This Changed Air Communication FOREVER! Inex-Adrià Flight 1308
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- Опубліковано 4 вер 2024
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In 1981, Inex-Adrià flight 1308 set out to fly one of their new MD81's on a routine flight from Ljubljana to Ajaccio. When miscommunications occurred between the experienced pilot and the brand new approach controller, things took a turn for the worst.
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Below you will find the links to videos and sources used in this episode.
SOURCES
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Microsoft Flight Simulator 2020 add-ons:
Aircraft:
LEONARDO SOFTWARE - FLY THE MADDOG X
Airports:
- SCENIC ROUTES - LJLJ - LJUBLJANA AIRPORT
- PILOT EXPERIENCE SIM - LFKJ - AJACCIO NAPOLEON BONAPARTE AIRPORT
Sources:
BEA - Final report (in French): web.archive.or...
Admiral Cloudberg - Cleared for Catastrophe: The Crash of Inex-Adria Avioproment Flight 1308:
/ cleared-for-catastroph...
Wikipedia - Inex-Adria Flight 1308:
simple.wikiped...
In Pictures: Remembering Adria Airways:
www.exyuaviati...
EX-UY Aviation - Handover ceremony of Inex Adria's first DC-9 Super 80:
www.instagram....
ICAO - Manual of Radiotelephony:
store.icao.int...
Navigraph Charts by Simbrief:
www.navigraph.com
www.simbrief.com
B-rolls and supplementary footage from the following videos:
• A day in the life of a...
• Fly through the mounta...
• How do airplanes actua...
• Big plane, short runwa...
• Crossing the Atlantic ...
• Autopilot in action | ...
• Day in the life of Air...
• What it takes to be an...
• What it takes to be an...
• Seasons Greetings from...
• #OurAmazingEveryday
• London City Airport an...
• Apple - Inclusion & Di...
• What goes into pilotin...
• Inex Adria Aviopromet ...
#Mentourpilot #pilot #crash
If you’re struggling or just want to improve, consider therapy with our sponsor BetterHelp betterhelp.com/mentourpilot for a 10% discount on your first month of therapy with a licensed professional, specific to your needs.
If you have any questions about the brand relating to how the therapists are licensed, their privacy policy, or therapist compensation model, check out this FAQ: www.betterhelp.com/your-questions-answered/
Please stop taking sponsorships from BetterHelp. They are an extremely shady company that has done more harm than good. To anyone looking for help, stay far away from these guys. You're better off finding a therapist on your own.
please stop taking this sponsorship. you're one of my favourite channels and I love what you and your team put out, but BH has been involved with multiple privacy issues in the past and there have been multiple reports of non accredited therapists being let on the platform. I understand if you signed a multi-video agreement, but a reply to this would be much appreciated :)
Please do DHL 611 and BTC 2937 mid air collision 💥
Please research "better help" before you take sponsorship from them, they are not worth it.
You deserve to get paid well for these videos but I wish you could find other sponsors
There is only a couple of videos covering the unfortunate YU-ANA flight. But none of them covered the procedural part in so much detail as you. For which I am very grateful. It has been 42 years since this accident happened and since I lost one of the parents in this accident, I was only 1 month old. I have searched a lot to get answers but there were always conflicting stories about what really went wrong. Many people didn’t get their closure. And many still cannot accept what really happened. Thank you for this episode (too).
That's why I decided to read _in extenso_ the original official report.
I'm so sorry.
🙏🦋⚘️🕯
I'm so dreadfully sorry for your loss. I'm glad Petter has been able to bring a level of closure for you. I hope your life has, and will be, otherwise good to you. Take care ❤
I´m sorry for you. Hopefully this Video clarified much for you.
STOP TAKING BETTERHELP SPONSORSHIPS...
Why tho?
Its a scam…
@@martinp1054because they hire unlicensed therapists that don’t/can’t do their job.
i have heard about many 'issues' or 'problems' w better help
@@Cardioqueenmomthat’s wild omg. It seemed like a good setup in theory because some people can’t get into an actual office to see a therapist or can’t afford one. I hate that they do that and eff people over 😢
My father actually flew with the same plane (YU-ANA) and most of the crew less than a week earlier also on a charter flight from Greece. If I remember correctly that flight was also chartered by the travelling agency Kompas so even the same tour guides were on that unlucky flight. He knew some of them personally.
We went on a family trip to Corsica and Sardignia in ‘06 and stayed in a hotel and saw Mt. San Pietro in the distance. My father just watched from the balcony and said nothing. As we drove past the mountain he was quiet all the time which was strange to me at the time as I did not know what has happened there as I was to young to comprehend. The thing I also remember was that as we were leaving Sardignia for Venice we got to the airport and found out that the flight was an MD-82 from AlItalia and upon seeing what plane it was my father went all pale and nervous.
To this day I can clearly remember about one week later when we were at home he finally broke down and told me what has happened and why he was acting all strange during our trip…
Greetings from Slovenia
Thank you very much for sharing these very personal Memories!
I really appreciate you sharing this and hope your father is ok.
Oh my goodness, thank you for sharing! Your dear Father ... I hope he is doing well and bless him for remembering those whom he knew.
Gosh such trauma to carry with him. I hope he is doing ok. Love from Australia ❤
I have made a few small changes as I found out that I clearly misremembered some details (I was 10 at the time).
The trip was in ‘06 not ‘08 and the plane we flew home was an MD-82 from Alitalia not an MD-83.
Unbeknownst to us at the time as we were on the trip in 06 there was still large parts of the plane still scattered all over San Pietro.
I can still remember the next year as the piece on TV came out about the crash and the team discovered the wreckage still scattered on the mountain and then a cleanup was carried out in 08.
My father is doing OK for anyone wondering, but the trip opened a wound for him. He just needed some time to get over it again.
I have a plan to visit the crash site someday and if time permits even bring my father with me if he wishes to do so.
I feel some connection to this place as I was told the trip to Corsica was considered by my father and his family when it was offered but since he already decided to go to Athens and was to enrol in the mandatory service in the Yugoslav army at the time and work on our house was at a point that no further delays in construction before the snowfall were possible they decided against the trip quite early.
Oh the irony…
Quick shoutout from Slovenia - this accident added a significant dent into the trust we had of flying back then. It is so ironic to see, how much information was available in the final report, but the news just talked about mountains and unexpected fog - seemed so "reasonable" at the time
The news will always tell what they ve been told to. Everywhere. It’s a government tool.
