I do 800s on the track in 3min, 6 or 8 repeats. That's a similar work out and yes it works well. Local level advanced runners would be in the 3/4min range for 800s. No fancy timing required just run 2 laps of the track hard, fast walk a lap, repeat. Fit as after 8weeks.
Depends on how fit you are. This workout for Kipchoge, vs a new runner would be much different. A 6 min mile is jogging for some and all out for others. So this particular workout is based off of a % of HR max
Interesting! If I can chip in I would say this is ok to incorporate 1-2x week as an elite athlete(boxer or mma) that’s does a lot of other workouts (zone 2-zone 5) right ?
Thank you for finally being the only person I've heard across all the VO2 UA-cams to finally point out that the EASIEST way to increase VO2max is to loose excess weight. There's always videos about do this really hard workout and that really hard workout (and yes some are needed to improve race fitness) but loosing excess weight (not lean mass) is the instant VO2max improvement without the really hard workouts. So yes zone 2 can improve your VO2max by burning fat if you have extra (fat) weight to loose.
Yes! It’s so obvious. But there’s a lot of resistance in people to hear things about diet. Yup, body weight is the key to maximizing VO2max as it’s the quickest and most direct way. Provided that you reduce weight in a healthy way, it’s also beneficial to your health and longevity and recovery.
thanks a million. This is the only time i heard someone speaking about 4x4 a) explaining it in its why b) explaining it in its when c) explaining it in its who d) explaining it. period. The 12 minutes, the 10k vs 5k, how long the vo2 will take to go to vo2 max. this is invaluable science made available for dumbs such as myself. And if you were able to get me understanding it i do genuinely believe you were able to make it clear for anyone. As a consequence of that you made a fantastic job. This is not only in absolute terms but it is incredibly validated when compared to a pletora of charlatans making a huge buzz over the largest 18 months or so on youtube and writing books with the implicit “epiphany” receipt for being healthy at 200 years old or having an opinion on anything based on the first 5 minute of sunlight you look at (even with lenses) in the morning. Thanks a lot. Above all your simplicity and wittiness in talking supported by huge work in doing are a rare example of ethics and decency.
Nice video! I like your ability to explain in a way that even makes myself understand. Apologize for my english in advance:) The "Fathers" of the 4x4 from a Norwegian perspective, is Professors Jan Helgerud & Jan Hoff (NTNU). They studied and developed this method like in the 90's (?) or something mainly for patients with heart and lung diseases. They did further testing with athletes and norwegian football teams and "sold" the 4x4 as sort of a "medicine for everything". By that I mean good for health, and also for performing better for athletes of all levels. They were even hired in for increasing cardio with the 4x4 program from top clubs such as Real Madrid and Barcelona as well. Taken in consideration that i am no expert in the matter and just in my perception - I think this method is a bit "old school" (in lack of a better term), and not a method that is used by the Ingebrigtsens today as far as i know. I think they build their training more around double thresholds and low intensity training to avoid injuries, and also for faster restitution = more kilometers a week. I myself did the 4x4 in addition to weight training for a couple of years (threadmill only). It was of course on and off some periods, but when i had it going steady i did 2 and sometimes 3 of them every week as pretty much the only cardio method. In hindsight the only things i didnt do "correct" was that i had 3 minutes of breaks where i stood still and werent active at all, and sometimes i had to lower the speed in the later intervals. I had a good "aerobic base" from before growing up with soccer and a relatively active upbringing (nothing extreme). After these (approximately) 2 years i did a real VO2-max test. I then weighted 90kg (muscular/athletic kilos) and ended up at 62 ml/kg/min which is fairly/pretty high for an amateur with that weight as i understood it. So where did the fairly high VO2-max and the 4x4 came in handy for me? I did some 3k's the next year and the best one i got was at 10:36. Before those 2 years I was probably at aorund 12:00 on a 3k. My point is - at the high volume i did of 4x4 it really "cost way more than it tasted" (probably a norwegian term, but i hope you catch my point). If it were today, i would definately do a much more diverse training model, and i think i would get the same, or better results on those 3k's or any other runs. I'm not trying to talk down the 4x4. Helgerud and Hoff have probably helped countless amounts of people with their model. And keep in mind I did ONLY 4x4's, and i didnt do them 100% correct, and I probably did too many each week - but look of it more like an experiment of "what happens if you only do 4x4 for 2 years" :) I also believe that 4x4, or other VO2-max models, and also Zone 5 training brings an important mental dimension to the training as well. I believe it is crucial to have tasted that blood/been visiting that basement before, so that it is a familiar feeling when you are about to push that little extra in for example a competition. Edit: This is not an attempt to undermine your video. I enjoyed it very much and have subscribed and everything. I am also fully aware that the video just explains "What is the Norwegian 4x4", rather than "This is why 4x4 is so amazing" - I'm just adding my experience to it:)
Helgerud and Hoff recommends up to 6 4x4 sessions per week for athletes in the pre-season to boost vo2 max and then 2-3 sessions when the season starts to maintain that level
@@victorhakansson8948It depends on fitness level. For most people they say one 4x4 per week is enough for maintenance. Two or more to make improvements.
Don't know if any of the other commenters have pointed this out but Stephen Seiler has researched 4x8 intervals (at least for bikers), and he believes the 8-minute intervals are better than the 4-minute intervals for improving VO2 max..The intensity is lower, (but still adequate), and the time spent at VO2 max is greater. I believe that he has concluded that the volume (total time) at VO2 max is key to improving VO2 max. I can attest that 8-minute intervals are really hard, but it is possible to maintain an intensity of around 90% max HR for the duration. So I don't think it's accurate to imply that four-minutes is the top end for VO2 max intervals. I do agree that when starting out it may be best not to try to do four full sets of 4 (or 8) minute intervals right out of the gate. Performance will drop off pretty radically if you don't build up to four sets, and either protocol is pretty aversive. I do not agree with lengthening the rest periods beyond the 3 (not 4) minutes prescribed by the chief advocates of the protocol (the Cardiac Exercise and Research Group at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology). The drop off in heart rate with longer rest times would be so great that you'd spend two or more minutes each interval just building up to VO2 max. This isn't a speed workout; full recovery defeats the purpose. This last point raises the question about why improve VO2 max. As I mentioned, this protocol as made famous by the Cardiac Exercise and Research Group at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology and was NOT developed as a method of training for athletic performance. The researchers at CERG believe there's a correlation between VO2 max and heart health, and they saw a correlation between this protocol and improvements in various other indicators of cardiovascular health.
Yup, there are lots of protocols. The Norwegian protocol is not even necessarily the best. This was just a video on reporting on what this workout is because it’s hot right now and people want to know. The best way to improve VO2max is simply to lose weight
Those influencers like PA probably feels it's easier to get newbies to do 4x4 than 4x8 which mentally is slightly tougher but I guess any interval is brutal if you do them hard enough
I'm a cyclist. If you think about it, our threshold power (power at max lactate steady state, sort of lactate threshold, more specifically power at LT2) has to be limited by our VO2max. You raise VO2max, you pull your threshold power up with it. And in cycling, we frequently have 3-8 min max efforts (by the end of that sort of effort, you should be at or close to your VO2max). I typically do 1 VO2max effort per week close to race season. Anyway, I am not sure I agree that VO2max isn't what drives your performance - it is definitely a part of improved performance (not simply correlated with improved performance). It can be a limiter of your performance, depending on what sort of performance, and depending on other aspects of your fitness. In addition, I think it's well accepted that it's not just raising VO2max. You need to work at threshold as well. To some extent this should push your actual threshold power up, and to some extent you're also increasing your time to exhaustion at threshold.
