giving mario access to whatever he needs whenever he needs it proves mario CAN survive the game but is very unlikely, could better balance it by only giving him items he would have had when sa2 released
I mean even things like Cappy would require Mario to have a reason to have Cappy with him aka, they worked together in SMO and Cappy doesn't show up in Wonder for a reason. the Star Spin would require Mario have a Luma with him. And the Nozzle comes from a block as does the Wing Cap.
13:51 I feel like towards the end, it might actually end up WORSE than in the original SA2. Cause at the end of that game, right before Shadow falls to Earth, both him and Sonic have to use Chaos Control in order to put the ARK back into orbit, otherwise it'll kill everyone. So I think it would make more sense that Shadow would have to end up exerting TONS of power in order to do that final Chaos Control, since we know that that's a move that's rare even among Sonic characters, so he ultimately ends up dying cause of over-exertion, and Mario is just forced to watch this happen since this would be the one thing he couldn't really do much of anything about. Now, I know that Mario could probably fly and catch Shadow like how you have it set up here. But since Shadow was SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful in SA2, I feel like it would ultimately play out with Shadow dying, no matter if Mario saves him or not. So, yeah your right, Shadow the Hedgehog wouldn't happen in this altered continuity, but probably not for the reasons you were expecting. Anyways, thats my two cents. I hope you have a great day. God Bless.
I was half expecting one of the Super Star powerups will be utilized in this video. I was thinking during that cinematic moment against the Final Hazard, Mario would use a Star making him invincible. The Super Star can also be transferred to another person, so Super Shadow would be granted extra power without having to overexert his abilities to stop the ark with Chaos Control. Pretty much an alternate take.
I think it would be more fair to have Mario go thru SA2 with the abilities he had at the time, since current Sonic also has many abilities that would allow him to blitz thru this game
And to not just suddenly give him everything he'd ever need when he needs it. He's not just gonna summon a Star out of thin air whenever he's gonna get hit by a laser
My personal headcanon as to why gun mistakes Sonic for Shaodw is that Shadow actually somewhat looks like Super Sonic, so unless there's a somewhat clear shot of him in the footage of him taking the green chaos emerald away, it would be pretty easy to confuse the 2
And Shadow looks like Super Sonic by design, as his in-canon inspiration was the mosaic of the final boss battle of Sonic 3 and Knuckles, in Hidden Palace Zone. Gerald Robotnik did at some point, go to Angel Island and see that thing. Kind of interesting that a prophecy for one character, also was responsible for the creation of his doppelganger, before the birth of the original character the doppelganger is based on.
I actually know about another theory that sort of makes sense. Basically the reason why GUN had mistaken Sonic for Shadow is because they didn’t. They actually knew that Sonic and Shadow were 2 different people but went after Sonic anyway because they wanted to use him as a scapegoat in order to cover up what they did on the arc all those years ago. I honestly wish this was canon because GUN being slightly corrupt makes sense when you look at all of the destruction they caused while trying to catch Sonic. Not to mention the fact that Eggman broke into their base in order to release Shadow, so they have to know that Sonic and Shadow are 2 different people.
@Skibster-w9l I could somewhat see that yea, but don't you think Shadow would still be their top priority considering just how powerful and willing to kill he was? I feel like as much as they'd want to cover up their asses, they're not that corrupt. They are somewhat good people, or at the very least would be another way of covering up their sins
I thought this was a neat thought experiment but I feel like it'd be more fair to use only Mario's feats and gear from back when Sonic Adventure 2 came out. Just cause it feels like you brought a level 90 Mario into a level 10 Sonic area.
@@mynameisntimportant1374He wasn't really complaining tho? He was just making a suggestion. Even tho I agree that Mario was definitely nerfed I feel like you really need a change of pace dude.
Mario can break his fall without FLUDD using Ground Pounds. Doesn't even have to be timed to be low to the ground given that "Rocket Ground Pounding" is a feature in Sunshine used to break certain piece of the environment, which doesn't cause fall damage despite the height.
Explaining the Sonic Shadow confusion. Sonic is not someone who stands around, he is always on the move, thus making it hard to capture footage of him. So when eye witnesses see a super fast hedgehog destroying GUN robots and robbing a bank at night, they think it's Sonic because they have only heard about him and can only see something in the distance that resembles him. Remember this is consumer 1998-2001 tech people are working with. GUN either know nothing about project shadow and/or only select people know, but want to keep the ARK incident quiet, since it was a top secret project that developed dangerous weapons and happened 50 years ago.
@@HyperSonic1999orJTHits actually pretty simple, shadows beta design "Terios" looked a lot more like sonic and taking the lighting and messy footage it was easly mistaken for sonic! Shadow's current design came in much later for when the script was finished and they were to lazy to change it
@@HyperSonic1999orJTH im not saying that to be mean and i actually like more your explanation and wished that it was like that in tje actual game! Its well explained, it fits and its good! I mean its not like just because your explanation wasnt true im going to just yell "WRONG" like an inmature kid right?
@Bluejay_135 That does make sense. However, Shadow was first shown publicly on Sonic Team's website on 30th June 2000 or at E3 2000 behind closed doors. That's a 10-11 month gap for the story to be still in its middle to final stages. They would have changed it if they believed it needed to be changed.
Thought this was gonna be a showcase of a mod that adds 64 Mario and I'm pleasantly surprised to have found a really fun analysis instead! Great video :D 👍
I feel like it's more plausible for Mario to fight Shadow in the first fight using the Tanooki Tail. He would just use the tail to deflect Shadow's homing attack as he is a projectile and knock Shadow into the water off the stage.
@@david_cool427YT I don't see him being nerfed, that's for sure. In fact, this is a port from an actual mario game. Here you have a bonafide mario with all of his moveset and without extra power ups.
This is such a cool video, being a neat mix of Mario’s feats and a "what if" scenario. I really hope to see more of these, as I find them super interesting.
Wait, I'm confused. How fast does this man think Mario can run without the turbo nozzle. In all his games, even with the power star helping, he only moves maybe twice as fast, and Mario doesn't run that fast to begin with. The only way I see him clearing stages in this game is to constantly hold the turbo nozzle down the whole time, and that's not happening with its limited water supply. Not only that, but unlike Sonic, Mario isn't built for speed so he'd need to be careful when moving at high speeds just so he doesn't trip over his own two feet, in a game with wide bottomless pits and loops where speed is important to not die is going to be hard for him.
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Okay, let me give you this one on the way: ua-cam.com/video/q1kt6SmpDMk/v-deo.htmlsi=EQKAOlWJY5nWuEbH It might give you a certain picture of mario actually facing the challenges of sonic's verse.
Well, no, he didn't NEED anything other than the Stopwatch to catch Shadow. (which I disagree with because if he's given his hammer he should've gotten feats from the Mario and Luigi series, where he dodges lasers in Superstar Saga and Partners In Time, and intercepted a meteor in Bowser's Inside Story) Everything else was just for optimization.
@@floatingf8783I say Mario really just needs a speed boosting powerup; like a Super Mushroom to easily catch up with Shadow (other than Mario Kart, the Mushrooms shown to grant a burst in speed in some Party games), or use a Super Star for the easy OHKO touch from the invincibility on top of moving faster.
One thing you missed was that it took the combined power of Super Sonic and Super Shadow using Chaos Control to put the Ark back into a safe orbit after the defeat of Finalhazard, meaning while the final boss of the game might be defeated, the Earth is still doomed.
Mario doesn't have the baby luma, F.L.U.D.D. or Cappy with him normally. They were powerups he got in their games. It's how things work for him, he gets the power ups he needs from the story or the world. If he was in SA2 honestly I'd expect there to be Hedgehog Flowers around giving him Sonic's powers.
So are all of Marios games cannon? Cuz I am pretty sure the stopwatch is from the RPGs. Also, Chaos Control also stops time, so theres literally no point in using that power up since they cancel each other out in a sense.😊
So what you're saying is, Mario could survive Sonic Adventure 2 if he had absolutely every powerup and upgrade he's ever had, all at the same time, and in infinite supply, ignoring the game's own conventions and story so he doesn't even have to be a part of it. I like the premise, but the execution isn't particularly imaginative. I understand having F.L.U.D.D, though. That one at least makes sense, even period-correct, but where is he asspulling all of these wing caps? Why are we assuming Mario is just as strong without the feather cape (he isn't)? Tossing Bowser, and tossing a literal castle are not in the same league of power. At the end of the day, Your Mario isn't playing nice with the restrictions the game puts on the player, so are you making your argument from a gameplay perspective, or lore? If you wanted to settle this properly, put libsm64 into Sonic Adventure 2, like it was done to Sonic Generations. He's even got infinite wing cap in that.
More like if he was nerfed af without counting every power he gained in the 2D and 3D games or his arsenal from the spin offs and limiting his lore feats
@@mynameisntimportant1374 ok bud. Not what happened, but you do you. This is a purely arbitrary premise based in nothing, but go ahead and ignore that because I didn't shower a normal Italian man with praise.
