i tried kissing a homie after a head injury, just like the jock, sadly the dna evidence led to a 1st degree murder conviction. currently typing this as they strap me in for the lethal injection.
the random bystander at 8:01 is truly the best character. he shows up, gets hit with a basketball, gets angry, punches the jock, and never shows up again.
Wait till he finds out that not only does the creator do rule 34 of their own webtoon, but THAT'S where you find the characters actually names. Like their real names.
I think there is a connection between its popularity and the backlash. An unpopular bad thing induces no rage because nobody is giving it attention. But when a lot of people are lavishing time, attention and fan adoration on something bad, it makes people angry because they're giving those things to something undeserving. For instance: If Twilight had just been a mid-level teen vampire romance that was mildly popular with tweens but never hit the bestseller lists, I don't think people would have devoted as much time and energy to hating it.
Absolutely true. It evokes a sense of unfairness and makes people want to rectify or balance it out. One way to balance out praise is, of course, ridicule.
@@corenlavolpe6143 it's funny how those same people giving the hate attention to the very thing they find undeserving of that attention are the very ones giving it all that attention. Well, the extra attention at least. When instead they could have took that energy and supported the art that they do think is well deserved of the attention and support. I swear, people will rally behind something they hate before they rally behind something they love. They are kind of bright. It is unfair. But they're not one to talk when they're not the ones willing to give what they find deserving the fair treatment. Not enough self-awareness to realize they're basically part of the problem. The best thing to do with trash that doesn't deserve the attention is to not give it in the first place. Let it go back to the dumpster where it belongs. This should be common sense. Like with paid products we vote with our wallets, with free items we should vote with our attention or lack there of. What compels people to go against what should be common sense? Screw cocaine, rage is a hell of a drug.
Yeah, and no hate to eboys if they accept it and admit they’re store-bought and in it mostly for the aesthetic, but he’s literally named goth! As an alt, it infuriates me to see another alt call themself a subculture they aren’t.
I think the reason why this had such a strong backlash was because for a wile webtoons pushed a lot of adds involving this “comic” especially on UA-cam and a few of them you couldn’t skip so the constant exposure just annoyed everyone. As the saying goes “if you poke the tiger enough it’s going to bite you”.
Thank you so much! I feel like a lot of people in these discussions don’t really get that, the people who don’t understand why there’s an outrage about it. There’s an outrage about it because it’s forced down anybody’s throw to even showed the UA-cam algorithm any crumb of an amount of interest in anime and comics, so then they shut this in our face for like months on end, and it was like 98% of the advertising when surfing UA-cam
@@otakumangastudios3617 it was all I got for a week straight no joke. I had to quit watching UA-cam videos for a good wile just to purge my brain of the add it was practically burned into to back of my eyes.
@@dizzyizzy7403 exactly! I wish these people actually understood why people were in raged. It’s not the same as a lot of other things people got mad about, although now I’m sharing understand maybe why other people are mad about things like high garden space. People said “oh they’re just not open minded to other things “or “why can’t they just be OK with other people having different preferences? “The thing is, from what I do know, the people who were complaining about it were people who watched anime frequently, most likely from the most popular anime site, Crunchyroll. I barely use Crunchyroll if at all, but I know they have ruthless anime ads, especially if you don’t have a membership with them. Maybe for a while just like with the boyfriend‘s ads on UA-cam, it was the exact same case on Crunchyroll with high Guardian spice. Perhaps people just so constantly got bombarded with contact related to it when they’re just trying to watch attack on Titan, they eventually got in raged because they just couldn’t take it anymore. I know I personally considered to make a video about boyfriends because of how many times I got the ads, but I was so afraid to come off as “not politically correct “because “oh you just don’t like that they’re gay and polyamorous! It’s gay acceptance! “And then I became very relieved to see that the LGBT community on UA-cam also were in distain of this comic for the most part. There were some that said “it’s just fluff get over it! “But thankfully most had a brain and said that it felt very uncomfortable for them because it reinforces a lot of homophobic stereotypes, even though it’s written by someone who is LGBT. Goes to prove that you could be prejudice no matter what group you are from
The (un)funniest fact about those animations is that I remember someone saying the animation of the adds were actually fan animations that the horrible Webtoon marketing team allegedly used without the consent of the people who did both the animation and the voice acting.
That's exactly what it is. And it pisses me off because it makes the entire genre of BL seem like soulless weeaboo trash to outsiders when I'm over here trying to write legit stories about Victorian men going on airship adventures and naturally falling in love with each other instead of having it thrust on them like a stupid deus ex machina and reading good comics and stories that balance emphasizing male sexuality and telling a good story. M/M fiction can and does have just as much variety as straight fiction, but only the uwu kawaii weeb stuff gets any attention so people will think that's literally ALL M/M fiction
@@therealopaartist me too, i found it by accident read a couple chapters and never read it again 🤷🏾♀️ it was pretty forgettable but not something worth getting THAT upset over.
@@therealopaartist same. Then I learned the author is fucking weird. I don’t care about the shallowness of the comic because a lot of comics do that even in the hetero romances. I just don’t want to support the author.
same, i picked it up once and i gotta say, if you turn your brain off it's a pretty enjoyable read. is it good by any means? no. does it have anything of a plot? no. but if you just wanna turn your brain off and look at cute stuff then i'd say try it.
i would love a piss take kinda comic where the characters are legally named after stereotypical high school tropes, like Goth, except they dont share any traits with their trope. cause irl naming a kid Goth hss no bearing on them becoming a goth.
I created a lesbian couple in my head; Karen and Kimberly, and they're a Karen and a Kimberly. But with a twist: Karen is a Kimberly and Kimberly is a Karen.
“Here’s my driver license…” Cop: [in tears] … how could they name you DEATH METALHEAD???” “I sounded like a Tasmanian Devil as a baby. I have the video, but I’ll spare your ears.” Cop:….please? “Okay… But You can’t arrest me.” XD
And for why it's popular? Because it's ship fuel. Shippers do not give a shit about genuine characters, just archetype dynamics. This author gave these relationship fetishists the perfect story with empty husks to play with. They couldn't ask for anything better.
@@naganut9718 that fandom also happens to have the most war hungry shippers. This webcomic has Polyamory involved. That shit is a shipper's dream. That essentially means they can go as batshit insane with their ships as they want.
@@sippycupdoll that fandom has the most advertising shippers. Holy shit, these people abuse hashtags just to promote their preferred idols and get them trending beyond belief. If a hashtag gets trending, you better believe it's because kpop fans had a war in it.
it legit didn't even click with me when i saw the "thanks for reading!" panel that the little character was the author's persona - i just immediately assumed that they were using the nerd character as the mascot for the comic or somethin
fun fact: they do actually have names,it's just that the creator decided to not use them for the comic for them to be blank slates to project yourselves into which might explain their lack of depth. here they are btw goth - felix nerd - adrian prep - vincent jock - kevin also they're all asian of different nationalities too: goth - chinese nerd - japanese prep - singaporean jock - vietnamese
@@EC0191 No but how? Genuinely. Webtoon has strict guidelines (ones that annoy me but still) and if those comics were breaking those guidelines but Boyfriends isn't, then its not a double standard for them to be censored over boyfriends.
