Hi Mel, in the same article by A.J. Deus, it is also stated that the Quraish tribe is none other than the Jewish Quraiza, the Jewish Levite priesthood. Your claim is consistent with it.
12:00 Hey Mel, I think that this passage is referring to the Maccabean Revolt. The romans obviously were the ones "who believed not" and "who kept you away from the sacred Mosque (Temple Mount)...". The victory that is presented in this passage is probably the victiorious revolt. Another thing which I find extremely interesting is that the location, the valley in which this victory happened, here is named "Makkah". This leads me to believe that Makkah is just another name for the Kidron Valley and/or the area around it? This would also explain the name "Ha Makkabi", which is usually translated as something to do with a Hammer. Now one can speculate if it was The Maccabean that gave the name to the valley, or if it was the valley that gave its name to the Man who "freed" it from the romans.
I think it's actually talking about Bisanteenes (Romans, even they called themselves a Romans) and calling the jews to try again to oweratake Jerusalem from them.(First time they failed when they fought with Persia against them) But yes, could be aluding to Macabean revolt like example of bravery, justice and maybe proof that overtaking Jerusalem is possible)
Take this simple writing: فارس Modern Arabic: "Faarsh", or "Faarish". Referring to Persia, Persians, also horseman (think about the famous Persian cavalier). But without dots, you can pronounce it: "Quraish", as one of alternatives word. Coincident? The Arabic word "Farsh", in the old days, was used to call people from ethnic groups such as Farsh, Tajik, Kurs, Tat, and Hazarah.
@@ibradira8611First of all فارس means Fars, not Farsh. Second, you can not pronounce this as Quraish even without dots, because there is literally an Alif after the F. It could be pronounced Qars, Qaris or Qarus at most.
Excellent! The Quraish certainly did not inhabit Mecca, as Mecca did not exist in the 7th century. Looking for them n and around Jerusalem or Mesopotamia is the proper scholarly approach.
@@zphre7548 Modern scientific historical research (and also common sense) proves that the city of Mecca could not have existed as a large commercial caravan city in the 7th century. Main reasons for this fact are: 1) Mecca is not an oasis, so there is no surface water (only a well, known as zamzam which is clearly unsufficient and inappropriate for watering many caravan camels) 2) Mecca is not shown on any map or any document at that time or even previously 3) Mecca is located down of Hidjaz plateau and could therefore not be located on the caravan route which is located more than 1000 m above on the plateau (eg the city of Taeef is located at an altitude of ca 2000 m while Mecca is at 300 m) 4) there were no archeological remains or artefacts (coins, potteries, ruins, bones etc) discovered in Mecca dating from before circa year 700 It is impossible that a large city would leave no trace at all of its past 5) no agriculture whatsoever is possible in this wild rocky desert location, how could a large city survive in such hostile environment ?
@@zphre7548 I guess you've stopped by randomly in here... if you've been following this channel you already knew the funny point is to believe "Mecca did exist in the place it does today, in the 7th century"... 😂😂😂😂 Please, I'm cracking myself up 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
Islam says "Qureysh" derives from the Arabic word for _shark_ ,an euphimistic referrence to the strength of the patriarch from whom the Prophet's clan was descended; I'd always wondered why would desert people use for a sobriquet the name of a sea monster? This podcast is the first reasonable approach I've heard making sense of the conundrum.
Quraish as people/tribe are with other words the people of the Quraish/temple = those people grown up in Jewish teachings of Tanakh and including Talmud/Zohar/Kabbala... Do I understand correct?
Originally the kaaba was in Jerusalem, not in Mecca, and it was jewish. We have to remember that the quran was originally a preaching book of the Nazarenes (called "nasara" (نَصَرَ) in the quran) who were a jewish-christian sect (a "heretical" one for regular byzantine christians since they did not believe in Jesus divinity nor in Trinity). As Jews they practiced pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and their ultimate goal was to go to Salomon's temple. The Holy of Holies was located at the westernmost end of the Temple building and was a cube: 20 cubits by 20 cubits by 20 cubits. The inside was in darkness and contained the Ark of the Covenant. And it was located at the actual location of the Dome of the rock in Jerusalem. So originally the kaaba was in Jerusalem, not in Mecca, and it was jewish. This is also why the first mosques had their qiblas directed to Jerusalem and not to Mecca.
@@osuclassof88 Islam 101 in a nutshell ... The quran is originally (so-called "meccan" surahs) a christian preaching book used by the anti-trinitarian christians called nazarenes, they are called "nasara" (نَصَرَ) in the quran, while the trinitarian (orthodox) christians whom they hated are called "mushrikuns" (مشركون) ie "associators" or "polytheists" because they associate Jesus to God (which is "shirk" شِرْك that opposes to Allah's unicity called "tawheed" تَوْحِيدُ ) Therefore islam might be considered as a heretic christian sect.
Masjid al haram literally refers to the desert or remote unreachable part, whereever. But Jerusalem a trade center with its own richness, and wanting their own center of worship, the new religion created their own sacred place to be desert in a speciific place. Why its referred as place for Abraham is the story where Abraham leaves his clan to the remote land in protest and with god's blessing survived, the Arabs believe they were from the family of Ismael.
Your audio is still not great. It seems you have a noise gate / "(background) noise filter" on it, but the threshold is too high, so the quieter bits get throttled. Whole syllables tend to get lost this way. Many human spoken text videos out there suffer from this, unfortunately.
Shem (Semites) is the ancestor of Eber (Hebrews) who is the ancestor of the Ishmaelites, Israelites and others. The Semitic pagans, the Semitic Jews and the Semitic Samaritans had different locations and styles of worship. But Mt Gerizim was destroyed in 110 BCE and the Jerusalem temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Only the Tomb of the Patriarchs was left standing. Petra was destroyed by earthquakes in 363 CE and 551 CE. This must have caused great anxiety. The construction of the Dome of the Rock in 691 CE must have generated some religious fervor!
Perhaps this helps to explain why many former mosques, ones which have been uncovered by archaeologists, do not point toward Mecca as their direction of prayer (qibla). It is a simple fact that Muslims simply refuse to come to terms with, and there MANY other simple facts that they also refuse to come to terms with. It seems almost futile to talk to them. It is also (often) unpleasant because they think that the solution to being totally undermined by n array of facts is to yell louder (be more polemical).
@@zphre7548 "Religion", yes lots of baseless religious stuff in Islam. Ummayid legends etc. The word Jerusalem does not appear as text in the Quran. And you are saying that God changed his mind for some reason? Mecca was a nothing. It is a construct..
