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So my two cents having gotten 3 different classes to over lvl 10 and taken all 3 of them to Daragal, Highwayman Hills, and Oakenbane. What I think will be likely to happen is one of two things, the Augment will either take from the "Essential" part of the other class to augment their "Supporting" part of their primary class, or it will be the opposite where they will take the "Supporting" part of the secondary class to augment their "Essential" part. What do I mean by "Essential" and "Supporting"? Lets take tank for example, Tank is quite simple, the "Essential" part of the class is the Aggro, and what supports that Aggro generation is twofold, its the CC which a Tank generates and its the Defensiveness which it prioritizes. Lets look at Bard then, and try to see what a Tank/Bard may end up looking like. For Bard, the Essential part is the Mana generation, while what supports that is giving the team members more ways to use it, helping either the Survivability of the team through Healing, Shields, and the like or helping the Damage of the team. So in the case which there is a Tank/Bard, what will likely happen is one of two things, either there will be more ways for the Tank/Bard to generate more Mana while using CC or being Defensive, or it will allow for the Tank/Bard to be something simular to the Herald from Guild Wars 2, where in generating Aggro through different ways, a "song" or something equivilant is played around them to support the front line. In this case, I am more leaning towards the later personally, especially since there is supposed to be 4 types of augments per class. So it will likely introduce Dances, Melodies, Songs, and Stories into the Tank, and allow for ways that they can generate more Aggro while still being very Tank, so I am expecting more ways to either Survive or use CC. The reason why I think it will end up being shown this way, is it will keep the Primary Class as important, as no other class will have Aggro generation outside of the primary Tank in this case. There may be some off-tanks in other classes which just have a bunch of defenses or something, and they could go the gw2 route there with how Toughness itself generates threat, but idk if they will or not. All three classes though seem to have an essential part to the kit, in how that class works and then everything supports it, typically two different ways. The third class I have played is Fighter, and even there is seems to be the same, where its a focus on "On-Hit" effects whether it be through making sure you are continuing to auto attack and proc your finishers, or whether its from sheer AOE and hitting multiple enemies. Either way, it will be interesting to see how things play out, but I think they will take some Thematic way the Class handles itself within the Supporting part of the secondary Archetype and smack it on top of the Essential part of the primary archetype. Especially seeing as there is already threat generation from Cleric or Bard doing heals and shielding(as there should be) and from damage, it could also expand on that in a way where for a Tank/Bard due to their support to the team, would be generating more threat than before.
They've been clear about this for a long time though. and I get it for balancing reasons too. I think I'm falling into the trap of getting excited about the out of combat skills and the party leader skills. but we all have our thing
I mean they’ll HAVE to edit the abikities a fair amount Like you can’t have one summoner be a ‘beast master’ and the other be a whole ass necromancer without changing abilities heavily And no I don’t think they’ll just reskin the same ability, I’m hopeful that they’ll make them work differently on an almost fundamental level for at least SOME abikties
I appreciate you putting this out. I hear lots of people talking about 64 classes. There are 8 classes with 8 slight flavor variations each. A fighter with a tank secondary archetype might be a bit beefier in PvP or able to off-tank somewhat better in PvE. However, they will never be a tank or completely substitute a tank. I look forward to the release of summoner the most to see what it really turns out to be and what its secondary archetype adds to everyone. Thanks for the good work.
I've been having a blast kiting people/mobs as a bard and am excited to try a Bard/Ranger to see if I can get even more snares/mobility from ranger. We will see how it turns outs
I've been having a blast going into melee with a greatsword as a bard, and hopeful that bard/fighter can open that up more. The changes to resonant weapon hurt that playstyle... Hopeful that bard/fighter can generate resonance with basic attacks.