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THE SLICE OF LIFE GENRE AS BEING DIFFICULT. I'm a fanfic author and, as of the past several years, my main go-to has been slice of life. I'm lucky in that characters are my _strength_ in writing, so the stories often kind of write themselves. I don't really plan things out other than having a _very_ basic idea of the scene ("Characters X, Y, Z have breakfast"). I have to let my characters fill it in from there since I can't really control them. SOL as a genre can be incredibly rewarding to write when done correctly. I currently have a 173,000 word story that covers about a month in universe, though most of that time is dedicated only to roughly a week and a half. There are some timeskips in there. In Chapter 5 of Part 1 of the duology, my FMC (Female Main Character) just had a man try to break into her apartment. As such, she's completely freaked out and has been raised in a society to believe that men are nothing but beasts that will take advantage of women. She was so terrified she literally could not move. However, my MMC (Male Main Character) had to get her over to the couch. After some coaxing from her best friend, she allowed MMC to pick her up and take her over to the couch. Fast forward over 40 chapters later and into Part 2 of the duology. She actually has trust in MMC to some degree. It is _incredibly_ fragile and she doesn't trust him entirely. But MMC had just calmed her down from a near panic attack. He offered her a hug. He didn't do anything other than open his arms to her. It was entirely on her if she took it or not. And she _chose_ to move closer to him for comfort. SOL can be an incredibly rewarding genre to write when done correctly. When I write it, you see literally _almost every step_ of the relationship as it develops. Writing out those steps in the tiny, incremental way I do is incredibly fun and so rewarding to see. What I described above took me literally 2.5 _in real life years_ to achieve. SOL takes a _lot_ of time to do. Obviously, if you're writing a 12-episode anime, you have more leeway with timeskips and stuff since you only have so much screentime. But in a setting like webcomics or fanfics, if you want it to be a slowburn, you _have_ to understand what you're doing with the characters. But SOL is _NOT_ easy. You absolutely _MUST_ understand your characters to an _EXTREME_ degree. You have to understand their general trajectory and potential routes they can take. It is _not_ easy to understand characters to the _extreme_ depth needed to write SOL fics and/or webcomics especially if it falls into a slowburn style like how I write. It takes a _very_ long time of working with the characters to understand them so well.
I agree. I'm making something like that since last year and I haven't even started the story. I'm still making the characters (who are many btw), there are some of them that I'm not sastified about at the moment. Even so, I've been having a lot of fun making them. Sometimes I imagine what they're doing right now or how they would afront something and many other things.
Hey ya, i know this is out of context but can you give me the link of your fan fiction? I genuinely interested to reading it. Sorry if i had some grammar mistakr in my comment.
I genuinely want to thank you for this comment. I want to write SoL because I like playing on character dynamic, but the "plotless" thingy makes me scared to do it. Nonetheless, I still really flesh out my MCs
I feel like this is a comic for people who just want to read straight fluff not too heavy on plot or development, just simple romance scenarios revolving around the cast i don't even think that's necessarily a bad thing
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad I feel like..people are allowed to like media that has some stereotypes, like total drama island for example. That show is festered with stereotypes because that's the point. No one has to take it too seriously.
As a person who did cringey yaoi roleplays as a teen, I feel so exposed lolol. In all seriousness, your analysis made me realize that it wasn’t the slice of life genre that I didn’t enjoy, it was that as you said, people use it as an excuse to not try. When I think about it, a lot of my favorite parts of shounen anime are the slice of life bits in between the arcs, and my favorite tv show is also a slice of life. It’s just that most slice of life media just think that throwing enough *quirky* characters at you can overshadow their garbage plots. It can’t.
I roleplayed in a roblox game with another dude and some people that joined us from time to time when i was like 12, we were almost boyfriends in the rp but more like friends, just doing casual stuff and some drama here and there, was pretty fun but i didnt friend the dude so i never saw him again
Honestly this comic is peak Webtoons. Boring one note stock characters, nonexistent plot, and barely concealed sexual fetishes/fantasies really are par for the course and to be expected at this point. But that’s kinda also what most of the people who regularly browse webtoons go there for anyway (either to make fun of or legitimate enjoy reading) so it makes sense the comic is popular/Infamous.
This is not really peak wepton's or what weapons is really all about if you remember back when wintons was starting off they did a lot of action series 2 like God of high school tower of God heck even stuff like boxer maybe you should expand a little bit more
I stay away from most Webtoons but there are some really good ones, like Everything Is Fine, Sweet Home and Not Even Bones. It seems like the worst ones are always the popular ones lol
finnaly, an actually sane person reviewing boyfriends its skocking how many tweens read this comic and hate it so much they start callling it shit like anti-semedic and racist just so they have an excuse to obbsesivly hate it lmao
They legit DUG A 9 YEAR OLD TWEET(When the author was like FUCKING 13 AND BARELY understood English) of them saying the N word just because they wanted people to hate him more
I read the whole thing with my roommates one night and honestly? I'm pretty neutral about it. It has it's good moments but it's also plagued with cringe dialouge and weird...it's just weird. I'm a bi trans dude and I wasn't offended or whatever about it. It's alright, idk lol.
I have to agree with you, Slice of Life content lives or dies by their characters and their relationship dynamics. If they exist solely for fetishy crap, your SoL will become a pile of crap. This wasn't the main problem of Boyfriends, but holy shit it definitely adds to it.
what do a prep, a goth, a nerd, and a jock have in common. nothing...except fanfic writers love pairing them together and pretending the relationship can work when they have wildly different personalities and hobbies.
People don't have to have stuff in common for something to work. They can be interested in their own things, and still be open to explore new things with their spouses. And it's clear they do have things in common, the jock and the nerd both love a girl band, and bond over learning their choreograph or listening to their music. The prep and the jock also love fashion, and clothing, particularly shoes. The prep and goth play video games together. Do you know why ? Because characters are more than just their archetype, a jock can be interested in more than just sport, a goth, more than just dark clothing. They're people, the are just what the author call them. The relationship between them do work, it's not always realistic, but it's fun.
I think they work better as a FREAKING WEIRD friend group...because you don't have the added pressure of being in a relationship with weirdos that you barely have anything in common with.
I'm sorry but even though I'm not defending this comic, this comment is still a pretty bad take. My own boyfriend and I only have a handful of interests in common, but it's the few ones we DO have in common that we bond over and has kept our relationship pretty decently strong for over two almost three years by now at this point. Opposites attract is a popular trope in fanfiction for a reason- it's interesting trying to see how the characters still try to work with each other anyways and finding out what they DO have in common. It doesn't always have to do with interests. And certain opposite personalities can complement each other (like a extroverted partner who tries to help their introverted partner come out of their shell a bit more.) People are more than a stereotype/archetype irl and in fanfic you can also subvert those stereotypes or give them lil plot twists to make them more unique since most people are gonna be bored if you stick to their stereotypes 100% completely. Again I am not a Boyfriends stan nor am I trying to defend it, but real life relationships are way more complex and multilayered than just having a few interests in common lmao
one of the storys I only like in the whole site is Down to earth. it realy goes kinda deep into what makes a relationship work. also what makes a toxic one.
Obviously unasked for as everything is but pesonally I hate down to earth comic since the two main characters relationship seems so creepy. she's pretty much a hypersexualized child (who's at the same time not actually a child) physically, mentally and emotionally and he's just an edgy asshat who Is the main reason she's hypersezualized but that's just what I picked up from the first couple of chapters maybe it gets better later but I couldn't handle it enough to read too far it hurt too read
as someone who liked reading boyfriends, being compared as "fast food" and "instant gratification" pretty much checks it I liked the webcomic for that exact same reason of making me feel happy in that moment if I try to go back to read it I'll probably like it because of nostalgia, but yeah, you're totally correct on this one it's good to see a comment that actually brings stuff up instead of just "he talks cringe" and "ugh why is it all pastel"
so, the comic is definitely the author's wish fullfilment, they're a gay trans man, indonesia isn't the most queer friendly place in the world, and that is where they live. So it being an escapist fantasy for the author makes total sense, and if that's what they want to write or draw, there isn't much we can do to stop him, nor much reason to. The characters, as bland as they are, at the very least aren't in a toxic or predatory relationship, they are all consenting young adults in college, and for the little dynamic they actually have, there isn't anything even remotely resembling abuse. all those facts alone puts it far above almost EVERYTHING on the romance section of webtoon. It's bizarre that this is getting so much hate, despite The Fate still existing. But what really rubs me the wrong way is that people aren't treating it as what it is. Some people are taking this junk-food Lowest Denominator, fluff filler escapist fantasy as an actual story, with actual characters, and criticizing it, harshly might I add, as such. On top of that, some people have actually tried to cancel the creator over it, with shit that is quite easily disproven. Like, this dude made an nsfw BTS comic, which would be horrible, if it weren't for the fact that when it was made... Ray was actually YOUNGER than the members of BTS, and with youth comes stupidity. Some people are also saying that because Ray is Trans that he's not "A real gay man" and as such isn't qualified to write a gay comic which is just... blatant transphobia, they're not even hiding it at this point. Like, yeah, it's escapist fluff... where is the problem though? like... why are your feathers getting so ruffled over it? don't like it? don't read it. Don't want to see the ads for it, get an adblocker. There is much MUCH worse representation out there, stuff that makes this look oscar-worthy by comparison. So why are people getting mad over THIS, instead of the rest of the bullshit. Again, it's only sin, if you can even call it that, is being obnoxious. I can't speak on the cringe though, because if I were to say "Cringe Bad" I would be one hell of a hypocrite. I have not only consumed, but gladly enjoyed stories that are actively made to be cringe-inducing (neon white, anyone?) so I have no right to talk here.