@davidhansen1811 Quran isn't the sole basis of Islam. Ahadith narrations that have been graded to be mutawattir and sahih also make up a core part of our religion.
@@zphre7548 So 'random' traditions, of which there are many (coming from this sect or that Islamic sect) can and do supersede the Quran. Thank you for that. I will take that to the bank.
@davidhansen1811 There is no disagreement between narrations that have been agreed upon. There's a reason why they're called "agreed upon" (mutawattir). Baseless assumptions are not welcome in academia; Google is free.
Was really mecca city not on ground? If i wish to agree with you, how will you convince me through geography and other archaeological proofs? Regards. Asar ahmadzay
Stay tuned, a lot more evidence on this playlist. Take a look at the opening videos for preliminary evidence from Paul Ellis and Odon. I'm going to build on this over the coming weeks.
1 Peshat, 2 Remez, 3 Homiletical, 4 Sod. By which interpretation should we read the Quran? 1 billion use number 1 everyday. If they they understood number 4, the world changes forever.
Masjid Al haram is a place holder, when Moses fled from Masjid Al haram that was the city of Firawn in Egypt he went to the Furthest city that was Muqadasa , which was Madyan In another verse Muhammad is told to face( focus not physical direction ) Masjid Al haram, this is now referring to Mekkah Muhammad was called an Ummi , it dosent mean illiterate, it means from the mother city and umiyoon is those from the mother city
@sasa_sasa_sasa230 No it's not, proof is the verse is talking about banu Israel , and the Persians already prayed 5 times a day before Islam came , there is a letter in the British Museum of a reply by the ruler of Persia at the time Umar captured the territory and in the letter he laments Umar on his actions They basically lied to you and everyone that 5 times a day salaat was prescribed to Muhammad via a flying horse in heaven, just to preserve the Zoroastrian religion
@@thebeesnuts777 that letter as i know is in big question. Second, there's no Muhammad's Heavenly ascent, surah 17 originally spoke about Moses Heavenly ascent, very well known legend to the jews even before Christ. Even Samaritans believe in it.
@sasa_sasa_sasa230 Yes there is no heavenly assent, that's a fabricated story, the Quran seems to talk about Moses As the beginning of Nabiyoon prophet/Messenger and that Nabiyoon prophets and Messengers ended with Muhammad reestablishing the order that was before Moses who had teachers called Anbiyaa whom we refer to as prophets , yaqoob, Abraham, Noah etc they would teach anyone how to connect to the divine source as an individual without the need for intermediaries to whoever wanted to learn Muhammad came and was tasked to reestablish this way , something happened in history after Ishaac , and Yusuf , where the whole world was plunged into darkntheiress and by such an event a community was chosen to receive a revelation and Nabiyoon to reeducate and help the rest of humanity towards reestablishing the order ,I.e no compulsion in religion learn to connect to the divine through education , that's basically the original order
@@sasa_sasa_sasa230 You shouldn't take things literally, this is how the original message gets corrupted both by incompetence and malicious intent If Moses ascended towards heaven , we should take that as figuratively , as his aim was learning and to keep relearning , as do the Angels they are depicted with wings like birds to describe that they are able to ascend to the heavens , both in their cognitive abilities and the afterlife, therefore Moses ascending would be that of his earthly life and his level up when he passed away
And the other Jews in the picture are the Yemeni Jews, the 'Queen of Sheba' faction. Ethiopian Christians include the Book of Enoch in their cannon, so there is something happening in that area too, especially as the sourthern Arabian form of God, Al Rahman, is important in the Quran.
@@IslamicOriginsI did some digging and haven't found any Afroasiatic roots that could explain a f/p-h-r root in Semitic languages. And only Aramaic and Arabic attestations. The earliest are Safaitic, and Nabatean Aramaic - Greek inscriptions. In the inscriptions it is only used as a name. So we can geographically point to a northern origin for the name. In Greek it's written as φερος. A name derived from the Greek φόρος meaning 'tribute' in the nominative singular, seems a possible etymology. I did find Syriac attestations with the meaning of 'to gape/yawn' and 'river'. The latter seems to be the main usage in Arabic. The meaning of 'river' could be a derivation from the Greek φέρω meaning 'to bring/carry' from which φόρος meaning 'tribute' is derived.
Another name Hager is -> Hajar -> Haj + Ar = Arab Pilgramage. Hajar and her son go to Arabia, they are first to make Haj at Mecca ... SIN seems to be built from this word play. Another point, how would the reseidents of Jerusalim feel about a bunch of Cammel(Not Kosher) riders decending into there holy city, any clue if Cammels were allowed inside the walls of the city.
Hagar was from Egypt. She would have spoken Egyptian? Abraham and his family spoke Hebrew, so it's logical to assume that she learnt Hebrew. There is a wide spread understanding that Hagar was a name given to her when she joined Abraham as a hand maid. In Hebrew, the way you would describe a foreigner is HaGer, the foreigner, and there is a Midrash that says this is the origin of her given name. The Hebrew cognate of Haj is Chag. Today this means holiday, applying to any of the Jewish holidays. So, right now you could wish someone Chag Sukkot Semeach. However, it used to just refer to the three annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Som by your logic, her name would have been HaChag, the pilgrimage.
Maybe you will think that I am playing the devil's advocate here but all of what you are explaining leaves more burning questions. For example if the Caliphs are friendly to the Jews and know their relationship with Judaism why didn't the Jews join en masse? Why was it allowed to let itself be bastardized to the point that they don't recognize the most holy place as the main one? Even if you take into account civil wars they should have fought to the bitter end for their most sacred sanctuary. So either your theory is too ambitious or there are more things going on. I think that you should read "Le Coran des Historiens" and the work of Guillaume Dye in general. It's in French so he is sadly not cited enough for anglophone academics but he clearly noted misunderstanding of Syriac literature baked in early muslim one which does give credit to the idea of a huge misunderstanding. Yet changing the narrative that much is still difficult to grasp or to accept.
Who says they didn't join en masse? The suspicion is that they did - as strange and unlikely as that may be. Iraq had millions of Jews, who spoke Arabic. (There are lots of examples of them writing Arabic in their Hebrew script.) Where did they go to? They seem to have disappeared off the map and instead we have Muslims, who claim to be descendents of the Mhmd - which of course could originally have meant a Jewish messiah. What confuses things is that there were Jews in Iraq whose main language was Arabic and not Hebrew. Were these mislabelled as "Arabs" in the 7th and 8th centuries, and assumed to be Muslims before they even converted? There is a lot of gaps that we don't know. We also have the strange practice of people in traditions having Jewish and Arab versions of their names: does not tell us something? Lots to digest and reflect on.
