@@damien9788 I agree. I have heard the DJM 750 mk2 and also the DJM 850. Both sound horrible and harsh. The horrible boosted upper mid-range and high frequencies hurt your ears.
Fantastic video, but there is alot missing here. I design boutique mixers, and loudspeakers and am a DJ too. Point 1: one of the biggest issues when comparing the difference between live/pa mixers and DJ mixers Is that the circuits are hugely different. (I'm gonna mainly go on about analog mixers because digital mixers are almost always expensive because DSP code is very difficult.) An analoge DJ mixer will always have an active iscolator eq and active volume control per channel with a unity gain summing amplifier afterwards to combine the channel due to the routing of fx and the crossfader and the cue system. A sweeping -20dB filter is both significantly easier to design than an isolator as well as cheaper (because an iscolator is effectively a 3 way crossover followed by active gain stage followed by a unity gain summing amplifier with a low voltage mute, while a sweep eq is just a notch filter + two shelfing filters cascaded). A midrange analoge pa/studio mixer will just have the eq and a summing amplifier with the faders being a passive volume control before the summing amp. They aren't equivalent in function and arnt equivalent in circuitry. The fx are also post fader which is harder to route than pre fader as post faders can't happen before a sum but still have to be after the volume control, so you need separate active volume stages. Point 2: upgrade paths, if your willing to look further a feild there's a decent selection of more out there 2 channel mixers, just not from pioneer, I agree that it's missing alot of fx based mixers but when fx units such as the kaoss pad wipe the floor with most mixer fx units a send and return will do the job nicely. Still that's why when I do boutique designs you can pick from 2, 4 or 6 channels, and what eq circuits you want. Another couple points, the quality of potentiometers on a dj mixer needs to be alot better, they get used alot more frequently, they need to feel nice, they need to be better spaced out so you can quickly grab the right one, alot of these concerns arnt that important in the cheaper end of analoge controllers. More space needed means bigger cases and PCBs so more expense. Durability is very hard to design into electronics, a surface mount component might be cheaper but the connections will snap off easier, through hole mounts are better but not perfect, my mixers use individual cables so the PCB doesn't get jolted evey time you move the faders up. If your adding complexity of manufacture the time goes up and batch size's go down, making the cost rise exponentially. There is some price gouging but to be honest it's very hard to compete without doing something none of the other companies are doing, my mixers have lab equipment level summing amplifiers and gain controls and are for the people who want the very best sound quality they can have. But they're also definitely far from cheap, or feature rich, but then again neither is an API console and people still have and use those.
You are right but the whole point is that when you turn up at a club you’re most likely going to have a Pioneer or A&H to play on. Best to practise on what you are going to play on.
Nice analysis you did, I'm sure your points are right, but I think you're looking at it from your perspective. Commercial manufacturers have more resources to dedicate to design & test of the equipment. I agree with the fact that the two have different designs, but once you reach the right one that satisfies your needs, you can reuse that. And this is valid not only for entire designs, but also portions (preamp, EQ, FX). Once you develop a good version of one of these blocks, I think it's only a matter of improving them, not redesigning from scratch. I'd like to ask you something, as you probably know the answer: consider a very simple mixer, with 2 channels (line only), three band eq, earphones out, two outputs... Now can you tell how much the DJ mixer would cost more than the studio one? Just an indicative number. Thanks
I have been running a Pioneer Pro Dj repair center for the last 20 years . One thing most DJs dont realise is the compromise in component quality that has crept into these products over each model "update" . A good example is the beautiful FL displays that have been replaced with cheap LCD displays . Faders from Alps Japan are also being replaced with inferior units from Alpha in China . You previously only found Alpha faders on Numark , Gemini and other Bedroom DJ gear . Very disappointing indeed .
On the flipside, as a repairman too, im surprised they are still pretty modular and repairable, nothing out of this world or too extreme has came. But yes. Things are definetly going offroad, have you seen the new specialty microswitches for cue and play on the cdjs 3000s and xdj xz?
Well, I started mixing over 25 years ago with a RODEC MX 180 mixer. I later bought a Pioneer DJM-600 because I wanted to try out effects. I was so happy when someone offered to trade his Xone:92 for my DJM-600. I really hated that mixer. The knobs and faders were pretty loose and just came off sometimes. I eventually put a drop of superglue on the metal so the plastics endcaps of the faders would hold. Sometimes, luckily very rarely the mixer just randomly errored while doing effects, resulting in a clicking sound and I had to take out the power cable. I know Pioneer is the industry standard but even now their mixers feel a bit cheap. Sure, they have all the effects, but they feel flimsy. The Allen & Heath feels way sturdier, holds its value way better also. Still, no mixer I ever touched feels like my RODEC. I bought it second hand, it was used and abused in a pub/dancing, I abused it for several years when DJ'ing all over the country and still, this thing still works extremely well, doesn't crackle, faders and knobs all still perform very well, this thing is built like a tank.
Pioneer. Poorly built. Sound quality pony.. Bought a MasterSounds Mk 2 valve 4 .. Quality build, awesome sound quality.. Well with just over 3 grand.. Very nice 🎧
@@davidhorner1000 idk how you mean by "poorly built" unless you kick and bash the mixer. i still own my DJM-850 and it looks brand new and it works like brand new. Sound quality wise is the same as 900nexus. Every digital mixer will distort if you redline it
@@davidhorner1000 I totally agree. Most djs don’t go for sound quality. They just go for the effects , built in software and other stuff. I’ve done comparisons in front of djs and all have agreed Pioneer does not have good sound quality. I guess the only thing good about Pioneer is the marketing. Maybe the older Pioneer mixers but not the newest stuff.
Numark scratch is the best low end option out there, particularly for beginners. 2ch, good connections, innofader, USB, effects paddles, clean layout, Serato Pro included within the box!
4 Chanel Mixers had there time in the "2 x Turntable & 2 x CDJ Aera". But today its out of time. I own a Allen&Heath 23c. I choose it, cause of the booth out. All the small Mixers from Pioneer doesn't have one. So for me, the small Pioneer Mixers are no professionell DJ Mixers, they are Bedroom Mixers.
1:26 no, the Pioneer DJM250 Mk2 does not sound perfectly fine. At least not with Vinyl. The phono preamps on the DJM250 mk2 are junk. However I do agree with pretty much everything else you're saying. The price jump between the DJM 250mk2 to the DJM450 is huge!
@@Quietschus I have a Xone 43c and the phono preamps are very good, i also own a Xone 22 and the preamps are also very good in that mixer as well. They may not be perfect high-end Hi-Fi standard preamps, but they are certainly better than anything Pioneer offers. Go and compare your Xone 42 to Pioneer mixers and you will notice how much better it sounds. For example, my bottom of the line/ budget Xone 22, sounds better than a Pioneer DJM 900 Nexus which is a 1,900 Pound mixer! Pioneer sound like junk.
@@AmbientWanderer OK, thanks, I did have the impression pioneer sounded a bit worse (although I didn't do a direct comparison), but comparing my xone42 to a hifi-amp (nothing crazy, technics su-c03) the xone really wasn't good at all...I ordered a cheap vintage dual preamp yesterday, will see if that does the job a bit better....Thanks for your explanations!
@@Quietschus What did you use for a phono cartridge? DJ carts are not made to sound good. The output is way too high, and the way the cantilever mounts to the cart body has to be reinforced to take abuse, not produce sound quality.
@@AT-wl9yq I know I din't use the best cartridge (ortofon concorde pro s), but I checked different phono preamps with the same cartridge and the results were very different
Too many kids are willing to pay for CDJ-3000s and DJM-900 and now DJM-V10 thinking that great equipment can make them a star one day. And Pioneer knows that. And many kids don't make it or lose interest. Something like XDJ-XZ for home is more than enough and actually quite expensive. Nothing wrong with Numark for home set up. What makes you a good dj anyway is being able to perform with any equipment, your music selection and your programming skills rather than a sh1tbox with FXs and a player that makes it easy for you to mix.
As an owner of both, you have a point. You can get a great analog mixer with USB input for next to nothing in comparison to a DJ mixer. I have been using an Yamaha mix for year and it cost way less than my Rane.
i been out the game for a long while, but i can't believe how the prices have dropped for live mixers. i remember when i was researching them years ago, a 12 channel would be like $699 or more. now i see they're around $300 or cheaper. damn i wished dj gear was like that
Currently thinking about upgrading from the Xone 23C and I strongly agree with you. It is amazing how much more money they charge you for just a few additional features.
A thought, not sure if it's been addressed here already: DJ mixers have phono preamps, which studio mixers do not have (at least none that I've seen). Theoretically, if a DJ mixer has 4 channels, that's possibly 4 phono preamps which need to be built in, plus whatever circuitry for the ability to switch the channels to line-level inputs. If I am wrong about this, please share your knowledge.
I bought a Xone 23 to replace my 22 - used it for a few days and sent it back. There is no headroom on the phono channels. To get a decent signal through you have to crank the gain way past 3 o'clock. Spoke to Allen & Heath about it and they admitted it was a drawback of having the phono and line going through the same circuit(s). Still going with the 22! But I have to agree - dj mixers for home use are way too expensive and the step up in price gets even more silly if you decide to move up the product range I've also wondered why don't the Pioneer mixers have a Record Out?