This is exactly the way I feel about it. As an LGBT person in Indonesia, this comic means a lot to me. To know that a creator from here can create such works about LGBT and have it perform well, it gives me a sense of reassurance. I don't understand why people hate it to the extent they do. The creator has probably repressed being LGBT offline constantly because of our homophobic country, so he expresses his escapist fantasies through his comic and online posts. But even there, he is dogpiled by strangers and told he's not representing gay people the correct way. It's saddening honestly.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid People hate on it because it’s mid, even with the fact it’s supposed to be not taken seriously. Even escapist fluff is not rid of problems and criticism. If you put something out there, even advertise it, it is 100% reasonable that people criticize your work. There are far better examples of escapist fluff SoL. It’s good that it’s reassuring for some, but there’s a reason people don’t like it. Shit with bland characters and poorly represented groups living off of sexual innuendoes does not fly with everyone
@@checkmate6019 Again, my problem isn't that, because if we're being honest, I agree with almost everything you said. My point is, people don't see it as what it is, it's a junk food story you eat to tide yourself over for a bigger meal. but also the fact they're actively harrasing Ray, because NOOOO they can't just hate the story and leave it at that! are you crazy? no, they have to go out of their way to make it an issue of MORAL SUPERIORITY rather than of simple literary taste difference. it's like trying to claim you're inherently morally superior for liking Haute cuisine over a frozen meal, and then threatening to blow up the frozen meal factories. Except this isn't a factory, it's a real human being, with an actual psyche that can, unlike a company, suffer actual mental and physical injury. And I feel like as self-proclaimed "Progressives" we really should've grown out of the death-threat phase forever ago. The worst part, at least for me, is that these same people are also relying on LITERAL BLATANT TRANSPHOBIA to make their point, by claiming that Ray "Isn't a real man" and therefore "Cannot write about gay men." This is bullshit of course, ESPECIALLY coming from the self-proclaimed "Progressive" twitter crowd, but of course they don't fucking get it. And while it's likely that it's mostly truscum (yes the name is intentional, and in my opinion, quite descriptive) holding this opinion, I have seen some people from the xenogender crowd say shit like this, which is really mind-boggling, because they don't seem to understand that successfully invalidating ray with this logic also means obliterating any public potential of validity for their identities should the faulty logic they're using actually hold up to public scrutiny. Because if you can invalidate a trans man on the basis of "Hasn't transitioned or gotten diagnosed", especially in a country where both those things are impossible, how are you going to justify having a gender that is so convoluted you can only describe in metaphor? Then there's the pro-shipper discourse, but that is for another day because I have a LOT of thoughts on it.
Thank you! So many people are trying to take it as an actual story! Also, the fact that it gets called multiple times in this video as a "sexual fantasy" when the comic is pure fluff just makes me uncomfy I am aware of the R34 stuff, but I personally, as a gay, trans polyam dude myself just really like reading the fluff
I remember seeing a tweet from Refan explaining that the Boyfriends was just so he could express himself. It's more of thing for him to vent of sorts and less for his readers. It wasn't meant to have a major story with drama, it's just a thing that Refran wanted to let out because of where he lives
Blacklightjack won't be remembered for coining the term "inclusivity bias" as much as he should for coining "bipolar boner disorder" holy shit I'm crying
the thing is, i read boyfriends before it blew up (the first few chapters anyway) and i liked it decently. i didn't get super into it, but i read it from time to time when i got bored in class. i'm an enjoyer of pastel colors, i (even still) like the art style, and the names were easy to remember. now that i know a bit more (about boyfriends and art in general), i kinda want to go back and reread it in full just to see how i feel about it now. btw, this is coming from a polyamorous biromantic trans man. i'm not a cishet who's into the fetishization of queer people and relationships.
I think one of the worst things about this comic is that it's a great example of gay baiting, ironically enough coming from a gay (and trans?) author. The whole porous of the story is to bait readers to read about a gay romance, while not actually writing any of that romance in. Outside of ship moments, I hadn't seen a moment of genuine romance bonding, where two or more of the so called boyfriends actually acknowledge their relationship and act on it by giving small but significant gifts to each other, being intimate together (not necessarily in a sexual way), or heck, just having a long fun date night that would make them grow closer. Baiting kisses and implying sexual tension (or full on sexual acts) are NOT what builds a good romance story, and they are more of a hook for actions and activities the romantic couple would be engaged with when they do eventually come together and decide they want to "take the next step" whatever it would mean for them. A good kiss scene might be a fine trigger for the relationship to grow and develop, and can be a significant turning point for the couple itself, by on it own the kiss ISN'T a replacement for the buildup of the emotional and physical romance itself, and the relationship CANNOT be build around sexual interactions alone. More so if those interactions are just implied but never actually shown, or even worse, being heavily baited with the implication that the characters (and author) would go for it, but never actually do. It's really infuriating to see a story that is basically all baiting but no actual romance (at least on page), and that story is pushed out to the masses as the next big thing in romance novels since Gone with the Wind, or Interview with a Vampire for the gay relation enthusiasts. Before anyone would say anything I'm not implying that gay baiting on it's own is a bad thing (tho it's still is, but that's not the point), but that basing your supposedly "super progressive" and "LGBT representative" story all around it is kinda disgusting honestly, as it promises a mountain of romantic goodies to the readers while delivering none of it. I would go as far as calling it a scam of your expectations, but that would be a disservice to scam stories that are at least honest they don't contain any actual romance in them.
@@liviwaslost Is it really that hard to believe Goth is the self-insert when Goth is a trans man, a comic artist who majors in art and is on the asexual spectrum when all of those also apply to the creator? Or are you just stereotyping him?
@@hyjinx1889 The author is a trans man who likes cute and colourful things so *obviously,* their self-insert is the one with the dyed hair that most readers perceive to be "annoying" and "cringey." Even if he has stated that his self-insert is the other character and the evidence is there to support that, he's *obviously* lying about that fact. His self-insert *obviously* has to be that character.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid okay your first comment seemed like you were implying that goth was his self insert and now i’m even more confused. besides, it’s not really your place to decide whether or not someone is lying about who their self insert is. Only they know, and besides, it doesn’t really matter anyways.
The tantrums being thrown over Boyfriends is so strange. The characters are stereotypes, sure, but like... that's the point. They mock it in-universe. It's a femboy, a flamboyant princely type, a himbo, and an emo, the character types that every fandom on the face of the earth salivates over anyway. It's very clearly a simple, tooth-rottingly sweet, and self-indulgent pet project that got popular. It wasn't meant to be a masterpiece, and for so many people to treat it like it was attempting to be a masterpiece is just dumb. Honestly, it models one of the healthiest relationships on the whole of Webtoon. All four boyfriends communicate, treat each other lovingly and dote on one another, are supportive of their interests and comforting for the small bits of angst there are. My biggest complaint is that it doesn't treat the very few "serious"/angsty scenes with as much gravity as feels appropriate. It's not my cup of tea, but I can absolutely appreciate the vibe.
Yea I’m late, the webtoon’s only real crime is being cringe and boring, but I don’t think the author really ever intended it to be a masterpiece with complexity or really anything? The only thing that I can understand people being upset about is Webtoon promoting that over other comics that are trying to actually have substance. Kinda like Netflix canceling and ending contracts with shows just to add another TikTok creator house, or another love island vs a show that actual has passionate writers and purpose of existing
I responded to a FB post advertising this saying exactly that this is what 14 yr old girls think gay relationships are like and one person responded by telling me that I'm lying and overexaggerating. Lol. Which I thought was odd because that's what this comic feels like. That and I've been in various discord RP communities where I thought had some decent writers in it ... until you see them write and then their true ages come out as you talk further with these people and you learn they're not old enough to be writing the shit they're writing but I'm not their parents. That doesn't mean it wasn't weird that a bunch of 14 yr olds wanted to bone my characters with no attempt to build any story or plot and would get offended when I tell them no. That experience was both hilarious and sad and I left those communities. But yes, this comic definitely reflects what young teenagers think romance is. No substance. Only fetish.