@@IslamicOrigins That's more than food for thought, that's a banquet... Let me continue, wouldn't they use primarily Aramean in Sassanid Mesopotamia? It also brought back to my mind the incantation bowls of Mesopotamia apparently used to repel demons and therefore protect the house. I thought their main language was Hebrew (but I am writing form memory only here)... of course you can't exclude the idea of a specialist scribe, yet those seemed rather common... but if those jews speaking Arabic are so common, how did they relate to their own literature? And following the testimony of Benjamin of Tuleda, the Caliph knew Hebrew (following your reading) how could they let the corruption happen, unless it was already very much present. And if it happened early on, how could they have done such a sloppy job if they knew they were jews and if the quality of the text was so important. Moreover why relying on Christian Syriac literature... About the double version of the name, it's not surprising in Mesopotamia, in Hellenistic times you had local people with Akkadian names who received citizenship in a Greek colony (usually due to royal favours) and with it a Greek name. The Romans usually but the native name as cognomen instead, which is easier to identify. Hopefully we do have akkadian texts with attempts at writing Greek names and can at times identify people with two names. That of course doesn't give you reason but offers parallels with earlier periods. I would really like to see examples. One point where I am really doubting you is when you show your map of Arabia Felix and Arabia Petrea with linguistical borders. We now start to have accounts of Arabian inscriptions from the Jordanian desert and others from the Saudi desert and they start to reveal some details about those people in the centuries before 622... one of the biggest revelation from those discoveries is that the latest presislamic inscriptions seem to be quite monotheistic, even if we can't identify the divinity with certainty. What's certain is that the future decades are likely to reveal new interesting inscriptions allowing us to get more reliable information and I would advise you to pay attention to those developments. To finish with two personal point of interest the bath in an Ommeyyad palace showing nude women are so different to what is supposed to be Islamic art that it could offer another clue... yet at the same time Judaism is not necessarily enthusiastic about figurative art either, even if we have contradictory evidence in the synagogue of Dura Europos in the 3rd century. The second and last point of interest of mine is the earliest papyrus with the islamic era found in Egypt. It uses the coptic word "Lami" to designate the newcomers but the origin of the word is unknown. What I know is that at least one article suggested a link with the Lakhmids but I never took the time to delve into that personally. Apparenlty later coptic/arabic glossaries translate Lami as muslim but of course after a century or two the original connection was already long gone. Lots of things to stones to move and lots of questions yet to answer. Take care and good luck.
If you see coins,in the time of Ibn Malic he allowed jews to have coins with shehada and Menora+ some tools also had it. In early 8th century. As i see, quran was compiled in stages like bunch of lectenaries to a groups of people who someone tried to motivate to go and conquer Jerusalem. You have one group of jews that was ,, good " and accepted to attack Jerusalem with Arabs and one group of ,,bad " ones who refused. ,,good " ones were probably jews in Hijaz(not Meka, more Yatrib and south of Arabia Patrea , or even some of them that lived in Palestine,bad ones are probably in Persia, who suffered bad defeat against Bisanteenes (like alie to Persians in Persian-Bisanteene wars one decade prior) and that wasn't willing to try again to attack Bisanteenes. Also ,, good " jews were probably from Yemen and ,, good" Christians, who also join the effort. How we know that? Well because we have Ethiopian influence on surahs in quran about Arc of Covenant, and influence of Book of Enoch and Jubilees which was part of Deuthoronocanon of Ethiopia ln Bible. So now we have many peacees of puzzle on right place,but we need more investigations to fit all.
@@sasa_sasa_sasa230 I will agree that we need more investigation. I have started reading the first volume of "Le coran des historiens" (only 1000 pages just for the first volume). It's colossal. Just the study of preislamic temples and the use of inscriptions is a different take. But only more than 100 pages in that's barely a dent in the first tome, and there are 3 of them. I also got an interesting idea: if Muhammad is a title, and because the name of the prophet of Islam is absent from early hijra dated inscriptions (until from memory 680 or 690 AD), maybe we could check from the date of appearance of other people named Muhammad. What I mean is that the moment it became a regular first name could offer an interesting chronological clue.
@@GreenTaqwa yes because most people think that saduccees died out in 70 ad, but i think they became judeo christians and allies of believers in the temple reclaim movement...
I don't see the logic about this connection that you are attempting to make. You didn't refer to the "tabernacle" by its proper Hebrew name, which is the mishkan. I guess this doesn't fit with your narrative. BTW, Hebrew for just a tent is ohel and again it doesn't fit with your narrative. You keep referring to Ugaritic and Akkadian. Ugaritic is simply an old form of western Semitic, similar to biblical Hebrew but older, from before the Bronze Age collapse. Akkadian had been a common language in mesopotamia but has long since been replaced by Aramaic. Aramaic was the administrative language of the Persian empire and its successors. As such it was widely used throughout the region and influenced other languages, such as early Arabic and the Arabic script. So, by the time of Mohammed neither Ugaritic or Akkadian were in use and hadn't been for several hundred or over a thousand years.
Yes words (even low frequency words) seem to sometimes survive huge time gaps. I'm surprised myself that low frequency words seem to have survived this long. But I and mostly others found many of these type of words. Where there isn't any attestation for more than a thousand years, and pop back up in other Semitic languages with an identical meaning. How these time gaps are bridged is somewhat of a mistery. Its also possible that the word underwent changes, but ended up the same. Take for instance 'night' in Spanish and Russian. That is 'noche' and 'ночь' (noch'); both derive from the same root - just like night -, and just ended up sounding nearly identical with a shwa ending in Spanish and a glottel stop in Russian. You also find words like the Hittite word for water being 'watar', pretty much the same as English. While the neighboring Indo-European languages have totally different words like the Greek 'νερό' (nero), the Persian 'اب' (aab), and the Armenian 'ջուր' (jur). Greek also has 'ύδωρ' (ýdor) which is from the same root as both the Hittite and English, and from which we get the prefix 'hydro-'.
@@IslamicOrigins by the time of Mohamed the form of West Semitic called Ugaritic hadn't been used for over a thousand years. The forms of the language that preceded it were Hebrew, Phoenician, Edomite etc. Which of these languages preserved this obscure usage and where is it attested? It's certainly not in Hebrew. Similarly with Akkadian. It stopped being used centuries before Mohamed. It could be argued that maybe some features from Akkadian were preserved by Chaldean Aramaic but this is very limited. It's a real stretch to think that something so obscure was preserved in a language like Aramaic, that was spoken from modern India to modern Turkey, without it being widely attested. The whole proposition is a flight of fancy. The real origin is well understood, being from Koresh.