I’ve had two xone 23’s, one of which I trashed myself, now a xone 43 and this one I’ll have for good. Installed an innofader and it’s all analogue and primed for smooth house. Superb mixers which sound pure and warm with a club 2 cartridge. The Pioneers I overlooked but I’m told are the standard.
I use an XDJ XZ on the club I always work on. When I work at a wedding bringing my own gear, a second hand 350€ Kontrol Z2 + Traktor Pro 3 does the job for me. I think it's the best option if you don't mind using DJ software, and you still can connect players to it (missing the FX). In my opinion, 350€ is not much as that's what you charge for 2 gigs.
a key thing to look at is boutique rotary mixers. the ones that are priced fairly come down to around the same price as the top end linear fader mixers shown in the video. except every single knob on them costs 20 dollars a pop and its more than likely hand built. something definitely needs to change. i really miss the early 2000s era of dj mixer design, not that the prices were much better back then.
my fave mixers back in the 90's where Formula Sound PM-80 and the later Formula Sound PM-90. awesome mixers, fully modular, you even were able to swap out channels in seconds if needed. yes also while the club was open and running. oh and best of all? no beat counter no sync button no fancy bullshit.
Great points. I have a Allen & Heath studio mixer that was less than $300. The dj mixer I now want Xone DB4 is $2000. I hope it last $10+ years because I decided on it already
The worst thing about DJ mixer's are House Music DJ's who do slow (but very basic fade) 3 minute transitions, from one beatmatched track to the next. They *pretend* to touch every switch and knob on the mixer, and *pretend* to be really busy, but if you listen, nothing actually changes with the sound. They also take the cringe factor to another level by doing dad dancing moves, waving their arms about, and generally thinking they are god-like.
I can’t agree more! Many DJs think they are so cool, but all they do is add FX to sizzle up their already boring generic tracks without a soul. Their dancing and other cringe behaviors are due to them attempting to hype up their crap song selection too. Sadly, it has become more about their own ego-stroking than focusing on what really matters: giving the crowd FUN music. Just because its a hype mix doesn’t mean its fun to listen to. Any DJ can do your generic house/top40/EDM but the real champs are the ones who do unquantized disco, and to some extent hiphop. And yeah it super sucks how DJs turn knobs for no reason at all other than leveling, cueing or changing sound.
@@jamiedomingo9814 Thank you for backing up my opinion. Back in the late 80's and early 90's the DJ's were really busy cutting between tracks and dropping new sections in to remix on the fly, while doing a bit of scratching too, I'm talking early rave scene. I totally respect HipHop turntablists, especially ones who use vinyl, although even digital turntablists do a hell of a lot more than House DJ's.
So, I only started to get into DJ stuff when the pandemic started. The expensive pricing of the DJ mixers that has the features I want/need is why (for now) I have chosen to stick with DJ-ing using RekordBox on the computer. Then use MIDI mapping to put all the mixing features the software offers onto the Xone K2 that I specifically purchased for that. And one of the advantages of DJ-ing with software is that there are more features available with both filters and FX's. Took me a long time to MIDI map and MIDI route everything to satisfaction for RB. Results into 4-deck control with all the FX features of RB all on a single Xone K2 thanks to the 3 latching layers. Yeah, I know the feel of the K2 controller is no where like a proper DJ mixer. But it does get the job done this way in a very compact and mobile format. Just me, laptop and Xone K2, pass me a RCA and we're good to go, or sometimes outdoor even with a set of Minirig 3 speakers. Doing this do requires me to buy into the Pioneer RekordBox subscription service, as to use MIDI mapping in RB (when it's not hardware unlocked) requires at the minimum the Core plan that cost 10 bucks p/m.
@@davide2.07 The K2 works very well with the AH official .tsi from their website. I would recommend any NI controller but to say which one is the best it all depends on how you play. I used to own an S4 mk1 and I like it. But then i sold it to get a more portable setup. Rekordbox will release an ios version early next year (based on the wedj app I assume) so i think portablism will be on the rise next year. It's definitely not for everyone but let's see how it goes...
Like you mentioned, the real problem is that Pioneer and Allen and Health have a monopoly on all things DJ. No other companies can produce an industry standard mixer. Not to mention a CDJ. I remember buying my first Pioneer DJM600 in 2004 and that was still $850 USD. Then I got the first Allen and Heath Xone 92 in 2006 for $1699.99 USD. They really don't care about the economy market dj's, and now prices are even more astronomical. What a shame.
I use an XDJ XZ on the club I always work on. When I work at a wedding bringing my own gear, a second hand 350€ Kontrol Z2 + Traktor Pro 3 does the job for me. I think it's the best option if you don mind using DJ software, and you still can connect players to it (missing the FX).
Not bashing anyone's fave mixer but I still use a Rane TTM 56 at home and it still works like new (Built in 2001) and the beast still sounds fantastic. I don't need bells and whistles because I now play Soul and Funk 45s on wax. I've been a DJ since 1988 so I've used everything. When I'm out I use the default Pioneer and A&H mixers which do the job nicely for the session, but I wouldn't buy one it's overkill for my style. Everyone to there own, but DJing has always been about parting with the cash. Pay To Play, unfortunately.
The rane ttm series was great. Had the ttm 57 for serato when I first started. Now I recently bought a mastersounds radius 4v as I don’t want to bother with digital vinyl anymore.
This is a great video spotlighting the gap in the current market! I wish one of the big companies would fill it, either pioneer, a&h or denon! I guess the djm 450 kinda fills the spot but I much prefer the A&H sound and effects having previously owned a db4. If they made a ‘px2’ with 2 channels, fx and a send and return i’d buy it in a heartbeat. I just don’t have the space or money to get a px5 or another db4.
Yes I agree that what you pay for is what you get with it comes to DJ mixers, designed to mix two or more sound sources together in a nutshell, but a studio mixer is designed for line-in / mic in in-puts, a studio mixer don’t have any turntable preamps build in, so if you try and connect a turntable to a studio mixer the sound is all wrong, but all DJ mixer have a turntable preamp build in as standard. Plus, the high-end DJ mixers have Digital inputs, Pioneer DJM 900 / V10 / A9 mixers that you don’t get on a standard studio mixer. If you use Pioneer PRO-LINK over a ethernet hub, then information is sent from say CDJ 3000 to the DJM 900 / V10 / A9 mixer, information is passed between the devices , Which is so useful if you are using on onboard effect on the mixer, as the BPM inform from the CDJ 3000’s is in sync, so if you change the BPM on the CDJ 3000, it’s changes on the mixer in real-time, and they so lots more thing you can configure when using the PRO-LINK, You can set the CDJ 3000’s into “on Air Mode”, so when you move you up the fader on a channel on the mixer, The CDJ 3000 LED turns RED, so you know it playing out, this like that can make a big difference when you are playing in a club environment, so at a glance you can see what CDJ 3000 is playing out. So yes, DJ mixers are more expensive, but they have different functions from a studio mixer, that is what you are paying for.
Great video, and without the backing music that is so distracting, as you said DJ`s can sometimes be clobbered re cost, but many home or starter DJ`s invite that as they fall for they hype. Im a DJ and a producer with my own home studio, and use Behringer and Hercules gear for both stage and studio gigs, the cheap gear today is much better than the most expensive gear of yesteryear, and the recording of years gone by still continue to thrill most people, so in my humble opinion, its less about the gear and more about the person. once again thanks for a great video.
Bellringer sounds OK, but hercules is proper shite! Move onto the cheapest 2 channel ecler nuo2 and the sound quality is completely different...I had an A&H 96 for a week and then sent it back and got a mastersounds 4v.....it made the A&H sound cheap....even my ecler evo 5 which I had before...
Depends on the mixers you're looking at - the Allen & Heath XONE:43 is more comparible in price to the example you showed and remember when you're talking about 4 channels on a DJ mixer that's 8 on a studio mixer. Don't discount the analog filters on many DJ mixers either - go and look at how much a good multimode filter will cost you in Eurorack format and you'll start to see where the differences are coming from. It all adds up. You'll also hear people rave about the quality of the sound you get from an Allen & Heath DJ mixer - I've never heard anyone get excited about a Zed - and the difference in the pots etc is significant. Besides circuits aren't created equal. I'd actually consider a DJ mixer more of an instrument than a studio mixer - it will have character and performance attributes. I think what you're really highlighting is that certain brands might be expensive. I don't think Allen & Heath DJ mixers are over priced compared to their studio contempories when you consider everything.
"I've never heard anyone get excited about a Zed". Truth be told: I was very excited about the ZEDi8 PA mixer when I first got it, replacing a Behringer PA mixer. So much better in every way.
If you're using analog mixers like the Xone 92, it's all basically old tech, so no reason why it costs so much other than it's what people are still willing to pay. Most DJ-mixers are digital these days and all the filters, EQs and many of the effects in them are pretty basic from a computational stnadpoint and haven't changed in decades. It's all DSP-processed anyway and the DACs and ADCs aren't anything special either.
I watched this as I bought an Allen and Heath xone DB4 from Juno which had many major issues with it. Looking for a PX5 now. Fantastic video by the way.