@Murasaki TheProtogen I just like normal story building and have been doing it for many years. It wasn't until 2020 that people began ruining it for me and that was only because it was there weren't a lot of good writers on discord and then everyone was bringing too much of real life into it that made it unpleasant. So I reverted back to writing on a forum which is what I was used to. And I began to enjoy writing again with just little annoyances here and there. Not from the forum I'm on but just the one discord server I help manage. It's more discovering someone's idiotic plot that's hurting my brain now. But overall, I've been able to plot better with people who can write and build a story I can get behind. ^^
@Murasaki TheProtogen RPing is ultimately how my writing got better over the years. I started out writing leisurely when I was in middle school and I can admit I wasn't great at it. I often would cringe at how I used to write and how people on discord write was a reminder of that. It's hard to find people in discord communities that can write in detail and provide a story both of us can enjoy with our characters. I do that much better with forum RPs. I'm not tied down by the rules of "you can't be in more than one place with your characters" like many servers have which makes character development stagnant if you're forcing one character into one RP at a time and the scenes are just going no where when players aren't willing to give you any ideas to work with. Just telling you to write and not focus on plot which very much irked the hell out of me. We're both not that different. At least you do have a group of friends you can write stories with that allow you some form of escapism. ^^
@@DeathOfAnExecutionerr It's both easy and not at the same time. But for me, it depends on what type of plot/idea I have in mind for the character I'm trying to make. When it comes to the personalities of the characters, I try to make them at least reflective of actual people and not overly cartoonish. There's nothing more annoying than trying to write with an overly cartoonish character because then it doesn't feel like the character is reacting in certain situations that would possibly happen in real life. Or they just have one trait that's ramped up to 100 and there's nothing else about the overall character. I've seen too many characters like that and I can't draw ideas for plots when a character is so over the fucking top. But every situation in RP is different. Just yesterday I was coming up with ideas with a friend for our characters. It is better to take your time to figure out how you want the character to be. The more you use it, it will slowly develop throughout the plot you manage to come up with. It can be fun. ^^
Each episodes feels like its from tumblr prompt generator. When the creator needs to make an episode he sits down in front of the wheel and “okay which dry ship scenario should I draw next!?”
They do have names but they're not mentioned in the story, you'd either figure it out by googling it or finding out in the comment section. Goth is Felix Nerd is Adrian Prep is Vincent Jock is Kevin They're all self inserts from the author however Goth is actually the most self insert from the rest of the characters (the author himself said this). I personally am a huge fan of boyfriends but yeah, the writing is pretty bad. I do think it's gotten better compared to the earlier chapters tho
Hahahahaha! You have to find the characters' names in a supplementary Google search?! WT-actual-F? 🤣 ... ... ...Wait a second! If all these characters are based on the author... and they're all doing each other... does that imply that the comic is suggesting that the author is asphyxiating the rooster on the regular? Can he 💨 his own 🍆 until 💦?
This feels like something I would've made in seventh grade when i knew nothing about writing and storytelling and only did shit because I felt like it💀
@ARationalMind I think you meant *get criticized by an audience who came to be satisfied with a good story and get ridiculed for failing to provide such audience with the story it claims to be
@ARationalMind Fluff can have plot, a good plot helps the fluff thrive. A random conjunction of panels about two characters cuddling for no reason or a short story about two characters cuddling to support each other after a stressful event, which one is more satisfying? Gratification is not gratifying if you just get it immediately with no work, you can't bake bread without making the dough first. And btw, if you're gonna keep calling me dumb every two comments I'm just going to assume you ran out of arguments to defend your point and resorted to petty remarks, not a good look for someone self entitled "A rational mind"
@ARationalMind awesome man I'm majoring in english in literature too, anyway are you going to calmly explain your point instead of trying to bully a stranger into submission now?
Something that bothers me is that, despite being set at a university and all the characters being grown men, every single character acts like a child. The only one who even remotely acts their age is Jock, but aside from that, Goth and Prep act like they're teenagers and Nerd acts like a young boy. I know that one's age does not necessarily determine their actual maturity, but still, it's kind of jarring to hear phrases like "Owo? Choco?" or "Yaaaaaaaay, a boy's number!" coming out of the mouths of people who are old enough to vote. It just seems like the author _wanted_ to set their story at a high school, and only decided to change it to college so their characters could live on their own and have sexually suggestive moments.
Some of my favorite Webtoons: Punderworld, Suitor Armor, The Little Trashmaid, AJ and Magnus, Pixie and Brutus, Blood Stain, The Queen and the Woodborn. I unfortunately grew out of following Let's Play, the very first one I started following, not because I thought it went bad, but because I slowly realized that it was no longer for me in terms of interest. Like, by the time mid-S2 early S3 was a thing, we've completed forgotten all about the original focus and conflict (a nerdy girl who's a gamer and wants to become a game developer who conflicts with a prominent Let's Player on their UA-cam equivalent and slowly warming up to him as a person as well as opening up to other people about stuff), to focus completely on office relationship drama, complete with an (IMO) uncomfortable power dynamic. I'm not saying the story is badly written, or the characters aren't written well, or the emotional moments don't hit me hard... but it's also not exactly what I was originally following this story for either. The gaming aspect has been relegated to a subplot, when it was originally the main plot, and said main plot is now pretty much entirely romance. It's not bad, just... not my thing either. I also tried getting into Lore Olympus, not because I heard it was good, but because it was bad (even joined a Discord server that readily mocked and critiqued it). I got bored and disinterested around the mid 90s-100s.
Sam, Marshall and Charles, you mean? Or do you mean Sam, Charles and Link? Or Link and Marshall? To be fair, Sam is always the main character. And don't get me wrong here, I like Charles and the whole thing of him getting her to be more confident and loving herself is awesome, but as a love interest, he makes me uncomfortable, especially when the fandom screeches in joy when he does anything. I'm just not fond of the power dynamic of him being basically her boss and she has a clear attraction to him and he's barely keeping himself back. I left midway through S3, because I was severely uncomfortable with how it started with Sam drunk at his apartment and him resisting her advances (not to mention the whole her being passed out in his car and him taking her to his place... uh...). While that's good to see, it could've gone way worse. And apparently since I've stopped, they've banged anyway (so I hear, and what would her father think?! Wasn't it a conflict that she was understandably nervous about confessing her feelings because her dad is understandably SUPER overprotective of her and would murder Charles if he so much as touched her?!), so what does it matter? Potential repercussions or not, it kinda spoils his character not trying to fall for her, when I assume it was a mutual consensual agreement to do this (because anything other than it being mutual is way worse). Then again, I also was a Sam/Link shipper back in the day, and that got squashed. The way it was done was done well enough, and I'm glad that they're friends though. Even though I have my preferred ship, I do find the Link/Angela dynamic kinda cute too. And I'm glad that Marshall and his girlfriend are taking a break in order to figure themselves out as people. That's nice. If I were writing this, at this point, I would drop the romance exponentially and focus on Sam learning to love herself overall in a positive way, and not get together with anyone by the end. But still. Good character writing doesn't stop me from dropping it because the genre has been so hard switched and the original premise has been dropped. It's no longer for me, and that's okay. No hatred towards Mongie, of course, she's allowed to do what she wants with her work and I will respect it even if it's no longer my thing.
Lemme put this simply cuz I don't want to ramble, you can just tell this author simply was dicking around and wanted an instant gratification story and *DID NOT* Expect to be one of the best Webtoons on the platform. Like compare this to something like Bat Family webtoon. You can feel there was a story and a plan for Bat Family most likely and they cared about story.