I was kind of expecting a more in-depth dive into the topic, rather than just reading a few lines off of wiki and then putting personal interpretation of what it means - but rushing through it, and not really exploring the topic more. I think you are sort of downplaying the impact augments will have on the base archetype. Whether it's intentional, or just comes off as that, due to short video length, idk. - Yes, some people that aren't that informed, are expecting something else. I do agree with that. But... Basically, if we take Steven's examples with certain abilities, we can see how they can meaningfully change your class. The thing people tend to overlook is the importance of visual and sound design of an ability. If augments manage to change that aspect, then it's going to be a huge thing. We already do have some "confirmations", that augments will sometimes change the visuals. So after that, we can only speculate, and I guess theorize about how it's going to look like. My interpretation is, that the base class is always your primary role, however, you can adjust how your class looks, plays, and feels with augments, and you can shift it more towards your secondary. Example: Fighter + Mage (secondary) - Melee dps, right? Well, your whirlwind ability can now turn into Ice Whirlwind if you use ice augment (Throne and Liberty example, devastating tornado which is just your regular spin to win ability, turns into ice whirlwind, once you use the correct trait). Actually I feel like the augment system might do similar things to what traits do in T&L). Now it actually deals magic or ice damage, and not physical damage. You are still a melee class, but damage type has changed, maybe you apply chill on hit now, and visually it looks different. Now if you can do that to, let's say 60% of your class kit, then it's great. You have ability to create something unique that will stand out, and not play like every other Fighter class. The only question is, how in-depth is it actually going to be, and how many abilities will you be able to change that way. That's something we do not know, and we don't have any examples - probably because they still haven't figured it out completely, and are just starting to actually make.
If on my Fighter archetype I augment Mage, my class is now Spellsword. If on my Cleric archetype I augment Figher, my class is now Templar. Even with minor changes a Protector will feel different from a Shadow Disciple. Enough to warrant it being a totally different class. It feels like Archeage lite in terms of classes. Which is I'm sure exactly what they were going for.
shadow blade, I can't wait to how it woks and what augments my skills, just seeing the name make me think that some of my skill will fade me in and out of combat kind of like a wraith
We also know clerics have life and death augments. You missed that in your list, which was otherwise complete. We also know that the warlock can turn fireball into a small elemental.
This video summarized in one sentence "Augments will make your ability different, maybe, kind of, a bit, or sometimes a lot" This is why I just ignore AoC development until there's gameplay footage 😅
Between the hype of the class and player housing system I was looking forward to this game. That was 4 years ago, and with all the hype turning out to be all sizzle and no steak I think I'm just done with MMO's. Everything about the game's fundamental systems has turned me off of it and probably the whole genre as well. I think I'd rather just play a well made single player game that has some real heart than deal with the state of MMO's anymore.
I wonder what a Fighter / Fighter class would look like. I know its called a Weapon Master but i'm not sure how it'll impact my gameplay even more than what the fighter already has.
Would've made more sense to say there will be 64 class "specialisations", rather than 64 "classes". To be frank I did expect the class system to be like Archeage where you you start as one class or talent tree and then freely spec into a different class/talent tree and just mix and mash the abilties of those classes.
If you are going to give me a necromancer class, for example, which doesn't feel like a necromancer from both visual and mechanical standpoint, you are going to get some major pushback.
Secondary augments are going to be a balancing nightmare. How do you make all of those secondary augments without making some so lame that nobody cares, and some that are so OP that it forms a new meta that everyone must have? I suspect that Steven will err on the side of lame rather than over powered.
From what i heard, it won't be easy to do. A whole quest you have to do and they say it'll take time. They might let us switch around easier during alpha/beta though. Hopefully.
You really think that devs would give you threat generators with tank augment when you are mage? That was rhetorical question. If anything they will give you just an option to mitigate damage in different way.
I mean, it's not out of the scope, though it's probably be more of a Summoner/Cleric thing rather than Cleric/Summoner. Summoner primary is the one that's summoning stuff. Just like I hope Summoner/Mage will be able to summon elementals (fire/air/ice).
@@_Diktatorsummoner cleric is listed as ‘necromancer’ so I feel it will be more of a ‘life drain’ summon and will heal through lifesteal and stuff, maybe summons will be zombies and skeletons too But I feel like ‘smite’ style holy effects will not be applicable to a summoner-cleric build? I think for ‘holy summoner’ you’d have to go cleric as primary and the summoner augments would be like ‘after hitting summons a pet that does x’?
@@pandemoniumcrow It depends really. We really will have to wait and see. Class names possibly don't mean much. Usually, augments will create alternate versions of spells, not entirely new spells. So unless Cleric gets a summoning type spell, I don't think we will see summons that will go around and heal people. Summoner/Cleric absolutely can do that, however it doesn't mean it's going to use "holy" spells to do so. It can absolutely have a healing minion/summon though. Then again, maybe there will be augmentation option where you can turn your Summoner into something like a Holy summoner. We will get 4 augment options per class after all, so one could focus on "holy" spells, other could focus on death, etc.