VO 2, max is not what drives your performance. It simply supports the muscles which drive your performance. Running) is a muscular event, supported by your cardio, pulmonary system, and ability to produce energy metabolically. But it is not a metabolic event, or a cardio pulmonary event predominantly. It is a muscular event. And so training the muscles is essential. Otherwise athletes and other sports would excel across-the-board in every sport. We need sports specific training. What makes Running training specific to Running as well of course it uses running locomotion. Which is neural muscular
I love that workout in the beginning, I changed it from 4x4 to 4x3 tell somebody told me he said wow you know more than they do so I went back and I do enjoy that work out at 62. I’m not making great strides in my V2 max, but I’m slightly going up in it, but I feel stronger when I finish at work out. No, I love your insight of why it’s four minutes times four it’s just brilliant. I mean you know when you realize what that does and I agree if you tried to do five I’d be afraid that your form, and everything else will go down the window and you wouldn’t get a real workout past for phenomenal , great teaching
I love that you adapted this workout to fit your needs to 4x3. That’s a very effective workout. Just be sure that it’s at a slower pace that you COULD do for 4 mins
@@runelitecoach As an Norwegian, we have been told to stay near 16 minutes in total. So when adapting, you can do 5x3 or. When your VO2 increases, you just adapt and do 5x4, 6x5 or 8x3. You can even increase speed og incline.
Good video! My son does LT work right now that is slightly below VO2 Max intensity 4x6 mins.. His recovery is actually based on how fast he clears lactate. Over time his recovery will naturally get shorter from repeated efforts over months of his body being able/learn how to clear lactate more efficiently. It goes 10 minute aerobic warm-up (65%) - 4x 6 mins. (88-90% for each interval and jog the recovery until his heart rate has reached aerobic 65% for one 1 full minute)-10 minute cool down lower aerobic (60-65%) 4x4 would seem perfect for doing an intensity slightly above LT in the VO2max range.
17:42 hard truth.. I remind myself that I put my self in injury zone due to my weight (93kgs). But I take my time by gradually build my heart rate, extra warm up. But it's better to loose weight. Your advice on adding 100m strides at end of Z2/ Easy run has helped a lot 🏃 Keep up the great content
The key point is to keep the heart rate near to max. Intervals makes it easier due to the resting in between, making it a more feasible workout. I started a session and ran 5km 5 times (1 day rest between) with high intensity and my VO2max scores were: 40, 40, 42, 43, 43
I’m glad that you had improved with this strategy but I can’t recommend people train regularly at close to HR max or run hard 5ks on 5 consecutive days. That’s a recipe for burnout and injury. Glad it worked for you but did your races get better? Thanks for the comment and reaction
I’ve appreciated Dr Jack Daniels’ research, his three editions of Running Formula sharing it with the rest of us, and his coaching. Just awesome to have watched from a distance and wishing I’d been somewhere where middle distance and XC had been better represented back in the day. Trying to do the NIs with 3:00 recovery and stopping or stretching recovery to 4:00 if not hitting what I call my recovery thresholds for continuing. Sugar Kane occasionally in place of NIs more as a challenge than anything. Just trying to remain vertical and above ground without the otherwise inevitable crash into decrepitude. Thx for the information
Great video. Just a thought on the weight loss topic at the end - completely understand the point, but do worry how this can be taken. Eating disorders can be rife in running, so I wonder if there’s a way to reinforce the message around healthy eating/making sure you fuel effectively/having a healthy relationship with food, while guarding against disordered eating. The ‘I’ve run XXX so now I can have XXX’ can become very toxic, too.
I enjoyed the book. I enjoy the videos. I'm concerned about the many references to losing weight in both places. Again, I understand that truly excessive weight can be a hinderance to reaching maximum potential in running. But there are people who are at a healthy weight, even at the low end of healthy as many runners are, and continue to feel that they need to lose more weight. There are many elite and amateur runners who fall into this category. Low energy availability, RED-S, overtraining, stress fractures, and other injuries can result. Messages about weight loss from authority figures in the sport need to be carefully tailored and delivered.
Awesome video! Thanks for this great explanation, I’ve been really curious about this workout after hearing the buzz around it for some while. On the weight and diet thing. I ran a half marathon a few weeks ago which was the exact same hilly course event I ran at the end of 2019. I ran 2 mins slower than I did back then and I run a lot more mileage now than I did back then…which is like of crazy. But maybe not so crazy when I realized that I am now about 10lbs heavier than I was back then. I started lifting weights in 2020 after being really sick work Covid and going down to a kind of scary low weight. So some of the weight I put on has been muscle but also some is fat which I am finding pretty hard to shed. I am 37 so I kind of attribute it to just getting older as my diet is generally pretty clean and I don’t consume a lot of excess calories. Anyway I don’t want to be the weight I was in 2019 when I ran 2mins quicker as I feel like I am was underweight then and generally look better at my current weight. But I sure would like some or that free speed back haha. So I think losing some of this excess fat would obviously be good for me overall.
Very informed description of N4X4, Knowledge with experience behind it! Thankyou for the informative video, now i am a subscriber! Do you have any suggestions for folks who do boxing which has very intense 3 minute rounds and are trying to improve fitness and mitigate gassing during these rounds, I currently am trying the N4X4 twice a week. Their isnt alot of detail on improving ring fitness other than "just run" "Just skip", Maybe you have some videos on something similar.
Yup :) so obvious and direct it’s hard to believe that people don’t focus on that. It’s in the metric of how we measure VO2max. ml KG min. Thanks for the post Omaribisa
my running hadn't improved in years until I started doing 4x3 or 4x4 once or twice a week, through the winter I did a lot of hr, z2 training which I believe was useless due to my volume being too low. 5 weeks in and my vo2 max has improved and i'm running times I haven't done for nearly 10 years, I find it tough, but I can motivate myself easier than doing a 5k, even though I do over a 5k when I do 4x4, I also find recovery no problem now, I think that's just improvement in general fitness,
In my experiance half the work time for rest is just enough. So 4mins on 2 mins off. That keeps it's intense and gets you working again before your cold.
Great stuff as ever. I was concerned at first as it seemed to contradict the tri model in your book were you are moving towards goal pace but then you brought that up further into your video so all good.
I am a man who until recently only lifted weights. I started to run because of a wrist injury. I weight 101kg @ 185cm. Three weeks ago I started running. Today I did a 4*4 but rested only 3 minutes between the intervalls. Warmup, 14 km/h for 4 minutes, 10 km/h for 3 minutes, 14 km/h for 4 minutes, 10 km/h for 3 minutes, 14 km/h for 4 minutes, 10 km/h for 3 minutes and last run 14,5 km/h the first two minutes, then 15 km/h for 1,5 minutes and last 30 seconds in 17,5 km/h. That was a really intense workout for me. I have no idea however what heartrate I had. Is it worht getting a fitness watch or can I just go by feel? I know that today I could possibly push a bit harder and get the pace up to 14,5 in all intervalls but then maybe I wouldn't be able to sprint the last 30 seconds. I find it odd that I can run this "good" already. Can the weight lifting help that much in general condition? Is the regular workouts I do making my mind able to pus myself? How much improvements is actually being able to push yourself vs actually getting in better shape? Is it recommendable to add a sprint until totally exhausted? I mean when I lift weights, it's not always advisable to reach failure. And in weight training I see a lot of beginners who just don't push themself hard enough.
Getting in better shape is far better than just pushing harder. And no doing sprints until you’re completely exhausted doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. You can run at full speed and keep it to eight seconds and get the best of your speed development and then repeat it without burnout.
Not Norwegian specifically. Owen Anderson described these and many similar workouts in great detail (and lactate monitors btw) in 2013 in his seminal work Running Science.
Dude. It’s the name of the workout. Just like a “Yasso 800” is, well, a “Yasso 800”. You can do it or not, like it or not, but this is a protocol for that workout should you choose to do it
I read somewhere the breaks between the 4 minute running intervals could be only 3 mins long. On another point, it may be feasible to train above VO2max by taking baking soda before the workout to create an alcaline buffer, thus delaying the acidification of the body due to lactate.