You would LOVE sir fluff (animator on UA-cam who draws animation memes with his characters since 2018, characters are actually well written and really interesting. But warning it’s VERY gory and haves lots of violence even if it looks like cute, because well it’s representative of main character’s personality)
as someone who used to read boyfriends, i only rly stopped(pre controversy) bc i got bored. its extremely bland and yes half assed. theres no build up. i fuckin love slice of life but boyfriends is like those y/n centric fanfics v obviously written by a 12-14 yr old. tbh other than the blandness my main issue is that nerd(aka the self insert) is a proshipper(someone who ships incest and other gross things) which. . . ew. also says alot about the creator
I get the hate but honestly when you just want something to read and not think at all this is an ok read. The creator is from Indonesia where lgbtq people arent supported nor protected. The Boys love genre here is over romanticized as toxic relationship is never talked that much. Typically relationships like these are relatively closed and basically a taboo topic so its a bit understanding if the creator’s only experience is the internet and over simplified relationships
TBH, the creator didn't do anything all the 'problematic' shiz we find out about refrainbow is haters digging old shit up because they WANT more people to despise him and hate him. It's honestly pathetic.
3:44 I like the simple art style. The pastel color palette really make darker colors pops out. Plus I’m a sucker for pastel cool colors. Other than that no other colors compliments.
Boyfriends is like a comic for actually expecting nothing, its like junk food you consume daily, which makes it boring/superficial If some like it, fine but so you know it's not as good as they think it is Edit: Oh and I wanted to know why people are realizing Lore Olympic is bad, I tried reading it once but didnt caught my attetion, I wanted to stay updated of what happened lol
I use to like this webtoon for only 2 reasons, 1: the art style was actually somethingi liked, i didn't love it and i still don't but it's much more mundane then other webtoons i had seen so i liked it being rather pastel and chill, 2: shipping. I went into "teen life" per say before reading this and etc, i was just a simple person looking for stereotypical shipping and i had found it, on a actually easy to find almost stereotypical shipping website, it was just me going "OMG THEIR GAY YAAAS-" and going "oh he's a bottom" I'm still cringing everytime i think about genuinly adoring this webtoon, it's just overall.... yeahh- and after reading some of the comments, kinda glad i dropped it just a month after starting to read it, but i also didn't like the reasons it was being hated for, and I'm glad i finally found someone to talk about that
honestly, the massive wave of hate seems to come from people not understanding they can just...not like something. it's not enough to think its cringe or bad, they have to make it out as problematic.
I recall seeing ads for this comic on UA-cam, and those alone could tell me how bad it is. I recall reading one comic on there about a teenage soldier, and I recall it being stupidly edgy even during the slice of life stuff (although my memory is fuzzy). I recall the action being good though.
I actually didn't hate it as much. It's not a masterpiece with some level of depth or profoundness, but a product made with maximum minimalism, which exists in every aspect of it. The plot, the structure, the characters, the art - all of them are simple and minimalistic to the point they don't contain anything at all.
The characters actually do have canon names, but the author never uses them for any of them in the comic. It’s so minute of a detail that I can’t be bothered to search it up again to cite them exactly.
have you seen furry content ? theyre really good at that kinda stuff , i dont think ive ever seen a furry whos bad at youtube , so whats up with your wording ? 💀
@@_BubblGum_ dude believe me I have seen some things from the furry community that have scarred me for the rest of my life. If you have seen the things that I have seen you would understand why this commenter comment that.
I know you say that his online persona resembles Nerd, but IRL, the artist admitted that there is a self-insert in the comic. He's the Goth (and he actually does look like Goth).
Just listened to the whole thing and THANK YOU!!! I said this on your post before, "Why did people start attacking this now when it was known for so long and started in like 2020?" Because it's popular, because the creator is young and(now) successful, and because it's on webtoon.
Pretty sure the self-insert of the author is goth, he is trans and a main character (prep and goth appear more often in the beginning than the other 2) afterall. Nerd is more of a mascot due to him being the most liked among the fans somehow, I think the mascot next to the links changes hair colors along with him, like he gets the purple to blue to yellow hair at some point and so does the mascot. I may be be wrong on the last one but fairy certain that's a mascot, not a self-insert anyway. 16:23 also that wasn't just randomly thrown in, that's episode 1 shit lmao
my oc is exactly like that, and i want to make a webcomic or some type of story surrounding him, but it scares me that he'd be considered cringe and he seems like a self insert 💀
@@wankfred you’ve probably heard a lot of people tell you this but you should create the story you want to create :) if your oc brings you happiness, you should explore his story as it is, as opposed to changing them to be something you think others want
I think my easily entertained brain was so obsessed with the colors and art style that I didn't realize there was actually a form of story, I read the first bit but got bored quickly
Seeing as the artist has been getting dogpiled aggressively by people who dislike his comic and hasn't actually confronted any of these people about it in any capacity, I'd say he doesn't even try to defend himself in the least bit. At this point, he just lets it happen to him.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid it's because there's no point. Where the author lives our country does not protect LGBTQ+ people. Hell our existence might as well be outlawed. So there's no point in trying to defend yourself. Just block and move on.
It kind of it disappointing that webcomics like Boyfriends are so popular or talked about. I get why it is popular since it hits a niche and a certain demographic. But when there are better written romance webcomics {there are the rare few on Webtoon. My favorites are Miss Abbott and the doctors for it’s healthy relationship and the chemistry between the leads. Always Human I remember exploring the relationship between a two girls and their characters well. I haven’t read it in years though. } A good slice of life webtoon I liked was Yumi’s cell which was like Aggretsuko but with human characters and written better. Slice of life can be really good but with a cringy comic that can make it so no one can really relate to it. The characters in Boyfriends are stereotypes without substance and are merely tools to show off cheap ship moments. The writing in the comic definitely feels like it was written without any planning. It feels exactly like the creator had an idea for a cute ship idea but didn’t want to write a natural way for things like that to proceed. Nothing connects naturally. The “characters” of boyfriend aren’t even characters but tools and that is what makes it feel so lifeless and painful to read for some people. The fact that they don’t feel like people makes the comedy and comic not work in my opinion. A good slice of life needs to be planned out and Boyfriends isn’t clearly by it’s writing. This webcomic clearly isn’t for me. I don’t like art style either. Since it reminds me of a pastel character creation app. But the reason I couldn’t continue to read it was it’s writing. I heard there are even girls in the comic who are the cast genderbent in a polyamorous relationship. The creator was being canceled over something I heard as well which may be another reason why Boyfriends is so talked about.
16:22 you keep harping on about this plot point of them watching anime together on a date came out of nowhere when literally at 4:53 you show Goth running into Nerd, talking about the anime in question, and you summarize that they say 'wanna do something together' and exchange numbers, and Prep gets mad that Goth is so good at getting dates. THAT was the establishment of the date. In episode 1. How was that not planned out? Goth was just suddenly taking Nerd up on the offer made in episode 1. How did you forget about something you just talked about 12 minutes ago?
Every time I'm suffered to see a single line of dialogue from this webtoon, I find another piece of my soul gouging itself out with its own teeth and shitting it out onto Satan's breakfast burrito
The real reason: Webtoons started to shill the crap out of this Webtoon comic and made animation videos based of the comic and placed it as ads on UA-cam. It pissed off a lot of viewers, and didn't really help that the ads were also unskippable. So it caught the eyes of a lot of people who weren't even fans. Webtoons and the creator actually succeeded in their job to get his comic out to media. Because there will inevitably be some that are curious enough to start reading the comic and that's how the creator wins.
The real reason why the webcomic is hated is because it was heavily pushed in youtube advertisments a while back so several people my self included outside of the webtoon bubble were forceably exposed to it
I like this kind of story. Just simple fun without too much thought put into them. I can't handle it when story talk about serious issues and bad stuff that happens in real life. Things are bad already everywhere I look why would I want to read about them when I can just see cute situations and cuddle. This kind of simple stuff suit me, I don' t need perfect I need comfort and if this is comfort for some people why not 🤷♀️
I find this so funny because I read this comic when I was 9, and I'm a girl, and even I hated this shit, I had no idea what was going on. I was waiting for it to actually have a story, and then it didn't, so I stopped reading, but then again, I'm a weird teen, same for preteen me because even when I was young, I was never gullible. I like things that had essence and an actual story you can never sit me down in front of something that actually had zero story or anything good about it you could ever do that because I get bored and believe me I didn't have the short attention span to get distracted by anything I was watching and not be able to declare if it was good or not and leave it alone so if it's terrible for someone older than me didn't wanna watch I didn't wanna watch it either so yeah I was a weird kid still am 'cause I still operate like this :).
