I am (was) a physically healthy 53 year old woman. The moment I allowed myself to see the depth and breadth of suffering I have experienced in my life that was until then hidden to me (not the events but the suffering itself) I had an actual heart attack. That was 2 weeks ago. It was the compassionate part of me that had emerged and was overcome with shock and grief. This podcast has been one of my healing lifelines since then, and my most hopeful takeaway from this episode, and one which I can wholeheartedly (pun intended) attest to is this (somewhat paraphrased): “When you get the one on board who has compassion for your body and find the part of you that is aligned with your body, that is the wise, nurturing figure that you perhaps never had modelled to you, and when that part that loves you unconditionally, with compassion recognizes that you are suffering and wants to help you from that place rather than wanting to punish you for suffering, that’s when MASSIVE amounts of healing happens.” So much gratitude for your podcast, your curiosity and generosity of heart 🙏💕
Thank you for sharing. I had an emotional release through vagal nerve music and work (look up polyvagal) and chiropractic care, and I have been deeply exhausted since. I thought maybe something was wrong but you saying your body reacted so strongly has made me think that maybe it’s normal for the body to finally accept all that has happened and react accordingly
Sadness, anger, rage, feelings of futility, etc, are all there for a reason! I’m learning to release them by listening to my body. I had my first catharsis 30 years ago, and it was the beginning of my healing. I am now 71 and I finally have time to work on reclaiming even deeper parts of myself, my very young self, that, Dr. Gabor Maté describes as the parts of ourselves that were suppressed, in order to be able to cope with the pain endured as a vulnerable and sensitive young child. This has taken courage and perseverance, especially when surrounded by many people who do not have the courage to look at what has happened in the past. But I feel that I am the lucky one because I am now able to come out of the darkness.
The entire section about Elizabeth's experience with anger describes my experience to a T. So glad to have a therapist validate this using their own personal experience. Its been so helpful in many ways. Thank you so much for this podcast.
This podcast has saved my life, honestly. Elizabeth is so validating, I thought I had been dealing with my anger in a bad way since I have finally started to release it, but she helped me realize I’ve been on the right path. I hope to be a somatic practitioner in my future, no talk therapy has helped the way even one deep breathing somatic practice has. Ultimate CPTSD tool.
OMG, she is awesome and I hope this approach becomes more mainstream SOON thank you. I'm a huge Dr Rick Hanson fan! I just learned I have cognitively bypassed...
If my trauma therapist did things this way my therapy would’ve gone a lot better!!! when she used CBT when I was in the middle of a trauma reaction that was the beginning of the end for us.
One of the things that is challenging about finding a “good fit” therapist is that there are SO many “tools”, modalities out there/available for therapists to learn. And it takes time, $ and interest for them to get trained in them, and then time for them to get experienced in using them. And different tools may be more effective than others, depending on the patient and the patient’s condition(s). If the therapist is mainly experienced in X tool, and you have found that tool X isn’t effective with you, that could be a problem…possibly mean finding a new therapist.
I've been seeing a CBT therapist for 6 months now and I broke up with her because I knew it's not meant to be where my cptsd is concerned. She was really cool about it and offered to support me until I find a somatic therapist.
Speaking of somatics, I would love if you'd interview someone in the field of Emotional Freedom Technique (clinical eft). I know there are studies showing it helps with tons of stuff, but the explanation of how it works doesn't seem fully set in stone and I'm personally getting the feeling that it simply works the cognitive and somatic together very well. I've recently added it to my toolkit and it is the most accessible tool next to meditation in my emergency coping skills for depressive episodes now.
Eft works by stimumating the frontal branch of the vagus nerve. That nerve is responsive to stimulation by socializing, and also by humming. The eft tapping is a rhythmic stimulus that triggers the vagus nerve to calm down. Basically all those things are what calm a baby down: gentle touch, eye contact/social interaction, physical closeness, humming and singing to it, moving it rhythmically etc .
Somatic Therapy really resonates with me. Thank you to Elizabeth for sharing her knowledge and learning.🙏🏻. My Grandmother's Hands is on my bookshelf! I agree that it's a fabulous book with excellent somatic practices within it. I appreciate you both!🥰
Now I have a better understanding of somatic experience and also IFS. I had a psychologist who told me about this but I didn't understand most of it. She confused me even more than I was already at that time when I was in a mental fog and lost about everything I was experiencing. I thank you both ❤
Thank you Elizabeth for the clarity of your explanations and clinical perspectives on somatic work. I specially liked the ending, when you talk about the ‘intolerance’ that we have developed towards our bodies: it was a brilliant explanation. I had an ‘aha’ instant. Lots of thoughts came to my mind about having a disconnection with or intolerance about our bodies; they seem to be the same, which in many respects it is true, but I am finding differences too. I’d love to hear more of what you have to say🙏 Haydee Windey
Oh my gosh! I have been wanting to find a therapist like Elizabeth for years. And I don't have anybody available to me hear that has her training and her tendency toward Attunement and what I can already feel just listening to her is a greater sense of safety than I have experience with my therapist. I wish I lived in California!
Your podcast- and the combination of compassion, intelligence, and wisdom I experience with you and Rick make SO much difference to me both personally and professionally, Thank you from my heart.
I love what I'm hearing and I'm also just so present to the fact that this type of therapy seems like its going to take a while (for me) to see any benefit. My manager is one tough angry SOB and I never feel safe.
Thank you Elizabeth. You're explaining how to unlock and connect with our exiled parts and referring to the manager in ourselves really helped me understand what walls I put up and why and had me walk through why it's hard to let myself expose those vulnerable, honest side of myself that wants to be heard. The way you talked about how you help your clients get to a safe place slowly had me realize that we often don't take enough time in society to provide that caring, judgmental space to allow a person to share their vulnerable parts of themselves. Day to day there is such a focus on external output, check lists, task oriented mindset that it doesn't allow for a slowing down of thought to welcome and engage with parts of ourselves or others that need time and attention on internal processing, internal connection and permission to take time for internal work. Thank you for giving permission to access our inner parts of.oueselves that need attention and connection and welcoming them to take up space so that we can move forward in healing and happiness. Thank you Elizabeth for your gentleness, calm voice and presence. I really appreciated the information you shared. And thank you Forrest for hosting this podcast and leading the discussion. Your energy between the 2 of you was so calm and balanced.