That would be shaman and I have been bothering intrepid on forums demanding totems for that class. XD Something tells me that with summoner augment you will be able to have pets, but they wont be permanent. Like they will maybe last 30 seconds or something...
Games been in development for 7 years with monthly livestreams for all 7 years, talking about its planned features. It’s not insider info, it’s been known 🤦♂️
Every “this is how it actually works” has been stated from Intrepid numerous times over the last 7 years, and you’re welcome to go verify that information
This generation of gamers like it fast and simple. Ritchie does well to cut straight to the point and talk about what the video is titled. Nothing wrong with how he talks.
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@@RitchieSH oh I've been seeing Ignorance is BiS. Great name, didn't know it was your guild.
So my two cents having gotten 3 different classes to over lvl 10 and taken all 3 of them to Daragal, Highwayman Hills, and Oakenbane. What I think will be likely to happen is one of two things, the Augment will either take from the "Essential" part of the other class to augment their "Supporting" part of their primary class, or it will be the opposite where they will take the "Supporting" part of the secondary class to augment their "Essential" part. What do I mean by "Essential" and "Supporting"? Lets take tank for example, Tank is quite simple, the "Essential" part of the class is the Aggro, and what supports that Aggro generation is twofold, its the CC which a Tank generates and its the Defensiveness which it prioritizes. Lets look at Bard then, and try to see what a Tank/Bard may end up looking like. For Bard, the Essential part is the Mana generation, while what supports that is giving the team members more ways to use it, helping either the Survivability of the team through Healing, Shields, and the like or helping the Damage of the team. So in the case which there is a Tank/Bard, what will likely happen is one of two things, either there will be more ways for the Tank/Bard to generate more Mana while using CC or being Defensive, or it will allow for the Tank/Bard to be something simular to the Herald from Guild Wars 2, where in generating Aggro through different ways, a "song" or something equivilant is played around them to support the front line.
In this case, I am more leaning towards the later personally, especially since there is supposed to be 4 types of augments per class. So it will likely introduce Dances, Melodies, Songs, and Stories into the Tank, and allow for ways that they can generate more Aggro while still being very Tank, so I am expecting more ways to either Survive or use CC. The reason why I think it will end up being shown this way, is it will keep the Primary Class as important, as no other class will have Aggro generation outside of the primary Tank in this case. There may be some off-tanks in other classes which just have a bunch of defenses or something, and they could go the gw2 route there with how Toughness itself generates threat, but idk if they will or not. All three classes though seem to have an essential part to the kit, in how that class works and then everything supports it, typically two different ways. The third class I have played is Fighter, and even there is seems to be the same, where its a focus on "On-Hit" effects whether it be through making sure you are continuing to auto attack and proc your finishers, or whether its from sheer AOE and hitting multiple enemies.
Either way, it will be interesting to see how things play out, but I think they will take some Thematic way the Class handles itself within the Supporting part of the secondary Archetype and smack it on top of the Essential part of the primary archetype. Especially seeing as there is already threat generation from Cleric or Bard doing heals and shielding(as there should be) and from damage, it could also expand on that in a way where for a Tank/Bard due to their support to the team, would be generating more threat than before.
There aint no way the augments are going to live up to people’s expectations
I just want to be a mage tank or a flame swordsman
100% accurate
They've been clear about this for a long time though. and I get it for balancing reasons too. I think I'm falling into the trap of getting excited about the out of combat skills and the party leader skills. but we all have our thing
I mean they’ll HAVE to edit the abikities a fair amount
Like you can’t have one summoner be a ‘beast master’ and the other be a whole ass necromancer without changing abilities heavily
And no I don’t think they’ll just reskin the same ability, I’m hopeful that they’ll make them work differently on an almost fundamental level for at least SOME abikties
rogue /mage rogue /cleric :D i wanna be a cultist
I appreciate you putting this out. I hear lots of people talking about 64 classes. There are 8 classes with 8 slight flavor variations each.
A fighter with a tank secondary archetype might be a bit beefier in PvP or able to off-tank somewhat better in PvE. However, they will never be a tank or completely substitute a tank.