@@stubronstein9932 well i am not sure... For example Targum Johanatan for Rebekah nurse use word Mekhenet, which is Acadian word as i know. Targum Johanatan is official Jewish targum, @IslamicOrigins @TheLinguist601
@@stubronstein9932 @stubronstein9932 well i am not sure... For example Targum Johanatan for Rebekah nurse use word Mekhenet, which is Acadian word as i know. Targum Johanatan is official Jewish targum, @IslamicOrigins @TheLinguist601
Dan Gibson believes Koraysh is derived from a nickname for the goddess AL 'UZZA ... the 'Venus' of Arabia. The nickname is KORÉ (Greek for 'maiden'). The tribe of Mohammed was said to worship KORÉ (the Maiden - Venus - Al 'UZZA). They were the 'TRIBE OF KORÉ' ... the KORAYSH or QURAYSH.
So, when they say the Quraish people use to worship Hubal they were the one of the 10 clans who made pilgrimage there once a year? I thought those people were from Yemen hence the corner stone, maybe it was too far for them to go to Jerusalem to do the Hajj so they made a copy so those down south to can perform the pagan practice, maybe that was the between Mosque I keep hearing about. C'mon man you must have seen the De Vinci code; it was all about Mary Magdalene been the real story, the Christians lied, hence Islam has her womb with a wax ball and 6 pebble's in it so people can smooch hence the Kaaba has the burka of royalty on it as she was the last of the great rulers of the King bloodline. Sorry I take back the Christian bit about lying I was quoting the Movie!! But interesting why Islam have a woman vagina at the Kaaba fits the movie, I thought it was Selene the Greek goddess of the greatest most powerful of the moon gods, they're a lot of moon gods. The word moon can be traced to the word mōna, an Old English word from medieval times. Mōna shares its origins with the Latin words metri, which means to measure, and mensis, which means month. So, we see that the moon is called the moon because it is used to measure the months. Earth's moon does have a name: In English, it's "the moon." The word moon is Proto-Germanic in origin, deriving from a similar-sounding word that came into use a few thousand years ago in Northern Europe. Now you can see why the moon had so many names and why back then was a goddess to many tribes because of its beauty when it reflected light, like a lamp, the light of God!!. GBU Mel loving your finds, Allah mentions both Shaam and Yemen in Surah al-Ma’idah. Shaam is described as ‘the holy land’ [Qur’an, 5:21], and later on in the same Surah Allah also honors the people of Yemen, listing several of their virtues: Ibn Hawalah (ra) said, ‘The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “The matter will turn out that you will be standing armies, one in Shaam, one in Yemen and one in Iraq”’ Found in Nine Divine Connections Between the Blessed Lands of Shaam and Yemen. The Kaaba is bang center of both places; you can see the roadblock in Israel hence they were attacked they want them gone to takeout Sudia Arabia as they now gone western culture like even though Mecca is closer to them, far as Islam concern the Sudie's are causing mischief in the land of the Muslim people. Any how that off topic, GBU.
@@IslamicOrigins Go ahead, waste away your worthless time on fantasy & heresay. Get prepared for a lot of answering, for your toothless lies, in the Hereafter.
@@mas101107Proverbs 30:4: "Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!" Do you not see this as God's son, referred to in old time, before Jesus was sent to earth??
@@zphre7548 hadith tradition is just made up. Literally made up. Everybody here understands how Hadith "science" works. Its no magic, just made up. Every single hadith written down was written after the Abbasid caliphate, and not one of the writers of Hadith went against the Abbasids. Another Paradox, the hadith graders, grade hadith on how trustworthy certain people in the chain are. But how do they know if they are trustworthy or not? By looking at other traditions and hadiths about how trustworthy they were. But how trustworthy are those traditions and hadiths? They grade them based on how trustworthy the author of that tradition was. But how to they know how trustworthy that guy was? And so on and so on… its a full circle. ⭕️ no logic in it whatsoever. They do not use "outside“ sources from non muslims at the time, and they also not explain pre-abbasid coins. We have tons of coins which go directly against hadith, coins with crosses, menorahs on them, living beings on them like people and what not (100% haram according to sahih hadith), and much more. Hadiths are a joke.
@miguelsureda9762 You are not aware of the study of isnaad and matn? The analysis of the independent chains of transmission? I shouldn't have expected much from people who took channels like this seriously...
This just blows me away! Love you for digging these things up. A link to the sources would make it even helpful for chats with my friends.
I will add some links in the description later when I get around to it.
Mel's service to humanity cannot be underestimated. This research will persuade many would-be terrorists to leave this false cult.
@@IslamicOriginsMell, didn't you make a video about place or tribe Qureish in today Iraq?
@sasa_sasa_sasa230 yes, on my old channel.
There is more to come in this series.
Class as always
I've been feeling for a while now that all the info point in this direction, but there was no final lynchpin to keep it together. This is it, man.
Thanks for excellent research
Thank you so much for sharing the Linguist's research! May God bless both of you! 🙏🙏🙏❤️❤️❤️
Hey brother Mrl where have you been??? So good to hear you again.God bless you & keep up the good work..Ameeeeeeen.
Hi Mel, in the same article by A.J. Deus, it is also stated that the Quraish tribe is none other than the Jewish Quraiza, the Jewish Levite priesthood. Your claim is consistent with it.
Congrats to the linguist,A.J. Deus and you.
Thank you Mel ,excellent presentation
12:00 Hey Mel, I think that this passage is referring to the Maccabean Revolt. The romans obviously were the ones "who believed not" and "who kept you away from the sacred Mosque (Temple Mount)...". The victory that is presented in this passage is probably the victiorious revolt.
Another thing which I find extremely interesting is that the location, the valley in which this victory happened, here is named "Makkah". This leads me to believe that Makkah is just another name for the Kidron Valley and/or the area around it?
This would also explain the name "Ha Makkabi", which is usually translated as something to do with a Hammer.
Now one can speculate if it was The Maccabean that gave the name to the valley, or if it was the valley that gave its name to the Man who "freed" it from the romans.
I think it's actually talking about Bisanteenes (Romans, even they called themselves a Romans) and calling the jews to try again to oweratake Jerusalem from them.(First time they failed when they fought with Persia against them) But yes, could be aluding to Macabean revolt like example of bravery, justice and maybe proof that overtaking Jerusalem is possible)
Take this simple writing: فارس
Modern Arabic: "Faarsh", or "Faarish". Referring to Persia, Persians, also horseman (think about the famous Persian cavalier).