Great convo! I'm in SE therapy for the past year and it's the most suited to my pre-verbal trauma. But I also have psilocybin/MDMA underground therapy once a month and I can access so much more of the trauma with psychedelics. Would love to hear a podcast that combines these 2 methods in some way.
I just love how Elizabeth explains the somatic experience ... I am travelling through some traumatic experiences at this time and her explanations, from a personal standpoint, helps me feel more normal - and of course there is a range of normal ... Thank you Forest, as always I love your approach ...
Hi Forrest & Elizabeth. Just listened to your podcast yesterday and really enjoyed it. I recently was recommended by a dear friend who does talk therapy (e.g.Terry Real RLT) to do somatic work around my C-PTS with a very amazing local woman who practices Jin Shin Tara. Essentially using 5 Elements Theory and Acupressure points as well as pulse diagnosis to reveal and expose and release stored trauma. It consisted of 8 sessions (2x week for 1 month) and was profound at what I experienced during those sessions. Literally ground breaking stuff. When I became aware of the level of trauma I carried since birth I was committed to re-informing my experience as a human being from the "basement up". Not a plug by any means but I recently started a podcast (Evolution Sucks) revealing the level of my personal trauma in hopes of inspiring other men and women to share their own experiences. Somatic work around trauma is so crucial and thank you Elizabeth for the work you are doing! Forrest I have enjoyed your podcasts too especially with your Pops. Cheers - Jamie
Given how cognitive bypassing is so normalised or even expected in our culture, people don’t see it as coping mechanism. It feels satisfying to see it exposed for what it is when it’s shown side by side with the somatic practice. I feel vindicated - as someone who’s had their ‘feeling’ side shamed out of me, there’s a voice in my head that’s saying, “Ha, how the tables have turned!”
Hi Forrest. I loved this episode it felt like it lasted for 10min, I really like listening to you and Elizabeth. It resonates so much with me, I was studying CBT based counselling but healed so much of my own trauma and CPTSD with more mindfulness and somatic based approaches although I come form a small country in Europe and don't have access to therapists like Elizabeth. My survival mechanism was (is) to rationalise what was happening and I lived totally out of touch with my body for most of my life. I would really appreciate if you would do more episodes together I get so much out of them! Thank you.
I also went to CIIS (for expressive arts therapy), and I often think the somatics program would have been a great fit. This conversation validates that wondering. I’m going to come back to this over and over again. Elizabeth beautifully put into words some of the most important components of my own healing journey. I’m looking forward to learning more about somatic therapy
I watched many of your podcasts and I loved them all but this one here is more than a gold nugget - it triggered me…made me cry and gave me power to further follow my road of healing. I love it! your partner is amazing. you are amazing. Namaste🙏
Like some of the others who have commented, I tried CBT somewhat supervised by a therapist for almost 2 years right after a series of very traumatic events. It hasn’t really helped at all. It may have made things worse honestly because it was almost like I was re traumatizing myself all the time. It was so helpful how you two mentioned that if someone has had childhood trauma their brain has developed differently and CBT may not be very affective! Now I know more about why it wasn’t working for me which is helpful! My family is convinced I need to push myself more :-/ BUT I’ve been working with an amazing somatic therapist and it’s been helping a lot!! Thank you for all of this. Very helpful!! I’m going to keep watching your channel in the evenings instead of Downton Abbey and similar shows lol God bless!!!
I have a lot to say and some big feelings about what I heard in regards to cognitive behavior therapy... Thank you for providing me the opportunity. As an extreme trauma survivor, I have found somatic therapy, CBT, movement, and time in nature to be unequivocally necessary for my trauma recovery. In the trauma recovery world, these are known as pathways to recovery... Every single one of these pathways benefited me at different times in different ways until they all seem to blend together in the most beautiful and profound way. It is my hope that somatic therapists will slow down and take the time to honor the value of CBT and the way that it addresses negative core beliefs and thought distortions that are often held in the body. When one does CBT in its fullness, it is a very experiential therapy, one that provides titrated levels of exposure to our thoughts, emotions, and sensations. I share my thoughts here. Not only as an extreme trauma survivor, but also as a licensed mental health counselor who utilizes a blend of cognitive and somatic interventions in my practice for over 20 years. It feels important to me to encourage people to use their platform to highlight what is valuable, healing and supportive within cognitive therapies, somatic therapies, behavioral therapies, movement therapies, biofeedback therapies,, holistic modalities, etc. It is my hope that regardless of the modality that we choose to focus primarily on in our professional careers, that we will all remember that humans have the capacity for cognition because it's valuable, we have the capacity to track our somatic /interoceptive experience because it's valuable, we have the capacity for relational. attunement because it's valuable, We have the capacity to sense energetically because it's valuable, We have the capacity for spiritual connectivity because it's valuable... none of these are better than the other, they work collectively together in an integrated and holistic way. Having the capacity to integrate all of these modalities of experience is what makes us human. I've noticed sadness when I have been in somatic therapy trainings and are listened to somatic therapy podcasts and hear these professionals downgrading other professionals in the work that they do . Itis my hope for all somatic therapists to honor the beauty and benefits of cognitive therapies versus degrading them or talking negatively about them, especially if the somatic practitioner has not been fully trained in cognitive behavior therapy, behavioral activation, biofeedback methods, etc. Insurance provides reimbursement for therapies that have been researched and proven to be valuable. What that means is that enough participants in the research studies have reported value and benefit in their life as a result of experiencing cognitive behavior therapy. I do believe we need to honor the voices of the people who shared their feedback in this sort of research. At the same time, I am so excited to know that the more research that's done within the realm of somatic psychotherapy will inevitably lead to insurance reimbursement. Let's keep our fingers crossed and let's continue to support every mental health provider who dedicated their lives to helping others in their recovery from mental health related challenges. Uplifting one another is valuable, addressing negative core beliefs and thought distortions is necessary for our ongoing healing and recovery... Having a top down experience does not exclude a shift in the realm of our somatic experience. Thank you again for letting me share. This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I think that you're doing your best here on this platform to share what feels exciting and healing for you and your own experience, it is my hope that you will continue to honor, but other people have different experiences and that those are valuable too.
