@@AlexLeonidas sitting hip huggers are my go to. They're basically dumbbell rows but you can position yourself much better to get the perfect rear delt activation.
How does bent over rows translate to this? I only have dumbbells and I know when I do them it doesn't really hit my delts, but maybe it's because I tuck my elbows. Is it a tradeoff, or does the elbow out bit just add delts usage? Tyvm for whatever answer, I'm new to all of this.
@@bigggmoustache8868 I use rows for developing the rear delts. I can see clear definition between segments six and seven of delts, which form the posterior portion and insert into the scapula. However, I pull rather heavier than the other lifts. 50 lb, 75 lb, 95 lb. Rows are pretty much the strongest angles of pull, though pullups are ideal for lats (humans are really good at pullups). Isolation rear delt flies allow you to reduce the weight and still target the region preferentially. The benefit of rows is you can forget about details and see great effect. I would recommend using at least 25lb-40 lb dumbbells, if that works as a starting point. For technique, performing a standard row is effective. Adding supination of the wrist through the line of pull targets multiple fibers of the rear delts as well as a bit of the lateral delts. Hope this info is useful.
I started doing wide grip (45 degree) rows because of this video, and my shoulder mobility has gotten immensely better way faster than I ever imagined. Such an awesome exercise for balancing out the shoulders.
Doing rows with your arms out wider is key. You’re absolutely right and it doesn’t get talked about enough. Rows for lats are overrated, but rows for rear delts (doing it your way as an opposite technique to bench press) is very underrated.
Same... getting rear delts to light up using all the standard mentioned exercises I find real hard. But good ol rows with flaring out the elbows wide makes em scream.
100% agree, there's so much talk around "feeling rows in the lats" but I've always treated them as a rear delt and upper back exercise. I find that it works better with the strength curve of rows anyways, as you can really overload and smash your rear delts and traps by pulling all the way back with some momentum, and personally I find the strength curve to be less extreme with a wider grip than a narrow one.
@@sonicwave32 you would feel them if you didnt have such sh$tty form. You should bring the bar to your belly and squeeze it at the top. If you do them without cheating you will feel them a lot.
Agree with you all. I do find rows with arms close to the sides and pulling to the stomach area works the lats however. But flared at around 45 degrees to the body shifts things to more upper back and rear delts. Flaring higher works the rest delts still but traps more I think.
I did OHP weighted dips and close grip bench for 8 months this year and my shoulders were starting to look pretty broad. But 3 weeks ago I starting isolating my side+rear delts and my shoulders are actually starting to look capped. I'd say definitely isolate your side and rear delts but never stop progressive overloading the OHP as thats whats going to cause the most growth
I don't think that makes much sense physiologically. I mean you can combine them very well, but a stimulus is a stimulus and an isolation excerice does a better job than an excerice that only works that muscle slightly relative to other muscle groups like triceps and front delts which will give up sooner probably than your sides.
3 weeks is not enough time to build tissue, especially after 8 years. All that happened here is you got a good pump and thought you were building side delt.
I absolutely love band face pulls, I've been doing them since I heard NH talking about them last year. 12 sets per week at 20+ reps have totally blown up my delts. I feel like it's also a really healthy movement for the shoulders.
@@slkalmuhairi I'm not worried about progressive overload. My goal in this case is nucleus overload, where basically I'm accumulating a shitload of volume over time. If one wanted to increase the load they could either use progressively heavier bands, add reps, add sets or simply use a cable machine instead where you can control the weight.
started my gym membership a month ago and for the first time in my life started doing standing overhead press. Iam just at a mere 25kg for 10reps but boy do i love the movement. There just is something unique about the feeling i have doing them that makes me grind to the last drop of power :D Great to hear they rock as a movement, cheers
Lol you think he's a natural? Are you blind son? Here are three signs that shows he's not natty. His constant claim of being natural, his unnatural "puffy" or swole muscles as well as his body being full of liver spots. What we got here is yet another YT fake natty. Shocking! XD
I see people bigging up Lu raises and must say I agree. My lateral raises were a bit up/down and just never went anywhere for me. Switched to lu raises and been progressing consistently and much stronger than I ever was at lateral raises. The negative seems to be the most important part and due to the distance you can’t bs the negative with a lu raise like a lateral raise without smashing weight into your thigh. Similarly you can’t cheat a lu raise, just give it leg drive.
@@randomnumbers84269 how is it damaging if you can’t even lift a ton of weight using the Lu raise. Like OP said, you can’t cheat it like you can with conventional lateral raises.
What kind of grip should you have when you do Lu raises? My shoulders pop uncomfortably with a paraller to the floor grip. If I turn my palms forward the popping eases but then I assume it will target more of the front delts?
@@randomnumbers84269 experiment with your grip, and also be mindful of your shoulder blade location. Often times I find that my right shoulder blade (main hand) tends to cave inwards towards my chest, make sure to play with keeping those blades nice and tight against the body as if you were doing proper pull ups. Speaking of, pull ups (diff grip variations) can help a ton with shoulder health and mobility. Deadweight hangs from the bar have helped my shoulder too, I know I’m giving a lot of smaller tips but ultimately you need to find what leverages work best for you and where exactly your problem areas are. Best of luck.
@@randomnumbers84269 the way you grip has a very very small effect on how you actually perform them. I would say go down weight if they’re popping, moving with minimal load is going to encourage healing way more than avoiding moving in certain areas with more weight. They can be a great tool for healing your shoulders if you are patient with them.
I like videos like this because it illustrates personal experience and sends a good message. Not a clickbait, viewsfarming videos how some people try to "change the industry" or whatever they think they're doing by attempting to bring "revolutionary" or "new technique" or "brand new way" how to train your delts and telling everyone in the thumbnail how they are doing something wrong. So, props to you, man for keeping it real.
Doing high frequency and high volume side raises is by far the best way to grow the side delts ! Mixing the modified cable version for lengthened bias with regular ones is great.
Really interesting. I almost never isolate side delts and feel somewhat guilty about it. But I do a ton of weighted inverted rows, Handstand pushups, and rear delt work, so now I know I'm good!
Dylan Mcknight is one of the best examples of how having underdeveloped side delts as a natural is actually benefit aesthetically. You either go for the wide tube arms look, or you go for the huge tricep insertion look. Dylan McKnight's relatively narrow shoulders make his arms look huge
Alex, I owe it to you for my shoulders being my best upper body part because I first heard about Band Face Pulls from your channel years ago. Been doing them 2x per week for several years in addition to OHP and I'm still amazed at how effective they are for hypertrophy. Honestly no need to to do Upright Rows or Side Lateral Raises and risk a serious shoulder injury, especially now that I'm getting older.
Much love OG!! By now we've all experienced the wonderful gains that band face pulls have to offer. Definitely the easiest variation on the joints too.
@@milosristic8378 From 1:33 - 1:46 you can see the type of bands Alex uses along with the form. If you're starting out, start with those thinner & lighter bands like the 5 - 15 lb and work your way up. These should be done for higher reps.
@@lolfirepoisonftl I've done cable face-pulls with 35-40kg for 12 reps, but I'm still a beginner, do I need the band of the similar resistance or can I get a lighter one?
@Speedy McMuffinStuffins Depends on your goals. Lu’s open up the shoulder girdle and free range of motion while facepulls stabilize the shoulder girdle and prevent injury.
