Spray Jones ... you and your whole crew would be more than welcome in the USA 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸. Your info that you share is well received here in the USA ... keep up the good work!!!!! 👍👍👍
Love you videos, just finished the spray foam in my new build in Arkansas. Nobody wanted to spray the roof deck but your videos convinced me it was the right choice, so I did it. i was able to keep 4000sq ft at 75 degrees with a 8000 watt portable Air conditioner while it was over 90 outside. Can't wait to get it finished. Great information, and would love to see you move to the US.
I am a spray foam contractor in Northern NY. I have installing for almost 20 years, to my knowledge I have no issues with "roof rot" . I have had more issues with the people that want the roof vented and sprayed. If some one has installed foam baffles we will not spray against them, the heat distorts them and it i very difficult to install the proper thickness. In addition to that the bay that they are in is not fully vented anyway. When given the opportunity we spray approximately 2" closed cell foam and then 8" of open cell over that. This works every time we do it. That assembly is quiet, covers all truss plates etc. In our area the code is R38 if the insulation is over the top plate and the codes office is pretty strict on that, that being said the assembly is far beyond any fibrous material. Great video, we both have know the answers to this for a long time but now there is data to back it up.
I'm in Minnesota and have a 1924 house with a flat roof over some living space including a 40 square foot bathroom. The previous owner put in a drop ceiling to install a bathroom fan vented out the side of the house. The only problem is that area gets way too cold in the winter and cold air pours in. It feels like the cold air is even coming in from other areas beside the poorly installed bathroom fan vent in this drop ceiling space. A contractor told me he could use closed-cell spray foam in the drop ceiling attic after I demo it. My concern is once it's sealed and I install sheet rock that moisture will accumulate over time due to people bathing or forgetting to turn on the bathroom fan when showering.
I listened to the WHOLE thing! We purchased an Italianate Victorian (c. 1859-70) in Michigan and have been at a standstill in installing the new roof we desperately need because we can’t solve insulation+ventilation. Our roof has multiple hipped-sections all terminating into two different flat roofs at the top. One flat is atop a shorter two-story addition that runs the width of the home’s back. We have a walk-up attic and have installed a split HVAC system. The attic system services the second floor. The few available insulation/ventilation options we are considering are: 1. Covering the attic floor with loose insulation and installing soffit or fascia vents with turbines on the flat. (Not great for the furnace itself, nor access to it through a pile of cellulose.) 2. Under-deck closed cell foam insulation w soffit/fascia vents and a continuous in-line vent under the shingles a few courses below the flat. (Still limited in the amount of exhaust we can get with many joists terminating into one another below the flat, plus the baffling may limit the amount of insulation we can spray in the joist cavities. 3. A cold roof, insulating the underside of the decking and building a second deck over the original w 2x4s laid as vertical channels between the two layers, ventilating the roof above the old deck, covered by a taller, ventilated drip edge. It sounds like it’s going to be significantly more expensive, plus I’m not entirely sure how the exhaust at the top is protected from water intrusion. I had already read the Building Science article you referenced and have talked to a couple of roofers about it, but both said a non-ventilated roof would void my shingle warranty. I’m almost at the point of not caring about the warranty. I was already pretty convinced of the benefits and efficacy of a non-ventilated assembly, and your video just makes me more certain. I really wish building codes would catch up fast so I don’t feel like I’m stuck with a Sophie’s choice! 😢
No matter how authoritative it is, you will NOT get it past the plan checker. At the very least, you will need the chief engineer and even then s/he will want some **code** citation.
As I have said for years, I have learned so much about spray foam from you, I am in your debt. I loved the rant. So many videos are trying to use the scare tactic for not using spray foam like it’s the foams fault. Well if it is, then I can blame this keyboard for misspelling of words. Keep up the good work and don’t let them silence you. Yes, get over here to the states please. Grace and Peace Slick
Good video. My custom home has 5/8" plywood deck over mono-slope trusses, Prosoco joint and seam filler and Cat 5, 2 inches polyisocyanurate board, and a peel and stick ice and water shield on top. Used 3M flashing tape on all the edges. The roof is waterproof. Rain screen 1x4 pressure treated on top. Four inch structural screws hold on rain screen. Screw heads sealed. Stranding seam metal roof to be installed later.
A little late for this vid. Spray Jones, you are the only expert in this field that I have found that has recognized the fact that spray foam insulation installed at the roof deck that is providing vapor and air control should negate, or at least mitigate, the air leakage associated with recessed lighting in cathedral ceilings. Thank you for mentioning this. Enjoy your vids.
The word of the day is “PERMABLILITY”. The question of the day using the word of the day: The PERMABLILITY rating when the vapor diffusion layer on the underside of the wood roof deck has the minimal amount of medium density spray foam will it be less than or greater than the given constant? Hint: Mike has given the constant in other videos and indirectly in this video. Thank you Mike for another excellent video!
Yoooo man ..... thanks again for these vids ... hope the sun is shining on all you love and your family and thanks soo much for these incredible informative vids on your channel
I am tearing into open cell 48 years old. My dads company did it originally...turned to powder. It failed completely. I remember the test samples being cut and weighed before spraying. This was our family home.
Interesting since Icynene was only marketing open cell foam in 1988. The birth of open cell market took place in early 1990s..starting in Canada. So what product do you have? UFFI?