Completely understand where you're coming from here. To be clear, our intent wasn't to dump on CBT. CBT and other forms of cognitive therapy are literally the most research-validated approaches out there, and they've enormously benefitted many people. CBT is also the gold-standard intervention for PTSD; for example, I had Jason Kander on the show to talk about his experience with CBT for PTSD. But for many people out there CBT and other top-down forms of therapy are the only ones they're aware of or exposed to, and if they happen to be in the segment of the population who aren't as benefitted by those approaches they start to feel like "nothing works for them." Many people are shocked to learn that alternatives exist, and drawing some clear contrasts can be helpful. We were looser, more casual, and more severe with our language here than we could have been on reflection, and as you suggest some of this is based on Elizabeth's specific experience as someone who wasn't benefitted by CBT. I think you've beautifully expressed something we talk about on the podcast frequently: it's when we bring together all the different pieces that the magic really happens.
I absolutely agree. I am a trauma recovery coach and I tell my clients we have to incorporate both the cognitive and the body based pieces to wholly integrate everything. 80% of our brain tends towards somatics so it makes sense that this piece is important to start with. I, too, hope that insurance will incorporate the somatics piece into their coverage. We'd have a lot more healed people.
Wow !Im so glad I landed on this interview! I am absolutely riveted by the information and so incredibly impressed with this young woman’s approach , sense of compassion and intellect and on the subject. Great piece and to u guys just got a new subscriber, thank you!
I did an online 30 day session with The Workout Witch of healing trauma in the hips- Somatic healing and lost 9lbs. I felt so energized after letting go of old energy. A lot of crying and old energies came up in my 3D- I have continued to do the movements daily and feel so brand new!
Good questions, and the explanations are really clear and easy to understand I like your gentle approach too. Just starting to explore more around somatic work, as a holistic therapist of 9 years who offers massage, qigong and yoga nidra. Definitely feeling the pull towards diving in this direction more deeply. This was really helpful and informative.
Thank you so much for this segment. It really helped me get some better understanding re somatic psychology. (I recently switched to a therapist and physical therapist who use somatic experiencing.). Thank you.
Thanks Elizabeth and Forrest! Some great info here. I've known for awhile I needed somatic therapies but wasn't sure what pathways to look for rather than specific bodywork. CBT is not the way for me, so this has given me more understanding of how to access this type of therapy from a self led perspective, as there just isn't access to somatic therapists in our country and no funding if you find a rare one. Also so helpful to understand more how I can investigate what specific feelings and parts I've been exhiling ❤ Downloaded Grandmothers Hands now! Thank you.
Wonderful, thank-you both for another collaboration of sharing your wisdom and compassion. Both of you engage in some awesome transmutation and alchemy of energy. Greatly appreciated!
Yeah, regulating that insight is something I think really distinguishes effective therapists. Clinicians often have a fairly good sense of what's going on, or what might really benefit their client, in the first session or two. And then a big part of the process is getting the client to the point where they're prepped to receive that level of insight. Therapists have to regulate their own desire to "skip ahead" to the end to try to "fix" the problem as quickly as possible, because if you do that the client normally isn't ready and you're just going to activate their defenses. I can definitely think of some times in my own process when I just wasn't ready to "get" something about myself that ended up being pretty pivotal for me later on. That said, yeah, she's a very insightful person 😂
This was so good, on so many levels. I love your podcast, and I want more of this specific dialogue. Could you possibly do a Q&A with Elizabeth? On this topic? Your interview was great because it hit a lot of the questions that I have but I have so many more. Like, how can I tell the difference between disassociation and cognitive bypassing? I think I do both or is one an umbrella over the other? I'm like you in that I stay in the very intelligent part of my brain, and I have so much childhood trauma around not being allowed to feel feelings or Body Sensations, so it's very complex and I need help
I would love to see Dick Schwartz at your podcast and you guys have a nice more advanced conversation on IFS. That is missing on UA-cam. I cant think of a better person to do a deeper and more advanced conversation with Dick on this. I would be super grateful. Even if you didnt have Dick, maybe you and Elizabeth and Rick could do it. This was an awesome episode btw. Really loved it. And grateful for your work. More episodes on this topic with Elizabeth would also be wonderful.
Forrest has done an episode with Dick Schwartz. In June 2021. It is on podcast platforms. Perhaps there isn't a video of it. It is a fantastic interview.
@@sj4370 Thank you so much for that! I always listen to it here on youtube and didn't find it on the search, will def find the podcast on a platform and look for it! Thanks for telling me. :)
The "gold' standard in medicine often indicates the most cost effective routine diagnostic tool, lab, or therapy. It's almost as if insurance were defining it honestly, they'd say -- "Follow the gold standard and we will keep more of the gold (i.e. have higher profits).
Thank you guys this is wonderful. Just a question: are you talking about Somatic Experiencing or Somatic Psychotherapy in the US is something different? I’m Italian but living in the UK…
I'm not trained in the modality myself so I gotta be a bit careful about commenting on it. My (limited) understanding is that it does hold that feelings influence thoughts and thoughts influence feelings, but 99% of the interventions are trying to "get at" the thoughts. If you just stop the "pathogenic beliefs," the related feelings will go away. This is true to a degree, but even thinking about things that way at all requires a lot of cognizing - which isn't accessible to a lot of people.