I've been doing them for quite some time, but i got a pinch on my shoulder outside of training and the exercise didn't feel good. I'll cut the ROM to side raises and will gradually raise back
started doing facepulls following a shoulder injury. doing quite a bit of research for rehab, I learned the importance of the rear delt to prevent shoulder impingement, correct rounded shoulders which chest work can cause if not balanced out and general health of the shoulder.Basically the surgeons I saw advocated surgery , but research showed options to rehab the joint,and I now have regained about 90% of shoulder function,which is better than predicted for surgery
@@fataheyable I can tell you about my experience. I did external rotator cuff exercises, focus on weight with less repetitions. The other exercises don't matter that much, but I did shoulder press to use more load and some lateral raises. I'd say to you now with the information in this video: With face pulls, you will hit rear delts, rotator cuff and mid delts. So maybe try doing shoulder presses + rows with that diagonal position of the arms as shown in this video + face pulls. And the magic touch: DO NOT train your backs, chest and shoulders on the same day or in consecutive days. Give this articulation some time to rest, at least one day (I noticed the difference with one week)! Avoid behind-the-neck puldowns and upright rows. Prefer less repetitions overall for upper body exercises (around 6-10 is optimal, but it is acceptable until 12). Prefer dumbell over barbell for chest exercises (it gives you control over the angle of your hands and arms). If you really want to do everything you can, I'd recommend some stretching sessions and flexibility exercises, like lying with your chest on the ground and moving your hands (and arms, of course) in a circle, from behind your butt to above your head, until you reach form failure, without letting them hit the ground (your thumbs must touch each other at the beggining and at the end of the movement), like a butterfly. In your daily life, avoid excessive thumb usage (yes, I'm talking about smartphones). I had a terrible pain after pipetting in the laboratory for the whole afternoon. Your shoulders must also remain in a neutral position. So do not use your elbows to lie down on your bed, and keep the forearm supports on your chair as low as possible, so your shoulders do not stay up. I know you might have solved your problem at this point, but if this can ever reach someone in need... it took me a lot of research and trial + error to learn it.
@@slowtalkerI worked in a lab for 2+ years. The countertop work messes you up big time. I was doing a lot of face pulls, neck extensions and reverse hypers to correct hunching over all day. I have to add that I'm also pretty tall.
@@NotAP05 yep, i do them as my finish movement of a superset, i do presses with ez bar curl, upright rows, triceps extensions behind the back and finish with side laterals with dumbells, for 3 months my shoulder and triceps gained alot, its all bout the effort
Close grip benching is what has helped build big shoulders. Also rowing with 45 degree tucked elbows. I can really feel my shoulders starting to give out a little earlier than my triceps when getting towards the end of my bench routine. I'm 161 pounds and can close grip paused 345. My philosophy in training is to just put up huge numbers and gains in size will follow.
This video has a really cool vibe to it, with the different shades, the background music and your energy in general! Plus thanks for the great thoughts, will implement it in my training routine!
I agree Alex, OHP really made my shoulders & upper traps explode. However, due to my leverages my triceps do a lot during the presses. I do laterals cause of the different movement pattern.
This vid is so true. I noticed that my shoulders never really grew until I started taking weighted inverted rows seriously. I started doing them to work around an injury, and just never stopped because they made such a noticeable difference in my shoulder size.
I have been practicing my pull ups & can do 10 fairly easy now. I was always bad at them but it's becoming a reality. My technique on the bench is getting better too. Another thing I've struggled with.
Similar opinion here. I had a mostly strength focus this past year and basically never did side lateral raises but I upped my facepull/rear delt volume by a lot, especially with bands to balance with all the pressing I've been doing. I have the best looking side delts and overall delt appearance in general I've ever had and they blew up considerably. I also firmly believe the rear delts round out the appearance a ton and prevent the slouched look, and lots of people neglect them in general.
High rep seated dumbbell presses and heavy ass barbell ohp are my main movements as well. Also, high rep barbell upright rows. I feel my delts more on upright rows than on any type of lateral raise. I guess it sometimes all depends on which exercises you can build a great mind-muscle connection.
Great info on the face pulls. Regarding Presses: IME, "Presses for delts" is 2nd on the "results depend on the person". 1st is Pullovers (Chest? Lats? Serratus? Nothing?). I don't doubt that presses work the SIDE Delts well for some people. But "Presses build the side delts WELL" is not the norm. I don't doubt they work the front delts-the humerus is externally rotated, which puts the front delts in the most direct line of force. The point-I don't think Presses are "overhyped" for delts, I think they are "overhyped" for SIDE delts. There is a counter-intuitive truth about effectiveness of particular exercises: people who have the best (in absolute terms) body parts almost always respond to the "Go to". Arnold Flat BB bench for pecs, St. BB curl for biceps. Platz squats for quads. Haney reg BB rows for lats. The counter-intuitive truth though, is that part of the reason the basic exercises does so much in these cases, is that the body part is "wired in", has long muscle belly length, and often, is paired with "just okay" surrounding muscles (just okay, relatively). An EXTREME example of "don't listen to the people with great or easy bodyparts" is calves. Some people with great calves don't even train them. That doesn't mean, the answer to building weak calves is to not train them. In practical terms, used the basics when you start. If they keep working, keep using them. But if you have a weak BP, don't DROP the basics, but 1. find the variant that works best for you and 2. use isolation exercises to hit the area you want. Physiologically-weak points get relatively worse if not focused on, not better. If Flat BB Bench hardly works your pecs, but blows your triceps/front delts up, this will get worse, not better if changes aren't made, as your body will recruit the muscle/portion of muscle that is BEST able to perform a movement *in your own case*.
Interesting. Personally shoulders are my most stubborn muscle group, so i've decided on the meathead approach of spamming lateral raises and upright rows. I don't feel like my front and side delts get hit optimally with presses, although it's also my experience that rows at 45 degrees destroy the rear delts.
I always struggled to feel my delts on presses, then I switched to a seated dumbbell press with a high incline, and it felt so much better. I got more range of motion, a more comfortable bar path, and more activation of the delts
Gymnastics rings have been great for my shoulder development too, they’re bigger now than when I did only regular gym exercises like side laterals In the front swing on rings and a few skills like front uprise you pull the rings above your head like a face pull, and these are all movements that make up a majority of the training volume! And that’s not even taking into account all the handstand work My side and rear delts have never looked better, rings training is understated imo
I think this applies very well to older athletes who want to protect their lifting longevity. I have a damaged shoulder and it has pretty much killed my ability to bench as heavy as I'd like. And laterals aggravate the hell out of it.
Personally, ive grown my (lateral) delts mostly by doing seated lateral raises in an extremely controlled manner (thanks to Scooby1961).; only recently have i started to focus more on OHP (both barbell, standing, and dumbbell, seated) because i have neglected that movement so much. Plus i just like to get in a bit more variation and it's fun and i like what im doing - and at the end of the day thats what will really get me the biggest gains possible and not whether something is "optimal" or not
With your cable setup, it's easy to incorporate cable lateral raises. I prefer cable laterals over dumbbells because of the constant tension on the delts. Egyptian laterals or leaning to one side laterals with cables are best.
Shoulders can take a lot of volume and frequency, you can in fact design an upper body program that train shoulders everyday. Apart from isolation biceps/triceps exercises, all upper body movements can be modified to put more emphasis on shoulders, and the shoulders can take it. Even during isolation biceps movements you can incorporate some shoulder work, because the biceps also help front delts flex the shoulder joint, so lifting your elbows during a curl work some shoulders without compromising biceps work. I do that in incline curls, both shoulders and biceps are fully stretched at the bottom and they both get a great activation with a slight shoulder flexion. It even works in strict curls: Instead of just bending elbows, I curl the bar all the way up to my forehead. Yes, it also works shoulders but the increased range of motion works the biceps a lot especially during the eccentric. It even helps you get a better mind muscle connection.
Shoulders are my favorite area as well, and I have decent sized shoulders. I don't do any isolation exercises for them. Wide pull ups, barbell rows, overhead presses are all I do for them. Somehow I have always felt that pulls and presses work the lateral delts pretty well. Alex has confirmed that here.
Wow that is pretty much me, I've overhead pressed a lot and I've done a lot of rows with the same grip as my benchpress and my rear delts are not lagging behind at all.