@@SprayJones I think I can upload a picture I took a couple days ago. It is impossible to breath when you disturb it. The company was called B & H insulation in indianapolis indiana and the house is 48 years old. I will try to upload. You can right click my name then see it if my upload works. Have never done before.
@@SprayJones Okay I attempted to upload a video of a picture because I could not upload a pic. I am not having any luck. I tried to make it my Face pic but it was too big.
Wonderful information and I can't believe this isn't the standard by now, it's 2023.... All construction and renovations should be spray foamed, sealed 100%, and venting controlled by HRV/ERV systems as part of the HVAC... There is no reason an attic should be hitting 140 degrees on a summer day above 3' of fiberglass.
I'm hopefully less than 5 years out from moving and building some of my dream projects. If you do decide to go USA I hope you wind up working in the PA/VA/WV/TN area.
Thanks so much for this. Would like to know where I can download a pdf of the report? My home in North Carolina has flat (canted 1/8”/ft) roof on addition, framed with double 2x10 SPF, and 3/4” BC plywood covered with adhered PVC membrane deck covering (0.060”) welded seams and edges. Need a competent spray foam installer who understands air sealing. Appreciate how much work you are putting into all these videos! Great service to humanity! Cheers
As an inhabitant of climate zone 2, many of the considerations for Alberta are neither necessary nor cost effective for me. Your analyses and insights are excellent; I just wish there was someone like you working and making videos in the southern USA!
As another resident of the southern US, I can say you have totally missed the point. It is not about the climate zone ( I am 3A) it is about the use of spray foam in unvented attics. The principals and science is what matters across all climates.
I got answers to a few of my questions. Does the ceiling need to be insulated if the roof is? Is adhesive rubberized sheeting better than tar paper for metal roofing? Do the roof rafters have to fully enclosed? And something I never considered. Ash and embers being sucked into roof venting and causing fire damage. An idea that has made me reconsider vented roofing as less attractive.
Great to know. I'm building wood geodesic dome home. It's a 50 ft. and a 20 ft. dome that are connected with a wide but very short hallway. It's a 3 1/2 story home that is about 5,500 sq. ft. I put 3/4 plywood on the exterior and then stuck on Ice and Water Shield. Then I used an architectural shingle. I'm considering using spray foam but I've been given quoits of $150,000. I think I'm going to install Rock Wool insulation and do all the labor myself.
@@SprayJones You really can't vent a geodesic dome home unless you build a double shelled dome. I'm not going to vent it but will get the same effect I think with a fresh air intake connected to an HVAC system or something like that. I'm still trying to figure that stuff out as I've never installed any of it before. It will be a no vent roof just like some of your videos that don't have vents in them. I'll have to bring in fresh air on one side of the house and let some go on the other I guess. I'll probably also have to install a dehumidifier since I live just south of Victoria, Canada in the USA.
@@robertlaird6746 , you're not getting the full picture. Without venting the roof space, moisture will certainly condense on the cold (cooler) sheathing, even in Victoria. In days to months, moisture will begin rotting the sheathing, and as @SprayJones mentions...your repair costs will be astronomical.
@@rickhuitema1623 I guess I'm not getting the full picture and will have to give the video another listen to. I do have two openings high up where I can open a man door and walk out on two separate small decks which is pretty cool. That right there makes the home vented. It's a custom and unique home and that's what's making it hard to fully understand.
Interesting on the video suppression. I was thinking you stopped putting out vids and came across this one. I would love to have you move to West Virginia as I need your expertise!
What's the best way forward to hit code-required R-values after a few inches of foam? Sure, 4" of 2lb foam is sufficient to both air seal and provide the necessary insulation to prevent conditioned air from hitting a sufficiently cold condensing surface (both inside the wall cavity on the insulation, or on the underside of the roof deck/wall sheathing) but the wrote value of ~R28 from 4" of foam is usually not enough to satisfy code that calls for 40+ in residential roof assemblies in northern climates. Going to necessary depth of spray foam on a roof assembly to hit that R-value is expensive and time consuming due to the lifts required. Thoughts on the use of 'intelligent' vapor barrier (eg, Siga Majrex) as part of a flash-and-batt or flash-and-pack implementation? Better to go with exterior rooftop insulation like the diagrams in this paper? Another consideration -- how does this work along side bonded insulated sheathing like Zip-R? I know that thermally breaking the framing members from the sheathing can go a long way, even just and R3 or R5, but interested in your thoughts.
Awesome video. Funny, what you mention about slab on grade building is exactly what I am doing. All my mechanicals will be in the conditioned attic, and it makes it so much easier to do everything else like lights ect, no stupid poly in the way doing a crappy job. I mentioned this in other videos, but you are the whole reason I am doing my new forever home in this style. Everyone I tell about my conditioned attic looks at me like I am from space... But I know it will be worth it. Edit: you mention caulking seams on the face, but I wonder, what about the sides where the foam doesn't fill the entire cavity? My walls are 2x8s, some sistered like 7x. I am going to caulk off of the seams, but I wonder about the sides... The few inches of the boards that are exposed in the cavity on top and bottom. Won't the air make it through around there? I am talking about where the vertical studs meet the top and bottom plates, not on the face, but down the sides up to where the spray foam thickness ends..?
It could, albeit that is a smaller area, it is also why we spray side to side and have so much more overspray inside the cavity. That acts as a skim coat for the wood. At some point you do have to stop and evaluate time to install vs risk of it not being done.