I thought I'd bring this up to give further context on the existence of this comic. Boyfriends creator Refrainbow is a gay trans man from Indonesia, a country (from what I've heard) that isn't the greatest when it comes to social issues like LGBTQ+ and antisemitism. He is not a western member of the community like many of us here with first world LGBTQ+ problems. So, to put things into perspective, this comic is, more likely than not, escapism for gay people like him and others who live in not-so-optimal social environments, hence the vanilla, sickly sweet shipping in these issues. (Doesn't stop the preteen girls of course 😁) Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending the comic itself. I find it garbage as a bisexual man myself. I was cringing so hard at the dialog in this video that I expressed a face of sheer horror. 😱 So, in conclusion, that's why the comic is like this. I only brought this up, so more people can understand it though it doesn't mean that you have to like it now because I most certainly still don't 😂
I am late to the party haha. maybe it's because I grew up reading shojo manga and BL/GL stories, but i really don't see the problem. I've read worse. it's basically just hetalia with highschool stereotypes. wasn't it really popular 5-10 years ago, to take some kind of stereotype or object and make it into a person? and slice of life as a genre is often pretty shallow to begin with if it's not mixed with another genre to give it some actual plot. You get what's on the tin. it's a bubble gum comic made for fast entertainment.
I didn't grow up reading any of that but I still don't see the problem. People don't like it and act like it's a crime against humanity because it doesn't show something accurately, which is really stupid considering other stuff that's popular and well liked.
Honestly my only gripe with this series is the extremes they go to with all the Facebook/iFunny memes Edit: I mean the memes they reference in the comic. Not the memes people make of it.
As a goth i feel ofended. The "goth" boy is really just an eboy who dresses dark clothes, more emo than goth for real. Goth community has long struggled with misunderstanding and this shit will only make problem worse. Comics and series in which the author placed a dark character and called them goth are harmful. If you want to add gothic character to your work please read something about subculture before (not on tiktok).
@@headshotmaster138 Of course there are goths. Emos are rather rare, but they are still alive. How often you see goths depends on where you live, but you may pass them by unconsciously because many people don't dress extremely on a daily basis. There are many goth festivals. People come there to listen to the music, it means that the subculture is not dead.
Tbh, because this artist lives in a country where the Islam religion is the more dominant religion, him being gay is seen as something people around him will kill him for. It really is a lonely life. Precisely because of religion, he cannot even think of ever actually settling with the man of his dreams because it’s literally frowned upon and he will literally have zero support from people irl. He won’t be stoned to death, but literally in such religious countries, if anyone hears that you’re LGBTQ+, he can get killed for it in silence and no one will ever know why he died. His situation is just like how sodomy is still a crime in some countries, like even if two guys get it on in private and someone just so happened to get wind of it and decided “imma be an ass today” and reported it.
I hate this webcomic because I tried kissing one of the homie and instead of a relationship I got a restraining order and a tracker on my leg.
Damn hate when that happens 😔
i tried kissing a homie after a head injury, just like the jock, sadly the dna evidence led to a 1st degree murder conviction. currently typing this as they strap me in for the lethal injection.
There's alot to unpack here...
What?! I-
skill issue
the random bystander at 8:01 is truly the best character. he shows up, gets hit with a basketball, gets angry, punches the jock, and never shows up again.
Absolute gigachad.
@@CementConsumer77 Truly.
He is a true chad
He’s readers self-insert
@@Lnarmmreal
This really does feel like what a corporation would make for Pride Month
So it’s like
“How do you do fellow gays.”
It seems more like what a content generating A.I. would synthesize for Pride Month.
The corporate pride month equivalent of "Am I gay correctly?"
@@viktoria_pikovsky my exact thoughts.
I hate Webtoons corporate comics
Wait till he finds out that not only does the creator do rule 34 of their own webtoon, but THAT'S where you find the characters actually names. Like their real names.
LMAO
There is so much to take from that fact alone.
That has to be the second most patheticly concerning way to hide lore... The first one being through NFTs.
..what are their names?
@@SugarT.ts_ i think preps name is vincent, goths name is felix, nerds name is adrian and jocks name is kevin 💀💀
I think there is a connection between its popularity and the backlash. An unpopular bad thing induces no rage because nobody is giving it attention. But when a lot of people are lavishing time, attention and fan adoration on something bad, it makes people angry because they're giving those things to something undeserving.
For instance: If Twilight had just been a mid-level teen vampire romance that was mildly popular with tweens but never hit the bestseller lists, I don't think people would have devoted as much time and energy to hating it.
Absolutely true. It evokes a sense of unfairness and makes people want to rectify or balance it out. One way to balance out praise is, of course, ridicule.
I read the whole first book and read a few chapters of the second. I feel like I'm justified in my hate of it.
@@corenlavolpe6143 it's funny how those same people giving the hate attention to the very thing they find undeserving of that attention are the very ones giving it all that attention. Well, the extra attention at least.
When instead they could have took that energy and supported the art that they do think is well deserved of the attention and support. I swear, people will rally behind something they hate before they rally behind something they love.
They are kind of bright. It is unfair. But they're not one to talk when they're not the ones willing to give what they find deserving the fair treatment. Not enough self-awareness to realize they're basically part of the problem.
The best thing to do with trash that doesn't deserve the attention is to not give it in the first place. Let it go back to the dumpster where it belongs. This should be common sense. Like with paid products we vote with our wallets, with free items we should vote with our attention or lack there of. What compels people to go against what should be common sense?
Screw cocaine, rage is a hell of a drug.
This
I rather read Twilight than Boyfriends!
Besides the boring characters and nonexistent story the part about this comic I really hate is that “goth” isn’t even goth hes just an e-boy
He gives me "it's not a phase, mom" vibes
Yeah, and no hate to eboys if they accept it and admit they’re store-bought and in it mostly for the aesthetic, but he’s literally named goth! As an alt, it infuriates me to see another alt call themself a subculture they aren’t.
Literally! It's either e-boy or the whole 'clean goth' trend currently happening on tik tok.
goth is a music based subculture but i doubt that the author actually gives a shit
right?? bro probably listens to lil peep not bauhaus
I think the reason why this had such a strong backlash was because for a wile webtoons pushed a lot of adds involving this “comic” especially on UA-cam and a few of them you couldn’t skip so the constant exposure just annoyed everyone. As the saying goes “if you poke the tiger enough it’s going to bite you”.
Oh this one for sure, it’s the reason why it got me pissed in the first place lmao
Thank you so much! I feel like a lot of people in these discussions don’t really get that, the people who don’t understand why there’s an outrage about it. There’s an outrage about it because it’s forced down anybody’s throw to even showed the UA-cam algorithm any crumb of an amount of interest in anime and comics, so then they shut this in our face for like months on end, and it was like 98% of the advertising when surfing UA-cam
@@otakumangastudios3617 it was all I got for a week straight no joke. I had to quit watching UA-cam videos for a good wile just to purge my brain of the add it was practically burned into to back of my eyes.
@@dizzyizzy7403 exactly! I wish these people actually understood why people were in raged. It’s not the same as a lot of other things people got mad about, although now I’m sharing understand maybe why other people are mad about things like high garden space. People said “oh they’re just not open minded to other things “or “why can’t they just be OK with other people having different preferences? “The thing is, from what I do know, the people who were complaining about it were people who watched anime frequently, most likely from the most popular anime site, Crunchyroll. I barely use Crunchyroll if at all, but I know they have ruthless anime ads, especially if you don’t have a membership with them. Maybe for a while just like with the boyfriend‘s ads on UA-cam, it was the exact same case on Crunchyroll with high Guardian spice. Perhaps people just so constantly got bombarded with contact related to it when they’re just trying to watch attack on Titan, they eventually got in raged because they just couldn’t take it anymore. I know I personally considered to make a video about boyfriends because of how many times I got the ads, but I was so afraid to come off as “not politically correct “because “oh you just don’t like that they’re gay and polyamorous! It’s gay acceptance! “And then I became very relieved to see that the LGBT community on UA-cam also were in distain of this comic for the most part. There were some that said “it’s just fluff get over it! “But thankfully most had a brain and said that it felt very uncomfortable for them because it reinforces a lot of homophobic stereotypes, even though it’s written by someone who is LGBT. Goes to prove that you could be prejudice no matter what group you are
from
The (un)funniest fact about those animations is that I remember someone saying the animation of the adds were actually fan animations that the horrible Webtoon marketing team allegedly used without the consent of the people who did both the animation and the voice acting.