I saw this in the comments already, but I find this the biggest problem: for vinyl, the phono-preamps of both xone and pioneer (didn't test all of them of course) just don't hold up - and the mixers that probably do (rane etc) are just so much pricier again...
Even with the 96, I found phonos really lacking. I bought 2 Dynasty preamps and they were worth the extra cost ~65 USD. Plus they're great if you're just digitizing old vinyl (via USB). There is no delay to the mixer as the signal is straight analog being amplified.
Pioneer S7/Rane 70 is quite well featured for a small mixer. What's wrong with DJ mixers ? Most miss a MIDI din port to sync your production gear for lives 😉
Just an argument that might get lost in business 😅 ... the "CLUB STANDARD" in Germany in the 80s was a "DYNACORD SM8030", in the 90s a "DYNACORD M1" and for some time now it has been the "XONE 96" ... the ability of a DJ - to find all functions and features almost blindly - can only be reproduced if you are really well versed in the subject matter. So what is the best way to avoid buying a current club mixer? P.S. In addition to the 8030, M1, an Ecler SCLAT and the D&R Clubmix, I also own the Hi-Level PM-8000 and PM-6000 as well as a Denon DN-X-1600 ... and of course a XONE 96 in top condition. So I am certainly able to compare. But I can understand your arguments.
I know im very late to this topic, but most mixing boards don't come with cueing & built-in ground for turntables! But i do understand what you mean, I've been a DJ for 30 years and have noticed how the industry tends to "nickel & dime" you.!
Idk if your structuring came with experience but man you just said it straight how it is. I’m a beginner but I did notice this. I just didn’t know how to put everything together. I recently bought a db4 of course for the effects and the the fact that it’s a 4 channel mixer. But I was thinking maybe I should’ve bought a mixer instead I could plug it in the turntable and virtually use a software and drag tracks in different channels. Or I could’ve used my push 2 as a mixer but the feeling is not the same. Like I said I’m still a beginner hope this made sense
Traktor s4 mk3 is the goat. Works as a mixer with 4 line, 2 phono, 2 mics inputs. Has 4 channel. Can work without even a pc (tho you only have the filter effect). And costs about 700 euros
@@GavGrant For sure, it's absolutely fine for digital. If i were to play digital only it would be my first choice. I was thinking of buying but as soon as i heard how bad the phono preamps sounded i was actually really disappointed and decided to pass on it. Bit gutted really because otherwise it would have been a perfect little 2 channel mixer!
Great video thanks. I'm in the process of moving from a controller to media players and looking at mixers. You're bang on with the gap in the 2 channel mixer option....cheers
why would anyone start with mixing on a cheap mixer? seems like it will only make it much harder to adapt to club standards , you should just start mixing on a xone 96 right away
The pricing might seem absolutly stupid, but a price is not objective, its a function of what the actors on the market are willing to pay. I still hate it tho.
There is a lot more energy that is able to flow through channels when simultaneously open (Full songs/tracks!) via a professional DJ mixer like Pioneer it seems. However, a cheaper mixer might somehow cancel out the same amount of energy/tracks when 2 track faders are being opened.
What? Just...no!😄PA-mixers like the ZED-14 have plenty of headroom, after all they are often the next piece of gear inline after the dj-mixer to route the signal through to the controller and amps. They also need that headroom when using them to mix bands and other artists, often with close-up mics and very hot levels on the inputs.
I had a pioneer djm250, one day i decided to connect my cdj straight into the back of my amp. I had some cheapo kam speakers that always sounded cheap and mid rangey with hardly any bass or tops. With my cdj connected directly to my amp, those rubbish sounding speakers came to life, nice bass, sparkly toos and mids that didn’t drown everything else out. I could not believe how much that pioneer mixer strangled the sound. Afyer upgrading my speakers, i found out that the pioneer has really harsh sounding tops. Pioneer make shit sounding mixers. I would never call anything pioneer “industry standard”
@@AmbientWanderer And High pass and low pass filters sound really hash, weirdly the bass sounds separate from the rest of the music like my speakers are not producing all the frequencies between the sub and mids. Ive got an Allen & Heath xone23 now and the sound is warm and solid across the frequencies.
Allen n heath are high end in the dj world but low to mid in the live sound world. That's one of the main price differences. Today the real comparison is Yamaha dm3d with Dante for $2k vs xone 96 at $2.7k
I hate that the 2 channel market has everything trimmed off. With Pioneer, they have shonky analogue pre-amps until you get up to the 900. With Xone you don’t get two filters until you get to the 92/96. I just want a xone 2 channel mixer with 4 band eq and 2 filters. They know that most people will get the 96.
I need 3 channels or else I am having to compromise and change my method. with tracktor it is used for looping and layering. comes in handy. theres even greater lack of 3 channel mixers available now.
The main point you didn't really consider is that these high-end DJ mixers have high-end multichannel audio soundcards. When you start to look at anything with 8-16 channels of audio in and out, the mixers look to be quite good value. Even modestly prices studio/live mixers tend to only have 2 channels of in and out audio over USB. And yes, that v10 mixer from Pioneer is just insane price-wise. I've been on an A&H Xone:PX5 and just ordered a Xone:96 - because I do need the extra channels.
You already get high-quality inputs and outputs from the relatively affordable A&H ZED-14 that was shown in the video. Making these addressable over USB is not expensive at all these days and both linear and non-linear distortions are well below the hearing threshold, with plenty of I/O. If you just need a usb-interface with a few in-/out-channels and superb DACs and ADCs, go for something like the Motu M4. DJ-Mixers don't really have anything special when it comes to soundcards or ADCs/DACS, so it's not the reason for them being priced so unreasonably. As was stated in the video, it's most likely what the market is willing to pay.
@@iliketoast-q9b Actually you missed my point. The mixer you referenced again is USB audio channel limited. You then recommended another channel limited option for an audio interface. We are talking 24 channels vs 4. A quality audio interface with the number of channels I am describing is typically north of $1000. The cheapest non-DJ mixer that actually has a proper USB channel to mixer channel match is the Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK. And yes, that is cheaper than a DJ mixer, but still not a cheap mixer.
@@guser7137 I just told you it's not expensive to have lots of internal audio-channels, up to a point of course. Having lots of independent physical I/O (i.e. ADCs and DACs) is more expensive for sure, but why would a DJ-Mixer need more than 4-6 independent I/Os? DJ-Mixer are primarily meant to be connected to the main speaker system, booth-monitors and a recording device via stereo connections. The latter has a fixed gain, but other than that they all output the same signal. There are also some effect-channels for external fx-units, but those are in stereo as well. Also you can get quality soundcards with plenty of I/O for well under 1000$. For instance the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 will have more channels than almost anyone would ever need and it's just under 500€ over here, even with inflated prices.
@@iliketoast-q9b That's quite a limited definition of a DJ mixer. 4-6 independent IOs. Now you're talking 8-12, because it is STEREO. I've already given you clear examples of the cost of those extra channels. DJ mixers usually have PRO spec USB audio, i.e. my mixer Xone:96 is 32-bit/96k. And yes, I use all the channels. The Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 is an "OK" interface. It's not great but sufficient for most people. Personally, I go with MOTU although recently the fact their interfaces are not 100% class compliant has been a headache.
@@guser7137 First of no 32-bit DAC really has 32-bit of bit-depth/dynamic-range and also what are you gonna do with all that headroom, let alone 96kHz of samplerate? DJ-Mixers aren't for recording in a studio and a lot of clubs still play music in mono and have crappy sound-systems. I don't like it either but that's the way it is and so we're not talking about boutique, high-end mixers or consoles. As you need all those channels I get why your mixer would be more expensive and you probably would bring your own hardware to the venue you're playing at. But it's a different story when you look at the prices of standard, but high-quality DJ-mixers with solid specs and no fancy bells and whistles. I'm actually right now tasked with finding a club-mixer for our venue with a limited budget and club-mixers like the DJM750MK2, Xone92 or X1850 Prime (I prefer the Denon btw) all cost around 1.5k and that's just ridiculous if you ask me. I like Motu as well and I have an M4 sitting on my desk as I type this, love it! According to Amir at audiosciencereview it's as good as RME-Interfaces when it comes to ADC/DAC-quality at least and has very low headphone output impedance. Cost me just 240€, no regrets whatsoever.
I use the Roland 505 in clubs and the place is lit. Never have issues or failures and people dance from door open to close. Mind you this is only in my dreams as I can't DJ yet. One day. But I do know a DJ.
que mesa de mezclas me recomiendas alfonso? es ir a mi tercer y último equipo de dj. La idea es pinchar con dos platos y conectar la mesa al pc para poder tener opción analogico-digital. Gracias. PD: Tengo en mente la Pioneer DJM 450. Creo que la djm 250 es muy básica y quizás la djm750 es demasiado. Uso doméstico.
That would be superb!! 2 channels, 4 band EQ, a few great effects who automatically fit with the bpm and analogue sound for a reasonably price. I swear they couldn’t follow the orders, so popular it will be.
I question the quality of Pioneer, my DJM 1000 needs over $700 dollars of repairs, I had to replace my RMX 1000 because Pioneer could not repair it, the large knobs on my RMX 500 and RMX 1000 had to be replaced. These products never leave my home studio. In contrast my Xone 92 has been to the shop only once in over a decade and that was to get it back to org condition, less than $300. and I used the Xone much more than the Pioneer.My 2 Vestax mixers were working fine when they were retired. Maybe I've just been unlucky but I suspect when that the Pioneers breakdown in clubs it's just no big deal to replace them.