Yeah, pretty much. Fair point. Tho putting the character into the game would only answer the question in a purely mechanical way, there's some merit in trying to think outside the box. Tho this video takes it a bit too far completely mixing up mechanics and narrative and ignoring the former whenever it's convenient. If this was purely a matter of game mechanics well SM64 Mario could just backwards long jump his way into infinite speed and glitch into any part of the map he wanted. I do think this should stick to stuff he could actually have a chance of having in the game even if hypothetically. Cappy and Baby Luma are not tools they are allies who accompanied him on the journey of those games, there's no reason he'd still have them. However if he was in SA2 there's a good chance he'd somehow find some sort of unique new power up from that game as he usually does. Maybe something related to the animals he can free in that game or the chaos drives. But this is now pure wild fanfiction speculation territory. The craziest thing I can come up with, which I actually find somewhat fitting for his games, would be some sort of Hedgehog mushroom or flower that basically gives him the powers of Sonic whenever he absolutely needs it.
He would die red star only last 5 seconds he wouldnt be able to smash the glass bc it happens to fast and he doesnt have access to stars whenever he wants
The red stars last 20 seconds learn to count and sonic had 15 seconds to proceed what happened when he got captured and the whole tails revealing the chaos emerald was fake
3:20 there’s someone who already mentioned this, but if you don’t wanna watch the short, I’ll explain it. It’s not that shadow sonic but it’s dead. People thought shadow was sonic think about it. The only male hedgehog they knew at the time was sonic
"Your speed is only temporary. Mine builds for eternity." Obvious jokes aside, if anyone's thinking Mario just carrying all these powerups at the same time a little ridiculous, it's not as farfetched as you'd think as NSBMWii shows that he's able to carry up 99 of each powerup. That's not even mentioning the RPG's where also has an inventory. Fludd he'd have have to be a lot more strategic with than Sonic's inherent speed, and even then I don't think he reaches quite the same mobility, but for the ingame obstacles, I think it would suffice (and hey, maybe E.Gadd upgraded it to have all its nozzles.) The only real stretch is Mario's spin ability was granted to him by the baby Luma, even in the Galaxy games, you can't spin without him, but seeing as how they're both stars, maybe you could make the arguement that the Red Star gives him that ability for the Final Hazard anyway. So yes, Mario beating SA2 is *technially* plausible, even if we did have to hodgepodge all of his abilities to do this.
Damn, how did I miss all of these? I should turn on all notifications from this channel. Yeah, I think Mario could survive. He's pretty fast too. I wonder if Sonic could survive? He might have issues with water levels. Yeah, I think Mario has abilities that can counter the Chaos Emeralds. He was able to beat Sonic at full power. Wait he has Cappy and Fludd? But those two were never together. 6:06 President: I have security, don't I? Lol Resident Evil Reptar. Why did Shadow fall toward Earth anyway?
I mean, the events of ShadowTH 05 are still gonna happen. The Black Arms will be pulling up lmao. But he'll just not have a very stupid amnesia plotline. That's just me being a nerd tho. Great video!
Ikr we legit can't go with ONE video that revolves around Mario and Sonic without some whiny Sonic downplayers just calling Mario weak even though they probably don't know a LICK about Mario or his legacy.
At that point you can just say "SONIC USES SPEED SHOES AND INVINCIBILITY TO GET TRHOUGH THIS LEVEL" BECAUSE YOU MADE MARIO HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING FOR SOME REASON BUT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME FOR SONIC Maybe a redo of this challenge would make it more fair with the power ups being in item boxes and Mario being able to use Cappy or Fludd, but can't use both in the same level Because Sonic doesn't have infinite invincibilities or all 7 Chaos Emeralds, why should Mario?
The fact that Mario would require dozens of items in your theories just proves that the Sonicverse is way out of Mario's league. I'd give him the truck chase and MAYBE the rocket, but he'd get destroyed by Shadow
Not exactly, for the truck, it could catch him, but even if it did, it's more like an inconvenience than a threat. For Shadow, I feel like Power-Ups would be slightly more necessary for the second fight
Me looking back at the Mario 64 port in generations: It doesn't look too good for Mario. There we have a full display on mario trying an act of city escape, while being turn to road kill like dozens of times. It pretty much answers question of mario's speed and durability as well.
@9:14 Mario can also use Cappy to possess one of the Beetle GUN robots and just fly through this part of the level. Pretty much any time a Beetle robot shows up, Mario can just use it to fly over that part of the level. It's kinda busted.
I mean, the whole thing about everyone getting Sonic and Shadow confused in the game is because Shadow was originally supposed to be called Terios with the original design literally being a 1-to-1 model of Sonic with the only difference being the gloves, shoes, and quill color. I don’t quite remember why they changed this, but the information is online. As for why they still have everyone confused about Shadow being Sonic, my guess is that the writers didn’t want to change half the plot of the game just because of the redesign of the new antagonist.
So i scrolled down some sections and found miraculously this video. The premise seems irresistable enough to give it a watch. A platform character switching to a more momentum based setting, trying to survive using his given abilities and interactions with friends in place of the actual main character. It does show how Mario could survive, the world of sonic adventure 2 under the right conditions. So consider this plothole filled. And with that like a hundred new ones springing up. - Is Mario really fast enough to match Sonic's speed in anyway? (Mostly to outrun truck- kun?) - Do Sonic's friends trust him immediately? - Is Mario in this case overly reliant on his power ups and gadgets to overcome obstacles? - How does Mario have unlimited access to those power ups and gadgets contrary to his previous gameplays, when he is randomly picking them up? Some of them even being unattainable? - How does without those gadgets and all by himself? (Of course, he's free to use Sonic's power ups. If he can find them that is.) For plot convenience, mario is allowed to turn super via chaos emeralds. To the saving shadow part: It's quite the noble idea to save shadow from his imminent demise, but using a power star to prolong shadow's super form might eventually don't work. Since Super forms doesn't seem to interact with foreign power sources besides chaos energy. Even a Mario cannot save everyone by himself.
He could carry all the regular power ups with him but it depends on the games. In some games he can carry several, in others he can't. But stuff tied to the plot of past games like Cappy or the baby luma, not likely. He leaves those behind and only had them for one game. Beating the truck wouldn't be that hard if he uses physics and times his jumps well, he wouldn't be running more like constantly jumping and diving. He's a very reliable and charismatic guy people tend to trust him easily no problem there. He'd end up having to rely on tools and powerups a lot for sure tho, simply because those challenges weren't built for him.
@@----x----- Funnily enough, there's a sonic generations mod featuring mario as playable character: ua-cam.com/video/q1kt6SmpDMk/v-deo.htmlsi=EQKAOlWJY5nWuEbH This might not be the modern mario as you know him, but this is the closest what we get of mario going through Sonic levels.
That GUN confuses Shadow with Sonic has its origin in the development of the game. Earlier, Shadow was called Terios and had a design much closer to Sonic that could explain confusion a lot better. Later in development, Terios was replaced with the Shadow we know today, but the story remained to be based on his old design.
At the time of Sonic Adventure 2's release Mario has had 8 mainline games: 1. Super Mario Bros (1985) 2. Super Mario Bros The Lost Levels 3. Super Mario Bros 2 4. Super Mario Bros 3 5. Super Mario Land 6. Super Mario World 7. Super Mario Land 2 6 Golden Coins 8. Super Mario 64
Honestly, I feel the answer would be much easier to figure out if someone could mod Mario with his 64 moveset into SA2 and just see if you can beat the game like that.
Mario has also lifted & kicked away a castle In super Mario world. I’m sure a truck wouldn’t be any trouble for him Also I don’t get how people confused sonic & shadow for each other either. I hope they don’t do that in the movie
1:37 Mario has developed an inmunity to fall damage over time, being affected normally by it in 64 (unless he breaks his fall doing something), is inmune to fall damage so long as he lands sliding on his chest or crashing down on his butt in Sunshine, and being fully inmune in Galaxy and onwards, only getting stunned a second from receiving the full impact on his feet 2:49 Mario being close to running out of water unveilsthe fact that he can water a surface and use it to slide forwards at speeds closer to those of Sonic (not agility tho, he can make slight turns but to make an U-turn in small spaces, he has to either stop entirely or slow down a lot to keep the water under his chest.) 4:40 alternatively, he could use the cape or tanooki suit to knock Shadow out of his homing attack 9:48 picture Mario & Luigi gameplay without Luigi. easy. 10:15 Super Stars aren't something you can bring anywhere easily, those are found, and any skills or powers Paper has shown are exclusive to him, since Mario has met Paper Mario, proving they are separate entities 10:58 the only way I see Mario reaching Shadow's speed and maneuverability is with Mario Bros. Z logic. the stopwatch hasn't made an appearance outside of Sub-con (yet) which is a literal dream Mario once had. 12:58 supposing Mario goes Super (either the normal way or the Sonic Heroes way), the Spin Attack is an ability the Lumas give him, not an ability he learned. that said, he could use FLUDD in this battle, he could use the Turbo nozzle in short bursts to dodge and weave through the barrier of balls 13:43 okokok... number one, 6th timestamp's explanation on the stopwatch number two, even if Mario saved Shadow fromhaving amnesia during Heroes and Shadow 05', the Black Arms would still invade Earth.
Before starting, I can see Mario functioning in 2D Sonic games. In the Mario&Luigi Series and Super Mario Odyssey, Mario can roll into a ball, though he can't rev up like the spin dash. Mario's twirl jump from games like World and Sunshine are comparable to Blaze and Espio's' Axel Jump, and everyone knows Mario can wall jump and ground pound. 3D Sonic, on the other hand? I don't think Mario has an equivalent to the Homing Attack. There's those hat moves in Odyssey, but those are enabled by Cappy, not Mario himself.
