The point of "tamper evident" is that you can easily tell if someone unauthorised has opened it, so the lock being difficult to pick is relevant, because that wouldn't leave any clear signs.
From a 5 year banker and teller manager, LPL was spot on in this bag's design. He was also 100% correct that most businesses are moving to disposable, tamper-evident plastic bags. In all my time, I had maybe one client using this security bag, and it was a pain, since we had to keep the key provided to us by the business and fill out specific logs whenever we needed it.
@@anyGould I was thinking the same thing, these may be more or a pain in the ass, but I know of some that have been used two or three days a week, for the better part of a decade. The plastic are, for obvious reasons, single-use only. And if you muck up filling or sealing them, less than that.
My wife says that the best feature of these bags is the heavy lock on the bag. If somebody comes up to her and tries to steal the bag she can swing it and knock their lights out.
@@notfeedynotlazy is two giggles worth unlocking all the doors? Quite a conundrum.... Especially after you pay for the experience? so full escape room experience or 2 giggles which will it be? It would be funny only paying for 2 giggles.
@@_wanted_outlaw3007 I'm paying to have fun, not to have an "experience". If I pay to have fun, I will have my goddamn fun however I wish, thankyouverymuch ;-) if they want me to do it a specific way and not the way I find funny, THEY should be paying me. Now, where did that mike go after being dropped? Those things are expensive, mind you.
100% agree on the switch to plastic bags. A former employer had one person doing the deposits for years in a zipper bank bag. Wouldn't you know it, she was taking a little here and there, fudging the slips, and went unnoticed for a decade.
@@johnnyjohnson6643 She was the one filling the bag, and simply did not write the full amount on the deposit slip, shorting every drop, or altering the slip in the bag to a lower number.
They are not as easy as luggage. The zipper has better interlocks (when fairly new) making it a pain sometimes to get the zipper closed. Also, that would be evident tampering, which is what the bag is designed to show.
Except it will be visible to the trained eye because opening a zipper in that way does bend and warp the zipper track in an abnormal manner, such that someone who knew what to look for could tell it had been tampered with
As I was a banker for 42 years, I can tell you that these are the easiest to pick. Customers came in all the time forgetting their keys or something. I used to take a paperclip and pick them in 1 min or less. Thanks for these fun vids.
As a banker, weren't you supposed to *not* let them get their deposit without the key? I would change the bank immediately if I knew that one of the security features can be bypassed just like that.
"Sorry, I can't do this without a- Oh, what's that, boss? I'm fired for wasting a rich client's time? At least I made Michal D feel safe that one of our daily bypassed security features wasn't bypassed by at least one underpaid employee."
I worked in financial services for a bunch of years starting just a bit over 10 years ago. We NEVER used these kinds of bank bags, and the banks never bothered either. We used exclusively adhesive sealed plastic bags that were tamper evident. It was impossible to beat the adhesive once it stuck to the plastic of the bag, and as a result, the only way in was to either tear the bag (very obvious damage), or cut it, which again, is obvious. And the point was very much that: Was it tampered with? Once we handed over to Brinks, it was in their custody. They'd verify the state of each bag, and if anything happened between us and the bank (more specifically, the deposit processor), it was on Brinks. The system worked just fine. In 4 years, the only problems I ever had was if a bag was static-y and caused the seal to stick prematurely. Which obvious just meant grab a new bag. I couldn't imagine trusting any type of negotiable (be it cash or check/cheque, don't hate, I'm Canadian) to a crappy canvas-like bag like this.
While watching this video I saw a couple of paper clips on the table, so I decided to try to pick my bike lock. Got it open in a couple of minutes, and soon found a way to pick it in seconds. Then I tried a padlock I have used. That was even easier: It was enough to push all the pins down. I knew these were cheap locks but holy crap I didn't know they are that bad lol.
I haven't seen one of these used in decades. I worked in retail and we used these back in the '80s for our daily deposit, but by the mid to late 90s we stopped in favor of plastic courier bags with an adhesive strip. We'd mark a few details on the bag exterior with a sharpie. You could get into it with your teeth but all we cared about was tamper evidence.
I used to work at a bank. I remember on my first day the manager was showing me around. In one room there was a row of drawers with really cheap locks on them, and I almost told him how quickly I knew I could pick them. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut about skills you have 🙊
How did you pick it bro I’m starting to pick locks for fun and I got this bag and the money 7120D bag too I can’t pick it man how did you pick them did you need to use key weight tension
With the time i spent working for an armored currier, 99% of bags are the plastic tamper evident disposable bags. There were some super wonky night drop deposit type stations that had huge versions of these cloth bags with a sliding plastic door to seal it that i dealt with more than these little deposit bags. The clear plastic bags also have the advantage of being able to roughly confirm the value of what you are signing for, so you dont accidently break your carry limits and carry 400k in one bag when youre not supposed to, dunno who would do that.
I bought a high-value jewellery item for my wife a while ago, and it arrived in a tamper evident bag with all sorts of interesting features. Amazing piece of kit.
I remember closing shop and depositing the money when I was a regular summer temp 10+ years ago. We were using one-time sealable plastic bags already then. You would put the money in the bag, fill out a special paper slip and put it on top of the stack of money so it was visible through the plastic. The plastic bags themselves were fairly heavy-duty and resisted tearing (the plastic would stretch instead), and they had some kind of color pattern built into the plastic itself. Once sealed, they were pretty difficult to open. Without using some kind of blade, I bet they would take longer to open than this lock. Forgot to put in the paper slip a couple of times and had to get a new bag, so that's how I know.