But without dots, you can pronounce it: "Quraish", as one of alternatives word. Coincident?
The Arabic word "Farsh", in the old days, was used to call people from ethnic groups such as Farsh, Tajik, Kurs, Tat, and Hazarah.
@@ibradira8611First of all فارس means Fars, not Farsh. Second, you can not pronounce this as Quraish even without dots, because there is literally an Alif after the F. It could be pronounced Qars, Qaris or Qarus at most.
Excellent! The Quraish certainly did not inhabit Mecca, as Mecca did not exist in the 7th century. Looking for them n and around Jerusalem or Mesopotamia is the proper scholarly approach.
Petra perhaps? 🤔
@@mysotiras21 "Mecca did not exist in the 7th century" 🤣🤣🤣
@@zphre7548
Modern scientific historical research (and also common sense) proves that the city of Mecca could not have existed as a large commercial caravan city in the 7th century.
Main reasons for this fact are:
1) Mecca is not an oasis, so there is no surface water (only a well, known as zamzam which is clearly unsufficient and inappropriate for watering many caravan camels)
2) Mecca is not shown on any map or any document at that time or even previously
3) Mecca is located down of Hidjaz plateau and could therefore not be located on the caravan route which is located more than 1000 m above on the plateau (eg the city of Taeef is located at an altitude of ca 2000 m while Mecca is at 300 m)
4) there were no archeological remains or artefacts (coins, potteries, ruins, bones etc) discovered in Mecca dating from before circa year 700
It is impossible that a large city would leave no trace at all of its past
5) no agriculture whatsoever is possible in this wild rocky desert location, how could a large city survive in such hostile environment ?
@@zphre7548 I guess you've stopped by randomly in here... if you've been following this channel you already knew the funny point is to believe "Mecca did exist in the place it does today, in the 7th century"... 😂😂😂😂 Please, I'm cracking myself up 😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@Epopteya he is an abdool and he definitely has licked the black stone
Islam says "Qureysh" derives from the Arabic word for _shark_ ,an euphimistic referrence to the strength of the patriarch from whom the Prophet's clan was descended; I'd always wondered why would desert people use for a sobriquet the name of a sea monster? This podcast is the first reasonable approach I've heard making sense of the conundrum.
Another gem!
Quraish as people/tribe are with other words the people of the Quraish/temple = those people grown up in Jewish teachings of Tanakh and including Talmud/Zohar/Kabbala... Do I understand correct?
Yes, but to avoid confusion, spell it as Quraish.
Originally the kaaba was in Jerusalem, not in Mecca, and it was jewish.
We have to remember that the quran was originally a preaching book of the Nazarenes (called "nasara" (نَصَرَ) in the quran) who were a jewish-christian sect (a "heretical" one for regular byzantine christians since they did not believe in Jesus divinity nor in Trinity).
As Jews they practiced pilgrimage to Jerusalem, and their ultimate goal was to go to Salomon's temple.
The Holy of Holies was located at the westernmost end of the Temple building and was a cube: 20 cubits by 20 cubits by 20 cubits. The inside was in darkness and contained the Ark of the Covenant. And it was located at the actual location of the Dome of the rock in Jerusalem.
So originally the kaaba was in Jerusalem, not in Mecca, and it was jewish.
This is also why the first mosques had their qiblas directed to Jerusalem and not to Mecca.
hmmmmmmmm, i better find more reliable information
@@osuclassof88
Tell me when you find it
@@jeangatti9384 "kaaba in jerusalem" ... no info. "Quran originally book of Nazarenes" ... no info.
@@osuclassof88
Islam 101 in a nutshell ...
The quran is originally (so-called "meccan" surahs) a christian preaching book used by the anti-trinitarian christians called nazarenes, they are called "nasara" (نَصَرَ) in the quran, while the trinitarian (orthodox) christians whom they hated are called "mushrikuns" (مشركون) ie "associators" or "polytheists" because they associate Jesus to God (which is "shirk" شِرْك that opposes to Allah's unicity called "tawheed" تَوْحِيدُ )
Therefore islam might be considered as a heretic christian sect.
@@jeangatti9384 no, hahaha. go to the right college or university
Masjid al haram literally refers to the desert or remote unreachable part, whereever. But Jerusalem a trade center with its own richness, and wanting their own center of worship, the new religion created their own sacred place to be desert in a speciific place. Why its referred as place for Abraham is the story where Abraham leaves his clan to the remote land in protest and with god's blessing survived, the Arabs believe they were from the family of Ismael.
Your audio is still not great.
It seems you have a noise gate / "(background) noise filter" on it, but the threshold is too high, so the quieter bits get throttled.
Whole syllables tend to get lost this way.
Many human spoken text videos out there suffer from this, unfortunately.
Thank you for this. I didn't know what was wrong with it.
Tom Holland writes about this in his book: The Shadow of the Sword.
What do you make of Avi Lipkin's book Return to Mecca: Let My People Go so That They May Circle Me in the Desert?
Shem (Semites) is the ancestor of Eber (Hebrews) who is the ancestor of the Ishmaelites, Israelites and others. The Semitic pagans, the Semitic Jews and the Semitic Samaritans had different locations and styles of worship. But Mt Gerizim was destroyed in 110 BCE and the Jerusalem temple was destroyed in 70 CE. Only the Tomb of the Patriarchs was left standing. Petra was destroyed by earthquakes in 363 CE and 551 CE. This must have caused great anxiety. The construction of the Dome of the Rock in 691 CE must have generated some religious fervor!
Perhaps this helps to explain why many former mosques, ones which have been uncovered by archaeologists, do not point toward Mecca as their direction of prayer (qibla). It is a simple fact that Muslims simply refuse to come to terms with, and there MANY other simple facts that they also refuse to come to terms with. It seems almost futile to talk to them. It is also (often) unpleasant because they think that the solution to being totally undermined by n array of facts is to yell louder (be more polemical).
@davidhansen1811 Uh, no? It's part of our religion that the Qiblah was initially Jerusalem.
@@zphre7548 "Religion", yes lots of baseless religious stuff in Islam. Ummayid legends etc. The word Jerusalem does not appear as text in the Quran. And you are saying that God changed his mind for some reason? Mecca was a nothing. It is a construct..
@davidhansen1811 Quran isn't the sole basis of Islam. Ahadith narrations that have been graded to be mutawattir and sahih also make up a core part of our religion.
@@zphre7548 So 'random' traditions, of which there are many (coming from this sect or that Islamic sect) can and do supersede the Quran. Thank you for that. I will take that to the bank.
