This was broadcast in 1997???This is very well done and extremely insightful! Thank you BBC..you were ahead of the curve. The participants are very vivid and forthcoming.....this is great history. I lived in Detroit, Mich and across the river was Ontario Canada...channel 9! And we had BBC,,,yet I never saw this bit of information.....again...Thanks BBC.
Yes, I live in the Port Huron area on the river across from Sarnia, Ontario. We got CBC not BBC but I don't really recall many documentaries. I was in high school in 1997 and in my small school I wasn't aware of anyone being out and gay. There was one guy I thought was likely gay but thought nothing else of it at the time. It wasn't a gossip topic. It only occurs to me now how it still would have been hard for him to not be out and that dating must have either been non-existent with girls and no idea about with guys. He had a lot of female friends but I'm pretty sure he also had male friends. It was just not something we talked about or even gossiped about. I don't know if it was different at larger schools at the time but it definitely wasn't open at my school. That was my heterosexual perspective but I imagine any gay students would have a different remembrance of their experience.
Man scary days back then. I remember all of these feelings in the 70's 80's and even the 90's. Young gay people today have no idea what it was like for us back in those days. They get to enjoy freedom because of us older gays.
I love the fact two of my three kids came out in their teens....I was in my 30's even though I had always known I was different....From being around three!
True, though we do face a lot of discrimination today but the older gay generation really lit the torch for us. I wanna carry the torch so the future is brighter for LGBT kids and things continue to get better
Her talking about how they kept forgetting to smoke like a man or sit like a man is hilarious ❤ I was told by a police woman that I would end up dead in the gutter if I didn’t change my “ways”.
further to one of my points in my comment on Part 1 of this series, re: milieu.... the overall social background of this chapter is quite quite different.... result of a widening of the media-focus contemporary to the respective eras I wonder. 50's ~ 60's a much wider socio-economic 'cachment area' for the Meeja perhaps? thank you again ppotter.
Very insightful and also so extremley sad that people were treat like this for being themselves 😣 thank god that i wasnt born during this time. Im fully gay and am proud to be me 😃
It is quite fortunate that I had not lived during this time, for if I had been fired, harassed by the police, jailed or suffered any other similar indignities, I believe I would have become the character of the cruel policeman, Javert, In Les Miserables and would have hounded the individuals and institutions by slapping them with lawsuits until the day I died. In short, I would have become their worst nightmare for the slightest infraction against my liberty. It's a shame more people did not take this course of action in both Great Britain and America. If we had, heterosexuals would quickly learn to never fuck with a queen. Having said that, however, I am thankful to those who preceded me who fought and resisted against ignorance and stupidity.
Zoltan Korda wow you must be young,Before the 70s you would've been shunned by the people closest to you,you would've been on your owtn,and you wouldn't have the chance to be a gay warrior, it took a long time and the liberal 60s to free up conservative attitudes,you couldn't understand the real threat of violence physically.im an old heterosexual but with gay friends and family, and i remember the palpable stench off fear.ask about this with some of your older peers if you know any.like your sentiment though.
....but there wouldn't have been legal recourse for your professed urge to wreak "nightmare" on the powers that be..... and if you were high-profile you'd probably end up in jail anyway....
If you have that kind of fire in you now, there are plenty of injustices and cruelties being perpetrated that need people with the capabilities to stand in the way of the abuse.
Police only do what the majority of society deem permissible. And society does what the churches say is permissible. The churches say what those who tithe most say is permissible and those who tithe most go with whatever is most profitable. Times haven’t changed and neither has bigotry and it’s resulting abuses. There’s just money to be made and new sequined gods to be worshipped. It isn’t true freedom nor acceptance, it’s curiosity and entertainment. People can do the darkest things imaginable but if the masses find it entertaining, it becomes mainstream. Gangsters or gays, doesn’t matter. The masses don’t look any deeper than the shiny veneer of those things because so few look beneath the shiny veneer of who they themselves are. No one is truly valued for who they are whether they’re living in truth or not because everyone is living a lie on some level or another. We’re all miserable. So we use morals and brutal humans like police to make us feel superior. Normal. When that’s the last thing any of us should ever want to be labeled. We’re a mess. An absolute disaster of a civilization built on lies, control, ignorance and fear. The mentality hasn’t changed, only the targets.