Well before my lawyering days, and even before my days as a property manager when I had to play with locks on a regular basis, I worked at a bank and I was successful in opening one of these bags with very rudimentary tools when keys were lost. Pretty standard stuff, really.
As the ships locksmith and also an Intel guy, I carry bags like this a lot. People misunderstand their purpose, and you hit the nail on the head. Even when it comes to TS/SCI material the whole point is tamper evident custody transfer until it can be placed in the appropriate class 6 GSA container.
As a courier, I'd have the key with me too. The whole point was to be a trusted party and make a non-stop transport where the delivery times and locations were known to both the sender and receiver. Ultimately, it's the transporter that is really the 'security system,' the bag is hardened just enough so nobody can claim accidental spillage.
Nice comment about what security that bag is intended to provide! It's the kind of useful nuance a lot of discourse (in many fields) is lacking nowadays.
@@eravar2831 if I remember reading comments correctly somebody on this channel in a video that I cannot remember said he had something to do with Bethesda although I kind of doubt that, also WTF is litigation
Some UK banks use heavy leather bags with an Abloy disc detainer cam lock (which locks together a pair of heavy steel half loops that are hinged). Still not fully knife proof, but significantly more pick resistance.
I have argued this point to so many people. The reality that many "locks" are just proof of non-validated access not access prevention in anyway. Having an obvious/documented chain of custody is more valuable than a lock that would require more damage to value than the item being stolen. More and more they seem to be coming around to the reality that just letting them take it, is better than even trying to stop it.
Good Morning from Aus LPL. i recently purchased a CC and was going through the shed at my grandparents place for old locks to test and i found two Sidchrome Padlocks. i thought they might be an interesting lock to feature on your channel as one more about the history of locks then the actual skill needed to pick them. (i have yet to try them myself and didn't want to attempt them before learning if they are rare and/or valuable). in other news, i've racked open 3 Lockwood brand locks from the same stash that i found.
This video and some of the comments bring to mind something I'll share: I used to work for a machine/software company, so worked on various Point Of Sale/Cash Registers, ATMs, and other processing systems in stores and banks. It was common there was cash, cheques and other "interesting" things everywhere. You had to learn to just know that none of it was yours, and fully hands-off, and if not, welcome to unemployment and probably jail etc. So the bag in this vid: no matter whats inside, if your job was to carry it somewhere intact, it could have been made of paper and it would be as secure. Because the rule is about hands-off.
You are right. A lot of people making comments do not know the purpose of this type of bag. All they think about is how to get into the bag. It's made to carry your cash. Why would you want to steal your cash?
Is it actually good security to have "SEVEN PIN TUMBLER" right next to the lock? Isn't that just giving any potential picker a clue as to what they're in for?
We use one of these at work at both of the locations I work at. We have these "games of skill" machines (think: digital slot machines), and this bag (or one very similar to it, same kind of lock) is placed in a locked cabinet behind the counter, and the bag contains payout money and payout slips for those GoS machines. To get to this bag, a customer (or unauthorized employee) would have to 1). get behind the counter, 2). somehow open the cabinet at one location, or a drop safe at the other location, 3). get the bag out, 4). cut or pick the lock, to get to the contents. All of this would be recorded on camera. The bag, while not too terribly difficult to defeat, does its job amazingly well. No unauthorized persons have ever touched it, because everybody knows they're on camera, and the only ones authorized to open the bag are managers or the boss, and they are the only ones who have a key to the bag. Also, of note, the bag is designed in such a way that you cannot remove the key while the lock is open. I would liked to have seen LPL take the lock apart to show us how that works.
Today I would like to tell you guys, that for the first time in my life watching youtube videos has helped me so much in real life. My friend lost his key to front doors. Luckily it was a second lock in his doors that he doesnt usually lock. But the owner of the home forbid him to remove the lock with missing key by the force and so i went there with my fun package biught from amazon with some picks in it and i managed to open and remove the lock from the doors. Incredible feeling, only by watching LPL you can learn alot!!
I suspect the reason banks are moving to plastic with adhesive closures has less to do with the fear of competent pickers and more to do with _cheapness._
On what basis? if someone wants something open badly enough, it WILL eventually be opened, so instead of spending more and more to keep things unreliably in, it’d be more efficient to know if and when something was taken out. Cost effectiveness isn’t necessarily being cheap and having a less beefy lock doesn’t automatically make it less secure said, as LPL that isn’t really their job
This bag is similar to the bags they use at my hospital for transporting controlled drugs. They don't need keys, but they have a zip which when unzipped cracks in half a plastic tab, that has a code on it, which is 'ubique' and also printed on the paper work. Technically it's super easy to open, but it's reusable (only needing the plastic tabs replaced each time) and you can't put it back together after opening, since the tab is now in two pieces. Cool to see they used to do a similar thing with money at banks.
Nice one as always, definitely just meant as a "short term buffer" for staff to go from point a to b and drop it at the bank or vice versa. I do have to say as well, got a set of the Genesis picks, and they're awesome-- but I've noticed the thin short pick can be bent really easily (including straight backwards when trying to set binding pins, not just side to side) and it's difficult to get it formed back to a usable straightness-- I've gotten it formed back straight (mostly), but the metal just seems a little too soft/ flexible on the really thin pick. Obviously developing picking skills will further garner the necessary pressure and touch tactility application (I can open generic/ widespread use locks fairly quickly), just something I wanted to point out, new users/ pickers need to be very careful as not to bend/ warp the thinner picks.
We still use these bags at my work for sending money or other high value items through our internal mail between office buildings. They are a bit like bicycle padlocks: designed to keep people honest, not to prevent outright theft.