OHP is the fucking KING. I'm a combat athlete (kickboxer, grappler) - OHP with kettlebells have made my shoulders bulletproof and improved all metrics: strength, power, speed. Cleaning, pressing, push-pressing, jerking, snatching... all without the nervous system recovery demands that heavy, bilateral barbell pressing would entail. I'm pressing more than people who outweigh me by 30-40 lbs, and it doesn't interfere with my sports specific training! Honestly, I got a lot of these ideas from Alex and although my goals are very different from most of y'all, the principles are universally true. I'm systematically getting stronger, more powerful and athletic because of the knowledge here. Blending calisthenics now too - focusing on rear delts, rowing in general, and lots of pullups. Relentless improvement never ends.
always happy to hear what you say about these topics and your fairly "unconventional" methods, really shows that there's not just one single way that leads to success. As for me, I went over to "demolishing my delts to the great beyond" as you put it, by doing some kind of lateral raise pretty much everyday I'm in the gym. :P Lateral raises, one sided cable raises, Lu raises.. feels really great for me, and regeneration doesn't seem to be much of an issue. Mind though, I'm by far not as huge as you and really trying to gain some size in this area.
Yeah, in my experience overhead presses absolutely DO build up the middle and to a lesser extent the rear delts. Obviously you should do isolation work (ESPECIALLY for the rear delts), but the overhead press is a great overall builder for the shoulders.
* calisthenic movement taught me two bodyweight lateral delt exercises, one using a wall and other using the Floor, both you press, one is placing your elbow and forearm to the wall, you place them like if you were resting and you press only with that arm, and the other exercise is like the position of a lateral ab hold but use your palm and press with that arm. Another good and healthy shoulder exercise is using barbells as if they were Indian clubs and preform swings, this is also excellent for warming up. Resistance bands are also nice.
I don't do laterals because they hurt, and not in the building muscle kinda way. Like joints and issues. I do different shoulder exercises like shoulder presses, overhead presses and rear delt reverse pec deck work.
If one wants to know if a muscle is activated in a compound lift all they have to do is some isolation work in that muscle then attempt the compound lift. Work mid and back delts before doing dumbell presses. notice how hard it is to keep the weights stable.
one thing that is super underrated for side delts is high volume overhead pressing. it has done wonders for my delts, and even fixed my shoulder pain! super light weight, close-grip ohp is amazing
High rep seated dumbbell presses and heavy ass barbell ohp are my main movements as well. Also, high rep barbell upright rows. I feel my delts more on upright rows than on any type of lateral raise. I guess it sometimes all depends on which exercises you can build a great mind-muscle connection.
i say whatever weight you'd lateral raise with, just ohp that. i take one of the fixed barbells and just rep it out until my delts are screaming. usually 4x20
I never did lateral raises in my life and people always compliment my shoulders. I only did pushing exercises, lots of pull ups, which I superseted with facepulls
just incase anyone get confuse , this is just his opinion on why he doesnt do lateral raises and instead he do an alternative for side delt , he dont mean everyone should'nt do it. now everyone is different.... muscle mind connection and etc... i for one still love lateral raises the muscle mind connection feels the best.. but ofcourse is important to do some alternate side delt exercise sometimes.. it will feels amazing once a while.. but as always it is all depend on how training plan goes..
I could never grow my rear delts, implemented rear delt rows and within 2 months they grew. I just couldnt get the full contraction on rear delt flys variations and rows did get the best moving patern for my mobility. Eugune Teo has a great video on it.
Simply put, the lateral delts are partially worked in both pressing and row exercises. If you do both with enough weight and volume, the lateral delts will be stimulated enough to grow in size. Specifically, the overhead press and the rear delt row with elbows at 45 degrees give the best bang for the buck in working all three heads.
I fully agree that side delt isolation isn't really necessary. for the past two years , I've been mainly doing overhead press, meadows rows, and banded face pulls. OHP arm path is similar to a y raise which hits the side delts anyway. recently I've been incorporating cable lateral raises and upright rows as I take a break from ohp but yeah ohp def hits side delts hard
Same, I definitely don't do them much anymore just because they seem to pop my front delts more. I find that rear delt work has rounded the rest of the shoulders off very nicely.
A lot of times, you can count on the max activation of any muscle by increasing it's range of motion. For rear delts, stand with your arms straight out to the sides, level with your shoulders and see how far you can move your arms behind you. It won't be much. Now, slightly lower your arms and try it, perhaps as you say, at a 45 deg angle. Notice how you can move them more behind your back increasing the range of motion? IMO it's proof you're right about the angle of your arms while rowing to hit your rear delts. Great information!
I see you use a narrower grip on OHP, is that better for shoulder development? I always "heard" forearms should be perpendicular to the ground at the bottom of the movement.
Paused trap bar OHP is my favorite for side delt activation. Feels like behind the neck pressing without the discomfort. Plus you can pause really low, even lower than with a barbell thus enhancing the weighted stretch !
I think lateral raises are vital for definition,. especially exemplifies the insertion between the delt and.bicep, so how about doing all three movements for optimal shoulder development..rows laterals and heavy press.. that's the key to bowling ball delts
Band face pulls are amazing. I double rope them (clip two tricep pushdown ropes to the band) to maximize range of motion with the external rotation/front double bicep pose at the end. I workout in my garage with no access to cables, but don't feel like I'm missing out at all with this exercise.
I gotta give this a try. My shoulders, especially front tendons are just wrecked from 35 years of lifting. It’s hard to get away from doing anything that works the front, nay, impossible, but maybe more emphasis on the rear will help.
Another cool way of indirectly hitting the side delts! Should have mentioned, I used to do those with dumbbells along snatch grip high pulls (short term).
Personally lateral raises are one of my favorite exercises. I just like them and I get great results from them. Contrary to most opinions I find moderately heavy to heavy 30-40 pounds in the 6-10 rep range are quite nice. Plus it looks sick if you can lift 40’s like their butter.
5:41 I started doing this and got a biceps tendonitis or a shoulder tendonitis, felt a huge pain in my shoulder. I dont recommend this exercise if you have weak- medium shoulders. For me lateral raises are good enough to feel my shoulders weared out and not injure anything. I guess there are different exercises that trigger each one's muscles depending on body structure and existing muscles. Some exercises are good for beginners (like lateral raises => gets the work done and leaves you free of injuries) while other exercises are better to trigger more advanced bodies (like yours perhaps).
Very interesting point of view about the 45-degree angle. I've recently been incorporating face-pulls and couldn't figure out if they were meant to fire my rear and medial delts that much or if it was just my bio-mechanics!
The thing is the lateral head of the deltoid works with both the rear and front delt, so overhead presses and face pulls will still work the lateral head, still think you should work in isolation with them
recently I've been doing reverse flies and chest-supported dumbell rows, really allows me to go all the way up rather than the barbell hitting my stomach and stopping the range of motion
this information confirmed something I've been considering for a long time, that rows are one of the single greatest lifts you can do for your upper body development. It targets lats, all heads of the delt, rhomboids, traps, strengthens grip, and that many muscles of the arm and hand. Yuri rows also keenly strengthen the spinae erectors for upright stabalization in a way horizontally positioned dumbell bench or ground stabalized rows don't. My preferred method is with dumbells and a bench though. I'm not the biggest guy, 5'6" 135lbs, but rows have been one of the single greatest exercises I've used for muscular development, increasing strength, and ensuring i have a though back that can handle a lot of work without pain or stress on my spine. BACK IS KING.
i've never done consistently lateral raises, because my shoulders cracks and pops aggressively when i do them and i feel my tendon grinding against bone when doing them, so i've only done overhead press variations and rows for my shoulders and my side and rear delts are very well grown
Too much weight and improper form. Had the same issue. It's not a big muscle, you don't need a ridiculous amount of weight. The weight shown in this video for example is excessive for someone earlier on
NGL, as a bodybuilder the only direct shoulder work i do is lateral raises and rear delt flys…10-20 reps. 2x a week 5-10 sets each. works wonders for growth
If you do dumbbell overhead press both front and lateral heads will work in a greater extent than doing the barbell overhead press because it forces your front head to lift the bar above our heads with only needing our core to handle the bar, the dumbbells though they let us have more freedom in movement and demands more stability to keep the dumbbell in our hands for both core and shoulders, for rear head i do pull ups, i don't do rows that much but because of deadlifting and doing pull ups i have a nice back and a nice rear delt, im no bodybuilder but im definitely big.
You can obviously grow your delts without doing Lateral raises. You can also walk to another city. At the end of the day, if you want to maximize your deltoids, you need to train each head maximally. That means, presses, front, side and rear delt raises. Most lifters will need ridiculous amount of volumes to grow their shoulders. For me I didn't get delt soreness till I did 12 sets a session (2x a week) of Lateral delt isolation and 7 sets of rear delts.