@@SprayJones thanks for the reply. I will be doing the caulking myself as I am the onwer/builder of this place, so I might as well caulk a few inches in on top and bottom as I am doing the faces. I know you use spray caulking, and I wish I had that done as well but it's not really an option, so with that said, what product would you recommend for tube stuff? I watch done video by Matt Risinger where DAP Dynaflex 230 was recommended for general caulking, would that do or do you recommend a better product (that's not spray based)
Beautiful video! Exactly the info we need as homeowners. What kind of additives can be used with closed cell to give a better fire rating? I’ve seen a video with Matt risinger using an additive, but unsure if we can get it up here in Canada.
Canada you cannot. We have excellent products already. CAN ULC S102 corner wall test for fire is the most strict there is and SPF passes. If your project is burning your SPF is the least of your problems. Go watch us burn the SPF in the health and safety playlist.
Good evening sir. I’ve looked at a lot of roofs in North Texas and been on hundreds of roof claims with insurance companies. Spray foam appears to create excessive heat damage to asphalt shingles. So my question is … what is your take on spring insulation directly to the backside of the deck without any ventilation or separation to create ventilation so that the heat spray foam insulation is keeping out of the attic doesn’t transfer back through the shingles?
great video just subscribed even though i have watched your vids before. i like watching canadian builders vids and shows because i do not trust american government and builders because they look out more for the building industries than they do for the american owners. i am 62 and grew up around the construction industries but the last house i built was in my thirties and it was my own. since that time i have seen the standards that the government and builders use just go to crap it is all about the money they can make and not about good quality homes that the owner can afford. i am going to be building me a small house this coming year and have been watching alot of vids on new construction ways of doing things and since i live in michigan ( pellston mi icebox of the nation for 60 years ) where we can get just as cold. insulation is a big deal to me and how it should be done right. matt resinger is one of the few i trust to watch to do things right also!
Hi Spray Jones. Need some help with a new roof. EDPM glued to Plywood and then attached to wood web trusses. I want to spray foam to under side in the warm area to the bottom of the plywood sheeting. What pitfalls with this? Will this rot the plywood? I plan to have the spray to wrap the top cord of the truss. Thanks for any insight or if you can direct me to a previous discussion or tech info. I am located in Alaska just south of Anchorage.
I just saw this now... sorry for late reply. You need to discuss with a building design firm locally in your area. There are some areas of concern when using a bonded membrane to the exterior and then foam internally air tight.
Great info thanks. Just bidding a low slope non vented roof. Next question is about ice dams. In conventional sloped roofs I’ve used closed cell spf over card board baffles with soffit and ridge vents to maintain ventilation, mainly to keep some method open to dry the underside of the roof deck and keep shingles cooler, but also to help prevent ice dams. Is that valid?
Go watch the 4 part series on non-vented roof. Also watch the shingle life and SPF video too. There is a playlist for vaulted ceilings you will find it in.
Do you have high snow load? Also see this regarding causes of ice dams from the other side (snow warming the roof deck): ua-cam.com/video/Ld8pzIu45F8/v-deo.html
Mike, thanks for the great content. Question, I'm working on building a new house soon. I'm in NC...I'm thinking 4" CC under the roof...so an encapsulated attic. I'm also planning the entire house will be Huber Zip System and fully taped. For exterior walls, I'm thinking 2x4 with Zip and then 2" of Exterior Polyiso and Rockwool on the interior. I'm leaning this way, as the exterior poly will help with the thermal bridging of the studs, the Zip will handle the moisture/air sealing and this will be less costly than doing say 2" of CC plus 2" of poly on the exterior. Thoughts?
I 100% believe it closed cell SPF. You have to make sure the Zip is perfect on the outside for handling water otherwise it will fail. You will have screws or nails going through the rigid so those are all points of potential failure. The rigid must be tight to the substrate and perfectly sealed for water to the outside, otherwise it will get water behind and fail. What is wrong with insulated zip wall and 2" of SPF? What costs will you incur if the outside system fails? X60 factor of increase.
@@SprayJones I know, you have me rethinking this. Our current house has 2.5" closed cell in the walls, and 3.5" in the roof and is like a Yeti cooler. If we did Zip R for thermal bridging and say 2.0" walls, maybe 3.5-4.0'" in the roof...for Zip R do we need 1" or 2". Thanks for your thoughts. I love your channel. Most builders I talk with think I am crazy about Spray Foam and then tell me all the bad things about it.
@@Eric-xp1kl I would do 2" walls with Zip R6 on the outside and 3-4" in the roof. Starting in 2024 I am thinking of starting "off the record reviews" where I review and discuss your building plans and it is done for free will offering because it is just two guys talking. Maybe you would like that. I have done 2 already...
My builder uses open cell in the roof in South Florida. What’s your opinion on that, because I still have time to address it. Home almost complete, Spray would be next month.
So no issues in an attached garage leaving the rafters open, spraying the underside of the roof sheathing and closing off and spraying over the roof vents, removing the baffles and closing in the entire thing? Have a metal roof and live in Calgary. Watched the video which makes me feel better and contractor says good to go but I have no experience with spray foam and I’m still concerned about moisture in there or heating the roof too much.
I have 2 attics, they are not connected in my house in Utah, cold winters. I am thinking of putting foam in the attic that doesn’t have the air conditioning unit in it, just ducts. The company wants to cover all my vents, even the ridge vents. How would moisture escape? Should I not allow the ridge vents to be covered?