I feel like resorting to pulling out power ups kind of cheats. Like, things like Fludd or Cappy, fair enough, they're permanent items that give movesets. But random stuff like stopping time with a random item I'm not even sure which game it's from... I just feel like it makes it TOO easy? Like, by that logic, Sonic can just pull out invincibility or the Chaos Emeralds, or any other random power up that is not part of his base moveset or a permanent upgrade.
@@mynameisntimportant1374 The opinion was that pulling out power ups was kind of cheating. Just because I can't identify where every single powerup is from in a series does not invalidate that opinion, or my right to hold it.
@mynameisntimportant1374 Unless he has it the entire game, it's still a power up, and therefore, I still personally feel like it's cheating unless Mario can just pull one out whenever he wants.
Mario doesn’t even make it pass city escape realistically. Shadow would whoop his ass. And the biolizard cooks Mario. Without a teammate shadow would die. And Mario would die as well.
Everyone keeps mixing up shadow and sonic even tho they look different is because the story of the game was written before they finished his design, writers had a vague idea that shadow would look like sonic. And In shadows concept art especially Terios, he looks just like sonic but like a villain.
I'm on mobile so when I saw your pfp for the first time I thought it was a heavily edited version of that green m&m with Steve Harvey's head doing the "had to do it to em" pose xd
Oh definitely. Sure, Mario would be slower than Sonic but he can definitely keep up. Edit: Aye! Shadow doesn’t die. Though, boooo. No character arc for Shadow or Shadow the Hedgehog game.
Mario's stopwatch would not give him an edge over Shadow in the eclipse-cannon fight as Chaos Control removes Shadow from time, thus negating the stopwatch's effect. Using Cappy on the Egg Golem was a nice touch though :p
firstly, mario just blatantly wouldn’t have access to a LOT of these things considering he’s not in his own world, nor under the specific circumstances to use his most powerful abilities. even if we assume he has access to powerups in saving like in mario world, he wouldn’t be able to have ALL of these feasibly, since the world doesn’t give them to him, and neither fludd nor cappy are around to give him their innate abilities. second, even if we’re assuming that he can do all that and get this far, the time stop ability wouldn’t work. chaos control does the exact same thing, and it’s shown that it can nullify the effects of other time stops with metal overlord’s fight, thusly, shadow would STILL beat mario. i love mario as much as the next person but i feel like it needs to be accepted that as powerful as he is, he doesn’t stand a chance against the comparatively insane universe sonic lives in. for all intents and purposes, mario is just a normal guy with above average strength and jump height without his power-ups. humans are powerless against hedgehogs who can go multiple times the speed of sound and curl up into balls that essentially work like supersized bullets. that aside, this video was a really interesting listen. as a sonic fan i’m innately biased so if i missed anything, someone tell me.
Can Shadow "survive" Yoshi's Island? Dealing with enemies is one thing, but can he save the babies while stopping a magic army from taking over time and space?
I agree with your explanations for most of this except for one particular thing, I feel like you're hard capping with the Shadow fights. I can maybe understand your reasoning for the way the Prison Island fight could go with Shadow underestimating Mario and not giving it his all but on the second fight there's just no way that Shadow loses. Not only is he MUCH faster than Mario but he's also not a pushover. Still really durable and strong too but the most important thing you forgot to take into account specifically is that Shadow can both slow down AND stop time with Chaos Control so Mario's stopwatch wouldnt do him much good. Combine that with the fact that the road under their feet is literally falling apart and that Mario could lose his Cape during the fight and theres a VERY high chance that's where Mario loses although funnily enough I think that the story would continue as normal anyways because canonically Sonic loses too (as seen in Shadow the Hedgehog since the Eclipse Cannon is still functional). Oh and lastly on a side note just wanted to say that it's kinda weird to put modern day Mario into an old Sonic game. By that logic we should also use modern versions of the Sonic cast and in that case I think Mario wouldnt even make it out of Prison Island
You're the only one who's capping. Shadow would be toast the moment Mario uses a Starman or Mega Mushroom, he'd be blindsided by the invincibility. The Gold Flower one-tapped Bowser's first phase in New Super Mario Bros 2, so THAT could take Shadow out in one hit as well. Mario has the durability to tank Shadow's attacks in Chaos Control, while Shadow would crumple like paper after being hit in the Stopwatch. (Castle punt aside, Mario casually hammered Bowser across a 12 mile horizon) Mario's dealt with collapsing terrain before on multiple occasions and has a flight Power-Up that don't need a running start like the Red Star or Wing Cap, and could create terrain with the Cloud Flower. (Also, Mario’s kit was limited, he has stuff from the RPGs to stun Shadow, put him to sleep, or just immediately damage him from a distance) It's not weird putting Mario into an older Sonic game. It'd be disingenuous to limit Mario to what he had at the time or buff the Sonic characters who canonically get stronger over time to their modern stats just because this is earlier in Sonic's history, and even limiting Mario wouldn't change the outcome as he'd still have everything he needs (his stats came from Super Mario World, just switch the Red Star for another use of the Wing Cap and have Mario use a Tanooki Leaf or the Cape Feather to slow his descent into City Escape) Also, you must be new here, this guy put Luigi in Resident Evil 1 and gave him everything from all three Luigi’s Mansion games, limiting the challenger to what they had at the time of the game's release isn't NathinOut's style. It's a hard pill for the Versus Community to swallow, but Mario has fought Stellar, Universal, above battles in his base form alone (Bowser surviving a Black Hole at the end of Galaxy 2 and one of the Mario Parties, the Galaxy 1 universe reset just gave him a headache, and Mario cracked his shell at the end credits fight of Bowser's Inside Story. And in Paper Jam, Mario fought on par with the Paper cast who survived Sammer Kingdom's universe being consumed by the Void, dreams in Dream Team are universes as shown by the presence of actual outer space and stars when Giant Dreamy Luigi jumps into space to use Finishing Bros and Antasma gained his power by eating them, Dreamy Bowser had the power of the Dream Stone which had uncountable dreams), has dodged and intercepted massively hypersonic meteors (Bowser in both Galaxy games), dodged lightspeed laser beams (Superstar Saga, Partners in Time, and one enemy in Galaxy 1), and has MFTL scaling like scaling from fighting False Millennium Star who traveled across part of a galaxy in 3 seconds in Mario Party 3 and dodging the same meteors Bowser used to shoot down Lubba’s ship that could travel through dozens of galaxies in Galaxy 2. (And Mario has his own wonky Immesurable crap) Even in Modern Sonic, Mario would rip any base form character in half with his bare hands and would still beat the shit out of Time Eater, though higher tiers like Egg Wizard and The End are more up in the air cuz of Maginaryworld scaling and downscaling Mario from the Zeekeeper who debatably scales to the Dream Depot (Mario’s Maginaryworld but way bigger as it has every dream yet to be dreampt)
@@floatingf8783 go check out VsBattle Sonic profiles, my man, Sonic and Shadow were unaffected by concepts such as the White Void which is nothingness. He didn't need power ups or shit like that. Sonic has been fighting such characters with no powerups, and even in Frontiers. Mario, for example, is not winning against characters like Infinite, and ESPECIALLY not the Titans, he's also not winning against characters like Erazor Djinn, Dark Gaia, SOLARIS OR TIME EATER. You guys like using Dreamy Bowser. Sonic has fought at least four of him and surpassed them.
@@floatingf8783 shadow still no cells, a single chaos emerald is universal in power and shadow is equal to the power of a chaos emerald when he removes his inhibiter rings.
@@BoomBoxBlazthe glazing is crazy Sonic is not touching dreamy bowser and Mario already did everything sonic for years before he did them but infinitely better
I feel mario would have a super form via chaos emeralds as much as i love sonic over mario but i feel he has a more pure heart than sonic so he def should be able to use them
I'd say Mario's story ends on the space colony ark, Eggman sees Mario pull out a hammer and instantly ejects him into space, the pod explodes before he gets a chance to use his hammer or even the red star. Game Over.
The Mario downplay is crazy lol. Did you not forget the context within that part of the story? Mario could easily escape while Eggman isn't looking and monologuing to Sonic's friends. Even IF Mario got launched out into space, Mario would have definitely survive this. This dude can casually tank explosions to the face and come out fine.
y'know im gonna do the same thing i did to the other 8 year old fanboy, copy paste my argument dude like, your giving mario an infinite supply of everything he has ever used vs sonic that only had his powers. Its like putting in a fight all the looney tunes vs a regular old man. We gotta set some ground rules so its fair! 1st mario participates in the story (shadow uses a Wario suit during the game) 2nd no power ups or allies. If we give mario power ups to fly and be invincible or an ally that can posses anything, that would be so easy and unfair 3rd no cartoony-looney tuney plot armor and exagerated feats, its been stated so many times that sonic can run faster than the speed of sound, but it has never been stated that mario can LIFT A BILLION TONS just because of an in game (non canon) cutscene that was when the lore was bad written. Base Mario is cooked because if he can get hurt by just touching a goomba those lasers, explosions, chases, fights and other scenarios wont go very good for him
@@Bluejay_135 Fax dude! It's like saying "can Sonic survive super Mario Galaxy? Well, Sonic simply turns into Hyper Sonic and flies through all the galaxies and one-shots Bowser" you are giving the character in question all of his most broken abilities that he wouldn't actually have access to. (Red stars don't exist in the Sonic universe)
Assuming Mario was limited to things at the time of Sonic Adventure 2's release, the space sections would probably be where Mario gets stumped. With the luma and a red star, with the item pocket mechanic in general, yeah sure. Mario can just skip "city escape" with a mega mushroom, if we're going that deep into the game releases.
