@@christianlopez707 Seems like FF has the wider worldwide appeal that Square is willing to take risks with. FF has no "normal" past the SNES. Dragon Quest is far more niche outside Japan so Square sticks with what people are familiar with rather than try to reinvent the wheel in an attempt to broaden the fanbase. FF is their golden child and known for experimentation. Dragon Quest is their traditional, true to form game. Kinda like 3d Zelda being experimental where 2d Zelda is largely traditional. They can appeal to people who don't want change while also avoiding stagnation.
Dragon quest used to spend a lot more time on story and character building. This iteration feels shallow in comparison to most of the series. It seems they opted for graphics over content.
@@rafnork9325 The heck you on about? DQ was always more about the adventure then story. If anything DQ11 is the most story driven of the DQ games along with DQ8 and 5. While also having alot of content.
I liked the battle theme a lot and a couple of the other new songs (like Rab and Sylvando's themes), but the dungeon/boss themes were horrid, and I disliked how most of the OST was recycled from previous DQ games.
That’s my only real issue with the game. IMO I really love every individual piece of the orchestrated soundtrack. But the diversity. It’s a 100+ hour game and you’re gonna hear those same damn tracks so many times.
This game actually had unique and memorable towns. Wasted potential to give each town its own unique theme fitting the design. Each town was clearly inspired by real world cultures.
The english translation of the game's title "Echoes of an Elusive age" really does have a hidden meaning when thinking about how this game hearkens back to the oldchool days of game design and aesthetics, i.e. it "echoes" a now elusive era of gaming.
6:58 I actually loved the way the game handled Sylvando. Yes, at first I thought he was going to be an annoying, outdated stereotype. But the game never makes fun of him, quite the contrary. The party members join in on his jokes, no one ever belittles him for it. Instead he is presented as being just a very nice and cool person. The entire cast is likeable but he probably gets all the best lines and moments in the game.
That’s because sylvando do is very dependable and mysterious. He’s odd but also very likable. He embodies the flamboyant 90s character that would just be made into the gay character of made today by another developer.
@@firenze6478 Seems legit. From what little I've spoiled of Sylvando for myself thus far, he's the comic relief but he's more than that. He's got his own bits of personal depth in his backstory and probably any arcs about him, in addition to just being a guy who's very comfortable and proud of who he is.
Don’t forget the allegory to being gay they make with Sylvando joining the circus instead of being an army and his dad initially not being happy about it but by the end openly embracing his son’s choices.
@@AlexRN LGBT+ allegories are always good. As much as I feel representation matters, they're easily heavy-handed. So being subtle about it helps, especially for those who pick up on it, understand the meaning and enjoy it more. ;)
@@raziyatheseeker yes, I always hated representation when it was obviously done only for representations sake. Characters shouldn't exist only to fulfill an agenda. Sylvando meanwhile feels essential to the team and the themes of the story. And since the story doesn't care about sexuality, or gender, or whatever you can interpret here, the game doesn't dwell on it. I like that.
I do agree with alot of what he said but seriously he talks about the 90s way too much. The whole video is just a long winded way of saying that he likes the game because it reminds him of the old school JRPGs he used to play in the 90s.
That’s how you rank videos. You use the keyword in the title, and then spam in in the video. People who search ‘90’s games’ will see this at the top of their search if the video also retains viewers once they have clicked on it.
LordLightning 23 sorry to hear that, i myself am actually really good at breath of the wild i play it on master mode all the time lol. anyways i hope you can get better at, it’s truly a work of art once you get the hang of it.
"Games aren't made like they used to be.." Boi you ain't lying. The way RPGs cutscenes could envoke emotion. Connection to pixelated fantasy characters. Tellah no!!! 😆
It's like the old situation of turning books into movies. Because there are no visuals, the reader creates their own image of what things would look like only to have the movie adaptation turn out very differently. In the same vein, pixel animation creates an unfinished picture where the imagination is tasked to complete it. Modern animation leaves nothing to interpretation and in my opinion, is often executed poorly.
@@nothingtoseehere6142 I don't think that is quite the case. Old and new games still had visuals, so you didn't need to imagine much. Cutscenes. However, how the scenarios were presented and the writing is what makes the difference. FF XV was full of cutscenes, but it was poorly executed and writing was weak.
@@blumiu2426 im my play expierience game with pixel evoke more emotion because u fill in the gap example being octopath traveler the vizual for life steal move is just therion pointing the knife back and forth in my head he does the anime shit double slash with cold stares but as with everything in the world to each their own
@@livingminimumwage6359 I meaaaan, it was only called Dragon Warrior in the US (or the west? was it released in Europe?) to avoid copyright issues. It was still called Dragon Quest back then in the country it was actually from
I have a different theory. Every person who creates something has their own individual style that always shows through in their work. It's very possible that some of the original Dragon Quest designers are still making Dragon Quest games today. What you call "90's" style might actually just be the individual creative styles of the same people who have been designing games ever since the 90's.
Yeah Yuji Horii is still the lead scenario writer for Dragon Quest. Him and his Armor Project studio are the number 1 reasons why even though other developers have handled the development of previous DQ games (Heartbeat DQ6-7, Level 5 DQ8-9, Square Enix DQ10-11), the series is still able to maintain its charm and design philosophies.
Yup. Final Fantasy or SE has lost most of its team, left with only Kitase and Nomura now. Thus, the problem. This is a situation where they need someone new to take over, whereas Dragon Quest has a formula that just works with it. I think the same goes for Persona and how that has increased in popularity. However, there is a mindset that likely exists with older developers and their approach to games compared to younger devs. They are used to sacrifice and pouring themselves into a game. They lived when they were able to be creative with games where that is no longer the case at SE.
BluMiu honestly I think Nomura is one of the reasons for Final Fantasy’s identity crisis and it has to do with his obsession with trying to create battle systems that are flashy and action oriented like Kingdom Hearts. Just look at FF15 and FF7 Remake (I know about the “ATB system” they put in but let’s be honest it’s not)
*Dragon Question XI Is A Perfect Game and its my favorite of the decade by far, its JRPG comfort food in its finest quality 😩 and don't get me started on that PHENOMENAL switch version smh.
Enigmalake I did, even the opening chapter was far more varied than 90% of DQ games. DQ is a painfully straightforward series, there are no twist or turns, is a straight line. Is a good Average JRPG Tho.
I never played dragon quest a friend of mind told me to try this on switch. So i got it when covid started. I was hooked once instarted put in maybe 200 hours...i loved every aspect...the characters...the store..the music. It was a masterpiece i fell in love with it and started buying all other games...cant wait for DQ12
Same! Even if I knew it would generate mixed reactions, its addition to Smash brought what I have been questing for all along: Knowledge of its existence.
I'd say this game as well as the 3 Xenoblade games have been my favorite JRPGs of the past decade. Nothing has come close to capturing their charm and feel, at least to me. Final Fantasy has tried with the 13 series and 15, but none of them contained the heart and soul I look for in a JRPG.
Exactly the same for me (except I haven't played Xenoblade X yet) and you can add DQX to the list. These games trump anything FF has put out in the last 10 years.
@@Mingodough In my opinion, Xenoblade 2 has the best battle system. The original's is still good and all, but compared to those that came afterwards it feels kinda shallow.
@@AshXXMayftw It's in depth and all, but for me personally doing attack cancels, timing right, blade combos etc, the battles took too long. Like I'd fight an enemy at the same level as me and take 3 minutes, and that's how long it took for random encounters, the original is more shallow, but the second one I personally feel doing the same thing (in this case killing random peps on the overworld) but slower, and it destroys the pace for me.
The sad part is that until Final Fantasy X, no one was confused about what to expect from a new Final Fantasy. All those saying “changing is part of the FF formula” are conflating evolution with change. To all those saying “what makes a Final Fantasy is the story and the lore,” all I can say is that the combat system is the “game” part of a Final Fantasy video game. If story is all that matters, it might as well be a movie. Final Fantasy invented a flavour of a turn-based battle system and innovated on it with each release, and the part that “changed” and where they “explored new avenues” was the character progression system that nurtured it. Of course story is just as important as the game, and I’d argue that those two elements are joined by the style of music to form the three pillars of what made Final Fantasy such a treasure. The latest (XVI) seems to have none of it-it’s an overly dark and serious Game of Thrones-like story with a Devil May Cry-like battle system, and a far too dramatic score (as far as I can tell) that over-uses a choir which diminishes the value of a choir when there is one. Notice all the “[something]-like” in there? Yeah. It used to be that others tried to make “the next Final Fantasy.” Nowadays, Final Fantasy wants to be “the next [insert popular game here].” Just as when you hear “Street Fighter,” regardless of the story, the “game” you expect to play is a fighting game, or when I say “Gran Turismo,” you expect to play a racing game, when you hear “Final Fantasy,” you should expect to play a unique fast-paced turn-based JRPG. That’s what makes it a “video game” series. Without that, the word “series” is just wind. Turning Final Fantasy into “the next God of War” is not “exploring new avenues.”
What I like about DQ's simplicity is that it's a franchise that doesn't need the next game asap. We can enjoy the current game knowing that the next one will have all the staples the franchise has been stuck with since the 90s.
This is a 90’s game in 2019! Isn’t that insane? It’s a 90’s game in 2019. This never happens, especially not in 2019 because 2019 isn’t the 90’s. Other companies might make 90’s games, but Triple A companies don’t make 90’s games, especially not in 2019. I definitely felt as though 2019 was not the year for 90’s games, but Dragon Quest XI truly is the pinnacle of 90’s games not made in the 90’s. Maybe if I just keep saying the same few sentences in different ways, and never actually discuss why this is important or what a 90’s game actually is or how it’s different to games today, they’ll eventually get my point. This game from 2019 reminds me of the 90’s!
The thing with DQ development is, 11's development went through an initial hurdle none of the others have. Typically the announcement of the next title is approximately 4~5 months after the release of the previous. Then another 6~7 months down the line, we see the first pictures, about the time the previous game is released world wide. However, each time the formal development announcement came, the system was named with it. Usually this is due to having easy console pickings: DQ's until DQ9, when to the best home console for new mainline games. The console with the highest sales-through rate or the highest general potential sales-through rate in Japan. So NES -> SNES -> Playstation -> Playstation 2. In the era of the Nintendo DS, the handhelds took over, and Japan saw a dramatic drop in popularity for home consoles (thanks to the Japanese government directly insinuating gaming habits were for children, but mobile gaming was acceptable for adults, so handheld gaming systems and mobile gaming took over). By the time of DQ10, the Wii was the clear winner of the console wars, and had actually done reasonably well in Japan. Though at a snail's pace compared to previous console generations. In the case of DQ11, there wasn't a clear winner of any kind. The handheld gaming market was substantially slower in Japan. Horii was even asked if he would be making DQ11 for smartphones given all trends back in 2014, just after he announced he began the planning stages for DQ11, and a few months later, Square-Enix announced DQ11 was formally under development. Unlike previous games, it took them another year after the formal development announcement to announce the systems. So they weren't even sure of the development kits. They even experimented heavily with Epic's engine, as Horii wanted to do mainline consoles, but PS4 sales were far slower than any previous generation in Japan at the time, though it held the lead, and stats implied the majority of owners in Japan were adults 25+, the main market for DQ games (mobile had taken over the children's market, thanks to the gradual decline in consoles thanks to Japan's ministers helping to kill an industry...and Japanese families by assuring husbands are away for 15~18 hours a day, almost 6 days a week...wooo, Japan!). They even made a mini version of DQ3 in Epic's engine, as a test case. However it seems like most of the time was deciding on engines and which console to use, with far less done on actual game planning and direction. They announced development in June of 2014, and the consoles at the end of July of 2015. So official real development happened around July of 2015, going forward. Retooling DQ7 3DS' engine for the 3DS version (which was the same engine used for DQ6 SFC, DQ3's SFC remake, DQ7 PS1, DQ4's PS1 remake, and DQ 4, 5, and 6 DS, with constant updates and retools for each new system...and is where all the DQ6 tilesets/etc. came from for 2D mode), and Epic's engine for the PS4, along with a planned NX (Switch) announcement. After that, the timing for reveals and data is about on par with typical DQ games. So it's easy for me to say that while the announcement popped in June of 2014, Horii was planning/processing in April of 2014, the actual real game development period was between July of 2015 through to March, maybe April of 2017, leaving the rest to beta testing, then box-art, marketing, retail-deals, and printing copies while preparing online content (Japan is typically 90~97% physical sales, 3~10% digital, with a few exceptions). That's also the time they brought in the two extra teams, Orca for PS4, and I forget the one for the 3DS. So real development time would be 1.75 years, and I guess if we consider beta testing and finalization, 1.83 years. We also have the bonus of easier pickings for the next system: Switch is a clear winner even going forward into the future. They're now used to multiplatform, and given they can use Epic's engine from now on, that drastically reduces artist and 3D modeling. They can tweak and update textures if they need to. Plus for PS5 development, and if they want to do a PS4 release as well. There's a good chance the PS5 will be slow out the gate, if the price point rumours are true, we'll see PS3 numbers, not PS2/4, but that might be why Sony is postponing when the original plan was for 2019 Christmas and early 2019 disclosure...so they might be assuring hardware is cheaper. Anyway the point being the PS5 will be easy to develop on as well, especially if they use Epic's engine. Given DQ's tend to rehash near identical monster and character designs, the battle system is only slightly tweaked or added to between games (sometimes drastically behind the scenes...DQ9 from DQ8 had about as many gameplay changes as FF8 + FF9 did from FF1...yes, you wouldn't think so, given the veneer, but DQ's have a lot going on gameplay-wise behind the scenes, though without removing the basic super structure that holds it all together, DQ11 is also a drastic set of tweaks, rebalances, and changes to core elements from earlier games). I expect to see DQ12 details in a few months, and release in 2021. This time world wide almost back to back (maybe a few months difference). DQ numbers are really low in Japan compared to all previous years. Switch should have seen more than double the numbers, and 3DS should have seen 3m+ alone in Japan. So they know they need to create a WW audience, especially as outside Japan, smartphone gaming isn't quite as prevalent due to social morays and appeal to general gaming audiences, even now with all the "Raid" whoring. So expect stuff this year to wet your appetite.
What gives this game it's 90s feeling is the simplicity of it. You know exactly how everythig works the first time you play it. Any other modern RPG you need to play for 100 hours before you know how sh%t works. You can just enjoy the adventure without all the distractions that most modern games have.