I had to transition to single arm cable lateral raises after 6 years or working out due to weird pain in the c6/c7 region of the cervical spine. It is a sort of a nerve pain, maybe induced by squatting and doing raises on the same day. I have since stopped doing lateral dumbbell raises and insisted on using the pad when doing powrrlifting bar back squats and the pain is gone, even when I attempt the laterals again, but I am afraid for it to start flaring up again.
@@nextprogram5945 all comes down to your genetics. With calisthenics I prefer to focus on strength and the true beauty behind the movements. If I happen to develop a good body that's a bonus. Calisthenics means beauty in strength. Also I'm not a big guy so my genetic peak if I were to ever shred down would be around 160-170lbs lean. So for me it's just not worth it to go through the dieting. Permanent bear mode for me.
BTN presses also recruit even more side delt than traditional standing/ seated OHP. If you dont enjoy laterals, BTN’s should do a good job at recruiting the side delts if you enjoy pressing
You are absolutely right. I like doing high pulls after heavy trap work, that way my side delts limit me as much as my traps. But I actually had to stop because I'm trying to hammer the farmers walks, and believe it or not, farmers walks smoke all of your delts because they really fire hard to hold your arms in socket while everything is moving around. That, and you are trying to pull the implements, or dumbbells away from your legs. It's like a side delt weighted stretch, existential threat/irradiation superf***
Interesting and similar to my experience. In the past i found laterals didnt do much. I got more shoulder size buy doing heavy powercleans and pushpresses as well as snatches. I use to get sore shoulder/rotator cuff issues when i would bench heavy, so i started to high rep FacePulls to strengthen the external rotators. This eliminated the shoulder pain from bench pressing and to my suprise my rear delts looked alot better as well as my side delts and more of a rounder 3D shoulder look. Also my bench press went up. I agree with everything you said 👍
That is probably the experience of 95% of Bodybuilders. I´m sorry but AlphaDestiny just seems to be gifted in the delt area. (obviously more than arms) But bodybuilding is all about genetics. Take a look at the goat Arnold Schwarzenegger. They did side laterals with shitty form back then, but many heavy presses. Arnold (and many other pros back then) had very underdevelped side and rear delts compared to todays standards. With average delt genetics you will need to do side laterals with proper form and mind muscle connection.
He has good impressive delts for a natural lifter mate. Especially when you could still see he has decent size even in his shredded state, that's when you know his shoulders are packed with muscle.
This is good news! I have done laterals but don't love them. I can't imagine having small shoulder if I was OHP 225. I am a long long ways away from that, by about 100 pounds but someday. I also like dumb bell presses starting below shoulder with the plates facing forward rotating to 'normal' in the last 1/4 of the rep. Warming up with them and then moving to heavy OHP feels pretty good. Lateral raises, go run off and pester someone else. - Cheers
I always fucking wondered this!!! My shoulder dysfunction doesn't really seem to be improving yet, so I'm really trying to pick up that rotator cuff work. Facepulls surely would grow the side delts, even if not directly. Though I guess it depends how heavy you reach on the pulls? Such a refreshing take on exercises.
I have never got so much growth like when I started doing elevated lateral cable raises and cheat lateral curls, night and day changing the stress curve of the movements and developing better neuromuscular connection for smaller muscles, each to their own but be careful with the inductive reasoning even more when it's broscience what backs it up.-
I’ve been doing mace swings for a few months, most of the time before heavy presses. Purely anecdotal and might be placebo but my shoulders have been feeling A1. With progressive overload of course too
side delts are activated when you do side delts and holding the weight as if you would pour out water, this is fact, if you do "normal" side raises, it can barely hit side delts, more front or back delts, depending on your stature and how your shouldrs are joint naturally, i can move my shoulders while doing side raises and it will totally kick in rear or front delts massively, depending on if i turn out my upperarmbone or turn in (in direction to body/core)
It will never be said enough: rear delt training is extremely underrated.
Word! Can never have too much rear delts.
Never
@@AlexLeonidas sitting hip huggers are my go to. They're basically dumbbell rows but you can position yourself much better to get the perfect rear delt activation.
How does bent over rows translate to this? I only have dumbbells and I know when I do them it doesn't really hit my delts, but maybe it's because I tuck my elbows. Is it a tradeoff, or does the elbow out bit just add delts usage? Tyvm for whatever answer, I'm new to all of this.
@@bigggmoustache8868 I use rows for developing the rear delts. I can see clear definition between segments six and seven of delts, which form the posterior portion and insert into the scapula. However, I pull rather heavier than the other lifts. 50 lb, 75 lb, 95 lb. Rows are pretty much the strongest angles of pull, though pullups are ideal for lats (humans are really good at pullups). Isolation rear delt flies allow you to reduce the weight and still target the region preferentially. The benefit of rows is you can forget about details and see great effect. I would recommend using at least 25lb-40 lb dumbbells, if that works as a starting point. For technique, performing a standard row is effective. Adding supination of the wrist through the line of pull targets multiple fibers of the rear delts as well as a bit of the lateral delts. Hope this info is useful.
I started doing wide grip (45 degree) rows because of this video, and my shoulder mobility has gotten immensely better way faster than I ever imagined. Such an awesome exercise for balancing out the shoulders.
This video was posted 3 months ago. I don't believe you...
was already doing them because of a better overall back development. I feel like you dont even need to do other excercises,
It makes sense too thinking about the muscle structure being used at that angle. I'm trying this starting tomorrow and see how I like it
@@OverRule1 how did it go?
@@OverRule1 any updates? 👀
Doing rows with your arms out wider is key. You’re absolutely right and it doesn’t get talked about enough. Rows for lats are overrated, but rows for rear delts (doing it your way as an opposite technique to bench press) is very underrated.
Same... getting rear delts to light up using all the standard mentioned exercises I find real hard. But good ol rows with flaring out the elbows wide makes em scream.
100% agree, there's so much talk around "feeling rows in the lats" but I've always treated them as a rear delt and upper back exercise. I find that it works better with the strength curve of rows anyways, as you can really overload and smash your rear delts and traps by pulling all the way back with some momentum, and personally I find the strength curve to be less extreme with a wider grip than a narrow one.
@@sonicwave32 you would feel them if you didnt have such sh$tty form. You should bring the bar to your belly and squeeze it at the top. If you do them without cheating you will feel them a lot.
Agree with you all. I do find rows with arms close to the sides and pulling to the stomach area works the lats however. But flared at around 45 degrees to the body shifts things to more upper back and rear delts. Flaring higher works the rest delts still but traps more I think.
Niggas always tryna make every exercise under the sun more lat biased
I did OHP weighted dips and close grip bench for 8 months this year and my shoulders were starting to look pretty broad. But 3 weeks ago I starting isolating my side+rear delts and my shoulders are actually starting to look capped. I'd say definitely isolate your side and rear delts but never stop progressive overloading the OHP as thats whats going to cause the most growth
I don't think that makes much sense physiologically. I mean you can combine them very well, but a stimulus is a stimulus and an isolation excerice does a better job than an excerice that only works that muscle slightly relative to other muscle groups like triceps and front delts which will give up sooner probably than your sides.
@@unusveritas4122 compound exercises produce the most growth. No1 ever got a big chest doing fly's 🤷♂️
3 weeks is not enough time to build tissue, especially after 8 years. All that happened here is you got a good pump and thought you were building side delt.
Ohp is probably the most overrated exercise for shoulder mass period
I absolutely love band face pulls, I've been doing them since I heard NH talking about them last year. 12 sets per week at 20+ reps have totally blown up my delts. I feel like it's also a really healthy movement for the shoulders.
how do you increase the load over time?
@@slkalmuhairi Have bands with more resistance, or use the same bands for more reps, or use the same bands and add a slower tempo
@@slkalmuhairi I'm not worried about progressive overload. My goal in this case is nucleus overload, where basically I'm accumulating a shitload of volume over time. If one wanted to increase the load they could either use progressively heavier bands, add reps, add sets or simply use a cable machine instead where you can control the weight.
