Crud I forgot Sonic Dream Team ALSO a lot of people have talked about how Sonic outruns a black hole in Sonic Colors. Looking at his IN GAME SPEED he is slower than the black hole and should’ve been sucked up by it. I’ll make a video on it eventually (also he does get sucked up by it in the end so I mean I’m still right. Definitely. Totally)
Technically, Sonic's max speed is actually way higher in Unleashed, Colors, Gens, Forces, and Frontiers, as Sonic's speed can actually be multiplied monumentally by simply doing the Quickstep. He moves to the left or right in near an instant WITHOUT losing any forward momentum, meaning that in that moment, he's moving diagonally at a SUBSTANTIALLY higher speed all together. Likely exceeding the speed of sound
@@FunFun-zq6pj there's a sonic boom effect every time he uses the boost, and if in theory every time he runs even in the classics it's just that for gameplay reasons he's slowed down a lot
@@XavielArt Yeah but I wouldn't consider those because they're not intentional. Unlike the quickstep which is designed explicitly to not alter your forward momentum.
@@FTN_Ale There's also Gnoggin's point in his video debunking Game Theory's old on, that Sonic is probably going slower than he's capable of intentionally to minimize any destruction that his speed might bring. He calculated that a boosting Sonic in Unleashed with the quickstep is just below the sound barrier, (although the methods were very different), and theorized that he's probably intentionally keeping himself below the threshold.
Bro has the math skills to be an engineer but instead he's calculating Sonic's speed in every game And honestly this is the best form of entertainment for me so thank you
If you move him to a insanely big area and look at it from like high up he look real slow. Not what is happening of ofcourse but the feel is equally as important as the speed itself
@@radudumitru3306probably because it's open world so the world is very big, people are used to sonic in small environments but now he's in an open space. It's like when you feel fast running through your hallway, but outside you are really slow
Not code wise, display estimation wise. The way speed is handled in 3D game engines is not a direct parallel to how it appears when doing estimations like this, as there's a lot of margin for error. Ask anyone who's modded Sonic Generations and Unleashed, the Modern Sonic player in Generations actually moves faster in-engine than Unleashed.
The fact that sonic is going at less than 300 mph in the games makes me extremely curious on what a game would look like at sonics true speed (like at the speed of sound)
Classic sonic has been going well over the speed of sound. Cd sonic is moving faster than light to time-travel LOL. Modern sonic is around hundreds of thousands of times faster than light in cannon.
Small addition to your stairs explanation. Texturing is one way of doing it, another way is to use 2 seperate meshes. One for the stairs which has no collisions and the other being the slope mesh that is invisible and has the collisions. Both these methods are still used in modern game dev, we can use stuff like IKs to hide the fact that we are using slopes.
Funny that Sonic is protrayed to be incredibly fast but 225mph is the best speed, but consdering this is Sonic, the levels are probably from his perspective, so he would be going so much faster, and time just feels slower to him when he's running that fast (mainly in the boost games at least)
13:16 Another great location to test top speed in Shadow is GUN Fortress. Run along either the left or right walls far away from enemies and obstacles. It's through the first garage about 10 seconds into the level. You reach top speed very fast and will maintain it for about 5-6 whole seconds. ( Which is an absurdly long amount of time in Shadow, given how platform heavy it is. Makes speedrunning GUN fortress hella fun. )
For the people who think this is his actual speed, no, he's just the speed of the gameplay. Sonic has time traveled with his speed in Sonic CD, traveled across a infinite amount of space to his universe in minutes in the storybook games, restored time and space with his speed in Sonic generations, outran multiple black holes in Sonic Shuffle. His speed is nerfed during gameplay because his lore-accurate speed would break the game.
@konoheisenbergda This video isn't even about Sonic's canonical speed. Like I said, his Canon speed would break the game. Not even the mods that increase the speed of the gameplay is 1% of his speed 😭
@@konoheisenbergda Saying Sonic is subsonic fodder based off of the gameplay is like saying the characters in Sparking zero are subsonic fodder because we know many DBS characters are FTL+ but like I said, canon speeds would break the game. If this isn't a good example, I don't know what is.
My guess was it was gonna be either Adventure game as the 13th fastest Sonic, and the fact that they were 14th and 12th respectively has me both so tight yet so impressed with myself
Technically speaking, Sonic in CD actually runs over 88mph. This is caused by the time posts, meaning that CD could potentially have the fastest sonic ever.
The game where Sonic is the 13th fastest? Sonic Forces: Speed Battle Sonic is actually around the 90th fastest (one of the slowest) characters in the game.
Thank you so much for measuring the fact classic sonic has a different height then modern. In showcases of sonic in comparison to eggman (modern) it’s clearly shown that its modern who is 3’3- but in multiple videos people say its classics too and skip over it.
When you did Unleashed did you take into account the first stretch of Chun Nan and the Egg Beetle fight? In those two instances the speed is higher than anywhere else in the game and the devs claimed that it was allegedly over 300mph to scale. Could have just been marketing though, idk 🤷
I did not, I should’ve looked into it more! I watched some gameplay and also just had sonic boost forward with max speed and assumed it was the fastest 🤷♂️
@@llennoxyt well it was a great video and I think it's good to get a measure of how he travels for the majority of the game moreso than just a couple odd moments anyway but I thought you might find that neat! If you ever do a video showing how fast all of the vehicles go in Shadow the Hedgehog that would be pretty funny, they are mostly probably like 15mph 😅 Once again, awesome vid!
@@llennoxytno way you put his Mach speed part slower then Mach speed in 06 he in those moments would be 767 mph Sonic in generation make sonic booms when he boost putting him faster then sound In unleashed there is a speed meter this has a speed for the light speed dash and sonic was clocked moving 4 times faster then the light speed dash Now in lore sonic has irrelevant speed in generation he restarted time with just his speed Forces he has a infinite speed feat because he ran out of a infinite sized void
I would argue the final section of Dragon Road immediately after the Boss in the final stretches Sonic is moving exponentially faster in his animation. Running On Water is another feat itself he can sink without the boost but with it moving in such a way that defy physics like an aircraft with aerodynamics.