The fact that a freshly trained ATC with just one month of active duty was operating the tower without supervision especially in a difficult airport without radar like this one is mind-boggling to me. That seems like a invitiation of accidents to happen...
At least it wasnt also extremely busy place, and he didnt ended up smacking two planes together after confusing one for another plane (which was much further and not in danger whatsoever).
Ajaccio airport was very quiet in those days. If you had a dozen commercial flights per day was the maximum. Mostly twin-prop or small twin-jets. Most general aviation would favor Calvi, Bastia, Propriano or Figari.
I knew a guy who lost his life, along with his wife, on this flight.
He was a glider pilot who just started flying after a some years of hiatus. When he got married, his priorities changed, he built a house for for his young family, raise their two daughters, flying became sidelined.
After a few years, he could afford to start flying again, it was the year when I started flying. At the end of the year he got the tickets for this flight, it was the first trip he and his wife had together, it turned out, it was also their final and their two daughters became orphans and were raised by their grandparents.
That is so sad! Beautiful children!
@@bobbyg9662With the help of grandparents from both sides they have grown up and they have their own families now.
And their story, as much as it is sad, it is also story of resiliance and story of love.
This tragedy surely had a big impact on them, but it didn't define them. And thanks to their grandparents, they have grown to nice, fine ladies, parents and grandparents.
@@fifi23o5 Thank you for coming back and delivering the story about the daughters. I was hoping they at least managed to find happiness and as you explain it, I think they did.
My best wishes for everyone.. (I couldn't just scroll past.)
Dear lord that’s very sad. So happy the children had loving family to depend on. Small victories…
The fact that they were SO close to clearing the mountain - just a matter of several feet - makes this all the worse for me. It's so painful, so tragic - they were so close to getting through this. Damn!
Very sad that they were so close to clearing it.
i was just talking about it. despite everything, had he followed the memory items when the gpws gave the first warning they would escape ):
When I heard " mountains" "fog" "unexperienced controller" "language barrier" I knew this wouldn't end well.
Lack of experience of this terrain by the flying crew and absence of radar over high ground are some other holes in this cheese.
Plus insufficient approach briefing, open cockpit door, and child in the jump asking questions. This was a disaster in the making.
@@julosx Indeed.
@@janeryan2709 It was caused by a real string of holes in the Cheese. Really everything went horribly wrong..
I made the same assumption when I saw DEADLY! in the title.
One of my first thoughts as a non-pilot was "who the hell set up a holding pattern over a mountain range for an approach to a seaside airport" 😂
Since RNAV was not an option back then, the hold needed to be based over a ground station, so they did not really have much else to choose from when designing the hold.
Me too!
@@se-kmg355 Thanks for the insight, I had no idea 👍
but pilot should always revert to the chart which shows terrain and min alt 6800…
I had the exact same thought when the pattern was shown
I haven’t found anyone that brings these accidents and incidents to life the way you do. Keep up the good work.
Thank you for the kind words Jeremy!
@@MentourPilot But pleaseno more Better Help ads...
I love your videos, but see my comment about better help. Please stop taking their sponsorships, they are a bad company and you are hurting your image by continuing to associate with them @@MentourPilot
@@MentourPilot Got that, MP? You're promoting fraud!
You should also checkout the Mayday tv show
Quit with the better help sponsors.
indeed!
Shut up
Yes!
@roro4787 they sell your personal data even though they said they won’t, and they knowingly received fake referrals from a fraudulent provider aggregate site that the FTC ultimately shut down. The providers listed on the site were legitimate providers but the providers didn’t know they were listed on these sites that gathered perspective patient info that were funneled to better help.
Its all bad
@roro4787they sell data and hire unlicensed therapists
not betterhelp again please :(((
What did they do?
@@lunaa764they sell data and hire unlicensed therapists
@@amirhasanbasic2193^^^
@@amirhasanbasic2193They sold personal data of their customers to ads
He's probably locked into a contract. And I'm sure he's done the research and will likely exit the partnership as soon as he can. This kind of stuff takes time. He doesn't strike me as the type of person that would take the approach "money is money"
Mentor pilot: mentions betterHelp
Me: sighs, lets check the comments
Same
They're so annoying. It isn't as though his ad reads require anyone to do anything, but the outrage mob certainly feels entitled to demand that he stop receiving their sponsorships. Arrogant and entitled; maybe they are the ones who could most benefit from some therapy.
What I find the funniest is that not one of them has any personal experience with the company. They are outraged about something that has no effect on their lives but probably let things that are negatively affecting their lives every day go by without complaint. It's a strange mindset, isn't it?
@@reshpeckBetterhelp has done illegal things in many cases and has shared private therapy info with advertisers. You're delusional if you think that's okay.
@@reshpeck Yes, why should anyone be frustrated or annoyed about anything that doesn't affect them directly? Everyone should just think about themselves and only themselves all the time.
If anything is entitled here, it's that you seem to think that mental-health issues can't possibly be affecting the people annoyed with BetterHelp or people they know. Maybe I should let you know now that I have not been negatively affected by BetterHelp personally, so if you want to stop listening, now is your chance. The big problematic thing is that all of us trust Peter when it comes to his knowledge and expertise, and that can make some of us think that that means he can't be wrong about other stuff he isn't actually an expert on (appeal to authority). Someone who trust Peter might see this video and actually want to try it out. Maybe they've been struggling but haven't known where to start, and they see this video and think, "oh, maybe I could start there." That is a big problem.
Peter taking their money is him saying he endorses their products and services, but this is a harmful company that only wants to "help" you so they can sell your data.
But it doesn't affect me directly, so...
Bots, bots everywhere
This one strikes way too close to home. I was born after this happened, but my parents knew quite a few people on this flight. To this day on Nov 1st, they go light a candle at the monument dedicated to the victims at the central cemetery in Ljubljana, and I do the same, even though this was before my time and I obvs didn't know anybody. Thanks for covering it!
Hi! Better help therapists are NOT licensed pls read the fine print
Good. Gonna cry?
@@user-cr6rg6nl7j im good, are you?
@@user-cr6rg6nl7j
Suck a bathroom knob.
Greetings from Slovenia! I heard of this accident as being the worst in the history of our country when they finally decided to clean up the debris in 2008. And btw, my compliments of your good prononciation of Slovene names.