Still have a few of the old bags the banks used to give, which are cloth with a logo printed on them. They make nice small bags for things, but, as they do not have any method to close them, are not secure at all. The plastic bags now are tamper evident, as they normally come with a serialised cable tie you use to close it, or some come with a plastic zipper than has a numbered tag you use to seal the zip, the number written down on the deposit book inside the bag. Used with a night deposit ATM, though most banks now have gone away from that to using cash accepting ATM in the lobbies, where you do not even need a card to deposit into the account. Bit of a pain though, as you will find at 6PM that all these machines will no longer accept cash, as they have all received the business deposits from the local shops. Go there 7AM and you can deposit again, as they will have had enough cash withdrawn during the evening. You often see a person going from one to the other, depositing 500 notes at a time, till all are full, and they have to go to the next bank centre to carry on.
Also, cash deposit ATMs don't provide detection of embezzlement by the last shift in the shop, unlike sealed bags that are tied to the customer account and are opened on CCTV by bank tellers.
These types of bags are used for classified documents in the US Govt. The whole idea is that the courier leaves his location and performs a non-stop transport of the bag. Obviously a knife into the bag would warrent inquiry from a competent watchstander. It's still a little disappointing to see the lock itself picked in under a minute by a skilled lock-picker.
I was surprised when it went to 5 pins, but 6 and 7 made me think that somebody at least tried to make it better than a drawstring sack and a handshake.
Yeah the store I worked for always used the Plastic use once tamper bags. There truly was no reopening those bags once the seal was made short of a knife or scissors. So from a tamper perspective a lot more useful than a cloth bag. Though from an environment standpoint, I prefer the canvis bag. As all of the time we would always take the bag in ourselves and it would be obvious who stole what as we also logged the event. So could have used any bag for this as the tamper proof part was sort of moot.
At my job, about 10 years ago we switched to plastic bags. Imo much more "secure" in that in you try to peal the adhesive it leaves a big warning that says someone tried to do so, and cutting it just leaves evidence of cutting. There no way to open bag without evidence of tamper
When I turned 18 my mom left me and my older brother the apartment we lived in and she got her own, I set up a very basic alarm for my room (I used a code to shut off) my brother laughed because he didn't understand that even if it didn't alert police it would still show that he had gone in.
@@LeifNelandDk 😂😂😂 my brother wouldn't be stupid enough to get into my shit because he knows I'm crazy and I have lots of things that can really hurt him. The alarm was more to help him understand that he could never get away with getting in my shit
The only time I used these was to make bank deposit drops for the retail store I managed. Still, it felt better carrying the money in the bag than in an envelope.
"Moving to tamper evident plastic bags"... that was certainly the case when I last worked at a bank... 30 years ago. I'm surprised someone found the bag you had at this point.
As a school job I was a bellhop (and later a night auditor) at a hotel. I used to deliver these from the accounting office of the hotel to the bank down the street. (Picking them never crossed my mind.)
I worked with bags similar to this but instead of a lock it had a metal hole where you put a numbered plastic seal holding the zipper. If the seal is broken or replaced the recipient can notice the damage or note that the number does not match what was expected. Even if the seal gets replaced with one with falsified number, you would need time to replicate the correct number and maybe that wasn't feasible on time for deliver. I think is less complicated than a lock and in most cases would better expose the tampering.
LPL, banks supplied those bags to merchants for their daily or weekly deposits. Sometimes they were intended to be dropped in the night deposit slot at the bank, other times a armored truck would pick them up, depending on the neighborhood or risk aversion. Most of the time, cash wasn't in the bag, but checks, however today, with the ability to photograph or scan a check, it's no longer required to send checks to the federal reserve bank for processing. Today, the cloth bags with locks are mostly used by fast food restaurants, one of the few places that still deal in cash.
And idk where you’re getting the idea businesses picture deposit checks. I have yet to come across 1 business I’ve worked for that has ever picture deposited a check🤦♀️it’s always placed in a deposit bag and taken to a physical branch
@@isiahaf1359 Maybe Walmart? Present a check, check gets scanned for routing number, account number, amount and signature, then returned to you. The scanning lowers fraud and bounced checks and they get their money ASAP instead of the following day of a paper check being deposited. As a side, when a business deposits more than $7500, they fall into the same IRS reporting. Small instant transactions don’t trigger the reporting.
We have several of these bags. The zippers fail on them or the keys bend and break off in the key holes much more commonly than people losing the keys. I’ve always wondered if these were pickable since you can literally cut these up with a pair of fiskars scissors probably faster than picking them to gain access to the contents inside.
My church has been using tamper-evident plastic bags for offerings for many years. They have an adhesive strip on the closure flap, covered with release paper. The adhesive is extremely aggressive and once the flap has been glued shut, the only way of opening the bag is to cut it. The plastic is so tough that ripping it open would be difficult, even for a strong person.
@@johnnyjohnson6643 he's pointing out that , the church doesnt trust anyone handling the donation money , a thief could easily taken the bag away n cut it open later at his house or something .. having a tough bag/lock just means that someone inside the church has been stealing , so a proper measure has to be taken.. which is sad since it happens in the house of god.
I just started watching your videos about 3 weeks ago. I also listened to your keynote presentation at SaintCon, which I enjoyed very much. I do have a quick question for you. Have you ever considered designing your own padlock, thus eliminating all of the known weaknesses that you routinely exploit? Have you been approached by or considered partnering with an established lock manufacturer? It seems to me you could revolutionize the lock industry for the betterment of all. Just a thought. Thank you.