An excellent film, but highly misleading at 44:45. Homosexual sex was decriminalised in 1967, but only in part of the UK: England and Wales. It remained a criminal offence in Scotland until 1980 and in Northern Ireland until 1982.
Yes, I recall going with someone for sex just to be able to chat afterwards to pick his brain regarding local spots and making contact with others. We did what we had to do, where we could.
I can’t fathom a world where you’re branded a criminal for being who you are. If I were alive at any other era, I think it would be suffocating. A facade of a marriage, some kids, many affairs. Or an arrest, estrangement from family…to conform and live as what you’re expected to be, or to live as yourself and risk imprisonment. It’s difficult to fathom.
@@brandonmartin-moore5302 I Googled her after I watched this documentary. It turns out that she was a German refugee who settled in Britain, married a Brit, and had two children.
I didn’t post this personally but I was the producer of this series and I thank you all for the comments.
I did post it, and enjoyed the series greatly back in the day, so thanks.
I spotted some long lost relatives on this film , and long departed, its great seeing them looking so happy laughing at the party..
That's lovely to hear!
This was broadcast in 1997???This is very well done and extremely insightful! Thank you BBC..you were ahead of the curve. The participants are very vivid and forthcoming.....this is great history. I lived in Detroit, Mich and across the river was Ontario Canada...channel 9! And we had BBC,,,yet I never saw this bit of information.....again...Thanks BBC.
This is BBC, as in British... are you thinking CBC?
Yes, I live in the Port Huron area on the river across from Sarnia, Ontario. We got CBC not BBC but I don't really recall many documentaries. I was in high school in 1997 and in my small school I wasn't aware of anyone being out and gay. There was one guy I thought was likely gay but thought nothing else of it at the time. It wasn't a gossip topic. It only occurs to me now how it still would have been hard for him to not be out and that dating must have either been non-existent with girls and no idea about with guys. He had a lot of female friends but I'm pretty sure he also had male friends. It was just not something we talked about or even gossiped about. I don't know if it was different at larger schools at the time but it definitely wasn't open at my school. That was my heterosexual perspective but I imagine any gay students would have a different remembrance of their experience.
@@ppotter Yes, he was.
@@marniekilbourne608 indeedy. I just hope things are better for kids now.
An invaluable document of our history - fascinating, touching, funny and nostalgic. Many thanks!
Man scary days back then. I remember all of these feelings in the 70's 80's and even the 90's. Young gay people today have no idea what it was like for us back in those days. They get to enjoy freedom because of us older gays.
I love the fact two of my three kids came out in their teens....I was in my 30's even though I had always known I was different....From being around three!
True, though we do face a lot of discrimination today but the older gay generation really lit the torch for us. I wanna carry the torch so the future is brighter for LGBT kids and things continue to get better
Her talking about how they kept forgetting to smoke like a man or sit like a man is hilarious ❤
I was told by a police woman that I would end up dead in the gutter if I didn’t change my “ways”.
Omgggg thank you so much for this vid! It really was very insightful
This was great...very interesting....thank you
such important history! Thanks for posting!
Lovely hearing these stories,,thanks
further to one of my points in my comment on Part 1 of this series, re: milieu.... the overall social background of this chapter is quite quite different.... result of a widening of the media-focus contemporary to the respective eras I wonder. 50's ~ 60's a much wider socio-economic 'cachment area' for the Meeja perhaps? thank you again ppotter.
Minor point regarding an excellent programme; Lord Montagu was imprisoned in 1954 (not 1953 as cited in the programme at 3:50)
It is amazing to see what a repressive country GB was. Scandinavia, Germany and France were not like that I think
Germany was open till the thirties. Then it was a nightmare
Love Jose Pickering stories- and that northern accent! Where is she now?
FYI: May I recommend a book called “Street Kid: A Rent Boy’s Tale” by Ned Williams? There is a ‘Home page’ on Weebly, if you care to look it up.
I love Fred, what a lad.
The Lady at 17:50 is FABULOUS! What a beautiful character she is.