1:55 Jože would disagree.
Pozdrav iz ZDA! Oberkrainer glasba za vedno! 🇸🇮❤️
@@seventhson3228 He said Brnik.
Hi petter!! Another amazing video!
I just wanted to kindly let you know that better help is actually quite renowned for its issues - taking money from people and not giving them appointments, ghosting patients, employing “therapists” with zero training or studying… I’ve heard some real horror stories. One woman’s mother passed away, and the “therapist” forgot about it, so when the woman said she missed her mother, the “therapist” suggested she give her mother a call on the phone to catch up. It’s such a great concept, but sadly has become pretty well known for scamming desperate people who can’t access help in other places, ultimately being quite damaging! I know you get sponsorship from them as you genuinely care about people, and believe better help to be valid and reliable, but just wanted to let you know that they are quite problematic.
Anyway, that aside, thank you for expanding my aviation knowledge every week!! 💜💜 love to you and the family.
Thank you, Peter, I was waiting for years for you to create this video and research the case.
I was only a boy then, but remember the disaster.
Yes, it was common at that time for pilots to let kids that are interested to see the cockpit.
Mother's good friend, a captain in JAT ( Yugoslav Airlines ) told me he could bring me along with him but then as of 1984 and the Winter Olymiad in Sarajevo, the security rules were tightened and that was not possible anymore.
I still remember my experience on a Lufthansa 737 flight from FRA-BEG in June '79. The cockpit crew allowed me to come up halfway through the flight and sit in the jumpseat. I didn't leave the cockpit until after we reached the gate. I treasure that memory. The entire cabin and flight crew were amazing.
As a young lad (in Air Cadets at the time) on a french exchange (mid 80s ish?) - I gingerly asked to go up and chat with the flight crew and say hello for a moment, which I did. They gave me a warm welcome and described the instruments and operations and asked a little about my glider experiences. I went back to my seat.
As we got near to landing, a stewardess invited me back up into the cockpit to sit on the center jump seat as we landed in Paris at night.
Thank you two anonymous pilots! Absolutely amazing. I still can't believe how lucky I was. (No, I didn't get into aviation after all, went the route of Uni + computers.)
them were the days! As an Unaccompanied Minor, it was sit on the jump seat, out of the cabin crews way. Knew a DC3 cockpit before I knew a car's controls!
What a heartwarming story!
Same years, ex Yugoslavia Military AN-24 configured for parachuters, with military crew, rented by oil company to transport crew to oil platforms in sea... As young student working trough summer holidays... Landing in cockpit in Zagreb or Dubrovnik in standing position behind crew seats... Unforgettable and I know in this days seen as max crew neglect but than it was normal...
I hope your contract with this scam organisation ends soon.
Great video other than the advertiser.
Yeah I’ve been upvoting comments about this but I haven’t been posting my own. I know their sponsorship contracts can be demanding and difficult to get out of.
@@shanestachwick4784 Considering that they've literally been taken to court recently, I think that'd be all the grounds a decent lawyer needs to get you out of it.
Same. I'm a fan of the channel and I hope that this is just him riding out the rest of the sponsorship contract. Those sorts of contracts are pretty difficult to get out of, so I don't fault creators who are still locked into contracts set up years ago. Hopefully it's not for much longer, it isn't renewed when it lapses, and he can say something after the fact.
@@shanestachwick4784BetterHelp were exposed six years ago, that’s a long contract.
Do people really not use sponsor block?
We are grateful you bring these historical incidents for learning. Trainees need to know the story of what happened in the past so that they can put in context what and why they have to do the things they do.
A tragedy showcasing Reason's swiss cheese model. We went over this accident in ATC training but you could never get ATC instructors to explain the pilots thoughts this well. Thank you a lot for this.
Was waiting for someone to comment about the cheese😂
Unfortunately didn’t see the graphic in a video for a long time 😮💨
But I don't understand why MP didn't draw more attention to the pilot's not preparing for the landing and looking at the approach chart. Neither had landed there, and they had their own children onboard, so why so careless? If they had scrutinised the approach chart, they would have known that going around would have meant the need to climb to 10k. They lost their minds, were distracted by the family and arrogantly believed they could land on this 'challenging' airport without looking at the charts many times? Seems to be. Notice MT didn't mention the landing procedure checklist once in this video? He never omits that in videos, pro-pilot bias? He went along with blaming ATC instead. ATC actually gave many cues that the pilots didn't understand because they didn't look at the approach charts and learn the waypoints. It was the pilot's fault, and MP excused their mistakes several times. Weird video.
@@RJ1J What puzzled me, was that the pilots knew the minimums in the holding loop. So why when they were given permission to descend, did THEY not realise that they were at cross purposes with ATC.
I am an engineer (not even in aviation), but on countless times watching these videos, I cringe at the lack of basic technical knowledge among pilots.
If I ran an airline, a qualification or experience in engineering or physics would be a requirement prior to training .
In addition pilots would spent a couple of weeks every year in the maintenance workshops to keep up to date with the technology. It would cost the airlines nothing.
If I had been in this position, I would have refused to fly the 737 Max. Boeing could have put MCAS where the sun does not shine.
Aer Lingus have a system where engineers and pilots work together and are on Christian name terms.
They have not suffered a crash or incident involving injury in more than 55 years.
@@RJ1J Petter mentioned it pretty clearly: First: The ongoing Distractions in the Cockpit (Flight Attended came in asked for something, Son of one of the Pilots asked Daddy continously, noise from the Cabin through the open Cabin Door) during the Approach Briefing, which seperated this Briefing into three Parts, so that they didn´t recognize that it was not completed when they finally finished it - and probably didn´t therefore remember other parts of the Briefing not, too. Second and probably even more important: Contradicting Procedures for Approaches into Airports without Radar Covering in (what was then) Yugoslawia and France at that Time and the Lack of Knowledge about these Differences y the Pilots. In Yugoslawia it was the sole Responsibility of ATC to maneuvre the Aircraft safely into the Airport. Standard Operational Procedure for the Pilots were that they had to follow strictly the Order of the ATC, whatever Order this was. But in France the Regulation was the Opposite: It was the sole Responsibility of the Pilots to maneuvre the Aircraft safely into the Airport. So it was not unusual for French ATC to clear an approaching Aircraft to 3000 feet when there was a 4500 high Mountain in front of the Aircraft - the Pilots had to take care that they didn´t crashed into him. BUT THE PILOTS APPROACHED THIS AIRPORT FOR THE VERY FIRST TIME AND THEY HAD GOTTEN NO INFORMATION ABOUT THE DIFFERENT REGULATIONS. So in their Mind they had no reason to look onto the Approach Chart but only to follow strictly the ATC-Order. And that was what they did.