Do cable face pulls give the same effect or is there a difference?
Bands are superior , there is already a video on this .
started my gym membership a month ago and for the first time in my life started doing standing overhead press. Iam just at a mere 25kg for 10reps but boy do i love the movement. There just is something unique about the feeling i have doing them that makes me grind to the last drop of power :D Great to hear they rock as a movement, cheers
must be all the blood rushing to your upper body :)
How much are you ohp now?
Always great advice from a REAL natural and NOT juice heads!! Thank you so much for always keeping real!
Lol you think he's a natural? Are you blind son? Here are three signs that shows he's not natty. His constant claim of being natural, his unnatural "puffy" or swole muscles as well as his body being full of liver spots. What we got here is yet another YT fake natty. Shocking! XD
How do you know?
So Basically, he trained lateral raises for years and built up his side delt then stopped and focused on just maintaining the muscle.
yep, the whole video summarized in 2 sentences
Wow
@@cautarepvp2079He gave other reasons including that he was worried about shoulder injury.
He kept getting bigger without lateral raises
no
I see people bigging up Lu raises and must say I agree. My lateral raises were a bit up/down and just never went anywhere for me. Switched to lu raises and been progressing consistently and much stronger than I ever was at lateral raises. The negative seems to be the most important part and due to the distance you can’t bs the negative with a lu raise like a lateral raise without smashing weight into your thigh. Similarly you can’t cheat a lu raise, just give it leg drive.
Lu raises seem to be exactly what every fitness coach tells you not to do. Going above shoulder height is not going to damage my shoulders?
@@randomnumbers84269 how is it damaging if you can’t even lift a ton of weight using the Lu raise. Like OP said, you can’t cheat it like you can with conventional lateral raises.
What kind of grip should you have when you do Lu raises? My shoulders pop uncomfortably with a paraller to the floor grip. If I turn my palms forward the popping eases but then I assume it will target more of the front delts?
@@randomnumbers84269 experiment with your grip, and also be mindful of your shoulder blade location. Often times I find that my right shoulder blade (main hand) tends to cave inwards towards my chest, make sure to play with keeping those blades nice and tight against the body as if you were doing proper pull ups. Speaking of, pull ups (diff grip variations) can help a ton with shoulder health and mobility. Deadweight hangs from the bar have helped my shoulder too, I know I’m giving a lot of smaller tips but ultimately you need to find what leverages work best for you and where exactly your problem areas are. Best of luck.
@@randomnumbers84269 the way you grip has a very very small effect on how you actually perform them. I would say go down weight if they’re popping, moving with minimal load is going to encourage healing way more than avoiding moving in certain areas with more weight. They can be a great tool for healing your shoulders if you are patient with them.
I like videos like this because it illustrates personal experience and sends a good message. Not a clickbait, viewsfarming videos how some people try to "change the industry" or whatever they think they're doing by attempting to bring "revolutionary" or "new technique" or "brand new way" how to train your delts and telling everyone in the thumbnail how they are doing something wrong. So, props to you, man for keeping it real.
Doing high frequency and high volume side raises is by far the best way to grow the side delts ! Mixing the modified cable version for lengthened bias with regular ones is great.
100! I just 5 pound plates and do laterals with those. Get a nasty pump and the v taper looks dope
@@pullsupatthepark405 u means u do 100 repetition with a 5 lbs in lateral rise and that cause it to grow? ty
@@victortancheongweeI think he meant "100%, I agree with".
Really interesting. I almost never isolate side delts and feel somewhat guilty about it. But I do a ton of weighted inverted rows, Handstand pushups, and rear delt work, so now I know I'm good!
You're all set homie!
Handstand pushups!? Damn bro so strong 💪.
Dylan Mcknight is one of the best examples of how having underdeveloped side delts as a natural is actually benefit aesthetically. You either go for the wide tube arms look, or you go for the huge tricep insertion look. Dylan McKnight's relatively narrow shoulders make his arms look huge
@@fatherdoug6644 hes not natural
@@simless282 you're deluded. 5'11 159lbs on stage Lmao after 4 years of training more than attainable natty
Alex, I owe it to you for my shoulders being my best upper body part because I first heard about Band Face Pulls from your channel years ago. Been doing them 2x per week for several years in addition to OHP and I'm still amazed at how effective they are for hypertrophy. Honestly no need to to do Upright Rows or Side Lateral Raises and risk a serious shoulder injury, especially now that I'm getting older.
Much love OG!! By now we've all experienced the wonderful gains that band face pulls have to offer. Definitely the easiest variation on the joints too.
How much resistance is enough if I do 8-9kg lateral raises? How much width of the band? Is 3.2cm enough? It says mid-strength (10-35kg).
@@milosristic8378 From 1:33 - 1:46 you can see the type of bands Alex uses along with the form. If you're starting out, start with those thinner & lighter bands like the 5 - 15 lb and work your way up. These should be done for higher reps.
@@lolfirepoisonftl I've done cable face-pulls with 35-40kg for 12 reps, but I'm still a beginner, do I need the band of the similar resistance or can I get a lighter one?
What do people think about the eye injury risk for banded face pulls?
I unintentionally did 45 degree seated rows last week, and I was wondering why my rear delts were on fire. Thanks for clearing that up.
I use lu raises for my weightlifting and I would say I has made my shoulder healthy and stronger.
Lu Raises are super bang for your buck!
@@AlexLeonidas lu raises vs face pulls....which one do you think is superior?
@Speedy McMuffinStuffins
Depends on your goals. Lu’s open up the shoulder girdle and free range of motion while facepulls stabilize the shoulder girdle and prevent injury.
What's a lu raise
I've been doing them for quite some time, but i got a pinch on my shoulder outside of training and the exercise didn't feel good. I'll cut the ROM to side raises and will gradually raise back
started doing facepulls following a shoulder injury. doing quite a bit of research for rehab, I learned the importance of the rear delt to prevent shoulder impingement, correct rounded shoulders which chest work can cause if not balanced out and general health of the shoulder.Basically the surgeons I saw advocated surgery , but research showed options to rehab the joint,and I now have regained about 90% of shoulder function,which is better than predicted for surgery
I am struggling with left shoulder impingment currently...could you tell me the main moves you used to gain that improvement? Thanks
@@fataheyablesame here
@@fataheyable I can tell you about my experience. I did external rotator cuff exercises, focus on weight with less repetitions. The other exercises don't matter that much, but I did shoulder press to use more load and some lateral raises. I'd say to you now with the information in this video: With face pulls, you will hit rear delts, rotator cuff and mid delts. So maybe try doing shoulder presses + rows with that diagonal position of the arms as shown in this video + face pulls.
And the magic touch: DO NOT train your backs, chest and shoulders on the same day or in consecutive days. Give this articulation some time to rest, at least one day (I noticed the difference with one week)! Avoid behind-the-neck puldowns and upright rows. Prefer less repetitions overall for upper body exercises (around 6-10 is optimal, but it is acceptable until 12). Prefer dumbell over barbell for chest exercises (it gives you control over the angle of your hands and arms).
If you really want to do everything you can, I'd recommend some stretching sessions and flexibility exercises, like lying with your chest on the ground and moving your hands (and arms, of course) in a circle, from behind your butt to above your head, until you reach form failure, without letting them hit the ground (your thumbs must touch each other at the beggining and at the end of the movement), like a butterfly.
In your daily life, avoid excessive thumb usage (yes, I'm talking about smartphones). I had a terrible pain after pipetting in the laboratory for the whole afternoon. Your shoulders must also remain in a neutral position. So do not use your elbows to lie down on your bed, and keep the forearm supports on your chair as low as possible, so your shoulders do not stay up.
I know you might have solved your problem at this point, but if this can ever reach someone in need... it took me a lot of research and trial + error to learn it.
@@slowtalkerI worked in a lab for 2+ years. The countertop work messes you up big time. I was doing a lot of face pulls, neck extensions and reverse hypers to correct hunching over all day. I have to add that I'm also pretty tall.