My girlfriend works at a bank and the bags they use now are clear plastic with an integrated zip tie type closure and they have 12 digit ID numbers on them
I'd imagine you could also attack the zipper directly by pushing a pen or something through it. It would be pretty evident that someone had tampered with it, but it would be non-destructive, and someone would have plausible deniability that it was a faulty zipper.
This seems to be in the same family as evidence bags, where you want to be sure you know that that the bag hasn't been tampered with in transit, all the while facilitating opening and re-closure with accountability.
As someone who has worked with tamper evident bags and tags these aren't used anymore. A normal bag secured with a tamper evident serial numbered tag is what's used. And a secure courier.
the plastic bag with sticky close, almost always have a bit of a gap unless you close them in a way that isn't on the instructions. If you just fold over, there is a gap on the corners.
In my experience, the biggest vulnerability with these bank bags (or even the new, wasteful, single-use plastic ones) is the human factor. Your employee could fudge your books and skim before assembling the deposit. Your employee could be dumb and always make the deposit at the same time of day, and carry the bag in plain view to show nefarious people that they have a big amount of money they likely won't fight for. (Unless they own the store) Or your employee could be MONUMENTALLY dumb and fall for the scam I heard about where someone put a sign on the night drop "Out of order, please use bucket below".
The protection against that is to detect fudging the books or deposit amount reported by bank not matching the (not fudged) books. One remaining trick is to lie about getting mugged on the way to the bank.
They can make money off of those plastic bags, they priced them to us at 20 cents each, but they're about 10 cents or less online. But we have stuck with these since they don't cost us anything.
used disposable, tamper-evident plastic deposit bags with an adhesive seal back in 1992 (30 years ago - yikes!) when I worked in a mall in Canada. Perhaps some banks have a slow adoption?
![[1591] The Replicant: Pocket Key Casting Perfected!](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/L5Fus7qbRZM/mqdefault.jpg)
![[1591] The Replicant: Pocket Key Casting Perfected!](/img/tr.png)
![[593] Gallium vs. Titalium - Abus Padlock Meets a Gruesome End](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jeghGhVdt9s/mqdefault.jpg)
For not being designed as a security device, but as a "tamper evident" device, it still has better lock security than master lock.
A bag of Chips have better lock security than Master Lock to be fair.
A glass of water has more deterrence than a Master lock.
A do not enter sign has a better lock security than master lock
@@BlitzerXYZ At this point, master lock is basically an invitation :-D
The point of "tamper evident" is that you can easily tell if someone unauthorised has opened it, so the lock being difficult to pick is relevant, because that wouldn't leave any clear signs.
From a 5 year banker and teller manager, LPL was spot on in this bag's design. He was also 100% correct that most businesses are moving to disposable, tamper-evident plastic bags. In all my time, I had maybe one client using this security bag, and it was a pain, since we had to keep the key provided to us by the business and fill out specific logs whenever we needed it.
Are the plastic bags at least recyclable? Seems a pity to ditch a perfectly good reusable design.
@@anyGould who cares lol
@@anyGould I was thinking the same thing, these may be more or a pain in the ass, but I know of some that have been used two or three days a week, for the better part of a decade. The plastic are, for obvious reasons, single-use only. And if you muck up filling or sealing them, less than that.
@@markslater1081 Everyone should
How is it that you can't find one time use plastic straws anymore but banks use one time use disposable plastic bags?
My wife says that the best feature of these bags is the heavy lock on the bag. If somebody comes up to her and tries to steal the bag she can swing it and knock their lights out.
User Friendliness: ✅
Thief Friendliness: 🤕
🤣🤣🤣🤣 my wife literally said the exact same thing lol
I want to see you disappoint an escape room's staff horribly by just going in and picking every lock instead, it would be hilarious
@@TheRatsintheWalls "ruin"
@@notfeedynotlazy is two giggles worth unlocking all the doors? Quite a conundrum.... Especially after you pay for the experience? so full escape room experience or 2 giggles which will it be? It would be funny only paying for 2 giggles.
@@_wanted_outlaw3007 I'm paying to have fun, not to have an "experience". If I pay to have fun, I will have my goddamn fun however I wish, thankyouverymuch ;-) if they want me to do it a specific way and not the way I find funny, THEY should be paying me.
Now, where did that mike go after being dropped? Those things are expensive, mind you.
@@_wanted_outlaw3007 I think it'd be worth it, sounds like quality content lol
MasterLock would sell these bags as "slash resistent"
Naw, they would make a cheap copy, and then sell that.
But decrease the pin size by 6
"It might not actually be Slash resistant, but surely Axl or Duff won't be able to get inside"
Level 9/10 Slash resistence rating.
(10: Not resistent, 9: Not resistent, 8: not resistent, ..., 1: not resistent)
You don’t need to be slash-resistant, just slash-evident.
100% agree on the switch to plastic bags. A former employer had one person doing the deposits for years in a zipper bank bag. Wouldn't you know it, she was taking a little here and there, fudging the slips, and went unnoticed for a decade.
Hm! Was she a picker, or did she somehow have the key?
@@johnnyjohnson6643 She was the one filling the bag, and simply did not write the full amount on the deposit slip, shorting every drop, or altering the slip in the bag to a lower number.
So how did she get caught?
@@SeanBZA If that were the case, what difference would a plastic bag make?
@@_Stormfather Paper trail, money doesn't just evaporate without someone eventually noticing.
Another vulnerability is a zip-line. It can be opened in the middle quite easily and then closed back without any visible damage.
Good point. I just recently saw one of Bosnian Bill's videos where he demonstrates that on a suitcase zipper.
They are not as easy as luggage. The zipper has better interlocks (when fairly new) making it a pain sometimes to get the zipper closed.
Also, that would be evident tampering, which is what the bag is designed to show.