Honestly 225 makes so much sense for Sonic's day to day max speed. Like he tops out at light speed but i feel like 99% that top speed feels perfect for a personal mental cap
Would have been way better than Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. Not saying M&S is a bad franchise but they could do so much more with a Mario x Sonic crossover series, and now that Mario & Sonic 2024 has been cancelled because the Olympic corporate overlords wanted to focus on NFTs 2 years after the respective economic bubble burst, we have a non-zero chance of actually getting that game in the future.
You aint too far off. At that time period, the bigwigs were wanting Sonic to be more Mario-esque to boost his popularity, reducing the friend number, lowering his speed, simple stories, etc etc
@@switchstar098 the biggest red flag to me is the fact that it has a fucking RUN BUTTON. Plenty of mario games have that. What kind of sonic game has a fucking run button?
You weren't kidding about this video being light on math! You trimmed a lot of the fat with your explanations and I really enjoyed how the final result of that turned out c:
0:41 Didn't expect you to include these anyway, but no, they don't "follow a very similar structure of the standard definition or high-definition of their respective games." Luckily, Colors on DS and Generations on 3DS are closer to the Rush games than their console counterparts, so you already have those covered.
I absolutely loved your video, and I'm subscribing to this amazing channel from now on. However, there's one point I don't quite agree with, or rather, something that might have been overlooked. Sonic in Generations is limited in many stages, making him considerably slower than he truly is. This is because many levels are ports from previous games, and they wouldn't be playable at Sonic's real speed. This is particularly evident in the Unleashed Project, where Generations Sonic, at top speed, actually surpasses Unleashed Sonic, reaching up to 250.34 mph in open areas like Savannah Citadel, Cool Edge, and Skyscraper Scamper. In these areas, he shows his true speed because, unlike Generations levels, the ones in Unleashed are designed for such high speeds. Not to mention that the Generations movement is superior, featuring moves like the Walkjump, skid, stomp, and Light Speed Dash. Plus, we completely overlook Super Sonic in Generations, who becomes even faster. Aside from that, great video, my friend! Keep up the awesome work! 👌🏻🔥🔥
I don't think the height difference should have been factored in, official bios and height charts state both versions of Sonic as being the same height. The gap only exists to hide the proportional difference between the two styles and to help differentiate them, but it's otherwise non-diegetic. This would also solve Sonic Pocket Adventure where it's pretty obvious that they changed to the Adventure designs last minute. They forgot to change Eggman's outfit in the Egg-Mobile and Tails's eyes in his sprites for piloting the Tornado. I'm also confused about the demake exclusions. I get excluding Lost World because of how similar the 3DS version was to the Wii U version, but Unleashed SD was very unique with how it handled Sonic's movement and Colors DS was a Rush game that I'm pretty sure deviated a lot more from Colors than Pocket Adventure did from Sonic 2
Honestly I just didn’t want to do them because if already spent hours on everything else. Also since the demakes share a story I figured it doesn’t make “sense” for sonic to be running slower during the events of the game just because I measured a different version of a game
Those charts are 30 years old. They have been objectively retconned by now because we have SEEN, WITH COMPARISON, how tall Sonic used to be versus how tall he is now. It isn't just an art style. It hasn't been for 13 years. Classic Sonic is younger Sonic. Period
@@SSL_2004 I literally can't find any evidence that classic Sonic's age or height was retconned outside of Sonic's age in general going from a semi-vague 15-16 to specifically 15 in the early 2000s. If they made everyone's height lore accurate, classic Sonic and Tails would have *massive* heads compared to their modern counterparts unless they used Saturn era Uekawa art as the basis for the models, so they have to be shorter visually even if they aren't shorter in lore. This of course also extended to Eggman, where the argument of him being shorter because he's younger flat out doesn't work because he's old enough to be Maria's cousin, which realistically puts him in his late 30s as a best case scenario
@@PercyPanleo Can't we go off of whatever games had both of them in a crossover? I'm largely unfamiliar with Sonic as a whole but I know it happened in one of the games.
@@titan1umtitan if you're referring to character bios, no, unfortunately not. The character bios in Generations are very basic and IIRC use the same text between the classic and modern versions of characters. Forces meanwhile just doesn't have any character bios.
I just wanna say that the main reason old games did not have stairs with individually modeled steps was not necessarily because of the difficulty of animating it, it was moreso done because it saves on a LOT of polygons to just make it a sloped plane for both the main mesh and collision model. It was done for optimization more than animation.
I had a feeling that Unleashed and Generations would be at the top. But Frontiers being that high up surprised me! Btw, awesome channel you've got here, I'm definitely gonna subscribe 👍
True In fact, that is something that can be seen in Sonic Generations, which is limited by the level design. In Unleashed Project, you can see the true speed of that Sonic, which is exaggerated, being in theory the fastest Sonic.
In fact, this is something evident in Sonic Generations, where the level design imposes limitations. In the Unleashed Project, you can witness Sonic's true speed, which is quite exaggerated, making him theoretically the fastest Sonic.
Interesting thing to note about Sonic 1, in the original releases Sonic’s run speed had a cap on it and to go any faster you had to roll. This cap was removed in the 2013 remaster for IOS and various future releases.
Interesting addition. I've only played Frontiers, but I know for certain a drop dash is faster than his normal maxed speed, by a LOT as well, similar to this
Fun fact: Sonic once stated that he only gets faster and stronger every second, which we can see here. Though it changes a lot, we can see his modern, older version is far faster than his younger version in most instances. That being said, we can assume that the more games that are released, Sonic will only speed up more and more, so maybe he actually will be faster than the speed of sound one day
He's already faster than time in lore. The only reason he's so slow here is for gameplay reasons. While using math to calculate speed is fun, if anybody tries to use it to calculate CANON speed it's just wrong
@@zeno743Canonically, that's a nonsense statement. I think canon is just throwing cool-sounding things out there. Alternatively, I want to know how Sonic T. Hedgehog handles blue-shifting of light as he approaches c. ... Heh-heh. BLUE shift. But seriously, the apparent wavelength of light in front of you gets shorter as you go faster. It'll rapidly shift into ultraviolet and he'll be blind well before it shifts into high-energy gamma rays and kills him. (We are, obviously, ignoring atmospheric drag and the consequent friction heating.)
I knew from the start Unleashed Sonic is the top dog in the game but it was still interesting to see other measurements. I for sure did not expect 06 Sonic to be even remotely fast. I think it just shows that all that matters is good controls, feel, level design and the pace make all the difference.