3:18 This could be because Shadow went through multiple designs that they couldn’t stick with the final until late into development, after the story was done. One of the more known early Shadow designs is named Terios which just looked like Sonic in an edgy phase which explains the mixup a bit more
I want to see the takes for the other stages of Mario just punts the truck away. Watch the collision of the ark be stopped by Mario parrying it back to orbit.
Nice, but another idea us if mario can only have one power up at the start and one in his inventory, if he loses those, they gone (cappy doesn’t count)
Saying that shadow is only hypersonic is a really severe downplay. In "Sonic advance 3," after gemerl uses the chaos emralds to transform into ultimate gemerl, he flees into outer space to fight super sonic in the nonagression zone. All of them Start on earth and fly past many stars, most notably, eggman is capable of keeping up in his eggmobile, with base sonic being able to keep up with the same eggman on multiple occasion. This would result in shadow having massively faster than light reaction time even in his base form, which means he blows this "hypersonic" scaling out of the water. You could argue that shadow is just so much faster than Mario that he could just use one of his abilities to incapacitate him.
4:55 i agree that Mario could stand his ground but wouldn't grabbing Shadow or even Sonic while spinning be the equivalent of grabbing a spinning buzzsaw?
Only if he lets Shadow keep spinning. If Mario grabs him BY THE QUILL that oughta stop him. Though just hammering Shadow is probably the better option.
@@david_cool427YT That's obvious. But I mean, it's not the explosive factor, it's the cutting factor. This still Shadow we're talking about. The guy that can slice through countless machines just as good as Sonic can. Mario is durable but if he grabs Shadow mid homing attack, his hands are gone. What I'm basically saying is that something that's waterproof can still be lit on fire. Even in the games Mario has to find a way around fighting enemies with spikes wether it be finding a weak point or using a hammer. I'm not saying Mario would lose, I'm saying that he can't just grab Shadow.
@@floatingf8783 That's assuming Mario is fast enough, and observant enough to grab that single quill that's moving at impossible speeds, slicing Mario regardless. If a single grain of sand hit the earth at 1% the speed of light, the earth would quite literally obliterate into nothing, so just imagine what would happen to Mario touching Shadow as he's moving at immeasurable speeds.
Actually Mario would immediately lose on City Escape for the same reason most Sonic characters can't even pass it. He doesn't have a slide or roll to go under the gate for the truck.
It's never needed, but in Super Mario 64, Mario can crawl on the ground. He can easily get past the gate. Dealing with the truck however is another matter entirely.
"Could Mario Survive Sonic Adventure 2?" Well based on the video not without prep time, if he didn't have a bunch of items and powers from the get go then I don't see Mario making it to the end as easily if at all. This honestly felt more like New Game + more than anything.
I think of the power ups like sonics upgrades, the light speed dash for example was an upgrade that sonic collected, without it he couldnt beat crazy gadget, so the red star would be more or less an upgrade
I feel like all the main Sonic levels are easily trivialize by simply flying to the goal, Mario really needs just 1 powerup for that. Out of all the bosses, Shadow 2nd Boss Fight will be the toughest battle for Mario, since he needs to push his very limits to keep up, and he may need a powerup for that.
I mean this is sonic's world. Where is Mario finding all these stars and capes. This just seems like taking all the overpowered aspects of the character from different games with different contexts and putting it in to give him a chance of survival. Though honestly thats a bit nit picky. Regardless its an interesting exercise to see how mario at his best can rise up to sonic and gang.
I think at the start, Mario would either not be arrested for not being confused for Shadow like Sonic is, or would be arrested for being friends with Sonic and since, unlike Sonic, he's not a rebel, he would not attempt to escape the flight, as we see in Super Mario Sunshine he doesn't try to escape at all when he's falsely acused and arrested, Bowser Jr. even comments on that fact saying it was a shame they didn't locked him up, if they did, he probably wouldn't have tried to escape So he would be directly sent into Prison Island, if when in there, he changed his mind and chose to escape, he would skip City Escape entierly and go through the rest of the game, if he didn't and continued locked there, he probably would've exploded when Shadow placed the timed bomb on the island, and if he was proven to be innocent and had no way to have connection with Sonic at that moment, he would also escape alive
i see no reason that Black doom wouldn't still attack, but Shadow wouldn't have the same issues with his memory (also remember sonic heroes happens first, so Omega is never put in the chamber to watch shadow, so Omega probably stays on Eggman's side, by swapping mario and sonic and turning SA2 into MA2 (Mario Adventure 2) you've completely changed the trajectory of the sonic universe
"I must avenge Mario!" - Shadow after seeing Mario's capsule explode in space.
I get the reference
Best comment
Ha I get it
GREAT VIDEO ❤
JEHTT REFERENCE🗣️🔥🗣️🔥
This format of power scaling is way more interesting then 1v1s
I'd says it's more of an obsticle course than power scaling but agreed.
im just imagining mario with a massive backpack having to carry all the different items and powerups
Like Captain Toad?
He probably hide it in some hammer space like the rings or amy hammer.
Them overalls have deep pockets
He can carry a ton of stuff in the Mario and Luigi series
This is way more interesting than normal powerscaling tbh
Fax I'm ACTUALLY invested into this ngl.
giving mario access to whatever he needs whenever he needs it proves mario CAN survive the game but is very unlikely, could better balance it by only giving him items he would have had when sa2 released
Ignoring how lore wise Mario got heavily nerfed
I mean even things like Cappy would require Mario to have a reason to have Cappy with him aka, they worked together in SMO and Cappy doesn't show up in Wonder for a reason. the Star Spin would require Mario have a Luma with him. And the Nozzle comes from a block as does the Wing Cap.
NO
WRONG
@@Eris1987 they are his arsenal and Mario can spin and posses things without luma and cappy
"Mario, I think the REAL Ultimate Liform might be... You!"
Mario: (gibberish Italian noise)
Let's a go!!!
13:51 I feel like towards the end, it might actually end up WORSE than in the original SA2. Cause at the end of that game, right before Shadow falls to Earth, both him and Sonic have to use Chaos Control in order to put the ARK back into orbit, otherwise it'll kill everyone. So I think it would make more sense that Shadow would have to end up exerting TONS of power in order to do that final Chaos Control, since we know that that's a move that's rare even among Sonic characters, so he ultimately ends up dying cause of over-exertion, and Mario is just forced to watch this happen since this would be the one thing he couldn't really do much of anything about.
Now, I know that Mario could probably fly and catch Shadow like how you have it set up here. But since Shadow was SIGNIFICANTLY less powerful in SA2, I feel like it would ultimately play out with Shadow dying, no matter if Mario saves him or not. So, yeah your right, Shadow the Hedgehog wouldn't happen in this altered continuity, but probably not for the reasons you were expecting.
Anyways, thats my two cents. I hope you have a great day. God Bless.
I was half expecting one of the Super Star powerups will be utilized in this video. I was thinking during that cinematic moment against the Final Hazard, Mario would use a Star making him invincible. The Super Star can also be transferred to another person, so Super Shadow would be granted extra power without having to overexert his abilities to stop the ark with Chaos Control.
Pretty much an alternate take.
@@YokaiMario Ooooooh, that's good. I didn't think of that.
No, Shadow survives cause Mario gives him a 1-up
If only Donkey Kong was there to punch the ark back in orbit.
@@NintendoSegaGuysnow I need DK on the journey
You also could've just had Mario backwards long jump from City Escape straight to the Ark XD Great video!
I think it would be more fair to have Mario go thru SA2 with the abilities he had at the time, since current Sonic also has many abilities that would allow him to blitz thru this game
NO
And to not just suddenly give him everything he'd ever need when he needs it. He's not just gonna summon a Star out of thin air whenever he's gonna get hit by a laser
Great video. Now put Wario in Shadow's game.
Haha lol
I would actually love to do something with Wario in the future.
Wario: *fires the Eclipse Cannon at the black comet* Have a rotten day!
That would be perfection
But can Shadow survive in a Wario game…..
“Can Shadow handle running Warioware?!”
Simple: yes, Mario has plot armor
*Mario is him*
Okay, but Bowser in Eggman's stages.
My personal headcanon as to why gun mistakes Sonic for Shaodw is that Shadow actually somewhat looks like Super Sonic, so unless there's a somewhat clear shot of him in the footage of him taking the green chaos emerald away, it would be pretty easy to confuse the 2
And Shadow looks like Super Sonic by design, as his in-canon inspiration was the mosaic of the final boss battle of Sonic 3 and Knuckles, in Hidden Palace Zone. Gerald Robotnik did at some point, go to Angel Island and see that thing. Kind of interesting that a prophecy for one character, also was responsible for the creation of his doppelganger, before the birth of the original character the doppelganger is based on.
@@LobotomyTC Yep
I actually know about another theory that sort of makes sense. Basically the reason why GUN had mistaken Sonic for Shadow is because they didn’t. They actually knew that Sonic and Shadow were 2 different people but went after Sonic anyway because they wanted to use him as a scapegoat in order to cover up what they did on the arc all those years ago. I honestly wish this was canon because GUN being slightly corrupt makes sense when you look at all of the destruction they caused while trying to catch Sonic. Not to mention the fact that Eggman broke into their base in order to release Shadow, so they have to know that Sonic and Shadow are 2 different people.
