LLF - A Rebel Alliance?
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- Опубліковано 4 лип 2024
- The Bishop of Oxford has responded the Alliance letter to the Archbishops and General Synod (see my previous video • LLF - Will The Church ... ) quite strongly to what they said. They have since responded back to him. Watch this video to see what was said!
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Steven Croft's arguments have been comprehensively blown out of the water. His nerve to claim that PLF is just a minor thing, and then to accuse those seeking to uphold the Church's teaching of schism is utterly breathtaking. Croft and those of his ilk who are tearing the Church apart by forcing through unbiblical doctrine need to be held to account. I am too angry and upset to write any more at this moment.
"Know this, my beloved brethren. Let every man be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger, *for the anger of man does not work the righteousness of God* ."
These verses have been relevant to me on too many occasions when dealing with church politicking, whether the Baptist church meeting or as here the C of E hierarchy trying to prove the doctrine of total depravity. I have every sympathy for you having righteousness anger.
I do wonder if all this fruitless letter writing will lead believers in the C of E to participate in other men's sins.
I am an old, retired engineer. In December 2022 I wrote to Stephen Croft: "I have a problem: is sexual immorality still sin?"
Stephen replied saying that the Greek word used is pornea and this could easily be translated "bad sex" which cannot be defined.
I replied quoting 1 Cor 6 v 9-11 and asked if he had alternative translations for all these words:
"Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God?
Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. And that is what some of you were..."
"Were" before they came to repentance. But not continuously, not now.
Stephen did not reply.
Surely it is our duty to warn a brother who continuously and deliberately sins and refuses to repent of any sin, including sexual immorality, as in Revelation 9:21 and 16:9 and 11?
In my opinion, any senior cleric who asserts that "πορνεία" in the contexts where it occurs in the New Testament "cannot be defined" is lying.
Oh, I challenged the previous Bishop in my Diocese for his choice of an archdeacon who had left his apparently loving and accepting wife and family of decades to move in with another man in an active homosexual relationship, and he was on the board of a 'charity' that promoted such relationships in the C of E. Our part of the Diocese are very conservative, who also had 'reservations and concerns', and he soon left.
My missives went to the Bishop's lackeys and I got called a Satanist when all I was trying to do is protect my Parish and church. This was pre-Lockdown. The rot runs deep in the C of E hierarchy, and it is the spirit of Jezebel.
As strange as it may seem these bishops do not know the Bible very well at all. Certainly not like bishops of old. I haven't seen a single cogent argument from Scripture used by any of them to justify any of their actions.
@@Dave-cf4xq I have never known these types to even refer to Scripture, just dogma, traditions and loose doctrines. I always endeavour to quote exact, in-context Scripture or, at least, the Book/Epistle and Chapter, but these guys? Lost-their-ways or never-were-Christians, no matter how high up the mitre they get. Jesus had words for ones like them who led the flock astray; hypocrites and Nicolatians.
@@Dave-cf4xq According to his Wikipedia page Croft studied Classics and Theology at Oxford, so I find it hard to excuse what seems to me to be flat-out untrue assertions about the definition of the Greek word referred to here. (I have to be careful; I seem to have had an earlier comment deleted, where I was a little more blunt and used the "L-word". Okay. let's be charitable. Perhaps he was NOT deliberately trying to deceive. Perhaps he was just having a bad day. Perhaps...)
All I can say about the Bishop of Oxford and his views and actions. Is that he is the reason I have left the CofE.
I too am considering leaving and actively looking for another church that instead focuses on God.
May God bless these guys for holding firm to the word of God. The way they have answered in love, with honesty and yet with utter conviction is great to see. Stand firm then brothers and sisters, for the Lord is with you and guiding you.
What is hugely disappointing though is the apparent missing signature... The Archbishop of Canterbury.
The archbishop of canterbury is and has been completely silent on the value of Christianity since he took over. Very vocal in the defence of anything and everything else, but actual Christianity seems completely overlooked ...