I look forward to the release of summoner the most to see what it really turns out to be and what its secondary archetype adds to everyone. Thanks for the good work.
I've been having a blast kiting people/mobs as a bard and am excited to try a Bard/Ranger to see if I can get even more snares/mobility from ranger. We will see how it turns outs
I've been having a blast going into melee with a greatsword as a bard, and hopeful that bard/fighter can open that up more.
The changes to resonant weapon hurt that playstyle... Hopeful that bard/fighter can generate resonance with basic attacks.
It's my preferred way to do augments. Being mostly flavor and secondary effects so that you can play around with your build some.
I was kind of expecting a more in-depth dive into the topic, rather than just reading a few lines off of wiki and then putting personal interpretation of what it means - but rushing through it, and not really exploring the topic more.
I think you are sort of downplaying the impact augments will have on the base archetype. Whether it's intentional, or just comes off as that, due to short video length, idk.
- Yes, some people that aren't that informed, are expecting something else. I do agree with that. But...
Basically, if we take Steven's examples with certain abilities, we can see how they can meaningfully change your class. The thing people tend to overlook is the importance of visual and sound design of an ability. If augments manage to change that aspect, then it's going to be a huge thing.
We already do have some "confirmations", that augments will sometimes change the visuals.
So after that, we can only speculate, and I guess theorize about how it's going to look like.
My interpretation is, that the base class is always your primary role, however, you can adjust how your class looks, plays, and feels with augments, and you can shift it more towards your secondary.
Example: Fighter + Mage (secondary) - Melee dps, right? Well, your whirlwind ability can now turn into Ice Whirlwind if you use ice augment
(Throne and Liberty example, devastating tornado which is just your regular spin to win ability, turns into ice whirlwind, once you use the correct trait). Actually I feel like the augment system might do similar things to what traits do in T&L).
Now it actually deals magic or ice damage, and not physical damage. You are still a melee class, but damage type has changed, maybe you apply chill on hit now, and visually it looks different.
Now if you can do that to, let's say 60% of your class kit, then it's great. You have ability to create something unique that will stand out, and not play like every other Fighter class.
The only question is, how in-depth is it actually going to be, and how many abilities will you be able to change that way. That's something we do not know, and we don't have any examples - probably because they still haven't figured it out completely, and are just starting to actually make.
Wow. I wasn't aware of the racial, religious and organization augments. Thats kind of awesome.
That's the right way to do it though! SO MUCH EASIER TO BALANCE. Plus the simplicity is nice.
If on my Fighter archetype I augment Mage, my class is now Spellsword.
If on my Cleric archetype I augment Figher, my class is now Templar.
Even with minor changes a Protector will feel different from a Shadow Disciple. Enough to warrant it being a totally different class.
It feels like Archeage lite in terms of classes. Which is I'm sure exactly what they were going for.
shadow blade, I can't wait to how it woks and what augments my skills, just seeing the name make me think that some of my skill will fade me in and out of combat kind of like a wraith
We also know clerics have life and death augments. You missed that in your list, which was otherwise complete.
We also know that the warlock can turn fireball into a small elemental.
I had that on my script too, idk how i managed to cut that lol
It's an important once because that's why the summoner/cleric is a necromancer - which is the #1 most popular combination on most polls.
This video summarized in one sentence
"Augments will make your ability different, maybe, kind of, a bit, or sometimes a lot"
This is why I just ignore AoC development until there's gameplay footage 😅
Between the hype of the class and player housing system I was looking forward to this game. That was 4 years ago, and with all the hype turning out to be all sizzle and no steak I think I'm just done with MMO's.
Everything about the game's fundamental systems has turned me off of it and probably the whole genre as well. I think I'd rather just play a well made single player game that has some real heart than deal with the state of MMO's anymore.
What kind of graphics card are you using, looks really good.
@@unchained007 4060 TI
@@unchained007 I would like to know as well
Any idea how choosing the same class effects skills? For example, rogue+rogue=assassin. Is there a benefit to that vs another class?
I wonder what a Fighter / Fighter class would look like. I know its called a Weapon Master but i'm not sure how it'll impact my gameplay even more than what the fighter already has.
