may be weaker but potentially more scheming versions of Titans. Then we can draw this all down to the Templar and Mage conflict, Spirit and Demon... what's the opposite to Darkspawn? I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see - Awakening may have gotten that ball rolling with the concept of free willed Darkspawn (still of the Blight though, just less compelled into frenzy/war), but what next? HoF is on to 'cure the Blight'... And of course during all of this, there is the Green ;)
The theory is interesting but I wouldn't go as far as to say no one else can stop the Titans, depending on the interpretation of the player the Maker would be a threat to them acting through his followers. (Like Leliana for instance)
All this talk of Titans makes me think of Greek mythology. Didnt the Greek gods battle them and lock them in Tartarus? I also read the gods were the Titans children, which reminds be of the dwarves a bit. It might be smart to look there for clues where this story goes. Also Red Lyrium grows in living people so maybe it uses blood to grow. Some sort of blood magic perhaps? Blood magic can block or weaken your connection to the fade and lyrium can both block (templars) and strenghten it.
This is a really interesting theory, but I'm not sure that Solas's plan to remove the Veil would make defeating the Titan's easier. Lyrium is used to strengthen a mage's connection to the Fade, and Lyrium is suggested to be Titan's blood or essence. So, wouldn't reconnecting the Fade to the physical world just make Titan's more powerful, since their blood has such a strong connection to the Fade.
Considering the Titan was extremely upset with the Veil almost tearing at the hand of Corypheus, I think a catastrophic event like the Veil being torn down would absolutely mess up the Titan. Well, one or some of them are already messed up per the Blight. I think big scale events like those are the only time the Titans are vulnerable.
I will not kill Leliana just to make her an agent of the Titans. Titans on one side, elves godkings on another and the third player the Blight. I think I understand what they say, We will never prove the Maker exist or not, but Andraste is a different entity entirely. She will be the fourth player and we will have a fatal four-way for Thedas.
Just discovered this channel, but I was thinking since the blight is a song and the lyrium sings maybe the Titans are the source of the blight, or more precisely their corrupted blood. I'm thinking that the ancient elves made a poison or a curse to kill the titans but something went wrong, they may have sent the weakened titans in the deep and cut the dwarves connection to magic to prevent their minds from being corrupted and solas eventually used this weapon or something similar to defeat the other eleven gods and trap them in the golden city. Eventually the magister came upon this corruption and made the blight song heard once more to the world. Also with lyrium confirmed as Titan blood, this means that all magic in Thedas is blood magic, that's a very ASOIF way of depicting magic, sacrifices must be made to make it work. EDIT: Also, speaking of songs *tinfoil hat on* the CHANTry kinda starts to look suspicious to me, maybe the Maker is the/a Titan, I mean Titans litteraly shaped land as in *made* the land as it is in the present. *tinfoil hat off* EDIT 2: This story of elven gods killing Titans for their religion to get assimilated into the imperium pantheon to then get one upped by a prophet backed by a monotheist god really mirrors what happened to the Greek pantheon in reality.
I'm not 100% sure the Titans are absolutely a threat (unless there is a red one). The idea about them wanting to take control of all people through a hive mind is interesting though. However, wouldn't that be like the Sha-brytol? Valta kind of implied that they turned themselves into what they were and the Titian didn't ask them to do so. So if the Titians want everyone to be under their control, why does it seem like they kind of reject the Sha-brytol who seem to be the one ones still devoted to them (even in a CRAZY cult-ish kind of way)? What I'd like to know is how the blight in red lyrim and the blight in darkspawn is different. Also, how did the blight come to be in the first place? It seems to be some kind of combo of the red lyrim and the magisters going to the Black City. But the details still aren't all together. :/
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Solas' tearing down the Veil bring back all the magic? Wouldn't this in turn strengthen the Titans? Is it not possible that Fen'Harel is himself, if unknowingly, another agent of the Titans?
Excellent theory Ashe but I do have to ask for your opinion on a theory I myself have had for quite sometime based on the Implication I took from the end of the Descent & Sola's fears with the end of the Blights in general. I believe The Forgotten Ones are the Titans deadliest & most fanatical "Agents" locked away long ago by the The Evanuris, leaving Mythal's elite guards whom in this case would be the Old Gods to be the Jailers of The Forgotten Ones so they never escape, and when the darkspawn corrupt them & Wardens kill them, they would be free to carry their Masters will once again in full force since the Old Gods serve not only as Jailers but also Keys to their cells, and once killed the prison they are in is ever more closer to being opened what do you think Ashe? Do you think I may be right or am I overthinking it?
Now I'm certifiably confused, before it was just an unofficial sort of vague confusion. Best response, just kill them all. So where/how exactly do the old Tevinter Magisters and Andraste fit into this epic struggle if you were to overthink this?
If this is true then how and why have the darkspawn and the blight been able to halt the power of the titans for so long, was the blight a pure accident that the titans didnt forsee getting in their way or was it designed as a harsh but necessary action to stop them. We were always led to believe that the veil was created by the maker to protect mortals from demons, but now we discover it was a harsh but necessary creation to stop a handful of power mad elves from destroying the world
+thedarknesscallingme what if the Architect and The Warden are the true hero's think the Architect freed the Darkspawn from the influence of any one and at the least the ArchDemon and the Warden is trying to end the Calling. since the ArchDemon and Darkspawn mages can pull from something other then the Fade and everything at least in part living can be affected by the blight -red lerium--. I think Shale will be important because her soul was transferred to a golem and seems to not be affected by the blight.
Where do you think The Maker fits into all of this? I personally think The Maker is not real or he was a Titan. You even said in this video that the Titans are influencing the world and they shaped Thedas. Maybe this is why the Shaperate doesn't want a Chantry in Orzammar and all recordings wear erased. Andraste was not "Divine" but was able to hear the Titan's song through lyrium (possibly the corrupted Titan). We all know how powerful of an influence lyrium was in the Temple of Sacred Ashes. Solas more than likely witnessed Andraste through the Fade and still doesn't have any use for that story at all. What do you think?
Actually, the more I think about this theory, the more I like it. Maybe the "Old Gods" never went into the Fade at all or they used the Fade to enter a Titan. This is when the Titan was corrupted and why red lyrium, the Darkspawn and the Archdemons come from underground. Hence the reason "The Maker turned his back" on people.
wow missed this entirly on my run through. Scary thought that there are worse things out there then the egg wanting to form the World in such a fashion.
And all of this wonderful, wonderful lore being held up by a game with such terrible AI that everyone either plays it on Casual or specs a Knight Enchanter and holds down the Spirit Blade button for hundreds of hours. Thrilling stuff.
Ashe | Lady Insanity You're welcome. You are after all an integral part of the Dragon Age fandom as a lot of people respect your work and your devotion to the lore and its creators. Thank you for all your patience and hard works.
Julian Lawson The elves destroying the titans were depicted in Tresspasser I believe. We know Mythal Solo'd the titan there in tresspasser. That's what the Lyrium Mine/factory was for the dead titan. Also the Evanuris were said to have killed or imprisoned the rest
Does this mean that we've doomed the world by killing gods (hakkon) all the great dragons, dragons in general, and the archdemons? if the Architect was freed from the song, would he not know something else is at play?