Short answer is that Yuji Horii isn't an enormous fucking sellout, and he has a very time-tested formula for making the most boilerplate of boilerplate jRPGs, and adding just enough new story beats and character designs between iterations to allow it to stay... maybe not 'fresh', but 'well cured'. Like a bag of beef jerky, or a jar of preserves. Thing with Final Fantasy, is that, while it does this to a lesser degree with some of its staple creatures and classes (moogles, cactaurs, chocobo, behemoths, black mages, white mages, dragoons, etc.), the setting of its worlds changes a lot more between sequel iterations than Dragon Quest. So while in Dragon Quest, you might get one vaguely pseudo-medieval EuroJapanese-inspired fantasy world that has a dream world layered on top (VI), and another that contains a previous game's entire overworld within it as a sort of underworld (III), and another that has a Laputa-style castle in the sky (IV, V, VI), the hybrid medieval EuroJapanese fantasy theming mostly remains consistent, whereas FFIV can be about a Kingdom of Sailor Moon-esque Lunar alien people with lost memories riding Mario 3 style propeller airships, VI can be set in a victorian steampunk setting with a Star Wars-esque evil empire that has discovered a way to rob the gods of their magic on an assembly line and make magical mech suits, and VII can be a sci-fi cyberpunk dystopia in a version of the Land Before Time where Cera's dad gets Hojo to replace its legs with tank treads as part of his mad-science monster-making fetish. And then there's X, which does away with medieval European pretensions altogether, and is instead a weird blend of Okinawan, Thailander, and South Pacific cultures, feeling at points like some kind of trip to Fantasy Hawaii.
Dragon Quest XI is fantastic. Completed it on PS4 and then the Classic mode on Switch. Loved both... but I would say 3D mode is the definitive way to play. I don't think I'll ever play classic again on future playthroughs.
Toriyamas art has always been the biggest draw to the series for me and the biggest problem with the series up until DQ8 was the very limited presentation of them with minimal animations and graphics. I only want to play this game in 3D
I think my problem is that the SNES Dragon Quest games were never as cutscene/character heavy as DQXI. And unlike FFV AND VI, the characters don't have emotive animations that would make these cutscenes more engaging.
This game hits different. Its so nostalgic and amazing, easily my favorite game of all time. Felt like I was watching a great movie. Reminds me of reading Lord Of The Rings and Dragonlance Chronicles
@@Light-vl6sr I've seen that, and I don't want to be disrespectful but IMO that project is a downgrade from the original game. I know it'll never happen, but I'm only interested in a proper remake ala Resi 2 or FF7. Even if they remade it to the standard of something like Lost Odyssey I'd be ecstatic, but an RPG Maker reboot of a then AAA game makes no sense to me.
Playing this game genuinely made me feel like I was reliving my childhood, making me remember some of the greatest moments I've ever had playing rpgs since I was a kid. It brought me back to a place I never thought I would get to experience again. It captures the classic rpg vibe so well that it actually made me feel like I was back in the 90's/early 2000's.
I highly recommend playing Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch if you haven't already. It's very similar to this game (apart from the battle system) and has that old school charm that most games don't these days.
Great recommendation. I think Ni No Kuni Wrath of the White Witch also captures the magic of retro games. I also think its another example of trying to do something to appease gamers of today. (Look at the combat system in the second game)
I'm pretty peeved about how people how people bandy about the term "FF disease" after Tabata as if the 9 first games in FF weren't really consistent in most substantive ways (types of story, music, world structure, battle system and a blend of fantasy and sci fi elements). Yes, FF innovated with each title, the changes largely centered around tweaks to combat, and character progression with gradual shifts in the gradient between classic fantasy and sci fi - but there was a clear direction and style to the games. The substantive changes didn't begin until 10, with the removal of the classic world map and the introduction of co-composers, and weren't solidified until 11(12 if you only count the single player entries). FF disease isn't a thing. It's a dumb marketing strategy employed by Tabata and Square et al in a bid to confound the conversation and make it seem like the post FF9/10 gen of FF fans cultivated on crap like Advent Children have an equal claim to the identity of FF when SE decided to ditch their original core fanbase in pursuite of the action RPG and action adventure crowds who never genuinly liked FF for what it was and who would only ever consider playing them once they looked like Advent Children and had combat to match. Guess what though, until FF has 18+ games with 9+ of them being less like FF1-9, there is no claim there. FF didn't definitely lose it's direction until around the wada era, starting softly with 10 and at its most apparent with 15. Pretending otherwise is obtuse and just plain wrong. Don't get me wrong though - It's SE's franchise, and they're free to experiment and change FF to whatever degree they want. The thing that bothers me isn't as much the change, as it is this strategy to pretend as if this degree of change was always in the cards for the franchise and trying to obfuscate that by pretending FF never had a consistent spirit and overall design in the first place. SE doesn't have to pander to oldschool fans like myself, but I'd appreciate if they didn't try to undermine our voices and insult our intelligence by pretending our falling out with the franchise isn't concretely the result of it having been turned into something radically different from what it once was and not in a natural progression from its earlier entries.
I think the FF disease totally is a thing. I mean you’re putting FF1-9 together like it’s one entity, but in reality they’re not that closely related. I grew up with the Nintendo era. When FF7 came out, it was nothing like the other games at the time. Sure there were mascots that were relatable, but it was completely different game to what came before. My brother and cousins actually didn’t like FF7 at first because to them it didn’t “feel like Final Fantasy”. FF is a unique series because 1. Each game is designed to be different. 2. It was a niche series in the west until FF7 made it popular. Now you have millions of people walking into a series that is a decade old at that time thinking “this is what Final Fantasy is”. But it’s not. FF can be whatever it wants to be. That’s how HS designed it in the first place. He has stated that the heart of the series is redefining it with each entry and challenging yourself from the ground up. If you’re wanting to get technical about one single identity, the newer era of FF (XI-XV) has much more to do with the original concepts and themes of the original games than the popular era of FF (7-10). Warriors of light, crystals, chosen ones, etc
@@optimysticquest No, it really isn't - unless ironically, we're talking about the people who, confusedly, propagate the myth that the core part of FF leading up to Sakaguchi leaving SE after the Wada takeover never had a consistent spirit or design other than "radical change". It's funny to me you talk about "how in reality 1-9 weren't that close to eachother", despite the fact that in my original post I outlined several specific ways in which they were. You, on the other hand, follow your assertion with no argument as to how supposedly distinct they were, except with a really poor anecdote that only speaks to how certain people felt but with no factual substance. It's even more ironic that you try to draw a distinction between 6 and 7, when aside from the new 3D graphics, near everything about FF6 and FF7 are highly similar and follows a trend of iteration dating back to FF4. - Worldmap, still there. - Command battles, still there. - Uematsu soundtrack, still there. - Quirky and diverse cast of misfits trying to save the world from a global threat, still there. - The magicite and materia system clearly iterative of eachother. - Desperation attacks and limit breaks, clearly iterative of eachother. - Emphasis on minigames to break up the standard gameplay loop, check. - Fantasy and scifi/steampunk blend, check. Each game in the original was designed to tell a new story and to iterate on certain base concepts and features to, in the words of Sakaguchi himself, "keep things fresh". This is not the same as radically altering the formula or removing entire gameplay aspects or turning them on their head. That's a false equivalency and is apparent by the fact that non of the titles leading up to 10 did this. They all shared a strong DNA, as apparent by the traits I listed above, several of which began going missing or change entirely post FF10, but not before it. Nowhere did I say FF cannot be whatever it wants to be. Any franchise can do that. It's the purview of any creator to be able to do what they want with their intellectual properties. I said as much in my OP. That's neiter here nor there however. The argument is whether or not FF ever had an identity to speak of above and beyond "radical change" or "reinvention" and whether it even makes sense to claim that those words characterize the majority of the franchise the best when you actually bother to look past surface level aesthetics. The fact though, is that it doesn't, and your "argument"(list of assertions) here is as hollow as the lazy market slogan of "FF disease". I dare you to find a quote that has Sakaguchi saying FF was about redefining it with every entry outside of speaking about narrative and setting. Meanwhile, let me provide some choice quotes by the man himself : The Guardian - JRPG legend Hironobu Sakaguchi : "I have a formula from the 25 years experience I have in the industry - an RPG formula," he says. "Which is a turn-based, orthodox JRPG." IGN - Interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi Q: "What is your favorite Final Fantasy title? And please tell us why you chose that particular game." A: "The upcoming Final Fantasy IX. This title (currently under development) is based on a reflection of all the previous works in the series. The coming installment is my "favorite," it's closest to my ideal view of what Final Fantasy should be. But, I've set my standards too high, so I think there's room for more Final Fantasy titles to come." Metro Entertainment - The Last Story Hironobu Sakaguchi interview GC:Chrono Trigger is one of my favourites, but I could never understand why other games didn’t use it as a new template - and why they carried on with the more traditional Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest style. Did you hope at the time that it would have more influence than it ultimately did? HS: "I think the fundamental reason why turn-based RPGs existed for so long is simply because Japanese users preferred that style and therefore as professionals we wanted to create games that everyone would enjoy. Which is why I myself continued with the Final Fantasy style and so the fundamental reason for the lack of change is that there wasn’t a demand for it, at least in Japan. It’s not like there no other games similar to the style of Chrono Trigger, it’s probably because the games weren’t localised and didn’t reach the Western audience" Sum summarum : You're simply wrong, period. FF, at its most quintessential is best reflected by FFIX, the accumulation of the 8 previous titles, as classic, orthodox JRPGs - In Sakaguchi's own word "Final Fantasy style". End of story. The games changed very little in the ways that mattered outside of graphics, story/setting and character progression mechanics, because in Sakaguchi's own words - There was no need for it. That need arose with the PS2 era, and happened towards the tail-end of 10 and anyone with basic media literacy and/or who aren't clouding what they want FF to be due to a preference for its current direction can tell that if they look at it.
hian Final Fantasy IV changed the battle system. FFI-III were strict turn-based. FFIV invented the ATB system. That was taking advantage of newer technology and progressing the series. And I do disagree with you that very little was changed outside of graphics, story/setting and all that. The core concept and theme of the HS era (outside of FFII) was warriors of light, prophesy, chosen ones, crystals etc. I used FFVII as an example of being nothing like that because that’s when FF became mainstream in the west. That’s when people actually knew what it was and were introduced to it. I am not saying at all that I had a problem with that. I have extensively played FF since FFI. I love all the changes that have been made to the series over time. Sakaguchi said seeking new challenges is the true nature of the series. He also really loved FFXV, which he said captured the spirit of the originals. Sakaguchi is all about challenging himself. The Last Story exists and that isn’t traditional turn based. FFIX was originally going to be a gaiden project, but was then made a numbered installment to show the newcomers of the series that there isn’t a single formula to use for FF and to show them what FF used to be like. The fanbase overall didn’t like FFIX much when it came out because it didn’t “feel like Final Fantasy”. Saying I’m wrong when I’m pointing out the flaws of how the fanbase has viewed the series since the beginning? My brother and cousins didn’t like FF7 at first because it didn’t feel like FF to them. FFIX was essentially crapped on by the “fanbase” at that time. I mean, you can’t say the FF disease doesn’t exist. Most people won’t even give the Hironobu Sakaguchi (directed) era a chance. It’s all FF7-10 for most people. Sometimes 6. But anything before or after that isn’t even given the light of day. Yes overall the gameplay has changed the most since the PS2 era, but that is for modernizing with the times. FFIV did the very same thing when it changed the battle system.
@@optimysticquest Good job providing no argument of substance and outright ignoring every single point that firmly deflates your overall assertions (like every single actual Sakaguchi quote I provided you). The ATB is a change to the battle system - it does not however constitue the entire battle system being changed. In Japan, strict turns and ATB are both subcategories of "command based battle systems" which is what westerners regularly confuse as "turn based battle systems". This change is considered an iteration, not a radical overhaul or reinvention. You again demonstrate a complete inability to grapple with the substance of this distinction, and so this will be the last time I say it : Conflating reinvention or radical change with minor iterations is a false equivalency. I do not deny that the latter happened over time, I deny that it is charitable to interpret the majority of the franchise as being best described by the former. The reason doing so is utterly ridiculous, is because literally every franchise, including DQ, does this and we don't talk of games like Suikoden or Breath of Fire as being best defined by radical change or not having a particular spirit. Ultimately, FF1-9 clearly share more structural elements between eachother than post FF10 titles do with any of them internally. It's also fairly rich that you spend time talking about narrative differences such as the presence of crystals (FFVII had crystals all over btw - not only the materia, literally described as crystalized life energy, but also present in the city of the ancients) or the heroes of light when I specifically granted that narrative/story is the specific part of FF that was always changing as a part of the franchise's formula - ironically, another aspect that SE now routinely shits on by pumping out sequels to the mainline entries. I think it's becoming pretty clear you're not actually reading what you're responding to here. You also don't seem to grasp the substance of my critique of FF disease. I am not saying there doesn't exist people with different views of what the spirit of FF is - what I am saying is that the term is used as a way of saying everyone is equally right in their take on what FF is/was because "FF was never something clearly identifiable in the first place (except change apparently) - which is patently false. This is what I disagree with. The majority of FF, that is to say FF1-9 , shared a majority of their frameworks and followed a clear line of iteration within a specific formula. I've given you a very specific list of those elements and your response has been "but they introduced the ATB with 4" and "the storytelling saw a shift", non of which substantively addresses anything on that list. Pretending FF disease applies here is disingenuous and wrong. There's nothing about that take which warrants the term FF disease. If anything it should refer to people like you who bend over backwards with mental gymnastics to pretend as if the majority of FF titles up until 10 don't share a strong shared DNA. They do, and the titles post 10 less and less so. Your appeal to how people don't give the older titles a chance speak nothing to this point. That's a part of what I am critiquing and why I loath this concept, because it tries to equate the perspective on the franchise as a whole between a group of people who actually have played it as a whole and have an accurate appreciation of its trajectory over the decades with people that clearly don't. I have provided a clear argument for why that is so with clear quotes of the father of FF himself corroborating this. The fact that he went on to make the Last Story or endorsed FFXV aren't even relevant in the slightest and the fact you thought so speaks to your inability to structure an argument with proper causality. It's specifically in interviews on the Last story, from which I pulled two of my previous quotes. The Last Story's design was purposefully, in Sakaguchi's own words, a radical departure from his FF formula for the purpose of appealing more to a western audience. His endorsement of FFXV on the other hand has nothing to do with whether or not it embodies the spirit of earlier FF games. For one, it was a paid promotion, and secondly, Sakaguchi is on record saying FF is SE's to do with as they place. Nothing about that speaks to whether Sakaguchi thinks FFXV is consistent with his earlier works. In fact, by your own examples, that could not be the case. If The Last Story was a radical departure from the FF formula in Sakaguchi's view, given that FFXV has more in common structurally with it than older FF titles, it too must be a radical departure from the classic FF formula. Of course, that should be readily apparent given that Sakaguchi thinks FFIX is the ideal of what FF should be, but then again, you conveniently ignored that quote. And with that I'll give you the last word. If your latest reply is anything to go by, I have no doubt you'll keep speaking past the point while ignoring the arguments and quotes that inconvenience your point of view. I have only so much time to spend on motivated reasoners.