Fake natties: Do you want big shoulders? Do 40 sets of lateral raises everyday
To be fair tho, high volume coupled with extremely high effort will blow up ur side delts considering u do it for long and with proper form
@@NotAP05 yep, i do them as my finish movement of a superset, i do presses with ez bar curl, upright rows, triceps extensions behind the back and finish with side laterals with dumbells, for 3 months my shoulder and triceps gained alot, its all bout the effort
People actually ask you why are your shoulders so huge? Might want to stop hanging out at elementary schools. Kidding kidding.
Repent and believe the gospel
Trust bro
Close grip benching is what has helped build big shoulders. Also rowing with 45 degree tucked elbows. I can really feel my shoulders starting to give out a little earlier than my triceps when getting towards the end of my bench routine. I'm 161 pounds and can close grip paused 345. My philosophy in training is to just put up huge numbers and gains in size will follow.
Strong AF dude!! If you bulked to the 180s, you have the potential to bench 405 with a medium grip.
This is also what BOM talked about his side delt growth. All of his delt work are from rear delt rowing and overhead pressing. Great video Alex!
Awesome that he had a similar experience!!
Upright rows too
@@kvash1039 Yessiiir
I swear Natural hypertrophy is underrated, the information that he puts in his channel is too good, I love how you said NH 😂
His long talks are incredibly insightful!! Learned so much from NH
@@AlexLeonidas have you seen the bad news about his channel, it's really sad his channel might get terminated
I love the old clips man. It's been amazing to see your mental, physical, spiritual growth over the years. This is life. Keep on keeping on brother 💯
This video has a really cool vibe to it, with the different shades, the background music and your energy in general! Plus thanks for the great thoughts, will implement it in my training routine!
Thank you very much Flurin!! Wanted it to be super unique and I'm happy you vibed with it. Cheers and enjoy making those extra gains.
I agree Alex, OHP really made my shoulders & upper traps explode. However, due to my leverages my triceps do a lot during the presses. I do laterals cause of the different movement pattern.
Great delivery Alex, you're really easy to listen to. I'd say yourself and RP are the only bodybuilding channels I watch. Big up!
This vid is so true. I noticed that my shoulders never really grew until I started taking weighted inverted rows seriously. I started doing them to work around an injury, and just never stopped because they made such a noticeable difference in my shoulder size.
I have been practicing my pull ups & can do 10 fairly easy now. I was always bad at them but it's becoming a reality. My technique on the bench is getting better too. Another thing I've struggled with.
Do both, shoulders can take a lot of volume with isolations
Similar opinion here. I had a mostly strength focus this past year and basically never did side lateral raises but I upped my facepull/rear delt volume by a lot, especially with bands to balance with all the pressing I've been doing. I have the best looking side delts and overall delt appearance in general I've ever had and they blew up considerably. I also firmly believe the rear delts round out the appearance a ton and prevent the slouched look, and lots of people neglect them in general.
High rep seated dumbbell presses and heavy ass barbell ohp are my main movements as well. Also, high rep barbell upright rows. I feel my delts more on upright rows than on any type of lateral raise. I guess it sometimes all depends on which exercises you can build a great mind-muscle connection.
How much is high rep?
Great info on the face pulls. Regarding Presses: IME, "Presses for delts" is 2nd on the "results depend on the person". 1st is Pullovers (Chest? Lats? Serratus? Nothing?). I don't doubt that presses work the SIDE Delts well for some people. But "Presses build the side delts WELL" is not the norm. I don't doubt they work the front delts-the humerus is externally rotated, which puts the front delts in the most direct line of force. The point-I don't think Presses are "overhyped" for delts, I think they are "overhyped" for SIDE delts. There is a counter-intuitive truth about effectiveness of particular exercises: people who have the best (in absolute terms) body parts almost always respond to the "Go to". Arnold Flat BB bench for pecs, St. BB curl for biceps. Platz squats for quads. Haney reg BB rows for lats. The counter-intuitive truth though, is that part of the reason the basic exercises does so much in these cases, is that the body part is "wired in", has long muscle belly length, and often, is paired with "just okay" surrounding muscles (just okay, relatively). An EXTREME example of "don't listen to the people with great or easy bodyparts" is calves. Some people with great calves don't even train them. That doesn't mean, the answer to building weak calves is to not train them. In practical terms, used the basics when you start. If they keep working, keep using them. But if you have a weak BP, don't DROP the basics, but 1. find the variant that works best for you and 2. use isolation exercises to hit the area you want. Physiologically-weak points get relatively worse if not focused on, not better. If Flat BB Bench hardly works your pecs, but blows your triceps/front delts up, this will get worse, not better if changes aren't made, as your body will recruit the muscle/portion of muscle that is BEST able to perform a movement *in your own case*.
Love this format of video. Super professional and easy to follow Alex.
Interesting. Personally shoulders are my most stubborn muscle group, so i've decided on the meathead approach of spamming lateral raises and upright rows. I don't feel like my front and side delts get hit optimally with presses, although it's also my experience that rows at 45 degrees destroy the rear delts.
I always struggled to feel my delts on presses, then I switched to a seated dumbbell press with a high incline, and it felt so much better. I got more range of motion, a more comfortable bar path, and more activation of the delts
All good homie, and I forgot to mention that upright rows will also contribute to 3D delts!
No muscle is stubborn, if you'll work smartly you'll grow.
Maybe try front raises I do 5 sets 20 reps every workout
@@MatzeNRW1803 how many times a week?
5:03 bro walking up to me with a durag had me weak 😂
LMFAO
😭😭😭
The most awaited video..!!.Thank you Alex💪
Gymnastics rings have been great for my shoulder development too, they’re bigger now than when I did only regular gym exercises like side laterals
In the front swing on rings and a few skills like front uprise you pull the rings above your head like a face pull, and these are all movements that make up a majority of the training volume! And that’s not even taking into account all the handstand work
My side and rear delts have never looked better, rings training is understated imo
@NDP Variety🇨🇦 Yes mate, one of the best for sure! It’s like dumbbell bench with the added extra serratus and core activation on top
What exercises did you do for rear delts and all heads
@NDP Variety🇨🇦 Appreciate the reply. Do face pulls or a variation of face pulls work rear delt aswell? Just not as much as those listed
I think this applies very well to older athletes who want to protect their lifting longevity. I have a damaged shoulder and it has pretty much killed my ability to bench as heavy as I'd like. And laterals aggravate the hell out of it.
Makes sense, the band face pulls are especially a good choice for older athletes.
Personally, ive grown my (lateral) delts mostly by doing seated lateral raises in an extremely controlled manner (thanks to Scooby1961).; only recently have i started to focus more on OHP (both barbell, standing, and dumbbell, seated) because i have neglected that movement so much. Plus i just like to get in a bit more variation and it's fun and i like what im doing - and at the end of the day thats what will really get me the biggest gains possible and not whether something is "optimal" or not
Hey great video! & amazing quality. What camera & mic do you use?
Sony a6600 with deity microphone
That said I would recommend the Panasonic s5ii with an XLR Sennheiser mic
@@AlexLeonidas thanks keep up the great content! I subscribed.
With your cable setup, it's easy to incorporate cable lateral raises. I prefer cable laterals over dumbbells because of the constant tension on the delts. Egyptian laterals or leaning to one side laterals with cables are best.
Shoulders can take a lot of volume and frequency, you can in fact design an upper body program that train shoulders everyday. Apart from isolation biceps/triceps exercises, all upper body movements can be modified to put more emphasis on shoulders, and the shoulders can take it. Even during isolation biceps movements you can incorporate some shoulder work, because the biceps also help front delts flex the shoulder joint, so lifting your elbows during a curl work some shoulders without compromising biceps work. I do that in incline curls, both shoulders and biceps are fully stretched at the bottom and they both get a great activation with a slight shoulder flexion. It even works in strict curls: Instead of just bending elbows, I curl the bar all the way up to my forehead. Yes, it also works shoulders but the increased range of motion works the biceps a lot especially during the eccentric. It even helps you get a better mind muscle connection.
Bro I’m so glad I watched this video 💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽💪🏽 I needed this !!!