@davidhansen1811 There is no disagreement between narrations that have been agreed upon. There's a reason why they're called "agreed upon" (mutawattir). Baseless assumptions are not welcome in academia; Google is free.
Was really mecca city not on ground? If i wish to agree with you, how will you convince me through geography and other archaeological proofs? Regards. Asar ahmadzay
Stay tuned, a lot more evidence on this playlist. Take a look at the opening videos for preliminary evidence from Paul Ellis and Odon. I'm going to build on this over the coming weeks.
1 Peshat, 2 Remez, 3 Homiletical, 4 Sod.
By which interpretation should we read the Quran? 1 billion use number 1 everyday. If they they understood number 4, the world changes forever.
You not only know, you know that you know ;-)
Muslim scholars have Ibara, Ishara, Lataif, Haqaiq. You could try understanding that first.
@@LloydDeJonghCan you give me reference, i need for my work. Thanks!
Masjid Al haram is a place holder, when Moses fled from Masjid Al haram that was the city of Firawn in Egypt he went to the Furthest city that was Muqadasa , which was Madyan
In another verse Muhammad is told to face( focus not physical direction ) Masjid Al haram, this is now referring to Mekkah
Muhammad was called an Ummi , it dosent mean illiterate, it means from the mother city and umiyoon is those from the mother city
It's about Jerusalem, ,, forbidden " Temple, Bisanteenes forbid to kews to go there after defeat a Persia in Bisanteenes -Persian wars.
@sasa_sasa_sasa230
No it's not, proof is the verse is talking about banu Israel , and the Persians already prayed 5 times a day before Islam came , there is a letter in the British Museum of a reply by the ruler of Persia at the time Umar captured the territory and in the letter he laments Umar on his actions
They basically lied to you and everyone that 5 times a day salaat was prescribed to Muhammad via a flying horse in heaven, just to preserve the Zoroastrian religion
@@thebeesnuts777 that letter as i know is in big question. Second, there's no Muhammad's Heavenly ascent, surah 17 originally spoke about Moses Heavenly ascent, very well known legend to the jews even before Christ. Even Samaritans believe in it.
@sasa_sasa_sasa230
Yes there is no heavenly assent, that's a fabricated story, the Quran seems to talk about Moses As the beginning of Nabiyoon prophet/Messenger and that Nabiyoon prophets and Messengers ended with Muhammad reestablishing the order that was before Moses who had teachers called Anbiyaa whom we refer to as prophets , yaqoob, Abraham, Noah etc they would teach anyone how to connect to the divine source as an individual without the need for intermediaries to whoever wanted to learn
Muhammad came and was tasked to reestablish this way , something happened in history after Ishaac , and Yusuf , where the whole world was plunged into darkntheiress and by such an event a community was chosen to receive a revelation and Nabiyoon to reeducate and help the rest of humanity towards reestablishing the order ,I.e no compulsion in religion learn to connect to the divine through education , that's basically the original order
@@sasa_sasa_sasa230
You shouldn't take things literally, this is how the original message gets corrupted both by incompetence and malicious intent
If Moses ascended towards heaven , we should take that as figuratively , as his aim was learning and to keep relearning , as do the Angels they are depicted with wings like birds to describe that they are able to ascend to the heavens , both in their cognitive abilities and the afterlife, therefore Moses ascending would be that of his earthly life and his level up when he passed away
Persian, Old Avestan, Sanskrit connection is key....
And the other Jews in the picture are the Yemeni Jews, the 'Queen of Sheba' faction.
Ethiopian Christians include the Book of Enoch in their cannon, so there is something happening in that area too, especially as the sourthern Arabian form of God, Al Rahman, is important in the Quran.
Love it
May I add....
Quraysh also have other name which is Fihr
And I'm wondering where does "Fihr" come from and the history behind it
I will investigate. I think I did a look into this before.
@@IslamicOriginsI did some digging and haven't found any Afroasiatic roots that could explain a f/p-h-r root in Semitic languages. And only Aramaic and Arabic attestations. The earliest are Safaitic, and Nabatean Aramaic - Greek inscriptions. In the inscriptions it is only used as a name. So we can geographically point to a northern origin for the name. In Greek it's written as φερος.
A name derived from the Greek φόρος meaning 'tribute' in the nominative singular, seems a possible etymology.
I did find Syriac attestations with the meaning of 'to gape/yawn' and 'river'. The latter seems to be the main usage in Arabic.
The meaning of 'river' could be a derivation from the Greek φέρω meaning 'to bring/carry' from which φόρος meaning 'tribute' is derived.
@@TheLinguist601reference please, i need for my research
🧃 they were. 🤗
Another name Hager is -> Hajar -> Haj + Ar = Arab Pilgramage. Hajar and her son go to Arabia, they are first to make Haj at Mecca ... SIN seems to be built from this word play. Another point, how would the reseidents of Jerusalim feel about a bunch of Cammel(Not Kosher) riders decending into there holy city, any clue if Cammels were allowed inside the walls of the city.
I doubt the etymology of Hag and Ar can be justified like that. The word is הָגָר֙ (hā·ḡār).
@IslamicOrigins that's why you are the Guru! Thanks for feedback
@@Yo0264 I'm no guru, just piecing things together with my limited abilities. Thanks very much!
Hagar was from Egypt. She would have spoken Egyptian? Abraham and his family spoke Hebrew, so it's logical to assume that she learnt Hebrew. There is a wide spread understanding that Hagar was a name given to her when she joined Abraham as a hand maid. In Hebrew, the way you would describe a foreigner is HaGer, the foreigner, and there is a Midrash that says this is the origin of her given name. The Hebrew cognate of Haj is Chag. Today this means holiday, applying to any of the Jewish holidays. So, right now you could wish someone Chag Sukkot Semeach. However, it used to just refer to the three annual pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Som by your logic, her name would have been HaChag, the pilgrimage.
Bro camels was not prohibited to jews, their meat 🍖 was, Jerusalem had Camel 🐪 needle entrances.
Wouldn’t the People of the Temple be the equivalent of the Sadducees?
no quraish means güresh (to fight or to struggle in türkisch) The Porphet was a good Güresh-ci ;-)
Maybe you will think that I am playing the devil's advocate here but all of what you are explaining leaves more burning questions.
For example if the Caliphs are friendly to the Jews and know their relationship with Judaism why didn't the Jews join en masse? Why was it allowed to let itself be bastardized to the point that they don't recognize the most holy place as the main one? Even if you take into account civil wars they should have fought to the bitter end for their most sacred sanctuary.