@Skibster-w9l I could somewhat see that yea, but don't you think Shadow would still be their top priority considering just how powerful and willing to kill he was? I feel like as much as they'd want to cover up their asses, they're not that corrupt. They are somewhat good people, or at the very least would be another way of covering up their sins
There was clear footage though
FİNALLY, someone that doesn't underestimate Mario's power compared to Sonic...
I thought this was a neat thought experiment but I feel like it'd be more fair to use only Mario's feats and gear from back when Sonic Adventure 2 came out. Just cause it feels like you brought a level 90 Mario into a level 10 Sonic area.
Mario was nerfed af in this stop complaining
@@mynameisntimportant1374 oh I get it, you're going to each and every comment to defend Mario. Nice autism.
@@mynameisntimportant1374He wasn't really complaining tho? He was just making a suggestion. Even tho I agree that Mario was definitely nerfed I feel like you really need a change of pace dude.
@@david_cool427YT currently beefing leave me alone thanks
@@mynameisntimportant1374Fair enough...
6:36 fun fact: the ghost enemies is sa2 are also called boos
SA2 came out before Luigi’s mansion so technically Nintendo copied sega
@@TimDespairBear11Boos existed prior to Luigi's mansion
@@TimDespairBear11bro, boos existed WAY before Luigi’s mansion
@@angelvi9586 sorry I was thinking of king boo
Mario can break his fall without FLUDD using Ground Pounds. Doesn't even have to be timed to be low to the ground given that "Rocket Ground Pounding" is a feature in Sunshine used to break certain piece of the environment, which doesn't cause fall damage despite the height.
Imagine walking on the sidewalk and you look up to see Mario Ground-Pound canceling in the air to slow his decent
Explaining the Sonic Shadow confusion. Sonic is not someone who stands around, he is always on the move, thus making it hard to capture footage of him. So when eye witnesses see a super fast hedgehog destroying GUN robots and robbing a bank at night, they think it's Sonic because they have only heard about him and can only see something in the distance that resembles him. Remember this is consumer 1998-2001 tech people are working with. GUN either know nothing about project shadow and/or only select people know, but want to keep the ARK incident quiet, since it was a top secret project that developed dangerous weapons and happened 50 years ago.
WRONG
@@firestriker3580 Alright then, how do you explain the confusion?
@@HyperSonic1999orJTHits actually pretty simple, shadows beta design "Terios" looked a lot more like sonic and taking the lighting and messy footage it was easly mistaken for sonic! Shadow's current design came in much later for when the script was finished and they were to lazy to change it
@@HyperSonic1999orJTH im not saying that to be mean and i actually like more your explanation and wished that it was like that in tje actual game! Its well explained, it fits and its good! I mean its not like just because your explanation wasnt true im going to just yell "WRONG" like an inmature kid right?
@Bluejay_135 That does make sense. However, Shadow was first shown publicly on Sonic Team's website on 30th June 2000 or at E3 2000 behind closed doors. That's a 10-11 month gap for the story to be still in its middle to final stages. They would have changed it if they believed it needed to be changed.
“Mario: I will-a Make You Suffer!! You ruthless heartless meany! Agh!!! (Super Saiyan Mario appears)”
Thought this was gonna be a showcase of a mod that adds 64 Mario and I'm pleasantly surprised to have found a really fun analysis instead!
Great video :D 👍
I feel like it's more plausible for Mario to fight Shadow in the first fight using the Tanooki Tail. He would just use the tail to deflect Shadow's homing attack as he is a projectile and knock Shadow into the water off the stage.
He could also use the cape feather for that, maybe even the metal cap
@@shuacraft9193Metal Mario fucking grabs Shadow and in a robotic voice he says "Do look like I-a need your power?"
@@floatingf8783 I understood that reference
Shadow would blitz Mario, the plumber would be 🍳
@@deadstrider Nah Mario is way too tanky.
If you've Played the Black Hole Boogie Minigame, Mario's actually pretty fast without Macguffins
Yeah, about mario being fast without macguffins: //ua-cam.com/video/q1kt6SmpDMk/v-deo.htmlsi=PdKwzRbSpujS--0o
Fax
@@david_cool427YTMeanwhile mario in sonic generations: struggles in sky sanctury zone and against truck- kun.
@@Skankhunt1412 Mario was actually nerfed in this video but ok
@@david_cool427YT I don't see him being nerfed, that's for sure. In fact, this is a port from an actual mario game. Here you have a bonafide mario with all of his moveset and without extra power ups.
Mario has so much flying power ups that he could easily replace flud with racoon or the cape in some sections, he is broken af
This is such a cool video, being a neat mix of Mario’s feats and a "what if" scenario. I really hope to see more of these, as I find them super interesting.
Wait, I'm confused. How fast does this man think Mario can run without the turbo nozzle. In all his games, even with the power star helping, he only moves maybe twice as fast, and Mario doesn't run that fast to begin with. The only way I see him clearing stages in this game is to constantly hold the turbo nozzle down the whole time, and that's not happening with its limited water supply. Not only that, but unlike Sonic, Mario isn't built for speed so he'd need to be careful when moving at high speeds just so he doesn't trip over his own two feet, in a game with wide bottomless pits and loops where speed is important to not die is going to be hard for him.
The worst travel speed feat for Mario is traveling through time with his own speed … take as much time as you want to process that
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Christ how many chromosomes do you have. Quit making shit up
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Okay, let me give you this one on the way: ua-cam.com/video/q1kt6SmpDMk/v-deo.htmlsi=EQKAOlWJY5nWuEbH
It might give you a certain picture of mario actually facing the challenges of sonic's verse.
@@Skankhunt1412 bruh hes cooked😅😵
I love how mario needs so much power ups to just beat sa2
(why do people keep commenting stop it)
Well, no, he didn't NEED anything other than the Stopwatch to catch Shadow. (which I disagree with because if he's given his hammer he should've gotten feats from the Mario and Luigi series, where he dodges lasers in Superstar Saga and Partners In Time, and intercepted a meteor in Bowser's Inside Story) Everything else was just for optimization.
@@floatingf8783I say Mario really just needs a speed boosting powerup; like a Super Mushroom to easily catch up with Shadow (other than Mario Kart, the Mushrooms shown to grant a burst in speed in some Party games), or use a Super Star for the easy OHKO touch from the invincibility on top of moving faster.
@@YokaiMariooh shit, yeah, Shadow's unfamiliar with the Starman so he wouldn't know that touching Mario like that would fuck him up.
They’re basically apart of his arsenal.
Because Mario would lose to the GUN truck alone. And the first battle against Shadow would be a slaughter. With the items too, probably
One thing you missed was that it took the combined power of Super Sonic and Super Shadow using Chaos Control to put the Ark back into a safe orbit after the defeat of Finalhazard, meaning while the final boss of the game might be defeated, the Earth is still doomed.
Ok, hear me out…
Can 9-Volt survive FNAF: Security Breach?
I NEED to see this become an actual video.
@@kingvideogames You're a genius 😎😎
There’s a mod to play as Mario in Sonic Adventure 1.
An Excellent video, now It'd be cool if you did sort of the opposite with Could Sonic Survive Super Mario Galaxy or Mario Odyssey.
Sunshine
Can Sonic survive Mario's Time Machine?
Mario doesn't have the baby luma, F.L.U.D.D. or Cappy with him normally. They were powerups he got in their games. It's how things work for him, he gets the power ups he needs from the story or the world. If he was in SA2 honestly I'd expect there to be Hedgehog Flowers around giving him Sonic's powers.
This was a cool hypothetical, seeing how Mario just deals with stuff Sonic may have had trouble with is really interesting and fun to see
True
Honestly, we should just mod Mario in Sonic Adventure 2. It’s be hype
So are all of Marios games cannon? Cuz I am pretty sure the stopwatch is from the RPGs. Also, Chaos Control also stops time, so theres literally no point in using that power up since they cancel each other out in a sense.😊
So what you're saying is, Mario could survive Sonic Adventure 2 if he had absolutely every powerup and upgrade he's ever had, all at the same time, and in infinite supply, ignoring the game's own conventions and story so he doesn't even have to be a part of it. I like the premise, but the execution isn't particularly imaginative. I understand having F.L.U.D.D, though. That one at least makes sense, even period-correct, but where is he asspulling all of these wing caps? Why are we assuming Mario is just as strong without the feather cape (he isn't)? Tossing Bowser, and tossing a literal castle are not in the same league of power. At the end of the day, Your Mario isn't playing nice with the restrictions the game puts on the player, so are you making your argument from a gameplay perspective, or lore?
If you wanted to settle this properly, put libsm64 into Sonic Adventure 2, like it was done to Sonic Generations. He's even got infinite wing cap in that.
More like if he was nerfed af without counting every power he gained in the 2D and 3D games or his arsenal from the spin offs and limiting his lore feats
@@mynameisntimportant1374 ok bud. Not what happened, but you do you. This is a purely arbitrary premise based in nothing, but go ahead and ignore that because I didn't shower a normal Italian man with praise.
@@LobotomyTC It didn't sound like it, or uh, read like it? It's hard to tell the intention through text sometimes
@@futureboi3190 I was only clued in from the other posts he made in the comments section.
Yeah, pretty much. Fair point.
Tho putting the character into the game would only answer the question in a purely mechanical way, there's some merit in trying to think outside the box. Tho this video takes it a bit too far completely mixing up mechanics and narrative and ignoring the former whenever it's convenient.
If this was purely a matter of game mechanics well SM64 Mario could just backwards long jump his way into infinite speed and glitch into any part of the map he wanted.