I left the C of E and now worship in a Free Evangelical Church
So did I. Nice to attend a church that has not abandonded the teachings of the bible to try to be popular. The church is packed and growing all the time by remaining true to the bible
I upped and Quit as well, but am now without a Church as all the Local churches are Apostate or are Cults, and the only Sound, Biblical, Church to Offer me Fellowship, thus far, is 121 Miles away in Morecambe! :(
I am fortunate to be within reasonable travel distance to St Helens Bishopsgate. I went there last week, it was great. I have not been going to the church here for months. I tried the Orthodox Coptic church, I have AF and the smoke nearly killed me off. I tried a congregational church and I didn't even hear any teaching, just endless singing, but it was full. I went to a charismatic African lead church, which was so overcrowded it was very scary, so tight, you couldn't move. I feared that in a panic there would be a terrible crush. The local CofE churches are so empty, it has been good to see that there are still Christians in London.
Have you tried the Elim Church.
@@barbaraallen435 the one on the corner of Cheltenham Gardens? Sometime ago I took part in running the Alpha Course there. I don't suppose that anybody will remember me. I was roundly snubbed when I said I have no interest in speaking in tongues.
Try the Metropolitan Tabernacle, they really do preach the word of God Properly!
Remember this, if its Not Reformed, its a Cult, and it does not get more Reformed than the Metropolitan Tabernacle! Spurgeon's Church!
I visit the Church of England every few months. I go to Rayners Lane Baptist Church to have Refresh Cafe on Saturday at 10am to 12 noon. Then on Sunday at 10.30am to 11.30am for worship. The Hymns are from Mission Praise and Songs of Fellowship. I found both Hymns are powerful and effective prayer to see vision of Jesus Christ of Nazareth and the Holy Spirit. Amen Alleluia. Love in Christ from Jesus and Sylvia Nazareth.
Which c of e Church? I used to be at Christ Church Roxeth nearby.
You were wasting your time and energy on Bishop rainbow. I almost lost the will to live listening to the too and throwing. If Jesus were around in body he would be making his whip ready for action. I wouldn't say it was a waste to time talking to him, I'd say it was a total waste of time talking to him. Oxford and his apostate mates have already decided which bus their travelling on. Thank God others have disembarked before it goes over the cliff edge.
I agree, pearls before swine maybe?.....
Thank you for sharing this. My view is the Bible (God’s word) is very clear on the matter.
The whole same sex marriage and LLF was brought up at the church I attend yesterday. I whole heartedly back and support their views.
As somebody outside the C-of-E looking in, I find this whole thing incredibly sad. So this gentleman is what passes for a C-of-E BISHOP these days, eh? From my point-of-view a radical separation from such folks seems absolutely necessary! Indeed, I can't understand how is it even possible that persons of this mindset and ideology could have captured virtually all positions of high authority in your Church without there having been a major schism quite a long time ago! I think there was a sincere attempt by the letter-writers to engage with him, but it seems evident that teachers and defenders of error like this are never going to agree with orthodox Bible-based doctrines any more than a wolf is going to 'agree' with a shepherd! So really I wonder whether dialogue is somewhat a waste of time? There is an undercurrent of ill-disguised hostility to everything he writes. The official C-of-E position which he is embracing and defending seems to me to be wholly disingenuous inasmuch as it claims to have any respect or regard for those who who don't agree. It surely ain't going to end well for anyone accepting leadership from these Bishops? Of course I don't say that schism is an easy thing. But I struggle to see any longterm alternative for orthodox clergy. Sad situation.
Me too
This fills me with self righteous indignation!
Come home to Rome. Rev Dan you are a brave good man. Fr Clive.
Rome you have got to be joking, with Commie Francis destroying that church.
Stay away from Rome, Rev Dan. It's run by Luciferians.
Seriously considering this.....