The comic as a whole reminds me of my "uwu kawaii" kind of cringe phase.
At least you eventually recognized your s†upidity and changed your behavior.
“uwu kawaii” literally describes the entire comic
yeah I think that’s why it bothers me so much because it just makes my blood boil seeing gay men portrayed in an “uwu kawaii” way
That's exactly what it is. And it pisses me off because it makes the entire genre of BL seem like soulless weeaboo trash to outsiders when I'm over here trying to write legit stories about Victorian men going on airship adventures and naturally falling in love with each other instead of having it thrust on them like a stupid deus ex machina and reading good comics and stories that balance emphasizing male sexuality and telling a good story.
M/M fiction can and does have just as much variety as straight fiction, but only the uwu kawaii weeb stuff gets any attention so people will think that's literally ALL M/M fiction
You poor soul. I also had cringe art, but it was in the form of stick figures
"Boyfriends is the webtoon equivalent of fast food"
More like candy, everything looks so unbelievably sweet I'd get 15 cavities by looking at it.
Covered in most unhealty synthetic sweetener and industrial pigment so It look like candy
@@leobuana7430 looks like the grape flavor to me
I’ve got kind of a sweet tooth but man, this is just straight up shovelling sugar down my gob
@@Leechlordfestus Yeah, not even candy just straight up sugar 😭
@@Leechlordfestus Tbf this is more like high fructose corn syrup dude
Fun fact: The author live in a country where they can’t be gay, so here we are.
yeah, makes sense he uses this comic as an outlet
That explains a lot actually
@@mrpickles-hb6zx So she's a lesbian or what?
@@mrpickles-hb6zxThey’re a trans man. Identifies male.
@@mrpickles-hb6zx No, refrainbow uses he/they
I strongly agree with you not to get butthurt over some pastel slice of life fluff. Everyone forgot about it now.
Did you reread that to yourself? Plus I don't feel comfortable with a lot of the ass**lt in the comic so calling it 'fluff' isn't helpful.
I used to read it and I forgot it existed for the longest time.
@@therealopaartist me too, i found it by accident read a couple chapters and never read it again 🤷🏾♀️ it was pretty forgettable but not something worth getting THAT upset over.
@@therealopaartist same. Then I learned the author is fucking weird. I don’t care about the shallowness of the comic because a lot of comics do that even in the hetero romances. I just don’t want to support the author.
same, i picked it up once and i gotta say, if you turn your brain off it's a pretty enjoyable read. is it good by any means? no. does it have anything of a plot? no. but if you just wanna turn your brain off and look at cute stuff then i'd say try it.
i would love a piss take kinda comic where the characters are legally named after stereotypical high school tropes, like Goth, except they dont share any traits with their trope.
cause irl naming a kid Goth hss no bearing on them becoming a goth.
I created a lesbian couple in my head; Karen and Kimberly, and they're a Karen and a Kimberly. But with a twist: Karen is a Kimberly and Kimberly is a Karen.
“Here’s my driver license…”
Cop: [in tears] … how could they name you DEATH METALHEAD???”
“I sounded like a Tasmanian Devil as a baby. I have the video, but I’ll spare your ears.”
Cop:….please?
“Okay… But You can’t arrest me.”
XD
To play devil's advocate as someone who used to read it cause of a recommendation, that's not their actual names, just nicknames.
Whats a kimberly?
@@bajablastenthusiast5692 Kimberly means a woman or a gilr who's social and outgoing, and loves sports and shopping.
And for why it's popular? Because it's ship fuel. Shippers do not give a shit about genuine characters, just archetype dynamics. This author gave these relationship fetishists the perfect story with empty husks to play with. They couldn't ask for anything better.
@@naganut9718 that fandom also happens to have the most war hungry shippers. This webcomic has Polyamory involved. That shit is a shipper's dream. That essentially means they can go as batshit insane with their ships as they want.
Kpop fans in a nutshell and it’s especially disgusting because they are real people
@@sippycupdoll that fandom has the most advertising shippers. Holy shit, these people abuse hashtags just to promote their preferred idols and get them trending beyond belief. If a hashtag gets trending, you better believe it's because kpop fans had a war in it.
@@AmaryInkawult good reason to not have Twitter. Or Wattpad
@@sippycupdoll funny you say that because the author drew BTS nsfw while one of the members was still a minor
it legit didn't even click with me when i saw the "thanks for reading!" panel that the little character was the author's persona - i just immediately assumed that they were using the nerd character as the mascot for the comic or somethin
fun fact: they do actually have names,it's just that the creator decided to not use them for the comic for them to be blank slates to project yourselves into which might explain their lack of depth. here they are btw
goth - felix
nerd - adrian
prep - vincent
jock - kevin
also they're all asian of different nationalities too:
goth - chinese
nerd - japanese
prep - singaporean
jock - vietnamese
The names sound better than the type of character they are
They're all asians, huh? That explains the wierd K-pop vibes the cast has.
@@notquitehuman5097 the author is asian?
The jock really looks like the type of dude to be named Kevin tho
@@curepinkie1637 Indonesian to be exact
Still pisses me off that Merryweather and Osiimi had to self censor to get their stuff reuploaded, but this shit gets a pass.
@@SurealG Not calling for It to be censored (sorry if that what it sounds like) just the double standard that pisses me off.
@@EC0191 No but how? Genuinely. Webtoon has strict guidelines (ones that annoy me but still) and if those comics were breaking those guidelines but Boyfriends isn't, then its not a double standard for them to be censored over boyfriends.
Whats to censor? Its not even that deep a story and aside for the cliche character its not even offessive stereotype.
@@TheDapperDragon I mean the Boyfriend comics. Ive seen merryweather comics. Neither really needs censorship
Idk what Merryweather or Osiimi is, but what content does boyfriend have that needs to be censored.
THANK YOU FOR TALKING ABOUT THE SLICE OF LIFE GENRE AS BEING DIFFICULT. I'm a fanfic author and, as of the past several years, my main go-to has been slice of life. I'm lucky in that characters are my _strength_ in writing, so the stories often kind of write themselves. I don't really plan things out other than having a _very_ basic idea of the scene ("Characters X, Y, Z have breakfast"). I have to let my characters fill it in from there since I can't really control them.
SOL as a genre can be incredibly rewarding to write when done correctly. I currently have a 173,000 word story that covers about a month in universe, though most of that time is dedicated only to roughly a week and a half. There are some timeskips in there. In Chapter 5 of Part 1 of the duology, my FMC (Female Main Character) just had a man try to break into her apartment. As such, she's completely freaked out and has been raised in a society to believe that men are nothing but beasts that will take advantage of women. She was so terrified she literally could not move. However, my MMC (Male Main Character) had to get her over to the couch. After some coaxing from her best friend, she allowed MMC to pick her up and take her over to the couch.
Fast forward over 40 chapters later and into Part 2 of the duology. She actually has trust in MMC to some degree. It is _incredibly_ fragile and she doesn't trust him entirely. But MMC had just calmed her down from a near panic attack. He offered her a hug. He didn't do anything other than open his arms to her. It was entirely on her if she took it or not. And she _chose_ to move closer to him for comfort.
SOL can be an incredibly rewarding genre to write when done correctly. When I write it, you see literally _almost every step_ of the relationship as it develops. Writing out those steps in the tiny, incremental way I do is incredibly fun and so rewarding to see. What I described above took me literally 2.5 _in real life years_ to achieve. SOL takes a _lot_ of time to do. Obviously, if you're writing a 12-episode anime, you have more leeway with timeskips and stuff since you only have so much screentime. But in a setting like webcomics or fanfics, if you want it to be a slowburn, you _have_ to understand what you're doing with the characters.