So either your theory is too ambitious or there are more things going on. I think that you should read "Le Coran des Historiens" and the work of Guillaume Dye in general. It's in French so he is sadly not cited enough for anglophone academics but he clearly noted misunderstanding of Syriac literature baked in early muslim one which does give credit to the idea of a huge misunderstanding. Yet changing the narrative that much is still difficult to grasp or to accept.
Who says they didn't join en masse? The suspicion is that they did - as strange and unlikely as that may be. Iraq had millions of Jews, who spoke Arabic. (There are lots of examples of them writing Arabic in their Hebrew script.) Where did they go to? They seem to have disappeared off the map and instead we have Muslims, who claim to be descendents of the Mhmd - which of course could originally have meant a Jewish messiah. What confuses things is that there were Jews in Iraq whose main language was Arabic and not Hebrew. Were these mislabelled as "Arabs" in the 7th and 8th centuries, and assumed to be Muslims before they even converted? There is a lot of gaps that we don't know. We also have the strange practice of people in traditions having Jewish and Arab versions of their names: does not tell us something? Lots to digest and reflect on.
@@IslamicOrigins That's more than food for thought, that's a banquet...
Let me continue, wouldn't they use primarily Aramean in Sassanid Mesopotamia? It also brought back to my mind the incantation bowls of Mesopotamia apparently used to repel demons and therefore protect the house. I thought their main language was Hebrew (but I am writing form memory only here)... of course you can't exclude the idea of a specialist scribe, yet those seemed rather common... but if those jews speaking Arabic are so common, how did they relate to their own literature? And following the testimony of Benjamin of Tuleda, the Caliph knew Hebrew (following your reading) how could they let the corruption happen, unless it was already very much present. And if it happened early on, how could they have done such a sloppy job if they knew they were jews and if the quality of the text was so important. Moreover why relying on Christian Syriac literature...
About the double version of the name, it's not surprising in Mesopotamia, in Hellenistic times you had local people with Akkadian names who received citizenship in a Greek colony (usually due to royal favours) and with it a Greek name. The Romans usually but the native name as cognomen instead, which is easier to identify. Hopefully we do have akkadian texts with attempts at writing Greek names and can at times identify people with two names. That of course doesn't give you reason but offers parallels with earlier periods. I would really like to see examples.
One point where I am really doubting you is when you show your map of Arabia Felix and Arabia Petrea with linguistical borders. We now start to have accounts of Arabian inscriptions from the Jordanian desert and others from the Saudi desert and they start to reveal some details about those people in the centuries before 622... one of the biggest revelation from those discoveries is that the latest presislamic inscriptions seem to be quite monotheistic, even if we can't identify the divinity with certainty. What's certain is that the future decades are likely to reveal new interesting inscriptions allowing us to get more reliable information and I would advise you to pay attention to those developments.
To finish with two personal point of interest the bath in an Ommeyyad palace showing nude women are so different to what is supposed to be Islamic art that it could offer another clue... yet at the same time Judaism is not necessarily enthusiastic about figurative art either, even if we have contradictory evidence in the synagogue of Dura Europos in the 3rd century.
The second and last point of interest of mine is the earliest papyrus with the islamic era found in Egypt. It uses the coptic word "Lami" to designate the newcomers but the origin of the word is unknown. What I know is that at least one article suggested a link with the Lakhmids but I never took the time to delve into that personally. Apparenlty later coptic/arabic glossaries translate Lami as muslim but of course after a century or two the original connection was already long gone.
Lots of things to stones to move and lots of questions yet to answer.
Take care and good luck.
If you see coins,in the time of Ibn Malic he allowed jews to have coins with shehada and Menora+ some tools also had it. In early 8th century. As i see, quran was compiled in stages like bunch of lectenaries to a groups of people who someone tried to motivate to go and conquer Jerusalem.
You have one group of jews that was ,, good " and accepted to attack Jerusalem with Arabs and one group of ,,bad " ones who refused. ,,good " ones were probably jews in Hijaz(not Meka, more Yatrib and south of Arabia Patrea , or even some of them that lived in Palestine,bad ones are probably in Persia, who suffered bad defeat against Bisanteenes (like alie to Persians in Persian-Bisanteene wars one decade prior) and that wasn't willing to try again to attack Bisanteenes.
Also ,, good " jews were probably from Yemen and ,, good" Christians, who also join the effort.
How we know that? Well because we have Ethiopian influence on surahs in quran about Arc of Covenant, and influence of Book of Enoch and Jubilees which was part of Deuthoronocanon of Ethiopia ln Bible.
So now we have many peacees of puzzle on right place,but we need more investigations to fit all.
@@sasa_sasa_sasa230
I will agree that we need more investigation. I have started reading the first volume of "Le coran des historiens" (only 1000 pages just for the first volume). It's colossal. Just the study of preislamic temples and the use of inscriptions is a different take. But only more than 100 pages in that's barely a dent in the first tome, and there are 3 of them.
I also got an interesting idea: if Muhammad is a title, and because the name of the prophet of Islam is absent from early hijra dated inscriptions (until from memory 680 or 690 AD), maybe we could check from the date of appearance of other people named Muhammad. What I mean is that the moment it became a regular first name could offer an interesting chronological clue.
@@williamboisdenghien2849 can i have the reference about that? Lami? Lalmids?
WHO IS THE QUEERAN? THE STUMBLING BLACKS
They are Hamites from Ethiopia. There is not mystery
You went from Quraish to possibly mean Shrine, to Mecca being a reference to the Well of Souls under the Temple Mount. Talk about reaching!
Qureshi = Saduccee Jews ?
Possibly
@@GreenTaqwa yes because most people think that saduccees died out in 70 ad, but i think they became judeo christians and allies of believers in the temple reclaim movement...
@@GreenTaqwa Saducee Judeo-nazarenes were opposing Rabbinical and Christians?
@@yakovmatityahu yes some were, possible Abu Bakr was a saducee as well
@@GreenTaqwa yes
I don't see the logic about this connection that you are attempting to make. You didn't refer to the "tabernacle" by its proper Hebrew name, which is the mishkan. I guess this doesn't fit with your narrative. BTW, Hebrew for just a tent is ohel and again it doesn't fit with your narrative. You keep referring to Ugaritic and Akkadian. Ugaritic is simply an old form of western Semitic, similar to biblical Hebrew but older, from before the Bronze Age collapse. Akkadian had been a common language in mesopotamia but has long since been replaced by Aramaic. Aramaic was the administrative language of the Persian empire and its successors. As such it was widely used throughout the region and influenced other languages, such as early Arabic and the Arabic script. So, by the time of Mohammed neither Ugaritic or Akkadian were in use and hadn't been for several hundred or over a thousand years.