The prescription for 4x4 pace between 5k and 10k race pace confuses me. If I can run for 20 minutes at 5k pace, how is 16 minutes split between 4 intervals over half an hour at a slightly slower pace going to be a 95% effort?
Great topic as ususal coach!!!! McMillan also prescribes a 6 week block of this called speed development, but in actuality it is just maintenance. One day of 20 second pickups x 16 with 1 minute recovery embedded into a 8 mile workout a week.. The second workout of week prescribes Vo2 max with invtervals that get longer up to the 4-6 vo2 max reps over 6 week period and jog rest. What is strange is McMillian kind of goes into a hybrid model in his main training components. It starts out basing runs on time then as the plan progresses it goes to mileage and paces....Your really break all these top coaches down, they are working in the tri-phasic model, but all with different spins on them. My case is strange I have been in a 7 month conditioning/base phase since restarting running and now going into 6 week block of exactly what you have perscribed. During the base phase I ended up hitting 50 miles a week with hill strides and flat strides, and now in 2nd week of 6 week block of non specific training before going into a 24 week 1/2 marathon buildup. Plan on doing some 5k fitness tests after 6 week block to see if I can get back into sub 19 shape leading into my 1/2 buildup....This is all sort of new b/c my environment has changed since all my training is in mountains now. Went from maybee 200 vert a week in 2018 to about 4 thousand feet a week which is a lot for me now.... Yes 5 year break....!!!!!! but im back have some big things I want to hit in next 2.5 years leading to my 50 year old mark....Age is just a number like a time you run on a clock. I still have some very lofty goals, but I know I will hit them..
McMillain’s program covers a lot of good stuff. I like the short pickups, I just call those strides. And yes many successfully systems have a lot in common. It’s also true that many popular systems are only ok because they focus on what works in the short term for many runners. But planning out longer term is a good idea but much more difficult to do with a cookie cutter plan…which is unfortunately perhaps, what many runners are looking for
Good video. Thanks for explaining. I was confused by your pacing explanation. You said 4x4 is a VO2 Max workout and if I’m correct you run at your VO2 Max pace which you said is a pace you can sustain for 10-12 minutes (so faster than 5k pace). But for pacing for non elite or pros you say it should be between 5k and 10k pace. Wondering if I missed something. If it’s VO2 Max should you be running the 4 minute on at faster then 5k pace?
VO2max pace and race pace are not indicative of each other. One Runner may be able to run a 12:45 5K while another runner may run a 25 minute 5K. So using 5k race pace is only a very rough estimate. A 10 to 12 minute race, however far one travels in that time, is more accurate.
I want to see someone actually do one of these workouts and not just talking about it and not just one round. I have a feeling it sounds great on paper but hearing about 50 years old and up doing these I imagine seeing a bunch of people barely moving thinking they are actually doing something the last 2 minutes. Would love to see a video from the actual experiments they talk about. If someone has a video please post the link.
@@runelitecoach but that makes sense when you said marathoners and elite runners. I’d like to see how the average 50-year-old which they talk about in studies could even do this workout just curious as I’ve been trying to implement it but having trouble getting to the four minute mark without stopping completely or going super slow, maybe I am starting too fast? I am no where near a marathoner but could run 5 miles although maybe 8 to 10 minutes per mile at best. When people like Attia and Rhonda Patrick talk about it in the studies that were done it is just hard to imagine these people could do it at all. I imagine most elite level and marathon runners are already at a great VO2Max.
@@KBradAdamsI was thinking the same thing. I just turned 50 I guess I do moderate exercise. There no way I could do that. I was thinking of starting with 1x4’s and building from there
@@jboy4023 yeah I’ve started it a few times pulled a calf! Round 3 at the end. Waited a month round 2 pulled it again! I might go to 2 minutes on 3 off and see if I can work up to 3 mins work then four but the last minute will be barely moving I am sure
I’m a 43 male, always been a slow runner, trying the 4x4 for the longevity benefits of improved VO2 max. I take long rests though so I’m in the variation. My problem with it is that I’m not improving, in spite of the fact that every workout is absolutely miserable. I hate them. So I feel like I’m working hard. I probably do it 1.5 times a week on average but now aiming for 2. Why am I not getting better?
I listened to a podcast where several coaches discussed different protocols. Talk about multiple research studies that used different times, and all were similar in their results. Sets of 30 seconds on, 30 off, even 20/40, to 60/60. 2 min on/off to this 4x4. I'm trying to get my 64 year old legs some speed, so doing two sets of 30/30 x 6 with 5 min jog between. On is fast.... Also need short steep hill repeats, hill bounds... best bang for your buck.
This is not only way to increase vo2 max , sprint interval training and even 50min cardio at 75% of max heart rate 3 times a week also increase vo2 max.. even regular cardio at slow pace also improve it
As stated in the video, there are many protocols. I didn’t claim that this is the only or even the best. It’s simply a report on this particular workout
Any thoughts on building a base prior to including such workouts as the 4x4? I bring this up as I had to take 4 months off after an injury, I’m “was” a moderate runner averaging 40-45 miles per week. I guess the question is whole long does it take to come back after 4 months off, and build the base? Thanks in advance
At around the 13 minute mark just doesn’t make sense. You mentioned running a marathon at 85% of your VO2 max. If you have 2 runners one has a VO2 max of 40 and the other has a VO2 max of 60 I’m betting on the higher VO2 max one every time. Here’s another thought experiment one has a VO2 max pace of 12mph they can maintain 75% (9mph) of that pace for a marathon. The other didn’t do as much VO2 max work and had a VO2 max pace of 10 mph but could maintain 85% (8.5mph) of that pace. The first is running a sub 3hr marathon beating the other by 10 minutes. If I’m able to maintain 85% of 50 vs 85% of 49.9. The first one is higher. The higher you start with VO2 max the less you are going to benefit. If you’re already high 50’s or higher you won’t get the same results as someone with a VO2 max of 40 or even 50.
Given all else being the same, sure I’d bet on the higher vo2max too. But everything else is not the same. Running economy is far more important. That’s why cyclists and XC skiers with higher vo2max scores can’t compete with top runners. Because they haven’t conditioned their running efficiency and economy.
@@runelitecoach if you’re only comparing elite athletes VO2 max becomes less of a factor because they all already have a very high VO2 max. Now if you take the average person with a VO2 max of 40 and through training they bring it up to 50. They are going from 10-12 minute miles to 7-9 minute miles. That’s a massive improvement. You could the most efficient runner in the world perfect stride, everything. If they have a VO2 max of 20 they’re not going to be a fast runner for anything aerobic.
If VO2 is the rate at which we use oxygen then, unless we significantly limit the volume of air we inhale, the amount of O2 we breathe shouldn't impact VO2 by too much. Since O2 is 21% of air volume, a 10% reduction in air intake would result in only a 2% decrease in oxygen. Does this support the idea of nasal breathing?
17:07 - according to Blummenfelt's coach that is false. Reducing your body weight will most likely decrease your vo2max as a result of reducing your base metabolic rate and overall oxygen consumption due to loss of body mass. Blummenfelt weighs around 80kg for reference
By definition, weight is the fastest and best way to increase vo2max. By definition. Of course if you do that through calorie restriction it will backfire. Just eat healthy foods high in fiber, high and water high enzymes, high carbohydrate, low and fat, low and salt unprocessed, Whole Foods .
@@runelitecoachno it's not. If you assume that by losing weight you lose only fat then yes but we all know it's very hard to cut only fat (except if you are obese and then it makes sense) but for the average normal BMI athlete this will not yield a higher vo2max in absolute terms. How much fat can you cut while doing an endurance sport? It surely has diminishinng or near zero-returns for well versed runners who are already fat adapted and burn through calories like crazy. Therefore decreasing your fat free mass will in turn decrease your vo2max and this is also demonstrated in the Gotan et al study
Yes it is. Vo2max is measured in ml KG min. So it’s in the measurement of vo2max. And losing fat is quite easy. But also it doesn’t have to be from just fat it can be from water retention and salt, or mucous plaque as well. Point is reducing weight improves VO2max the quickest.