In my experience of an acclaimed online course about somatic approach, there had been shared private information (distorted on the top) about me that had to be kept private due to the confidentiality obligation of therapist. These information had been been shared without my consent, publicly in front of many people and simultaneously recorded and being put in the platform of the The Brook Institute and subsequently sold. I had been publicly shamed in the live videos by Annie Brook. Annie Brook shared without my knowledge and without my consent some private information I might have been elaborating on in a private session with her that I paid for. She suddenly started to claim in the live videos publicly that I have apparently a mentally sick parent and this is why I am "CONFUSED" . Confused means less intelligent, possibly as well mentally sick. I wondered where Annie Brook had this statements from. Thus Annie Brook tried to shame me publicly with some distorted information that had the capacity to harm my reputation. Nobody likes to be shamed and told some lies about him in the public. These videos were recorded by Annie Brook and she must have been selling them to other people until today, more than one year. She has the videos available at her platform to anybody to see who has access to this platform. Despite me asking to put these videos down because of laws of private protection, it is assumed that she did not put them down. I asked Annie Brook to send a record of data she stores about me (she herself states this legal obligation of her in her website), but I had received no answer. Annie Brook seems not to need to follow the legal obligations. Further Annie Brook claimed about me in another video that when I am being bullied, it means that the bully wants to eliminate a weak person. As the animals naturally attack a weak member of the herd in order to make the herd healthier, so the bully does. Thus, in seeing this in this whole way, what Annie Brook wanted to claim about me publicly, is that this is proper to eliminate me. Eliminate like the animals do - which means to kill ? When I asked for repair, Annie Brook started to attacking me that "I am making this up " and that "I am projecting something" and " if I do not share her reality, I have nothing to do in The Brook Institute. Subsequently Annie Brook had removed my access to the platform I am still paying money for. I had pointed in an e-mail to Annie Brook some 20 points of misbehavior towards in those paid services. Annie Brook claimed that I am projecting it and it is a complete lie. Then Annie Brook went and changed her website and used my points, sometimes even literally my words. So her website suddenly showed that her therapists are actually not therapists, but coaches and are not registered nor licensed and are in fact just friends of Annie Brook. There showed up the information that Annie Brook helps folks with double binds and that she records the videos and that the purchaser has the right to ask her for personal records of data she stores about the person, the so called therapist who were hairdresser became a therapist within two weeks from my complaints. Her entire webpage had been rewritten. So, this is strange, when I was lying about the ethical misbehavior towards me, why did she made this effort to change her webpage so swiftly ? I have the impression that I had been chosen by Annie Brook like a animal to experiment on. She knew that I search a somatic approach, but she tried to implant some thoughts about me having some mental troubles/esp. apparently wanting to commit suicide/ in my head and she used all her stuff for it to do so. It is possibly not so often to get somebody so naiv, living in poor country far away from rich US, who has physical troubles and who has heard about somatic therapy, but never tried it before. It was probably very easy to lure me on the scholarship and force me to have sessions (paid by me) with her so called therapists (aka her friends as said her website later) and make the videos of me where she is showing me to to the others as an animal object, sharing many condescending information about me. Professional psychotherapeutic ethics does not say anything to Annie Brook, I suppose. She must know that I will have hard time to access the US legal forces from the place I live, with the money I have at my disposal and with physical disease. Good calculation. My first and only experience with somatic therapy had been very unsafe. All for my money I paid to Annie Brook. Thus as well, significant portion of money had been lured out of me by the fradulent representation of the work of Annie Brook
I know this is 10 days ago but I hope someone will see this and can answer. How long is each individual session? I am a Counselor myself and I don't like limiting my sessions to 60 minutes.
Hey Gladys, no worries I read most of the comments 😅 Somatic therapy is similar to other forms of therapy in that the length of sessions tends to vary from clinician to clinician. Elizabeth currently does 60 minute sessions, which is driven in part by the population she works with. Many of her clients come to her for CPTSD/trauma, and her experience is that people start to "max out" on that kind of work around the hour mark. I worked with a clinician who did 90 minute sessions, and I mostly really liked that.
I am (was) a physically healthy 53 year old woman. The moment I allowed myself to see the depth and breadth of suffering I have experienced in my life that was until then hidden to me (not the events but the suffering itself) I had an actual heart attack. That was 2 weeks ago. It was the compassionate part of me that had emerged and was overcome with shock and grief. This podcast has been one of my healing lifelines since then, and my most hopeful takeaway from this episode, and one which I can wholeheartedly (pun intended) attest to is this (somewhat paraphrased):
“When you get the one on board who has compassion for your body and find the part of you that is aligned with your body, that is the wise, nurturing figure that you perhaps never had modelled to you, and when that part that loves you unconditionally, with compassion recognizes that you are suffering and wants to help you from that place rather than wanting to punish you for suffering, that’s when MASSIVE amounts of healing happens.”
So much gratitude for your podcast, your curiosity and generosity of heart 🙏💕
Brilliant paraphrase! Thanks for sharing your experience. It gives me hope. Wishing you ongoing healing on your journey.
Thank you for sharing. I had an emotional release through vagal nerve music and work (look up polyvagal) and chiropractic care, and I have been deeply exhausted since. I thought maybe something was wrong but you saying your body reacted so strongly has made me think that maybe it’s normal for the body to finally accept all that has happened and react accordingly
This podcast is one of my go to now for trying to heal my CPTSD. Thank you guys for everything you're doing.
Me too! I love these guys! I'm now thriving instead of surviving as Pete Walker would say, with my CPTSD. Thank you so much.
Same
Good luck to you all dealing with trauma ❤ you are amazing for taking the time to learn about how to heal yourselves 😊
me too. good luck on your journey!
It’s incredibly validating to hear a therapist speak from their own personal growth experience!!!!!
🤗
I thought so too it amazing.
❤❤❤
Sadness, anger, rage, feelings of futility, etc, are all there for a reason! I’m learning to release them by listening to my body. I had my first catharsis 30 years ago, and it was the beginning of my healing. I am now 71 and I finally have time to work on reclaiming even deeper parts of myself, my very young self, that, Dr. Gabor Maté describes as the parts of ourselves that were suppressed, in order to be able to cope with the pain endured as a vulnerable and sensitive young child.
This has taken courage and perseverance, especially when surrounded by many people who do not have the courage to look at what has happened in the past. But I feel that I am the lucky one because I am now able to come out of the darkness.
All the love and goodness to you, Denise. You are inspiring ❤no matter what age we are, you show we can always grow and heal. Thank you❤
So nice to meet the beautiful and wise Elizabeth. Thank you for sharing the lovely dynamic that you have together.
The entire section about Elizabeth's experience with anger describes my experience to a T. So glad to have a therapist validate this using their own personal experience. Its been so helpful in many ways. Thank you so much for this podcast.
mine is the exact opposite. assuming you're angry instead of sad. there's definitely a racial element to it.
I just adore the two of you. Thanks for the great work you both do!
Such a beautiful episode, Elizabeth speaks so poetically and concisely! This was extremely helpful for me. Love your episodes together!