Whoa!Based on your theories Ash,Titans sound like Dragon Age version of Mass Effect Reaper indoctrination.Maybe not that bad,but pretty close.No way that's a good thing however you look at it.Then again,there is always a chance that Bioware will in Dragon Age 4(I assume DAI sold well enough to continue the franchise someday),introduce something far worse in to the lore.
Alright so you basically spoiled the next game where we move away from the 'elven' threat and into the 'dwarven' threat (where DAI moved away from the 'human' threat and into the 'elven' threat). Then I guess I could broadly imagine DA5 moving from the Titans and into something more cosmically existential, then the DA6 finale. And of course there isn't just Red and Blue here. DAI has the engineered Green (thanks Solas) and there could be more of importance.
*mass effect 2 log voice* Indoctrination is- oh wrong game. umm fuck I can already see the colour options for the finale, 1. have everyone listen to the Titans song thus all being one mind now - blue choice, 2. carry on fighting against the blight while resealing the Titans - red, 3. or create a new form of mind affecting lyrium which forces all to be an individual and now unaffected by the previous forms of Lyrium red and unawakened blue (this would also affect the Titans thus making infighting amongst themselves some pissed some not.) and giving a united elf human everything else army a chance to fight against the still mean Titans - green. We need a herder of some sort for the 3rd army choice a shepherd perhaps?
+wizard “WiZaRDieZ” iez All Bioware games enjoy mind control themes. KOTOR for sure. Jade Empire I think. And ME1 and DAO both had it (indoctrination, enthrallment, tranquil, blood magic). The Green is shown in its worst form in DAI through the Nightmare Demon's Rift invasion, but it need not be always so dangerous or evil. We'll see.
+Malcolm Swoboda I've never had a problem with the theme it was more a joke on lyrium colours and mass effect 3's perfect ending. But now that you mention yeah I might have a problem with the constant mind altering theme I feel bioware should stop making the problem some device the villain has that can make every other his bitch, what happened to the iron fist dictator that demanded servitude not a massive space squid that slowly mind fucks with music, and why is it always music? Reapers had it and nowTitans?! I love and throw money at these games btw that's why can bitch about them.
wizard iez I think it is symbolic for the possible forces that drive us IRL. Order and Chaos and more. It forces the issue and has us say where we stand.
The Nug King will save us.
The Biotic God too XDXD.
Nuggets!
Eleven gods to the left of me. Titans to the right. Here I am, stuck in the middle with Ashe to guide me.
It's funny that in Dragon Age Series there are people/creatures that seem to talk completely unsignificant non-senses, however as you analyze the whole game and speculate what will happen next, you discover that all these non-senses might be the key to understanding everything.
The vid was really interesting. The comments under the vid too. ^^
this definitely explains why solas hates grey wardens so much (not so much the individual grey wardens but rather the very notion of the grey wardens, an army committed to fighting the blight). by trying to "cure" the blight and completely eradicate it they'd be unwittingly freeing the titans.
throughout the series we've only seen the bad side of the blight, and indeed i never would have guessed that there was a positive side to it! (ie. keeping the titans in check) this made solas' opinion of the grey wardens very confusing at first - why would he be so vehemently against fighting evil? (his explanation of "i don't like how they would go to any lengths to fight the blight" just didn't jive for me. he's obviously someone who believes that the ends justify the means) but this theory, if i understood it correctly, resolves that issue - he's obviously against the grey wardens accidentally freeing the titans. great theory!
I like to think of the Titans as similar to the Colossi in Shadow of the Colossus. Peaceful beings, perceived as a Threat through their sheer Size. Abused and hurt by Mortals, especially the Evanuris, wanting to fuel their own Magic through their Blood. I would not think of them as evil, but as self-preserving. They don't want to get blighted (because who wants to get blighted) and they want to wake up from whatever slumber they are in. But their Waking would mean the end of Thedas as we know it, due to their very Nature as - basically - the Foundations of the very World. ... or I am interpreting Way too much because I really liked Shadow of the Colossus.
+iona2225 So I didn't get into this because I wanted to establish the theory first, but I think Solas knows how powerful the Titans are. He even hints that he's a bit jealous of it (in his conversations with Varric). I'm starting to think that Solas would shape reality in a sense that he'd get rid of the Titans. There's no proper way of doing that right now, with the physical world and the metaphysical world separated. Once the collision between realms occurs, there will be people who die and then survive. Solas wants to make sure that there's freedom of mind, whatever the cost. The Evanuris and Titans are not part of that future.
And Titans go where they will. And there are multiple ones. Would anyone honestly be sure that they were in a Titan? Also, there are those who saw the Titan and then completely forgot all about it the next day (one of the soldiers in Descent DLC). They don't stay stationary enough for people to remember, and it seems even being near one would make you forget.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity They can make people forget them? I think it's time to ask Cole some more questions...
+Ashe | Lady Insanity
This theory is groundbreaking IF the next DA game shows ur theory as truth!!!!
I dont think either r right but IF i had to pick. I would side with the Titans because they mold the earth like Tectonic plates recycle earth crust in reality. They r critical to the environment as much as they r a natural disasters like Earthquakes. Evanuris which Solas wants to release from the Veil WILL kill ALL living life on the SURFACES in the process IF Solas cant restore his people without burning the surface of Thedas. They dont seem to give damn about other races but their tribe. This “free” will is more like Fee to live temporally until fade burn all non-dalish societies. If Thedas culture produces better tech by the we need pick sides between Evanuris or Titians. I would side with the Titans because Tech will be the KEY to bend the Titans to the Surfaces will.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity Great theory! Also makes sense this way, why Solas was so angry in decent dlc, especially in the final scene with Valta :)
+Abelis Nadas I never saw Solas say anything when I did the Decent DLC and he was in my party. grrr..
+Ashe | Lady Insanity The titans and the song kinda remind me of the reapers and indoctrination
Well... that's my mind blown. I've been pondering just what purpose the introduction of the Titans could serve in the long run and this is as good a theory as any. The "Whispers written in Red Lyrium" makes a lot more sense now.
I wonder if in a future game we'll presented with a choice like this.
1. Allow the veil to be destroyed and let the Evanuris fight the Titans.
2. Maintain the veil and deal with Titans ourselves.
+LostMercenary99 So, it's like Solas is doing a good thing here. No way anyone can take on the Titans alone. The Evanuris will be needed to defeat them, I'm thinking. He's probably pitting them against one another, just like in the old tales of Fen'Harel the Dalish believe in. He sides with both opposing god factions and then ends up defying both of them, as well.
Yet we also know how the Taint started- when the Black City was entered physically, after Solas created the Veil- but what do Titans have to do with that? Why are Titans so closely related to the Taint even though it began with something related more to Solas than them?