We are about to build a Barndominium. It will be spray foamed and it will have a standing seam metal roof. Do you recommend putting sheathing underneath the metal roof and then spraying closed cell foam directly to the sheathing?
In general you have been recommending closed cell foam, the spray folks in Florida have been recommending open instead … as it would not hold water, and because it’s breathable not cause condensation. What is a good product for Florida ?
Florida and Texas seem to have a lot of misinformation (from spray foam installers and builders) about open cell vs closed cell. For some reason, they seem to think closed cell will cause condensation, mold, and rot in the humid south because the lack of vapor permeability but all the research I see from folks like spray jones and Joe lstiburek say the opposite. If done correctly and with the right wall/roof assembly I seem to agree closed cell is superior or the better choice if it’s in your budget.
Let's say I'm putting 4inches on a non vented roof the inspector won't pass the house till I spray 4in around the whole face and side of the tip cord? Is he true or wrong
Wrong. on 2" x 6" top cord we don't with 4" we don't spray 4" all around the wood. Nor do you in a wall assembly the physics are the same. You need details drawn for where and how much.
I'd love to pick your brain about VENTED attic/roof insulation. I'm having my flat roof in Montreal done this year and there's zero, zero insulation nor vapour barrier (1940s house) and I'm having a hell of a time figuring out what I can do to bring it up to spec while they're up there. Local contractors are not much help, they just keep sending me quotes with no insulation included despite my asking.
So can someone please tell me if this is right. I live in Alabama. Hot and humid climate. Zone 2 to 3. So it’s best to use closed cell foam for walls and roof. Just make sure the walls and roof and watertight. Is that basically what it comes down to? Thank you for any responses . And if someone could show me the perfect wall or roof for my climate. Thanks
I’m building a barndo and the builder isn’t venting the attic to my knowledge. With an attic that is not vented, does that mean I have to close cell foam it?
You must (in another video) discuss thermal bridging. You showed some shots of a roof truss system with spray foam between the wood and a few with the entire stud encapsulated. You did briefly mention rigid on the roof combined with spf. You mentioned caulking double studs to prevent air leakage, but didn’t mention thermal bridging. You agreed with need for adequate HVAC systems to control the interior humidity? But that is a big deal. I did watch a Matt Risinger video where he discussed, with a building science engineer, that laying an ice and water over the entire roof IS NOT a good idea because it traps the water.
This subject is so difficult to talk with building inspectors, some will not except anything other than having a 2" space between the plywood and foam.
Letting things dry both ways, besides a foundation is typically the best case scenario. The dense pack fiberglass is a no Brainer, a more cost effective, higher r-value, longer lasting inert install. Spray foam is great as a tool but I'd rather hot box a roof with glass than foam, unless it was a combo install. I'm never worried about moisture problems in New england in a closed cavity cieling with dense pack glass. I usually deliver higher to much higher r values than foam at a much lower price.
Get out of Canada now! BUT do your research and don’t move to a “mini Canada” state in the US. Caution, there are several that are on the edge right now while still being considered conservative states. Someone with your skill set, work ethic and knowledge will do VERY well in the US! Show up, do quality work and charge a fair but adequate rate and you’re golden. Reliable contractors are getting harder to find every day! Good luck. Trudy sucks.. (I live 10 miles from the border) on the U.S. side. 👍🏻
Spray Jones ... you and your whole crew would be more than welcome in the USA 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸. Your info that you share is well received here in the USA ... keep up the good work!!!!! 👍👍👍
Thanks
Come to Orlando!
Mike these videos are the best. Last week your videos assisted me with a customer and a building inspector-so THANK YOU!
Just had 2” of poly iso board installed with my new metal roof…. Night and day difference! Nice to see the data that validates this approach.
Love you videos, just finished the spray foam in my new build in Arkansas. Nobody wanted to spray the roof deck but your videos convinced me it was the right choice, so I did it. i was able to keep 4000sq ft at 75 degrees with a 8000 watt portable Air conditioner while it was over 90 outside. Can't wait to get it finished. Great information, and would love to see you move to the US.
That is awesome!
I am a spray foam contractor in Northern NY. I have installing for almost 20 years, to my knowledge I have no issues with "roof rot" . I have had more issues with the people that want the roof vented and sprayed. If some one has installed foam baffles we will not spray against them, the heat distorts them and it i very difficult to install the proper thickness. In addition to that the bay that they are in is not fully vented anyway. When given the opportunity we spray approximately 2" closed cell foam and then 8" of open cell over that. This works every time we do it. That assembly is quiet, covers all truss plates etc. In our area the code is R38 if the insulation is over the top plate and the codes office is pretty strict on that, that being said the assembly is far beyond any fibrous material. Great video, we both have know the answers to this for a long time but now there is data to back it up.
Good report. Thanks for watching and sharing.
I'm in Minnesota and have a 1924 house with a flat roof over some living space including a 40 square foot bathroom. The previous owner put in a drop ceiling to install a bathroom fan vented out the side of the house. The only problem is that area gets way too cold in the winter and cold air pours in. It feels like the cold air is even coming in from other areas beside the poorly installed bathroom fan vent in this drop ceiling space. A contractor told me he could use closed-cell spray foam in the drop ceiling attic after I demo it. My concern is once it's sealed and I install sheet rock that moisture will accumulate over time due to people bathing or forgetting to turn on the bathroom fan when showering.