This podcast has saved my life, honestly. Elizabeth is so validating, I thought I had been dealing with my anger in a bad way since I have finally started to release it, but she helped me realize I’ve been on the right path. I hope to be a somatic practitioner in my future, no talk therapy has helped the way even one deep breathing somatic practice has. Ultimate CPTSD tool.
These words "the fear around the feeling" is mindblowing to me
OMG, she is awesome and I hope this approach becomes more mainstream SOON thank you. I'm a huge Dr Rick Hanson fan! I just learned I have cognitively bypassed...
If my trauma therapist did things this way my therapy would’ve gone a lot better!!! when she used CBT when I was in the middle of a trauma reaction that was the beginning of the end for us.
One of the things that is challenging about finding a “good fit” therapist is that there are SO many “tools”, modalities out there/available for therapists to learn. And it takes time, $ and interest for them to get trained in them, and then time for them to get experienced in using them. And different tools may be more effective than others, depending on the patient and the patient’s condition(s). If the therapist is mainly experienced in X tool, and you have found that tool X isn’t effective with you, that could be a problem…possibly mean finding a new therapist.
I've been seeing a CBT therapist for 6 months now and I broke up with her because I knew it's not meant to be where my cptsd is concerned. She was really cool about it and offered to support me until I find a somatic therapist.
I had one that kept pushing DBT, and I found it ridiculous and invalidating.
Speaking of somatics, I would love if you'd interview someone in the field of Emotional Freedom Technique (clinical eft). I know there are studies showing it helps with tons of stuff, but the explanation of how it works doesn't seem fully set in stone and I'm personally getting the feeling that it simply works the cognitive and somatic together very well. I've recently added it to my toolkit and it is the most accessible tool next to meditation in my emergency coping skills for depressive episodes now.
Eft works by stimumating the frontal branch of the vagus nerve. That nerve is responsive to stimulation by socializing, and also by humming. The eft tapping is a rhythmic stimulus that triggers the vagus nerve to calm down. Basically all those things are what calm a baby down: gentle touch, eye contact/social interaction, physical closeness, humming and singing to it, moving it rhythmically etc .
Thank you both for sharing your wisdom and intelligence so skillfully. ❤
Somatic Therapy really resonates with me. Thank you to Elizabeth for sharing her knowledge and learning.🙏🏻. My Grandmother's Hands is on my bookshelf! I agree that it's a fabulous book with excellent somatic practices within it. I appreciate you both!🥰
I appreciate you!
I love how you say “ partner”. I Can tell your relationship is mature. I’m almost 40 and y’all inspire me. Great podcast!
I learned so much. I wish I knew this when I was raising my children.
Wow, what a fantastic podcast. Thank yall so much!
Such an amazing interaction between you both. Thank you both for your time and effort to share this with us all.
Now I have a better understanding of somatic experience and also IFS. I had a psychologist who told me about this but I didn't understand most of it. She confused me even more than I was already at that time when I was in a mental fog and lost about everything I was experiencing.
I thank you both ❤
Thank you Elizabeth for the clarity of your explanations and clinical perspectives on somatic work. I specially liked the ending, when you talk about the ‘intolerance’ that we have developed towards our bodies: it was a brilliant explanation. I had an ‘aha’ instant. Lots of thoughts came to my mind about having a disconnection with or intolerance about our bodies; they seem to be the same, which in many respects it is true, but I am finding differences too. I’d love to hear more of what you have to say🙏
Haydee Windey
Wow... her words are like beautiful soothing magic! I'm thinking of moving to Cali just so I could work with her!
Oh my gosh! I have been wanting to find a therapist like Elizabeth for years. And I don't have anybody available to me hear that has her training and her tendency toward Attunement and what I can already feel just listening to her is a greater sense of safety than I have experience with my therapist. I wish I lived in California!
Your podcast- and the combination of compassion, intelligence, and wisdom I experience with you and Rick make SO much difference to me both personally and professionally, Thank you from my heart.
I love what I'm hearing and I'm also just so present to the fact that this type of therapy seems like its going to take a while (for me) to see any benefit. My manager is one tough angry SOB and I never feel safe.
Thank you Elizabeth. You're explaining how to unlock and connect with our exiled parts and referring to the manager in ourselves really helped me understand what walls I put up and why and had me walk through why it's hard to let myself expose those vulnerable, honest side of myself that wants to be heard. The way you talked about how you help your clients get to a safe place slowly had me realize that we often don't take enough time in society to provide that caring, judgmental space to allow a person to share their vulnerable parts of themselves. Day to day there is such a focus on external output, check lists, task oriented mindset that it doesn't allow for a slowing down of thought to welcome and engage with parts of ourselves or others that need time and attention on internal processing, internal connection and permission to take time for internal work. Thank you for giving permission to access our inner parts of.oueselves that need attention and connection and welcoming them to take up space so that we can move forward in healing and happiness. Thank you Elizabeth for your gentleness, calm voice and presence. I really appreciated the information you shared. And thank you Forrest for hosting this podcast and leading the discussion. Your energy between the 2 of you was so calm and balanced.
Great convo! I'm in SE therapy for the past year and it's the most suited to my pre-verbal trauma. But I also have psilocybin/MDMA underground therapy once a month and I can access so much more of the trauma with psychedelics.
Would love to hear a podcast that combines these 2 methods in some way.
I just love how Elizabeth explains the somatic experience ... I am travelling through some traumatic experiences at this time and her explanations, from a personal standpoint, helps me feel more normal - and of course there is a range of normal ... Thank you Forest, as always I love your approach ...
Hi Forrest & Elizabeth. Just listened to your podcast yesterday and really enjoyed it. I recently was recommended by a dear friend who does talk therapy (e.g.Terry Real RLT) to do somatic work around my C-PTS with a very amazing local woman who practices Jin Shin Tara. Essentially using 5 Elements Theory and Acupressure points as well as pulse diagnosis to reveal and expose and release stored trauma. It consisted of 8 sessions (2x week for 1 month) and was profound at what I experienced during those sessions. Literally ground breaking stuff. When I became aware of the level of trauma I carried since birth I was committed to re-informing my experience as a human being from the "basement up". Not a plug by any means but I recently started a podcast (Evolution Sucks) revealing the level of my personal trauma in hopes of inspiring other men and women to share their own experiences. Somatic work around trauma is so crucial and thank you Elizabeth for the work you are doing! Forrest I have enjoyed your podcasts too especially with your Pops. Cheers - Jamie
17:00 CBT viewed by many as the gold standard approach for behavioral issues... also for insurance 💪💪💯
Given how cognitive bypassing is so normalised or even expected in our culture, people don’t see it as coping mechanism. It feels satisfying to see it exposed for what it is when it’s shown side by side with the somatic practice. I feel vindicated - as someone who’s had their ‘feeling’ side shamed out of me, there’s a voice in my head that’s saying, “Ha, how the tables have turned!”