I think there is reason to belive that there is more a reason than simply the Taint as to why the Titans sleep- and how the Taint can end. It seems to me that the Titans are deeply connected to how Solas created the Veil, explaining how the Titans are connected to the Taint- because the Taint is connected to the Veil. This also gives reason to why it seems the only material to consistently defy the existance of the Veil is Lyrium- something that exists both in the physical world and the fade. It would not suprise me if the very act of tearing down the Veil led to the Titan's return. I also believe that Solas knows and has a plan for this- for them to fight the false gods, locking them in combat and removing two birds with one stone.
And, if they should be completely destroyed, what would happen to the world and the fade? They seem more a core part of it than we imagine, something deeply related to the basic functioning of the fade as well as the material plane- it may have consequences beyond any imagination.
Well, if this is true, then I might know what Solas plans for the evanuris is when he tear down the veil, I think he will awaken the Titans at the same time, and the Titans will recognize the evanuris that defeated them and thus they will attack them.
I other words, I think he plans to have them fight til they are too weak so that he can kill them himself
Son of a...Ashe: I think you're right...all this time: Our heroes have been USED...
Can't remember where I heard it or read it. But Solas was once able to travel between the Evanuris and the Forgotten ones freely. If the Forgotten ones were titans... Are the Titans the Fade, being able to shape and bend things at will. They were able to 'shape the stone'. Did Solas somehow manage to...disconnect the Titans from their being? I have to wonder how he knew how to create the Veil, could it be the Titans were hoping that creating the veil would take away their 'diseased' blood? Could it be that the disease was created by the Evanuris in hopes to 'end the song'? Is it possible Solas was once a part of them - a spirit? - that became 'more human' in order to establish a connection. Like an ambassador of sorts. He could have befriended some of them, Mythal being the obvious one now. Yet when she was killed he banished them all away?
Blah. Now I'm overthinking. I'm not even looking at codex's and such. I want to get the World of Thedas books but I need to get paid first.
I think Solas is the dangerous one, the veil is what could have isolated the Titans. Tearing the veil may strengthen them, perhaps it is purposeful or not on Solas's part. But honestly Thedas has adapted with both the Evanuris and the Titans. Unleashing both is just dangerous.
+ScifiSOS The Forgotten Ones are more likely to be elvan that traveled the forbidden realms (of the Fade, Thedas, etc) and struck back at the supposed authority of the Evanuris with any means possible. Think extreme Templar vs Mage conflict. Order vs Chaos. The Forbidden Ones may have welcomed support, but never demanded complete worship. Still worshiped, but more likely for the sake of their deeds in war (again Titans?) and resistance to the Evanuris. Now, there are hints that they're locked in the Abyss of the Beyond/Fade, with some sort of demonic connection (potentially a connection to the Forbidden Ones that taught blood magic to the Tevinter). Solas was one single one of the possible combined force of the Evanuris and Forgotten Ones against the Titans, and he had his own agenda after seeing the fight of Order vs Chaos they were waging and threatening the world with. The Evanuris were likely on the mage --> spirit side while Forgotten Ones were likely on the mage --> demon side with Solas keeping qualities of both ('trickster') and also in his way, the most connection to the common elves. He indeed may have become the most technically (though not overtly) powerful mage-god but yes, also become more lower (I can't say 'human' or 'mortal' but you get the point) and worked to sabotage both god sides. Mythal may have been the one Evanuris he considered his friend and he may have sympathized with their level of spiritual purity compared to the Forbidden Ones, and I'd be willing that he at least sympathized with the cause of the Forbidden Ones more but utterly disapproved of their (demonic-ish) methods. But in the end he was of his own, splitting from and betraying the Creators and backstabbing and 'killing' the Forbidden Ones (it would effectively be a kind of death to be trapped in the Void). This world may be a dead one to Solas, but the Veil actually provided the map to relatively free willed mortals to take control, even as the 'magic returns'. Solas only needs to realize this.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity
it's a very good theory but i don't think the Whispers in the red lyrium is the titans. i think it's the Evanuris trapped in the fade
There was something Cole says about the Templars that i found interesting, when asked how a Templar feels he says something along the lines of "They listen to an old song and it blocks out all others and through that blocks out all magic."
i think that is the song of the titans, although they can probably only vaguely sense it.
BUT If you then ask about Red Lyrium Templars he says something along the lines of "They are dark they hear a different song, The Song Behind the Door Old Whispers Want Open." it think he's referring to the Evanuris, who for all we know are still trapped in the fade.
on the subject of the fade.... with all we have learned in DA:I and even more so in Trespasser, doesn't that bring the nature of the Black City into question? my personal theory about it is that the black city is the remnants of Arlathan. think about it,
in theodosian history they say that arlathan was cast into the sea by tevinter. but as we have learned (and as Egg has said) many of the tales of tevinters involvment in the fall of Elvhenan are made up by tevinter after the elves had already fallen. i think that when Egg´Harel created the veil Arlathan was also ripped from the physical world, and that that is what the Black City is, the ruins of Arlathan, and the prison of the Evanuris. they may even have created the blight by tricking Corypheus and his cohorts into entering their prison and then casting them out back onto Thedas when they had the Blight
Update: two things
1) if this theory holds ground, what does that mean for the Old Gods? because that would implicate that the Evanuris used Dumat to trick Corypheus
2) with all the new lore about the relationship between the ancient elves and dwarfs, it makes me question the red lyrium artifact we found in the primeval thaig, because it does look suspiciously much like the end-credits scene where Mythal gives her powers to Egg'Harel. but how and why was it there?
HOLY FUCK SPREAD UR GENIUS
+Saskia Senpai That would make alot of Sense 2 since Cory tried 2 tear down the Veil and thus breaking the Evanuris free. I guess we will see. Maybe there is truth in both teories. Like the Evanuris wanting to get everyone under their controle by using the red Lyrium Titan or something along the Line.
+Saskia Senpai As far as Cole's quotes, I still think it's the difference between a normal titan and a blighted Titan. Of course, this also includes the Evanuris because they are the ones stuck behind the Veil, but at the same time, the Evanuris aren't capable of the Song. They only have their whispers, whereas in the lyrium, you hear the songs. That could also set an example that oh, the Evanuris are behind that song, but at the same time, there were screams in the red lyrium that were only temporarily calmed and soothed with the magic that the Venatori did in the (I think) Hissing Wastes.
Also, there are some newer quotes from Cole in Trespasser that say all the songs fit together. Even the angry ones.
And I'm starting to think that the Black City may be Arlathan as well, or it could simply be the source of the corruption that is as big as a city. Like a Titan. It's a bit gross, but I think the Black City may be a Titan.
As far as your quesitons
1) The spread of the Blight through the human magisters I feel was just spreading its influence past the Elves. The humans were all too willing to tap into what the Elves had (as Abelas said, was like carrion feasting). The magisters were desperate for anything that'd continue their religion.