Shoulders are my favorite area as well, and I have decent sized shoulders.
I don't do any isolation exercises for them. Wide pull ups, barbell rows, overhead presses are all I do for them. Somehow I have always felt that pulls and presses work the lateral delts pretty well. Alex has confirmed that here.
Facepulls hits the side delts fantastically
I wholeheartedly agree!
Okay i think u really know what you talking about, hopefully u being consistent of putting up contents like this, u deserved another subs
Wow that is pretty much me, I've overhead pressed a lot and I've done a lot of rows with the same grip as my benchpress and my rear delts are not lagging behind at all.
OHP is the fucking KING. I'm a combat athlete (kickboxer, grappler) - OHP with kettlebells have made my shoulders bulletproof and improved all metrics: strength, power, speed. Cleaning, pressing, push-pressing, jerking, snatching... all without the nervous system recovery demands that heavy, bilateral barbell pressing would entail. I'm pressing more than people who outweigh me by 30-40 lbs, and it doesn't interfere with my sports specific training!
Honestly, I got a lot of these ideas from Alex and although my goals are very different from most of y'all, the principles are universally true. I'm systematically getting stronger, more powerful and athletic because of the knowledge here. Blending calisthenics now too - focusing on rear delts, rowing in general, and lots of pullups. Relentless improvement never ends.
always happy to hear what you say about these topics and your fairly "unconventional" methods, really shows that there's not just one single way that leads to success. As for me, I went over to "demolishing my delts to the great beyond" as you put it, by doing some kind of lateral raise pretty much everyday I'm in the gym. :P Lateral raises, one sided cable raises, Lu raises.. feels really great for me, and regeneration doesn't seem to be much of an issue.
Mind though, I'm by far not as huge as you and really trying to gain some size in this area.
And what you're doing is perfectly reasonable my man, I'd do the same!! Haha keep demolishing those delts to the great beyond 🔥🔥
My pet peev is people who act like their way is the only correct way
Great anecdotes and evidence to support your findings. Well done video👍🏽
Yeah, in my experience overhead presses absolutely DO build up the middle and to a lesser extent the rear delts. Obviously you should do isolation work (ESPECIALLY for the rear delts), but the overhead press is a great overall builder for the shoulders.
* calisthenic movement taught me two bodyweight lateral delt exercises, one using a wall and other using the Floor, both you press, one is placing your elbow and forearm to the wall, you place them like if you were resting and you press only with that arm, and the other exercise is like the position of a lateral ab hold but use your palm and press with that arm.
Another good and healthy shoulder exercise is using barbells as if they were Indian clubs and preform swings, this is also excellent for warming up.
Resistance bands are also nice.
I don't do laterals because they hurt, and not in the building muscle kinda way. Like joints and issues. I do different shoulder exercises like shoulder presses, overhead presses and rear delt reverse pec deck work.
Try doing lateral raises in the scapular plane, might help! But yeah you're good with those
If one wants to know if a muscle is activated in a compound lift all they have to do is some isolation work in that muscle then attempt the compound lift. Work mid and back delts before doing dumbell presses. notice how hard it is to keep the weights stable.
one thing that is super underrated for side delts is high volume overhead pressing. it has done wonders for my delts, and even fixed my shoulder pain!
super light weight, close-grip ohp is amazing
High rep seated dumbbell presses and heavy ass barbell ohp are my main movements as well. Also, high rep barbell upright rows. I feel my delts more on upright rows than on any type of lateral raise. I guess it sometimes all depends on which exercises you can build a great mind-muscle connection.
How light? How high rep?
yup, i also love upright rows..i do them on pull day, and the OHP on push day. more weekly frequency that way, since delts recover fast
i say whatever weight you'd lateral raise with, just ohp that. i take one of the fixed barbells and just rep it out until my delts are screaming. usually 4x20
@@Tazy50 high rep ohp seems underrated. I see ppl either avoiding altogether or doing 5-10 reps.
Ring face pulls, T and Y form rear flys, good shit im currently focusing on doing Y flys and face pulls
Those are damn good!
I never did lateral raises in my life and people always compliment my shoulders. I only did pushing exercises, lots of pull ups, which I superseted with facepulls
finally someone who has the courage to say it clearly! subscribed
Can you do a vid on the chest expander? I've always thought of it as just an infomercial product
It's legit AF, will make a full video on it
just incase anyone get confuse , this is just his opinion on why he doesnt do lateral raises and instead he do an alternative for side delt , he dont mean everyone should'nt do it.
now everyone is different.... muscle mind connection and etc... i for one still love lateral raises the muscle mind connection feels the best.. but ofcourse is important to do some alternate side delt exercise sometimes.. it will feels amazing once a while.. but as always it is all depend on how training plan goes..
I could never grow my rear delts, implemented rear delt rows and within 2 months they grew. I just couldnt get the full contraction on rear delt flys variations and rows did get the best moving patern for my mobility. Eugune Teo has a great video on it.
Now that's what I'm talking about!!!
Simply put, the lateral delts are partially worked in both pressing and row exercises. If you do both with enough weight and volume, the lateral delts will be stimulated enough to grow in size. Specifically, the overhead press and the rear delt row with elbows at 45 degrees give the best bang for the buck in working all three heads.
I've come to the same conclusion
I fully agree that side delt isolation isn't really necessary. for the past two years , I've been mainly doing overhead press, meadows rows, and banded face pulls. OHP arm path is similar to a y raise which hits the side delts anyway. recently I've been incorporating cable lateral raises and upright rows as I take a break from ohp but yeah ohp def hits side delts hard
Same, I definitely don't do them much anymore just because they seem to pop my front delts more. I find that rear delt work has rounded the rest of the shoulders off very nicely.
A lot of times, you can count on the max activation of any muscle by increasing it's range of motion. For rear delts, stand with your arms straight out to the sides, level with your shoulders and see how far you can move your arms behind you. It won't be much. Now, slightly lower your arms and try it, perhaps as you say, at a 45 deg angle. Notice how you can move them more behind your back increasing the range of motion? IMO it's proof you're right about the angle of your arms while rowing to hit your rear delts. Great information!
I see you use a narrower grip on OHP, is that better for shoulder development? I always "heard" forearms should be perpendicular to the ground at the bottom of the movement.
It's easier on the shoulder joints and you can typically go lower so narrow is my preference for long term vertical pressing
Paused trap bar OHP is my favorite for side delt activation. Feels like behind the neck pressing without the discomfort. Plus you can pause really low, even lower than with a barbell thus enhancing the weighted stretch !
I think lateral raises are vital for definition,. especially exemplifies the insertion between the delt and.bicep, so how about doing all three movements for optimal shoulder development..rows laterals and heavy press.. that's the key to bowling ball delts
Hey Alex, do you think upright rows make lateral raises redundant especially if you do a lot of them?
Thats crazy, I've been obsessing on researching on how to grow my shoulders and this is what I've been able to come up with as well. (so far)
Band face pulls are amazing. I double rope them (clip two tricep pushdown ropes to the band) to maximize range of motion with the external rotation/front double bicep pose at the end. I workout in my garage with no access to cables, but don't feel like I'm missing out at all with this exercise.
I gotta give this a try. My shoulders, especially front tendons are just wrecked from 35 years of lifting. It’s hard to get away from doing anything that works the front, nay, impossible, but maybe more emphasis on the rear will help.
Upright rows are awesome.
Another cool way of indirectly hitting the side delts! Should have mentioned, I used to do those with dumbbells along snatch grip high pulls (short term).
Holy shit this is easily one of the most important videos I've watched from you. Gonna change up my routine after this.
Personally lateral raises are one of my favorite exercises. I just like them and I get great results from them. Contrary to most opinions I find moderately heavy to heavy 30-40 pounds in the 6-10 rep range are quite nice. Plus it looks sick if you can lift 40’s like their butter.