I can relate. Leaning into somatic psychology has reinforced my role as the black sheep 😂
Hi Forrest. I loved this episode it felt like it lasted for 10min, I really like listening to you and Elizabeth. It resonates so much with me, I was studying CBT based counselling but healed so much of my own trauma and CPTSD with more mindfulness and somatic based approaches although I come form a small country in Europe and don't have access to therapists like Elizabeth. My survival mechanism was (is) to rationalise what was happening and I lived totally out of touch with my body for most of my life. I would really appreciate if you would do more episodes together I get so much out of them! Thank you.
Great to see you guys together. Great work.
I love Elizabeth! She has such a sweet, gentle, grounding energy and a very soothing voice. I would totally listen to guided meditations from her.
Love coming across this Elizabeth! Feel so proud and excited for how your developing your work
Incorporation of the illogical. Love it!!!❤ Listening to Elizabeth is so soothing. Great podcast!
Great interview. All therapists should learn somatic therapy practices & I.F. systems.
I also went to CIIS (for expressive arts therapy), and I often think the somatics program would have been a great fit. This conversation validates that wondering. I’m going to come back to this over and over again. Elizabeth beautifully put into words some of the most important components of my own healing journey. I’m looking forward to learning more about somatic therapy
I watched many of your podcasts and I loved them all but this one here is more than a gold nugget - it triggered me…made me cry and gave me power to further follow my road of healing. I love it! your partner is amazing. you are amazing. Namaste🙏
👏👏👏👏👏 wow this was truly mindblowing. Thank you so much, Elizabeth!!
I am fully in that boat where i am going through intense and sad emotions, but i must ride out this storm to get to a healed side.
38:00
"There are no bad parts." 🌟
* looking at manager meaningfully.
Fantastic metaphors at the above time stamp. Let's get some revenue! 👏👏👏
Bring her back anytime please! Love if she had a regular spot. 👍
Like some of the others who have commented, I tried CBT somewhat supervised by a therapist for almost 2 years right after a series of very traumatic events. It hasn’t really helped at all. It may have made things worse honestly because it was almost like I was re traumatizing myself all the time.
It was so helpful how you two mentioned that if someone has had childhood trauma their brain has developed differently and CBT may not be very affective! Now I know more about why it wasn’t working for me which is helpful! My family is convinced I need to push myself more :-/
BUT I’ve been working with an amazing somatic therapist and it’s been helping a lot!!
Thank you for all of this. Very helpful!! I’m going to keep watching your channel in the evenings instead of Downton Abbey and similar shows lol
God bless!!!
Awesome- so interesting…. Just love this podcast… the dynamic between you two is fantastic and inspiring.❤
Great conversation, your summary at the end was very enlightening for me, thnx!!
Thank you for another very valuable conversation. Elizabeth has a wonderful way of explaining this stuff. You both are so great in doing what you do!
I have a lot to say and some big feelings about what I heard in regards to cognitive behavior therapy... Thank you for providing me the opportunity.
As an extreme trauma survivor, I have found somatic therapy, CBT, movement, and time in nature to be unequivocally necessary for my trauma recovery. In the trauma recovery world, these are known as pathways to recovery... Every single one of these pathways benefited me at different times in different ways until they all seem to blend together in the most beautiful and profound way.
It is my hope that somatic therapists will slow down and take the time to honor the value of CBT and the way that it addresses negative core beliefs and thought distortions that are often held in the body. When one does CBT in its fullness, it is a very experiential therapy, one that provides titrated levels of exposure to our thoughts, emotions, and sensations.
I share my thoughts here. Not only as an extreme trauma survivor, but also as a licensed mental health counselor who utilizes a blend of cognitive and somatic interventions in my practice for over 20 years. It feels important to me to encourage people to use their platform to highlight what is valuable, healing and supportive within cognitive therapies, somatic therapies, behavioral therapies, movement therapies, biofeedback therapies,, holistic modalities, etc.
It is my hope that regardless of the modality that we choose to focus primarily on in our professional careers, that we will all remember that humans have the capacity for cognition because it's valuable, we have the capacity to track our somatic /interoceptive experience because it's valuable, we have the capacity for relational. attunement because it's valuable, We have the capacity to sense energetically because it's valuable, We have the capacity for spiritual connectivity because it's valuable... none of these are better than the other, they work collectively together in an integrated and holistic way. Having the capacity to integrate all of these modalities of experience is what makes us human.
I've noticed sadness when I have been in somatic therapy trainings and are listened to somatic therapy podcasts and hear these professionals downgrading other professionals in the work that they do . Itis my hope for all somatic therapists to honor the beauty and benefits of cognitive therapies versus degrading them or talking negatively about them, especially if the somatic practitioner has not been fully trained in cognitive behavior therapy, behavioral activation, biofeedback methods, etc.
Insurance provides reimbursement for therapies that have been researched and proven to be valuable. What that means is that enough participants in the research studies have reported value and benefit in their life as a result of experiencing cognitive behavior therapy. I do believe we need to honor the voices of the people who shared their feedback in this sort of research.
At the same time, I am so excited to know that the more research that's done within the realm of somatic psychotherapy will inevitably lead to insurance reimbursement. Let's keep our fingers crossed and let's continue to support every mental health provider who dedicated their lives to helping others in their recovery from mental health related challenges. Uplifting one another is valuable, addressing negative core beliefs and thought distortions is necessary for our ongoing healing and recovery... Having a top down experience does not exclude a shift in the realm of our somatic experience.
Thank you again for letting me share. This is a topic near and dear to my heart. I think that you're doing your best here on this platform to share what feels exciting and healing for you and your own experience, it is my hope that you will continue to honor, but other people have different experiences and that those are valuable too.