2) It seemed locked away for years near a vault and other treasures. I'd say it was locked away. The people there died and the spirits/demons started to feed. It may have been abandoned because of the Blight's prolonged influence.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity OH MY GOSH, senpai noticed me
let me just get myself together again. I agree that your theory about the titans has a lot of evidence, and it's a good and plausible theory, i guess we'll have to see where bioware decides to go with it
also the 2nd question was not so much about what happened in the primeval thaig, but why the red lyrium idol was there, and why it looks so much like Egg'Harel and Mythal's reunion
also loved the bit about sandal, the magic solas used really does look eerily similar to what sandal did to the ogre. which raises a lot of questions about what exactly sandal is
+Ashe | Lady Insanity The one from Cole , do you mean the one when you find the red Lyrium in the Qunari base ? I thought that was about the Qunari and the dragonblood speaking to them lol gotta listen to it again :)
Ugh Ashe, your theories are sooo damn good and I know almost any possible theory and I DIDN'T EVEN FINISH IT yet. Keep that good work up c:
I think that the evanuris created the blight to kill the titans. This would explain why Flemeth guides those who oppose the blight. She doesn't want the evanuris to win even though it would mean the titans win. She sees the titans as the lesser of two evils.
I wonder if bioware had its own story but then fan theories were better so they went with those xD
I'm both excited and annoyed by this prospect.
On one hands, Dragon Age is working up to this major epic that may well rival some of the greatest Epics of our time.
An the other hand, that epic seems to be taking the all too familiar route of humans being the only ones that offer an option with minimal negatives. If Solas succeeds the elves will be restored. If the Titans succeed all will be under their will.
I have no doubts something with the Great Dragons and the Kossith will be involved at some point, maybe even the Fex. And there are the Intelligent Darkspawn to take into account, the Architect and his Ilk.
This seems to be turning into a major epic, and if Bioware isn't careful they can really fuck it up.
(We have found the dreams again). - is specifically about the Lyrium which is found in the fade. Which means that the Titans have entered through the veil.
When you think of it, the Titans used to be part of the fade intrinsically alongside everything else, and the Fade removed their ability to shape the stone.
It may also be why Dwarves cannot dream.
Alternatively, the Titans themselves may be the first (stone) that has a spirit. The titans are likely the Stone's first children. If Dwarves, Nugs and many beasts came from the stone (As a gift to Elgar'nan - the land brought forth great birds and beasts of sky and forest).
So what would the Evanuris be? - Where the sun touched the earth is the sky/air? The surface of the earth is where the sun touches the earth. So the first consciousness? So the Evanuris would be either powerful entities that embued the earth (rests in it)? The creatures the comes from the earth (alongside the plants) are all these entities (whether its Titans or Evanuris or one in the same) they can only exist through other living creatures.
There is also the Avvar mythos that matches up interestingly with some of the Elven mythos; Korth the mountain father (matches Elgar'nan). Korth sealed his heart. Elgar'nan sealed the sun into the depths of the earth. Both acts created mountains.
Korth also ruled alongside Lady of the Skies.(Mythal) and it is one of her agents (or herself)- the Ptarmigan who found his heart in the mountains.
If the sealing of his heart (or the sun), may have been resolved in the same way as the following;
"Hail Mythal, adjudicator and savior! She has struck down the pillars of the earth and rendered their demesne unto the People! Praise her name forever!"
Sounds pretty much like having delt a blow to the mountain/or returning something to the people/living.
Sindri Sky-Breaker, boldest of the heroes of old, succeeded in climbing to the summit and stood in the Hall of the Mountain-Father in the flesh. Sounds like Falon'din (Proud and ambitious).
Dirthamen sounds like Sigfrost. The Great Bear . Its said Dirthamen gave his secrets to many animals, only the bear kept theirs. Its also said Dirthamen had a city in the mountains.
Imhar = Fen'harel?
The trickster of the Avvar pantheon, Imhar is a slight man who must rely on his quick tongue instead of strength. Avvars enjoy tales of Imhar's jests and mockery, perhaps the most popular of which is that of Imhar and an evil seductress. She lured him into facing her unarmed, then faced him with an army of demons. Playing the coward, Imhar lead them on a merry chase through a mountain pass. (Could this be Andruil in the tale of how Fen'harel outwitted her and Anaris-the Forgotten one?)
If it turns out to be true you deserve the biggest award reading 'I CALLED IT'. Thanks for that awesome video! ^^
+Weibspille
Trespasser proved a lot of her theory on Solas was right.
It also makes sense that Mythal would need Solas to tier down the veil, as she would not be allowed to do it herself.
First the Reapers, then the Sith Empire, then Xarnaga from Starcraft, now this. I'm noticing a trend here.
+Anzu Wyliei Yeeeeeeessssszzzzzz >:D
+Anzu Wyliei Iä! Iä! ******* fhtagn!
Well bioware did make both mass effect and dragon age, both involve dark forces influenceing and corrupting people, I think it is cool how they are so similar and yet so different.
your new Theory is rly something to think about ! I was sitting in front of the Deep Roads Lore in Trespasser and was wondering how powerful a Titan must be, if all the superpower Elves only locked them away instead of killing them off.
Magic seems a way to corrupt Lyrium as Solas states when you first get to the Breech so it may be possible that the Elves corrupted them indeed.
"Alas, so long as the music plays we dance." That line always bugged me.
Thanks for sharing your theory! So many different directions for DA4 to go, I can't help but get excited.
So, the Titans are Reapers?
+Inquisitor Adaar They are everywhere :D
+Inquisitor Adaar Could you imagine Mass Effect was in the same world as DA, just in a very, very distant future? :D I got that idea, when I first heard someone in ME screaming "Oh, Maker" x) It's insane.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity Following your thoughts, i would consider also Andraste as an Agent of the Titans. Because she clearly heard a song from a beeing called "Maker".She is also bound to her purpose,to bring the Chant into the World. Also the control from the Chantry over Thedas could be seen as some form of "Pre-Hive-Mind".Maybe she was one of the first Agents of the Titans but they where to weak to controll the events full. In the Chantry the belief is, that the MAKER SHAPED THE WOLRD. Couldn't the Maker be something like the Will of the Titans transcended into something a human could understand and relate to ?
+Lesson Learned I'm of the theory that Andraste was a vessel for Mythal, and Shartan was Solas. He worked with Mythal to free Elven slaves from the Imperium and helped give the elves their homeland of the Dales. For whatever reason he went back into Uthenera and awoke again before the events of Inquisition.
This Theory is familiar to me.But I'm not much into it, because of the Solas-Part.
From what we know of Solas he earned his title from freeing slaves from corrupt Mage overlords. It seems logical he would fight with Tevinter who had basically become another Arlathan.; a ruling elite of would be mage- gods with a underling class of elven slaves.
I just thought of this what if a titan was the maker
Okay another thought and titans are the true forgotten ones as they hibernate below the earth
But the Titan's where locked up, so how could one be the maker. I actually always wonder if the maker was some kind of demon or spirt. A spirt of compassion maybe.
Random thing, I always bound my Inquisitor to Mythal on the well just because I don't want to see Morrigan being used by her again.
+Haris Jablan Well that basically means your inquisitor is bound to solas now.
+Haris Jablan
Both in and out of character I couldn't bear for my Inqy to bound to someone else's will - sorry Morrigan but you did ask for it.