In the games Sonic is obviously power scaled a bit on his speed so you (the player) could actually control the guy and see whats up ahead. I think SEGA did a great job of giving us this sense of speed(Most of the time) . Like, you're actually going THIS fast. But in most media he's said to be as fast as the speed of sound.
One thing to note is that the methodology employed to measure speed in 3D games is probably a bit flawed. Measuring distance by the pixel count of 3D graphics is unreliable, because 3D graphics aren't drawn like 2D graphics. The best representation of how fast something is moving in a 3D engine is the delta of units per frame it moves in the engine. In 3D game engines, objects don't move relative to screen space (pixels), but rather relative to each other in virtual space. It's more like how you'd consider speed in the real world than how you would in 2D raster graphics. Many modern engines use meters as their default unit of measurement for scale, but some older and proprietary engines have their own units (For example, the Source engine used by Half Life and TF2 uses a unit called a "hammer unit"). Therefore, the most direct and accurate way to find the speed of something in a 3D game engine is to find the delta of how many engine units per frame it moves, and then find out the ratio of engine units to meters. That would give you meters per frame, multiplied by the framerate the game runs at, to give you meters per second. Using delta can be difficult, and for a lot of these games this information is pretty hard to find without serious modding knowledge, but it will give you the most accurate answer to the character's speed. One factoid I picked up over the years is that Modern Sonic in Generations actually moves faster than Sonic in Unleashed, it's just that Unleashed's visual design makes it _appear_ that you're going faster. As for 2D, the delta of pixels per frame is fine, as that's how most 2D games calculate distance on the engine level anyway. Just make sure the game is actually 2D, utilizing only raster graphics, because side-scrolling games made in 3D engines are beholden to all the trappings of a "true" 3D game.
A minor thing i wanna add is although I don't know if Sonic in the Unleashed demake is actually faster, his running animation in that game is absolutely crazy. Bro looks like he's traveling at the speed of light in that game
3 місяці тому+15
0:16 how fast he runs? Well well over light speed. Many statements abilities moving faster than his move called light speed dash.
Sonic fans when they realize that this video is measuring the ingame showing and not sonic's canon speed:
3 місяці тому+1
@marcxworld5708 i know that however in unleashed not only does he move at like 200 mph there are glitches to go even faster and the max he can go is about 9000 spd I can't member how much it was and the light speed dash being 390 spd so in that game technically it's about 9 times faster than light.
On a side note, I wonder how fast is Lilac from the _Freedom Planet_ series? According to the official GalaxyTrail server, her height in _Freedom Planet 2_ is estimated to be around 142 cm tall, and it's unknown if that height is also applicable to her appearance in _Freedom Planet 1._
I don't recall what the height was but in shadows campain in the generations rerelease there is a height chart for sonic and shadow that can be unlocked, I was suprised to learn that they have the exact same height
I think measuring the DS/3DS games you left out might have been interesting, since they play very different from their console counterparts. Colors DS and Generations 3DS in particular are closer to the Rush games in terms of Gameplay, so I wonder how close those games would have been.
It def would have, I just forgot to do them until I was already done with most of the video and figured when I revisit this video I’ll make sure to add them and other games back in
tbh you didn't have to manually measure like almost any of the modern 3d sonic games, the modding community for all of them have documented the exact speed values (in m/s for gen engine games (unleashed, generations, colors, etc.) and decimeters per frame for the adventure games + heros) (kinda a fun little factoid that heros uses a modifed version physics engine of the adventure games, and the player parameters are all the same!)
for ex. sonic in sonic adventure 1 has a soft speed cap for moving forward at 3 decimeters per frame, which then multiplying by .1 (to get meters) then multiplying by 60 (to get a full second) gets you 18 meters per second, or about 64.6 kph (40.26 mph). do keep in mind however that this speed is not a hard limit, and speed up shoes or other potential things can make you faster than this speed for an amount of time. the absolute cap for horizontal speed is 96 m/s (aka 18 decimeters per frame) or 345 kph (214.75 mph)
Fun fact: all of the mainline genesis/SegaCD games, plus sonic mania, have the exact same physics parameters for Sonic's _normal_ top speed (ie, just holding right), acceleration, and jumping. 360 pixels a second, if you're curious
I just found out craziest thing when he says subscribe at 12:20 the subscribe button actually highlights… I was just sitting watching he goes “maybe if you subscribe” and then I see the button highlight. I was SHOCKED
I remember years ago someone (I think Game Theory but it might have been someone else) did this and the number one spot was the same back then. So I find it quite amusing that Unleashed still has this honor even after so much time. 😂
In Sonic Mania, Sonic can run 3 times the speed of sound (mach 3) which is 2301.807 miles per hour, or 3704.4 kilometers per hour, and the light speed dash ability that Sonic has in Frontiers (not sure if it's in any other games but probably) most likely moves at the speed of light due to its name
This was measuring how fast we can see him run. While yes the game says he runs at Mach 3, if we actually measure it out it turns out he runs nowhere near that speed
Love how you explain everything, even though we have to keep it to our imagination that he's actually always super fast (outside of some GameGear games) 😅 Also Unleashed is the goat.
I think it would've been nice to quickly mention the size of the rings per game because there's no way those rings are the same size in Secret Rings compared to 06 But it was a great video, nice to see that I can push my agenda of Unleashed being the best or at least the fastest lol
I do wish in Sonic Origins or something that they used the original idea for Sonic CD of him breaking the sound barrier for a second to travel back in time. That would've been excellent!
In base, yes he can be running 4 times faster then light but here is the fun part. Once him and Blaze in their super forms flew unto a NEBULA in span of 8 seconds. So if you take unleashed speed, just imagine how much times super form multiplies his base.
Pretty crazy how Sonic has only ran at actual mach speeds in one of his games. I guess it kinda makes sense from a game design point of view cause that kind of speed wouldn't work too well in the other games
I loved this video and this is my 2hd time watching and I have to confirm. I do want a part 2 with super, hyper, and any other forms like whisps elementel shields and stuff like that and maybe even rolling and drop dash speeds
I know this is an old-ish video at this point, but I just wanted to share that my guess for 13th place was a toss-up between Adventure 1 and Adventure 2, and then I find out that Adventure 1 and 2 sandwich the actual 13th place game. Goddamn it.