hian wow that is a lot of labeling. I am only making points as to how people perceive the series differently. I am not going to deny that the overall gameplay has changed the most since the PS2 era. However, depending on when you enter the series has historically determined how people perceive any change at all. And it’s easy when you come into a series after big changes to not care much about how it has changed before then. I am all about having a conversation about this, but I do not want to entertain someone who tries to demean the other in the conversation. I was never rude to you at all. And if HS said that FFXV does capture the spirit of the originals, and it does in almost every thematic category, how is that not a part of the series’ “spirit”? FFXI and FFXIV also do this. FF7’s crystal references are certainly not the same as how the crystals are in the old era. I’m not crapping on FF7. I love FF7. Also, in terms of battle system, wouldn’t FF10 11 12 13 and 14 count in your argument? They are menu based and all follow a turn-based or ATB derivative. FFXV isn’t menu-based, but appears to be Sakaguchi’s favorite for a long time. You can say it’s a paid endorsement, and I’m sure he was paid to appear at the FFXV event. However he met often with Tabata about the vision and development for the game. I recently did a reflective review and analysis on FFXV. Feel free to watch and tear it apart. This was only meant to be a conversation and no contention as you seem to be leading with it. I can’t respond to every word you said. If this was an actual conversation and not a text log on a UA-cam video, I would love to have a full conversation on the topic. Feel free to post on my discussion page and we can work out those details:)
You really sold me on this. I was quite fond of DQ8 on the PS2, even though the game was very basic even by the standard of the time then. Looking forward to try this too once I have the time.
I'll always take interactive mechanics over mind-blowing graphics any day of the week. Final Fantasy seems to put graphics first, and everything else second. Yet I still play FFVII the most and have as much fun as I did as a child, with its pixelated Popeye-armed characters.
Agreed, I will always prefer games that ARE fun over the ones that LOOK fun. So many games these days try to look cool while you just watch, like Uncharted with its "cinematic gameplay".
@@rafnork9325 Really? I thought that Sylvando and Rab were pretty interesting characters, and *spoilers* Serena losing Veronica and learning to become her own person was a great moment of character growth. In fact, the characters develop so much in this game that I became angry when the game was like "go back and time and fix everything", removing everything you've worked for.
@@Jordan3DS Serena got her tiny bit of growth that was never talked about again. There was no build up to Veronica's sacrifice, there was no shock either, it seems like it should have been flushed out a bit more. I hate that they used time travel as a cop out, but the game did get more fun in the third part. The stories were better and minor character development did happen.
@Final Fantasy I never said it did, all I did, was share a thought that I have about a game series, I never said people aren't allowed to acknowledge 12 and onwards did I? And if it sounds like I did, I apologise, but that wasn't the intent
DQ always retains the same tropes, music, storylines and writing....it isnt 90s. Its earlier than that. For long time dq fans its what they expect. As for fans being on different sides when it comes to DQ or FF, erm never heard of it or experienced it, where Im from and from what I've seen, there isnt a so called division, it isnt DQ fans or FF fans, its just JRPG fans. People who love FF or just Square games in general also loved Enix, also loved the jrpgs from Konami, Bandai, Namco, Irem, Capcom, Sega, Nihon Falcom, Tecmo, Koei, Atlus, Gamearts etc etc. Never understood the need and the obsession to create divisions between the same sets of fans, the west seems to love to do this all too often. Undermine or reach for a negative aspect of something to make out that the other thing is better. Just enjoy each release on its own merit, flaws and all, like the rest of the world does.
I don't think he was pointing at any actual division, thought it had existed back in the day when they weren't merged. Most people that played Final Fantasy wouldn't touch Dragon Quest and many of them weren't even released here then. Everyone has their favorites, which they prefer. Competition exists in all cultures, look at sports. It seems more childish in gaming, but it is human nature. I think you're only attributing it to the West is entirely wrong and bias on your part, so a little reaching in there, eh? Japan definitely has favorites when it comes to manga, picking your favorite anime character and things like that in big polls by companies. So again, you're quite wrong.
@@blumiu2426 that may have existed one way but it certainly didn't exist the other. Dragon Quest fans had no problem playing Final Fantasy games, largely because it was more popular and it's what you'd talk about with friends. In my case the final fantasy fans I knew didn't know about dragon quest. I let one borrow my gameboy color copy of 3 and he loved it.
@@RedOphiuchus That's how it worked out, yes, though there is always one group that start out playing the other somehow. It was somewhat encouraged as Square and Enix had been competing for two decades.
here’s a transcript: “Remember the 90s? The 90s were so much better. Everything was better in the 90s. Here is the 90s; if you do not remember, you did not have a childhood. You were not a child. You retroactively did not exist. Remember Bobby’s World? It was a good show! You’re too young to remember. It was a good show! We had Nintendo 64. You don’t. Things were better then. Now all is lost. We had: Nintendo games, bowling alleys, pizza parties, Macdonald’s, skating rinks, ice cream, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, Elmer’s Glue, safety scissors, Tootsie Rolls, Combos, swimming pools, OJ Simpson, Green Day; we had Green Day. What do kids these days have? Nothing. The 90s are over. All that’s left is despair. The day the 90s died, all joy died. This generation. They don’t know. They don’t know. Kids these days. Kids these days. This generation. They don’t know. They missed out. Also i hate it when they put gays in my video games. I can’t stand flamboyant fucking faggots.”
I found you guys a couple years ago when you were still "the dark pixel" and I gotta say, you guys continue to have one of the best little channels out there. Keep putting out the great content! ♥️
I don’t hate on Final Fantasy constantly experimenting. FFVII has a bigger impact than DQVII for a reason. I enjoy FFXII & FFXV as much as I did with DQVIII & DQXI
Dragon Quest XI totally looks like my jam, but I just can’t bring myself to start any 100+ hour games these days. I find most games that long REALLY start to drag at the 50-60 hour mark. That’s why the awesome JRPGs from the 90’s seem infinitely replayable. They’re usually a “brisk” 20-30 hour experience that you can have fun breezing through multiple times.
I don't need any story mode longer 30-35 hours, honestly. The knowledge of the colossal length is what has prevented me from really diving into Persona 5.
Well I'll be damned. This was damn good. Not only did you gain a subscriber just now, you made me extremely reminiscent of days long since passed and for that I'm grateful. It was fun, reminded me of what I miss about older games. And the Emperors New Grove cut was an nice touch 😂Good stuff man, thank you 🙌🏿
Tl;dw: He says "Dragon Quest XI is a 90's game" like a billion times without once explaining what that even means or what he even liked about the game besides nostalgia. But he does make sure we know he hates Sylvando. Also he goes on a 4-minute rant about Final Fantasy for some reason.
I love Dragon Quest, and I love long videos about Dragon Quest (like, Tim Rogers' content is fantastic), but yeah. I really hated this video, I kept waiting for his point to come and it just never did.
I mean I love all the Final Fantasy games, even XIII and XV. They're all great games. I think it just depends on what you're looking for in your JRPG. If you have an open mind, they're all really fun and great in their own way. I think Dragon Quest's gameplay just feels nostalgic because it has the same gameplay from JRPGs in the 90s. So another reason it feels amazing compared to Final Fantasy is the nostalgic gameplay. In other words, nostalgia is making the 90s games look better. The important thing to realize is nostalgia is very powerful and it can cloud your judgment. Give modern games a chance and you'll enjoy them. Play older games and appreciate what they did. But saying a game is great because 90s is kind of biased and not fair to games of today.
Finished the game last year and it's now become one of my favorite games in the last decade. It's such a phenomenal JRPG to experience. From its characters to its world, you'll end up loving them all throughout the journey, as many like me did. :,)
Damn right. In fact, this, Final Fantasy 9 & Chrono Trigger are my top to go RPG games. With Final Fantasy 6 & Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story coming really close.
To be fair Dragon Quest 9 and 10 were on handheld consoles and action-RPG... Which is all the more a massive change as it's concerning the Dragon Quest series.
It's such an amazing and long game! And even if you stop playing at the second story arc, you still get a very satisfying ending, but what a great path to the true ending!
This was a most enjoyable video. Gaming is shaped by what's happening in the larger culture. For most average people in first world nations, the 90s were a time of stability and prosperity, whereas *everything* has been in question since 2001. I think that's why 90s games, like lots of media of the time, have that something that feels so comfy. It's not just your childhood nostalgia at work. Final Fantasy, like most media, started asking those dark and disturbing questions that arise during bad times. It has morphed with the times. Whereas Dragon Quest decided early on that it would never change. We need both, but we've really been starved for the comfy side. Good to see a little bit of balance restored.
I'm sure a part of it was how young and inexperienced we were back in the day. TLoZ: Ocarina of Time is especially a good example. Best game of all time!! No. No way it comes close on my list but when it came out there was no game like it that people had experienced.
@@firenze6478 I think there are things about Ocarina of Time that holds up well to this day. The art style, the sound design, the music all hold up well. Also I think it holds up well if you are new to 3d Zelda games and if you are into simple stories. I have beaten the game enough times that there is no challenge in playing the game anymore. No sense of danger means that there is no real feeling of adventure. Yes, back in the day there was nothing to compare it to. It was because no one had played a game quite like it that there was a sense of danger, excitement and adventure to it. But once you've explored it enough and gotten good at the combat its pretty easy. There are things about the design I really like but its just not enough to keep me interested in it. There are many games that outdo this game in many ways including zelda games. As far as story and characters go there were even SNES games that had better more detailed stories than OoT as well as other things.
Mimic Warrior Artist you may just need a break from it, you play one game too long it doesn’t matter how much you like it eventually it’s going to get frustrating to play. Let’s not forget that this was the first game barring ff6 where the bad guy wins and gets every thing he wanted, heck in the downfall timeline Ganondorf kills link. Lttp is also a great game that holds up very well today, I honestly think botw is going to be forgotten as soon as botw 2 comes out in comparison.
@@firenze6478 I've taken a break from it. I both agree and disagree with that idea because there are games that are simply much deeper and more complex in terms of the characters and the world building. I was blown away when I first played it but now there are games that far surpass OoT including games from the same series. Twilight Princess for instance recaptures a number of things OoT did and manages to have a better art style, better music, and a better story. The characterization is much better too. I actually get the sense that Link has personality and character in TP. Breath of the Wilds story certainly isn't amazing though I like the tutorial beginning but its the gameplay and exploration that will make that game endure. There is much more of a sense of adventure and it actually feels like you are exploring a world in that game as opposed to a land in the previous games. If the next game is more story focused then that game might lose some of that freedom to adventure and explore. The Legend of Zelda timeline is a joke. Nintendo has rarely been good at making good stories and characters - its never been their focus. What makes Lttp and OoT timeless is when fans take those narrative beats and structures and effectively create their own story inside their heads. Final Fantasy IV has a better story than either of them. Also, doing something different or new by itself doesn't make a good story. It has to work with all the other elements.
The 90's and even the first half of the 2000's were without a doubt the Golden Age of gaming. Even though younger generations can still experience many great games from that Era, they will never fully understand how special it truly was to live it in the moment. Somethings shouldn't change.
I consider myself to have had the best of both worlds: the timeless classics from days of yore coupled with modern conveniences. Not only did I not need to pay eighty dollars for "CHRONO TRIGGER" thanks to the Wii Virtual Console, but e-commerce has also enabled me to purchase Japanese import versions of many of these classic games, as well as ones that haven't been released in the West (I'm quite a big fan of import games).
I mean, calling it a early-oughts game would be fair, given Dragon Quest VIII was the last proper single-player Dragon Quest in the series before XI, IX and X both being designed with online play in mind.
I agree though I think it had too many “easy” moons. Still one of the best games on switch, I liked it far more than botw. Hope Zelda isn’t an open sandbox with no story direction or set puzzles and item unlockables forever...
Firenze 64 breath of the wild was a good game but a bad zelda game the open world was cool and the graphics and music was definitely great the gameplay was fun but the stuff that makes Zelda awesome was missing in this game like the game had boring dungeons and boring boss battles all the dungeons and boss battles were literally the same even the final boss was not that zelda like. Zelda botw 2 better have more dungeons with different looks and styles to it and different bosses. The puzzles were fine. Mario odyssey had some easy parts I will admit but it’s definitely one of my favorite switch games next to smash bros and Luigi mansion 3 which is an amazing game. I also agree with this video dragon quest 11 has a great classic feel to it
The best phrase was "What IS Final Fantasy?" As someone who grew up on 4, 5, and 6? 7 didn't do it for me, but I totally understand that it's some folks first game. 9 is my favorite, and nobody has made anything that good in the FF series ever again...except for 14. The problem with Dragon Quest to me always began with Akira Toriyama, as I've never been a fan of his artwork for Dragon Ball.
God the 90's were great. I remember being so very excited for the future of final fantasy and asked myself what X, XI, XII and so on would look like. Then the Spirits within happened, the merger with Enix and X-2. XIII. I have wondered if the tools of the last 15 years enabled Square to develop their vision that they all along had from the start. If they had this technology in the 90's, would they have been too unfocused with key components like scenario, storytelling and character development to make something like FFVII. The endless visual possibilities got them sidetracked. Good artists limit themselves and don't use all the colours at once. I think that's partly the case. Regardless, with the direction of XIII they began their path to make final fantasy resemble badly written shounen anime with a focus of things looking cool and cute. And thus a new fanbase was born.
Believe it or not, X-2 was originally published in Japan by Square Soft before the merger. It was the last game to be published before the merger took place.