+Haris Jablan I always drink from the well! It's usefull in Trespasser and i think it will be usefull in the future game (games?). If you ask Flemeth/Mythal if you are her servant now she laughs and says "Is that how you see yourself? A servant? I have no commands for you. Not yet." and i don't think Mythal is truly gone. She transfers something (part of her?) into the Eluvian before Solas kills Flemeth. The next game will be interesting. :)
+HandsomeRanger Bound to the Dread Wolf... I like it!
Maybe the blight is a result of an angry Titan who wishes to dominate the other Titans or to fight off the elves. Who bent the song into a more twisted manor in order to dominate.
Crap, one evil Titan I never thought about that. Plus they're the pillars of the world. If we kill them there's no telling what could happen .
SO glad these videos are back!
No, I don't buy it. There are a lot of other factors involved. Titans are only a part.
Here's a link to my thread, which is ordered and numbered for convenience and ease of navigation if you want a detailed analysis of my thoughts along with codices and screenshots to back up my theories (instead of reading this long ass post)
forum.bioware.com/topic/563161-major-spoilers-trespasser-edit-ancient-accumulated-lore-theories-discussions-20/
They are a force of balance. The Fade and the unchanging world. I
believe the Titans moved around and "shaped" the world in order to
compensate for the changes being made by the Evanuris and Elvhen People
who took form and claimed the earth as their right.
This brought the Titans to their attention, which is why they started
hunting them and learned of lyrium and it's enhancing qualities. I
don't believe Mythal is an agent of the Titans either, her plans revolve
around what was wrought by the Evanuris and what Solas plans to do.
I believe the veil is what brought the Titans into a dormant state.
Without The Fade interacting with the unchanging world, their role as
Shapers of the stone and as keepers of balance isn't needed. They are
cut off from their purpose as well as the source of their consciousness.
This is why they haven't created anymore Dwarves and most likely why
the Sha-Brytol are so lost and confused. The fact that the breach is
what caused the Titan to "panic" ends credence to this train of thought.
The Elvhen people were products of The Fade and were spirits before they found a way to take form.
Given the codex Old Elven Writing: "Their workers scurry, witless,
soulless, this death will be a mercy" we know how the Elvhen people
regarded the Dwarves, they pitied them and didn't even consider them
"real" people. Their views basically reflected Solas' perceptions of
modern Thedosians. They felled Titans before the veil. I doubt they (The
Titans) held any sway over Solas or any of the ancient Elvhen.
As for Sandal, he very well could have been, or is connected to a
Titan. As for "not enchantment" i.e. "magic", it rather seemed to be a
frost spell, "Cone of Frost" to be precise, rather than him turning the
ogre to stone like Solas did Qunari, if you watch carefully.
Speaking of Qunari, we still don't know their circumstances, though
it's implied they are a mixed race infused with bred with Dragon blood
who were a mistake. It's implied the Kossith, whether a culture or an
actual race, were also "horned" and I believe they served as slaves
during the Tevinter Imperium when they left from the east, 15 years
before the Magisters reached the Golden City. I think they were used as
blood sacrifices and slaves to fuel powerful blood magic (as we know
dragon blood is especially powerful).
We also have no clue what caused the blight in the first place, only
hints that it was due to the Evanuris unleashing something primordial is
their greed. The Forgotten Ones are also another factor that has yet to
come into play.
from what we understand of Geldauran's claim, they are not Titans,
nor are they agents of the Titans. They could be however, involved in
having unleashed, created or harnessed the blight.
Besides, if it was that simple the series wouldn't have much of a
shelf life in my opinion, meaning, I would lose interest in the lore if
this was the case. The song from lyrium is said to be different than the
calling of the Old Gods, which is perpetuated by the blight, not red
lyrium, meaning the blight itself is of a separate nature.
The Black city is said to corrupt spirits with the taint who wander
to close to it, meaning it is a sickness of the soul also made physical
when it hitched a ride on the Magisters once they breach the Golden
City. This is why Red Lyrium i.e. blighted lyrium can infect people
"psychologically" simply if someone gets near it compared to normal
lyrium, where its effects on the psyche require "physical" contact.
Also, Dwarves were created by the Titans and once held a symbiotic
relationship with them as Valta does, this is why Dwarves still have a
lingering connection, like whispers of something once lost, the stone
sense.
Other races can only hear the song when handling lyrium such as
Templars and mages. The song itself also seems to repel Darkspawn,
interfering with the calling.
In World of Thedas Vol. 2, it's also speculated that their are a lot
of suspicious things revolving around the world such as the Voshai,
mysterious traders from the west who apparently are led by Dwarves, who
apparently hold standing in their culture and are often seen as ship
captains. Then we have "Parladians" from the Boeric Islands, who could
or could not have magic specialists akin to the seers of Rivain that
specialize in concealment spells that can mask a whole islands
"location". The Tirashan to the West also holds many mysteries,
including Elves that seem to worship The Forgotten Ones. We have the
"sunless lands" to the north, described as a hellish wasteland of Ice
and snow home to Chasind exiles which may or may not have formed their
own tribes.
To the East, the supposed Kossith/Qunari homeland of which we know
next to nothing. It is said many who ventured forth have disappeared,
some due to immense sea creatures, others due to what they found on the
mainland. Drakon's Prophecy seems to imply a war was fought there with
tooth and claw, sword and bow, brethren who after a time, could not be
distinguished from one another cursed, generation after generation.
Perhaps this was in relation to what happened with the Kossith and what
led to their "dragon blood". If the Inquisitor is Vashoth, Kieran will
either declare that their blood "doesn't belong" to the Inquisitor's
people and express his sorrow at what happened to the people, which
could also be in relation to what transpired in the East. The Par Vollen
Pyramids are yet another example of mysteries waiting to be explored
and explained.
All of this explain there are still many pieces of the puzzle left to
put together and the Titans are but a piece, not the frame which holds
it all together.
Hey, you still there? The link is dead. You got an alternative site to read this? :)
In a general speculation sense, I can see the known Darkspawn (Architect 'free willed' ones?) actually being an ALLY against what the Blue/Pure Titans could threaten Thedas with. Its one thing to be driven into demonic-ish frenzy, but even this berzerking is a boon when facing a gestalt hivemind that strips away individuality. I would not even be surprised if the next DA protagonist gets a power involving the Blight (not necessarily being a Grey Warden, but more).
May I just say that I really enjoy listening to you talk about Dragon Age.
"Alas! So long as the music plays, we dance." - Flemeth
Actualy, come to think of it, do you think that Leliana's vision may have been sent/caused by the Titans? It was the vision that gave her the impulse to go with the Warden afterall.
What a fascinating theory. I am quite intrigued. In the light of your revelations, I have to wonder about Fenris - I mean, he is covered in lyrium-infused markings, right? So what would that make him? Another agent? Yet he did not hear any song, could not foresee the future... or at least never mentioned anything like that. Hm, intriguing indeed.