I've incorporated a 4x4 session once a week alongside my Z2 and weekly short hill sprints. I've noticed however that my VO2 goes down a point every time. It also does after races. Why is this? Globally my V02 has been stable over the last few years. Im using Garmin watch.
Hey how do you know about the speed percentage. i can't really understand my body in those kind of speed percentages.I rather go all out or start slow.can you help me with that.just show me the guidelines about those percentages
Perhaps someone can help me with this. Had pneumonia a few months ago so it might explain my HR zone struggle to some degree, maybe the heart is compensating for that. I've been trying this method " Norwegian 4x4" When doing the zone 2 warm up I basically have to do a brisk walk or I go into zone 3! Then I run in zone 4 right at the top around 4.9 for four mins. The problem is I find myself in zone 3 alot trying to get my heart rate back down to zone 2 usually takes about 60 seconds. In the end this felt somewhat moderate difficulty I felt I still had a fair amount in the tank. If anyone can give me some advice that would be great.
NCAA women's5/10k champion Cross trains alot due to history of injuries. Done right it can help and strengthen your legs for faster paced running. The fastest 400's 3x 53.5 with 10 m recovery in practice I ran was after a semester of leg endurance exercise 5x 15 reps of Quad/ hamstrings alternating for all 5 sets. And 5x5 heavy squats. Strength and lactate clearance is what going to help the most . My muscles were able to clear lactate faster and I didn't fatigue in the last 100m as I usually did before that semester. Increase strength but not body weight and you will run faster for all events.
As its much faster its also a higher injury risk due to the neuromuscular load doing 30 x 30. Running for 30sec hard needs to be likely atleast 15sec/km + faster than ones 12min vVo2max. So the 4 x 4 as discussed still has good merit. Id say hamstring injury risk is higher with 30x30 vs 4x4. Cheers 😊
I've been doing a lot of zone 2 on a bike and what I found that on last couple of 5k's races I've done that I'm running out of breath before I'm running out of legs - So looking at this workout to pull this up and create a separation between Lactate threshold and v02 max. - One thing I'm not sure about is that you said for non-elite runner's that a V02 max workout would be below your 5k pace - Is that right? I'm running a 5k in 24 minutes so to me that's a lactate threshold run - I'm thinking a V02 max interval should be slightly faster?
@@runelitecoach thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. The only thing I was able to fid on your channel is hard war-up before 5k. I asked for a reference..
They also don’t do this workout often. As in most elite systems, the majority of the running is done, easy, and some of the top Norwegians right now, are doing a large volume at just slower than threshold pace. But this video was not describing an entire training season, it’s just highlighting one specific workout that you can choose to do or not.
A small amount but that’s not the focus. Those aren’t the limiters performance so it doesn’t matter. Check out my videos on those not being the limiters of performance or read the chapter on this in the Run Elite book
Agree, he doesnt. He uses 10x3 min, 6x6 min , 10x1000 etc, or shorter like 200-800 repeats. This is misinforming. And I am Norwegian , where 4x4 min was popular, but this was not specific part of the Norwegian treshold model@@sunnlands
You can covert it to that easily if you like… but liters would be more appropriate and easier You could use ounces of oxygen per cell per day too. Doesn’t matter. As long as we all agree on whatever arbitrary measurement is used
@@runelitecoachthe point is that you are kind of deceiving your YT audience when you present the 4x4 intervals as something the Ingebrigtsens brothers or other Norwegian elites would do in traing. 4x4 Intervals is a concept from Norwegian researchers, but tellingly it is not used by elites, basically because it is too hard and not something that can be repeated three (or six) times a week.
@@cochise6345 threshold sessions like 20x400m with short rest, 10x3min, 5x6min, with 1 min rest. Pace never faster than 5k-15k pace even for the short intervals. Intensity controlled by lactate measurements. One VO2max session each week in the form of 45s hill sprints x20
@@sunnlands In addition, the 4x4 protocol, which is used in research and treatment of heart disease by the Cardiac Exercise and Research Group at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, uses three minute recoveries, not four minute recoveries.
great content mate really informative. just to clarify. as someone that runs and does 4x4 for health and enjoyment a couple of times a week . i dont need to be nailing myself doing the 4 intervals ?
I do 800s on the track in 3min, 6 or 8 repeats. That's a similar work out and yes it works well. Local level advanced runners would be in the 3/4min range for 800s. No fancy timing required just run 2 laps of the track hard, fast walk a lap, repeat. Fit as after 8weeks.
Depends on how fit you are. This workout for Kipchoge, vs a new runner would be much different. A 6 min mile is jogging for some and all out for others. So this particular workout is based off of a % of HR max
800 takes me 4 minutes. Perfect
Interesting. How many times a week?
I've bonked twice misjudging the effort by the 3rd one I can't hold pace anymore. Making me upset I can't get the effort right
Just wanted to say "thank you" for this brilliant series of insightful videos. Something I will incorporate into my Speed/Tempo/Interval day.
Very welcome! Thank you
Why is your thank you in quotations?
In the study that the 4x4 comes from, it was done three times a week for eight weeks to improve VO2 .
Interesting! If I can chip in I would say this is ok to incorporate 1-2x week as an elite athlete(boxer or mma) that’s does a lot of other workouts (zone 2-zone 5) right ?
Ooof if this was part of the 80/20 training program, how much zone 2 running would I have to do 😂
@@tf-okonly around an hour 40 if you are just including the working sets into your 20/80 if you’re included the walking in between sets just double it
Thank you for finally being the only person I've heard across all the VO2 UA-cams to finally point out that the EASIEST way to increase VO2max is to loose excess weight. There's always videos about do this really hard workout and that really hard workout (and yes some are needed to improve race fitness) but loosing excess weight (not lean mass) is the instant VO2max improvement without the really hard workouts. So yes zone 2 can improve your VO2max by burning fat if you have extra (fat) weight to loose.
Yes! It’s so obvious. But there’s a lot of resistance in people to hear things about diet. Yup, body weight is the key to maximizing VO2max as it’s the quickest and most direct way. Provided that you reduce weight in a healthy way, it’s also beneficial to your health and longevity and recovery.
@@runelitecoach wont the 4x4 help lose fat too? wont it be a win on both fronts?
@@robl1616 doing workouts at vo2 max will mostly only burn carbs, not fat.
It's not that insightful. We measure VO2max as ml/kg/min, so if you reduce the denominator (kg), you increase the VO2max.
Dunno, it's easier for me to do hard workouts than to lose weight
thanks a million. This is the only time i heard someone speaking about 4x4
a) explaining it in its why
b) explaining it in its when
c) explaining it in its who
d) explaining it. period.
The 12 minutes, the 10k vs 5k, how long the vo2 will take to go to vo2 max.
this is invaluable science made available for dumbs such as myself. And if you were able to get me understanding it i do genuinely believe you were able to make it clear for anyone. As a consequence of that you made a fantastic job. This is not only in absolute terms but it is incredibly validated when compared to a pletora of charlatans making a huge buzz over the largest 18 months or so on youtube and writing books with the implicit “epiphany” receipt for being healthy at 200 years old or having an opinion on anything based on the first 5 minute of sunlight you look at (even with lenses) in the morning. Thanks a lot. Above all your simplicity and wittiness in talking supported by huge work in doing are a rare example of ethics and decency.
Thanks man. Appreciate the support and so glad you enjoyed the video
Nice video! I like your ability to explain in a way that even makes myself understand.