Skytec sells a 2-channel mixer with EQ's for $99. Behringer also makes some nice 4 channel mixers for extremely low prices. Ultimately there are so many options at so many price points that there has never been a better time to be a DJ, and that is before checking the used market. Even the A&H DB4 which is about a decade old is an amazing mixer that Pioneer only recently managed to copy. I think we are at peak DJ mixer territory and this is why we're now seeing all of the boutique high end mixers come to the market because there simply isnt more that users need so they have get exotique. I do like the idea of the Model 1 and Formula Sound mixers as they will never go out of date and are bulletproof, do I really need this if I mix 2 songs with traktor? Nope! But it sure as hell is a lot of fun to play with.
Have you seen the price discrepancies in other instruments? In my opinion the dj industry is priced fairly compared to guitars and many other instruments. I can appreciate what you’ve identified but this market has something to offer all types of DJs.
I agree made the same mistake bought a djm 750 mk2 from pioneer they are decent but no where near worth the money I've gone back to my old behringer ddm4000 ... yes it's old but it has more flexibility to my needs I even have a crossover built in this mixer that can be adjusted too I may stick to older equipment for now
very interesting topic, I have a SSL SiX mixer because I wanted something with lots of routing and good build quality. Now I look at dj mixers, a Xone96 or Modal1, because of the stereo Sends/returns,, but the F expensive boxes!
If only studio mixers had -inifinty on the EQ instead of 15/18dB cut! I'm looking around at the mo for "different" ways to DJ so I don't just sound a clone of every other DJ. Got a Presonus 16:0:2, some Akai midi controllers. (APC64, minimix and a APK25) and a Focusrite 4in4out so now just need to sort EQ - I may go the VST route once it's all plugged together. Started with a DDJ-400 so then a Denon MCX-8000 but it's not what I need - so a smaller Serato based controller is on the cards. I want SoundSwitch Integration to control my lights.
I concur the price comparison between dj gear vs other live gear is atrocious. The solution is for us to speak with our wallets and stop buying things that don’t offer value to price in line with other products
Go A&H... These mixers can push sound with absolutely NO distortion because they're full anolog as opposed to pioneer which are digital mixers and sound like crap if too much sound comes thru!
I think there is still a place for a 4 channel mixer at home. More than 2 channels means you can mix in a speech or A capella into your mix. With the Xone PX5 , you can also work with Traktor and their Remix / Stem decks. It is a shame though that the industry thinks that 2 channels are just for the turntablist. You end up paying for a bunch of scratch Dj features you don't need. A few years ago Rane came out with the 2014 Rotary mixer, and recently Formula Sound came out with the FF2.2... but these were priced way out of the way of the home user... and I doubt many touring DJ's would put them on their riders. It's a tough one :)
DJ mixers take more of a battering and mixer boards use cheaper electronics,faders and pots... It's simple I agree that pioneer don't break down but they rule the DJ world because their marketing is the best...as a mixer I haven't touched one in 23 years of DJing... If you get a reputable DJ that loves their sound in a club they will request certain mixers... and I will tell you now, it won't be a Pioneer of an Allen and Heath....fact. It's always best to get a separate sound FX unit in my opinion...
Are Formula Sound not in the clubs as much as they were before? Also, Allen + Heath mixers are so much less expensive there than they are here in the States!
Unfortunately not. Most DJs hate them based on the way they look apparently (really?). I love them and own an original PM80. Pioneer make AWFUL mixers, but most DJs are thick and brainwashed by marketing and conformity lol. Allen & Heath are great too, I own an Xone 23.
@@peachent You're right. I've never owned a Pioneer mixer and don't ever see myself owning one. I am, however, a member of the cult of Formula Sound, lol. FF6.2L and I adore every ounce of it.
@@ericburgos I expected a lot of hate for my comment, so your reply was a refreshing change lol. I haven't used any of their recent mixers but I've used the PM80S/90s and FSM600 many times. I owned a FSM600 for a while too, but they just don't seem as well built at the modular mixers and their headphone outputs are a bit 'fuzzy'. Formula Sound have a brand new mixer coming out this year actually.
Quality control and maybe cheaper parts being used are causing a lot of problems with the newer Allen & Heath mixers. They’re just not as reliable as they used to be.
@@AmbientWanderer Allen and Heath was useless a transformer had blown on the main board they wouldnt touch it. But luckily he has a brother who is super talented with electrics and built a transformer from scratch he has now fixed. he said they are not built well
Thank you! My English language is not good and i need to ask something because im using flx4. If i buy some mixer is it possible to use effect pedals on it and pioneer rmx1000? I looking for way to use effect pedals and specially pioneer rmx1000 with my flx4.
Hi have a 900 nx2 2 and xzone 92 I and I would say the xzone mixer is much more durable I would recommend xzone mixers plus you can use external effects like guitar pedals it's a great mixer if you don't want effects and later on can always add to it
Some crollers are cheaper yes, but the sound quality it’s not great. I bought the djj 1000 fro pioneer it’s a great controller but when it comes to sound it sounded too digital in bad way. I return it right away
But not a an industry standard, numark has recently been making quality mixers ever since being acquired by "inMusic", prior to that it was crappy! Thats why no one uses numark bcus its bad rep.
How about audio mixers in conjunction with dj mixers or dj controllers? Running the connections from the controller through a sound mixer is the way to go for better sound right?
Agree. It’s crazy how expensive DJ gear is for the technology and features you get!
Hyped prices, djing companies must be drowning on money
especially pioneers crazy price point，their build quality and sound quality never match their price.
@@samye2001 J'ai la djm750mk2 et je trouve que le son est mauvais, surtout sur les fréquences hautes , qui sont dégradées.
@@samye2001 Agree, they sound like absolute junk. Even their flagship mixers don't sound that great!
@@damien9788 I agree. I have heard the DJM 750 mk2 and also the DJM 850. Both sound horrible and harsh. The horrible boosted upper mid-range and high frequencies hurt your ears.
Fantastic video, but there is alot missing here. I design boutique mixers, and loudspeakers and am a DJ too.
Point 1: one of the biggest issues when comparing the difference between live/pa mixers and DJ mixers Is that the circuits are hugely different. (I'm gonna mainly go on about analog mixers because digital mixers are almost always expensive because DSP code is very difficult.) An analoge DJ mixer will always have an active iscolator eq and active volume control per channel with a unity gain summing amplifier afterwards to combine the channel due to the routing of fx and the crossfader and the cue system. A sweeping -20dB filter is both significantly easier to design than an isolator as well as cheaper (because an iscolator is effectively a 3 way crossover followed by active gain stage followed by a unity gain summing amplifier with a low voltage mute, while a sweep eq is just a notch filter + two shelfing filters cascaded). A midrange analoge pa/studio mixer will just have the eq and a summing amplifier with the faders being a passive volume control before the summing amp. They aren't equivalent in function and arnt equivalent in circuitry. The fx are also post fader which is harder to route than pre fader as post faders can't happen before a sum but still have to be after the volume control, so you need separate active volume stages.
Point 2: upgrade paths, if your willing to look further a feild there's a decent selection of more out there 2 channel mixers, just not from pioneer, I agree that it's missing alot of fx based mixers but when fx units such as the kaoss pad wipe the floor with most mixer fx units a send and return will do the job nicely. Still that's why when I do boutique designs you can pick from 2, 4 or 6 channels, and what eq circuits you want.
Another couple points, the quality of potentiometers on a dj mixer needs to be alot better, they get used alot more frequently, they need to feel nice, they need to be better spaced out so you can quickly grab the right one, alot of these concerns arnt that important in the cheaper end of analoge controllers. More space needed means bigger cases and PCBs so more expense.
Durability is very hard to design into electronics, a surface mount component might be cheaper but the connections will snap off easier, through hole mounts are better but not perfect, my mixers use individual cables so the PCB doesn't get jolted evey time you move the faders up. If your adding complexity of manufacture the time goes up and batch size's go down, making the cost rise exponentially.
There is some price gouging but to be honest it's very hard to compete without doing something none of the other companies are doing, my mixers have lab equipment level summing amplifiers and gain controls and are for the people who want the very best sound quality they can have. But they're also definitely far from cheap, or feature rich, but then again neither is an API console and people still have and use those.
Where can I find your products, please?
Yes I need a mixer building
How can I contact you ?
You are right but the whole point is that when you turn up at a club you’re most likely going to have a Pioneer or A&H to play on. Best to practise on what you are going to play on.
Nice analysis you did, I'm sure your points are right, but I think you're looking at it from your perspective.
Commercial manufacturers have more resources to dedicate to design & test of the equipment.
I agree with the fact that the two have different designs, but once you reach the right one that satisfies your needs, you can reuse that.
And this is valid not only for entire designs, but also portions (preamp, EQ, FX).
Once you develop a good version of one of these blocks, I think it's only a matter of improving them, not redesigning from scratch.
I'd like to ask you something, as you probably know the answer: consider a very simple mixer, with 2 channels (line only), three band eq, earphones out, two outputs...