Words even if isolated have a way of surviving long after the language has died.
Yes words (even low frequency words) seem to sometimes survive huge time gaps. I'm surprised myself that low frequency words seem to have survived this long. But I and mostly others found many of these type of words. Where there isn't any attestation for more than a thousand years, and pop back up in other Semitic languages with an identical meaning. How these time gaps are bridged is somewhat of a mistery.
Its also possible that the word underwent changes, but ended up the same.
Take for instance 'night' in Spanish and Russian. That is 'noche' and 'ночь' (noch'); both derive from the same root - just like night -, and just ended up sounding nearly identical with a shwa ending in Spanish and a glottel stop in Russian.
You also find words like the Hittite word for water being 'watar', pretty much the same as English. While the neighboring Indo-European languages have totally different words like the Greek 'νερό' (nero), the Persian 'اب' (aab), and the Armenian 'ջուր' (jur). Greek also has 'ύδωρ' (ýdor) which is from the same root as both the Hittite and English, and from which we get the prefix 'hydro-'.
@@IslamicOrigins by the time of Mohamed the form of West Semitic called Ugaritic hadn't been used for over a thousand years. The forms of the language that preceded it were Hebrew, Phoenician, Edomite etc. Which of these languages preserved this obscure usage and where is it attested? It's certainly not in Hebrew. Similarly with Akkadian. It stopped being used centuries before Mohamed. It could be argued that maybe some features from Akkadian were preserved by Chaldean Aramaic but this is very limited. It's a real stretch to think that something so obscure was preserved in a language like Aramaic, that was spoken from modern India to modern Turkey, without it being widely attested. The whole proposition is a flight of fancy. The real origin is well understood, being from Koresh.
@@stubronstein9932 well i am not sure... For example Targum Johanatan for Rebekah nurse use word Mekhenet, which is Acadian word as i know. Targum Johanatan is official Jewish targum, @IslamicOrigins @TheLinguist601
@@stubronstein9932 @stubronstein9932 well i am not sure... For example Targum Johanatan for Rebekah nurse use word Mekhenet, which is Acadian word as i know. Targum Johanatan is official Jewish targum, @IslamicOrigins @TheLinguist601
Dan Gibson believes Koraysh is derived from a nickname for the goddess AL 'UZZA ... the 'Venus' of Arabia. The nickname is KORÉ (Greek for 'maiden'). The tribe of Mohammed was said to worship KORÉ (the Maiden - Venus - Al 'UZZA). They were the 'TRIBE OF KORÉ' ... the KORAYSH or QURAYSH.
@@mr.angelosonassis3069 doesn't work because there were no paganism in Arabia in 6-7th century.
So, when they say the Quraish people use to worship Hubal they were the one of the 10 clans who made pilgrimage there once a year? I thought those people were from Yemen hence the corner stone, maybe it was too far for them to go to Jerusalem to do the Hajj so they made a copy so those down south to can perform the pagan practice, maybe that was the between Mosque I keep hearing about.
C'mon man you must have seen the De Vinci code; it was all about Mary Magdalene been the real story, the Christians lied, hence Islam has her womb with a wax ball and 6 pebble's in it so people can smooch hence the Kaaba has the burka of royalty on it as she was the last of the great rulers of the King bloodline. Sorry I take back the Christian bit about lying I was quoting the Movie!! But interesting why Islam have a woman vagina at the Kaaba fits the movie, I thought it was Selene the Greek goddess of the greatest most powerful of the moon gods, they're a lot of moon gods.
The word moon can be traced to the word mōna, an Old English word from medieval times. Mōna shares its origins with the Latin words metri, which means to measure, and mensis, which means month. So, we see that the moon is called the moon because it is used to measure the months. Earth's moon does have a name: In English, it's "the moon." The word moon is Proto-Germanic in origin, deriving from a similar-sounding word that came into use a few thousand years ago in Northern Europe. Now you can see why the moon had so many names and why back then was a goddess to many tribes because of its beauty when it reflected light, like a lamp, the light of God!!. GBU Mel loving your finds, Allah mentions both Shaam and Yemen in Surah al-Ma’idah. Shaam is described as ‘the holy land’ [Qur’an, 5:21], and later on in the same Surah Allah also honors the people of Yemen, listing several of their virtues:
Ibn Hawalah (ra) said, ‘The Messenger of Allah (saw) said, “The matter will turn out that you will be standing armies, one in Shaam, one in Yemen and one in Iraq”’ Found in Nine Divine Connections Between the Blessed Lands of Shaam and Yemen.
The Kaaba is bang center of both places; you can see the roadblock in Israel hence they were attacked they want them gone to takeout Sudia Arabia as they now gone western culture like even though Mecca is closer to them, far as Islam concern the Sudie's are causing mischief in the land of the Muslim people. Any how that off topic, GBU.
Fiction & lies.
Trying to spread lies & misinformation. Pathetic
A good summary of what Islam has been doing for 13 centuries.
@@IslamicOrigins Go ahead, waste away your worthless time on fantasy & heresay. Get prepared for a lot of answering, for your toothless lies, in the Hereafter.
@@mas101107Proverbs 30:4: "Who has established all the ends of the earth? What is his name, and what is his son's name? Surely you know!" Do you not see this as God's son, referred to in old time, before Jesus was sent to earth??
these revisionist views are laughed upon by scholars
then those are not real scholars
@MONKEYDUDE2701 Ah yes. Only the fringe
@@zphre7548 hadith tradition is just made up. Literally made up. Everybody here understands how Hadith "science" works. Its no magic, just made up. Every single hadith written down was written after the Abbasid caliphate, and not one of the writers of Hadith went against the Abbasids.
Another Paradox, the hadith graders, grade hadith on how trustworthy certain people in the chain are. But how do they know if they are trustworthy or not? By looking at other traditions and hadiths about how trustworthy they were. But how trustworthy are those traditions and hadiths? They grade them based on how trustworthy the author of that tradition was. But how to they know how trustworthy that guy was? And so on and so on… its a full circle. ⭕️ no logic in it whatsoever.
They do not use "outside“ sources from non muslims at the time, and they also not explain pre-abbasid coins.
We have tons of coins which go directly against hadith, coins with crosses, menorahs on them, living beings on them like people and what not (100% haram according to sahih hadith), and much more.
Hadiths are a joke.
@@zphre7548 " science of hadidth transmission". Oh boy " scientific miracles" too i guess. " scientific islam" " scientific humour "
@miguelsureda9762 You are not aware of the study of isnaad and matn? The analysis of the independent chains of transmission? I shouldn't have expected much from people who took channels like this seriously...