I listened to the WHOLE thing! We purchased an Italianate Victorian (c. 1859-70) in Michigan and have been at a standstill in installing the new roof we desperately need because we can’t solve insulation+ventilation. Our roof has multiple hipped-sections all terminating into two different flat roofs at the top. One flat is atop a shorter two-story addition that runs the width of the home’s back.
We have a walk-up attic and have installed a split HVAC system. The attic system services the second floor.
The few available insulation/ventilation options we are considering are:
1. Covering the attic floor with loose insulation and installing soffit or fascia vents with turbines on the flat. (Not great for the furnace itself, nor access to it through a pile of cellulose.)
2. Under-deck closed cell foam insulation w soffit/fascia vents and a continuous in-line vent under the shingles a few courses below the flat. (Still limited in the amount of exhaust we can get with many joists terminating into one another below the flat, plus the baffling may limit the amount of insulation we can spray in the joist cavities.
3. A cold roof, insulating the underside of the decking and building a second deck over the original w 2x4s laid as vertical channels between the two layers, ventilating the roof above the old deck, covered by a taller, ventilated drip edge. It sounds like it’s going to be significantly more expensive, plus I’m not entirely sure how the exhaust at the top is protected from water intrusion.
I had already read the Building Science article you referenced and have talked to a couple of roofers about it, but both said a non-ventilated roof would void my shingle warranty.
I’m almost at the point of not caring about the warranty. I was already pretty convinced of the benefits and efficacy of a non-ventilated assembly, and your video just makes me more certain. I really wish building codes would catch up fast so I don’t feel like I’m stuck with a Sophie’s choice! 😢
This is the kinda info that's really hard to get an answer on. Great job digging through the report and delivering the message!
Glad it was helpful!
No matter how authoritative it is, you will NOT get it past the plan checker. At the very least, you will need the chief engineer and even then s/he will want some **code** citation.
I watch all your videos, but this one just showed up on my feed...13 days later. Love your passion for the industry!
Censorship...
As I have said for years, I have learned so much about spray foam from you, I am in your debt.
I loved the rant.
So many videos are trying to use the scare tactic for not using spray foam like it’s the foams fault. Well if it is, then I can blame this keyboard for misspelling of words.
Keep up the good work and don’t let them silence you.
Yes, get over here to the states please.
Grace and Peace
Slick
Thanks for watching.
Texas here, I receive you loud and clear. Great Show.
Thanks for listening
Good video. My custom home has 5/8" plywood deck over mono-slope trusses, Prosoco joint and seam filler and Cat 5, 2 inches polyisocyanurate board, and a peel and stick ice and water shield on top. Used 3M flashing tape on all the edges. The roof is waterproof. Rain screen 1x4 pressure treated on top. Four inch structural screws hold on rain screen. Screw heads sealed. Stranding seam metal roof to be installed later.
A little late for this vid. Spray Jones, you are the only expert in this field that I have found that has recognized the fact that spray foam insulation installed at the roof deck that is providing vapor and air control should negate, or at least mitigate, the air leakage associated with recessed lighting in cathedral ceilings. Thank you for mentioning this. Enjoy your vids.
I am always looking at comments coming in. Thanks for watching.
The word of the day is “PERMABLILITY”. The question of the day using the word of the day: The PERMABLILITY rating when the vapor diffusion layer on the underside of the wood roof deck has the minimal amount of medium density spray foam will it be less than or greater than the given constant?
Hint: Mike has given the constant in other videos and indirectly in this video.
Thank you Mike for another excellent video!
Excellent Reference, Details and Facts ! Thank you
Yoooo man ..... thanks again for these vids ... hope the sun is shining on all you love and your family and thanks soo much for these incredible informative vids on your channel
Much appreciated
Great video- as an owner/operator this stuff is gold!
Glad you enjoyed it!
I am tearing into open cell 48 years old. My dads company did it originally...turned to powder. It failed completely. I remember the test samples being cut and weighed before spraying. This was our family home.
Interesting since Icynene was only marketing open cell foam in 1988. The birth of open cell market took place in early 1990s..starting in Canada.
So what product do you have? UFFI?
@@SprayJones I think I can upload a picture I took a couple days ago. It is impossible to breath when you disturb it. The company was called B & H insulation in indianapolis indiana and the house is 48 years old. I will try to upload. You can right click my name then see it if my upload works. Have never done before.
@@SprayJones Okay I attempted to upload a video of a picture because I could not upload a pic. I am not having any luck. I tried to make it my Face pic but it was too big.
Wonderful information and I can't believe this isn't the standard by now, it's 2023....
All construction and renovations should be spray foamed, sealed 100%, and venting controlled by HRV/ERV systems as part of the HVAC... There is no reason an attic should be hitting 140 degrees on a summer day above 3' of fiberglass.
Agreed.
I'm hopefully less than 5 years out from moving and building some of my dream projects. If you do decide to go USA I hope you wind up working in the PA/VA/WV/TN area.
Canadian from Ontario here. Already made the move bro! Make the move already, what are you waiting for 😂. Need help with my new home in Houston, TX.
Thanks so much for this.
Would like to know where I can download a pdf of the report?
My home in North Carolina has flat (canted 1/8”/ft) roof on addition, framed with double 2x10 SPF, and 3/4” BC plywood covered with adhered PVC membrane deck covering (0.060”) welded seams and edges.
Need a competent spray foam installer who understands air sealing.