I've been assuming he nerfed his own speed because if he didn't everyone would in for a bad time But the decrease from Unleashed/OG Generations to Lost World is insane 😭
Honestly it's good you kept this to the games because Archie Sonic literally blows all these out of the water adn really doesn't make this kind of question fun. Edit for 11:36, Minor correction on stairs. There actually are modeled stairs, the collision model is a slope. There are games that use flat textured stairs to save space but you showed two examples where it isn't a texture, it is a physical model of stairs with a slope collision model. Great work though!
You're stupid That's the speed the game can show not his canon speed by that definition Archie is the slowest bc it is a bunch of still images Also the video doesn't account Speedruning in which is the maximum speed the game is beaten at The fastest is the advance games
Buddy, this isn't game sonic's actual speed. Sonic has time traveled with his speed in Sonic CD, traveled across a infinite amount of space to his universe in minutes in the storybook games, restored time and space with his speed in Sonic generations, outran multiple black holes in Sonic Shuffle. His speed is nerfed during gameplay because his lore-accurate speed would break the game.
@@datonebigguy I mean, sure but also more accurate Archie sonic is literally way more busted in speed feats. In some of the earlier outings he literally just ran outside of universes and uses interdimensional highways like it's nothing. That's Base form.
@@SuperSonic18969more likely the game will not be playable if he can move faster than the speed of light anyway and besides that the speed of sound is slow compared to light it only takes light a few minutes to get around the Earth
@@JustinJulian-00 I said it wouldn’t be playable too? Also to further your point, we wouldn’t even see gameplay anyway since light wouldn’t reach our eyes😭🙏
Crud I forgot Sonic Dream Team
ALSO a lot of people have talked about how Sonic outruns a black hole in Sonic Colors. Looking at his IN GAME SPEED he is slower than the black hole and should’ve been sucked up by it. I’ll make a video on it eventually (also he does get sucked up by it in the end so I mean I’m still right. Definitely. Totally)
But that's a mobile game, which you already said you weren't covering.
First, Also it's okay man, I think most would also forget about that IOS only game...
idk if you forgot Sonic Mania, which spot in the video was it?
24th place
@@Entertainmentchaos24 24th place, at 7:16
Technically, Sonic's max speed is actually way higher in Unleashed, Colors, Gens, Forces, and Frontiers, as Sonic's speed can actually be multiplied monumentally by simply doing the Quickstep. He moves to the left or right in near an instant WITHOUT losing any forward momentum, meaning that in that moment, he's moving diagonally at a SUBSTANTIALLY higher speed all together. Likely exceeding the speed of sound
So every time he quick steps, there could potentially be a sonic boom each time?
@@FunFun-zq6pj there's a sonic boom effect every time he uses the boost, and if in theory every time he runs even in the classics it's just that for gameplay reasons he's slowed down a lot
There is also M speed and D speed, while they are technically glitches, Sonic’s speed is insane, and you can potentially glitch out the map.
@@XavielArt Yeah but I wouldn't consider those because they're not intentional. Unlike the quickstep which is designed explicitly to not alter your forward momentum.
@@FTN_Ale There's also Gnoggin's point in his video debunking Game Theory's old on, that Sonic is probably going slower than he's capable of intentionally to minimize any destruction that his speed might bring. He calculated that a boosting Sonic in Unleashed with the quickstep is just below the sound barrier, (although the methods were very different), and theorized that he's probably intentionally keeping himself below the threshold.
Bro has the math skills to be an engineer but instead he's calculating Sonic's speed in every game
And honestly this is the best form of entertainment for me so thank you
nu uh, sonics perception speed is so high, he sees gun bullets slow in sa2
Not really this is just 7th-8th grade math really
@NoahRodriguez-rq8em shhhhh let me get my likes
@ Alr I guess😒
@@NoahRodriguez-rq8emYou must be enrolling in Asian classes fr
i find it funny how people complained about frontiers being slow when in actuality it has the second highest top speed and highest speed code wise
he FEELS slow , there are more things to making something feel fast than just making him fast
If you move him to a insanely big area and look at it from like high up he look real slow. Not what is happening of ofcourse but the feel is equally as important as the speed itself
Yeah,honestly just modify the camera with the settings or a mod and he'll feel faster
@@radudumitru3306probably because it's open world so the world is very big, people are used to sonic in small environments but now he's in an open space. It's like when you feel fast running through your hallway, but outside you are really slow
Not code wise, display estimation wise. The way speed is handled in 3D game engines is not a direct parallel to how it appears when doing estimations like this, as there's a lot of margin for error. Ask anyone who's modded Sonic Generations and Unleashed, the Modern Sonic player in Generations actually moves faster in-engine than Unleashed.
Tails' flying height! which game has he flown the highest? Has he reached the highest of heavens? I. MUST. KNOW.
I will look into it for you my friend!
someone who actually understands apostrophes! not many people get that it's "Tails' " and not "Tails's"
@@LetThereBeLight-26I talked like that when I was 7 lmao
The fact that sonic is going at less than 300 mph in the games makes me extremely curious on what a game would look like at sonics true speed (like at the speed of sound)
Classic sonic has been going well over the speed of sound. Cd sonic is moving faster than light to time-travel LOL. Modern sonic is around hundreds of thousands of times faster than light in cannon.
@@Zero432ZX Modern Sonic has immeasurable speed in just base form.
Overpowered 2.0 mod for Sonic Generations but like x10
@@Zero432ZX dw bud ik sonic is way faster than the speed of sound, i just said *like* the speed of sound as an example of his speed
If a game were to depict sonic moving at immesurable speed, we would just be seeing a black screen each time we accelerate.
I think sonic is the 13th fastest
Nah, i think Sonic is faster, although Sonic is pretty close
Sonic is faster
Nah bro Sonic is way faster
Nah bro Sonic is way faster then Sonic
@@Blue_JelloBoioh, that’s cuz you haven’t seen Sonic.
Power scalers holding back from saying sonic runs at irrelevant speeds in sonic generations
He does. Why would the creators let the player run at sonic's lore-accurate speed? It wouldn't be playable 😭
@@datonebigguy bro we'd be bumping into things left and right and making time portals and going to the marvel universe by accident or smth
@@FrankyOutLoud FRR BROOO It'd be cool if accidentally went into stealth's universe
Immeasurable not irreverent, there is a difference
Even as early as Sonic CD he was stated to "pass the time barrier"
Small addition to your stairs explanation. Texturing is one way of doing it, another way is to use 2 seperate meshes. One for the stairs which has no collisions and the other being the slope mesh that is invisible and has the collisions.