Now can you tell how much the DJ mixer would cost more than the studio one?
Just an indicative number.
Thanks
I have been running a Pioneer Pro Dj repair center for the last 20 years . One thing most DJs dont realise is the compromise in component quality that has crept into these products over each model "update" . A good example is the beautiful FL displays that have been replaced with cheap LCD displays . Faders from Alps Japan are also being replaced with inferior units from Alpha in China . You previously only found Alpha faders on Numark , Gemini and other Bedroom DJ gear . Very disappointing indeed .
@DJ Dholl Finger - so which mixer would you recommend nowadays for a bedroom DJ and pro DJ?
On the flipside, as a repairman too, im surprised they are still pretty modular and repairable, nothing out of this world or too extreme has came. But yes. Things are definetly going offroad, have you seen the new specialty microswitches for cue and play on the cdjs 3000s and xdj xz?
Well, I started mixing over 25 years ago with a RODEC MX 180 mixer. I later bought a Pioneer DJM-600 because I wanted to try out effects. I was so happy when someone offered to trade his Xone:92 for my DJM-600. I really hated that mixer. The knobs and faders were pretty loose and just came off sometimes. I eventually put a drop of superglue on the metal so the plastics endcaps of the faders would hold. Sometimes, luckily very rarely the mixer just randomly errored while doing effects, resulting in a clicking sound and I had to take out the power cable. I know Pioneer is the industry standard but even now their mixers feel a bit cheap. Sure, they have all the effects, but they feel flimsy. The Allen & Heath feels way sturdier, holds its value way better also. Still, no mixer I ever touched feels like my RODEC. I bought it second hand, it was used and abused in a pub/dancing, I abused it for several years when DJ'ing all over the country and still, this thing still works extremely well, doesn't crackle, faders and knobs all still perform very well, this thing is built like a tank.
@@BonkoemChemiya For bedroom Dj you can try the new Numark Scratch, or NI Z2 mixer...
I’ve owned a bunch of mixers but Pioneer sounds awful. Not sure how it’s club standard. Xone , Urei and Alpha Recording sound way better.
Pioneer is better with marketing and also the service capability of a Pioneer mixer is a lot more straight forward than a xone:96 being fully analog.
If you redline the mixer. Of course it’s gonna sound awful. I personally prefer Pioneer over Xone. It just looks better
Pioneer. Poorly built. Sound quality pony.. Bought a MasterSounds Mk 2 valve 4 .. Quality build, awesome sound quality.. Well with just over 3 grand.. Very nice 🎧
@@davidhorner1000 idk how you mean by "poorly built" unless you kick and bash the mixer. i still own my DJM-850 and it looks brand new and it works like brand new. Sound quality wise is the same as 900nexus. Every digital mixer will distort if you redline it
@@davidhorner1000 I totally agree. Most djs don’t go for sound quality. They just go for the effects , built in software and other stuff. I’ve done comparisons in front of djs and all have agreed Pioneer does not have good sound quality. I guess the only thing good about Pioneer is the marketing. Maybe the older Pioneer mixers but not the newest stuff.
Numark scratch is the best low end option out there, particularly for beginners.
2ch, good connections, innofader, USB, effects paddles, clean layout, Serato Pro included within the box!
I've been a fan of Numark my while life. Never the best, but reliable, and almost always a great value.
Having repaired a lot of pioneer mixers I can tell you they are built way cheaper than any pa mixer iv3 ever taken apart , total bullshit
Yeah, Pioneer is complete F*** junk. the amount of money they are robbing from the consumers is unreal
4 Chanel Mixers had there time in the "2 x Turntable & 2 x CDJ Aera". But today its out of time. I own a Allen&Heath 23c. I choose it, cause of the booth out. All the small Mixers from Pioneer doesn't have one. So for me, the small Pioneer Mixers are no professionell DJ Mixers, they are Bedroom Mixers.
Agreed mate, 2ch with quality sound and effects is only what we need at home
The djm 250mk2 and the Traktor x1 my setup at Home
1:26 no, the Pioneer DJM250 Mk2 does not sound perfectly fine. At least not with Vinyl. The phono preamps on the DJM250 mk2 are junk.
However I do agree with pretty much everything else you're saying. The price jump between the DJM 250mk2 to the DJM450 is huge!
Yes, but I have the same problem with my xone42 - there seem to be no "normale" Dj-Mixers with good phono-amps....really frustrating
@@Quietschus I have a Xone 43c and the phono preamps are very good, i also own a Xone 22 and the preamps are also very good in that mixer as well. They may not be perfect high-end Hi-Fi standard preamps, but they are certainly better than anything Pioneer offers. Go and compare your Xone 42 to Pioneer mixers and you will notice how much better it sounds. For example, my bottom of the line/ budget Xone 22, sounds better than a Pioneer DJM 900 Nexus which is a 1,900 Pound mixer! Pioneer sound like junk.
@@AmbientWanderer OK, thanks, I did have the impression pioneer sounded a bit worse (although I didn't do a direct comparison), but comparing my xone42 to a hifi-amp (nothing crazy, technics su-c03) the xone really wasn't good at all...I ordered a cheap vintage dual preamp yesterday, will see if that does the job a bit better....Thanks for your explanations!
@@Quietschus What did you use for a phono cartridge? DJ carts are not made to sound good. The output is way too high, and the way the cantilever mounts to the cart body has to be reinforced to take abuse, not produce sound quality.
@@AT-wl9yq I know I din't use the best cartridge (ortofon concorde pro s), but I checked different phono preamps with the same cartridge and the results were very different
I can’t understand the phenomena of youtube videos, the more quality the content is, the less views it has.
Too many kids are willing to pay for CDJ-3000s and DJM-900 and now DJM-V10 thinking that great equipment can make them a star one day. And Pioneer knows that. And many kids don't make it or lose interest. Something like XDJ-XZ for home is more than enough and actually quite expensive. Nothing wrong with Numark for home set up. What makes you a good dj anyway is being able to perform with any equipment, your music selection and your programming skills rather than a sh1tbox with FXs and a player that makes it easy for you to mix.
As an owner of both, you have a point. You can get a great analog mixer with USB input for next to nothing in comparison to a DJ mixer. I have been using an Yamaha mix for year and it cost way less than my Rane.
i been out the game for a long while, but i can't believe how the prices have dropped for live mixers. i remember when i was researching them years ago, a 12 channel would be like $699 or more. now i see they're around $300 or cheaper. damn i wished dj gear was like that
Currently thinking about upgrading from the Xone 23C and I strongly agree with you. It is amazing how much more money they charge you for just a few additional features.
A thought, not sure if it's been addressed here already:
DJ mixers have phono preamps, which studio mixers do not have (at least none that I've seen). Theoretically, if a DJ mixer has 4 channels, that's possibly 4 phono preamps which need to be built in, plus whatever circuitry for the ability to switch the channels to line-level inputs.
If I am wrong about this, please share your knowledge.
I bought a Xone 23 to replace my 22 - used it for a few days and sent it back. There is no headroom on the phono channels. To get a decent signal through you have to crank the gain way past 3 o'clock. Spoke to Allen & Heath about it and they admitted it was a drawback of having the phono and line going through the same circuit(s). Still going with the 22!
But I have to agree - dj mixers for home use are way too expensive and the step up in price gets even more silly if you decide to move up the product range
I've also wondered why don't the Pioneer mixers have a Record Out?
I’ve had two xone 23’s, one of which I trashed myself, now a xone 43 and this one I’ll have for good. Installed an innofader and it’s all analogue and primed for smooth house. Superb mixers which sound pure and warm with a club 2 cartridge. The Pioneers I overlooked but I’m told are the standard.
Just bought a ecler concept 2 mixer and it’s solid, 100 euros. As new.
I use an XDJ XZ on the club I always work on. When I work at a wedding bringing my own gear, a second hand 350€ Kontrol Z2 + Traktor Pro 3 does the job for me. I think it's the best option if you don't mind using DJ software, and you still can connect players to it (missing the FX). In my opinion, 350€ is not much as that's what you charge for 2 gigs.
agreed. I just bought a krontol s2 mk2 for 50 quid paired with an antique 2007 macbook running traktor 2.5 absolutely amazing!
a key thing to look at is boutique rotary mixers. the ones that are priced fairly come down to around the same price as the top end linear fader mixers shown in the video. except every single knob on them costs 20 dollars a pop and its more than likely hand built. something definitely needs to change. i really miss the early 2000s era of dj mixer design, not that the prices were much better back then.
my fave mixers back in the 90's where Formula Sound PM-80 and the later Formula Sound PM-90. awesome mixers, fully modular, you even were able to swap out channels in seconds if needed. yes also while the club was open and running. oh and best of all? no beat counter no sync button no fancy bullshit.
Great points. I have a Allen & Heath studio mixer that was less than $300. The dj mixer I now want Xone DB4 is $2000. I hope it last $10+ years because I decided on it already
Good choice sir
The worst thing about DJ mixer's are House Music DJ's who do slow (but very basic fade) 3 minute transitions, from one beatmatched track to the next.
They *pretend* to touch every switch and knob on the mixer, and *pretend* to be really busy, but if you listen, nothing actually changes with the sound. They also take the cringe factor to another level by doing dad dancing moves, waving their arms about, and generally thinking they are god-like.