So it makes very much Sense what Petter summarized as Lesson to learn from this Accident: The Need for Standardization of Procedures.
@@RJ1J I'd think, just because they're human. Humans make errors, humans pass over possibly incredibly life saving information without a second thought.
That's just how we are.
This reminds me of the 90's when the cockpit cabin door was open all the flight and you could see the plane take of through the cockpit windows. And pilots were awesome enough to show and tell about all the impressive tech inside the cockpit. As a kid, that's incredible to see. Good ol' days 😅
Can I get a ticket to the 90's? 😜
Yes, they were. My son and I got to go up to the cockpit on an Air Canada flight from Toronto to Vancouver many years ago. We were able to spend about a half hour up there enjoying the view and the pilots answered all of our questions. We thoroughly enjoyed the experience.
I live in Corsica and have been to the crash site. There is still a certain amount of wreckage there. Pretty rough terrain so I guess they just left most of it in place.
You could bring some of it
And sell it for auction
@@rex77xit's where people died, that would be disrespectful, but understandable in 2024
@redboyjan still better than the complete removal of ww2 ship wrecks from the sea floor
@@rex77x what a yucky sentence.
@@benmac940 why do you think it's better and not equally as bad?
Both are shit
I was fully engaged with the video, then the BetterHelp ad read kicked in and I paused to scroll comments to make sure people are being sufficiently warned about their fraudulent activies, then I forgot to watch the rest of the video.
Honestly, if people spent half the time getting wrapped up in issues that have consequences for society as they do cancelling content creators sponsoring BetterHelp, then the world might have fewer scam companies in the first place.
And yet you remembered to comment
@@cudak888you now companies like betterhelp are a big issue, so waring others and trying to stop them from making money in in bad ways is a right thing to do
And felt the need to share with the world. No one cares bro.
@wafulee Same, and I think I will "forget" as well.
If I never see another Better help (or Scentbird...) ad-read again, it'd still be too many
What's wrong with scentbird?
Has a really weird CEO, I don't think there's anything wrong with the service itself tho
30:57 @@lordlundin6495Makes me think of Shit Bird 😅
@@lordlundin6495look up their CEO
@@lordlundin6495 Seen many weird reads, the service itself seems just whatever, but they have the UA-camr break the video with "important update" or "big news" and some rambling that you think are important, and then it's an add for Scentbird. Dunno why, but it's _always_ this company.
Totally different from Betterhelp tho! I mostly threw it in there, it's a pet peeve for me and (I think) lots of others.
At my old industrial job, I had a supervisor that told me to always repeat the instruction you get from your partner back to them, rather than just saying "yes, I'll do that". That way, if your readback of the instruction is wrong, your partner will catch the mistake and read it back correctly. As you have said,
And every time I try to do this at work, I get yelled at for “wasting time” “interrupting” “that’s what I just said aren’t you listening” “can’t you just do as I ask the first time” etc. Luckily no one dies if we misunderstand each other though.
@@bookcat123 You should report your partners for harassment. Nobody should have to go through this for the sake of clear communication.
@@bookcat123 better to get yelled at than end up as a statistic on a chart somewhere
Sadly, it sounds like that wouldn’t even have helped here.
@@bookcat123 You should explain at least once *why* you're repeating the instructions. It's a systematic method to avoid accidents caused by yet unknown future miscommunication. And since you cannot know when the future miscommuncation will happen, you have to make it a habit to always repeat the instructions to verify the communcation has been understood correctly.
Computer communication systems use checksums for this but humans cannot use that method effectively so repeating the full message or at least the key parts is the only way to verify that the communcation succeeded. The key point is that communication errors happen even between computers so you should never ever assume that communcation between humans would automatically succeed.
As a pilot I am often reminded of the Farside cartoon that shows 2 pilots in their cockpit, in clouds, with a goat in front of them. "I wonder how that goat got way up here."
😂😂😂
Funny and scary at the same time. Wonder if they were on the GOATZ1 arrival? 😂
Tbf goats dont adhear to the laws of physics
Lol, I know that one.
I miss Larson so much
Ahh.. Air disasters video before sleep. Very great bedtime stories... except the lesson learned really changed something in the aviation world
and with a scammy sponsor to make the 👍 into a 👎 unfortunately.
one of the rare videos that I liked but still down-voted. Never Use Better Help. Ever.
I remember this accident. I also remember that everyone was so puzzled as to how it happened. Thanks for the very detailed analysis and presentation. Cheers from Winnipeg.
In 1998, we flew on Canadian to Boston and back to visit my in-laws. My uncle was a captain with them and my aunt a flight attendant and she was with us on the flight out, but on the flight back, they noticed my surname and we ended up in the cockpit more than once with my then 6 month old son being held by the captain and first officer and wearing their hats and taking pictures. Then, I took him and left, as I am pretty much a frequent, but total white knuckler with flying, but my husband stayed in the cockpit for landing into YVR. Different times, for sure! 😊
If only you looked into your sponsors like you do these incidents…. 🤦🏽♂️
I'm glad these comments are rightfully calling Petter out for the BH sponsorships. I recently emailed his official business line and got back a fairly discouraging response, saying that its been an amicable partnership and such.
The meat of this content is incredible stuff and I would hate to unsubscribe over bad sponsorships, but I will not patronize a channel that accepts money from BH.
How recently did you email?
You will not be missed. Enjoy watching other channels.
It’s unfortunate that as much as he talks about cognitive bias in his videos that he’s succumb to them himself with BH. They have a documented history of deceptive practices and they pay their therapists garbage. His good experience doesn’t change that, and he shouldn’t be promoting a company who sells user data, lists clinicians without their knowledge, and pays their therapists pennies.
BH look pretty unappealing to me, but can't you just do what I (and others I presume) do with ALL adverts in ALL YT vids: skip em? One day they may work out how to force our eyeballs to watch good stuff like Petter's vids and not intrusive nonsense from grubby companies of one kind or another ... but that day won't be soon. Until then, click the timeline, click again, enjoy!