Except it will be visible to the trained eye because opening a zipper in that way does bend and warp the zipper track in an abnormal manner, such that someone who knew what to look for could tell it had been tampered with
*You can open it easily but to close it you need to be able to move the zipper thingy, that is locked in place.*
@@JoeDurobot I have some experience in it. For a metal zip line it is usually easier to lock it back without zipper, even when not locked.
"To answer Steven's question: no, I can't pick it" *nearly had a heart attack here*, glad he continued the sentence 😆
As I was a banker for 42 years, I can tell you that these are the easiest to pick. Customers came in all the time forgetting their keys or something. I used to take a paperclip and pick them in 1 min or less. Thanks for these fun vids.
Wait is that true? Pickable with a paper clip?
@@c2thew156 Yes! All the time. The zipper release is spring loaded. When you got it picked it would just pop open.
As a banker, weren't you supposed to *not* let them get their deposit without the key? I would change the bank immediately if I knew that one of the security features can be bypassed just like that.
"Sorry, I can't do this without a- Oh, what's that, boss? I'm fired for wasting a rich client's time? At least I made Michal D feel safe that one of our daily bypassed security features wasn't bypassed by at least one underpaid employee."
@@michcio1234 We knew our customers. When the owner comes in, we help them out. When and employee came in, sorry can't help you.
I worked in financial services for a bunch of years starting just a bit over 10 years ago. We NEVER used these kinds of bank bags, and the banks never bothered either. We used exclusively adhesive sealed plastic bags that were tamper evident. It was impossible to beat the adhesive once it stuck to the plastic of the bag, and as a result, the only way in was to either tear the bag (very obvious damage), or cut it, which again, is obvious.
And the point was very much that: Was it tampered with? Once we handed over to Brinks, it was in their custody. They'd verify the state of each bag, and if anything happened between us and the bank (more specifically, the deposit processor), it was on Brinks. The system worked just fine. In 4 years, the only problems I ever had was if a bag was static-y and caused the seal to stick prematurely. Which obvious just meant grab a new bag.
I couldn't imagine trusting any type of negotiable (be it cash or check/cheque, don't hate, I'm Canadian) to a crappy canvas-like bag like this.
Tamper evident plastic bags with adhesive closure has been the standard in the armored car service for almost 2 decades now.
i really enjoy picking these cause that faux leather corner is so comfy to hold in the hand
This was actually a good video because I have handled these before and have wondered how secure they were. Thank you for the information.
They only keep honest people out.
Finally, a lock with a comfortable leather grip for LPL.
While watching this video I saw a couple of paper clips on the table, so I decided to try to pick my bike lock. Got it open in a couple of minutes, and soon found a way to pick it in seconds. Then I tried a padlock I have used. That was even easier: It was enough to push all the pins down. I knew these were cheap locks but holy crap I didn't know they are that bad lol.
I haven't seen one of these used in decades. I worked in retail and we used these back in the '80s for our daily deposit, but by the mid to late 90s we stopped in favor of plastic courier bags with an adhesive strip. We'd mark a few details on the bag exterior with a sharpie. You could get into it with your teeth but all we cared about was tamper evidence.
I used to work at a bank. I remember on my first day the manager was showing me around. In one room there was a row of drawers with really cheap locks on them, and I almost told him how quickly I knew I could pick them. Sometimes it's better to keep your mouth shut about skills you have 🙊
How did you pick it bro I’m starting to pick locks for fun and I got this bag and the money 7120D bag too I can’t pick it man how did you pick them did you need to use key weight tension
@@lacosa24x haha, I never did actually try. Didn't want anyone to get the wrong idea 😉
With the time i spent working for an armored currier, 99% of bags are the plastic tamper evident disposable bags. There were some super wonky night drop deposit type stations that had huge versions of these cloth bags with a sliding plastic door to seal it that i dealt with more than these little deposit bags. The clear plastic bags also have the advantage of being able to roughly confirm the value of what you are signing for, so you dont accidently break your carry limits and carry 400k in one bag when youre not supposed to, dunno who would do that.
I bought a high-value jewellery item for my wife a while ago, and it arrived in a tamper evident bag with all sorts of interesting features. Amazing piece of kit.
Happy Holidays LPL! Thanks for all you do :)
I remember closing shop and depositing the money when I was a regular summer temp 10+ years ago. We were using one-time sealable plastic bags already then. You would put the money in the bag, fill out a special paper slip and put it on top of the stack of money so it was visible through the plastic. The plastic bags themselves were fairly heavy-duty and resisted tearing (the plastic would stretch instead), and they had some kind of color pattern built into the plastic itself. Once sealed, they were pretty difficult to open. Without using some kind of blade, I bet they would take longer to open than this lock. Forgot to put in the paper slip a couple of times and had to get a new bag, so that's how I know.
Well before my lawyering days, and even before my days as a property manager when I had to play with locks on a regular basis, I worked at a bank and I was successful in opening one of these bags with very rudimentary tools when keys were lost. Pretty standard stuff, really.
But could you do it without leaving any marks?
@@LeifNelandDk You bet!
As the ships locksmith and also an Intel guy, I carry bags like this a lot. People misunderstand their purpose, and you hit the nail on the head. Even when it comes to TS/SCI material the whole point is tamper evident custody transfer until it can be placed in the appropriate class 6 GSA container.
All the cool kids are using AMD now.
As a courier, I'd have the key with me too. The whole point was to be a trusted party and make a non-stop transport where the delivery times and locations were known to both the sender and receiver. Ultimately, it's the transporter that is really the 'security system,' the bag is hardened just enough so nobody can claim accidental spillage.