Apologize for my english in advance:)
The "Fathers" of the 4x4 from a Norwegian perspective, is Professors Jan Helgerud & Jan Hoff (NTNU). They studied and developed this method like in the 90's (?) or something mainly for patients with heart and lung diseases. They did further testing with athletes and norwegian football teams and "sold" the 4x4 as sort of a "medicine for everything". By that I mean good for health, and also for performing better for athletes of all levels. They were even hired in for increasing cardio with the 4x4 program from top clubs such as Real Madrid and Barcelona as well.
Taken in consideration that i am no expert in the matter and just in my perception - I think this method is a bit "old school" (in lack of a better term), and not a method that is used by the Ingebrigtsens today as far as i know. I think they build their training more around double thresholds and low intensity training to avoid injuries, and also for faster restitution = more kilometers a week.
I myself did the 4x4 in addition to weight training for a couple of years (threadmill only). It was of course on and off some periods, but when i had it going steady i did 2 and sometimes 3 of them every week as pretty much the only cardio method. In hindsight the only things i didnt do "correct" was that i had 3 minutes of breaks where i stood still and werent active at all, and sometimes i had to lower the speed in the later intervals. I had a good "aerobic base" from before growing up with soccer and a relatively active upbringing (nothing extreme).
After these (approximately) 2 years i did a real VO2-max test. I then weighted 90kg (muscular/athletic kilos) and ended up at 62 ml/kg/min which is fairly/pretty high for an amateur with that weight as i understood it.
So where did the fairly high VO2-max and the 4x4 came in handy for me? I did some 3k's the next year and the best one i got was at 10:36. Before those 2 years I was probably at aorund 12:00 on a 3k.
My point is - at the high volume i did of 4x4 it really "cost way more than it tasted" (probably a norwegian term, but i hope you catch my point).
If it were today, i would definately do a much more diverse training model, and i think i would get the same, or better results on those 3k's or any other runs.
I'm not trying to talk down the 4x4. Helgerud and Hoff have probably helped countless amounts of people with their model. And keep in mind I did ONLY 4x4's, and i didnt do them 100% correct, and I probably did too many each week - but look of it more like an experiment of "what happens if you only do 4x4 for 2 years" :)
I also believe that 4x4, or other VO2-max models, and also Zone 5 training brings an important mental dimension to the training as well. I believe it is crucial to have tasted that blood/been visiting that basement before, so that it is a familiar feeling when you are about to push that little extra in for example a competition.
Edit: This is not an attempt to undermine your video. I enjoyed it very much and have subscribed and everything. I am also fully aware that the video just explains "What is the Norwegian 4x4", rather than "This is why 4x4 is so amazing" - I'm just adding my experience to it:)
Helgerud and Hoff recommends up to 6 4x4 sessions per week for athletes in the pre-season to boost vo2 max and then 2-3 sessions when the season starts to maintain that level
@@victorhakansson8948It depends on fitness level. For most people they say one 4x4 per week is enough for maintenance. Two or more to make improvements.
Don't know if any of the other commenters have pointed this out but Stephen Seiler has researched 4x8 intervals (at least for bikers), and he believes the 8-minute intervals are better than the 4-minute intervals for improving VO2 max..The intensity is lower, (but still adequate), and the time spent at VO2 max is greater. I believe that he has concluded that the volume (total time) at VO2 max is key to improving VO2 max. I can attest that 8-minute intervals are really hard, but it is possible to maintain an intensity of around 90% max HR for the duration. So I don't think it's accurate to imply that four-minutes is the top end for VO2 max intervals. I do agree that when starting out it may be best not to try to do four full sets of 4 (or 8) minute intervals right out of the gate. Performance will drop off pretty radically if you don't build up to four sets, and either protocol is pretty aversive. I do not agree with lengthening the rest periods beyond the 3 (not 4) minutes prescribed by the chief advocates of the protocol (the Cardiac Exercise and Research Group at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology). The drop off in heart rate with longer rest times would be so great that you'd spend two or more minutes each interval just building up to VO2 max. This isn't a speed workout; full recovery defeats the purpose. This last point raises the question about why improve VO2 max. As I mentioned, this protocol as made famous by the Cardiac Exercise and Research Group at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology and was NOT developed as a method of training for athletic performance. The researchers at CERG believe there's a correlation between VO2 max and heart health, and they saw a correlation between this protocol and improvements in various other indicators of cardiovascular health.
Yup, there are lots of protocols. The Norwegian protocol is not even necessarily the best. This was just a video on reporting on what this workout is because it’s hot right now and people want to know.
The best way to improve VO2max is simply to lose weight
Those influencers like PA probably feels it's easier to get newbies to do 4x4 than 4x8 which mentally is slightly tougher but I guess any interval is brutal if you do them hard enough
I'm a cyclist. If you think about it, our threshold power (power at max lactate steady state, sort of lactate threshold, more specifically power at LT2) has to be limited by our VO2max. You raise VO2max, you pull your threshold power up with it. And in cycling, we frequently have 3-8 min max efforts (by the end of that sort of effort, you should be at or close to your VO2max). I typically do 1 VO2max effort per week close to race season. Anyway, I am not sure I agree that VO2max isn't what drives your performance - it is definitely a part of improved performance (not simply correlated with improved performance). It can be a limiter of your performance, depending on what sort of performance, and depending on other aspects of your fitness.
In addition, I think it's well accepted that it's not just raising VO2max. You need to work at threshold as well. To some extent this should push your actual threshold power up, and to some extent you're also increasing your time to exhaustion at threshold.
VO 2, max is not what drives your performance. It simply supports the muscles which drive your performance. Running) is a muscular event, supported by your cardio, pulmonary system, and ability to produce energy metabolically. But it is not a metabolic event, or a cardio pulmonary event predominantly. It is a muscular event. And so training the muscles is essential. Otherwise athletes and other sports would excel across-the-board in every sport. We need sports specific training. What makes Running training specific to Running as well of course it uses running locomotion. Which is neural muscular
I love that workout in the beginning, I changed it from 4x4 to 4x3 tell somebody told me he said wow you know more than they do so I went back and I do enjoy that work out at 62. I’m not making great strides in my V2 max, but I’m slightly going up in it, but I feel stronger when I finish at work out.
No, I love your insight of why it’s four minutes times four it’s just brilliant. I mean you know when you realize what that does and I agree if you tried to do five I’d be afraid that your form, and everything else will go down the window and you wouldn’t get a real workout past for phenomenal , great teaching
I love that you adapted this workout to fit your needs to 4x3. That’s a very effective workout. Just be sure that it’s at a slower pace that you COULD do for 4 mins
I thought the rest period was 3 minutes for this protocol. Thanks for the video.
@@runelitecoach As an Norwegian, we have been told to stay near 16 minutes in total. So when adapting, you can do 5x3 or. When your VO2 increases, you just adapt and do 5x4, 6x5 or 8x3. You can even increase speed og incline.
Good video! My son does LT work right now that is slightly below VO2 Max intensity 4x6 mins.. His recovery is actually based on how fast he clears lactate. Over time his recovery will naturally get shorter from repeated efforts over months of his body being able/learn how to clear lactate more efficiently. It goes 10 minute aerobic warm-up (65%) - 4x 6 mins. (88-90% for each interval and jog the recovery until his heart rate has reached aerobic 65% for one 1 full minute)-10 minute cool down lower aerobic (60-65%) 4x4 would seem perfect for doing an intensity slightly above LT in the VO2max range.
17:42 hard truth.. I remind myself that I put my self in injury zone due to my weight (93kgs). But I take my time by gradually build my heart rate, extra warm up. But it's better to loose weight.
Your advice on adding 100m strides at end of Z2/ Easy run has helped a lot 🏃
Keep up the great content
I’m 48 years old 187 cm and 113 kg. I just did my first 4x4 tonight. Definitely took it easy.
As an american football player we did tons of explosive work and hill sprints. I think that boosted my vo2 max for sure
Sweet
Best details explanation about this. Thanks
Glad it was helpful!