The response fits with the non-stop tune in videos where the incident is significantly caused by incompetence but Petter makes excuses for it by saying the purpose of the videos isn't to lay blame. Most incidents are not due to incompetence but there are some where it is clear that, especially, a pilot had no business being in the cockpit and there were many chances to keep them grounded. Therapists, not all of them, live in a world where incompetence is to be explained away, be damned the consequences.
Worst
Sponsor
Ever
Worse than the company that "made" you a Scottish lord and "planted" a tree for you?
Sorry I'm being nit-picky about the word "worst" LOL, they are pretty bad. People have shared outright horror stories of their "therapy" sessions on BH, but there are also those who found it helpful. I wouldn't take their sponsorship though.
i must be in the wrong place. thought this was about aviation.
@@frufruJ Yes, the tree laird people where not actively talking to potential people in crisis and shunting them to fake therapists while also spreading their medical information to advertisers. There is an extreme magnitude of difference between the 2.
@@huma474 yeah but they were blatantly just a scam. BH at least supposedly help.
Mind you, I'm not defending them, this is just a philosophical discussion about which one is worse 💩
@@frufruJ Yes. Worse in the sense that my personal info has not been proven in a court of law to have been sold when their terms of service did not specify it. I take the theft of information as seriously as I take the theft of money by fraud. I would say the advertiser you mentioned is worse in terms of monetary theft? It would depend what a person values more I suppose, privacy or money.
The pilots' failure to look at the chart was most certainly one of the holes in the swiss cheese. The misunderstanding was just another hole in the swiss cheese. Cleared to 3000 when the chart said 6800 should have triggered alarm bells in the minds of the pilots.
Many unfortunate small swiss cheese holes
@@j.o.1516 I dislike the "Swiss Cheese" thing because, as a deli clerk, I know that the holes in the Swiss cheese ALWAYS line up -- because that's the physics of slicing through gas bubbles in a solid.
I wouldn’t fly below the approach plates listed MDAs. If it says 6800 I’m not going below 6800. Especially in IMC.
@@j.o.1516 the Swiss cheese analogy is easier to parse than a net
@@mbvoelker8448 even slices from different sections? ._.
Please stop promoting betterhelp
IKR I will stop watching and unsubscribe..
Replying to see if this comment gets taken down. lmao.
@@ElizabethLee8472 then your not here for the real reason, its to dig into aviation accidents and explaining how we can fix them so they never happen again, if u dont like that then leave
Erm, he can do whatever he wants, it's his channel and for all of us, it's free content.
@@AllAboutAuto31 Promoting betterhelp could unironically lead to more accidents. Do you want more people to die?
Really gotta drop betterhelp man
STOP promoting Better Help. They are a terrible company that does more harm than good (personal experience). I know the sweet smell of cash is hard to resist from big sponsors like this but please.. they are a terrible company. Do your research before accepting money from companies that DO NOT care about people. Thanks. 🙏
Maybe do a little more recent research. Like how the claim they use unlicensed therapists has been debunked. And there haven't been any data leaks ever since the fine , they even paid out compensation
@@MydieLyas a therapist, I can say that their texting therapy and expectation of access present a whole different issue in terms of quality of care as well as payment structure for the providers. State licensing issues aren’t as easily solved as “not limiting yourself to seeing a mental health professional in your state.”
@@MydieLy I speak from experience. I really hope that you or anyone else is never in the position to be able to speak from experience.
Agree - please don't promote better help ; it is a bad company. 😢
He might be in a contract that is really hard to get out of. We might be stuck with better help readings for a few more videos.
Being just a passenger (not an expert), that was my first question, even at the beginning of the video: "Why is the holding pattern on complicated terrain rather than on the sea?" Sometimes it doesn't take expertise, but just common horse sense, to diagnose the problem.
I might be completely off, but partially its probably price and it being set long ago. Holding pattern needed a navigational aid to help guide pilots in and it was cheaper to just put it on top of the mountain rather than putting it on a boat. And once that was established probably decades before the accident, it is unlikely it would be upgraded for a regional airport to keep up with developments.
Today I would not be surprised you might not even need a radio beacon.
This holding pattern thing can be O.K. in good visibility with a small, slow aircraft, it was completely impossible to do it the proper way with a MD-81 which is too big and too fast to turn without scratching a mountain on the side. The controller should have asked the pilots what they could see through their windows. In this case of approach the controller might have expected "the sea" as an answer. Obviously he didn't take on board the inexperience of the flight crew over this terrain. If those pilots knew this place better, they would have dropped the holding pattern and follow directly the radial 247 and fly over the sea as the controller was expecting them to.
you are right and that is the explanation why flying is not safe
@@rnies6849Flying isn’t safe? Sounds like your brain is pretty smooth.
The thing about common sense is that it’s a lot less common than you’d think. Beyond just a lack of common sense, 70% of humans are about 10 IQ points away from being chimps.
I love your videos.
But I can't condone your use of better help, please do your own research, they are up there with being one of the most evil companies on the face of the planet.
If you're reading this and thinking about using their services: DONT. Look up the lawsuits the SCC fines and how they will use your information to advertisers. Yes, your mental health data will be shared, no matter what they say.
Theres a good chance he got into a contract with betterhelp too and now can't get out even if he wanted to
@Nate-eu1pt no contract forces you to run an ad, no business would sign something like that.
@@formation100 Don’t buy stuff you don’t want.
It’s your responsibility to decide where you spend your money.
If you have mental health issues, contact a provider of professional help.
Edit: I don’t condone advertising a business that isn’t 💯… but in the end what sponsor is???
Edit 2: I would like to hear Peter’s thoughts on this topic.
@@guarami1 Its our social responsibility as humans to warn other humans about companies that cause us harm. If we don't, they will be pervasive and erode the fabric of our own society. Its not about me personally buying something, its about warning people about buying something that will be more harmful than good. As you said, people should seek out professional help in their own home town/city. In many cases, its CHEAPER than using their crappy online service that will use your data to target ads to you.
Oh, a video of an accident that happened in my country... Having visited Corsica, I can confirm the mountains there are really steep, even close to the sea. I'm glad they changed the holding pattern's position too, having a holding pattern over terrain doesn't make any sense when you have plenty of sea available
As a slovenian,i was waiting for this video for a while.Thanks for covering it!