@@conorjohn490 I only do local. I’ve always had the bag and key….. pointless IMO. Least I know I’m honest.
If you handle classified material, you shouldn't make that obvious on public internet forums.
@@phillipnunya6793 no one cares
LOVE the knowledge and forethought when speaking! Happy holidays to the LPL family!! :)
At least they were kind enough to let you know there are 7 pins to pick right next to the keyway.
I like the tension wrench getting the body of the wrench out of the way.
Nice comment about what security that bag is intended to provide! It's the kind of useful nuance a lot of discourse (in many fields) is lacking nowadays.
Seemingly throw away lines like "banks are moving to..." demonstrate how much background knowledge LPL has.
@legacysage Or maybe he is an actual lawyer, and his practice might involve banking?
I mean, he is a lawyer.
@@Wasserkaktus he did litigation for 15 years for corporate governance. He mentioned it in his keynote speech
@@eravar2831 if I remember reading comments correctly somebody on this channel in a video that I cannot remember said he had something to do with Bethesda although I kind of doubt that, also WTF is litigation
thank you have a good time over the break and looking forward to you in 2022
Some UK banks use heavy leather bags with an Abloy disc detainer cam lock (which locks together a pair of heavy steel half loops that are hinged). Still not fully knife proof, but significantly more pick resistance.
I have argued this point to so many people. The reality that many "locks" are just proof of non-validated access not access prevention in anyway. Having an obvious/documented chain of custody is more valuable than a lock that would require more damage to value than the item being stolen. More and more they seem to be coming around to the reality that just letting them take it, is better than even trying to stop it.
I remember seeing a magician/escape artist open one of these without tools in under 30 seconds. The vulnerability is in the zipper itself.
Good Morning from Aus LPL. i recently purchased a CC and was going through the shed at my grandparents place for old locks to test and i found two Sidchrome Padlocks. i thought they might be an interesting lock to feature on your channel as one more about the history of locks then the actual skill needed to pick them. (i have yet to try them myself and didn't want to attempt them before learning if they are rare and/or valuable). in other news, i've racked open 3 Lockwood brand locks from the same stash that i found.
This video and some of the comments bring to mind something I'll share: I used to work for a machine/software company, so worked on various Point Of Sale/Cash Registers, ATMs, and other processing systems in stores and banks. It was common there was cash, cheques and other "interesting" things everywhere. You had to learn to just know that none of it was yours, and fully hands-off, and if not, welcome to unemployment and probably jail etc. So the bag in this vid: no matter whats inside, if your job was to carry it somewhere intact, it could have been made of paper and it would be as secure. Because the rule is about hands-off.
You are right. A lot of people making comments do not know the purpose of this type of bag. All they think about is how to get into the bag. It's made to carry your cash. Why would you want to steal your cash?
Is it actually good security to have "SEVEN PIN TUMBLER" right next to the lock? Isn't that just giving any potential picker a clue as to what they're in for?
If the lock was good, then it won't matter whether you tell people what kind it is. Security through obscurity is so weak it's essentially irrelevant.
I like how it even says "Seven Pin Tumbler" right on the lock.
We use one of these at work at both of the locations I work at. We have these "games of skill" machines (think: digital slot machines), and this bag (or one very similar to it, same kind of lock) is placed in a locked cabinet behind the counter, and the bag contains payout money and payout slips for those GoS machines. To get to this bag, a customer (or unauthorized employee) would have to 1). get behind the counter, 2). somehow open the cabinet at one location, or a drop safe at the other location, 3). get the bag out, 4). cut or pick the lock, to get to the contents. All of this would be recorded on camera. The bag, while not too terribly difficult to defeat, does its job amazingly well. No unauthorized persons have ever touched it, because everybody knows they're on camera, and the only ones authorized to open the bag are managers or the boss, and they are the only ones who have a key to the bag. Also, of note, the bag is designed in such a way that you cannot remove the key while the lock is open. I would liked to have seen LPL take the lock apart to show us how that works.
The fact the this man has made a career out of opening locks is insane
I think you might have missed the part where he is a LAWYER.
Today I would like to tell you guys, that for the first time in my life watching youtube videos has helped me so much in real life. My friend lost his key to front doors. Luckily it was a second lock in his doors that he doesnt usually lock. But the owner of the home forbid him to remove the lock with missing key by the force and so i went there with my fun package biught from amazon with some picks in it and i managed to open and remove the lock from the doors. Incredible feeling, only by watching LPL you can learn alot!!
I suspect the reason banks are moving to plastic with adhesive closures has less to do with the fear of competent pickers and more to do with _cheapness._
On what basis? if someone wants something open badly enough, it WILL eventually be opened, so instead of spending more and more to keep things unreliably in, it’d be more efficient to know if and when something was taken out. Cost effectiveness isn’t necessarily being cheap and having a less beefy lock doesn’t automatically make it less secure said, as LPL that isn’t really their job
This bag is similar to the bags they use at my hospital for transporting controlled drugs. They don't need keys, but they have a zip which when unzipped cracks in half a plastic tab, that has a code on it, which is 'ubique' and also printed on the paper work. Technically it's super easy to open, but it's reusable (only needing the plastic tabs replaced each time) and you can't put it back together after opening, since the tab is now in two pieces. Cool to see they used to do a similar thing with money at banks.
Nice one as always, definitely just meant as a "short term buffer" for staff to go from point a to b and drop it at the bank or vice versa.
I do have to say as well, got a set of the Genesis picks, and they're awesome-- but I've noticed the thin short pick can be bent really easily (including straight backwards when trying to set binding pins, not just side to side) and it's difficult to get it formed back to a usable straightness-- I've gotten it formed back straight (mostly), but the metal just seems a little too soft/ flexible on the really thin pick.