I like X-2 much more than X, actually. X's story is so badly written that it's hilarious, but at least X-2 is self aware and embraces the goofiness. I think FF was on a weird trend for a while. VIII sucked, IX was amazing, X was mediocre, XII was great, XIII sucked, XIII-2 was good, then XV sucked. I definitely think it's a bad sign that the two worst FF games, XIII and XV, are basically back to back mainline entries (since MMOs like XIV usually aren't counted).
You are 100% correct. I've never played a game since the SNES era that has given me that childhood feel like this game. I've been like a kid going to bed late and waking up early in the morning to play that game on some days. It has been an absolute joy to play.
I was thinking up a list of my all time favorite games a while back and I realized that most of the slots were going to 90's RPG's. And I've been trying to figure out why that is - what exactly was it that made that era so great for RPG's. I do find modern games that I enjoy, but often those are in the same vein and generally not big-budget titles. There definitely was a certain kind of magic to the great RPG's back then. It wasn't universal - there were plenty of clunkers too - but on the whole it was a great time for those kinds of games. Does nostalgia play a role in my feelings here? Of course. But it's more than that, something that - as you noted - is difficult to put into words. Charm would be one thing, I suppose. Outside of indie titles, there's not much of that going around these days. Heart, maybe? Kind of a nebulous term, but it's the best I can come up with. I don't know.....I'm still trying to come up with a proper explanation, or at least finding a way to properly articulate my feelings on the matter. As for why we don't get many titles like this anymore, I think that it is at least in part a casualty of gaming becoming more mainstream. The big money is going to go the types of games that will appeal to the masses - namely action-oriented stuff. Nice to know we can still rely on Dragon Quest at least. I hate to admit it, but I still haven't played this one. I've been meaning to, but haven't gotten around to getting it. Watching your video really makes me want to remedy that.
I can see the message that's resonating with me here. Back in the 90's I played FF7, 8 and 9 with pure devotion to the series. When FFX came out, I was thrilled, but something was already... wrong. By the time X-2 was released, I was horrified, and when I finally played Vagrant Story 2... sorry, I meant FFXII, I knew I had to file a divorce with the series. That's NOT the direction the fan base wanted the games to take, period. I tried then Dragon Quest 8 as a way for me to hold on to those mechanics I was longing for. Cool 3D graphics, old fashioned turn-based combat, etc. I was hooked by its purity. I bought Nintendo DS just for DQIX, and now this glorious 11th chapter fell on my Switch. The problem is... I just like the art style of old FF entries more than that of DQ. I like the Toriyama look and feel, don't get me wrong (I mean, which male of my generation doesn't?), but 90's FF aesthetics are at the core of my own imagination of "fantasy". But as long as the mechanics don't try to match the originals, the series is dead for me.
Dragon Quest XI S was my favorite JRPG last year and my favorite game of last year. It managed to be what I wanted. But whenever I suggest this game to Final Fantasy fans that crave for that old school feel, they scoff.
Innovations (even when they don't work and care called experimental) are often overrated and praised. Polish (making working ideas better) is often mocked as stale and unoriginal. To the point that the 3D beat-em-up Dynasty Warriors franchise stopped polishing their most fun bits to innovate on the formula and ruin DW9 after the series' best game DW8 Extreme legends.
John Smith Innovation is fine if it there is a genuine reason to innovate. People think Metal Gear Solid was innovative but it really wasn’t and I would say it was a detriment in gaming. You know what was innovative? Thief: The Dark Project. That game simulated stealth with it’s light and shadow based mechanics and robust sound propagation engine. I think the problem with Final Fantasy is that they don’t just throw the baby out with the bath water with each new game, they also chuck the tub.
John Syzlack oh my personal favorite is V. Always will be. I just think the jump from Nintendo to Sony have them the idea that they can do anything with no limitations, but that has been their downfall.
It was my first DQ game. And it was fun, genuinely. And yeah, very fun to see such a classic style of gameplay rendered in high quality 3D graphics. My main problem with the series was always that I've never been a fan of Toriyama's art style, and in playing XI, I also learned that the music is *lousy*.
I've never played a Dragon Quest game but I have played Dragon Warrior on the NES from start to finish like 15 times. The music always gets me. The nostalgia is real.
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for this. Your outlook on final fantasy is perfect and probably why im loving Dragon Quest 11 so much. This has never been voiced better than you have in this video.
27 year old early 2000s kid here, I agree with everything said in the video. Will now check out Dragon Quest 11 because our experiences were pretty much the same when it comes to DQ vs FF.
I’d rather it be like xenoblade 1 , the sexy fan service in 2 was very overbearing and constantly shoved in your face stealing any and all seriousness for a stupid pervy joke. Because of so heavily fan serviced they had to make Rex a generic moron like corrin to avoid making him a pervert and making him a perfect Mary Sue, Jin reasoning for destroying all humanity was ridiculous, the dude that killed his girlfriend also wanted that! Malos felt like a middle school bully not final boss ever. I found the combat very repetitive, make orb, break orb , repeat, Rex was so op( without eye of justice zeke is garbage) that every team had to have him, when xenoblade 1 could never use shulk when you didn’t have to and made great teams. The cool Cold War plot between uraya and mor ardain get completely shafted for a far less interesting get to metal tree. All the villains just get killed off instantly with no twists are reason for me to care. The combat was slow and being restricted to three moves per blade with most being rng waifu bait that I couldn’t reassign without a rare item sucked. And blade quests ranged from mediocre/ semi alright to please get this over with. To be honest it’s not the direction I want the series to go into...
Really great video. I love this channel man. Dragon Quest II (Dragon "Warrior" back then) was my first real "FAVORITE GAME OF ALL-TIME". Now in my mid-to-late 30s coming across a game like DQXI hits a nostalgia nerve like few other games do these days. I'm looking forward to the FF7 Remake for the same reasons.
It took you this long to try DQXI?! Or did you put a ridiculous amount of hours in and finish it just now? :D With all the optional content, I wouldn't be surprised!
I don't know, I haven't stopped playing jrpgs since the 90s and there has been great ones every generation. I guess people skipped the DS, 3DS, PSP or Vita, which had tons of jrpgs collectively, not too mention quite a few gems on PS2, PS3, Wii and XBox 360. Most of them have a 90s feel to them too. There are tons of jrpgs to play outside Final Fantasy.
I blame Final Fantasy's identity crisis on every game X and onward. Ever since, the devs have focused more on making something that feels "next gen" rather than making a good game. XII was the only game that really felt like an interesting new direction for the series with its more expanded action turn based battle system. In fact, Xenoblade Chronicles showed us what FF could have been if it had kept improving the XII design structure. Instead, XIII was a game that tried to be cutting edge, but the developers forgot to actually design the gameplay and story over the gorgeous vistas. XV probably bears a large degree of the blame, though. It was supposed to be a spinoff, but after years of development, they slapped a "XV" on it to guarantee high sales, even though it felt nothing like an actual FF game. After that, I feel like Square just gave up and said "FF is an action series now". The moment I gave up was when I watched an interview with Kitase himself where when asked if FF would ever have a mainline turn based entry again, he said "No". When the game that popularized turn based RPGs in the west is being remade as an action game, you know the series has lost its way. I still love games like XIV and Opera Omnia, as well as SE made spiritual successors like the Bravely games and Octopath Traveler, but mainline FF is dead at this point, until the suits at Square Enix suddenly decide that actual RPGs are cool again (which I hope the success of Persona 5, Octopath Traveller, and Dragon Quest XI have shown them). In all honesty, though, I think they'll just keep pumping out action games aimed at the casual western market, since that's where the money is, fans be damned.
@@DeezNutzzzzzzzzzzz XII was great, X is super meh. Poorly written story, uninteresting characters, a short and poor excuse of a final dungeon, completely linear, and the sphere grid system is obnoxious to use. Not to mention the horrible minigames you need to beat to max out the ultimate weapons.
@Woodrow Pride Doesn't that mean all the more reason for DQ to evolve? If the next Elder Scrolls comes out 11 years after Skyrim and is still a copy of Skyrim, would that not be dissapointing? DQ11 is a refined take on 8 (with a little 9 thrown in). Meaning that if you already played 8 on the PS2, you've played most of what 11 has to offer
Honestly, I've generally gotten lots of 1990s vibes with many games. Playing Spider-Man 2018 felt like playing Spider-Man 2000 in the days of yore. Jedi: Fallen Order felt a lot like playing a 1990s game with platforming, difficult combat and even weird save points. Squadrons is essentially an X-Wing/ TIE-Fighter Remake, and even games like Immortals: Fenix Rising feels a lot like old Jump n Runs the likes of Banjo Kazooie or Jak & Dexter. So, developers, bring it on, I'm all in on that type of tight and fun game design. (Also, FF15 with it's modern day like setting and somewhat janky combat system made me feel right at home, since FF8 had those same qualities, even down to the emotional-hero, and it was my first Final Fantasy).
I love this game. A classic jrpg fairy tail , with beautiful visuals, classic score and fun characters. I'm glad it hasn't strayed from its roots. I haven't liked a final fantasy game since 9
Very concise video, two ad spots, nearly a minute in length for a 10 minute video for you to essentially say it's a 90s game and it reminds you of your childhood.
I've been saying this for years now: The more Final Fantasy changes, the more Dragon Quest stays the same. And I love it! :D Great video, guys!
I wonder if the reason is because they really wanna build both franchises up as the poler opposites to eachother.
@@christianlopez707 Seems like FF has the wider worldwide appeal that Square is willing to take risks with. FF has no "normal" past the SNES. Dragon Quest is far more niche outside Japan so Square sticks with what people are familiar with rather than try to reinvent the wheel in an attempt to broaden the fanbase.
FF is their golden child and known for experimentation. Dragon Quest is their traditional, true to form game.
Kinda like 3d Zelda being experimental where 2d Zelda is largely traditional. They can appeal to people who don't want change while also avoiding stagnation.
@@zeroattentiongaming820 Makes sense, far more then it being a "90s game".
Dragon quest used to spend a lot more time on story and character building. This iteration feels shallow in comparison to most of the series. It seems they opted for graphics over content.
@@rafnork9325 The heck you on about? DQ was always more about the adventure then story. If anything DQ11 is the most story driven of the DQ games along with DQ8 and 5. While also having alot of content.
Positive: I liked the review. Dragon Quest is such a precious franchise.
Negative: Don't you ever dream to criticize my best boi Sylvando.
He turns Puerto Valor into a never ending pride parade and damn it I am here. for. that.
Sylvando was entering as shit and I love him!!
Strongest character growth in the game. Started thinking he was annoying to loving his flamboyant ass.
I swear I came here to defend Sylvando. Happy to see I wasn’t first!
came here to say exactly this. who fucking cares if he's flamboyant and over the top lol. he's also extremely badass and talented.
I felt the exact same way. This game was truly a satisfying experience. My only gripe was the ost which began to drive me into madness while grinding.
I liked the battle theme a lot and a couple of the other new songs (like Rab and Sylvando's themes), but the dungeon/boss themes were horrid, and I disliked how most of the OST was recycled from previous DQ games.
That’s my only real issue with the game. IMO I really love every individual piece of the orchestrated soundtrack. But the diversity. It’s a 100+ hour game and you’re gonna hear those same damn tracks so many times.
And the Open world theme is horrible
Go to claim rewards in settings and change to DQ8 over world OST. So much better than DQXI
This game actually had unique and memorable towns. Wasted potential to give each town its own unique theme fitting the design. Each town was clearly inspired by real world cultures.
The english translation of the game's title "Echoes of an Elusive age" really does have a hidden meaning when thinking about how this game hearkens back to the oldchool days of game design and aesthetics, i.e. it "echoes" a now elusive era of gaming.
Not to mention the post credit scene after you finish the game too.
That's deep. I love it.
Niiiiiiice!
I don't think it's very elusive.
I just realized after posting that you beat me to it but how can it ever be avoided? Haha.
6:58 I actually loved the way the game handled Sylvando. Yes, at first I thought he was going to be an annoying, outdated stereotype. But the game never makes fun of him, quite the contrary. The party members join in on his jokes, no one ever belittles him for it. Instead he is presented as being just a very nice and cool person. The entire cast is likeable but he probably gets all the best lines and moments in the game.
That’s because sylvando do is very dependable and mysterious. He’s odd but also very likable. He embodies the flamboyant 90s character that would just be made into the gay character of made today by another developer.
@@firenze6478 Seems legit. From what little I've spoiled of Sylvando for myself thus far, he's the comic relief but he's more than that. He's got his own bits of personal depth in his backstory and probably any arcs about him, in addition to just being a guy who's very comfortable and proud of who he is.
Don’t forget the allegory to being gay they make with Sylvando joining the circus instead of being an army and his dad initially not being happy about it but by the end openly embracing his son’s choices.
@@AlexRN LGBT+ allegories are always good. As much as I feel representation matters, they're easily heavy-handed. So being subtle about it helps, especially for those who pick up on it, understand the meaning and enjoy it more. ;)
@@raziyatheseeker yes, I always hated representation when it was obviously done only for representations sake. Characters shouldn't exist only to fulfill an agenda. Sylvando meanwhile feels essential to the team and the themes of the story. And since the story doesn't care about sexuality, or gender, or whatever you can interpret here, the game doesn't dwell on it. I like that.
Take a shot every time you hear “90’s”.
Insturctions unclear passed out and woke up in a hospital
I do agree with alot of what he said but seriously he talks about the 90s way too much. The whole video is just a long winded way of saying that he likes the game because it reminds him of the old school JRPGs he used to play in the 90s.
Beat me to it haha
That’s how you rank videos. You use the keyword in the title, and then spam in in the video. People who search ‘90’s games’ will see this at the top of their search if the video also retains viewers once they have clicked on it.
pretty funny too, because this game style isn't 90s.. it's straight from the 80s. i imagine this guy is fairly young though.
DQ xi is one of my favorite games of the last decade, along with skyrim and breath of the wild.
That's a fantastic choice, sir.
señor-achopijo thank you, kind sir!
Breath of the Wild feels way too hard. I only have two hearts at all times
LordLightning 23 sorry to hear that, i myself am actually really good at breath of the wild i play it on master mode all the time lol. anyways i hope you can get better at, it’s truly a work of art once you get the hang of it.