Completely understand where you're coming from here.
To be clear, our intent wasn't to dump on CBT. CBT and other forms of cognitive therapy are literally the most research-validated approaches out there, and they've enormously benefitted many people. CBT is also the gold-standard intervention for PTSD; for example, I had Jason Kander on the show to talk about his experience with CBT for PTSD.
But for many people out there CBT and other top-down forms of therapy are the only ones they're aware of or exposed to, and if they happen to be in the segment of the population who aren't as benefitted by those approaches they start to feel like "nothing works for them." Many people are shocked to learn that alternatives exist, and drawing some clear contrasts can be helpful.
We were looser, more casual, and more severe with our language here than we could have been on reflection, and as you suggest some of this is based on Elizabeth's specific experience as someone who wasn't benefitted by CBT. I think you've beautifully expressed something we talk about on the podcast frequently: it's when we bring together all the different pieces that the magic really happens.
I absolutely agree. I am a trauma recovery coach and I tell my clients we have to incorporate both the cognitive and the body based pieces to wholly integrate everything. 80% of our brain tends towards somatics so it makes sense that this piece is important to start with. I, too, hope that insurance will incorporate the somatics piece into their coverage. We'd have a lot more healed people.
Wow !Im so glad I landed on this interview! I am absolutely riveted by the information and so incredibly impressed with this young woman’s approach , sense of compassion and intellect and on the subject.
Great piece and to u guys just got a new subscriber, thank you!
I did an online 30 day session with The Workout Witch of healing trauma in the hips- Somatic healing and lost 9lbs. I felt so energized after letting go of old energy. A lot of crying and old energies came up in my 3D- I have continued to do the movements daily and feel so brand new!
Thank you for sharing this info, I can not find any good somatic healer, was that costly? Can be done online?
I really appreciate this channel…especially this episode. Never heard of this therapy.
23:30 to 24:07 - Experience is so relatable. I feel so validated after listening to this.
Very good teaching, what you're doing is a blessing, like a calling to help people, thank you very much.
YES, more of these with you both would be great, just loved this episode 🙏♥️
Very interesting work and thank you Forrest for your very good questions. It is so helpful to know about this aspect of psychology/therapy!
This was a great interview! Elizabeth is amazing.
She was really great, thank you both!
Good questions, and the explanations are really clear and easy to understand
I like your gentle approach too. Just starting to explore more around somatic work, as a holistic therapist of 9 years who offers massage, qigong and yoga nidra. Definitely feeling the pull towards diving in this direction more deeply. This was really helpful and informative.
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much for this segment. It really helped me get some better understanding re somatic psychology. (I recently switched to a therapist and physical therapist who use somatic experiencing.). Thank you.
I am so glad I found you especially Elizabeth 🙏🏻
Thanks Elizabeth and Forrest! Some great info here. I've known for awhile I needed somatic therapies but wasn't sure what pathways to look for rather than specific bodywork. CBT is not the way for me, so this has given me more understanding of how to access this type of therapy from a self led perspective, as there just isn't access to somatic therapists in our country and no funding if you find a rare one. Also so helpful to understand more how I can investigate what specific feelings and parts I've been exhiling ❤ Downloaded Grandmothers Hands now! Thank you.
Thanks so dearly Forest!
Gorgeous. So inspiring. What a blessing you both are. 🙏
I love this conversation, thank you for sharing
Truly beautiful, gracias!
Wonderful, thank-you both for another collaboration of sharing your wisdom and compassion. Both of you engage in some awesome transmutation and alchemy of energy. Greatly appreciated!
She's just so lovely 💕
Excellent episode, I Loved it from beginning to end. Wish I lived in California 💛 Thank you both so much
Thank you so much for the talk! The idea about physical connection with your body gave me a major breakthrough with my experience 😊
Gosh this is SUCH an episode. I bet Elizabeth sees right through her clients. They’re fencing and she’s like, “Uh huh.” 😫
Yeah, regulating that insight is something I think really distinguishes effective therapists.
Clinicians often have a fairly good sense of what's going on, or what might really benefit their client, in the first session or two. And then a big part of the process is getting the client to the point where they're prepped to receive that level of insight. Therapists have to regulate their own desire to "skip ahead" to the end to try to "fix" the problem as quickly as possible, because if you do that the client normally isn't ready and you're just going to activate their defenses.
I can definitely think of some times in my own process when I just wasn't ready to "get" something about myself that ended up being pretty pivotal for me later on.
That said, yeah, she's a very insightful person 😂
@@ForrestHansonhow fascinating!
Thankyou so much !💖
This episode reasonates so so so much with me!
Very interesting and useful, thanks you guys 🙏🏼
Love this!!! Thank you both for all your efforts and for sharing your experience and wisdom with us! 💜
❤ I really enjoy listening to you guys thank you
This was really eye opening
This was so good, on so many levels. I love your podcast, and I want more of this specific dialogue. Could you possibly do a Q&A with Elizabeth? On this topic? Your interview was great because it hit a lot of the questions that I have but I have so many more. Like, how can I tell the difference between disassociation and cognitive bypassing? I think I do both or is one an umbrella over the other? I'm like you in that I stay in the very intelligent part of my brain, and I have so much childhood trauma around not being allowed to feel feelings or Body Sensations, so it's very complex and I need help
Great episode. You make an insightful team.
I was taught to think “brace yourself”. I’m trying to learn to replace that thought with “grace yourself”.
Thankful thankful🦋 🙏
Joyful joyful
Skilful awe🙌
Love & life❤️🧡💛💚💙💜💟
I have dissociation. I need to move extremely slow. So how do we go about this?! What do we start with first? Any deeper and further info on this!?!
Thank you so much.
Thank you, very helpful ❤!!
I would love to see Dick Schwartz at your podcast and you guys have a nice more advanced conversation on IFS. That is missing on UA-cam. I cant think of a better person to do a deeper and more advanced conversation with Dick on this. I would be super grateful. Even if you didnt have Dick, maybe you and Elizabeth and Rick could do it. This was an awesome episode btw. Really loved it. And grateful for your work. More episodes on this topic with Elizabeth would also be wonderful.