I’ve bn training w LR for abit over a year now and do 12 kilos, is that good? Or is that too much
@@moonknight4053 If you’re doing it with proper form, that’s really good bro! Keep it up
@@Batman-ro9mj wow thank u bro, I’m abit green on how I much weight I should be lifting per year tbh
5:41 I started doing this and got a biceps tendonitis or a shoulder tendonitis, felt a huge pain in my shoulder. I dont recommend this exercise if you have weak- medium shoulders. For me lateral raises are good enough to feel my shoulders weared out and not injure anything.
I guess there are different exercises that trigger each one's muscles depending on body structure and existing muscles. Some exercises are good for beginners (like lateral raises => gets the work done and leaves you free of injuries) while other exercises are better to trigger more advanced bodies (like yours perhaps).
Very interesting point of view about the 45-degree angle. I've recently been incorporating face-pulls and couldn't figure out if they were meant to fire my rear and medial delts that much or if it was just my bio-mechanics!
The thing is the lateral head of the deltoid works with both the rear and front delt, so overhead presses and face pulls will still work the lateral head, still think you should work in isolation with them
recently I've been doing reverse flies and chest-supported dumbell rows, really allows me to go all the way up rather than the barbell hitting my stomach and stopping the range of motion
this information confirmed something I've been considering for a long time, that rows are one of the single greatest lifts you can do for your upper body development. It targets lats, all heads of the delt, rhomboids, traps, strengthens grip, and that many muscles of the arm and hand. Yuri rows also keenly strengthen the spinae erectors for upright stabalization in a way horizontally positioned dumbell bench or ground stabalized rows don't. My preferred method is with dumbells and a bench though. I'm not the biggest guy, 5'6" 135lbs, but rows have been one of the single greatest exercises I've used for muscular development, increasing strength, and ensuring i have a though back that can handle a lot of work without pain or stress on my spine. BACK IS KING.
i've never done consistently lateral raises, because my shoulders cracks and pops aggressively when i do them and i feel my tendon grinding against bone when doing them, so i've only done overhead press variations and rows for my shoulders and my side and rear delts are very well grown
Too much weight and improper form. Had the same issue. It's not a big muscle, you don't need a ridiculous amount of weight. The weight shown in this video for example is excessive for someone earlier on
NGL, as a bodybuilder the only direct shoulder work i do is lateral raises and rear delt flys…10-20 reps. 2x a week 5-10 sets each. works wonders for growth
My shoulders are my best body part. I've only ever done OHP and face pulls
Fantastic!
If you do dumbbell overhead press both front and lateral heads will work in a greater extent than doing the barbell overhead press because it forces your front head to lift the bar above our heads with only needing our core to handle the bar, the dumbbells though they let us have more freedom in movement and demands more stability to keep the dumbbell in our hands for both core and shoulders, for rear head i do pull ups, i don't do rows that much but because of deadlifting and doing pull ups i have a nice back and a nice rear delt, im no bodybuilder but im definitely big.
i love lateral raises, one of the dirtiest shoulder pumps and I love the capped delt look
You can obviously grow your delts without doing Lateral raises. You can also walk to another city. At the end of the day, if you want to maximize your deltoids, you need to train each head maximally. That means, presses, front, side and rear delt raises. Most lifters will need ridiculous amount of volumes to grow their shoulders. For me I didn't get delt soreness till I did 12 sets a session (2x a week) of Lateral delt isolation and 7 sets of rear delts.
This is my favorite exercise I will never stop doing it
I had to transition to single arm cable lateral raises after 6 years or working out due to weird pain in the c6/c7 region of the cervical spine. It is a sort of a nerve pain, maybe induced by squatting and doing raises on the same day. I have since stopped doing lateral dumbbell raises and insisted on using the pad when doing powrrlifting bar back squats and the pain is gone, even when I attempt the laterals again, but I am afraid for it to start flaring up again.
Haven't done anything for shoulders other than calisthenics (hspu, dips) and they're still one of the best responsive muscles second to my back.
I'm also doing calisthenics, can you get 3d shoulders from just hspu? I mean will the side delts grow with hspu?
@@nextprogram5945 all comes down to your genetics. With calisthenics I prefer to focus on strength and the true beauty behind the movements. If I happen to develop a good body that's a bonus. Calisthenics means beauty in strength. Also I'm not a big guy so my genetic peak if I were to ever shred down would be around 160-170lbs lean. So for me it's just not worth it to go through the dieting. Permanent bear mode for me.
BTN presses also recruit even more side delt than traditional standing/ seated OHP. If you dont enjoy laterals, BTN’s should do a good job at recruiting the side delts if you enjoy pressing
You are absolutely right. I like doing high pulls after heavy trap work, that way my side delts limit me as much as my traps. But I actually had to stop because I'm trying to hammer the farmers walks, and believe it or not, farmers walks smoke all of your delts because they really fire hard to hold your arms in socket while everything is moving around. That, and you are trying to pull the implements, or dumbbells away from your legs. It's like a side delt weighted stretch, existential threat/irradiation superf***
So farmer carries hit the front, side, and rear delts? Would I still be able to feel this with a trap bar?
@@samuelma7709 If it's heavier than you want, and you walk with it for longer than you want. That's what makes carries of any kind work.
Interesting and similar to my experience. In the past i found laterals didnt do much. I got more shoulder size buy doing heavy powercleans and pushpresses as well as snatches.
I use to get sore shoulder/rotator cuff issues when i would bench heavy, so i started to high rep FacePulls to strengthen the external rotators. This eliminated the shoulder pain from bench pressing and to my suprise my rear delts looked alot better as well as my side delts and more of a rounder 3D shoulder look. Also my bench press went up. I agree with everything you said 👍
For me, getting to bodyweight overhead press didn't make my shoulders that much bigger. When I started high volume lateral raises, they blew up
That is probably the experience of 95% of Bodybuilders. I´m sorry but AlphaDestiny just seems to be gifted in the delt area. (obviously more than arms)
But bodybuilding is all about genetics. Take a look at the goat Arnold Schwarzenegger. They did side laterals with shitty form back then, but many heavy presses. Arnold (and many other pros back then) had very underdevelped side and rear delts compared to todays standards. With average delt genetics you will need to do side laterals with proper form and mind muscle connection.
Yep
@@Schaufelor idk man his side delts aren't even that crazy to me
He has good impressive delts for a natural lifter mate. Especially when you could still see he has decent size even in his shredded state, that's when you know his shoulders are packed with muscle.
I’m the opposite. Done lateral raises for years and not much growth, focused heavily on ohp variations and they grew like weeds.
What was your old channel name? I forget...
Alpha Destiny
The man NEVER gives bad info. You are pure Nattygoals!!
I appreciate that Graham!!
This is good news! I have done laterals but don't love them. I can't imagine having small shoulder if I was OHP 225. I am a long long ways away from that, by about 100 pounds but someday.
I also like dumb bell presses starting below shoulder with the plates facing forward rotating to 'normal' in the last 1/4 of the rep. Warming up with them and then moving to heavy OHP feels pretty good.
Lateral raises, go run off and pester someone else. - Cheers
So happy to hear this , I fucking hate side raises
Awesome Alex. I’ve always wanted to know why you don’t do laterals. Question answered.
I always fucking wondered this!!! My shoulder dysfunction doesn't really seem to be improving yet, so I'm really trying to pick up that rotator cuff work. Facepulls surely would grow the side delts, even if not directly. Though I guess it depends how heavy you reach on the pulls? Such a refreshing take on exercises.
I have never got so much growth like when I started doing elevated lateral cable raises and cheat lateral curls, night and day changing the stress curve of the movements and developing better neuromuscular connection for smaller muscles, each to their own but be careful with the inductive reasoning even more when it's broscience what backs it up.-
I’ve been doing mace swings for a few months, most of the time before heavy presses. Purely anecdotal and might be placebo but my shoulders have been feeling A1. With progressive overload of course too
It’s a great warm up prior to pressing . I also do this
side delts are activated when you do side delts and holding the weight as if you would pour out water, this is fact,
if you do "normal" side raises, it can barely hit side delts, more front or back delts, depending on your stature and how your shouldrs are joint naturally, i can move my shoulders while doing side raises and it will totally kick in rear or front delts massively, depending on if i turn out my upperarmbone or turn in (in direction to body/core)