Both these methods are still used in modern game dev, we can use stuff like IKs to hide the fact that we are using slopes.
Funny that Sonic is protrayed to be incredibly fast but 225mph is the best speed, but consdering this is Sonic, the levels are probably from his perspective, so he would be going so much faster, and time just feels slower to him when he's running that fast (mainly in the boost games at least)
225 mph is insanely fast what are you on about
His speed in the lore would be unplayable lmao
Bro you've probably never even seen anything go 225 mph. definitely not on land.
@@BrettKolb-o9n He's only slowed for gameplay. Canonically he's faster than the flow of time itsself
@@mr.shplorb662 Not when we're talking about Sonic
Robotnik casually just running 46mph
He's surprisingly athletic and/or aerodynamic.
This video's heavily underrated. Canonically speaking not gameplay wise, Sonic would be moving quadruplets these speeds
it's unplayable if we play at his canon top speed
True
@@BlueTakBlur They could easily fake his true top speed by making everything else ever so slightly slower when moving fast
@@sonicultimateyt1090 His top speed is faster than time
@@arcticfluffyfoxy Technically he would be going so fast that time moves backwards in infinite progression at top speed, so he'd still break the game
13:16 Another great location to test top speed in Shadow is GUN Fortress. Run along either the left or right walls far away from enemies and obstacles.
It's through the first garage about 10 seconds into the level. You reach top speed very fast and will maintain it for about 5-6 whole seconds. ( Which is an absurdly long amount of time in Shadow, given how platform heavy it is. Makes speedrunning GUN fortress hella fun. )
16:50 “I get stronger every second!”
For the people who think this is his actual speed, no, he's just the speed of the gameplay. Sonic has time traveled with his speed in Sonic CD, traveled across a infinite amount of space to his universe in minutes in the storybook games, restored time and space with his speed in Sonic generations, outran multiple black holes in Sonic Shuffle. His speed is nerfed during gameplay because his lore-accurate speed would break the game.
Powerscaling be like:
Also I swear this video is like the nicest way of saying that Sonic is Subsonic Fodder lol
@konoheisenbergda This video isn't even about Sonic's canonical speed. Like I said, his Canon speed would break the game. Not even the mods that increase the speed of the gameplay is 1% of his speed 😭
@@konoheisenbergda Saying Sonic is subsonic fodder based off of the gameplay is like saying the characters in Sparking zero are subsonic fodder because we know many DBS characters are FTL+ but like I said, canon speeds would break the game. If this isn't a good example, I don't know what is.
@@konoheisenbergda This is common sense lol
@@datonebigguy *facepalms with so much energy the planet explodes* it’s a joke 🍌
you never mentioned CD prototype Sonic... you will suffer for your sins... anyways, all jokes aside, great video!
Crud, you should just cancel me now
@@llennoxytI would, but I’m too lazy to open Twitter(ITS NOT CALLED X ELON) to cancel you.
@@dustin202Stop deadnaming faceless multinational corporations! It's insensitive!
That peelout bug wasn’t intentional it was a bug
@@ygbailey22 it exists though so i count it 🙃
Lost World Sonic going only 14 MPH is hilarious to me.
My guess was it was gonna be either Adventure game as the 13th fastest Sonic, and the fact that they were 14th and 12th respectively has me both so tight yet so impressed with myself
I refuse to believe this vid only has 300 views, underrated
Technically speaking, Sonic in CD actually runs over 88mph. This is caused by the time posts, meaning that CD could potentially have the fastest sonic ever.
Great Scott!
The game where Sonic is the 13th fastest? Sonic Forces: Speed Battle
Sonic is actually around the 90th fastest (one of the slowest) characters in the game.
Nice.
he said no mobile games
...are there other versions of Sonic in those 90?
@@spindash64 yeah, there are a bunch of other reskin, but aside of Excalibur Sonic, other sonic skins are pretty meh to downright broken.
I'm happy Sonic 2 is that high on the list.
The 13th fastest sonic is sonic moving into our hearts
had a feeling Heroes might be the fastest non-boost game
I'm pretty sure shadow the hedgehog is faster
Thank you so much for measuring the fact classic sonic has a different height then modern. In showcases of sonic in comparison to eggman (modern) it’s clearly shown that its modern who is 3’3- but in multiple videos people say its classics too and skip over it.
That feeling when the game which many people criticize for being too slow has the fastest Sonic
3:23 damn classic sonic ain't a short king, bro is the short LORD😭
When you did Unleashed did you take into account the first stretch of Chun Nan and the Egg Beetle fight? In those two instances the speed is higher than anywhere else in the game and the devs claimed that it was allegedly over 300mph to scale. Could have just been marketing though, idk 🤷
I did not, I should’ve looked into it more! I watched some gameplay and also just had sonic boost forward with max speed and assumed it was the fastest 🤷♂️
@@llennoxyt well it was a great video and I think it's good to get a measure of how he travels for the majority of the game moreso than just a couple odd moments anyway but I thought you might find that neat!
If you ever do a video showing how fast all of the vehicles go in Shadow the Hedgehog that would be pretty funny, they are mostly probably like 15mph 😅
Once again, awesome vid!
Ooo maybe I will since I just got the game for my birthday… thanks!!!
@@llennoxytno way you put his Mach speed part slower then Mach speed in 06 he in those moments would be 767 mph
Sonic in generation make sonic booms when he boost putting him faster then sound
In unleashed there is a speed meter this has a speed for the light speed dash and sonic was clocked moving 4 times faster then the light speed dash
Now in lore sonic has irrelevant speed in generation he restarted time with just his speed
Forces he has a infinite speed feat because he ran out of a infinite sized void
I would argue the final section of Dragon Road immediately after the Boss in the final stretches Sonic is moving exponentially faster in his animation. Running On Water is another feat itself he can sink without the boost but with it moving in such a way that defy physics like an aircraft with aerodynamics.
Honestly 225 makes so much sense for Sonic's day to day max speed. Like he tops out at light speed but i feel like 99% that top speed feels perfect for a personal mental cap
I'm more convinced than ever in my tinfoil hat conspiracy theory that Sonic Lost world was supposed to originally be a mario game.