Forrest has done an episode with Dick Schwartz. In June 2021. It is on podcast platforms. Perhaps there isn't a video of it. It is a fantastic interview.
@@sj4370 Thank you so much for that! I always listen to it here on youtube and didn't find it on the search, will def find the podcast on a platform and look for it! Thanks for telling me. :)
Thank you
That is tooooo much relaxation for me! In a session I’d just hand her my credit card and go to sleep. 🤣
Love this channel 🩷
The "gold' standard in medicine often indicates the most cost effective routine diagnostic tool, lab, or therapy. It's almost as if insurance were defining it honestly, they'd say -- "Follow the gold standard and we will keep more of the gold (i.e. have higher profits).
Wow, thank you!
8:14 Relaxation meditation
Thank you 🙏🏻
Thank you guys this is wonderful. Just a question: are you talking about Somatic Experiencing or Somatic Psychotherapy in the US is something different? I’m Italian but living in the UK…
Somatic psychotherapy broadly. Somatic experiencing is a particular method inside the bigger umbrella of somatically-informed therapy.
@@ForrestHanson Thank you
Interesting that CBT doesn’t regard the causal relationship between thought and feeling as bidirectional.
I'm not trained in the modality myself so I gotta be a bit careful about commenting on it. My (limited) understanding is that it does hold that feelings influence thoughts and thoughts influence feelings, but 99% of the interventions are trying to "get at" the thoughts. If you just stop the "pathogenic beliefs," the related feelings will go away.
This is true to a degree, but even thinking about things that way at all requires a lot of cognizing - which isn't accessible to a lot of people.
@@ForrestHanson Aaaaaaah. I guess I should go to a professional instead of just reading books then. lol
You got a new subscriber! Thanks 🙏
I most dread the gut pain and nausea, heart ache, and tachycardia.
Thank you so much
Why don’t you become a clinician ? You know EVERYTHING !
In my experience of an acclaimed online course about somatic approach, there had been shared private information (distorted on the top) about me that had to be kept private due to the confidentiality obligation of therapist.
These information had been been shared without my consent, publicly in front of many people and simultaneously recorded and being put in the platform of the The Brook Institute and subsequently sold.
I had been publicly shamed in the live videos by Annie Brook.
Annie Brook shared without my knowledge and without my consent some private information I might have been elaborating on in a private session with her that I paid for.
She suddenly started to claim in the live videos publicly that I have apparently a mentally sick parent and this is why I am "CONFUSED" .
Confused means less intelligent, possibly as well mentally sick. I wondered where Annie Brook had this statements from.
Thus Annie Brook tried to shame me publicly with some distorted information that had the capacity to harm my reputation.
Nobody likes to be shamed and told some lies about him in the public.
These videos were recorded by Annie Brook and she must have been selling them to other people until today, more than one year.
She has the videos available at her platform to anybody to see who has access to this platform.
Despite me asking to put these videos down because of laws of private protection, it is assumed that she did not put them down.
I asked Annie Brook to send a record of data she stores about me (she herself states this legal obligation of her in her website), but I had received no answer.
Annie Brook seems not to need to follow the legal obligations.
Further Annie Brook claimed about me in another video that when I am being bullied, it means that the bully wants to eliminate a weak person.
As the animals naturally attack a weak member of the herd in order to make the herd healthier, so the bully does.
Thus, in seeing this in this whole way, what Annie Brook wanted to claim about me publicly, is that this is proper to eliminate me. Eliminate like the animals do - which means to kill ?
When I asked for repair, Annie Brook started to attacking me that "I am making this up " and that "I am projecting something" and " if I do not share her reality, I have nothing to do in The Brook Institute.
Subsequently Annie Brook had removed my access to the platform I am still paying money for.
I had pointed in an e-mail to Annie Brook some 20 points of misbehavior towards in those paid services. Annie Brook claimed that I am projecting it and it is a complete lie.
Then Annie Brook went and changed her website and used my points, sometimes even literally my words. So her website suddenly showed that her therapists are actually not therapists, but coaches and are not registered nor licensed and are in fact just friends of Annie Brook.
There showed up the information that Annie Brook helps folks with double binds and that she records the videos and that the purchaser has the right to ask her for personal records of data she stores about the person, the so called therapist who were hairdresser became a therapist within two weeks from my complaints.
Her entire webpage had been rewritten.
So, this is strange, when I was lying about the ethical misbehavior towards me, why did she made this effort to change her webpage so swiftly ?
I have the impression that I had been chosen by Annie Brook like a animal to experiment on.
She knew that I search a somatic approach, but she tried to implant some thoughts about me having some mental troubles/esp. apparently wanting to commit suicide/ in my head and she used all her stuff for it to do so.
It is possibly not so often to get somebody so naiv, living in poor country far away from rich US, who has physical troubles and who has heard about somatic therapy, but never tried it before.
It was probably very easy to lure me on the scholarship and force me to have sessions (paid by me) with her so called therapists (aka her friends as said her website later) and make the videos of me where she is showing me to to the others as an animal object, sharing many condescending information about me.
Professional psychotherapeutic ethics does not say anything to Annie Brook, I suppose.
She must know that I will have hard time to access the US legal forces from the place I live, with the money I have at my disposal and with physical disease. Good calculation.
My first and only experience with somatic therapy had been very unsafe.
All for my money I paid to Annie Brook.
Thus as well, significant portion of money had been lured out of me by the fradulent representation of the work of Annie Brook
I'd like to see Elizabeth dance. Flamenco. I think she might benefit from this in many ways.😊
I know this is 10 days ago but I hope someone will see this and can answer. How long is each individual session?
I am a Counselor myself and I don't like limiting my sessions to 60 minutes.
Hey Gladys, no worries I read most of the comments 😅
Somatic therapy is similar to other forms of therapy in that the length of sessions tends to vary from clinician to clinician. Elizabeth currently does 60 minute sessions, which is driven in part by the population she works with. Many of her clients come to her for CPTSD/trauma, and her experience is that people start to "max out" on that kind of work around the hour mark.
I worked with a clinician who did 90 minute sessions, and I mostly really liked that.
Does she work via zoom?
@@ForrestHanson thanks, yeah 90 minutes sounds like my speed. But is good to follow the clients lead.