@@bradenjames2769 It feels so empty and the weapons break all too easily
"Games aren't made like they used to be.." Boi you ain't lying. The way RPGs cutscenes could envoke emotion. Connection to pixelated fantasy characters. Tellah no!!! 😆
It's like the old situation of turning books into movies. Because there are no visuals, the reader creates their own image of what things would look like only to have the movie adaptation turn out very differently. In the same vein, pixel animation creates an unfinished picture where the imagination is tasked to complete it. Modern animation leaves nothing to interpretation and in my opinion, is often executed poorly.
@@nothingtoseehere6142 I agree and strongly disagree.
@@nothingtoseehere6142 I don't think that is quite the case. Old and new games still had visuals, so you didn't need to imagine much. Cutscenes. However, how the scenarios were presented and the writing is what makes the difference. FF XV was full of cutscenes, but it was poorly executed and writing was weak.
You spoony bard!
@@blumiu2426 im my play expierience game with pixel evoke more emotion because u fill in the gap example being octopath traveler the vizual for life steal move is just therion pointing the knife back and forth in my head he does the anime shit double slash with cold stares but as with everything in the world to each their own
The “only 90s kids will remember” energy is so strong in this video
I feel it ↑ ~ it's a never ending feeling of being out of place in modern days... I miss it so much...
But like didn’t dragon quest come out in the 80s?
@@myristicina. Technically that was Dragon Warrior. Hehehe.
@@livingminimumwage6359 I meaaaan, it was only called Dragon Warrior in the US (or the west? was it released in Europe?) to avoid copyright issues. It was still called Dragon Quest back then in the country it was actually from
@@myristicina. Yup, it was literally the first turn based jrpg.
It was so perfectly executed in its simplicity. No gimmicks, just a gorgeous dragon quest game. It was literally simply amazing.
I have a different theory.
Every person who creates something has their own individual style that always shows through in their work. It's very possible that some of the original Dragon Quest designers are still making Dragon Quest games today. What you call "90's" style might actually just be the individual creative styles of the same people who have been designing games ever since the 90's.
Yeah Yuji Horii is still the lead scenario writer for Dragon Quest. Him and his Armor Project studio are the number 1 reasons why even though other developers have handled the development of previous DQ games (Heartbeat DQ6-7, Level 5 DQ8-9, Square Enix DQ10-11), the series is still able to maintain its charm and design philosophies.
Yup. Final Fantasy or SE has lost most of its team, left with only Kitase and Nomura now. Thus, the problem. This is a situation where they need someone new to take over, whereas Dragon Quest has a formula that just works with it. I think the same goes for Persona and how that has increased in popularity. However, there is a mindset that likely exists with older developers and their approach to games compared to younger devs. They are used to sacrifice and pouring themselves into a game. They lived when they were able to be creative with games where that is no longer the case at SE.
BluMiu honestly I think Nomura is one of the reasons for Final Fantasy’s identity crisis and it has to do with his obsession with trying to create battle systems that are flashy and action oriented like Kingdom Hearts. Just look at FF15 and FF7 Remake (I know about the “ATB system” they put in but let’s be honest it’s not)
@@gamerprince-tl5hg wasn't 9 developed by Bird Studio?
@@MrSerpico145 Nah Bird Studio is Akira Toriyama's manga/art studio. not game developer. Level-5, alongside Armor Project developed DQ9
*Dragon Question XI Is A Perfect Game and its my favorite of the decade by far, its JRPG comfort food in its finest quality 😩 and don't get me started on that PHENOMENAL switch version smh.
Dragon Quest XI is my pick as top game of the decade. Over the past 10 years, I’ve never had a more enjoyable experience in video games.
EPS5000 try divinity original sin 2 😊
Over Witcher 3 ? divinity 2 ? Breath of the Wild ? Come on man
Frank Marano midi music? They used a real orchestra
Norel Nieves well if you’ve put the time into divinity original sin 2 you’d see but hey maybe you’d see that it’s reasonably in the debate
Enigmalake I did, even the opening chapter was far more varied than 90% of DQ games.
DQ is a painfully straightforward series, there are no twist or turns, is a straight line.
Is a good Average JRPG Tho.
I never played dragon quest a friend of mind told me to try this on switch. So i got it when covid started. I was hooked once instarted put in maybe 200 hours...i loved every aspect...the characters...the store..the music. It was a masterpiece i fell in love with it and started buying all other games...cant wait for DQ12
Love the video, but how many time can you say “it’s a 90s game?” It detracts from the points you are trying to make.
What points was he even trying to make apart from "it's a 90s game" without ever explaining what he means by that?
@@FullForce098 , yeah this really felt like a filler video.
im so glad people are palying and talking about this game, im so greatfull for smash
Same! Even if I knew it would generate mixed reactions, its addition to Smash brought what I have been questing for all along: Knowledge of its existence.
Eternally grateful ♥
I'd say this game as well as the 3 Xenoblade games have been my favorite JRPGs of the past decade. Nothing has come close to capturing their charm and feel, at least to me. Final Fantasy has tried with the 13 series and 15, but none of them contained the heart and soul I look for in a JRPG.
Exactly the same for me (except I haven't played Xenoblade X yet) and you can add DQX to the list. These games trump anything FF has put out in the last 10 years.
ehhh. I love xenoblade 1 and never played x. But I played 2 and I didn't like how slow the battles were, but if it wasn't for that, it looks good.
@@Mingodough In my opinion, Xenoblade 2 has the best battle system. The original's is still good and all, but compared to those that came afterwards it feels kinda shallow.
Xenoblade is what MODERN final fantasy should've been.
@@AshXXMayftw It's in depth and all, but for me personally doing attack cancels, timing right, blade combos etc, the battles took too long. Like I'd fight an enemy at the same level as me and take 3 minutes, and that's how long it took for random encounters, the original is more shallow, but the second one I personally feel doing the same thing (in this case killing random peps on the overworld) but slower, and it destroys the pace for me.
DQ has always been a 90's game. It feeds on that homely familiar-ish nostalgic feeling.
except when it was an 80s game
The sad part is that until Final Fantasy X, no one was confused about what to expect from a new Final Fantasy.
All those saying “changing is part of the FF formula” are conflating evolution with change.
To all those saying “what makes a Final Fantasy is the story and the lore,” all I can say is that the combat system is the “game” part of a Final Fantasy video game. If story is all that matters, it might as well be a movie.
Final Fantasy invented a flavour of a turn-based battle system and innovated on it with each release, and the part that “changed” and where they “explored new avenues” was the character progression system that nurtured it.
Of course story is just as important as the game, and I’d argue that those two elements are joined by the style of music to form the three pillars of what made Final Fantasy such a treasure. The latest (XVI) seems to have none of it-it’s an overly dark and serious Game of Thrones-like story with a Devil May Cry-like battle system, and a far too dramatic score (as far as I can tell) that over-uses a choir which diminishes the value of a choir when there is one.
Notice all the “[something]-like” in there? Yeah. It used to be that others tried to make “the next Final Fantasy.” Nowadays, Final Fantasy wants to be “the next [insert popular game here].”
Just as when you hear “Street Fighter,” regardless of the story, the “game” you expect to play is a fighting game, or when I say “Gran Turismo,” you expect to play a racing game, when you hear “Final Fantasy,” you should expect to play a unique fast-paced turn-based JRPG. That’s what makes it a “video game” series. Without that, the word “series” is just wind.
Turning Final Fantasy into “the next God of War” is not “exploring new avenues.”
What I like about DQ's simplicity is that it's a franchise that doesn't need the next game asap. We can enjoy the current game knowing that the next one will have all the staples the franchise has been stuck with since the 90s.
And that huge twist in the end? Precious ❤
One of my favorite games I've ever played. Deserves all the recognition it can receive.
You had me with the title, because that's just about the highest praise there is.
This is a 90’s game in 2019! Isn’t that insane? It’s a 90’s game in 2019. This never happens, especially not in 2019 because 2019 isn’t the 90’s. Other companies might make 90’s games, but Triple A companies don’t make 90’s games, especially not in 2019. I definitely felt as though 2019 was not the year for 90’s games, but Dragon Quest XI truly is the pinnacle of 90’s games not made in the 90’s. Maybe if I just keep saying the same few sentences in different ways, and never actually discuss why this is important or what a 90’s game actually is or how it’s different to games today, they’ll eventually get my point. This game from 2019 reminds me of the 90’s!
The thing with DQ development is, 11's development went through an initial hurdle none of the others have. Typically the announcement of the next title is approximately 4~5 months after the release of the previous. Then another 6~7 months down the line, we see the first pictures, about the time the previous game is released world wide. However, each time the formal development announcement came, the system was named with it.
Usually this is due to having easy console pickings: DQ's until DQ9, when to the best home console for new mainline games. The console with the highest sales-through rate or the highest general potential sales-through rate in Japan. So NES -> SNES -> Playstation -> Playstation 2. In the era of the Nintendo DS, the handhelds took over, and Japan saw a dramatic drop in popularity for home consoles (thanks to the Japanese government directly insinuating gaming habits were for children, but mobile gaming was acceptable for adults, so handheld gaming systems and mobile gaming took over).
By the time of DQ10, the Wii was the clear winner of the console wars, and had actually done reasonably well in Japan. Though at a snail's pace compared to previous console generations.
In the case of DQ11, there wasn't a clear winner of any kind. The handheld gaming market was substantially slower in Japan. Horii was even asked if he would be making DQ11 for smartphones given all trends back in 2014, just after he announced he began the planning stages for DQ11, and a few months later, Square-Enix announced DQ11 was formally under development.
Unlike previous games, it took them another year after the formal development announcement to announce the systems. So they weren't even sure of the development kits. They even experimented heavily with Epic's engine, as Horii wanted to do mainline consoles, but PS4 sales were far slower than any previous generation in Japan at the time, though it held the lead, and stats implied the majority of owners in Japan were adults 25+, the main market for DQ games (mobile had taken over the children's market, thanks to the gradual decline in consoles thanks to Japan's ministers helping to kill an industry...and Japanese families by assuring husbands are away for 15~18 hours a day, almost 6 days a week...wooo, Japan!). They even made a mini version of DQ3 in Epic's engine, as a test case. However it seems like most of the time was deciding on engines and which console to use, with far less done on actual game planning and direction.
They announced development in June of 2014, and the consoles at the end of July of 2015. So official real development happened around July of 2015, going forward. Retooling DQ7 3DS' engine for the 3DS version (which was the same engine used for DQ6 SFC, DQ3's SFC remake, DQ7 PS1, DQ4's PS1 remake, and DQ 4, 5, and 6 DS, with constant updates and retools for each new system...and is where all the DQ6 tilesets/etc. came from for 2D mode), and Epic's engine for the PS4, along with a planned NX (Switch) announcement.
After that, the timing for reveals and data is about on par with typical DQ games. So it's easy for me to say that while the announcement popped in June of 2014, Horii was planning/processing in April of 2014, the actual real game development period was between July of 2015 through to March, maybe April of 2017, leaving the rest to beta testing, then box-art, marketing, retail-deals, and printing copies while preparing online content (Japan is typically 90~97% physical sales, 3~10% digital, with a few exceptions). That's also the time they brought in the two extra teams, Orca for PS4, and I forget the one for the 3DS.
So real development time would be 1.75 years, and I guess if we consider beta testing and finalization, 1.83 years.
We also have the bonus of easier pickings for the next system: Switch is a clear winner even going forward into the future. They're now used to multiplatform, and given they can use Epic's engine from now on, that drastically reduces artist and 3D modeling. They can tweak and update textures if they need to. Plus for PS5 development, and if they want to do a PS4 release as well. There's a good chance the PS5 will be slow out the gate, if the price point rumours are true, we'll see PS3 numbers, not PS2/4, but that might be why Sony is postponing when the original plan was for 2019 Christmas and early 2019 disclosure...so they might be assuring hardware is cheaper. Anyway the point being the PS5 will be easy to develop on as well, especially if they use Epic's engine. Given DQ's tend to rehash near identical monster and character designs, the battle system is only slightly tweaked or added to between games (sometimes drastically behind the scenes...DQ9 from DQ8 had about as many gameplay changes as FF8 + FF9 did from FF1...yes, you wouldn't think so, given the veneer, but DQ's have a lot going on gameplay-wise behind the scenes, though without removing the basic super structure that holds it all together, DQ11 is also a drastic set of tweaks, rebalances, and changes to core elements from earlier games).
I expect to see DQ12 details in a few months, and release in 2021. This time world wide almost back to back (maybe a few months difference). DQ numbers are really low in Japan compared to all previous years. Switch should have seen more than double the numbers, and 3DS should have seen 3m+ alone in Japan. So they know they need to create a WW audience, especially as outside Japan, smartphone gaming isn't quite as prevalent due to social morays and appeal to general gaming audiences, even now with all the "Raid" whoring.
So expect stuff this year to wet your appetite.
What gives this game it's 90s feeling is the simplicity of it. You know exactly how everythig works the first time you play it. Any other modern RPG you need to play for 100 hours before you know how sh%t works. You can just enjoy the adventure without all the distractions that most modern games have.
Short answer is that Yuji Horii isn't an enormous fucking sellout, and he has a very time-tested formula for making the most boilerplate of boilerplate jRPGs, and adding just enough new story beats and character designs between iterations to allow it to stay... maybe not 'fresh', but 'well cured'. Like a bag of beef jerky, or a jar of preserves.
Thing with Final Fantasy, is that, while it does this to a lesser degree with some of its staple creatures and classes (moogles, cactaurs, chocobo, behemoths, black mages, white mages, dragoons, etc.), the setting of its worlds changes a lot more between sequel iterations than Dragon Quest. So while in Dragon Quest, you might get one vaguely pseudo-medieval EuroJapanese-inspired fantasy world that has a dream world layered on top (VI), and another that contains a previous game's entire overworld within it as a sort of underworld (III), and another that has a Laputa-style castle in the sky (IV, V, VI), the hybrid medieval EuroJapanese fantasy theming mostly remains consistent, whereas FFIV can be about a Kingdom of Sailor Moon-esque Lunar alien people with lost memories riding Mario 3 style propeller airships, VI can be set in a victorian steampunk setting with a Star Wars-esque evil empire that has discovered a way to rob the gods of their magic on an assembly line and make magical mech suits, and VII can be a sci-fi cyberpunk dystopia in a version of the Land Before Time where Cera's dad gets Hojo to replace its legs with tank treads as part of his mad-science monster-making fetish. And then there's X, which does away with medieval European pretensions altogether, and is instead a weird blend of Okinawan, Thailander, and South Pacific cultures, feeling at points like some kind of trip to Fantasy Hawaii.