I am just a little 'confused' by having the pope as 'head'.....? Have now got my head around the fact that the prayers are an intercession through Mary and the Saints (just about) rather than directly to them , but aren't we supposed to pray through Christ? So not there yet.....miore reading required!
Rev Dan, you are not giving your view as you are in the Oxford diocese. To me, that is the most telling thing about this video. That is not a personal criticism, but rather a sad insight into the threatening institutional culture that pervades the clergy world.
Spot on.
But let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ For whatever is more than these is from the evil one.
@ryanh7515 read "abnegation" by freud
As an Anglican , this is very disappointing and unacceptable. This is as my brother used to say is
a Thomas more moment. I think maybe it is time to return Rome?
Your brother in Christ ✝️
Hold fast to the Gospel of Christ and the Teachings of the Holy Fathers!
+Blessings, Love, and Peace!
Father John
I found the response of the Bishop deeply depressing. I still don't understand how, for example, allowing ministers to be in same-sex marriages, is just a "small and modest change" rather than a clear denial of scripture and contradiction of the church's teaching on marriage and sexuality. I was also grieved by the tone of Bishop Stephen's response, which speaks of respect, but accuses us of schism. Aren't conservatives simply asking for what he and other bishops have said they would provide (proper process, transparency, and provision). I can't quite get my head round his claim that this is a small issue and one that is a concern of a small number of people. I fear that Bishop Stephen will soon discover that this is not the case.
I’m curious why does same sex couples bother you so much? Scripture allows for slavery we don’t have slavery. Scripture allows for stoning we don’t stone anymore.
Isn't trying to find some mushy compromise between these incompatible views the very essence of what Jesus described as being lukewarm?
YES!!!!
I think you should sign the letter.
I feel that all these debates, arguments, letters and meetings concerning LLF are a waste of time. Since the C of E is a state religion, they will be forced to follow government policy come 'hell or high water' even if it means going against Biblical teachings. It is a fait accompli that same sex marriages will go through. IMO, the C of E will follow government policy (which was probably influenced by the UN Human Rights Report : A/HRC/53/37 of 07 June 2023 - Chapter VI).
Exactly! The C of E needs to secede from the Government as a Govt Department asap, or a major schism is going to happen - and it may anyway, as G-d the Father is separating the wheat from the chaff and tares right now. Choose wisely where you stand.
Interesting question following the election. Will the changes in the membership of the House of Commons mean that the pressures being placed on the Church of England to adopt LLF have disappeared or will they increase?
They will increase under labour government
@@CliveEvans-j8w disestablishment can't come soon enough. The state is not Christian, how can it be running the church. No different from China.
Om on my way back to St Helen's today.
Sadly this departure from Biblical orthodoxy has indeed happened one step at a time over many years. Tolerance has been stretched and stretched over the years, many have become accustomed to the error introduced.
It is my opinion that the Church has no right to debate the subject .
It shouldn’t really need debating as the doctrine is clear. Even the bulk of the bishops have said they are having to consider making a change if they slide even further away from the truth.
Romans 1 is clear if you can read !!
So is the constitution!
Good day to you, Rev. Dan.
I am not an Anglican member, I am a disciple of Jesus Christ of 50 years. I am quite appalled by the fact that the C of E is even considering these changes. My son is gay and a member of the LGBTQI community and I love him dearly. However, surely Scripture is the last word on these topics before the Bishops even begin to debate. Under the Scriptural understanding of what a believer and disciple of Jesus Christ is, surely, the term LGBTQI Christian is an oxymoron. Any sexual activities outside the Biblical teaching of marriage between a man and a woman is termed as fornication. And certainly if a person is born again in Christ, his flesh life has to die with Christ and the individual is raised up a new Creation via Repentance and Baptism. Any sexual act between two people outside of marriage is sin and should not be tolerated. I know believers that same-sex attracted and yet have taken the stance to live a life of total abstinence of sexual union with another person as even heterosexual people are to do as well. If the Bishops are making decisions that are not based on Scripture, surely they should be answerable to others for their decisions. No wonder the C of E is in a mess! I have been a pastor of a church when I was younger and there's no way that these proposals would even be considered let alone be brought up in a church council. I enjoy your little videos, but I'm not sure I could even consider becoming an Anglican Church member with all this going on. Kindest regards in Christ
Jeff Knight
It does seem a bit bonkers for the Alliance to write a threat and then conduct tone policing
I picked that up - "...we won't discipline you if you don't accept our decision, but we will anyway..." is what I heard. Not very Scriptural, is it?