I do think this should stick to stuff he could actually have a chance of having in the game even if hypothetically. Cappy and Baby Luma are not tools they are allies who accompanied him on the journey of those games, there's no reason he'd still have them.
However if he was in SA2 there's a good chance he'd somehow find some sort of unique new power up from that game as he usually does. Maybe something related to the animals he can free in that game or the chaos drives. But this is now pure wild fanfiction speculation territory.
The craziest thing I can come up with, which I actually find somewhat fitting for his games, would be some sort of Hedgehog mushroom or flower that basically gives him the powers of Sonic whenever he absolutely needs it.
He would die red star only last 5 seconds he wouldnt be able to smash the glass bc it happens to fast and he doesnt have access to stars whenever he wants
The red stars last 20 seconds learn to count and sonic had 15 seconds to proceed what happened when he got captured and the whole tails revealing the chaos emerald was fake
3:20 there’s someone who already mentioned this, but if you don’t wanna watch the short, I’ll explain it. It’s not that shadow sonic but it’s dead. People thought shadow was sonic think about it. The only male hedgehog they knew at the time was sonic
Okay but... Mario didn't have most of these powers when SA2 came out
And even if he did he's never had them all at the same time
Hammer space and bottomless gloves honest reaction
What if Mario using the power of a launch star flew through the Ark and broke it in half
Wait since when has mario had a stopwatch to stop time lol
Super Mario Bros 2? Where the dream was explained to be an actual place in the manual?
@@david_cool427YT REALLY
@@codangarrison1195 Yes really
"Your speed is only temporary. Mine builds for eternity."
Obvious jokes aside, if anyone's thinking Mario just carrying all these powerups at the same time a little ridiculous, it's not as farfetched as you'd think as NSBMWii shows that he's able to carry up 99 of each powerup. That's not even mentioning the RPG's where also has an inventory. Fludd he'd have have to be a lot more strategic with than Sonic's inherent speed, and even then I don't think he reaches quite the same mobility, but for the ingame obstacles, I think it would suffice (and hey, maybe E.Gadd upgraded it to have all its nozzles.) The only real stretch is Mario's spin ability was granted to him by the baby Luma, even in the Galaxy games, you can't spin without him, but seeing as how they're both stars, maybe you could make the arguement that the Red Star gives him that ability for the Final Hazard anyway. So yes, Mario beating SA2 is *technially* plausible, even if we did have to hodgepodge all of his abilities to do this.
He does reach the same mobility
No. Mario beating SA2 is more than plausible
Damn, how did I miss all of these? I should turn on all notifications from this channel.
Yeah, I think Mario could survive. He's pretty fast too.
I wonder if Sonic could survive? He might have issues with water levels.
Yeah, I think Mario has abilities that can counter the Chaos Emeralds. He was able to beat Sonic at full power.
Wait he has Cappy and Fludd? But those two were never together.
6:06 President: I have security, don't I?
Lol Resident Evil Reptar.
Why did Shadow fall toward Earth anyway?
I mean, the events of ShadowTH 05 are still gonna happen. The Black Arms will be pulling up lmao. But he'll just not have a very stupid amnesia plotline.
That's just me being a nerd tho. Great video!
why are sonic fans so obsessed with mario, this ain't the 90s theyre in 2 different leagues now
Ikr we legit can't go with ONE video that revolves around Mario and Sonic without some whiny Sonic downplayers just calling Mario weak even though they probably don't know a LICK about Mario or his legacy.
At that point you can just say
"SONIC USES SPEED SHOES AND INVINCIBILITY TO GET TRHOUGH THIS LEVEL"
BECAUSE YOU MADE MARIO HAVE ACCESS TO EVERYTHING FOR SOME REASON
BUT YOU WOULD BE ABLE TO DO THE SAME FOR SONIC
Maybe a redo of this challenge would make it more fair with the power ups being in item boxes and Mario being able to use Cappy or Fludd, but can't use both in the same level
Because Sonic doesn't have infinite invincibilities or all 7 Chaos Emeralds, why should Mario?
The fact that Mario would require dozens of items in your theories just proves that the Sonicverse is way out of Mario's league. I'd give him the truck chase and MAYBE the rocket, but he'd get destroyed by Shadow
Not exactly, for the truck, it could catch him, but even if it did, it's more like an inconvenience than a threat.
For Shadow, I feel like Power-Ups would be slightly more necessary for the second fight
Me looking back at the Mario 64 port in generations: It doesn't look too good for Mario. There we have a full display on mario trying an act of city escape, while being turn to road kill like dozens of times. It pretty much answers question of mario's speed and durability as well.
The fact Mario was heavily nerfed and still succeeded proves how the sonicverse is not surviving the plumber
@@mynameisntimportant1374 Sure buddy, keep telling yourself that. He wouldn't do jack against Shadow or Biolizard if it really comes down to it.
@@Corvolet5 yeah anything except conceptually erasing them out of existence but keep coping
@9:14 Mario can also use Cappy to possess one of the Beetle GUN robots and just fly through this part of the level. Pretty much any time a Beetle robot shows up, Mario can just use it to fly over that part of the level. It's kinda busted.
I mean, the whole thing about everyone getting Sonic and Shadow confused in the game is because Shadow was originally supposed to be called Terios with the original design literally being a 1-to-1 model of Sonic with the only difference being the gloves, shoes, and quill color. I don’t quite remember why they changed this, but the information is online. As for why they still have everyone confused about Shadow being Sonic, my guess is that the writers didn’t want to change half the plot of the game just because of the redesign of the new antagonist.
So i scrolled down some sections and found miraculously this video. The premise seems irresistable enough to give it a watch.
A platform character switching to a more momentum based setting, trying to survive using his given abilities and interactions with friends in place of the actual main character.
It does show how Mario could survive, the world of sonic adventure 2 under the right conditions. So consider this plothole filled.
And with that like a hundred new ones springing up.
- Is Mario really fast enough to match Sonic's speed in anyway? (Mostly to outrun truck- kun?)
- Do Sonic's friends trust him immediately?
- Is Mario in this case overly reliant on his power ups and gadgets to overcome obstacles?
- How does Mario have unlimited access to those power ups and gadgets contrary to his previous gameplays, when he is randomly picking them up? Some of them even being unattainable?
- How does without those gadgets and all by himself? (Of course, he's free to use Sonic's power ups. If he can find them that is.)
For plot convenience, mario is allowed to turn super via chaos emeralds.
To the saving shadow part: It's quite the noble idea to save shadow from his imminent demise, but using a power star to prolong shadow's super form might eventually don't work. Since Super forms doesn't seem to interact with foreign power sources besides chaos energy. Even a Mario cannot save everyone by himself.
Hammer space
He could carry all the regular power ups with him but it depends on the games. In some games he can carry several, in others he can't. But stuff tied to the plot of past games like Cappy or the baby luma, not likely. He leaves those behind and only had them for one game.
Beating the truck wouldn't be that hard if he uses physics and times his jumps well, he wouldn't be running more like constantly jumping and diving.
He's a very reliable and charismatic guy people tend to trust him easily no problem there.
He'd end up having to rely on tools and powerups a lot for sure tho, simply because those challenges weren't built for him.
@@----x----- Funnily enough, there's a sonic generations mod featuring mario as playable character: ua-cam.com/video/q1kt6SmpDMk/v-deo.htmlsi=EQKAOlWJY5nWuEbH
This might not be the modern mario as you know him, but this is the closest what we get of mario going through Sonic levels.
@@----x----- game mechanics
NO
That GUN confuses Shadow with Sonic has its origin in the development of the game. Earlier, Shadow was called Terios and had a design much closer to Sonic that could explain confusion a lot better. Later in development, Terios was replaced with the Shadow we know today, but the story remained to be based on his old design.
At the time of Sonic Adventure 2's release Mario has had 8 mainline games:
1. Super Mario Bros (1985)
2. Super Mario Bros The Lost Levels
3. Super Mario Bros 2
4. Super Mario Bros 3
5. Super Mario Land
6. Super Mario World
7. Super Mario Land 2 6 Golden Coins
8. Super Mario 64
Honestly, I feel the answer would be much easier to figure out if someone could mod Mario with his 64 moveset into SA2 and just see if you can beat the game like that.
Bro missed the part where chaos control needed to be used to stop the ark from crashing into the planet.
Mario has also lifted & kicked away a castle In super Mario world. I’m sure a truck wouldn’t be any trouble for him
Also I don’t get how people confused sonic & shadow for each other either. I hope they don’t do that in the movie
Mario would able to win in theory with his abilities but if he had to beat the stages in practice hes COOKED
1:37 Mario has developed an inmunity to fall damage over time, being affected normally by it in 64 (unless he breaks his fall doing something), is inmune to fall damage so long as he lands sliding on his chest or crashing down on his butt in Sunshine, and being fully inmune in Galaxy and onwards, only getting stunned a second from receiving the full impact on his feet
2:49 Mario being close to running out of water unveilsthe fact that he can water a surface and use it to slide forwards at speeds closer to those of Sonic (not agility tho, he can make slight turns but to make an U-turn in small spaces, he has to either stop entirely or slow down a lot to keep the water under his chest.)
4:40 alternatively, he could use the cape or tanooki suit to knock Shadow out of his homing attack
9:48 picture Mario & Luigi gameplay without Luigi. easy.