Appreciate how much work you are putting into all these videos!
Great service to humanity!
Cheers
This is a “walkable roof”, with sealed structural design, and the PVC has some texture and decorative pattern. It’s a great roof!
As an inhabitant of climate zone 2, many of the considerations for Alberta are neither necessary nor cost effective for me. Your analyses and insights are excellent; I just wish there was someone like you working and making videos in the southern USA!
As another resident of the southern US, I can say you have totally missed the point. It is not about the climate zone ( I am 3A) it is about the use of spray foam in unvented attics. The principals and science is what matters across all climates.
I got answers to a few of my questions.
Does the ceiling need to be insulated if the roof is?
Is adhesive rubberized sheeting better than tar paper for metal roofing?
Do the roof rafters have to fully enclosed?
And something I never considered. Ash and embers being sucked into roof venting and causing fire damage. An idea that has made me reconsider vented roofing as less attractive.
Watch the 4 part series on roofs. Many questions answered there.
Great to know. I'm building wood geodesic dome home. It's a 50 ft. and a 20 ft. dome that are connected with a wide but very short hallway. It's a 3 1/2 story home that is about 5,500 sq. ft. I put 3/4 plywood on the exterior and then stuck on Ice and Water Shield. Then I used an architectural shingle. I'm considering using spray foam but I've been given quoits of $150,000. I think I'm going to install Rock Wool insulation and do all the labor myself.
How are going to vent that? Doing it wrong will multiple the repair costs to your quote by a factor of X5
@@SprayJones You really can't vent a geodesic dome home unless you build a double shelled dome. I'm not going to vent it but will get the same effect I think with a fresh air intake connected to an HVAC system or something like that. I'm still trying to figure that stuff out as I've never installed any of it before. It will be a no vent roof just like some of your videos that don't have vents in them. I'll have to bring in fresh air on one side of the house and let some go on the other I guess. I'll probably also have to install a dehumidifier since I live just south of Victoria, Canada in the USA.
@@robertlaird6746 , you're not getting the full picture. Without venting the roof space, moisture will certainly condense on the cold (cooler) sheathing, even in Victoria. In days to months, moisture will begin rotting the sheathing, and as @SprayJones mentions...your repair costs will be astronomical.
@@rickhuitema1623 I guess I'm not getting the full picture and will have to give the video another listen to. I do have two openings high up where I can open a man door and walk out on two separate small decks which is pretty cool. That right there makes the home vented. It's a custom and unique home and that's what's making it hard to fully understand.
Interesting on the video suppression. I was thinking you stopped putting out vids and came across this one. I would love to have you move to West Virginia as I need your expertise!
Yes bill C 11 is terrible and affecting many UA-camrs.
What's the best way forward to hit code-required R-values after a few inches of foam? Sure, 4" of 2lb foam is sufficient to both air seal and provide the necessary insulation to prevent conditioned air from hitting a sufficiently cold condensing surface (both inside the wall cavity on the insulation, or on the underside of the roof deck/wall sheathing) but the wrote value of ~R28 from 4" of foam is usually not enough to satisfy code that calls for 40+ in residential roof assemblies in northern climates. Going to necessary depth of spray foam on a roof assembly to hit that R-value is expensive and time consuming due to the lifts required. Thoughts on the use of 'intelligent' vapor barrier (eg, Siga Majrex) as part of a flash-and-batt or flash-and-pack implementation? Better to go with exterior rooftop insulation like the diagrams in this paper?
Another consideration -- how does this work along side bonded insulated sheathing like Zip-R? I know that thermally breaking the framing members from the sheathing can go a long way, even just and R3 or R5, but interested in your thoughts.
Awesome video. Funny, what you mention about slab on grade building is exactly what I am doing. All my mechanicals will be in the conditioned attic, and it makes it so much easier to do everything else like lights ect, no stupid poly in the way doing a crappy job. I mentioned this in other videos, but you are the whole reason I am doing my new forever home in this style. Everyone I tell about my conditioned attic looks at me like I am from space... But I know it will be worth it.
Edit: you mention caulking seams on the face, but I wonder, what about the sides where the foam doesn't fill the entire cavity? My walls are 2x8s, some sistered like 7x. I am going to caulk off of the seams, but I wonder about the sides... The few inches of the boards that are exposed in the cavity on top and bottom. Won't the air make it through around there? I am talking about where the vertical studs meet the top and bottom plates, not on the face, but down the sides up to where the spray foam thickness ends..?
It could, albeit that is a smaller area, it is also why we spray side to side and have so much more overspray inside the cavity. That acts as a skim coat for the wood.
At some point you do have to stop and evaluate time to install vs risk of it not being done.
@@SprayJones thanks for the reply. I will be doing the caulking myself as I am the onwer/builder of this place, so I might as well caulk a few inches in on top and bottom as I am doing the faces. I know you use spray caulking, and I wish I had that done as well but it's not really an option, so with that said, what product would you recommend for tube stuff? I watch done video by Matt Risinger where DAP Dynaflex 230 was recommended for general caulking, would that do or do you recommend a better product (that's not spray based)
You would make bank in USA with your knowledge.
Beautiful video! Exactly the info we need as homeowners.
What kind of additives can be used with closed cell to give a better fire rating? I’ve seen a video with Matt risinger using an additive, but unsure if we can get it up here in Canada.