+Incubafan87 Lyrium itself won't necessarily manipulate much until its connected to more lyrium, I think. His 'song' is at least largely his own. However, it could be that his specifically anti-mage (remember the closest magical power a mage has is their blood magic, even through they have the other magical potential, albeit helped/fueled by drinking lyrium potions) and anti-blood magic attitude is nurtured by the lyrium markings, just as Templars find it difficult to humanize themselves when controlling mages. Regardless, he has free will. The markings do bring Fenris closer to the blue (Titan? Evanuris? ..Maker? etc?) side of things and gives him the ability to phase through supposedly solid object and become a lyrium ghost. I wouldn't assume he's an agent, or if he is, its in one of the most indirect ways. I'd say he's at least almost totally his own person, but his powers lead up to what we start seeing in DAI. In some ways Fenris might be considered a Super Templar but only in certain ways and not to the point of hearing any song (his lyrium 'is his own' etched into him, not constantly ingested). In some ways I'd consider him like a mortal abomination (not in terms of demons/spirits, but Fade-like abilities). He's an example of how Warriors in future games could still become more 'magical' as the series gets more 'magical'. Fenris is connected to Lyrium which draws on the Fade(?). This much of a degree of separation results in a mortal that has magical abilities without actually being a 'mage' casting 'spells'. Valta is another sort of example of this phenomenon, but she is directly tied to a Titan, not just its 'blood' (lyrium). TLDR: I think he's his own person but often rejects and misunderstands the extent of his own abilities.
+Malcolm Swoboda Thank you for your thoughts on the matter, and allow me to say, that you raise some truly great points.
I agree with you, that Fenris still has his free will. Which is exactly why I wondered about his role in the first place. I could not grasp, how could he still maintain "himself". But you explained it quite nicely: "Lyrium itself will not necessarily manipulate much until its connected to more lyrium". Fenris owns his own piece of lyrium. IT is part of HIM, HE is not part of IT. (Yikes, I am starting to sound like Dagna, I apologize :-D). He does not need to consume it in large doses, in order to stay in touch with it (or more specifically, to stay in touch with the power lyrium provides), unlike Templars. That makes him his own person, uninfluenced by "the song", even though his strong opinions on mages and blood magic might be nurtured by his markings. I did not think about it this way, so thank you for clearing that up for me.
I also like your suggestion, that his powers kinda hint the potential future of warriors. When I think about it - in DAI, the abilities of warriors and rogues already feel a lot more flashy than they used to. There seems to be some progress from mundane form of combat to more magical form, definitely. Having a new kind of abomination - someone with magical abilities without actually being a mage, who still maintains his free will and who is not possesed by a spirit nor hearing any maddening "song" - it sounds awesome. :-)
Maybe we will indeed see more of that, since the next game should take place in Tevinter. Danarius could not have been the only magister experimenting with lyrium this way.
Incubafan87 They encouraged this kind of concept with the Seekers - aka rare but technically more powerful and useful than Templars. Templars really (at least most of the existing form) are weaksauce for several reasons compared to what they could be.
Lyrium is alive and it probably animates everything. I would not even be surprised if all of Thedas is but an expanded derivative of whatever lyrium is. Or something. (or given the nature of the Fade, vice versa; yay different perspectives)
Fenris is I suppose like.. a humanoid semi-Titan. Semi because it isn't his blood flowing, just his skin. Titan because in at least some ways he is one with the lyrium somehow (would love to learn about the process). This could mean that maybe with exposure to certain things he might be mind-controlled, but so far, I'd say he's almost completely his own person, though like we said, he could be nudged into 'anti- free magic/free mage' direction.
Indeed, warrior and rogue combat was much more flashy than before, even if slower than DA2. Some of this feels inappropriate (why so many backflips? why exaggerate some of these moves? why some attacks looking close to magic?) but the bright side is that this might be Bioware's practice for the next game where everyone could be made that little more magical and Bioware will need the animations and effects for that.
Imagine if in the next dragon age, they bring back all the old main characters to do one last thing. Meaning the warden hawke and the inquisitor. Plus the new main character. To like save the world. Would be cool
The warden could be dead, as Hawke. And I dont think the Inquisitor will live much longer. The anchor, will one day destroy him/her. I dont think that cutting her/his arm was a solution. Corypheus once said " it cannot be removed"
it was just a thought tho. However i dont think that the inquisitor will die. Solas said that the only way for the inquisitor to live was by getting rid of the arm. And so they did, and the inquisitor vill keep on living. Most unlikely that he or she will die by the anchor when it was cut off.
Just what I think, but it would be super cool to see my warden again. I only hope that if they appear, bioware dont fore you to decide who lives and who dies.
yea.. There was talk of a warden civil war,,might be something in the future.
Nick Salehi
That will be awesome if they included it into the next one
Hi Ashe, What do you think of the idea that the reason why ancient Tevinter was so into blood magic was that lyrium was not available for them to use because all lyrium used to be tainted red? Some speculate that the darkspawn taint was not created to punish the Magisters but simply released from the Golden City, but what if the taint only existed in lyrium before the Magisters pulled it into themselves when the Old Gods manipulated them into using blood magic to cleanse lyrium to serve as their power source in their attempt to conquer the Golden City? The reason the darkspawn first appeared in the Depp Roads is that that is where the Old Gods told the Magisters to go to do their seremony, since that was where all lyrium (Titans' blood) was. The taint was then blasted into the Fade when the Magisters entered the Golden City in the flesh. This would mean that the Old Gods would all have to be agents of the Titans. Maybe Solas Knows so much about the taint because it was a weapon they (the Evanuris) created to destroy the Titans, that interrupted their ability to control their slaves? It would make sense that the Old Gods were the enemy that the Elven Gods were diefied for defeating if they were attempting to turn people into thralls of the Titans.
I agree with your theory but I'd also like to add something. In inquisition, when asked about humans Solas says something like imagine a great horde beating drums and singing in "songs" never heard before. Also, when magisters (ancient human empire) entered the black city they corrupted it and the blight was born. So what if solas doesn't actually want to destroy the titans so much as he needs to because their infected with this foreign "song". what if each song represents the consciousness of a race and humans were the new kids on the block who's song infected the others. By creating the veil Solas probably isolated the problem like we do by chopping an infected leg. Hence the reason why he refers to varric and dwarves in such a way like a severed limb dying in a pool of their own blood. It's like humans created a magic virus.
I love your theories, Ashe! Awesome video!
I just found your channel, and I love these vids. Such interesting perspectives on the lore.
Also, I was thinking, and this isn't directly tied to the video or necessarily backed up by any lore, but what if humans in the DA universe are the result of Elven genetic experimentation. It has been stated that humans picked up their magical abilities from remnants of the fallen Elven empire and it just seems weird that if the Fade and physical world were once one that they never would have encountered magic before meeting the Elves, unless the Fade was restricted to a single continent. Also, Bull proposes that the Qunari are the result of genetic experimentation, so it wouldn't be unheard of. So, maybe a group of Elves wanted to make slaves who weren't Elven. Sorry this comment is so long.
I was skeptical when you first included Flemeth in this... But now it all makes sense; why she has been using agents all this time.
The song sounds like a familiar theme in Mass Effect...
can you post a theory about the origin of humans in the back of my mind something tells me they were spirits once changed because of the creation of the veil the same way you can push cole to be more human even though he is a spirit
Wow... will have to rewatch this when I'm not stoned.