Would have been way better than Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Games. Not saying M&S is a bad franchise but they could do so much more with a Mario x Sonic crossover series, and now that Mario & Sonic 2024 has been cancelled because the Olympic corporate overlords wanted to focus on NFTs 2 years after the respective economic bubble burst, we have a non-zero chance of actually getting that game in the future.
You aint too far off. At that time period, the bigwigs were wanting Sonic to be more Mario-esque to boost his popularity, reducing the friend number, lowering his speed, simple stories, etc etc
@@switchstar098 the biggest red flag to me is the fact that it has a fucking RUN BUTTON. Plenty of mario games have that. What kind of sonic game has a fucking run button?
@JEK_VaNNNNN In a Sonic game, every button is the run button. Even the d-button.
You weren't kidding about this video being light on math! You trimmed a lot of the fat with your explanations and I really enjoyed how the final result of that turned out c:
0:41 Didn't expect you to include these anyway, but no, they don't "follow a very similar structure of the standard definition or high-definition of their respective games." Luckily, Colors on DS and Generations on 3DS are closer to the Rush games than their console counterparts, so you already have those covered.
2:29 Sonic forces crying in the back
We don't talk about forces.
@@choonweichan4600I do :>
4:11 marques brownlee was watching this
According to the coding unleashed is the second slowest boost game
(Colors is the slowest)
And forces is the second fastest after frontiers
I absolutely loved your video, and I'm subscribing to this amazing channel from now on. However, there's one point I don't quite agree with, or rather, something that might have been overlooked. Sonic in Generations is limited in many stages, making him considerably slower than he truly is. This is because many levels are ports from previous games, and they wouldn't be playable at Sonic's real speed. This is particularly evident in the Unleashed Project, where Generations Sonic, at top speed, actually surpasses Unleashed Sonic, reaching up to 250.34 mph in open areas like Savannah Citadel, Cool Edge, and Skyscraper Scamper. In these areas, he shows his true speed because, unlike Generations levels, the ones in Unleashed are designed for such high speeds. Not to mention that the Generations movement is superior, featuring moves like the Walkjump, skid, stomp, and Light Speed Dash. Plus, we completely overlook Super Sonic in Generations, who becomes even faster. Aside from that, great video, my friend! Keep up the awesome work! 👌🏻🔥🔥
i'm waiting for 2033 to come around so i can go back to this video and prove u wrong
I don't think the height difference should have been factored in, official bios and height charts state both versions of Sonic as being the same height. The gap only exists to hide the proportional difference between the two styles and to help differentiate them, but it's otherwise non-diegetic. This would also solve Sonic Pocket Adventure where it's pretty obvious that they changed to the Adventure designs last minute. They forgot to change Eggman's outfit in the Egg-Mobile and Tails's eyes in his sprites for piloting the Tornado.
I'm also confused about the demake exclusions. I get excluding Lost World because of how similar the 3DS version was to the Wii U version, but Unleashed SD was very unique with how it handled Sonic's movement and Colors DS was a Rush game that I'm pretty sure deviated a lot more from Colors than Pocket Adventure did from Sonic 2
Honestly I just didn’t want to do them because if already spent hours on everything else. Also since the demakes share a story I figured it doesn’t make “sense” for sonic to be running slower during the events of the game just because I measured a different version of a game
Those charts are 30 years old. They have been objectively retconned by now because we have SEEN, WITH COMPARISON, how tall Sonic used to be versus how tall he is now.
It isn't just an art style. It hasn't been for 13 years. Classic Sonic is younger Sonic. Period
@@SSL_2004 I literally can't find any evidence that classic Sonic's age or height was retconned outside of Sonic's age in general going from a semi-vague 15-16 to specifically 15 in the early 2000s.
If they made everyone's height lore accurate, classic Sonic and Tails would have *massive* heads compared to their modern counterparts unless they used Saturn era Uekawa art as the basis for the models, so they have to be shorter visually even if they aren't shorter in lore. This of course also extended to Eggman, where the argument of him being shorter because he's younger flat out doesn't work because he's old enough to be Maria's cousin, which realistically puts him in his late 30s as a best case scenario
@@PercyPanleo Can't we go off of whatever games had both of them in a crossover? I'm largely unfamiliar with Sonic as a whole but I know it happened in one of the games.
@@titan1umtitan if you're referring to character bios, no, unfortunately not. The character bios in Generations are very basic and IIRC use the same text between the classic and modern versions of characters. Forces meanwhile just doesn't have any character bios.
Now when the Unskippable guys asked how Sonic got to Eggman's lair in Unleashed and one of them said "He ran." it actually makes sense!
I just wanna say that the main reason old games did not have stairs with individually modeled steps was not necessarily because of the difficulty of animating it, it was moreso done because it saves on a LOT of polygons to just make it a sloped plane for both the main mesh and collision model. It was done for optimization more than animation.
I one hundred percent agree
I had a feeling that Unleashed and Generations would be at the top.
But Frontiers being that high up surprised me!
Btw, awesome channel you've got here, I'm definitely gonna subscribe 👍
True
In fact, that is something that can be seen in Sonic Generations, which is limited by the level design. In Unleashed Project, you can see the true speed of that Sonic, which is exaggerated, being in theory the fastest Sonic.
personally,
I
Prefer the air
PERSONA
DISTURBING THE PEEEEACE
Look into my eyeeesss @@guidemissile1494
I'm pretty sure Generations is faster than Unleashed when it comes to raw numbers.
In fact, this is something evident in Sonic Generations, where the level design imposes limitations. In the Unleashed Project, you can witness Sonic's true speed, which is quite exaggerated, making him theoretically the fastest Sonic.
That’s what I like about a UA-camr sometimes they’ll be honest and say that they might not have all the information instead of saying oh I know this
Interesting thing to note about Sonic 1, in the original releases Sonic’s run speed had a cap on it and to go any faster you had to roll. This cap was removed in the 2013 remaster for IOS and various future releases.
Interesting addition. I've only played Frontiers, but I know for certain a drop dash is faster than his normal maxed speed, by a LOT as well, similar to this
Fun fact: Sonic once stated that he only gets faster and stronger every second, which we can see here. Though it changes a lot, we can see his modern, older version is far faster than his younger version in most instances. That being said, we can assume that the more games that are released, Sonic will only speed up more and more, so maybe he actually will be faster than the speed of sound one day
I would say this video doesn't line up with that logic, really.