The key point is to keep the heart rate near to max. Intervals makes it easier due to the resting in between, making it a more feasible workout. I started a session and ran 5km 5 times (1 day rest between) with high intensity and my VO2max scores were: 40, 40, 42, 43, 43
I’m glad that you had improved with this strategy but I can’t recommend people train regularly at close to HR max or run hard 5ks on 5 consecutive days. That’s a recipe for burnout and injury. Glad it worked for you but did your races get better? Thanks for the comment and reaction
Nice discussion of this much discussed workout.
Thank you
I’ve appreciated Dr Jack Daniels’ research, his three editions of Running Formula sharing it with the rest of us, and his coaching. Just awesome to have watched from a distance and wishing I’d been somewhere where middle distance and XC had been better represented back in the day. Trying to do the NIs with 3:00 recovery and stopping or stretching recovery to 4:00 if not hitting what I call my recovery thresholds for continuing. Sugar Kane occasionally in place of NIs more as a challenge than anything. Just trying to remain vertical and above ground without the otherwise inevitable crash into decrepitude. Thx for the information
Subbed for the quality content and levity😂
Thank you and welcome to the channel Nicholas
@@runelitecoach 🥳
Good summary thanks 👍
Welcome 🙏
Great video. Just a thought on the weight loss topic at the end - completely understand the point, but do worry how this can be taken. Eating disorders can be rife in running, so I wonder if there’s a way to reinforce the message around healthy eating/making sure you fuel effectively/having a healthy relationship with food, while guarding against disordered eating. The ‘I’ve run XXX so now I can have XXX’ can become very toxic, too.
I enjoyed the book. I enjoy the videos. I'm concerned about the many references to losing weight in both places. Again, I understand that truly excessive weight can be a hinderance to reaching maximum potential in running. But there are people who are at a healthy weight, even at the low end of healthy as many runners are, and continue to feel that they need to lose more weight. There are many elite and amateur runners who fall into this category. Low energy availability, RED-S, overtraining, stress fractures, and other injuries can result. Messages about weight loss from authority figures in the sport need to be carefully tailored and delivered.
I have many many videos on diet, nutrition, and healthy weight for Runners. And it goes much more deeply than in this video.
Awesome video! Thanks for this great explanation, I’ve been really curious about this workout after hearing the buzz around it for some while. On the weight and diet thing. I ran a half marathon a few weeks ago which was the exact same hilly course event I ran at the end of 2019. I ran 2 mins slower than I did back then and I run a lot more mileage now than I did back then…which is like of crazy.
But maybe not so crazy when I realized that I am now about 10lbs heavier than I was back then. I started lifting weights in 2020 after being really sick work Covid and going down to a kind of scary low weight. So some of the weight I put on has been muscle but also some is fat which I am finding pretty hard to shed.
I am 37 so I kind of attribute it to just getting older as my diet is generally pretty clean and I don’t consume a lot of excess calories. Anyway I don’t want to be the weight I was in 2019 when I ran 2mins quicker as I feel like I am was underweight then and generally look better at my current weight. But I sure would like some or that free speed back haha. So I think losing some of this excess fat would obviously be good for me overall.
Welcome 🤗
FYI vo2 is closer to 6-10 minutes of all out pace which could be 1 mile to 2 mile effort depending on fitness.
Ok
@@runelitecoach damn, lol
Well this was fantastic! Subscribed.
Welcome aboard Luke!
Very informed description of N4X4, Knowledge with experience behind it! Thankyou for the informative video, now i am a subscriber!
Do you have any suggestions for folks who do boxing which has very intense 3 minute rounds and are trying to improve fitness and mitigate gassing during these rounds, I currently am trying the N4X4 twice a week. Their isnt alot of detail on improving ring fitness other than "just run" "Just skip", Maybe you have some videos on something similar.
Thank you and welcome to the channel banoogi!
Reducing your body weight to improve vo2 max bit blew my mind
Yup :) so obvious and direct it’s hard to believe that people don’t focus on that. It’s in the metric of how we measure VO2max. ml KG min. Thanks for the post Omaribisa
my running hadn't improved in years until I started doing 4x3 or 4x4 once or twice a week, through the winter I did a lot of hr, z2 training which I believe was useless due to my volume being too low. 5 weeks in and my vo2 max has improved and i'm running times I haven't done for nearly 10 years, I find it tough, but I can motivate myself easier than doing a 5k, even though I do over a 5k when I do 4x4, I also find recovery no problem now, I think that's just improvement in general fitness,
A lot of video's suggest it is indeed 4x4' but the rest between is 3 minutes! Can you shed more light on the recovery time?
In my experiance half the work time for rest is just enough. So 4mins on 2 mins off. That keeps it's intense and gets you working again before your cold.
You want to do four minutes rest. If you cut the resting time you’re not doing the interval hard enough.
Yup. It’s totally dependent on the pace you run - what recovery is needed
Vo2 work needs longer rest 1:1 ratio not 2:1
I think 3min brake is even what was recommended in formula. I love 4×4 and I am doing this for a long long time :)
Great stuff as ever. I was concerned at first as it seemed to contradict the tri model in your book were you are moving towards goal pace but then you brought that up further into your video so all good.
Yup yup. This kind of training belongs in late base or early Support training and then it fits into the triphasic model.
what a amazing video congtas man🤝🏻
Thank you 🙌
Great video!
Thanks!
I am a man who until recently only lifted weights. I started to run because of a wrist injury. I weight 101kg @ 185cm.
Three weeks ago I started running. Today I did a 4*4 but rested only 3 minutes between the intervalls.
Warmup, 14 km/h for 4 minutes, 10 km/h for 3 minutes, 14 km/h for 4 minutes, 10 km/h for 3 minutes, 14 km/h for 4 minutes, 10 km/h for 3 minutes and last run 14,5 km/h the first two minutes, then 15 km/h for 1,5 minutes and last 30 seconds in 17,5 km/h.
That was a really intense workout for me. I have no idea however what heartrate I had. Is it worht getting a fitness watch or can I just go by feel? I know that today I could possibly push a bit harder and get the pace up to 14,5 in all intervalls but then maybe I wouldn't be able to sprint the last 30 seconds.
I find it odd that I can run this "good" already. Can the weight lifting help that much in general condition? Is the regular workouts I do making my mind able to pus myself?
How much improvements is actually being able to push yourself vs actually getting in better shape?
Is it recommendable to add a sprint until totally exhausted?
I mean when I lift weights, it's not always advisable to reach failure. And in weight training I see a lot of beginners who just don't push themself hard enough.
Getting in better shape is far better than just pushing harder. And no doing sprints until you’re completely exhausted doesn’t make a whole lot of sense. You can run at full speed and keep it to eight seconds and get the best of your speed development and then repeat it without burnout.
Not Norwegian specifically. Owen Anderson described these and many similar workouts in great detail (and lactate monitors btw) in 2013 in his seminal work Running Science.
Dude. It’s the name of the workout. Just like a “Yasso 800” is, well, a “Yasso 800”. You can do it or not, like it or not, but this is a protocol for that workout should you choose to do it
Hi Run Elite! I did my first 4x4 but I modified it to 3 min x4, 4 minutes would kill me 😅
That’s fine. It’s a stepping stone. A very good one. Whatever it takes to make progress :) nice job
I read somewhere the breaks between the 4 minute running intervals could be only 3 mins long.
On another point, it may be feasible to train above VO2max by taking baking soda before the workout to create an alcaline buffer, thus delaying the acidification of the body due to lactate.
Yes true. 3 mins is good. I have my runners start with 4 and then work down to 3. I have one inner doing it with 2 even
The prescription for 4x4 pace between 5k and 10k race pace confuses me. If I can run for 20 minutes at 5k pace, how is 16 minutes split between 4 intervals over half an hour at a slightly slower pace going to be a 95% effort?