I can’t agree more! Many DJs think they are so cool, but all they do is add FX to sizzle up their already boring generic tracks without a soul. Their dancing and other cringe behaviors are due to them attempting to hype up their crap song selection too. Sadly, it has become more about their own ego-stroking than focusing on what really matters: giving the crowd FUN music. Just because its a hype mix doesn’t mean its fun to listen to.
Any DJ can do your generic house/top40/EDM
but the real champs are the ones who do unquantized disco, and to some extent hiphop.
And yeah it super sucks how DJs turn knobs for no reason at all other than leveling, cueing or changing sound.
@@jamiedomingo9814 Thank you for backing up my opinion.
Back in the late 80's and early 90's the DJ's were really busy cutting between tracks and dropping new sections in to remix on the fly, while doing a bit of scratching too, I'm talking early rave scene.
I totally respect HipHop turntablists, especially ones who use vinyl, although even digital turntablists do a hell of a lot more than House DJ's.
@@DjNikGnashers I totally agree!!!!
So, I only started to get into DJ stuff when the pandemic started. The expensive pricing of the DJ mixers that has the features I want/need is why (for now) I have chosen to stick with DJ-ing using RekordBox on the computer. Then use MIDI mapping to put all the mixing features the software offers onto the Xone K2 that I specifically purchased for that. And one of the advantages of DJ-ing with software is that there are more features available with both filters and FX's.
Took me a long time to MIDI map and MIDI route everything to satisfaction for RB. Results into 4-deck control with all the FX features of RB all on a single Xone K2 thanks to the 3 latching layers. Yeah, I know the feel of the K2 controller is no where like a proper DJ mixer. But it does get the job done this way in a very compact and mobile format. Just me, laptop and Xone K2, pass me a RCA and we're good to go, or sometimes outdoor even with a set of Minirig 3 speakers.
Doing this do requires me to buy into the Pioneer RekordBox subscription service, as to use MIDI mapping in RB (when it's not hardware unlocked) requires at the minimum the Core plan that cost 10 bucks p/m.
Awesome! I have the same setup like yours but with traktor. I just started as well. It is a bedroom djs happy meal isnt it?🤣
@@lennixgriffiths hey! How come you went with a K2 to control traktor? What other controllers did you consider? X1? S2/4?
@@davide2.07 The K2 works very well with the AH official .tsi from their website. I would recommend any NI controller but to say which one is the best it all depends on how you play. I used to own an S4 mk1 and I like it. But then i sold it to get a more portable setup. Rekordbox will release an ios version early next year (based on the wedj app I assume) so i think portablism will be on the rise next year. It's definitely not for everyone but let's see how it goes...
Like you mentioned, the real problem is that Pioneer and Allen and Health have a monopoly on all things DJ. No other companies can produce an industry standard mixer. Not to mention a CDJ. I remember buying my first Pioneer DJM600 in 2004 and that was still $850 USD. Then I got the first Allen and Heath Xone 92 in 2006 for $1699.99 USD. They really don't care about the economy market dj's, and now prices are even more astronomical. What a shame.
I use an XDJ XZ on the club I always work on. When I work at a wedding bringing my own gear, a second hand 350€ Kontrol Z2 + Traktor Pro 3 does the job for me. I think it's the best option if you don mind using DJ software, and you still can connect players to it (missing the FX).
Not bashing anyone's fave mixer but I still use a Rane TTM 56 at home and it still works like new (Built in 2001) and the beast still sounds fantastic. I don't need bells and whistles because I now play Soul and Funk 45s on wax. I've been a DJ since 1988 so I've used everything. When I'm out I use the default Pioneer and A&H mixers which do the job nicely for the session, but I wouldn't buy one it's overkill for my style. Everyone to there own, but DJing has always been about parting with the cash. Pay To Play, unfortunately.
The rane ttm series was great. Had the ttm 57 for serato when I first started. Now I recently bought a mastersounds radius 4v as I don’t want to bother with digital vinyl anymore.
@@johngoldsworthy7135 enjoy your purchase mate. 👍❤️
@@mokujinsan9946 thanks man, cheers
This is a great video spotlighting the gap in the current market! I wish one of the big companies would fill it, either pioneer, a&h or denon! I guess the djm 450 kinda fills the spot but I much prefer the A&H sound and effects having previously owned a db4. If they made a ‘px2’ with 2 channels, fx and a send and return i’d buy it in a heartbeat. I just don’t have the space or money to get a px5 or another db4.
PX2, what a great idea
@@guycalledguyuk +1 on a PX2. I'd buy that in a heartbeat if it was priced well!
This would be a fantastic upgrade to the Xone 23c.
Man I really hope Rodec comes back wit a quality analog mixer. Theyr designs are just so sick and they sound awsome too!
Z1 and X1 mk2 got me covered for ages and I’m super good with it. I don’t need too much complicated gear like I used to.
right..? i dont even got any dj gear but all i would ever need is a z1 and maybe some effects trigger. easy
Yeah, I'm triying a cheap simple solution like a laptop, a Xone K2 and Traktor 3....
Yes I agree that what you pay for is what you get with it comes to DJ mixers, designed to mix two or more sound sources together in a nutshell, but a studio mixer is designed for line-in / mic in in-puts, a studio mixer don’t have any turntable preamps build in, so if you try and connect a turntable to a studio mixer the sound is all wrong, but all DJ mixer have a turntable preamp build in as standard.
Plus, the high-end DJ mixers have Digital inputs, Pioneer DJM 900 / V10 / A9 mixers that you don’t get on a standard studio mixer.
If you use Pioneer PRO-LINK over a ethernet hub, then information is sent from say CDJ 3000 to the DJM 900 / V10 / A9 mixer, information is passed between the devices , Which is so useful if you are using on onboard effect on the mixer, as the BPM inform from the CDJ 3000’s is in sync, so if you change the BPM on the CDJ 3000, it’s changes on the mixer in real-time, and they so lots more thing you can configure when using the PRO-LINK, You can set the CDJ 3000’s into “on Air Mode”, so when you move you up the fader on a channel on the mixer, The CDJ 3000 LED turns RED, so you know it playing out, this like that can make a big difference when you are playing in a club environment, so at a glance you can see what CDJ 3000 is playing out.
So yes, DJ mixers are more expensive, but they have different functions from a studio mixer, that is what you are paying for.
Great video, and without the backing music that is so distracting, as you said DJ`s can sometimes be clobbered re cost, but many home or starter DJ`s invite that as they fall for they hype. Im a DJ and a producer with my own home studio, and use Behringer and Hercules gear for both stage and studio gigs, the cheap gear today is much better than the most expensive gear of yesteryear, and the recording of years gone by still continue to thrill most people, so in my humble opinion, its less about the gear and more about the person. once again thanks for a great video.
Bellringer sounds OK, but hercules is proper shite! Move onto the cheapest 2 channel ecler nuo2 and the sound quality is completely different...I had an A&H 96 for a week and then sent it back and got a mastersounds 4v.....it made the A&H sound cheap....even my ecler evo 5 which I had before...
3 years later and a xone 23c typically ranges around 500 here in the US. It has only gotten worse
Pioneer had one, but it were not cheap. DJM 909, the best 2 channel FX mixer out there!
Depends on the mixers you're looking at - the Allen & Heath XONE:43 is more comparible in price to the example you showed and remember when you're talking about 4 channels on a DJ mixer that's 8 on a studio mixer. Don't discount the analog filters on many DJ mixers either - go and look at how much a good multimode filter will cost you in Eurorack format and you'll start to see where the differences are coming from. It all adds up. You'll also hear people rave about the quality of the sound you get from an Allen & Heath DJ mixer - I've never heard anyone get excited about a Zed - and the difference in the pots etc is significant. Besides circuits aren't created equal. I'd actually consider a DJ mixer more of an instrument than a studio mixer - it will have character and performance attributes. I think what you're really highlighting is that certain brands might be expensive. I don't think Allen & Heath DJ mixers are over priced compared to their studio contempories when you consider everything.
"I've never heard anyone get excited about a Zed".
Truth be told: I was very excited about the ZEDi8 PA mixer when I first got it, replacing a Behringer PA mixer. So much better in every way.
If you're using analog mixers like the Xone 92, it's all basically old tech, so no reason why it costs so much other than it's what people are still willing to pay. Most DJ-mixers are digital these days and all the filters, EQs and many of the effects in them are pretty basic from a computational stnadpoint and haven't changed in decades. It's all DSP-processed anyway and the DACs and ADCs aren't anything special either.
I watched this as I bought an Allen and Heath xone DB4 from Juno which had many major issues with it.
Looking for a PX5 now.
Fantastic video by the way.
Thanks a lot, I'm very happy with my PX5
@@AlfonsoMuchacho They told me you can only use a PX5 with older MacBooks, not with the new ones. Is that true?
I saw this in the comments already, but I find this the biggest problem: for vinyl, the phono-preamps of both xone and pioneer (didn't test all of them of course) just don't hold up - and the mixers that probably do (rane etc) are just so much pricier again...
Even with the 96, I found phonos really lacking. I bought 2 Dynasty preamps and they were worth the extra cost ~65 USD. Plus they're great if you're just digitizing old vinyl (via USB). There is no delay to the mixer as the signal is straight analog being amplified.