When I played this game, my first thought was that it felt like I was playing a fairy tale and it was just so charming and fun
Final Fantasy is a trip. Dragon Quest is home.
Dragon Quest XI is fantastic. Completed it on PS4 and then the Classic mode on Switch. Loved both... but I would say 3D mode is the definitive way to play. I don't think I'll ever play classic again on future playthroughs.
Toriyamas art has always been the biggest draw to the series for me and the biggest problem with the series up until DQ8 was the very limited presentation of them with minimal animations and graphics. I only want to play this game in 3D
I think my problem is that the SNES Dragon Quest games were never as cutscene/character heavy as DQXI. And unlike FFV AND VI, the characters don't have emotive animations that would make these cutscenes more engaging.
Dope video bro DQXI is probably my fave RPG of the last decade beautiful game characters and the story pulls u in
This game hits different. Its so nostalgic and amazing, easily my favorite game of all time. Felt like I was watching a great movie. Reminds me of reading Lord Of The Rings and Dragonlance Chronicles
I see it as a G-rated retelling of Berserk 😂
This is why Squeenix needs to keep their effing hands off changing DQ, we love it because it is the comfort food of RPGs.
I need that legend of dragoon remake in my life ASAP.
I'd trade my first born child for a LoD remake.
There’s someone doing a remake in RPG Maker. I recommend you google it, since the dev has a channel.
@@Light-vl6sr I've seen that, and I don't want to be disrespectful but IMO that project is a downgrade from the original game. I know it'll never happen, but I'm only interested in a proper remake ala Resi 2 or FF7. Even if they remade it to the standard of something like Lost Odyssey I'd be ecstatic, but an RPG Maker reboot of a then AAA game makes no sense to me.
By law of surprise I demand: LoD remake NOW!
(Keep the game's spirit pliz, do not turn it into a action-cheesy-slimey-game)
Sylvando slander will not be tolerated.
"Games aren't what they used to be... it's just a feeling, an emotion..."
Yes, they call that nostalgia.
The dialogue and voice acting was perfect. I found nothing cheezy to tell you the truth.
Thats a shame. DQ is supposed to be a bit cheesy
@@asasassify No, it isn't
@@Sam-gs2wq lol then you're blind
Sam yes it is. It has that same dragon ball humor
Playing this game genuinely made me feel like I was reliving my childhood, making me remember some of the greatest moments I've ever had playing rpgs since I was a kid. It brought me back to a place I never thought I would get to experience again. It captures the classic rpg vibe so well that it actually made me feel like I was back in the 90's/early 2000's.
Exactly and that’s the reason why I love it. Games nowadays don’t have that same impact.
I highly recommend playing Ni No Kuni: Wrath of the White Witch if you haven't already. It's very similar to this game (apart from the battle system) and has that old school charm that most games don't these days.
Great game
Great recommendation. I think Ni No Kuni Wrath of the White Witch also captures the magic of retro games.
I also think its another example of trying to do something to appease gamers of today. (Look at the combat system in the second game)
I'm pretty peeved about how people how people bandy about the term "FF disease" after Tabata as if the 9 first games in FF weren't really consistent in most substantive ways (types of story, music, world structure, battle system and a blend of fantasy and sci fi elements).
Yes, FF innovated with each title, the changes largely centered around tweaks to combat, and character progression with gradual shifts in the gradient between classic fantasy and sci fi - but there was a clear direction and style to the games.
The substantive changes didn't begin until 10, with the removal of the classic world map and the introduction of co-composers, and weren't solidified until 11(12 if you only count the single player entries).
FF disease isn't a thing. It's a dumb marketing strategy employed by Tabata and Square et al in a bid to confound the conversation and make it seem like the post FF9/10 gen of FF fans cultivated on crap like Advent Children have an equal claim to the identity of FF when SE decided to ditch their original core fanbase in pursuite of the action RPG and action adventure crowds who never genuinly liked FF for what it was and who would only ever consider playing them once they looked like Advent Children and had combat to match.
Guess what though, until FF has 18+ games with 9+ of them being less like FF1-9, there is no claim there.
FF didn't definitely lose it's direction until around the wada era, starting softly with 10 and at its most apparent with 15.
Pretending otherwise is obtuse and just plain wrong.
Don't get me wrong though - It's SE's franchise, and they're free to experiment and change FF to whatever degree they want.
The thing that bothers me isn't as much the change, as it is this strategy to pretend as if this degree of change was always in the cards for the franchise and trying to obfuscate that by pretending FF never had a consistent spirit and overall design in the first place.
SE doesn't have to pander to oldschool fans like myself, but I'd appreciate if they didn't try to undermine our voices and insult our intelligence by pretending our falling out with the franchise isn't concretely the result of it having been turned into something radically different from what it once was and not in a natural progression from its earlier entries.
I think the FF disease totally is a thing. I mean you’re putting FF1-9 together like it’s one entity, but in reality they’re not that closely related. I grew up with the Nintendo era. When FF7 came out, it was nothing like the other games at the time. Sure there were mascots that were relatable, but it was completely different game to what came before. My brother and cousins actually didn’t like FF7 at first because to them it didn’t “feel like Final Fantasy”. FF is a unique series because 1. Each game is designed to be different. 2. It was a niche series in the west until FF7 made it popular. Now you have millions of people walking into a series that is a decade old at that time thinking “this is what Final Fantasy is”. But it’s not. FF can be whatever it wants to be. That’s how HS designed it in the first place. He has stated that the heart of the series is redefining it with each entry and challenging yourself from the ground up. If you’re wanting to get technical about one single identity, the newer era of FF (XI-XV) has much more to do with the original concepts and themes of the original games than the popular era of FF (7-10). Warriors of light, crystals, chosen ones, etc
@@optimysticquest
No, it really isn't - unless ironically, we're talking about the people who, confusedly, propagate the myth that the core part of FF leading up to Sakaguchi leaving SE after the Wada takeover never had a consistent spirit or design other than "radical change".
It's funny to me you talk about "how in reality 1-9 weren't that close to eachother", despite the fact that in my original post I outlined several specific ways in which they were. You, on the other hand, follow your assertion with no argument as to how supposedly distinct they were, except with a really poor anecdote that only speaks to how certain people felt but with no factual substance.
It's even more ironic that you try to draw a distinction between 6 and 7, when aside from the new 3D graphics, near everything about FF6 and FF7 are highly similar and follows a trend of iteration dating back to FF4.
- Worldmap, still there.
- Command battles, still there.
- Uematsu soundtrack, still there.
- Quirky and diverse cast of misfits trying to save the world from a global threat, still there.
- The magicite and materia system clearly iterative of eachother.
- Desperation attacks and limit breaks, clearly iterative of eachother.
- Emphasis on minigames to break up the standard gameplay loop, check.
- Fantasy and scifi/steampunk blend, check.
Each game in the original was designed to tell a new story and to iterate on certain base concepts and features to, in the words of Sakaguchi himself, "keep things fresh".
This is not the same as radically altering the formula or removing entire gameplay aspects or turning them on their head.
That's a false equivalency and is apparent by the fact that non of the titles leading up to 10 did this.
They all shared a strong DNA, as apparent by the traits I listed above, several of which began going missing or change entirely post FF10, but not before it.
Nowhere did I say FF cannot be whatever it wants to be. Any franchise can do that. It's the purview of any creator to be able to do what they want with their intellectual properties. I said as much in my OP.
That's neiter here nor there however.
The argument is whether or not FF ever had an identity to speak of above and beyond "radical change" or "reinvention" and whether it even makes sense to claim that those words characterize the majority of the franchise the best when you actually bother to look past surface level aesthetics.
The fact though, is that it doesn't, and your "argument"(list of assertions) here is as hollow as the lazy market slogan of "FF disease".
I dare you to find a quote that has Sakaguchi saying FF was about redefining it with every entry outside of speaking about narrative and setting.
Meanwhile, let me provide some choice quotes by the man himself :
The Guardian - JRPG legend Hironobu Sakaguchi :
"I have a formula from the 25 years experience I have in the industry - an RPG formula," he says. "Which is a turn-based, orthodox JRPG."
IGN - Interview with Hironobu Sakaguchi
Q: "What is your favorite Final Fantasy title? And please tell us why you chose that particular game."
A: "The upcoming Final Fantasy IX. This title (currently under development) is based on a reflection of all the previous works in the series. The coming installment is my "favorite," it's closest to my ideal view of what Final Fantasy should be. But, I've set my standards too high, so I think there's room for more Final Fantasy titles to come."
Metro Entertainment -
The Last Story Hironobu Sakaguchi interview
GC:Chrono Trigger is one of my favourites, but I could never understand why other games didn’t use it as a new template - and why they carried on with the more traditional Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest style. Did you hope at the time that it would have more influence than it ultimately did?
HS:
"I think the fundamental reason why turn-based RPGs existed for so long is simply because Japanese users preferred that style and therefore as professionals we wanted to create games that everyone would enjoy. Which is why I myself continued with the Final Fantasy style and so the fundamental reason for the lack of change is that there wasn’t a demand for it, at least in Japan. It’s not like there no other games similar to the style of Chrono Trigger, it’s probably because the games weren’t localised and didn’t reach the Western audience"
Sum summarum :
You're simply wrong, period.
FF, at its most quintessential is best reflected by FFIX, the accumulation of the 8 previous titles, as classic, orthodox JRPGs - In Sakaguchi's own word "Final Fantasy style".
End of story.
The games changed very little in the ways that mattered outside of graphics, story/setting and character progression mechanics, because in Sakaguchi's own words - There was no need for it.
That need arose with the PS2 era, and happened towards the tail-end of 10 and anyone with basic media literacy and/or who aren't clouding what they want FF to be due to a preference for its current direction can tell that if they look at it.
hian Final Fantasy IV changed the battle system. FFI-III were strict turn-based. FFIV invented the ATB system. That was taking advantage of newer technology and progressing the series. And I do disagree with you that very little was changed outside of graphics, story/setting and all that. The core concept and theme of the HS era (outside of FFII) was warriors of light, prophesy, chosen ones, crystals etc. I used FFVII as an example of being nothing like that because that’s when FF became mainstream in the west. That’s when people actually knew what it was and were introduced to it. I am not saying at all that I had a problem with that. I have extensively played FF since FFI. I love all the changes that have been made to the series over time. Sakaguchi said seeking new challenges is the true nature of the series. He also really loved FFXV, which he said captured the spirit of the originals. Sakaguchi is all about challenging himself. The Last Story exists and that isn’t traditional turn based. FFIX was originally going to be a gaiden project, but was then made a numbered installment to show the newcomers of the series that there isn’t a single formula to use for FF and to show them what FF used to be like. The fanbase overall didn’t like FFIX much when it came out because it didn’t “feel like Final Fantasy”.
Saying I’m wrong when I’m pointing out the flaws of how the fanbase has viewed the series since the beginning? My brother and cousins didn’t like FF7 at first because it didn’t feel like FF to them. FFIX was essentially crapped on by the “fanbase” at that time. I mean, you can’t say the FF disease doesn’t exist. Most people won’t even give the Hironobu Sakaguchi (directed) era a chance. It’s all FF7-10 for most people. Sometimes 6. But anything before or after that isn’t even given the light of day. Yes overall the gameplay has changed the most since the PS2 era, but that is for modernizing with the times. FFIV did the very same thing when it changed the battle system.
@@optimysticquest
Good job providing no argument of substance and outright ignoring every single point that firmly deflates your overall assertions (like every single actual Sakaguchi quote I provided you).
The ATB is a change to the battle system - it does not however constitue the entire battle system being changed.
In Japan, strict turns and ATB are both subcategories of "command based battle systems" which is what westerners regularly confuse as "turn based battle systems".
This change is considered an iteration, not a radical overhaul or reinvention.
You again demonstrate a complete inability to grapple with the substance of this distinction, and so this will be the last time I say it :
Conflating reinvention or radical change with minor iterations is a false equivalency.
I do not deny that the latter happened over time, I deny that it is charitable to interpret the majority of the franchise as being best described by the former.
The reason doing so is utterly ridiculous, is because literally every franchise, including DQ, does this and we don't talk of games like Suikoden or Breath of Fire as being best defined by radical change or not having a particular spirit.
Ultimately, FF1-9 clearly share more structural elements between eachother than post FF10 titles do with any of them internally.
It's also fairly rich that you spend time talking about narrative differences such as the presence of crystals (FFVII had crystals all over btw - not only the materia, literally described as crystalized life energy, but also present in the city of the ancients) or the heroes of light when I specifically granted that narrative/story is the specific part of FF that was always changing as a part of the franchise's formula - ironically, another aspect that SE now routinely shits on by pumping out sequels to the mainline entries.
I think it's becoming pretty clear you're not actually reading what you're responding to here.
You also don't seem to grasp the substance of my critique of FF disease. I am not saying there doesn't exist people with different views of what the spirit of FF is - what I am saying is that the term is used as a way of saying everyone is equally right in their take on what FF is/was because "FF was never something clearly identifiable in the first place (except change apparently) - which is patently false.
This is what I disagree with.
The majority of FF, that is to say FF1-9 , shared a majority of their frameworks and followed a clear line of iteration within a specific formula.
I've given you a very specific list of those elements and your response has been "but they introduced the ATB with 4" and "the storytelling saw a shift", non of which substantively addresses anything on that list.
Pretending FF disease applies here is disingenuous and wrong.
There's nothing about that take which warrants the term FF disease. If anything it should refer to people like you who bend over backwards with mental gymnastics to pretend as if the majority of FF titles up until 10 don't share a strong shared DNA.
They do, and the titles post 10 less and less so.
Your appeal to how people don't give the older titles a chance speak nothing to this point. That's a part of what I am critiquing and why I loath this concept, because it tries to equate the perspective on the franchise as a whole between a group of people who actually have played it as a whole and have an accurate appreciation of its trajectory over the decades with people that clearly don't.
I have provided a clear argument for why that is so with clear quotes of the father of FF himself corroborating this.
The fact that he went on to make the Last Story or endorsed FFXV aren't even relevant in the slightest and the fact you thought so speaks to your inability to structure an argument with proper causality.
It's specifically in interviews on the Last story, from which I pulled two of my previous quotes.
The Last Story's design was purposefully, in Sakaguchi's own words, a radical departure from his FF formula for the purpose of appealing more to a western audience.
His endorsement of FFXV on the other hand has nothing to do with whether or not it embodies the spirit of earlier FF games.