Very insightful and also so extremley sad that people were treat like this for being themselves 😣 thank god that i wasnt born during this time. Im fully gay and am proud to be me 😃
it’s 1997 , now I want to believe there must be something better
It is quite fortunate that I had not lived during this time, for if I had been fired, harassed by the police, jailed or suffered any other similar indignities, I believe I would have become the character of the cruel policeman, Javert, In Les Miserables and would have hounded the individuals and institutions by slapping them with lawsuits until the day I died. In short, I would have become their worst nightmare for the slightest infraction against my liberty. It's a shame more people did not take this course of action in both Great Britain and America. If we had, heterosexuals would quickly learn to never fuck with a queen. Having said that, however, I am thankful to those who preceded me who fought and resisted against ignorance and stupidity.
Zoltan Korda wow you must be young,Before the 70s you would've been shunned by the people closest to you,you would've been on your owtn,and you wouldn't have the chance to be a gay warrior, it took a long time and the liberal 60s to free up conservative attitudes,you couldn't understand the real threat of violence physically.im an old heterosexual but with gay friends and family, and i remember the palpable stench off fear.ask about this with some of your older peers if you know any.like your sentiment though.
....but there wouldn't have been legal recourse for your professed urge to wreak "nightmare" on the powers that be..... and if you were high-profile you'd probably end up in jail anyway....
If you have that kind of fire in you now, there are plenty of injustices and cruelties being perpetrated that need people with the capabilities to stand in the way of the abuse.
What a strange comment.
this angers me beyond belief. the things society and law enforcement got away with AND still get away with is disturbing.
Police only do what the majority of society deem permissible. And society does what the churches say is permissible. The churches say what those who tithe most say is permissible and those who tithe most go with whatever is most profitable.
Times haven’t changed and neither has bigotry and it’s resulting abuses. There’s just money to be made and new sequined gods to be worshipped. It isn’t true freedom nor acceptance, it’s curiosity and entertainment. People can do the darkest things imaginable but if the masses find it entertaining, it becomes mainstream. Gangsters or gays, doesn’t matter. The masses don’t look any deeper than the shiny veneer of those things because so few look beneath the shiny veneer of who they themselves are. No one is truly valued for who they are whether they’re living in truth or not because everyone is living a lie on some level or another. We’re all miserable. So we use morals and brutal humans like police to make us feel superior. Normal. When that’s the last thing any of us should ever want to be labeled. We’re a mess. An absolute disaster of a civilization built on lies, control, ignorance and fear. The mentality hasn’t changed, only the targets.
@@i50519 unfortunately they still do sting operations on gays like its the 1950's.
@@sxnico I beg your pardon? You mean, currently? Where, please? I sincerely wasn’t aware!
When I was a child, i remember the old bill, a lot of them bent coppers were really sick.
David (the civil servant) and Fred (the miner) are my type of men as a gay man. Real hunks of men.
I love 'em all. But Fred was adorable.
Yes he was brilliant.
Its shocking knowing that this was actually happening... They could never be free exploring their desires
Attitudes totally changed after Burgess and McLean.
Homosexuality has been around since the beginning of time, who and when was it decided to be wrong... SMH
An excellent film, but highly misleading at 44:45. Homosexual sex was decriminalised in 1967, but only in part of the UK: England and Wales. It remained a criminal offence in Scotland until 1980 and in Northern Ireland until 1982.
Indeed.
Yes, I recall going with someone for sex just to be able to chat afterwards to pick his brain regarding local spots and making contact with others.
We did what we had to do, where we could.
I can’t fathom a world where you’re branded a criminal for being who you are. If I were alive at any other era, I think it would be suffocating. A facade of a marriage, some kids, many affairs. Or an arrest, estrangement from family…to conform and live as what you’re expected to be, or to live as yourself and risk imprisonment. It’s difficult to fathom.
We're lucky, though I doubt the majority who live in the muslim world, and great chunks of Africa can say the same.
Shocking how things used to be so recently
What kind of accent does Sharley McLean have? She sounds kind of German, but her name isn't German.
I was trying to figure it out to, I thought it might be Dutch.
@@brandonmartin-moore5302 I Googled her after I watched this documentary. It turns out that she was a German refugee who settled in Britain, married a Brit, and had two children.
Man it was rough being straight; so I can't imagine it as a gay individual.
Rip Fred