Obviously developing picking skills will further garner the necessary pressure and touch tactility application (I can open generic/ widespread use locks fairly quickly), just something I wanted to point out, new users/ pickers need to be very careful as not to bend/ warp the thinner picks.
The lock itself tells you how many pins there are. This is to help the inexperienced.
Nice catch!
Thanks for the video. Merry Christmas LPL and family.
We still use these bags at my work for sending money or other high value items through our internal mail between office buildings. They are a bit like bicycle padlocks: designed to keep people honest, not to prevent outright theft.
Certain places still use these as in store/department money drops and transfers. Using the plastic bags for deposits to the bank.
The world of locks translated in IT terms would mean every sysadmin and some more guys would have the password to every server on the planet.
Yeah, sounds bout right. Also, more "hackers", lots more, because you can skin a cat in more ways than one in the lock world.
P@$$...
@@Romanicsm OMG how did you know my password?!
Master lock in the IT world, would be the guy that feels clever for making his password 4321 instead of 1234
@@Luminousplayer
Nah, Master Lock has a strong password for the user account, but the root account has "admin" as both username and password.
Still have a few of the old bags the banks used to give, which are cloth with a logo printed on them. They make nice small bags for things, but, as they do not have any method to close them, are not secure at all. The plastic bags now are tamper evident, as they normally come with a serialised cable tie you use to close it, or some come with a plastic zipper than has a numbered tag you use to seal the zip, the number written down on the deposit book inside the bag. Used with a night deposit ATM, though most banks now have gone away from that to using cash accepting ATM in the lobbies, where you do not even need a card to deposit into the account. Bit of a pain though, as you will find at 6PM that all these machines will no longer accept cash, as they have all received the business deposits from the local shops.
Go there 7AM and you can deposit again, as they will have had enough cash withdrawn during the evening. You often see a person going from one to the other, depositing 500 notes at a time, till all are full, and they have to go to the next bank centre to carry on.
Also, cash deposit ATMs don't provide detection of embezzlement by the last shift in the shop, unlike sealed bags that are tied to the customer account and are opened on CCTV by bank tellers.
These types of bags are used for classified documents in the US Govt. The whole idea is that the courier leaves his location and performs a non-stop transport of the bag. Obviously a knife into the bag would warrent inquiry from a competent watchstander. It's still a little disappointing to see the lock itself picked in under a minute by a skilled lock-picker.
I was surprised when it went to 5 pins, but 6 and 7 made me think that somebody at least tried to make it better than a drawstring sack and a handshake.
LPL: A very Merry Christmas from me and mine to you and yours. Here’s hoping 2022 is a better year than the current. (I can dream, can’t I?)
We all can lpl
Yeah the store I worked for always used the Plastic use once tamper bags. There truly was no reopening those bags once the seal was made short of a knife or scissors. So from a tamper perspective a lot more useful than a cloth bag. Though from an environment standpoint, I prefer the canvis bag. As all of the time we would always take the bag in ourselves and it would be obvious who stole what as we also logged the event. So could have used any bag for this as the tamper proof part was sort of moot.
OMG... as someone who has worked in the Armored car industry for years... seeing the thumbnail for this gave me a touch of PTSD.
UA-cam channel, Sir, is addicting. Very interesting and educational, I think so.
MMF has a different meaning in this context than I'm used to.
At my job, about 10 years ago we switched to plastic bags. Imo much more "secure" in that in you try to peal the adhesive it leaves a big warning that says someone tried to do so, and cutting it just leaves evidence of cutting.
There no way to open bag without evidence of tamper
2 minute video, you already know its gonna be a banger
When I turned 18 my mom left me and my older brother the apartment we lived in and she got her own, I set up a very basic alarm for my room (I used a code to shut off) my brother laughed because he didn't understand that even if it didn't alert police it would still show that he had gone in.
"yeah, so I went into your room. Wadda ya gonna do about it, punk?"
@@LeifNelandDk 😂😂😂 my brother wouldn't be stupid enough to get into my shit because he knows I'm crazy and I have lots of things that can really hurt him. The alarm was more to help him understand that he could never get away with getting in my shit
@@LeifNelandDk like the bag in the video the alarm delivered my brother from any temptation be may of had of getting into my shit
The only time I used these was to make bank deposit drops for the retail store I managed. Still, it felt better carrying the money in the bag than in an envelope.
Nice work LPL. I still find it funny how many similar bags are sold as "slash proof". I like tamper evident much better
"Moving to tamper evident plastic bags"... that was certainly the case when I last worked at a bank... 30 years ago. I'm surprised someone found the bag you had at this point.
Finally, a lock picked in it's natural element😁
As a school job I was a bellhop (and later a night auditor) at a hotel. I used to deliver these from the accounting office of the hotel to the bank down the street. (Picking them never crossed my mind.)
I worked with bags similar to this but instead of a lock it had a metal hole where you put a numbered plastic seal holding the zipper.
If the seal is broken or replaced the recipient can notice the damage or note that the number does not match what was expected. Even if the seal gets replaced with one with falsified number, you would need time to replicate the correct number and maybe that wasn't feasible on time for deliver. I think is less complicated than a lock and in most cases would better expose the tampering.
LPL, banks supplied those bags to merchants for their daily or weekly deposits. Sometimes they were intended to be dropped in the night deposit slot at the bank, other times a armored truck would pick them up, depending on the neighborhood or risk aversion.
Most of the time, cash wasn't in the bag, but checks, however today, with the ability to photograph or scan a check, it's no longer required to send checks to the federal reserve bank for processing.