For one, it was a paid promotion, and secondly, Sakaguchi is on record saying FF is SE's to do with as they place.
Nothing about that speaks to whether Sakaguchi thinks FFXV is consistent with his earlier works.
In fact, by your own examples, that could not be the case.
If The Last Story was a radical departure from the FF formula in Sakaguchi's view, given that FFXV has more in common structurally with it than older FF titles, it too must be a radical departure from the classic FF formula.
Of course, that should be readily apparent given that Sakaguchi thinks FFIX is the ideal of what FF should be, but then again, you conveniently ignored that quote.
And with that I'll give you the last word. If your latest reply is anything to go by, I have no doubt you'll keep speaking past the point while ignoring the arguments and quotes that inconvenience your point of view.
I have only so much time to spend on motivated reasoners.
hian wow that is a lot of labeling. I am only making points as to how people perceive the series differently. I am not going to deny that the overall gameplay has changed the most since the PS2 era. However, depending on when you enter the series has historically determined how people perceive any change at all. And it’s easy when you come into a series after big changes to not care much about how it has changed before then. I am all about having a conversation about this, but I do not want to entertain someone who tries to demean the other in the conversation. I was never rude to you at all. And if HS said that FFXV does capture the spirit of the originals, and it does in almost every thematic category, how is that not a part of the series’ “spirit”? FFXI and FFXIV also do this. FF7’s crystal references are certainly not the same as how the crystals are in the old era. I’m not crapping on FF7. I love FF7. Also, in terms of battle system, wouldn’t FF10 11 12 13 and 14 count in your argument? They are menu based and all follow a turn-based or ATB derivative. FFXV isn’t menu-based, but appears to be Sakaguchi’s favorite for a long time. You can say it’s a paid endorsement, and I’m sure he was paid to appear at the FFXV event. However he met often with Tabata about the vision and development for the game.
I recently did a reflective review and analysis on FFXV. Feel free to watch and tear it apart. This was only meant to be a conversation and no contention as you seem to be leading with it. I can’t respond to every word you said. If this was an actual conversation and not a text log on a UA-cam video, I would love to have a full conversation on the topic. Feel free to post on my discussion page and we can work out those details:)
Here's to hoping Yakuza: Like a Dragon Quest lives up to it's title! XD
It won't. It's goofy, it's comedy. It will be different, but it will be amazing
@@weusedtobeangels Have you even seen the story?
Yakuza LAD is amazing. One of the best english voice acted games ever made.
You really sold me on this. I was quite fond of DQ8 on the PS2, even though the game was very basic even by the standard of the time then. Looking forward to try this too once I have the time.
Did you play the post game content because that added a series of extra bosses and added a change to the ending
Sadly the ending wasn't fully different like the optional endings in the remake
@@phoenixshadow4631 Yes, and that really changed my overall impression for the better
@@EzioYuio well that's good wish you luck with any remaining content for 11 such as Draconian Quest or Tockington (if you have the switch version)
Take it from someone who didn't enjoy DQ8 that much: This is GLORIOUS!
"I understand everything has to be hip, and woke, and modern these days." Couldn't agree more.
YES YOU'RE FINALLY DOING A VIDEO ON THIS GAME
I'll always take interactive mechanics over mind-blowing graphics any day of the week. Final Fantasy seems to put graphics first, and everything else second. Yet I still play FFVII the most and have as much fun as I did as a child, with its pixelated Popeye-armed characters.
Agreed, I will always prefer games that ARE fun over the ones that LOOK fun. So many games these days try to look cool while you just watch, like Uncharted with its "cinematic gameplay".
That's all these games are anymore. There was no depth or character in dq11, just pretty lights.
@@rafnork9325 Really? I thought that Sylvando and Rab were pretty interesting characters, and *spoilers*
Serena losing Veronica and learning to become her own person was a great moment of character growth. In fact, the characters develop so much in this game that I became angry when the game was like "go back and time and fix everything", removing everything you've worked for.
@@Jordan3DS Serena got her tiny bit of growth that was never talked about again. There was no build up to Veronica's sacrifice, there was no shock either, it seems like it should have been flushed out a bit more.
I hate that they used time travel as a cop out, but the game did get more fun in the third part. The stories were better and minor character development did happen.
@Toxic Butch That's your (trash) opinion.
My favorite game of this generation.
DQ11
Tales of Berseria
Persona 5
Loz BotW
were my favorites this gen
Same.
@@SuiteLifeofDioBrando Same
FF was my series until XIII. I’m now with DQ. Bless the hearts of those who still find enjoyment in FF but i can’t.
Have you played the Xenoblade Chronicles series? Gives me the FF vibes sometimes.
FF is literally dead after 10 for me, my favorites 8
@Final Fantasy I never said it did, all I did, was share a thought that I have about a game series, I never said people aren't allowed to acknowledge 12 and onwards did I?
And if it sounds like I did, I apologise, but that wasn't the intent
DQ always retains the same tropes, music, storylines and writing....it isnt 90s. Its earlier than that.
For long time dq fans its what they expect.
As for fans being on different sides when it comes to DQ or FF, erm never heard of it or experienced it, where Im from and from what I've seen, there isnt a so called division, it isnt DQ fans or FF fans, its just JRPG fans.
People who love FF or just Square games in general also loved Enix, also loved the jrpgs from Konami, Bandai, Namco, Irem, Capcom, Sega, Nihon Falcom, Tecmo, Koei, Atlus, Gamearts etc etc.
Never understood the need and the obsession to create divisions between the same sets of fans, the west seems to love to do this all too often. Undermine or reach for a negative aspect of something to make out that the other thing is better.
Just enjoy each release on its own merit, flaws and all, like the rest of the world does.
A lot of Westerners didn't grow up with DQ, that is why a division exists in the fandom.
I don't think he was pointing at any actual division, thought it had existed back in the day when they weren't merged. Most people that played Final Fantasy wouldn't touch Dragon Quest and many of them weren't even released here then. Everyone has their favorites, which they prefer. Competition exists in all cultures, look at sports. It seems more childish in gaming, but it is human nature. I think you're only attributing it to the West is entirely wrong and bias on your part, so a little reaching in there, eh?
Japan definitely has favorites when it comes to manga, picking your favorite anime character and things like that in big polls by companies. So again, you're quite wrong.
@@blumiu2426 that may have existed one way but it certainly didn't exist the other. Dragon Quest fans had no problem playing Final Fantasy games, largely because it was more popular and it's what you'd talk about with friends.
In my case the final fantasy fans I knew didn't know about dragon quest. I let one borrow my gameboy color copy of 3 and he loved it.
@@RedOphiuchus That's how it worked out, yes, though there is always one group that start out playing the other somehow. It was somewhat encouraged as Square and Enix had been competing for two decades.
I couldn’t agree more. My first JRPG was dragon warrior for nes, and have loved JRPGs since
here’s a transcript: “Remember the 90s? The 90s were so much better. Everything was better in the 90s. Here is the 90s; if you do not remember, you did not have a childhood. You were not a child. You retroactively did not exist. Remember Bobby’s World? It was a good show! You’re too young to remember. It was a good show! We had Nintendo 64. You don’t. Things were better then. Now all is lost. We had: Nintendo games, bowling alleys, pizza parties, Macdonald’s, skating rinks, ice cream, Nickelodeon, Cartoon Network, Elmer’s Glue, safety scissors, Tootsie Rolls, Combos, swimming pools, OJ Simpson, Green Day; we had Green Day. What do kids these days have? Nothing. The 90s are over. All that’s left is despair. The day the 90s died, all joy died. This generation. They don’t know. They don’t know. Kids these days. Kids these days. This generation. They don’t know. They missed out. Also i hate it when they put gays in my video games. I can’t stand flamboyant fucking faggots.”
I found you guys a couple years ago when you were still "the dark pixel" and I gotta say, you guys continue to have one of the best little channels out there. Keep putting out the great content! ♥️
I don’t hate on Final Fantasy constantly experimenting. FFVII has a bigger impact than DQVII for a reason. I enjoy FFXII & FFXV as much as I did with DQVIII & DQXI
Dragon Quest XI totally looks like my jam, but I just can’t bring myself to start any 100+ hour games these days. I find most games that long REALLY start to drag at the 50-60 hour mark. That’s why the awesome JRPGs from the 90’s seem infinitely replayable. They’re usually a “brisk” 20-30 hour experience that you can have fun breezing through multiple times.
That's the biggest obstacle between me and Xenoblade...can't take all the sidequests
I don't need any story mode longer 30-35 hours, honestly. The knowledge of the colossal length is what has prevented me from really diving into Persona 5.
@@cloudkitt dont worry chap. If you dont like the 100+ hour P5, you can always go the 130+ hour ROOOOYAL edition!
Finished DQ XI in 70 hours doing a LOT of sidequests. Just go for it, you can finish it in less time if you rush a little bit
I just really really REALLY hope we get a DQ12 close to this game
I think it'll be better
Well actually no they said DQ12 will go a little more mature
@@noctissama3146 yeah, i just hope the gameplay is the same, story can be dramatic and dark but i love DQ11s graphics and characters
They said that it would change some things *FEAR*
Well I'll be damned. This was damn good. Not only did you gain a subscriber just now, you made me extremely reminiscent of days long since passed and for that I'm grateful. It was fun, reminded me of what I miss about older games. And the Emperors New Grove cut was an nice touch 😂Good stuff man, thank you 🙌🏿
Tl;dw: He says "Dragon Quest XI is a 90's game" like a billion times without once explaining what that even means or what he even liked about the game besides nostalgia.
But he does make sure we know he hates Sylvando.
Also he goes on a 4-minute rant about Final Fantasy for some reason.
Agreed.
Welcome to a decent chunk of the DQ fanbase.
I love Dragon Quest, and I love long videos about Dragon Quest (like, Tim Rogers' content is fantastic), but yeah. I really hated this video, I kept waiting for his point to come and it just never did.
I mean, I agree with almost everything he said except i actually thought DQXI was modernized a little too much. I think DQ8 is a lot better.
Just some bitter FF fuckboi with garbage old ass review(s) for a nearly 3 year old game
Veronica is just a straight up savage
It's like some kind of echo of an elusive age
Dq11 have me the same feeling I used to have when playing classic final fantasy and classic Jrpgs in my youth. Excellent game
I mean I love all the Final Fantasy games, even XIII and XV. They're all great games. I think it just depends on what you're looking for in your JRPG. If you have an open mind, they're all really fun and great in their own way. I think Dragon Quest's gameplay just feels nostalgic because it has the same gameplay from JRPGs in the 90s. So another reason it feels amazing compared to Final Fantasy is the nostalgic gameplay. In other words, nostalgia is making the 90s games look better. The important thing to realize is nostalgia is very powerful and it can cloud your judgment. Give modern games a chance and you'll enjoy them. Play older games and appreciate what they did. But saying a game is great because 90s is kind of biased and not fair to games of today.
Finished the game last year and it's now become one of my favorite games in the last decade. It's such a phenomenal JRPG to experience. From its characters to its world, you'll end up loving them all throughout the journey, as many like me did. :,)
I had the same experience! I havent played a SQ game until this, and it made me feel like I was playing FFIX again or something!
This is an Enix game, tho. ;)
Damn right. In fact, this, Final Fantasy 9 & Chrono Trigger are my top to go RPG games. With Final Fantasy 6 & Mario & Luigi: Bowser's Inside Story coming really close.
Sylvando is amazing
DQ11 is amazing. So amazing
To be fair Dragon Quest 9 and 10 were on handheld consoles and action-RPG... Which is all the more a massive change as it's concerning the Dragon Quest series.
It's such an amazing and long game! And even if you stop playing at the second story arc, you still get a very satisfying ending, but what a great path to the true ending!
I have the ps4 version and I'm just at the arena, how long would you say is left?
@@sladey21 Long!My complete ending playthrough clocked in at around 120 hours. First one is at around 80.
This was a most enjoyable video.
Gaming is shaped by what's happening in the larger culture. For most average people in first world nations, the 90s were a time of stability and prosperity, whereas *everything* has been in question since 2001. I think that's why 90s games, like lots of media of the time, have that something that feels so comfy. It's not just your childhood nostalgia at work.
Final Fantasy, like most media, started asking those dark and disturbing questions that arise during bad times. It has morphed with the times. Whereas Dragon Quest decided early on that it would never change. We need both, but we've really been starved for the comfy side. Good to see a little bit of balance restored.
I'm sure a part of it was how young and inexperienced we were back in the day. TLoZ: Ocarina of Time is especially a good example. Best game of all time!! No. No way it comes close on my list but when it came out there was no game like it that people had experienced.
@Final Fantasy Please note that I said "part of it".
It still holds up very well today and at the time was pretty much the best game ever
@@firenze6478 I think there are things about Ocarina of Time that holds up well to this day. The art style, the sound design, the music all hold up well. Also I think it holds up well if you are new to 3d Zelda games and if you are into simple stories. I have beaten the game enough times that there is no challenge in playing the game anymore. No sense of danger means that there is no real feeling of adventure. Yes, back in the day there was nothing to compare it to. It was because no one had played a game quite like it that there was a sense of danger, excitement and adventure to it. But once you've explored it enough and gotten good at the combat its pretty easy. There are things about the design I really like but its just not enough to keep me interested in it. There are many games that outdo this game in many ways including zelda games.
As far as story and characters go there were even SNES games that had better more detailed stories than OoT as well as other things.
Mimic Warrior Artist you may just need a break from it, you play one game too long it doesn’t matter how much you like it eventually it’s going to get frustrating to play.
Let’s not forget that this was the first game barring ff6 where the bad guy wins and gets every thing he wanted, heck in the downfall timeline Ganondorf kills link.
Lttp is also a great game that holds up very well today, I honestly think botw is going to be forgotten as soon as botw 2 comes out in comparison.
@@firenze6478 I've taken a break from it. I both agree and disagree with that idea because there are games that are simply much deeper and more complex in terms of the characters and the world building. I was blown away when I first played it but now there are games that far surpass OoT including games from the same series. Twilight Princess for instance recaptures a number of things OoT did and manages to have a better art style, better music, and a better story. The characterization is much better too. I actually get the sense that Link has personality and character in TP. Breath of the Wilds story certainly isn't amazing though I like the tutorial beginning but its the gameplay and exploration that will make that game endure. There is much more of a sense of adventure and it actually feels like you are exploring a world in that game as opposed to a land in the previous games. If the next game is more story focused then that game might lose some of that freedom to adventure and explore.