Commenting so I can be reminded to come back when he stops taking Betterhelp sponsorships ✌️
Please reconsider your Betterhelp sponsorship. In light of recent revelations its quite inappropriate to be pushing their services onto your viewers
I wondered why this video had so many downvotes
@@marcosolo6491 did my comment inconvenience you?
What downvotes? That is not a public number for like 5 years
@@panda4247 I can't remember what exactly it is, but there's something that makes it visible. A plugin of some kind, certain type of browser, maybe it was just a youtube premium account, or something else. Anyway, whatever it is, it allows you to see dislikes on any video just like before.
@@panda4247 there's a plugin that shows the dislikes. UA-cam is pretty much unusable for me without it so it's a must have, you should give it a go
I have to down vote for the "Better Help" sponsorship but I also didn't just want to leave negative feedback with out showing you the respect as a creator to point out why and say that otherwise the video is great and I really appreciate it. I think you make great content and deserve to be paid for it and I hope you find a better way to accomplish that. To be clear this isn't some demand or anything, I'm honestly thankful you do what you do, I'm also thankful you haven't deleted all the comments, including the very much less than reasonable ones, on the subject of the FTC ruling which found they stole user data.
I hope my comment can both show appreciation and thanks for all you do AND serve to let companies know that violating the law and selling user data isn't something that is easily forgotten.
I love the fact that you have a regular upload schedule despite being a full time pilot!
"After 21 wonderful years I have taken the decision to take a career break and focus on my family and the Mentour group, full time!" - he posted it on Linkedin 11 months ago
Except ... he's not flying anymore.
@@Hans-gb4mv I was wondering about that. Moving to Andorra means a 3 hour drive to the Girona-airport. Do you know whether Petter resigned from his position or that he was let go?
@@Dirk-van-den-BergI wish Petter would address this. I'm not sure if he's flying or not. I've often wondered how busy summer flying is compatible with high quality production. I'm aware he has staff but it takes time away from his family life as well. I hope Mentour Pilot is happy, flying or not.
on his Linkedin it says he stopped flying 11 months ago to focus on his other work and family
Better help ❌❌
Fraudsters help ✅✅
💯
Greetings from Slovenia. Thank you for covering this accident. In a republic as small as Slovenia, many people knew someone who met a tragic end on the flight 1308.
Just a small correction: Inex-Adria Airways (also known before as Inex-Adria Aviopromet and only Adria Aviopromet in earlier years) was a part of Inex group until 1986, when it became an independant carrier as Adria Airways. The picture at 0:50 shows the interesting retro "Aviopromet" livery on an Adria Airways A319.
It is a real shame that our flag carrier and once worlds most punctual charter airline has closed down in 2019. That is sadly what years of mismanagement, pointless ventures and blindly trusting a German 4K investment company does. I was lucky enough to fly it before the bankruptcy. RIP Adria Airways 💔 🛬
Hahahahahaha dobra. Kamikaze bi te varneje pripeljale kot ta obupna letalska družba. Spodobni ljudje praznujemo njen propad kot nacionalni praznik!
For the love of your community Petter, please stop accepting Better Help sponsorships! Your brand and reputation is built on facts and trustworthiness. Not only does this sponsorship make your audience question your credibility, it also detracts from the often serious and important topics you discuss in your videos. Please think twice before accepting money from known criminals!!!
I'm just gonna say what many don't consider, at the end of the day, creators need the money to run their channel especially when hiring people, unless more people donate or subscribe, how is he gonna keep up with the cost. That's the most practical question. At least it's good people bring these scammy companies, and I'm pretty the channel team is a were but what can they do
@@pixelbrocoli243 They are big enough to have many sponsors knocking at their door. Promoting something that is harmful to your own audience for a quick buck is vile.
His ad reads don't bother me, my wife had a bad experience with better help, and I don't use it, but never once has it affected what I think about Peiter or his channel.
I would rather a short ad read the way he does it than anything else because I know that ad Read allows him the financial capabilities to make awesome videos. For that reason I love Better Help, that they put money in my favorite creators pocket.
@@EricBishard And works against those who buy it because he promoted it.
@@PowerSpirit50He probably has a deal to promote them for a set amount of time or a certain number of videos. And if you are paying attention, he only promote one sponsor each video
I’ve heard of this incident, I can’t wait to see your perspective on this along with your ever-excellent presentation.
I've heard of the sponsor though. Better Help are horrible, but if you don't care about your audience, I suppose scam for them is fair?
These stories always show just how many things have to go wrong in order for a plane to go down, it's never just one thing.
The Swiss cheese model is a good mental representation of this.
@@Tretusentre yep thank god that the times of planes crashing becose of stupid things like the pilot deciding to have some fun with female passingers is over
(Im refrencing a plane crash in the ussr in the 30s .Other things that have happend in the ussr are the pilots puting bets if they can land a plane blindfolded ,they couldnt)
@DrMoriarty-sees-alla lot of things would have to go wrong for that bomb to end up in the cargo area though
@DrMoriarty-sees-allThere are other things that went wrong that allowed that bomb to be put in the cargo.
Bird strike is one thing though but yeah usually more than 1 thing
Wind shear too
He better address the Betterhelp sponsorship. He likes all the comments that don't pertain to the elephant in the room.
I am actually gonna unsubscribe. Makes me sad.
Edit: unsubscribed and not watching the video.
Are you aware how a contract works?
@@ukeyaoitrash2618 cancel the contract, return the money.. it's hard to do especially when it's already accounted for in the economics of the channel.. but the responsible thing to do..
yall are some karens in here complaining about his sponsorship choice
@@Cojasvim If again, there is no clausule that they have to pay a fine ON TOP then.
In addition to which, the economics of the channel means paying his own people who work on it, do you want them to die under a bridge with their families?
Just wait till the contract runs out
Wow! that approach is a crazy one, I'm not sure if I have seen a more difficult on than this! thanks Peter and the team...
Look up "Paro approach" on UA-cam if you enjoy crazy approaches. It's in Bhutan (east of Nepal) and has a reputation for being one of the most challenging airports to land at.
I was really surprised towards the end when, uppon receiving the "terrain, pull up"-warning, the pilots reacton was not to immediately allpy full thrust and pull up. Maybe, I've watched enough of your videos to have this drilled in ym brain by now, but "aviate, navigate, communicate", and probably the single most scary warning "terrain, pull up", trigger an immediate response for me: get that plane climbing immediately as hard as it allows.
Any other problems can be dealt with later!