Canada you cannot. We have excellent products already. CAN ULC S102 corner wall test for fire is the most strict there is and SPF passes.
If your project is burning your SPF is the least of your problems.
Go watch us burn the SPF in the health and safety playlist.
Good evening sir. I’ve looked at a lot of roofs in North Texas and been on hundreds of roof claims with insurance companies.
Spray foam appears to create excessive heat damage to asphalt shingles.
So my question is … what is your take on spring insulation directly to the backside of the deck without any ventilation or separation to create ventilation so that the heat spray foam insulation is keeping out of the attic doesn’t transfer back through the shingles?
Watch the shingle life video we have.
We need you here !
Yes ! Move to Texas and service the whole state. We need EVERY home/attic spray foamed here since builders put HVAC in the 140° attic
great video just subscribed even though i have watched your vids before. i like watching canadian builders vids and shows because i do not trust american government and builders because they look out more for the building industries than they do for the american owners. i am 62 and grew up around the construction industries but the last house i built was in my thirties and it was my own. since that time i have seen the standards that the government and builders use just go to crap it is all about the money they can make and not about good quality homes that the owner can afford. i am going to be building me a small house this coming year and have been watching alot of vids on new construction ways of doing things and since i live in michigan ( pellston mi icebox of the nation for 60 years ) where we can get just as cold. insulation is a big deal to me and how it should be done right. matt resinger is one of the few i trust to watch to do things right also!
Thanks for watching and following along.
Hi Spray Jones. Need some help with a new roof. EDPM glued to Plywood and then attached to wood web trusses. I want to spray foam to under side in the warm area to the bottom of the plywood sheeting. What pitfalls with this? Will this rot the plywood? I plan to have the spray to wrap the top cord of the truss. Thanks for any insight or if you can direct me to a previous discussion or tech info. I am located in Alaska just south of Anchorage.
I just saw this now... sorry for late reply. You need to discuss with a building design firm locally in your area. There are some areas of concern when using a bonded membrane to the exterior and then foam internally air tight.
Where is the link to obtain a copy of this article? Please post a copy somewhere. Thanks
Followed you for years, did a major reno with the product over ten years ago, very impressed. Were can I get a copy of the report ?
Go on my website and fill in the contact us. I will email you a copy.
Great info thanks. Just bidding a low slope non vented roof. Next question is about ice dams. In conventional sloped roofs I’ve used closed cell spf over card board baffles with soffit and ridge vents to maintain ventilation, mainly to keep some method open to dry the underside of the roof deck and keep shingles cooler, but also to help prevent ice dams. Is that valid?
Go watch the 4 part series on non-vented roof. Also watch the shingle life and SPF video too. There is a playlist for vaulted ceilings you will find it in.
Do you have high snow load? Also see this regarding causes of ice dams from the other side (snow warming the roof deck): ua-cam.com/video/Ld8pzIu45F8/v-deo.html
Mike, thanks for the great content. Question, I'm working on building a new house soon. I'm in NC...I'm thinking 4" CC under the roof...so an encapsulated attic. I'm also planning the entire house will be Huber Zip System and fully taped. For exterior walls, I'm thinking 2x4 with Zip and then 2" of Exterior Polyiso and Rockwool on the interior. I'm leaning this way, as the exterior poly will help with the thermal bridging of the studs, the Zip will handle the moisture/air sealing and this will be less costly than doing say 2" of CC plus 2" of poly on the exterior. Thoughts?
I 100% believe it closed cell SPF.
You have to make sure the Zip is perfect on the outside for handling water otherwise it will fail. You will have screws or nails going through the rigid so those are all points of potential failure. The rigid must be tight to the substrate and perfectly sealed for water to the outside, otherwise it will get water behind and fail.
What is wrong with insulated zip wall and 2" of SPF?
What costs will you incur if the outside system fails? X60 factor of increase.
@@SprayJones I know, you have me rethinking this. Our current house has 2.5" closed cell in the walls, and 3.5" in the roof and is like a Yeti cooler. If we did Zip R for thermal bridging and say 2.0" walls, maybe 3.5-4.0'" in the roof...for Zip R do we need 1" or 2". Thanks for your thoughts. I love your channel. Most builders I talk with think I am crazy about Spray Foam and then tell me all the bad things about it.
@@Eric-xp1kl I would do 2" walls with Zip R6 on the outside and 3-4" in the roof.
Starting in 2024 I am thinking of starting "off the record reviews" where I review and discuss your building plans and it is done for free will offering because it is just two guys talking. Maybe you would like that. I have done 2 already...
@@SprayJones Yes, that sounds interesting.
What will SPF do to help fix an outside failed zip wall? It will trap moisture.
Is it the same for pole barns - metal roofs and walls??
Appreciate all you do!!
Yes
Mike, if you move down here, bring your field crews with you. Please.
Thanks
Great video as all of yours. I tried to go online to RDH to download the report but could not find it. Is there a link to it?
Go to my web site and send in a contact us. I will email you a copy.
My builder uses open cell in the roof in South Florida. What’s your opinion on that, because I still have time to address it. Home almost complete, Spray would be next month.
Go with what he will put his name and insurance to.
So no issues in an attached garage leaving the rafters open, spraying the underside of the roof sheathing and closing off and spraying over the roof vents, removing the baffles and closing in the entire thing? Have a metal roof and live in Calgary. Watched the video which makes me feel better and contractor says good to go but I have no experience with spray foam and I’m still concerned about moisture in there or heating the roof too much.