Great topic as ususal coach!!!! McMillan also prescribes a 6 week block of this called speed development, but in actuality it is just maintenance. One day of 20 second pickups x 16 with 1 minute recovery embedded into a 8 mile workout a week.. The second workout of week prescribes Vo2 max with invtervals that get longer up to the 4-6 vo2 max reps over 6 week period and jog rest. What is strange is McMillian kind of goes into a hybrid model in his main training components. It starts out basing runs on time then as the plan progresses it goes to mileage and paces....Your really break all these top coaches down, they are working in the tri-phasic model, but all with different spins on them. My case is strange I have been in a 7 month conditioning/base phase since restarting running and now going into 6 week block of exactly what you have perscribed. During the base phase I ended up hitting 50 miles a week with hill strides and flat strides, and now in 2nd week of 6 week block of non specific training before going into a 24 week 1/2 marathon buildup. Plan on doing some 5k fitness tests after 6 week block to see if I can get back into sub 19 shape leading into my 1/2 buildup....This is all sort of new b/c my environment has changed since all my training is in mountains now. Went from maybee 200 vert a week in 2018 to about 4 thousand feet a week which is a lot for me now.... Yes 5 year break....!!!!!! but im back have some big things I want to hit in next 2.5 years leading to my 50 year old mark....Age is just a number like a time you run on a clock. I still have some very lofty goals, but I know I will hit them..
45-50 miles a week held for 2.5 months now and will be going up again in my 24 week 1/2 block.....yeah
McMillain’s program covers a lot of good stuff. I like the short pickups, I just call those strides. And yes many successfully systems have a lot in common. It’s also true that many popular systems are only ok because they focus on what works in the short term for many runners. But planning out longer term is a good idea but much more difficult to do with a cookie cutter plan…which is unfortunately perhaps, what many runners are looking for
Good video. Thanks for explaining. I was confused by your pacing explanation. You said 4x4 is a VO2 Max workout and if I’m correct you run at your VO2 Max pace which you said is a pace you can sustain for 10-12 minutes (so faster than 5k pace). But for pacing for non elite or pros you say it should be between 5k and 10k pace. Wondering if I missed something. If it’s VO2 Max should you be running the 4 minute on at faster then 5k pace?
VO2max pace and race pace are not indicative of each other. One Runner may be able to run a 12:45 5K while another runner may run a 25 minute 5K. So using 5k race pace is only a very rough estimate. A 10 to 12 minute race, however far one travels in that time, is more accurate.
I want to see someone actually do one of these workouts and not just talking about it and not just one round. I have a feeling it sounds great on paper but hearing about 50 years old and up doing these I imagine seeing a bunch of people barely moving thinking they are actually doing something the last 2 minutes. Would love to see a video from the actual experiments they talk about. If someone has a video please post the link.
I have a few of my runners doing this during their support training, a 48 year old amazing woman, and 53 year old super fast guy. Both marathoners
@@runelitecoach but that makes sense when you said marathoners and elite runners. I’d like to see how the average 50-year-old which they talk about in studies could even do this workout just curious as I’ve been trying to implement it but having trouble getting to the four minute mark without stopping completely or going super slow, maybe I am starting too fast? I am no where near a marathoner but could run 5 miles although maybe 8 to 10 minutes per mile at best. When people like Attia and Rhonda Patrick talk about it in the studies that were done it is just hard to imagine these people could do it at all. I imagine most elite level and marathon runners are already at a great VO2Max.
@@KBradAdamsI was thinking the same thing. I just turned 50 I guess I do moderate exercise. There no way I could do that. I was thinking of starting with 1x4’s and building from there
@@jboy4023 yeah I’ve started it a few times pulled a calf! Round 3 at the end. Waited a month round 2 pulled it again! I might go to 2 minutes on 3 off and see if I can work up to 3 mins work then four but the last minute will be barely moving I am sure
Agree. 4x4 is hard. 4minutes max is mental especially the next 3.
Yes. Tough for sure way to go trying it
I’m a 43 male, always been a slow runner, trying the 4x4 for the longevity benefits of improved VO2 max. I take long rests though so I’m in the variation. My problem with it is that I’m not improving, in spite of the fact that every workout is absolutely miserable. I hate them. So I feel like I’m working hard. I probably do it 1.5 times a week on average but now aiming for 2. Why am I not getting better?
I listened to a podcast where several coaches discussed different protocols. Talk about multiple research studies that used different times, and all were similar in their results. Sets of 30 seconds on, 30 off, even 20/40, to 60/60. 2 min on/off to this 4x4.
I'm trying to get my 64 year old legs some speed, so doing two sets of 30/30 x 6 with 5 min jog between. On is fast....
Also need short steep hill repeats, hill bounds... best bang for your buck.
Nice video, but my understanding is that 4 min work set, followed by 3 minute rest.
Yes true. There’s a bunch in the comments in this thread I often have my runners start with 4, then 3, then 2 for some. The standard protocol is 3
Pretty Pretty Pretty good runner
Yup
This is not only way to increase vo2 max , sprint interval training and even 50min cardio at 75% of max heart rate 3 times a week also increase vo2 max.. even regular cardio at slow pace also improve it
As stated in the video, there are many protocols. I didn’t claim that this is the only or even the best. It’s simply a report on this particular workout
Any thoughts on building a base prior to including such workouts as the 4x4? I bring this up as I had to take 4 months off after an injury, I’m “was” a moderate runner averaging 40-45 miles per week. I guess the question is whole long does it take to come back after 4 months off, and build the base? Thanks in advance
Would be better to additionally link the CERG/ntnu 4x4 training..
At around the 13 minute mark just doesn’t make sense. You mentioned running a marathon at 85% of your VO2 max. If you have 2 runners one has a VO2 max of 40 and the other has a VO2 max of 60 I’m betting on the higher VO2 max one every time.
Here’s another thought experiment one has a VO2 max pace of 12mph they can maintain 75% (9mph) of that pace for a marathon. The other didn’t do as much VO2 max work and had a VO2 max pace of 10 mph but could maintain 85% (8.5mph) of that pace. The first is running a sub 3hr marathon beating the other by 10 minutes.
If I’m able to maintain 85% of 50 vs 85% of 49.9. The first one is higher.
The higher you start with VO2 max the less you are going to benefit. If you’re already high 50’s or higher you won’t get the same results as someone with a VO2 max of 40 or even 50.
Given all else being the same, sure I’d bet on the higher vo2max too. But everything else is not the same. Running economy is far more important. That’s why cyclists and XC skiers with higher vo2max scores can’t compete with top runners. Because they haven’t conditioned their running efficiency and economy.
@@runelitecoach if you’re only comparing elite athletes VO2 max becomes less of a factor because they all already have a very high VO2 max.
Now if you take the average person with a VO2 max of 40 and through training they bring it up to 50. They are going from 10-12 minute miles to 7-9 minute miles. That’s a massive improvement.
You could the most efficient runner in the world perfect stride, everything. If they have a VO2 max of 20 they’re not going to be a fast runner for anything aerobic.
If VO2 is the rate at which we use oxygen then, unless we significantly limit the volume of air we inhale, the amount of O2 we breathe shouldn't impact VO2 by too much. Since O2 is 21% of air volume, a 10% reduction in air intake would result in only a 2% decrease in oxygen. Does this support the idea of nasal breathing?
The amount of oxygen you inhale vs the amount you use are not the same. VO2 is the amount you are using
That's precisely my point, hence the question.
Is this to get faster at a mile or a marathon or will it be a good workout for any distance ?
17:07 - according to Blummenfelt's coach that is false. Reducing your body weight will most likely decrease your vo2max as a result of reducing your base metabolic rate and overall oxygen consumption due to loss of body mass. Blummenfelt weighs around 80kg for reference
By definition, weight is the fastest and best way to increase vo2max. By definition.