I still remember one of your videos (wasn't able to find it), where the pilots didn't notice they were flying into terrain and were kinda ignoring the controller due to stress with engine failure issues (I think), then the controller, seein it on the plane on the radar, gently but very firmly told them "Terrain ahead, turn right ...", and the pilots immediately responed by innitiating the turn.
What baffels me is that it was not obvious to regulators before such a tragedy happened, that drilling "terrain escape" into the deepest part of everyone in command of an aircraft, will save lives and is more likely to be needed than one might hope at first...
It's almost the equivalent to a car, where when anything unepected happens hitting the breaks as hard as possible to stop asap, is the best course of action (*baring very few very rare exceptions...). (But I think the comparison is still good enough.)
Only with modern brakes can you hit them hard. Prior to that, 'tapping' the brakes had much better control, and also actively steering (no wild corrections usually). I had been on the receiving end of someone who just hit the brakes hard, and skidded right into me. So no, just slamming your foot on the brake is not always wise at all. If she had not kept her foot on the brake, there would have been no collision. I was stationary.
Actually, the equivalent in the car is to do the same thing as the plane. The pilots are actively maneuvering to avoid the obstacle. In the car, the best way to avoid an accident is usually to actively use steering and throttle to avoid to obstacle and not just slam on the brakes.
Afaik the old planes didnt have GPWS. So that was the 1st time they heard it in a real situation, and got confused until it was too late
To be fair the terrain system alerts a lot when on final approach I’m mts terrain. You have to fly the numbers to truly be safe. MSA/MDA are there for a reason.
Better Help is Fraudulent
Where did you learn this?
@@eadweard. just google it, it's _very_ easy to find this information
@@eadweard.try using google
@@salis-salis That won't tell me where the OP learnt it.
@@eadweard.at least it will confirm what they said… doesn’t matter where they heard it
Seems like everyday we hear about another data breach of an online company/service. So sure, I’m really eager to divulge my most personal thoughts to an online company via their therapists! /s
Please stop the Better Help sponsors! Please look into their bad business dealings and shady practices
I am a PPL low-time pilot and your videos help me a lot to improve safety and be a better pilot.
Thank you!
Remember that for all these rules and improvements somebody paid with their own life.
One thing I notice is the way in which workload makes it harder to catch errors. This is another reason why briefings are so important because they allow one to leverage expectation bias to find errors and problems rather than suppress them.
Not previously knowing anything about this tragedy, my heart sinks incrementally as I watch, as I've learned to pick up on certain ominous things Petter says that foreshadow the eventual, heartbreaking outcome...a terrible incident, but one that you covered masterfully, as always...thank you!!
I am also glad we have experienced Pilots like you flying. I would feel very safe flying with you. Thank you for all the work you do for this Channel, your work is greatly worth watching as it gives everyone view of what you Pilots have to deal with every time you fly an Aircraft. Always stay safe when flying Sir.
The fact that your team looked for an approach plate of the 80s make this the best YT channel 🎉
Been a long-time fan of the channel. It's a shame that opening a Mentour video now, I have to scroll to the description, check the sponsor, and base my decision to watch it on that. This one is not getting watched.
Loving the regularity of your uploads. Thanks to you and your amazing team.
And thank you to you for watching!
@@MentourPilot please! no more Better Help ads...
To be honest I would love if he didn't make so many videos, that would mean that less accidents happened in the past.
Greetings from Slovenia and a big thank you for what you do! I was 16 at the time of the accident and it was a tragedy for our little nation. Everybody seemed to know a person who lost the life in Ajaccio. My best mate from school lost his mother and aunt.
It is also interesting how these lessons can be applied to other professions. Pete saved my job in 2015 when l applied his aviation lessons to my profession. I have been a follower ever since.
Better help gets that bag of money but they’re immoral
It seems to me that the pilots' failure to have thoroughly reviewed the approach plate was crucial to this accident. If they had a minimum safe altitude of 6800 feet for the holding pattern in their minds and the controller cleared them to descend to 3000', I would think they would have likely questioned that directive. Also, if they had thoroughly reviewed the approach plate, they would or should have kept their speed under maximum and thus would have flown a tighter pattern that would not have taken them over the mountain they hit. Yes, the controller's improper terminology contributed to this accident, but I don't accept that it was the primary cause. The pilots were sloppy about flying for the first time into an airport surrounded by well-known dangerous terrain. One would think that would have been extremely well-prepared and they weren't.
How unfortunate. I can't imagine the responsibility of being an air traffic controller at 24 without any supervisors present.
And without radar like Banana Republic
That's what shocked me the most. 24 - OK, pretty young for that job, but not impossible to do. No radar - wtf, what year is this, 1930 ? No supervisor - wtf2, the guys was literally 1 month on the job, who does that ? No other colleagues present, besides a telephone bot, ahem, assistant - OH NO, RIP :( From that point on, watching the video was like watching Final Destination lol.
@@tusux2949 No radar coverage, no experienced ATC people at the tower ,crappy orbitting pattern above the mountain, both sides never clarified positions - just guessed where is the position of A/C, non standard communication phraseology (not their fault though). Pilots had kid in cockpit who distracted them during briefing, I will say the fault is more on PF side since he flew 1st time to very difficult airport but he took task lightly (probably hoped that 9000 HRS logged is good enough credit to make it through). It was not simply his day. RIP all victims.
@@robrob9050 Indeed. When you think it together it´s really a horrible setting, waiting for such a Crash to happen!
Lots of love and support from India 🇮🇳 ❤️
Imagine putting holding pattern around mountains when you can easily have it safely above sea with no dangerous mountains around.
Indeed - and this was an important contributing Factor to the Accident.
From what I am hearing from the comments, you should reconsider Better Help :)
Sounds like they ain't gonna get many takers from this channel!
You single handedly made me love Aviation....Thank You....
Thank YOU for being here!
@@MentourPilotyah you’re ignoring all the negative comments, hope you find a way to find better sponsors
the detail on these recreations is getting better and better every episode
I remember that some people living only few kilometers away were on that flight.... Thank you for the video! Regards from Slovenia!
I feel quite fortunate that at our airline (austrian) it is still allowed to carry friends and family in the flightdeck (ofc being properly briefed)
As long as they are personally very well known to one of the flight crew
I'm still in complete awe of how well produced these episodes are. Really well done and thank you
I've only flown gliders, but it surprises me much that max power and max climb were not an obvious reaction to "terrain" and "pull up".