Today, the cloth bags with locks are mostly used by fast food restaurants, one of the few places that still deal in cash.
Literally everywhere deals in cash are you insane?
And idk where you’re getting the idea businesses picture deposit checks. I have yet to come across 1 business I’ve worked for that has ever picture deposited a check🤦♀️it’s always placed in a deposit bag and taken to a physical branch
@@isiahaf1359
Maybe Walmart? Present a check, check gets scanned for routing number, account number, amount and signature, then returned to you.
The scanning lowers fraud and bounced checks and they get their money ASAP instead of the following day of a paper check being deposited.
As a side, when a business deposits more than $7500, they fall into the same IRS reporting. Small instant transactions don’t trigger the reporting.
We have several of these bags. The zippers fail on them or the keys bend and break off in the key holes much more commonly than people losing the keys. I’ve always wondered if these were pickable since you can literally cut these up with a pair of fiskars scissors probably faster than picking them to gain access to the contents inside.
this guy gets closer and closer to "bank safe/lockbox picked ($20.000)" every day
When you said banks were going to start having plastic bags, my mind instantly went to Ziplock bags..
My church has been using tamper-evident plastic bags for offerings for many years. They have an adhesive strip on the closure flap, covered with release paper. The adhesive is extremely aggressive and once the flap has been glued shut, the only way of opening the bag is to cut it. The plastic is so tough that ripping it open would be difficult, even for a strong person.
Even the house of god doesnt trust anyone whenever money is involved . Lmao
In God we trust, all others pay cash.
As LPL said, these bags’ only purpose is to show evidence of tampering. The difficulty of tearing open the bags is absolutely moot.
@@mohdnazimrosli8535 - Sad, isn't it?
@@johnnyjohnson6643 he's pointing out that , the church doesnt trust anyone handling the donation money , a thief could easily taken the bag away n cut it open later at his house or something .. having a tough bag/lock just means that someone inside the church has been stealing , so a proper measure has to be taken.. which is sad since it happens in the house of god.
I just started watching your videos about 3 weeks ago. I also listened to your keynote presentation at SaintCon, which I enjoyed very much. I do have a quick question for you. Have you ever considered designing your own padlock, thus eliminating all of the known weaknesses that you routinely exploit? Have you been approached by or considered partnering with an established lock manufacturer? It seems to me you could revolutionize the lock industry for the betterment of all. Just a thought. Thank you.
Best MMF video I have ever seen
Can we as a community, locksport, just admit that we really miss Bill‘s videos
Agreed. Was half hoping he'ld surface for a holiday hello.
My girlfriend works at a bank and the bags they use now are clear plastic with an integrated zip tie type closure and they have 12 digit ID numbers on them
Had those plastic bags down here for well over 10 years, though the last near 2 years most payments have been card due to one certain virus
Most of these type of things are to keep an honest person honest.
I'd imagine you could also attack the zipper directly by pushing a pen or something through it. It would be pretty evident that someone had tampered with it, but it would be non-destructive, and someone would have plausible deniability that it was a faulty zipper.
Thanks LPL
I'm still looking forward to se you pick the Yale Doorman Digital door lock system!
My Dad used to say, "A locked door only keeps out an honest man."
I guess that old adage extends to bags as well.
A lot of retailers use these to dispense employees register cash.
This seems to be in the same family as evidence bags, where you want to be sure you know that that the bag hasn't been tampered with in transit, all the while facilitating opening and re-closure with accountability.
Would love to see you go into a vault and pick all of the safety deposit boxes
Fascinating
They really need to upgrade the security on these things.
They are certainly a good basic measure, but the poor security on that lock is surprising.
30 years ago, I opened a similar type of bank bag (swing arm rather than pop up arm) with a paperclip.
This the first time I heard the clicking of the pins. Nice to know I'm not deaf.
Great explanations. Thanks LPL
A bank bag was the first lock that I ever picked. I didn’t have any lock picking tools, I just used a flattened end of a paper clip.
Wow, I used this exact bag for my piggy bank coins and allowance money, when I was a kid. Same color and everything. Small world
You, sir, have a nice day as well.
As someone who has worked with tamper evident bags and tags these aren't used anymore. A normal bag secured with a tamper evident serial numbered tag is what's used. And a secure courier.
These things are sick. I’ve picked a couple of them. They are just a cool novelty.
the plastic bag with sticky close, almost always have a bit of a gap unless you close them in a way that isn't on the instructions. If you just fold over, there is a gap on the corners.
THAT was very interesting!
In my experience, the biggest vulnerability with these bank bags (or even the new, wasteful, single-use plastic ones) is the human factor.
Your employee could fudge your books and skim before assembling the deposit.
Your employee could be dumb and always make the deposit at the same time of day, and carry the bag in plain view to show nefarious people that they have a big amount of money they likely won't fight for. (Unless they own the store)
Or your employee could be MONUMENTALLY dumb and fall for the scam I heard about where someone put a sign on the night drop "Out of order, please use bucket below".
The protection against that is to detect fudging the books or deposit amount reported by bank not matching the (not fudged) books. One remaining trick is to lie about getting mugged on the way to the bank.
This has been tampered with and the tampering is evident. Such a droll understatement,
Thanks for the tutorial🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏🙏
They can make money off of those plastic bags, they priced them to us at 20 cents each, but they're about 10 cents or less online. But we have stuck with these since they don't cost us anything.
used disposable, tamper-evident plastic deposit bags with an adhesive seal back in 1992 (30 years ago - yikes!) when I worked in a mall in Canada. Perhaps some banks have a slow adoption?
Happy Holidays