As you were reading the back and forth from the letters, I thought of Jehoiakim in the winter Palace in Jeremiah 36. How after Baruch read a portion of Jeremiah's word, the king cut the portion from the scroll and burned it in the fire. The Bishop of Oxford is corrupt and no man of God and like so many of his fellow travellers totally pagan, not born of the Spirit of God and overseeing the final collapse of the Church of England. Spurgeon told Ryle to come out of the CofE, Pastor Dan I would urge the same upon you upon.
The Alliance has no teeth. It's all words and no action.
A vast majority of LGBT people were content with civil partnerships, gay marriage has opened up a can of worms. If the scripture, apostolic tradition and the BCP define marriage as a union between man and woman, to prevent sin, and produce offspring. I don't see how people can wrangle their way around that. Compassion, love, fellowship and understanding are needed not ceremonies that fly in the face of historical Christianity.
I have been so grateful that we at last have an organised voice speaking sense regarding the LLF process. It has been a very, very long time coming however and I do wonder if more had been prepared to speak out about the potential issues this would cause when initially this was discussed if we would have come to this point at all... It IS
a change. A change in doctrine, tradition and teaching and IF there is to be a split it will and should be laid firmly at the door of those pushing for us to bend to the will of the world rather than to hold firm in His word. Lets get back to worshipping and focussing on Him together, rather than the false idols we have created in ourselves.
One wonders what an Letter of Paul to the Church of England would says. I don't think it would agree with the majority of the bishops. A democratic majority may affirm people's feelings but it can not and will not make a falsehood true. The Church of England is on the same road traveled by The Episcopal Church. In effect those who do not agree with the liberal theology will be forced out. Where did this start, the seminaries. There the clergy are taught the liberal theology, from there the congregation was taught it. Liberal bishops were appointed. To think that the orthodox clergy are going to change things is like closing the barn door after the horse escaped and believing that the horse will be inside the barn.
Take a tip from Prince Michael Dan. Instead of listening to the rubbish from the devil's kingdom just tell them to f**k off, and get on with religion as God has prescribed it yourself. He's not worth arguing with. "Get thou hence." I believe Prince Michael said to him. Same thing. P.S. Ask new P.M. Keir Starmer if he can spell God's name? I Doubt if he can even say it.
The term 'God' is a title, like 'Mister', as is the term 'Christ'. The Name of Jesus is precious, but the World uses His Name, *exclusively,* as a curse, of which I no doubt Starmer and Co use copiously.
But Starmer has a Jewish background, and he *knows* what the case regarding the Name of G-d is about - or he ought to.
However, Jesus said that He, His Name and G-d the Father can be blasphemed, but can be forgiven if repented of. b
But *never* the Holy Spirit.
I have rarely, if ever, heard anything about a secular, even atheist, person doing that - but plenty of 'Christians' have denied the Holy Spirit as being 'something else'.
With the rise of a false HS rising in the Church Politic, I almost don't blame them, but it's by the fruits produced we can discern and judge, both gifts of the Spirit, by the way. And the C of E seems to be slapping the Holy Spirit around by telling *Him* they think He's wrong! They will find out, sooner than they think...
@@chrismaguire3667 That's a rather long winded way of saying God will tell the C of E and the governments who have made being gay and same sex marriage legal to F*ck Off, but you're right, he will. Probably using his holy spirit. I don't normally respond to replies, but you had not the courage to finish saying it, so I had to.