10:15 Super Stars aren't something you can bring anywhere easily, those are found, and any skills or powers Paper has shown are exclusive to him, since Mario has met Paper Mario, proving they are separate entities
10:58 the only way I see Mario reaching Shadow's speed and maneuverability is with Mario Bros. Z logic. the stopwatch hasn't made an appearance outside of Sub-con (yet) which is a literal dream Mario once had.
12:58 supposing Mario goes Super (either the normal way or the Sonic Heroes way), the Spin Attack is an ability the Lumas give him, not an ability he learned. that said, he could use FLUDD in this battle, he could use the Turbo nozzle in short bursts to dodge and weave through the barrier of balls
13:43 okokok...
number one, 6th timestamp's explanation on the stopwatch
number two, even if Mario saved Shadow fromhaving amnesia during Heroes and Shadow 05', the Black Arms would still invade Earth.
Before starting, I can see Mario functioning in 2D Sonic games. In the Mario&Luigi Series and Super Mario Odyssey, Mario can roll into a ball, though he can't rev up like the spin dash. Mario's twirl jump from games like World and Sunshine are comparable to Blaze and Espio's' Axel Jump, and everyone knows Mario can wall jump and ground pound.
3D Sonic, on the other hand? I don't think Mario has an equivalent to the Homing Attack. There's those hat moves in Odyssey, but those are enabled by Cappy, not Mario himself.
Nooo, he deadass ruined shadow's character arc by not letting him sacrifice himself 😭
I feel like resorting to pulling out power ups kind of cheats.
Like, things like Fludd or Cappy, fair enough, they're permanent items that give movesets. But random stuff like stopping time with a random item I'm not even sure which game it's from... I just feel like it makes it TOO easy?
Like, by that logic, Sonic can just pull out invincibility or the Chaos Emeralds, or any other random power up that is not part of his base moveset or a permanent upgrade.
It’s literally from Mario bros 2 don’t give an opinion if you don’t know what you’re talking about
@@mynameisntimportant1374 The opinion was that pulling out power ups was kind of cheating. Just because I can't identify where every single powerup is from in a series does not invalidate that opinion, or my right to hold it.
@@XaranAlamas bud there were people who killed for much less when giving an opinion on something that they didn’t know also it’s Mario arsenal
@mynameisntimportant1374 Unless he has it the entire game, it's still a power up, and therefore, I still personally feel like it's cheating unless Mario can just pull one out whenever he wants.
Heck, if we're allowing power-ups, why not just pull our a Super Star? Why use anything else?
Mario doesn’t even make it pass city escape realistically. Shadow would whoop his ass. And the biolizard cooks Mario. Without a teammate shadow would die. And Mario would die as well.
When you don’t play Mario games
Everyone keeps mixing up shadow and sonic even tho they look different is because the story of the game was written before they finished his design, writers had a vague idea that shadow would look like sonic. And In shadows concept art especially Terios, he looks just like sonic but like a villain.
YOOOO cool video dude 😎😎
Glad you liked it! 😃
Mario can't star spin without the Luma Rosalina gave him in Mario Galaxy. And he didn't have it during this
He quite literally could
@@mynameisntimportant1374How is the star spin the same as Mario's normal spin? Please explain.
@@david_cool427YT the star spin is just a normal spin but in Mario galaxy
Any other game wouldn’t changed
@@mynameisntimportant1374Ah ok thx
I'm on mobile so when I saw your pfp for the first time I thought it was a heavily edited version of that green m&m with Steve Harvey's head doing the "had to do it to em" pose xd
"FLUDD can then propel Mario using the Turbo nozzle" *WRONG* FLUDD can only store two nozzles at a time, and one always has to be the "spray" nozzle.
Oh definitely. Sure, Mario would be slower than Sonic but he can definitely keep up.
Edit: Aye! Shadow doesn’t die. Though, boooo. No character arc for Shadow or Shadow the Hedgehog game.
I wasn’t expecting this to be a powerscaling video, but just you playing as Mario 64 Mario in SA2.
Amazing video
Mario's stopwatch would not give him an edge over Shadow in the eclipse-cannon fight as Chaos Control removes Shadow from time, thus negating the stopwatch's effect. Using Cappy on the Egg Golem was a nice touch though :p
firstly, mario just blatantly wouldn’t have access to a LOT of these things considering he’s not in his own world, nor under the specific circumstances to use his most powerful abilities. even if we assume he has access to powerups in saving like in mario world, he wouldn’t be able to have ALL of these feasibly, since the world doesn’t give them to him, and neither fludd nor cappy are around to give him their innate abilities.
second, even if we’re assuming that he can do all that and get this far, the time stop ability wouldn’t work. chaos control does the exact same thing, and it’s shown that it can nullify the effects of other time stops with metal overlord’s fight, thusly, shadow would STILL beat mario.
i love mario as much as the next person but i feel like it needs to be accepted that as powerful as he is, he doesn’t stand a chance against the comparatively insane universe sonic lives in. for all intents and purposes, mario is just a normal guy with above average strength and jump height without his power-ups. humans are powerless against hedgehogs who can go multiple times the speed of sound and curl up into balls that essentially work like supersized bullets.
that aside, this video was a really interesting listen. as a sonic fan i’m innately biased so if i missed anything, someone tell me.
Why would the events of Shadow the Hedgehog not happen? Wouldn't Black Boom still invade Earth?
Can Shadow "survive" Yoshi's Island? Dealing with enemies is one thing, but can he save the babies while stopping a magic army from taking over time and space?
I agree with your explanations for most of this except for one particular thing, I feel like you're hard capping with the Shadow fights.
I can maybe understand your reasoning for the way the Prison Island fight could go with Shadow underestimating Mario and not giving it his all but on the second fight there's just no way that Shadow loses. Not only is he MUCH faster than Mario but he's also not a pushover. Still really durable and strong too but the most important thing you forgot to take into account specifically is that Shadow can both slow down AND stop time with Chaos Control so Mario's stopwatch wouldnt do him much good. Combine that with the fact that the road under their feet is literally falling apart and that Mario could lose his Cape during the fight and theres a VERY high chance that's where Mario loses although funnily enough I think that the story would continue as normal anyways because canonically Sonic loses too (as seen in Shadow the Hedgehog since the Eclipse Cannon is still functional).
Oh and lastly on a side note just wanted to say that it's kinda weird to put modern day Mario into an old Sonic game. By that logic we should also use modern versions of the Sonic cast and in that case I think Mario wouldnt even make it out of Prison Island
You're the only one who's capping. Shadow would be toast the moment Mario uses a Starman or Mega Mushroom, he'd be blindsided by the invincibility. The Gold Flower one-tapped Bowser's first phase in New Super Mario Bros 2, so THAT could take Shadow out in one hit as well. Mario has the durability to tank Shadow's attacks in Chaos Control, while Shadow would crumple like paper after being hit in the Stopwatch. (Castle punt aside, Mario casually hammered Bowser across a 12 mile horizon) Mario's dealt with collapsing terrain before on multiple occasions and has a flight Power-Up that don't need a running start like the Red Star or Wing Cap, and could create terrain with the Cloud Flower. (Also, Mario’s kit was limited, he has stuff from the RPGs to stun Shadow, put him to sleep, or just immediately damage him from a distance)
It's not weird putting Mario into an older Sonic game. It'd be disingenuous to limit Mario to what he had at the time or buff the Sonic characters who canonically get stronger over time to their modern stats just because this is earlier in Sonic's history, and even limiting Mario wouldn't change the outcome as he'd still have everything he needs (his stats came from Super Mario World, just switch the Red Star for another use of the Wing Cap and have Mario use a Tanooki Leaf or the Cape Feather to slow his descent into City Escape) Also, you must be new here, this guy put Luigi in Resident Evil 1 and gave him everything from all three Luigi’s Mansion games, limiting the challenger to what they had at the time of the game's release isn't NathinOut's style.
It's a hard pill for the Versus Community to swallow, but Mario has fought Stellar, Universal, above battles in his base form alone (Bowser surviving a Black Hole at the end of Galaxy 2 and one of the Mario Parties, the Galaxy 1 universe reset just gave him a headache, and Mario cracked his shell at the end credits fight of Bowser's Inside Story. And in Paper Jam, Mario fought on par with the Paper cast who survived Sammer Kingdom's universe being consumed by the Void, dreams in Dream Team are universes as shown by the presence of actual outer space and stars when Giant Dreamy Luigi jumps into space to use Finishing Bros and Antasma gained his power by eating them, Dreamy Bowser had the power of the Dream Stone which had uncountable dreams), has dodged and intercepted massively hypersonic meteors (Bowser in both Galaxy games), dodged lightspeed laser beams (Superstar Saga, Partners in Time, and one enemy in Galaxy 1), and has MFTL scaling like scaling from fighting False Millennium Star who traveled across part of a galaxy in 3 seconds in Mario Party 3 and dodging the same meteors Bowser used to shoot down Lubba’s ship that could travel through dozens of galaxies in Galaxy 2. (And Mario has his own wonky Immesurable crap) Even in Modern Sonic, Mario would rip any base form character in half with his bare hands and would still beat the shit out of Time Eater, though higher tiers like Egg Wizard and The End are more up in the air cuz of Maginaryworld scaling and downscaling Mario from the Zeekeeper who debatably scales to the Dream Depot (Mario’s Maginaryworld but way bigger as it has every dream yet to be dreampt)
@@floatingf8783 go check out VsBattle Sonic profiles, my man, Sonic and Shadow were unaffected by concepts such as the White Void which is nothingness. He didn't need power ups or shit like that. Sonic has been fighting such characters with no powerups, and even in Frontiers. Mario, for example, is not winning against characters like Infinite, and ESPECIALLY not the Titans, he's also not winning against characters like Erazor Djinn, Dark Gaia, SOLARIS OR TIME EATER.