Watch 4 part series on non-vented roofs. By the end you will educate others.
I have 2 attics, they are not connected in my house in Utah, cold winters. I am thinking of putting foam in the attic that doesn’t have the air conditioning unit in it, just ducts. The company wants to cover all my vents, even the ridge vents. How would moisture escape? Should I not allow the ridge vents to be covered?
Unless you create no way of having condensation in the attic, vents will be needed to provide some sort of moisture escape.
We are about to build a Barndominium. It will be spray foamed and it will have a standing seam metal roof. Do you recommend putting sheathing underneath the metal roof and then spraying closed cell foam directly to the sheathing?
Yes, much better assembly
Correct. More layers and availability to deal with the metal separate from the rest.
Like others have said…. You are welcome here!!! Come on down
What should I use in my attic living in Louisiana New Orleans also do you know a reputable spray foam contractor in Louisiana?
I like 2 lb for the Hurricanes and humidity. No I do not know anyone.
@@SprayJoneswould that be considered open or closed cell?
In general you have been recommending closed cell foam, the spray folks in Florida have been recommending open instead … as it would not hold water, and because it’s breathable not cause condensation. What is a good product for Florida ?
Both can work. However cc has different attributes that oc doesn't: vapor retarder, higher R-value and greater strength for wind uplift.
I can go either way. The deciding factor is Hurricanes.... take the closed cell for strength if you can afford $$
Florida and Texas seem to have a lot of misinformation (from spray foam installers and builders) about open cell vs closed cell. For some reason, they seem to think closed cell will cause condensation, mold, and rot in the humid south because the lack of vapor permeability but all the research I see from folks like spray jones and Joe lstiburek say the opposite. If done correctly and with the right wall/roof assembly I seem to agree closed cell is superior or the better choice if it’s in your budget.
Let's say I'm putting 4inches on a non vented roof the inspector won't pass the house till I spray 4in around the whole face and side of the tip cord? Is he true or wrong
Wrong.
on 2" x 6" top cord we don't with 4" we don't spray 4" all around the wood. Nor do you in a wall assembly the physics are the same.
You need details drawn for where and how much.
I'd love to pick your brain about VENTED attic/roof insulation. I'm having my flat roof in Montreal done this year and there's zero, zero insulation nor vapour barrier (1940s house) and I'm having a hell of a time figuring out what I can do to bring it up to spec while they're up there.
Local contractors are not much help, they just keep sending me quotes with no insulation included despite my asking.
If you want an off-the-record review we can do that. Send me an email through my website and we can start talking.
So can someone please tell me if this is right. I live in Alabama. Hot and humid climate. Zone 2 to 3. So it’s best to use closed cell foam for walls and roof. Just make sure the walls and roof and watertight. Is that basically what it comes down to? Thank you for any responses . And if someone could show me the perfect wall or roof for my climate. Thanks
You are correct - plus the closed cell is better for hurricanes.
@@SprayJonesthank you sir
Would it be a economical and functional to close cell the ceiling and then open cell the exterior walls?
Sure.
I’m building a barndo and the builder isn’t venting the attic to my knowledge. With an attic that is not vented, does that mean I have to close cell foam it?
@@tjsorensen1892 I would hope so.... but not a guarantee.
What about if I spray foam at the top from outside and then place the shingles
You'd need to create a double cavity to install to. Twice the issues.
You must (in another video) discuss thermal bridging. You showed some shots of a roof truss system with spray foam between the wood and a few with the entire stud encapsulated. You did briefly mention rigid on the roof combined with spf.
You mentioned caulking double studs to prevent air leakage, but didn’t mention thermal bridging.
You agreed with need for adequate HVAC systems to control the interior humidity? But that is a big deal.
I did watch a Matt Risinger video where he discussed, with a building science engineer, that laying an ice and water over the entire roof IS NOT a good idea because it traps the water.
Come on down brother.
What is the difference between the purple foam and blue foam?
Manufacturer. Trademark colours.
Link to paper?
I don't have links set up yet for resource downloads.
This subject is so difficult to talk with building inspectors, some will not except anything other than having a 2" space between the plywood and foam.
Their morons, that can cause more issues that they will deny responsibility for.
They want to make sure that if moisture gets into your wall from outside, it can dry out.
No! Come to the UK! :P
Yah I have heard about all the non-sense over there with SPF.
suposed to be foam between deck qnd foam
Letting things dry both ways, besides a foundation is typically the best case scenario. The dense pack fiberglass is a no Brainer, a more cost effective, higher r-value, longer lasting inert install. Spray foam is great as a tool but I'd rather hot box a roof with glass than foam, unless it was a combo install. I'm never worried about moisture problems in New england in a closed cavity cieling with dense pack glass. I usually deliver higher to much higher r values than foam at a much lower price.
Persistent salesman just like a used car salesman
Get out of Canada now! BUT do your research and don’t move to a “mini Canada” state in the US. Caution, there are several that are on the edge right now while still being considered conservative states. Someone with your skill set, work ethic and knowledge will do VERY well in the US! Show up, do quality work and charge a fair but adequate rate and you’re golden. Reliable contractors are getting harder to find every day! Good luck. Trudy sucks.. (I live 10 miles from the border) on the U.S. side. 👍🏻
Thanks!
Americans cant stand Trudeau either....
Liked for the hanging by his you know whats
Just eat the damn orange!