Sonic is canonically faster than sound, light, and the concept of time
He's already faster than time in lore. The only reason he's so slow here is for gameplay reasons. While using math to calculate speed is fun, if anybody tries to use it to calculate CANON speed it's just wrong
He’s been faster than light since CD😭
@@zeno743Canonically, that's a nonsense statement. I think canon is just throwing cool-sounding things out there.
Alternatively, I want to know how Sonic T. Hedgehog handles blue-shifting of light as he approaches c.
...
Heh-heh. BLUE shift.
But seriously, the apparent wavelength of light in front of you gets shorter as you go faster. It'll rapidly shift into ultraviolet and he'll be blind well before it shifts into high-energy gamma rays and kills him.
(We are, obviously, ignoring atmospheric drag and the consequent friction heating.)
I knew from the start Unleashed Sonic is the top dog in the game but it was still interesting to see other measurements.
I for sure did not expect 06 Sonic to be even remotely fast.
I think it just shows that all that matters is good controls, feel, level design and the pace make all the difference.
video? thoroughly UNSATISFACTORY. you will be hearing from my lawyers (they will be requesting proof of the numbers in this video)
This is very old school Game Theory, well done
In the games Sonic is obviously power scaled a bit on his speed so you (the player) could actually control the guy and see whats up ahead. I think SEGA did a great job of giving us this sense of speed(Most of the time) . Like, you're actually going THIS fast.
But in most media he's said to be as fast as the speed of sound.
One thing to note is that the methodology employed to measure speed in 3D games is probably a bit flawed. Measuring distance by the pixel count of 3D graphics is unreliable, because 3D graphics aren't drawn like 2D graphics. The best representation of how fast something is moving in a 3D engine is the delta of units per frame it moves in the engine. In 3D game engines, objects don't move relative to screen space (pixels), but rather relative to each other in virtual space. It's more like how you'd consider speed in the real world than how you would in 2D raster graphics. Many modern engines use meters as their default unit of measurement for scale, but some older and proprietary engines have their own units (For example, the Source engine used by Half Life and TF2 uses a unit called a "hammer unit"). Therefore, the most direct and accurate way to find the speed of something in a 3D game engine is to find the delta of how many engine units per frame it moves, and then find out the ratio of engine units to meters. That would give you meters per frame, multiplied by the framerate the game runs at, to give you meters per second. Using delta can be difficult, and for a lot of these games this information is pretty hard to find without serious modding knowledge, but it will give you the most accurate answer to the character's speed. One factoid I picked up over the years is that Modern Sonic in Generations actually moves faster than Sonic in Unleashed, it's just that Unleashed's visual design makes it _appear_ that you're going faster.
As for 2D, the delta of pixels per frame is fine, as that's how most 2D games calculate distance on the engine level anyway. Just make sure the game is actually 2D, utilizing only raster graphics, because side-scrolling games made in 3D engines are beholden to all the trappings of a "true" 3D game.
The difference between in game an lore is so incredibly massive here lmao
I think sonic is much faster than we see due to us needing to actually see what's going on.
Imagine that the first ever sonic game is faster than a game made in the 2010s
A minor thing i wanna add is although I don't know if Sonic in the Unleashed demake is actually faster, his running animation in that game is absolutely crazy. Bro looks like he's traveling at the speed of light in that game
0:16 how fast he runs? Well well over light speed. Many statements abilities moving faster than his move called light speed dash.
But we never see him actually travel at those speeds in game 🙊
@@llennoxyt yeah because you would rage quit from dying in a black hole every 0.1 or less seconds
Sonic fans when they realize that this video is measuring the ingame showing and not sonic's canon speed:
@marcxworld5708 i know that however in unleashed not only does he move at like 200 mph there are glitches to go even faster and the max he can go is about 9000 spd I can't member how much it was and the light speed dash being 390 spd so in that game technically it's about 9 times faster than light.
How does he see while moving that fast?
Thanks for doing the math on this.
On a side note, I wonder how fast is Lilac from the _Freedom Planet_ series?
According to the official GalaxyTrail server, her height in _Freedom Planet 2_ is estimated to be around 142 cm tall, and it's unknown if that height is also applicable to her appearance in _Freedom Planet 1._
Sonic Advance 2's speed is why its one of my favorite sonic games of all time
You should have shown more footages on how you made the maths, because it's pretty hard to believe this list
Well I thought I showed the characters running at that speed, but in hindsight I should’ve shown more of the math
Damn fine video. A+
So this is why I was supposed to pay attention in math class?
This video is a genius to solve how fast sonic is from many games.
I don't recall what the height was but in shadows campain in the generations rerelease there is a height chart for sonic and shadow that can be unlocked, I was suprised to learn that they have the exact same height
Now do it with Super Sonics
👀
I think measuring the DS/3DS games you left out might have been interesting, since they play very different from their console counterparts. Colors DS and Generations 3DS in particular are closer to the Rush games in terms of Gameplay, so I wonder how close those games would have been.
It def would have, I just forgot to do them until I was already done with most of the video and figured when I revisit this video I’ll make sure to add them and other games back in
@@llennoxyt That's fair, and it's still a cool video! Well done, and very well explained!
tbh you didn't have to manually measure like almost any of the modern 3d sonic games, the modding community for all of them have documented the exact speed values (in m/s for gen engine games (unleashed, generations, colors, etc.) and decimeters per frame for the adventure games + heros) (kinda a fun little factoid that heros uses a modifed version physics engine of the adventure games, and the player parameters are all the same!)
for ex. sonic in sonic adventure 1 has a soft speed cap for moving forward at 3 decimeters per frame, which then multiplying by .1 (to get meters) then multiplying by 60 (to get a full second) gets you 18 meters per second, or about 64.6 kph (40.26 mph). do keep in mind however that this speed is not a hard limit, and speed up shoes or other potential things can make you faster than this speed for an amount of time. the absolute cap for horizontal speed is 96 m/s (aka 18 decimeters per frame) or 345 kph (214.75 mph)
although I don't think there is any way to reach the hard horizontal speed cap in base game without cheating
Do you know where I can see the rest of these speed values for other games?
is there a list of all these values somewhere
Fun fact: all of the mainline genesis/SegaCD games, plus sonic mania, have the exact same physics parameters for Sonic's _normal_ top speed (ie, just holding right), acceleration, and jumping. 360 pixels a second, if you're curious
I just found out craziest thing when he says subscribe at 12:20 the subscribe button actually highlights… I was just sitting watching he goes “maybe if you subscribe” and then I see the button highlight. I was SHOCKED
I know I commented twice😭
I remember years ago someone (I think Game Theory but it might have been someone else) did this and the number one spot was the same back then.