You guys like using Dreamy Bowser. Sonic has fought at least four of him and surpassed them.
@@floatingf8783Nah fr tho. I'm tired of people downplaying Mario cuz they can't be bothered to learn more about him and his legacy.
@@floatingf8783 shadow still no cells, a single chaos emerald is universal in power and shadow is equal to the power of a chaos emerald when he removes his inhibiter rings.
@@BoomBoxBlazthe glazing is crazy
Sonic is not touching dreamy bowser and Mario already did everything sonic for years before he did them but infinitely better
I don't know if he should have instant access to pick up abilities any number of times needed.
I legitimately thought this was SA2 modded where you play as Mario
I feel mario would have a super form via chaos emeralds as much as i love sonic over mario but i feel he has a more pure heart than sonic so he def should be able to use them
I'd say Mario's story ends on the space colony ark, Eggman sees Mario pull out a hammer and instantly ejects him into space, the pod explodes before he gets a chance to use his hammer or even the red star. Game Over.
The Mario downplay is crazy lol. Did you not forget the context within that part of the story? Mario could easily escape while Eggman isn't looking and monologuing to Sonic's friends. Even IF Mario got launched out into space, Mario would have definitely survive this. This dude can casually tank explosions to the face and come out fine.
@@david_cool427YTWHAT MARIO DOWN PLAY OR NERF YOU ARE LITERALLY GIVING HIM EVERY ADVANTAGE OR POWER UP HE EVER HAD IN HIS NAD
y'know im gonna do the same thing i did to the other 8 year old fanboy, copy paste my argument
dude like, your giving mario an infinite supply of everything he has ever used vs sonic that only had his powers. Its like putting in a fight all the looney tunes vs a regular old man.
We gotta set some ground rules so its fair!
1st mario participates in the story (shadow uses a Wario suit during the game)
2nd no power ups or allies. If we give mario power ups to fly and be invincible or an ally that can posses anything, that would be so easy and unfair
3rd no cartoony-looney tuney plot armor and exagerated feats, its been stated so many times that sonic can run faster than the speed of sound, but it has never been stated that mario can LIFT A BILLION TONS just because of an in game (non canon) cutscene that was when the lore was bad written.
Base Mario is cooked because if he can get hurt by just touching a goomba those lasers, explosions, chases, fights and other scenarios wont go very good for him
@@Bluejay_135 Fax dude! It's like saying "can Sonic survive super Mario Galaxy? Well, Sonic simply turns into Hyper Sonic and flies through all the galaxies and one-shots Bowser" you are giving the character in question all of his most broken abilities that he wouldn't actually have access to. (Red stars don't exist in the Sonic universe)
@@WilliamCurtisBK thanks dude, you must be cool since you know about hyper sonic, he's often forgotten, lost media even.
I love this series so much!
Glad your enjoying it so much! 😁
Assuming Mario was limited to things at the time of Sonic Adventure 2's release, the space sections would probably be where Mario gets stumped. With the luma and a red star, with the item pocket mechanic in general, yeah sure. Mario can just skip "city escape" with a mega mushroom, if we're going that deep into the game releases.
Fantastic video: now do Sonic vs. Mario Odyssey please
3:18 This could be because Shadow went through multiple designs that they couldn’t stick with the final until late into development, after the story was done. One of the more known early Shadow designs is named Terios which just looked like Sonic in an edgy phase which explains the mixup a bit more
Thank you for the video it's fire
This video is completely inaccurate! Mario should've broken the truck in City Escape with a single punch like El Macho.
I want to see the takes for the other stages of Mario just punts the truck away.
Watch the collision of the ark be stopped by Mario parrying it back to orbit.
Survive SA2? I don't see why not. Lots of weak, useless, cartoon humans survive SA2.
You forgot the fact mario would need to bring the nozzles with him
Could Resident Evil Leon survive Bioshock Infinite
Shadow can one shot Mario if he wanted to
Too bad he’s not a playable character in Smash Bros
Nice, but another idea us if mario can only have one power up at the start and one in his inventory, if he loses those, they gone (cappy doesn’t count)
I am not sure if fludd counts either, it depends if fludd is with him at the time
The new soup series and bottomless gloves : stop talking
Mario has the toon force
Sonic dosen't
The answer is yes
You know, after Super Mario Sunshine gets decompiled maybe we will get a character library to use in a game like libsm64
Saying that shadow is only hypersonic is a really severe downplay. In "Sonic advance 3," after gemerl uses the chaos emralds to transform into ultimate gemerl, he flees into outer space to fight super sonic in the nonagression zone. All of them Start on earth and fly past many stars, most notably, eggman is capable of keeping up in his eggmobile, with base sonic being able to keep up with the same eggman on multiple occasion. This would result in shadow having massively faster than light reaction time even in his base form, which means he blows this "hypersonic" scaling out of the water. You could argue that shadow is just so much faster than Mario that he could just use one of his abilities to incapacitate him.
4:55 i agree that Mario could stand his ground but wouldn't grabbing Shadow or even Sonic while spinning be the equivalent of grabbing a spinning buzzsaw?
Only if he lets Shadow keep spinning. If Mario grabs him BY THE QUILL that oughta stop him. Though just hammering Shadow is probably the better option.
@@floatingf8783 Yeah, the hammer seems like a better option imo.
@@gameguider321GO Mario has survived far worse than a buzzsaw lol.
@@david_cool427YT That's obvious.
But I mean, it's not the explosive factor, it's the cutting factor. This still Shadow we're talking about. The guy that can slice through countless machines just as good as Sonic can.
Mario is durable but if he grabs Shadow mid homing attack, his hands are gone.
What I'm basically saying is that something that's waterproof can still be lit on fire. Even in the games Mario has to find a way around fighting enemies with spikes wether it be finding a weak point or using a hammer.
I'm not saying Mario would lose, I'm saying that he can't just grab Shadow.
@@floatingf8783
That's assuming Mario is fast enough, and observant enough to grab that single quill that's moving at impossible speeds, slicing Mario regardless.
If a single grain of sand hit the earth at 1% the speed of light, the earth would quite literally obliterate into nothing, so just imagine what would happen to Mario touching Shadow as he's moving at immeasurable speeds.
You should put Sonic and Tails in Mario and Luigi Dream Team with all their stuff from the Dark Brotherhood RPG, that'd be a fun twist.
Sonic and tails aren’t even surviving their first encounter with antasma lol
Actually Mario would immediately lose on City Escape for the same reason most Sonic characters can't even pass it. He doesn't have a slide or roll to go under the gate for the truck.
It's never needed, but in Super Mario 64, Mario can crawl on the ground. He can easily get past the gate. Dealing with the truck however is another matter entirely.
@zeldagamer2123 Normal rolling doesn't work on it implying it's especially low. It only works with the somersault Sonic and Shadow can do.
He can just smash the gate with his fist
But how would they stop the ARK? It took both shadow and sonic using chaos control to stop it and mario can't use chaos control
Mario doesn’t take fall damage!!!
"Could Mario Survive Sonic Adventure 2?" Well based on the video not without prep time, if he didn't have a bunch of items and powers from the get go then I don't see Mario making it to the end as easily if at all. This honestly felt more like New Game + more than anything.
I think of the power ups like sonics upgrades, the light speed dash for example was an upgrade that sonic collected, without it he couldnt beat crazy gadget, so the red star would be more or less an upgrade
I feel like all the main Sonic levels are easily trivialize by simply flying to the goal, Mario really needs just 1 powerup for that.
Out of all the bosses, Shadow 2nd Boss Fight will be the toughest battle for Mario, since he needs to push his very limits to keep up, and he may need a powerup for that.
It would be disingenuous to not give Mario his Power-Ups, everyone else got THEIR stuff in the other videos.
I mean this is sonic's world. Where is Mario finding all these stars and capes. This just seems like taking all the overpowered aspects of the character from different games with different contexts and putting it in to give him a chance of survival.
Though honestly thats a bit nit picky. Regardless its an interesting exercise to see how mario at his best can rise up to sonic and gang.
@@mondopatrickFax
I think at the start, Mario would either not be arrested for not being confused for Shadow like Sonic is, or would be arrested for being friends with Sonic and since, unlike Sonic, he's not a rebel, he would not attempt to escape the flight, as we see in Super Mario Sunshine he doesn't try to escape at all when he's falsely acused and arrested, Bowser Jr. even comments on that fact saying it was a shame they didn't locked him up, if they did, he probably wouldn't have tried to escape
So he would be directly sent into Prison Island, if when in there, he changed his mind and chose to escape, he would skip City Escape entierly and go through the rest of the game, if he didn't and continued locked there, he probably would've exploded when Shadow placed the timed bomb on the island, and if he was proven to be innocent and had no way to have connection with Sonic at that moment, he would also escape alive
i see no reason that Black doom wouldn't still attack, but Shadow wouldn't have the same issues with his memory (also remember sonic heroes happens first, so Omega is never put in the chamber to watch shadow, so Omega probably stays on Eggman's side, by swapping mario and sonic and turning SA2 into MA2 (Mario Adventure 2) you've completely changed the trajectory of the sonic universe
Shadow also have stop time before and he get stronger in the years