Of course if you do that through calorie restriction it will backfire. Just eat healthy foods high in fiber, high and water high enzymes, high carbohydrate, low and fat, low and salt unprocessed, Whole Foods .
@@runelitecoachno it's not. If you assume that by losing weight you lose only fat then yes but we all know it's very hard to cut only fat (except if you are obese and then it makes sense) but for the average normal BMI athlete this will not yield a higher vo2max in absolute terms. How much fat can you cut while doing an endurance sport? It surely has diminishinng or near zero-returns for well versed runners who are already fat adapted and burn through calories like crazy. Therefore decreasing your fat free mass will in turn decrease your vo2max and this is also demonstrated in the Gotan et al study
Yes it is. Vo2max is measured in ml KG min. So it’s in the measurement of vo2max. And losing fat is quite easy. But also it doesn’t have to be from just fat it can be from water retention and salt, or mucous plaque as well. Point is reducing weight improves VO2max the quickest.
I've incorporated a 4x4 session once a week alongside my Z2 and weekly short hill sprints. I've noticed however that my VO2 goes down a point every time. It also does after races. Why is this? Globally my V02 has been stable over the last few years. Im using Garmin watch.
It’s a solid training effect.
Also your watch likely isn’t accurate. It’s using training metrics to estimate. Not measuring directly
Hey how do you know about the speed percentage. i can't really understand my body in those kind of speed percentages.I rather go all out or start slow.can you help me with that.just show me the guidelines about those percentages
Perhaps someone can help me with this.
Had pneumonia a few months ago so it might explain my HR zone struggle to some degree, maybe the heart is compensating for that.
I've been trying this method " Norwegian 4x4"
When doing the zone 2 warm up I basically have to do a brisk walk or I go into zone 3!
Then I run in zone 4 right at the top around 4.9 for four mins.
The problem is I find myself in zone 3 alot trying to get my heart rate back down to zone 2 usually takes about 60 seconds.
In the end this felt somewhat moderate difficulty I felt I still had a fair amount in the tank.
If anyone can give me some advice that would be great.
Have you ever seen a carryover of something like the Norwegian method on an Assault Bike carrying over to running?
It doesn’t hurt that’s for sure. But it’s cross training. If you want to be a better runner it’s best to run. So depends on what your goals are
NCAA women's5/10k champion Cross trains alot due to history of injuries.
Done right it can help and strengthen your legs for faster paced running.
The fastest 400's 3x 53.5 with 10 m recovery in practice I ran was after a semester of leg endurance exercise 5x 15 reps of Quad/ hamstrings alternating for all 5 sets.
And 5x5 heavy squats.
Strength and lactate clearance is what going to help the most .
My muscles were able to clear lactate faster and I didn't fatigue in the last 100m as I usually did before that semester.
Increase strength but not body weight and you will run faster for all events.
It is not clear to me how long to wait to perform each 2x4 or 4x4 interval. How much time is recommended between each interval?
I think its three minutes, you need three minutes as you dont run at threshold but a little higher at around 5b - vo2 superthreshold.
@@johndavies7626 you are the best. Thanks 🙏
3-4 mins. Work down to 3 but can start at 4 as it’s a tough workout
Loved the video! Do you have a public strava account?
I don’t post on there, but it is linked with my COROS. So I may or may not upload my runs there, but normally my races and long runs are on there.
You could do Billat's 30x30 workout instead. I think it is much more effective and easier to acumulate more time on vo2 max.
You could do hundreds of workouts. This is a report on the Norwegian 4x4 not a full protocol for training season
As its much faster its also a higher injury risk due to the neuromuscular load doing 30 x 30. Running for 30sec hard needs to be likely atleast 15sec/km + faster than ones 12min vVo2max. So the 4 x 4 as discussed still has good merit. Id say hamstring injury risk is higher with 30x30 vs 4x4. Cheers 😊
I've been doing a lot of zone 2 on a bike and what I found that on last couple of 5k's races I've done that I'm running out of breath before I'm running out of legs - So looking at this workout to pull this up and create a separation between Lactate threshold and v02 max. - One thing I'm not sure about is that you said for non-elite runner's that a V02 max workout would be below your 5k pace - Is that right? I'm running a 5k in 24 minutes so to me that's a lactate threshold run - I'm thinking a V02 max interval should be slightly faster?
I say “below” meaning “faster “. So yes they’d be faster
Can you provide me with scientific reference that underpins your statement about minimum of 7 minutes being needed for a warm-up?
I have an entire video dedicated to that topic.
@@runelitecoach thanks, but that doesn't answer my question. The only thing I was able to fid on your channel is hard war-up before 5k. I asked for a reference..
@@runelitecoach your video is not a scientific reference.
Do lots of performance enhancing drugs to get fast like the Norwegians. They did the same thing with cross country skiing.
Ok bro 😎
At the beggining you say Norwegian don’t go past treshold often. This workout seems way past treshhold ?
Exactly, Norwegian elites never do 4x4 intervals
They also don’t do this workout often. As in most elite systems, the majority of the running is done, easy, and some of the top Norwegians right now, are doing a large volume at just slower than threshold pace. But this video was not describing an entire training season, it’s just highlighting one specific workout that you can choose to do or not.
Do u stop or walk slow during the break ? Ty
Jog slow
Base training improve my vo2 and lactate too?
A small amount but that’s not the focus. Those aren’t the limiters performance so it doesn’t matter. Check out my videos on those not being the limiters of performance or read the chapter on this in the Run Elite book
@@runelitecoach Thannnks
Welcome
Jakob would cover exactly mile in those 4 minute intervals
Yeah pretty close. Maybe just shy. Speedy guy for sure
@@runelitecoachJakob never uses 4x4 intervals in his training, I am sure you know this.
Agree, he doesnt. He uses 10x3 min, 6x6 min , 10x1000 etc, or shorter like 200-800 repeats. This is misinforming. And I am Norwegian , where 4x4 min was popular, but this was not specific part of the Norwegian treshold model@@sunnlands
32 minute workout and it's hard.
Only 16 minutes is hard though
Yup. And also it’s not THAT hard after your first interval or even second. It gets more taxing as you go.
Norwegians are killing it everyhere...except in the olympics.
Haha 🤣. Well Jacob ran gutsy that’s for sure. I think he killed it. Just wasn’t Olympic champion
😂
I'm thankful VO2max isn't measured in Gallon/pound/min...
You can covert it to that easily if you like… but liters would be more appropriate and easier
You could use ounces of oxygen per cell per day too. Doesn’t matter. As long as we all agree on whatever arbitrary measurement is used
@@runelitecoach You don't really appreciate jokes really, do you? 😆
The 4 by 4 is only a research protocol.
No Norwegian elites train this way.
Ok. And this is a report on the “Norwegian 4x4 protocol” do what you like
@@runelitecoachthe point is that you are kind of deceiving your YT audience when you present the 4x4 intervals as something the Ingebrigtsens brothers or other Norwegian elites would do in traing. 4x4 Intervals is a concept from Norwegian researchers, but tellingly it is not used by elites, basically because it is too hard and not something that can be repeated three (or six) times a week.
@@sunnlandsWhat do they do?
@@cochise6345 threshold sessions like 20x400m with short rest, 10x3min, 5x6min, with 1 min rest. Pace never faster than 5k-15k pace even for the short intervals. Intensity controlled by lactate measurements. One VO2max session each week in the form of 45s hill sprints x20
@@sunnlands In addition, the 4x4 protocol, which is used in research and treatment of heart disease by the Cardiac Exercise and Research Group at the Norwegian University of Science and Technology, uses three minute recoveries, not four minute recoveries.
4 minutes uphill running
4 times
4 minutes break
You'll be drowing for air
Almost.
great content mate really informative. just to clarify. as someone that runs and does 4x4 for health and enjoyment a couple of times a week . i dont need to be nailing myself doing the 4 intervals ?