I read different material about this tragedy and understood that pilots were not too familiar with plane and warnings surprised them.
BETTERHELP IS UNETHICAL! NO MORE SPONSORSHIPS 🙅🏽🙅🏽
Cry about it
@@bradsanders407 A BetterHelp stan? JFC, dude. Sad.
Mentour will sponsor ISIS if they paid him good...nord vpn protecting you? The biggest lie on the internet...lying old dudes for profit...betterhelp helping you? Hahah that is not a lie that is more like a joke
germanwings pilot should have found a therapist
@@eddycarpenter8989 Yes a qualified one and medication, namely antipsychotics. He had no business flying a liner. Also sponsorship deals can be very lucrative for big channels and often involve multiple video deals. So like say a big channel may get 100k from Established Titles for 10 videos. So he probably has a bunch left or he has to pay them back if he drops the sponsor before the contract is over. Especially the scammy ones (Established Titels, the green drink, online psychs) can afford to pay so much it's basically an offer you can't refuse. I like to think I've got principles but having faced eviction and bankruptcy during the pandemic I would take this money... principles go out the window once you have angry letters from financial institutions. He's not hurting anyone, he's not advertising weapons or gambling. It's anyone's responsibility to do their due diligence when buying a product or service that was advertised to them. And a bad therapist can ruin your life. I was misdiagnosed and spent 5 years doped up until I went to another doctor who was horrified, took me off narcotics and on amphetamine and suddenly my life is getting better again. I can work, do my hobbies etc... and that was a qualified person that made a mistake. It's not an easy diagnosis, many things look similar. So having a completely unqualified therapist is frightening. So I guess that's a long way of saying I neither agree nor disagree.
Amazingly, the Better Help ad is diminishing Mentour's hard work on this video about Adria Flight 1308. It's a sad shame given that it is a scam.
As a Serb (former Yugoslav), I thank You greatly for this episode! This incident was up until this point not known to me.
Thank You for all the videos, they are all great! Been subscriber for a few years now.
Stay well.
Kind Regards
I feel like we all love your channel, and I’m not against any therapy that works for you. Maybe betterhelp worked for you, but it seems like there are many viewers that don’t have a favourable opinion. I’ve seen some comments about “therapists” vs “psychologists”, but they both have their place. I don’t take issue with either, however I’m not a fan of psychiatrists. I would suggest you revisit your support of this particular sponsor based on how many negative reviews have been given, regardless of whatever positive interactions you may have had. It seems like you’re attracting negative attention, and I’d like to think you promote things that are a positive experience for most people.
Stop with the betterhelp sponsor. Thank you ❤
Stop with the spamming. Thank you! 😊
Small mistake about the captain, you said he has 9,000 hours on DC-9 but the text says ~5,000.
I absolutely love your videos dude i think I've watched every single one from the past 2 years and this is the only mistake I've ever noticed, bravo!!
& a big mistake in sponsor.
Not that Mentour Pilot cares, it's all about the money seemingly. Not a single reaction to all the comment section's questioning this sponsor, only interactions with those who don't mention it...
@@salis-salis he's almost certainly signed into a contract that requires him to provide so many sponsor segments. It's only recently that Better Help has been under scrutiny, we can't fault a man for something he may not have known.
Also, just don't use the service. He has to get paid to continue making such high quality content. Now if I'm wrong and there's no contract and he keeps taking money from a scam company then I agree with you 100 percent
Im from Ljubljana (Slovenia) and its sad to hear that story but thank you for covering one from my country :)
I was a young journalist in Belgrade with many connections in Slovenia at the moment of tragedy. It had a big impact on the public level. The whole country had declared an official day of mourning, perhaps Slovenia even two days. A leftest magazine in Ljubljana headline read "The End of Slovenian Consumerism", but seen from this time distance it was toxic, cruel and misplaced. Now for the first time I've learned what had really happened and why. Thanks, Petter. Haven't watched your videos for a couple of years. You used to take more trouble to explain some specific terms to us laymen before in an easy way, so I find it more difficult to keep up the narrative now. But your graphic charts are better than ever!
It makes me sad that cockpits have gotten so locked off. I have fond memories of being taken up to meet the captain as a small child on my first flight.
Here to watch this, sounds like another story I haven't heard of
and a sponsor we all have heard of... unfortunately. Petter doesn't care tho, he counts the money, and doesn't mind sending his audience to scammers.
@salis-salis he is probably under a contract and cant do much besides wait untill it runs out
Dudes gonna get himself cancelled over an ad slot xD
Who cares? Many will be happy when the dudes who endlessly comment on an ad will finally be gone.
@@teachersusan3730Just how bad would a company have to be before you do care, I wonder?
I really wish that youtubers would actually research the companies they get sponsorship deals from before accepting them
A gentle suggestion Petter: Please check your mic connection. At times your speech glitches, and it may give the wrong impression that our earphones are faulty. If the mic is wireless, please check battery and receiver status. If it's wired check the cable.
Top notch take on a lesser analyzed case. 😊
Condolences to all affected by this tragedy.
I have never used Better Help, but the dissemination of information is one of the best benefits of the internet. Reviews on products, companies and sponsors help end users like us make good decisions. Petter is a good guy and I've been a sub for several years now. I'm sure he'll take your comments and perform his due diligence.
All that being said, great video Petter
I agree. He is a good guy. I have never used them either; however, Petter has used them, and he said he was happy with them. So he has chosen a sponsor whose services he tried and liked, and he did research on them. And he already explained all of this in a previous video. At this point, they are just spam comments.
@@ditzygypsy Please note the FTC had enough actual evidence, not personal anecdotes but evidence, to find them guilty of stealing patients info and selling it. Just a note.
It's really mind blowing to me how they took so long to go full thrust and pull the nose up after the GPWS started blaring. I mean, that alarm alone shouldn't give you any doubts, especially not when you're in the clouds! Thank you for sharing this video!!! Love your content!!!
Been watching for about a year now!! Love the videos.. very educational and informative.. thank you for your hard work!! Love from South Carolina..
Super well explained and illustrated.
Thanks!
As soon as you mentioned the holding pattern near the mountains, I was wondering why they didn’t put the holding pattern over the sea.
Amazing video Petter and rhe rest of the Mentour Pilot Team! It is very unfortunate the series of events that caused this tragedy.