So I find it quite amusing that Unleashed still has this honor even after so much time. 😂
Its odd how accurate these are to how fast sonic feels is sinsane in each game... and shows how much effort sega put into their game immersion.
My goat unleashed never misses
Remember when Sonic said it’s sonicing time so Sonic proceeded to Sonic all over the place…good times
Real
Like i wasn't surprised by Unleashed being the fastest and he does feel noticeably faster than Generations Sonic
In Sonic Mania, Sonic can run 3 times the speed of sound (mach 3) which is 2301.807 miles per hour, or 3704.4 kilometers per hour, and the light speed dash ability that Sonic has in Frontiers (not sure if it's in any other games but probably) most likely moves at the speed of light due to its name
This was measuring how fast we can see him run. While yes the game says he runs at Mach 3, if we actually measure it out it turns out he runs nowhere near that speed
It's still insane to me that we really haven't caught up to Unleashed's speed all these years later lol
Where's my PC port, Sega >:(
Love how you explain everything, even though we have to keep it to our imagination that he's actually always super fast (outside of some GameGear games) 😅
Also Unleashed is the goat.
I think it would've been nice to quickly mention the size of the rings per game because there's no way those rings are the same size in Secret Rings compared to 06
But it was a great video, nice to see that I can push my agenda of Unleashed being the best or at least the fastest lol
The man justified learning Pythagoras theorem with a Sonic video...
He runs at least fast, yes
as for fastest *feeling* Sonic, that's probably an entirely different list-
I do wish in Sonic Origins or something that they used the original idea for Sonic CD of him breaking the sound barrier for a second to travel back in time. That would've been excellent!
In base, yes he can be running 4 times faster then light but here is the fun part. Once him and Blaze in their super forms flew unto a NEBULA in span of 8 seconds. So if you take unleashed speed, just imagine how much times super form multiplies his base.
I know I commented twice😭
Anyone insisting that Classic Sonic is also 15 years old and 3'3" is just willfully ignorant.
Technically he is, but they retconned that out of existence a long time ago.
@@Kelps.mp4 So he was. But he no longer is.
Sonic will be perpetually 15 no matter how many birthdays he has
Yea the lore is too confusing. They should just leave his age ambiguous, just makes him even more mysterious.
@@ThisHandleIsVeryBoring It's better to just give the character age brackets.
Pretty crazy how Sonic has only ran at actual mach speeds in one of his games. I guess it kinda makes sense from a game design point of view cause that kind of speed wouldn't work too well in the other games
In 06 you can use the ender Pearl gem to travel at crazy speeds and there's the speed glitches you can do on loops
Take a shot every time this guy says "Miles Prower"
My liver’s losing function just thinking about it😂😂
I loved this video and this is my 2hd time watching and I have to confirm. I do want a part 2 with super, hyper, and any other forms like whisps elementel shields and stuff like that and maybe even rolling and drop dash speeds
I have been wondering about the actual in-game speed of sonic for like 6 years now
i knew that sonics ingame speed isnt the same as his canon speed but honestly i expected him to barely reach 50mph ingame lol
Yeah in most of them he barely does 😅
Bro is gonna break the light barrier when multiplied
16:52 this shows why the size of your data set is important in statistics
Exactlyyyyy
I know this is an old-ish video at this point, but I just wanted to share that my guess for 13th place was a toss-up between Adventure 1 and Adventure 2, and then I find out that Adventure 1 and 2 sandwich the actual 13th place game. Goddamn it.
Should have counted the glitches in fronteirs. Speedrunners in that game definitely shatter the speed of sound
I've been assuming he nerfed his own speed because if he didn't everyone would in for a bad time
But the decrease from Unleashed/OG Generations to Lost World is insane 😭
fun fact: In SA2, Mechless Eggman is faster than Sonic
Looks like I gotta do fastest eggman next 🤷♂️
Honestly it's good you kept this to the games because Archie Sonic literally blows all these out of the water adn really doesn't make this kind of question fun.
Edit for 11:36, Minor correction on stairs.
There actually are modeled stairs, the collision model is a slope. There are games that use flat textured stairs to save space but you showed two examples where it isn't a texture, it is a physical model of stairs with a slope collision model. Great work though!
You're stupid
That's the speed the game can show not his canon speed by that definition Archie is the slowest bc it is a bunch of still images
Also the video doesn't account Speedruning in which is the maximum speed the game is beaten at
The fastest is the advance games
Buddy, this isn't game sonic's actual speed. Sonic has time traveled with his speed in Sonic CD, traveled across a infinite amount of space to his universe in minutes in the storybook games, restored time and space with his speed in Sonic generations, outran multiple black holes in Sonic Shuffle. His speed is nerfed during gameplay because his lore-accurate speed would break the game.
@@datonebigguy I mean, sure but also more accurate Archie sonic is literally way more busted in speed feats. In some of the earlier outings he literally just ran outside of universes and uses interdimensional highways like it's nothing. That's Base form.
@@DrDoggoat restorating universe with speed is much more powerful when accounting to the size of the universe
Does Sonic really move 100 meters per second in Unleashed? That sounds kind of crazy
Damn, now I want a Sonic game where he actually lives up to his name (the speed of sound is 767.27mph)
Hes had immeasurable speed since 2011, also, that would NOT be playable even with Sonic going at the speed of sound😭
@@SuperSonic18969more likely the game will not be playable if he can move faster than the speed of light anyway and besides that the speed of sound is slow compared to light it only takes light a few minutes to get around the Earth
@@JustinJulian-00 I said it wouldn’t be playable too? Also to further your point, we wouldn’t even see gameplay anyway since light wouldn’t reach our eyes😭🙏
good video
a super sonic video would definitely shift the placements of each game considering that super sonic goes quicker in some games
For me I think sonic advanced 2 has to be high because of rings equal speed plus speed running in there glitches makes him faster than most sonics