@@dreadsocialistroberts How do you use an external preamp with a mixer? How do you manage the levels?
Pioneer S7/Rane 70 is quite well featured for a small mixer.
What's wrong with DJ mixers ? Most miss a MIDI din port to sync your production gear for lives 😉
Just an argument that might get lost in business 😅 ... the "CLUB STANDARD" in Germany in the 80s was a "DYNACORD SM8030", in the 90s a "DYNACORD M1" and for some time now it has been the "XONE 96" ... the ability of a DJ - to find all functions and features almost blindly - can only be reproduced if you are really well versed in the subject matter. So what is the best way to avoid buying a current club mixer? P.S. In addition to the 8030, M1, an Ecler SCLAT and the D&R Clubmix, I also own the Hi-Level PM-8000 and PM-6000 as well as a Denon DN-X-1600 ... and of course a XONE 96 in top condition. So I am certainly able to compare. But I can understand your arguments.
Oops - I forgot my RODEC MX 240 MKIII, but I think, that doesn't matter ;-)
Good video and interesting comparison. Allen and heath analogue mixes do sound truly amazing. The px5 is a great bit of kit
I know im very late to this topic, but most mixing boards don't come with cueing & built-in ground for turntables! But i do understand what you mean, I've been a DJ for 30 years and have noticed how the industry tends to "nickel & dime" you.!
Idk if your structuring came with experience but man you just said it straight how it is. I’m a beginner but I did notice this. I just didn’t know how to put everything together. I recently bought a db4 of course for the effects and the the fact that it’s a 4 channel mixer. But I was thinking maybe I should’ve bought a mixer instead I could plug it in the turntable and virtually use a software and drag tracks in different channels. Or I could’ve used my push 2 as a mixer but the feeling is not the same. Like I said I’m still a beginner hope this made sense
Traktor s4 mk3 is the goat. Works as a mixer with 4 line, 2 phono, 2 mics inputs. Has 4 channel. Can work without even a pc (tho you only have the filter effect). And costs about 700 euros
I bought a DDJ1000 3 years ago. It's fab. Got my technics 1210's connected to it. 1/6th of the price of a full nexus set up. 👍
that's all well and good if you're willing to tolerate the shoddy sounding built in phono preamps.
@@AmbientWanderer OK, not as good as a nice warm analogue mixer yes, but I mainly play digital anyway so it's not an issue.
@@GavGrant For sure, it's absolutely fine for digital. If i were to play digital only it would be my first choice. I was thinking of buying but as soon as i heard how bad the phono preamps sounded i was actually really disappointed and decided to pass on it. Bit gutted really because otherwise it would have been a perfect little 2 channel mixer!
@@AmbientWanderer The DDj-1000 is a 4 channel mixer and the pre-amps are really not that bad mate! Its well usable
Can you do a video about FX units? For a Xone mixer for example.
Yes, planning to do a video on this in the next week
Great video thanks. I'm in the process of moving from a controller to media players and looking at mixers. You're bang on with the gap in the 2 channel mixer option....cheers
I enjoyed using Numark mixers.
why would anyone start with mixing on a cheap mixer? seems like it will only make it much harder to adapt to club standards , you should just start mixing on a xone 96 right away
The pricing might seem absolutly stupid, but a price is not objective, its a function of what the actors on the market are willing to pay. I still hate it tho.
There is a lot more energy that is able to flow through channels when simultaneously open (Full songs/tracks!) via a professional DJ mixer like Pioneer it seems.
However, a cheaper mixer might somehow cancel out the same amount of energy/tracks when 2 track faders are being opened.
What? Just...no!😄PA-mixers like the ZED-14 have plenty of headroom, after all they are often the next piece of gear inline after the dj-mixer to route the signal through to the controller and amps. They also need that headroom when using them to mix bands and other artists, often with close-up mics and very hot levels on the inputs.
You nailed it!
I’ve been feeling this way for a while now👍🏾
I had a pioneer djm250, one day i decided to connect my cdj straight into the back of my amp. I had some cheapo kam speakers that always sounded cheap and mid rangey with hardly any bass or tops. With my cdj connected directly to my amp, those rubbish sounding speakers came to life, nice bass, sparkly toos and mids that didn’t drown everything else out. I could not believe how much that pioneer mixer strangled the sound. Afyer upgrading my speakers, i found out that the pioneer has really harsh sounding tops. Pioneer make shit sounding mixers. I would never call anything pioneer “industry standard”
This is absolutely true regarding pioneer mixers. If I had to describe the sound id call it one dimensional and ‘Grainy’
@@AmbientWanderer
And High pass and low pass filters sound really hash, weirdly the bass sounds separate from the rest of the music like my speakers are not producing all the frequencies between the sub and mids. Ive got an Allen & Heath xone23 now and the sound is warm and solid across the frequencies.
@@AmbientWanderer
Just had a look at your channel, subscribed 👍
Allen n heath are high end in the dj world but low to mid in the live sound world. That's one of the main price differences. Today the real comparison is Yamaha dm3d with Dante for $2k vs xone 96 at $2.7k
I brought a reloop 44 and I thrash it. Cheap and does the job.
I hate that the 2 channel market has everything trimmed off. With Pioneer, they have shonky analogue pre-amps until you get up to the 900. With Xone you don’t get two filters until you get to the 92/96. I just want a xone 2 channel mixer with 4 band eq and 2 filters. They know that most people will get the 96.
Yep, exactly!
its always been that way.... it was that way in the 90 for sure.
I need 3 channels or else I am having to compromise and change my method. with tracktor it is used for looping and layering. comes in handy. theres even greater lack of 3 channel mixers available now.
The main point you didn't really consider is that these high-end DJ mixers have high-end multichannel audio soundcards. When you start to look at anything with 8-16 channels of audio in and out, the mixers look to be quite good value. Even modestly prices studio/live mixers tend to only have 2 channels of in and out audio over USB. And yes, that v10 mixer from Pioneer is just insane price-wise. I've been on an A&H Xone:PX5 and just ordered a Xone:96 - because I do need the extra channels.
You already get high-quality inputs and outputs from the relatively affordable A&H ZED-14 that was shown in the video. Making these addressable over USB is not expensive at all these days and both linear and non-linear distortions are well below the hearing threshold, with plenty of I/O. If you just need a usb-interface with a few in-/out-channels and superb DACs and ADCs, go for something like the Motu M4.
DJ-Mixers don't really have anything special when it comes to soundcards or ADCs/DACS, so it's not the reason for them being priced so unreasonably. As was stated in the video, it's most likely what the market is willing to pay.
@@iliketoast-q9b Actually you missed my point. The mixer you referenced again is USB audio channel limited. You then recommended another channel limited option for an audio interface. We are talking 24 channels vs 4. A quality audio interface with the number of channels I am describing is typically north of $1000. The cheapest non-DJ mixer that actually has a proper USB channel to mixer channel match is the Soundcraft Signature 12 MTK. And yes, that is cheaper than a DJ mixer, but still not a cheap mixer.
@@guser7137 I just told you it's not expensive to have lots of internal audio-channels, up to a point of course. Having lots of independent physical I/O (i.e. ADCs and DACs) is more expensive for sure, but why would a DJ-Mixer need more than 4-6 independent I/Os? DJ-Mixer are primarily meant to be connected to the main speaker system, booth-monitors and a recording device via stereo connections. The latter has a fixed gain, but other than that they all output the same signal. There are also some effect-channels for external fx-units, but those are in stereo as well.
Also you can get quality soundcards with plenty of I/O for well under 1000$. For instance the Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 will have more channels than almost anyone would ever need and it's just under 500€ over here, even with inflated prices.
@@iliketoast-q9b That's quite a limited definition of a DJ mixer. 4-6 independent IOs. Now you're talking 8-12, because it is STEREO. I've already given you clear examples of the cost of those extra channels. DJ mixers usually have PRO spec USB audio, i.e. my mixer Xone:96 is 32-bit/96k. And yes, I use all the channels. The Focusrite Scarlett 18i20 is an "OK" interface. It's not great but sufficient for most people. Personally, I go with MOTU although recently the fact their interfaces are not 100% class compliant has been a headache.
@@guser7137 First of no 32-bit DAC really has 32-bit of bit-depth/dynamic-range and also what are you gonna do with all that headroom, let alone 96kHz of samplerate? DJ-Mixers aren't for recording in a studio and a lot of clubs still play music in mono and have crappy sound-systems. I don't like it either but that's the way it is and so we're not talking about boutique, high-end mixers or consoles.
As you need all those channels I get why your mixer would be more expensive and you probably would bring your own hardware to the venue you're playing at. But it's a different story when you look at the prices of standard, but high-quality DJ-mixers with solid specs and no fancy bells and whistles. I'm actually right now tasked with finding a club-mixer for our venue with a limited budget and club-mixers like the DJM750MK2, Xone92 or X1850 Prime (I prefer the Denon btw) all cost around 1.5k and that's just ridiculous if you ask me.
I like Motu as well and I have an M4 sitting on my desk as I type this, love it! According to Amir at audiosciencereview it's as good as RME-Interfaces when it comes to ADC/DAC-quality at least and has very low headphone output impedance. Cost me just 240€, no regrets whatsoever.