This is glorious. I love that the lore is so deep in this series. I really hope Mythall isnt one of the Titans agents. that would devastate me.... Flemeth/Mythall is my favorite character. I think she is cooler and more interesting if she is in control of herself and trying to take revenge for what happened to her.
Very interesting theory, although I'm still not sure one can make such a direct connection between red lyrium and the Blight, since the latter's origins are not totally clear.
It's nonetheless really interesting what you said in the video.
This theory is very intriguing. With any luck bioware will listen to you and run with it.
:Sandal's diary begins in 9 : 41 , The very year where DA: I managed to kill Corypheus. to 9 : 42 , The inquisition's exalted council began in 9 : 44 O_O
Could the blight be some kind of curse the elves used in order to defeat the Titans ?
+Jonny Oliveira It would fit the themes yes. Though the idea of the blight probably goes even pre-Elves. Blight = Chaos.
...I think the future may revolve around physically tearing the veil to get enough power to stop the Titans. Or it could just be me.
I dont understand. If the veil keeps them down, alongside the DS corruption, what happens when Solas unravels or begins to unravel it? Start killing darkspawn? A rival hivemind? Start trying to hivemind everyone else?
If these titans were around when the dwarves were st their more or less peak, why couldnt they find any evidence of their existence?
Imall for the agents tho, leliana was an interestig one.
So when Mythal slayed the Titan, she inevitably became bound to their song. Did the Evanuris used blood magic to create the Blight as a disease to keep the titans contained?
Hi Ashe, I enjoyed your videos. From what you are saying and I might be simplifying it here is the "Titans" were here before the Elven Gods or the "Old Gods". And then someone poisoned the Titans? Then that could mean that the Titans have different factions to them. Blighted Titans which is trying to take over all of Thedas. And the clean or unblighted Titans is trying to heal it in some way. hmmm my mind might explode on all the different possiblities going on here.
+sharcardenas63 Possibly, yeah. Blighted Titans may have the intent akin to being an Uber Corypheus. Resisting the control of the 'Blue', but at what physical cost? Pure Titans may appropriately oppose whatever is the Blight, but the price of aligning with them may be your will. Both minimize what we may call our humanity. The Evenuris and Forgotten Ones may be weaker but potentially more scheming versions of Titans. Then we can draw this all down to the Templar and Mage conflict, Spirit and Demon... what's the opposite to Darkspawn? I wouldn't be surprised if we get to see - Awakening may have gotten that ball rolling with the concept of free willed Darkspawn (still of the Blight though, just less compelled into frenzy/war), but what next? HoF is on to 'cure the Blight'... And of course during all of this, there is the Green ;)
The theory is interesting but I wouldn't go as far as to say no one else can stop the Titans, depending on the interpretation of the player the Maker would be a threat to them acting through his followers. (Like Leliana for instance)
I totally just realized that Meredith and Samson have the same sword. Weird.
Thank you for these amazing theories, Ashe... :D
All this talk of Titans makes me think of Greek mythology. Didnt the Greek gods battle them and lock them in Tartarus? I also read the gods were the Titans children, which reminds be of the dwarves a bit. It might be smart to look there for clues where this story goes.
Also Red Lyrium grows in living people so maybe it uses blood to grow. Some sort of blood magic perhaps? Blood magic can block or weaken your connection to the fade and lyrium can both block (templars) and strenghten it.
This is a really interesting theory, but I'm not sure that Solas's plan to remove the Veil would make defeating the Titan's easier. Lyrium is used to strengthen a mage's connection to the Fade, and Lyrium is suggested to be Titan's blood or essence. So, wouldn't reconnecting the Fade to the physical world just make Titan's more powerful, since their blood has such a strong connection to the Fade.
Considering the Titan was extremely upset with the Veil almost tearing at the hand of Corypheus, I think a catastrophic event like the Veil being torn down would absolutely mess up the Titan. Well, one or some of them are already messed up per the Blight. I think big scale events like those are the only time the Titans are vulnerable.
Can you explain the hard in hightown chapter ??? it seems that hawke or the wardens you can leave in the fade live?
I will not kill Leliana just to make her an agent of the Titans.
Titans on one side, elves godkings on another and the third player the Blight.
I think I understand what they say, We will never prove the Maker exist or not, but Andraste is a different entity entirely. She will be the fourth player and we will have a fatal four-way for Thedas.
Now I'm second-guessing my choice to kill the Architect in Awakening...
Just discovered this channel, but I was thinking since the blight is a song and the lyrium sings maybe the Titans are the source of the blight, or more precisely their corrupted blood. I'm thinking that the ancient elves made a poison or a curse to kill the titans but something went wrong, they may have sent the weakened titans in the deep and cut the dwarves connection to magic to prevent their minds from being corrupted and solas eventually used this weapon or something similar to defeat the other eleven gods and trap them in the golden city. Eventually the magister came upon this corruption and made the blight song heard once more to the world. Also with lyrium confirmed as Titan blood, this means that all magic in Thedas is blood magic, that's a very ASOIF way of depicting magic, sacrifices must be made to make it work.
EDIT: Also, speaking of songs *tinfoil hat on* the CHANTry kinda starts to look suspicious to me, maybe the Maker is the/a Titan, I mean Titans litteraly shaped land as in *made* the land as it is in the present. *tinfoil hat off*
EDIT 2: This story of elven gods killing Titans for their religion to get assimilated into the imperium pantheon to then get one upped by a prophet backed by a monotheist god really mirrors what happened to the Greek pantheon in reality.
I'm not 100% sure the Titans are absolutely a threat (unless there is a red one).
The idea about them wanting to take control of all people through a hive mind is interesting though.
However, wouldn't that be like the Sha-brytol? Valta kind of implied that they turned themselves into what they were and the Titian didn't ask them to do so. So if the Titians want everyone to be under their control, why does it seem like they kind of reject the Sha-brytol who seem to be the one ones still devoted to them (even in a CRAZY cult-ish kind of way)?
What I'd like to know is how the blight in red lyrim and the blight in darkspawn is different. Also, how did the blight come to be in the first place? It seems to be some kind of combo of the red lyrim and the magisters going to the Black City. But the details still aren't all together. :/
and.. three year we wait for the next game.
Ohhhh... this is good. I am adding this theory to my AU fic somehow I think.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Solas' tearing down the Veil bring back all the magic? Wouldn't this in turn strengthen the Titans? Is it not possible that Fen'Harel is himself, if unknowingly, another agent of the Titans?
Wow. As you said "Agents of the Titans", my first thought: Sandal O_O
Excellent theory Ashe but I do have to ask for your opinion on a theory I myself have had for quite sometime based on the Implication I took from the end of the Descent & Sola's fears with the end of the Blights in general.
I believe The Forgotten Ones are the Titans deadliest & most fanatical "Agents" locked away long ago by the The Evanuris, leaving Mythal's elite guards whom in this case would be the Old Gods to be the Jailers of The Forgotten Ones so they never escape, and when the darkspawn corrupt them & Wardens kill them, they would be free to carry their Masters will once again in full force since the Old Gods serve not only as Jailers but also Keys to their cells, and once killed the prison they are in is ever more closer to being opened what do you think Ashe? Do you think I may be right or am I overthinking it?