Would've made more sense to say there will be 64 class "specialisations", rather than 64 "classes". To be frank I did expect the class system to be like Archeage where you you start as one class or talent tree and then freely spec into a different class/talent tree and just mix and mash the abilties of those classes.
If you are going to give me a necromancer class, for example, which doesn't feel like a necromancer from both visual and mechanical standpoint, you are going to get some major pushback.
Have u not seen the "trailer" for necromancer? U will have 2 types to pick. One is a antagonist type that uses zombies the other isn't
@@synopz7115 Interesting. I didn't see it.
Secondary augments are going to be a balancing nightmare. How do you make all of those secondary augments without making some so lame that nobody cares, and some that are so OP that it forms a new meta that everyone must have? I suspect that Steven will err on the side of lame rather than over powered.
Will the secondary archetypes be able to be changed to try out other specs for your main?
Yes the secondary’s can be changed but your primary will be locked in
@@RitchieSH Thanks for the info.
From what i heard, it won't be easy to do. A whole quest you have to do and they say it'll take time. They might let us switch around easier during alpha/beta though. Hopefully.
i expect summoner to play alot like FF summoner and nothing like a WoW warlock
Who would choose a mage with threat generators? This class system is probably gonna get thrown out before launch.
Thats one thing that would make me quit the game. Augments system is a sole reason I am giving it a chance.
You really think that devs would give you threat generators with tank augment when you are mage? That was rhetorical question. If anything they will give you just an option to mitigate damage in different way.
I was hoping cleric/summoner would summon a healing helper lol
That would be pretty fun honestly
I mean, it's not out of the scope, though it's probably be more of a Summoner/Cleric thing rather than Cleric/Summoner.
Summoner primary is the one that's summoning stuff.
Just like I hope Summoner/Mage will be able to summon elementals (fire/air/ice).
@@_Diktatorsummoner cleric is listed as ‘necromancer’ so I feel it will be more of a ‘life drain’ summon and will heal through lifesteal and stuff, maybe summons will be zombies and skeletons too
But I feel like ‘smite’ style holy effects will not be applicable to a summoner-cleric build? I think for ‘holy summoner’ you’d have to go cleric as primary and the summoner augments would be like ‘after hitting summons a pet that does x’?
@@pandemoniumcrow It depends really. We really will have to wait and see.
Class names possibly don't mean much. Usually, augments will create alternate versions of spells, not entirely new spells. So unless Cleric gets a summoning type spell, I don't think we will see summons that will go around and heal people.
Summoner/Cleric absolutely can do that, however it doesn't mean it's going to use "holy" spells to do so. It can absolutely have a healing minion/summon though.
Then again, maybe there will be augmentation option where you can turn your Summoner into something like a Holy summoner.
We will get 4 augment options per class after all, so one could focus on "holy" spells, other could focus on death, etc.
That would be shaman and I have been bothering intrepid on forums demanding totems for that class. XD
Something tells me that with summoner augment you will be able to have pets, but they wont be permanent. Like they will maybe last 30 seconds or something...
but u also got to consider that ur mage is only max lv 25 so he will have more skills later, so u cant fully say yet, it feels to generic
I can though. In its current state, the mage feels generic lol. I’m not talking about its future state, I’m talking about how it feels right now
In this case I hope they add more skills to the base classes, because right now... their aint much....
Base kits will be getting many more skills in the future, this is a very early tree for level 25
@@RitchieSH good to know! thanks!
unless youve got insider info this title is clickbait
Games been in development for 7 years with monthly livestreams for all 7 years, talking about its planned features. It’s not insider info, it’s been known 🤦♂️
Ranger/Mage = Scion
Every “this is how it actually works” you mentioned you completely made up. Nobody has any idea how they will work.
Every “this is how it actually works” has been stated from Intrepid numerous times over the last 7 years, and you’re welcome to go verify that information
basically just my post on reddit :P
@@emmanuell89 link it! I tend to avoid Reddit unless I’m in the mood to troll people 😂
Jesus you talk fast, whats the rush? Calm down!
Its cuz of the younger gens and their 3 sec attention span
Seems fine to me?
This generation of gamers like it fast and simple. Ritchie does well to cut straight to the point and talk about what the video is titled. Nothing wrong with how he talks.
It’s better on 1.25x you can slow it down too