Excellent, blody excellent movie! Really clear opinion with information and details. Thanks for sharing, totally worth watching.
Very nice video 👌but there is no good alternative either for Dj mixers (as usual we are wonderfully pushed into a corner....maybe...just like Apple?)
another product that prices are crazy is the pedal arena
I use the Roland 505 in clubs and the place is lit. Never have issues or failures and people dance from door open to close. Mind you this is only in my dreams as I can't DJ yet. One day. But I do know a DJ.
que mesa de mezclas me recomiendas alfonso? es ir a mi tercer y último equipo de dj. La idea es pinchar con dos platos y conectar la mesa al pc para poder tener opción analogico-digital. Gracias. PD: Tengo en mente la Pioneer DJM 450. Creo que la djm 250 es muy básica y quizás la djm750 es demasiado. Uso doméstico.
Excellent analysis! I really wish A&H would come out with a 2 channel mixer with filters on channels and effects.
That would be superb!! 2 channels, 4 band EQ, a few great effects who automatically fit with the bpm and analogue sound for a reasonably price. I swear they couldn’t follow the orders, so popular it will be.
I question the quality of Pioneer, my DJM 1000 needs over $700 dollars of repairs, I had to replace my RMX 1000 because Pioneer could not repair it, the large knobs on my RMX 500 and RMX 1000 had to be replaced. These products never leave my home studio. In contrast my Xone 92 has been to the shop only once in over a decade and that was to get it back to org condition, less than $300. and I used the Xone much more than the Pioneer.My 2 Vestax mixers were working fine when they were retired. Maybe I've just been unlucky but I suspect when that the Pioneers breakdown in clubs it's just no big deal to replace them.
Skytec sells a 2-channel mixer with EQ's for $99. Behringer also makes some nice 4 channel mixers for extremely low prices. Ultimately there are so many options at so many price points that there has never been a better time to be a DJ, and that is before checking the used market. Even the A&H DB4 which is about a decade old is an amazing mixer that Pioneer only recently managed to copy. I think we are at peak DJ mixer territory and this is why we're now seeing all of the boutique high end mixers come to the market because there simply isnt more that users need so they have get exotique. I do like the idea of the Model 1 and Formula Sound mixers as they will never go out of date and are bulletproof, do I really need this if I mix 2 songs with traktor? Nope! But it sure as hell is a lot of fun to play with.
Have you seen the price discrepancies in other instruments? In my opinion the dj industry is priced fairly compared to guitars and many other instruments. I can appreciate what you’ve identified but this market has something to offer all types of DJs.
Pioneer with vinyl is lacking the warmth A&H has. Even on the Xone 23 the sound is lovely.
Yeah I found the pre amps and filter on the Xone 23 to be absolutely wonderful, personal taste of course
Wow. Very enlightening. And having just a couple of weeks ago bought the MK250 MK2, slightly frustrating
What do you think about the model 1 mixer?
Dj mixers prices are bonkers.I love my mixer the Rane 72 mk2 but it’s silly money
I agree made the same mistake bought a djm 750 mk2 from pioneer they are decent but no where near worth the money I've gone back to my old behringer ddm4000 ... yes it's old but it has more flexibility to my needs I even have a crossover built in this mixer that can be adjusted too I may stick to older equipment for now
Get a MixStream from Numark and you get 2 players and a mixer for the price of one basic Pioneer mixer
very interesting topic, I have a SSL SiX mixer because I wanted something with lots of routing and good build quality. Now I look at dj mixers, a Xone96 or Modal1, because of the stereo Sends/returns,, but the F expensive boxes!
I always loved the sound of the Vestax mixers from the 90's and 2000. Like the PMC-25 or 05 Pro. Its a shame they went out of business.
I love how serious face is the same
I was hoping for the 100 pound alternative to the xone:96 but you didnt deliver.. gonna like the video anyway 😂
Allen & Heath hate this one simple trick…
If only studio mixers had -inifinty on the EQ instead of 15/18dB cut! I'm looking around at the mo for "different" ways to DJ so I don't just sound a clone of every other DJ. Got a Presonus 16:0:2, some Akai midi controllers. (APC64, minimix and a APK25) and a Focusrite 4in4out so now just need to sort EQ - I may go the VST route once it's all plugged together. Started with a DDJ-400 so then a Denon MCX-8000 but it's not what I need - so a smaller Serato based controller is on the cards. I want SoundSwitch Integration to control my lights.
Nice and complete video! 😊
I concur the price comparison between dj gear vs other live gear is atrocious. The solution is for us to speak with our wallets and stop buying things that don’t offer value to price in line with other products
As someone who uses hardware synths I am eyeing a XONE 96 or Playdifferently Model 1. Both very expensive.
Go A&H... These mixers can push sound with absolutely NO distortion because they're full anolog as opposed to pioneer which are digital mixers and sound like crap if too much sound comes thru!
I think there is still a place for a 4 channel mixer at home. More than 2 channels means you can mix in a speech or A capella into your mix. With the Xone PX5 , you can also work with Traktor and their Remix / Stem decks. It is a shame though that the industry thinks that 2 channels are just for the turntablist. You end up paying for a bunch of scratch Dj features you don't need. A few years ago Rane came out with the 2014 Rotary mixer, and recently Formula Sound came out with the FF2.2... but these were priced way out of the way of the home user... and I doubt many touring DJ's would put them on their riders. It's a tough one :)
px5 only has one pot for filter - its a joke
I bought the Xone 92 recently, lovely mixer.
Yes, and they have lovely sounding phono preamps. unlike most of the pioneer gear, which he forgot to mention in this video.
DJ mixers take more of a battering and mixer boards use cheaper electronics,faders and pots...
It's simple
I agree that pioneer don't break down but they rule the DJ world because their marketing is the best...as a mixer I haven't touched one in 23 years of DJing...
If you get a reputable DJ that loves their sound in a club they will request certain mixers... and I will tell you now, it won't be a Pioneer of an Allen and Heath....fact.
It's always best to get a separate sound FX unit in my opinion...
look at the difference in price between a sound desk and a DMX desk its even more extreme from a end user perceived value
Are Formula Sound not in the clubs as much as they were before? Also, Allen + Heath mixers are so much less expensive there than they are here in the States!
Unfortunately not. Most DJs hate them based on the way they look apparently (really?). I love them and own an original PM80. Pioneer make AWFUL mixers, but most DJs are thick and brainwashed by marketing and conformity lol. Allen & Heath are great too, I own an Xone 23.
@@peachent You're right. I've never owned a Pioneer mixer and don't ever see myself owning one. I am, however, a member of the cult of Formula Sound, lol. FF6.2L and I adore every ounce of it.
@@ericburgos I expected a lot of hate for my comment, so your reply was a refreshing change lol. I haven't used any of their recent mixers but I've used the PM80S/90s and FSM600 many times. I owned a FSM600 for a while too, but they just don't seem as well built at the modular mixers and their headphone outputs are a bit 'fuzzy'. Formula Sound have a brand new mixer coming out this year actually.
@@peachent The NN106. I'm hoping someone does a review of it when it drops!
@@ericburgos yeah it looks good, but second hand FS mixers on Ebay are still so much cheaper so sticking with my PM80.
My friends px5 has just packed up. He has to pay over 200 quid. It only lasted 6 years
Quality control and maybe cheaper parts being used are causing a lot of problems with the newer Allen & Heath mixers. They’re just not as reliable as they used to be.
@@AmbientWanderer Allen and Heath was useless a transformer had blown on the main board they wouldnt touch it. But luckily he has a brother who is super talented with electrics and built a transformer from scratch he has now fixed. he said they are not built well
i think the real thing wrong is DJs who don't utilize all these features. It like buying a Bugatti just to get the morning paper LOL
Thank you! My English language is not good and i need to ask something because im using flx4. If i buy some mixer is it possible to use effect pedals on it and pioneer rmx1000? I looking for way to use effect pedals and specially pioneer rmx1000 with my flx4.
Hi have a 900 nx2 2 and xzone 92 I and I would say the xzone mixer is much more durable I would recommend xzone mixers plus you can use external effects like guitar pedals it's a great mixer if you don't want effects and later on can always add to it
92 is the best with turntables - wish they had done effects on the px5
I prefer Allen&Heath to pioneer as the EQ crossover points are better selected.
I was a DJ for almost 10 years. It's very expensive hobby
I used so much mixers.. after 30 years my favorite are djm400, Freevox club, cs signature .
Totally fair comment
The only kind of competition in the dj mixer market is among rotary mixers
Agreed, I think small rotary with external fx might be the way to go
Allen and heath all the way. The 23c is a great option
Some crollers are cheaper yes, but the sound quality it’s not great. I bought the djj 1000 fro pioneer it’s a great controller but when it comes to sound it sounded too digital in bad way. I return it right away
It's like Apple. They said the stage, price, design with their phones and everyone just buys without critical thinking.
numark price and pretty good quality old ones out there
But not a an industry standard, numark has recently been making quality mixers ever since being acquired by "inMusic", prior to that it was crappy! Thats why no one uses numark bcus its bad rep.
How about audio mixers in conjunction with dj mixers or dj controllers? Running the connections from the controller through a sound mixer is the way to go for better sound right?
So true. I can't agree more 🥲