The Legend of Zelda timeline is a joke. Nintendo has rarely been good at making good stories and characters - its never been their focus. What makes Lttp and OoT timeless is when fans take those narrative beats and structures and effectively create their own story inside their heads. Final Fantasy IV has a better story than either of them. Also, doing something different or new by itself doesn't make a good story. It has to work with all the other elements.
The 90's and even the first half of the 2000's were without a doubt the Golden Age of gaming. Even though younger generations can still experience many great games from that Era, they will never fully understand how special it truly was to live it in the moment. Somethings shouldn't change.
I consider myself to have had the best of both worlds: the timeless classics from days of yore coupled with modern conveniences. Not only did I not need to pay eighty dollars for "CHRONO TRIGGER" thanks to the Wii Virtual Console, but e-commerce has also enabled me to purchase Japanese import versions of many of these classic games, as well as ones that haven't been released in the West (I'm quite a big fan of import games).
Take a shot every time he says 90's game
I mean, calling it a early-oughts game would be fair, given Dragon Quest VIII was the last proper single-player Dragon Quest in the series before XI, IX and X both being designed with online play in mind.
Have you played Octopath Traveler? You may get a similar feeling!
Nah. Not in my experience
@@disgaealikerasapOG I mean, I prefer Octopath Traveler, and it has a very retro feel.
I also feel in many ways that Mario Odyssey is a 90s game because it brings back that great feeling that only Mario 64 had
I agree though I think it had too many “easy” moons.
Still one of the best games on switch, I liked it far more than botw. Hope Zelda isn’t an open sandbox with no story direction or set puzzles and item unlockables forever...
Firenze 64 breath of the wild was a good game but a bad zelda game the open world was cool and the graphics and music was definitely great the gameplay was fun but the stuff that makes Zelda awesome was missing in this game like the game had boring dungeons and boring boss battles all the dungeons and boss battles were literally the same even the final boss was not that zelda like. Zelda botw 2 better have more dungeons with different looks and styles to it and different bosses. The puzzles were fine. Mario odyssey had some easy parts I will admit but it’s definitely one of my favorite switch games next to smash bros and Luigi mansion 3 which is an amazing game. I also agree with this video dragon quest 11 has a great classic feel to it
The best phrase was "What IS Final Fantasy?"
As someone who grew up on 4, 5, and 6?
7 didn't do it for me, but I totally understand that it's some folks first game.
9 is my favorite, and nobody has made anything that good in the FF series ever again...except for 14.
The problem with Dragon Quest to me always began with Akira Toriyama, as I've never been a fan of his artwork for Dragon Ball.
FFXII is excelent, though
XII > The fanfic that people call FFIX
Meant XIV
I would not say modern games are necessarily worse than retro games, but many force a lot of content as dlc.
God the 90's were great. I remember being so very excited for the future of final fantasy and asked myself what X, XI, XII and so on would look like. Then the Spirits within happened, the merger with Enix and X-2. XIII.
I have wondered if the tools of the last 15 years enabled Square to develop their vision that they all along had from the start. If they had this technology in the 90's, would they have been too unfocused with key components like scenario, storytelling and character development to make something like FFVII. The endless visual possibilities got them sidetracked. Good artists limit themselves and don't use all the colours at once.
I think that's partly the case.
Regardless, with the direction of XIII they began their path to make final fantasy resemble badly written shounen anime with a focus of things looking cool and cute. And thus a new fanbase was born.
Believe it or not, X-2 was originally published in Japan by Square Soft before the merger. It was the last game to be published before the merger took place.
I like X-2 much more than X, actually. X's story is so badly written that it's hilarious, but at least X-2 is self aware and embraces the goofiness. I think FF was on a weird trend for a while. VIII sucked, IX was amazing, X was mediocre, XII was great, XIII sucked, XIII-2 was good, then XV sucked. I definitely think it's a bad sign that the two worst FF games, XIII and XV, are basically back to back mainline entries (since MMOs like XIV usually aren't counted).
Jordan3D X-2 is my guilty pleasure. I like that it’s a bit more lighthearted.
I really recommend you this game. =)
You are 100% correct. I've never played a game since the SNES era that has given me that childhood feel like this game. I've been like a kid going to bed late and waking up early in the morning to play that game on some days. It has been an absolute joy to play.
I was thinking up a list of my all time favorite games a while back and I realized that most of the slots were going to 90's RPG's. And I've been trying to figure out why that is - what exactly was it that made that era so great for RPG's. I do find modern games that I enjoy, but often those are in the same vein and generally not big-budget titles.
There definitely was a certain kind of magic to the great RPG's back then. It wasn't universal - there were plenty of clunkers too - but on the whole it was a great time for those kinds of games. Does nostalgia play a role in my feelings here? Of course. But it's more than that, something that - as you noted - is difficult to put into words.
Charm would be one thing, I suppose. Outside of indie titles, there's not much of that going around these days.
Heart, maybe? Kind of a nebulous term, but it's the best I can come up with.
I don't know.....I'm still trying to come up with a proper explanation, or at least finding a way to properly articulate my feelings on the matter.
As for why we don't get many titles like this anymore, I think that it is at least in part a casualty of gaming becoming more mainstream. The big money is going to go the types of games that will appeal to the masses - namely action-oriented stuff. Nice to know we can still rely on Dragon Quest at least. I hate to admit it, but I still haven't played this one. I've been meaning to, but haven't gotten around to getting it. Watching your video really makes me want to remedy that.
I can see the message that's resonating with me here. Back in the 90's I played FF7, 8 and 9 with pure devotion to the series. When FFX came out, I was thrilled, but something was already... wrong. By the time X-2 was released, I was horrified, and when I finally played Vagrant Story 2... sorry, I meant FFXII, I knew I had to file a divorce with the series. That's NOT the direction the fan base wanted the games to take, period.
I tried then Dragon Quest 8 as a way for me to hold on to those mechanics I was longing for. Cool 3D graphics, old fashioned turn-based combat, etc. I was hooked by its purity. I bought Nintendo DS just for DQIX, and now this glorious 11th chapter fell on my Switch.
The problem is... I just like the art style of old FF entries more than that of DQ. I like the Toriyama look and feel, don't get me wrong (I mean, which male of my generation doesn't?), but 90's FF aesthetics are at the core of my own imagination of "fantasy". But as long as the mechanics don't try to match the originals, the series is dead for me.
Dragon Quest XI S was my favorite JRPG last year and my favorite game of last year. It managed to be what I wanted. But whenever I suggest this game to Final Fantasy fans that crave for that old school feel, they scoff.
Innovations (even when they don't work and care called experimental) are often overrated and praised.
Polish (making working ideas better) is often mocked as stale and unoriginal. To the point that the 3D beat-em-up Dynasty Warriors franchise stopped polishing their most fun bits to innovate on the formula and ruin DW9 after the series' best game DW8 Extreme legends.
John Smith Innovation is fine if it there is a genuine reason to innovate. People think Metal Gear Solid was innovative but it really wasn’t and I would say it was a detriment in gaming. You know what was innovative? Thief: The Dark Project. That game simulated stealth with it’s light and shadow based mechanics and robust sound propagation engine.
I think the problem with Final Fantasy is that they don’t just throw the baby out with the bath water with each new game, they also chuck the tub.
John Syzlack I would say it started with VII, there they brought in dumpster trucks of melodrama and dumb character designs.
John Syzlack oh my personal favorite is V. Always will be. I just think the jump from Nintendo to Sony have them the idea that they can do anything with no limitations, but that has been their downfall.
Prairie Boy Gamer VIIs character designs are amazing
It was my first DQ game. And it was fun, genuinely. And yeah, very fun to see such a classic style of gameplay rendered in high quality 3D graphics. My main problem with the series was always that I've never been a fan of Toriyama's art style, and in playing XI, I also learned that the music is *lousy*.
GOOOOOOOLF STOOOOOORY
I'm so glad to hear even a passing mention! ;u;
Nice! I started playing this game in the exact same time as you and had the same feeling!!! The 90ish groove and casualty
I actually really loved final fantasy 15 because it took a lot of risks, that opening ost just brings back so many feelings
Dusk Debonair agreed
Despite the lack luster battle system I would say the weak story and the attempted open world is what hurt FFXV.
I've never played a Dragon Quest game but I have played Dragon Warrior on the NES from start to finish like 15 times. The music always gets me. The nostalgia is real.
Did I miss it? Did you say what makes the 90s rpgs special?
It's hilarious more people aren't asking this. He literally never explains his assertion.
He did said it's a gut feeling and it can't be put into words, which I agree. But around 6:55 he also kinda explains what is in part a "90s game".
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you for this. Your outlook on final fantasy is perfect and probably why im loving Dragon Quest 11 so much. This has never been voiced better than you have in this video.
I just saw that game on Gamestop for 25 dollars. Perhaps it's my best chance to get into the Dragon Quest series.
27 year old early 2000s kid here, I agree with everything said in the video. Will now check out Dragon Quest 11 because our experiences were pretty much the same when it comes to DQ vs FF.
Dragon quest is miles better than ff
I cried watching this video. Thank you sir!
Please make one for Octopath Traveler too.
Man I still need to finish that.
Xenoblade Chronicles 2 to me is what final fantasy should have been by now
I’d rather it be like xenoblade 1 , the sexy fan service in 2 was very overbearing and constantly shoved in your face stealing any and all seriousness for a stupid pervy joke. Because of so heavily fan serviced they had to make Rex a generic moron like corrin to avoid making him a pervert and making him a perfect Mary Sue, Jin reasoning for destroying all humanity was ridiculous, the dude that killed his girlfriend also wanted that! Malos felt like a middle school bully not final boss ever. I found the combat very repetitive, make orb, break orb , repeat, Rex was so op( without eye of justice zeke is garbage) that every team had to have him, when xenoblade 1 could never use shulk when you didn’t have to and made great teams. The cool Cold War plot between uraya and mor ardain get completely shafted for a far less interesting get to metal tree. All the villains just get killed off instantly with no twists are reason for me to care. The combat was slow and being restricted to three moves per blade with most being rng waifu bait that I couldn’t reassign without a rare item sucked. And blade quests ranged from mediocre/ semi alright to please get this over with.
To be honest it’s not the direction I want the series to go into...
Really great video. I love this channel man. Dragon Quest II (Dragon "Warrior" back then) was my first real "FAVORITE GAME OF ALL-TIME". Now in my mid-to-late 30s coming across a game like DQXI hits a nostalgia nerve like few other games do these days. I'm looking forward to the FF7 Remake for the same reasons.
It took you this long to try DQXI?! Or did you put a ridiculous amount of hours in and finish it just now? :D With all the optional content, I wouldn't be surprised!
im only starting the demo today.. unsure when i tried 2 years ago
I don't know, I haven't stopped playing jrpgs since the 90s and there has been great ones every generation. I guess people skipped the DS, 3DS, PSP or Vita, which had tons of jrpgs collectively, not too mention quite a few gems on PS2, PS3, Wii and XBox 360. Most of them have a 90s feel to them too. There are tons of jrpgs to play outside Final Fantasy.
I blame Final Fantasy's identity crisis on every game X and onward. Ever since, the devs have focused more on making something that feels "next gen" rather than making a good game. XII was the only game that really felt like an interesting new direction for the series with its more expanded action turn based battle system. In fact, Xenoblade Chronicles showed us what FF could have been if it had kept improving the XII design structure. Instead, XIII was a game that tried to be cutting edge, but the developers forgot to actually design the gameplay and story over the gorgeous vistas.
XV probably bears a large degree of the blame, though. It was supposed to be a spinoff, but after years of development, they slapped a "XV" on it to guarantee high sales, even though it felt nothing like an actual FF game. After that, I feel like Square just gave up and said "FF is an action series now". The moment I gave up was when I watched an interview with Kitase himself where when asked if FF would ever have a mainline turn based entry again, he said "No". When the game that popularized turn based RPGs in the west is being remade as an action game, you know the series has lost its way.
I still love games like XIV and Opera Omnia, as well as SE made spiritual successors like the Bravely games and Octopath Traveler, but mainline FF is dead at this point, until the suits at Square Enix suddenly decide that actual RPGs are cool again (which I hope the success of Persona 5, Octopath Traveller, and Dragon Quest XI have shown them). In all honesty, though, I think they'll just keep pumping out action games aimed at the casual western market, since that's where the money is, fans be damned.
“X and onward” X was the last good final fantasy fym?
@@DeezNutzzzzzzzzzzz XII was great, X is super meh. Poorly written story, uninteresting characters, a short and poor excuse of a final dungeon, completely linear, and the sphere grid system is obnoxious to use. Not to mention the horrible minigames you need to beat to max out the ultimate weapons.
I freakin love dq 11
Formula to a good game franchise: if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
Basic
That gets boring though. See Pokémon and Call of Duty
@Woodrow Pride
Doesn't that mean all the more reason for DQ to evolve?
If the next Elder Scrolls comes out 11 years after Skyrim and is still a copy of Skyrim, would that not be dissapointing?
DQ11 is a refined take on 8 (with a little 9 thrown in). Meaning that if you already played 8 on the PS2, you've played most of what 11 has to offer
Paper Mario developers need to hear this.
@@FraserSouris oh you're one of those people who likes to argue in a circle.
@@FraserSouris Not really, because those games don't execute their concepts nearly as well as DQ11 does.
Honestly, I've generally gotten lots of 1990s vibes with many games. Playing Spider-Man 2018 felt like playing Spider-Man 2000 in the days of yore. Jedi: Fallen Order felt a lot like playing a 1990s game with platforming, difficult combat and even weird save points. Squadrons is essentially an X-Wing/ TIE-Fighter Remake, and even games like Immortals: Fenix Rising feels a lot like old Jump n Runs the likes of Banjo Kazooie or Jak & Dexter. So, developers, bring it on, I'm all in on that type of tight and fun game design.
(Also, FF15 with it's modern day like setting and somewhat janky combat system made me feel right at home, since FF8 had those same qualities, even down to the emotional-hero, and it was my first Final Fantasy).
I love this game. A classic jrpg fairy tail , with beautiful visuals, classic score and fun characters. I'm glad it hasn't strayed from its roots. I haven't liked a final fantasy game since 9
XII was great, and XIII-2 was good, but other than that, yeah...
Very concise video, two ad spots, nearly a minute in length for a 10 minute video for you to essentially say it's a 90s game and it reminds you of your childhood.