Very Crazy, seems connected but would that effect DA4 and the battle with Solas in the next game?
I think the Titans are just one aspect of Thedas who are not disposed to direct interference in mortal matters
+marsuini I think that if that were the case, they would not have dedicated a whole DLC to them. Or advertently tied them to everything in the games.
solus hates grey wardens - grey wardens want to end the blight = solus knows the wardens need to be stopped to stop the end of the world. holy shit
Now I'm certifiably confused, before it was just an unofficial sort of vague confusion. Best response, just kill them all. So where/how exactly do the old Tevinter Magisters and Andraste fit into this epic struggle if you were to overthink this?
when does kieran mention the titans?
will you upload the assquisator playthrough
Im going to hope the future of the game that they drop this ideal of a titan, and go with a diffent ideal.
If this is true then how and why have the darkspawn and the blight been able to halt the power of the titans for so long, was the blight a pure accident that the titans didnt forsee getting in their way or was it designed as a harsh but necessary action to stop them. We were always led to believe that the veil was created by the maker to protect mortals from demons, but now we discover it was a harsh but necessary creation to stop a handful of power mad elves from destroying the world
+thedarknesscallingme
what if the Architect and The Warden are the true hero's think the Architect freed the Darkspawn from the influence of any one and at the least the ArchDemon and the Warden is trying to end the Calling. since the ArchDemon and Darkspawn mages can pull from something other then the Fade and everything at least in part living can be affected by the blight -red lerium--. I think Shale will be important because her soul was transferred to a golem and seems to not be affected by the blight.
Where do you think The Maker fits into all of this? I personally think The Maker is not real or he was a Titan. You even said in this video that the Titans are influencing the world and they shaped Thedas. Maybe this is why the Shaperate doesn't want a Chantry in Orzammar and all recordings wear erased. Andraste was not "Divine" but was able to hear the Titan's song through lyrium (possibly the corrupted Titan). We all know how powerful of an influence lyrium was in the Temple of Sacred Ashes. Solas more than likely witnessed Andraste through the Fade and still doesn't have any use for that story at all. What do you think?
Actually, the more I think about this theory, the more I like it. Maybe the "Old Gods" never went into the Fade at all or they used the Fade to enter a Titan. This is when the Titan was corrupted and why red lyrium, the Darkspawn and the Archdemons come from underground. Hence the reason "The Maker turned his back" on people.
So to steal a line from coryphius....we better pray that Solas succeeds?
wow missed this entirly on my run through. Scary thought that there are worse things out there then the egg wanting to form the World in such a fashion.
And all of this wonderful, wonderful lore being held up by a game with such terrible AI that everyone either plays it on Casual or specs a Knight Enchanter and holds down the Spirit Blade button for hundreds of hours. Thrilling stuff.
i want to know about the old gods..
I'd say being bound to either is just as bad. As a guy who normally plays a human, I'd say "screw them both" and put an end to them both while we can.
I'm going to link this on BioWare Forums if you don't mind. This is worth the share.
+Teddie Sage Thanks for wanting to share :D
Ashe | Lady Insanity You're welcome. You are after all an integral part of the Dragon Age fandom as a lot of people respect your work and your devotion to the lore and its creators. Thank you for all your patience and hard works.
+Ashe | Lady Insanity I linked it to the Thedas Lore Subreddit: www.reddit.com/r/ThedasLore/comments/3nd5lo/agents_of_the_titans/
Where did you find the picture of the elfs destroying the titan?
Julian Lawson
The elves destroying the titans were depicted in Tresspasser I believe.
We know Mythal Solo'd the titan there in tresspasser. That's what the Lyrium Mine/factory was for the dead titan.
Also the Evanuris were said to have killed or imprisoned the rest
Ashe.... stop blowing my mind.
Does this mean that we've doomed the world by killing gods (hakkon) all the great dragons, dragons in general, and the archdemons? if the Architect was freed from the song, would he not know something else is at play?
Ashe, you've just blown my mind xD
This just feels...right
Whoa!Based on your theories Ash,Titans sound like Dragon Age version of Mass Effect Reaper indoctrination.Maybe not that bad,but pretty close.No way that's a good thing however you look at it.Then again,there is always a chance that Bioware will in Dragon Age 4(I assume DAI sold well enough to continue the franchise someday),introduce something far worse in to the lore.
I've never heard sandals dialog
you are usally 90% right so I with you on this.
Eleven gods are the Old gods. You ever look at this theory or thought of it?
Well this is the first time I ever felt behind on DA lore. Time to buy some DLC.
+LitithsClaptrap At least the definitive version with all the DLC is coming out next month :)
Alright so you basically spoiled the next game where we move away from the 'elven' threat and into the 'dwarven' threat (where DAI moved away from the 'human' threat and into the 'elven' threat). Then I guess I could broadly imagine DA5 moving from the Titans and into something more cosmically existential, then the DA6 finale. And of course there isn't just Red and Blue here. DAI has the engineered Green (thanks Solas) and there could be more of importance.
Great video
Wait there are Titans in Dragon age ? Please explain
play the descent
+Hunter Elyse that's not explaining
+Jamie Awesometon They're ancient beings that shaped the land. That's pretty much all we know.
That and they can make dwarves tall, maybe?
+liamclarke91 thank you, also if teeny can make dwarfs tall then what hope do we to defeat then
No clue. Kieren just says that dwarfs can't be taller "without the titans" when a dwarven inquisitor jokes about trying to look taller.
GOOSEBUMPS
*mass effect 2 log voice* Indoctrination is- oh wrong game. umm fuck I can already see the colour options for the finale, 1. have everyone listen to the Titans song thus all being one mind now - blue choice, 2. carry on fighting against the blight while resealing the Titans - red, 3. or create a new form of mind affecting lyrium which forces all to be an individual and now unaffected by the previous forms of Lyrium red and unawakened blue (this would also affect the Titans thus making infighting amongst themselves some pissed some not.) and giving a united elf human everything else army a chance to fight against the still mean Titans - green. We need a herder of some sort for the 3rd army choice a shepherd perhaps?
+wizard “WiZaRDieZ” iez All Bioware games enjoy mind control themes. KOTOR for sure. Jade Empire I think. And ME1 and DAO both had it (indoctrination, enthrallment, tranquil, blood magic). The Green is shown in its worst form in DAI through the Nightmare Demon's Rift invasion, but it need not be always so dangerous or evil. We'll see.
+Malcolm Swoboda I've never had a problem with the theme it was more a joke on lyrium colours and mass effect 3's perfect ending. But now that you mention yeah I might have a problem with the constant mind altering theme I feel bioware should stop making the problem some device the villain has that can make every other his bitch, what happened to the iron fist dictator that demanded servitude not a massive space squid that slowly mind fucks with music, and why is it always music? Reapers had it and nowTitans?! I love and throw money at these games btw that's why can bitch about them.
wizard iez I think it is symbolic for the possible forces that drive us IRL. Order and Chaos and more. It forces the issue and has us say where we stand.
So, are the Titans the Forgotten Ones?
Then who or what are the Archdemons? Their souls are immortal ...