But SOL is _NOT_ easy. You absolutely _MUST_ understand your characters to an _EXTREME_ degree. You have to understand their general trajectory and potential routes they can take. It is _not_ easy to understand characters to the _extreme_ depth needed to write SOL fics and/or webcomics especially if it falls into a slowburn style like how I write. It takes a _very_ long time of working with the characters to understand them so well.
I agree. I'm making something like that since last year and I haven't even started the story. I'm still making the characters (who are many btw), there are some of them that I'm not sastified about at the moment.
Even so, I've been having a lot of fun making them. Sometimes I imagine what they're doing right now or how they would afront something and many other things.
respect to you honestly, I was making a fanfic and couldn't finish t because of the convoluted plot, respect honestly
Hey ya, i know this is out of context but can you give me the link of your fan fiction? I genuinely interested to reading it.
Sorry if i had some grammar mistakr in my comment.
I really want a link for that! Sounds so good
I genuinely want to thank you for this comment. I want to write SoL because I like playing on character dynamic, but the "plotless" thingy makes me scared to do it. Nonetheless, I still really flesh out my MCs
As someone who lives and breathes (and even draws) dark fantasy and noir type art, this pastel style burns my eyes.
Pshh dude me too. It's just so... ugh. Fuckin kills me lol
Pastel is basically a fancy name for faded
I'm a hardcore goth, and I kinda like it.
Pastel is fine for me, but they literally use like the same four colors 💀
@@T_E_G yes, and makes this comic nauseating to look at
I feel like this is a comic for people who just want to read straight fluff
not too heavy on plot or development, just simple romance scenarios revolving around the cast
i don't even think that's necessarily a bad thing
There’s comics with better written fluff.
@@liviwaslost Well that's just pointing out the obvious
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad i didnt say anything about stereotypes
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad sure but that doesnt have anything to do with what i said
@@I_Dont_Believe_In_Salad
I feel like..people are allowed to like media that has some stereotypes, like total drama island for example. That show is festered with stereotypes because that's the point. No one has to take it too seriously.
As a person who did cringey yaoi roleplays as a teen, I feel so exposed lolol.
In all seriousness, your analysis made me realize that it wasn’t the slice of life genre that I didn’t enjoy, it was that as you said, people use it as an excuse to not try. When I think about it, a lot of my favorite parts of shounen anime are the slice of life bits in between the arcs, and my favorite tv show is also a slice of life.
It’s just that most slice of life media just think that throwing enough *quirky* characters at you can overshadow their garbage plots. It can’t.
I roleplayed in a roblox game with another dude and some people that joined us from time to time when i was like 12, we were almost boyfriends in the rp but more like friends, just doing casual stuff and some drama here and there, was pretty fun but i didnt friend the dude so i never saw him again
"I'm a morosexual..." He's into godly wolf beings from Ancient Japan?
O
M
G
XD
Lol
I read this badly, as "moronsexual"...
I mean, who isn't? Shout outs to all my werewolf fuckers reading this lol
Morosexual-- The attraction to dumbasses. Wikitionary.
Honestly this comic is peak Webtoons. Boring one note stock characters, nonexistent plot, and barely concealed sexual fetishes/fantasies really are par for the course and to be expected at this point. But that’s kinda also what most of the people who regularly browse webtoons go there for anyway (either to make fun of or legitimate enjoy reading) so it makes sense the comic is popular/Infamous.
This is not really peak wepton's or what weapons is really all about if you remember back when wintons was starting off they did a lot of action series 2 like God of high school tower of God heck even stuff like boxer maybe you should expand a little bit more
@@TheDapperDragon Would Castle Swimmer and High Class Homos be listed as simple gay-bait? That's what I've mostly been reading when I get bored.
I stay away from most Webtoons but there are some really good ones, like Everything Is Fine, Sweet Home and Not Even Bones. It seems like the worst ones are always the popular ones lol
@@sanecatlady I love sweet home!!!! Off topic You should read bastard by the same author as sweet home if you're willing because that's fire fr
@@eternalendurance you should also read How to become a Dragon it has a really good story and fleshes out the characters really well
finnaly, an actually sane person reviewing boyfriends
its skocking how many tweens read this comic and hate it so much they start callling it shit like anti-semedic and racist just so they have an excuse to obbsesivly hate it lmao
You really got to stretch hard to say this comic is somehow anti-semitic.
It does fetishize people of asian decent and please drop the ableism. Also you spelt anti-semetic wrong.
Where do you even find that info, I see none of that in the comic
@@cakefrosting6451 exactly
They legit DUG A 9 YEAR OLD TWEET(When the author was like FUCKING 13 AND BARELY understood English) of them saying the N word just because they wanted people to hate him more
I read the whole thing with my roommates one night and honestly? I'm pretty neutral about it. It has it's good moments but it's also plagued with cringe dialouge and weird...it's just weird. I'm a bi trans dude and I wasn't offended or whatever about it. It's alright, idk lol.
I’m the same. It’s fine. It’s what it is, and what it is is cute, cringy fluff. It never pretended to be anything else, and that’s fine.
I have to agree with you, Slice of Life content lives or dies by their characters and their relationship dynamics. If they exist solely for fetishy crap, your SoL will become a pile of crap. This wasn't the main problem of Boyfriends, but holy shit it definitely adds to it.
Haha! Your soul will become a pile of crap.
Let's stay away from this webcomic.
what do a prep, a goth, a nerd, and a jock have in common.
nothing...except fanfic writers love pairing them together and pretending the relationship can work when they have wildly different personalities and hobbies.
Usually characters having almost opposite personalities can result in a good story or something like that…this is not one of those moments.
People don't have to have stuff in common for something to work. They can be interested in their own things, and still be open to explore new things with their spouses.
And it's clear they do have things in common, the jock and the nerd both love a girl band, and bond over learning their choreograph or listening to their music. The prep and the jock also love fashion, and clothing, particularly shoes. The prep and goth play video games together.
Do you know why ? Because characters are more than just their archetype, a jock can be interested in more than just sport, a goth, more than just dark clothing.
They're people, the are just what the author call them. The relationship between them do work, it's not always realistic, but it's fun.
I think they work better as a FREAKING WEIRD friend group...because you don't have the added pressure of being in a relationship with weirdos that you barely have anything in common with.
They are all fetishes. That is what they have in common.
I'm sorry but even though I'm not defending this comic, this comment is still a pretty bad take. My own boyfriend and I only have a handful of interests in common, but it's the few ones we DO have in common that we bond over and has kept our relationship pretty decently strong for over two almost three years by now at this point. Opposites attract is a popular trope in fanfiction for a reason- it's interesting trying to see how the characters still try to work with each other anyways and finding out what they DO have in common. It doesn't always have to do with interests. And certain opposite personalities can complement each other (like a extroverted partner who tries to help their introverted partner come out of their shell a bit more.) People are more than a stereotype/archetype irl and in fanfic you can also subvert those stereotypes or give them lil plot twists to make them more unique since most people are gonna be bored if you stick to their stereotypes 100% completely. Again I am not a Boyfriends stan nor am I trying to defend it, but real life relationships are way more complex and multilayered than just having a few interests in common lmao
one of the storys I only like in the whole site is Down to earth. it realy goes kinda deep into what makes a relationship work. also what makes a toxic one.
Down to Earth is one of my favs on Webtoon, and I agree with this
fr down to earth is good
@@rockyblak2 indeed it's the only reason why I have webtoons XD.
Obviously unasked for as everything is but pesonally I hate down to earth comic since the two main characters relationship seems so creepy. she's pretty much a hypersexualized child (who's at the same time not actually a child) physically, mentally and emotionally and he's just an edgy asshat who Is the main reason she's hypersezualized but that's just what I picked up from the first couple of chapters maybe it gets better later but I couldn't handle it enough to read too far it hurt too read
I also like that one
It’s weird how Goth also feels like a gamer
He has a twitch so not far of
@@sugarzblossom8168 i hope you’re being sarcastic-
@@sugarzblossom8168 yeah sorry, im just really bad at reading tone-
They are the type of person that either makes their voice deeper than Corpse or like an E-girl.
as someone who liked reading boyfriends, being compared as "fast food" and "instant gratification" pretty much checks it
I liked the webcomic for that exact same reason of making me feel happy in that moment
if I try to go back to read it I'll probably like it because of nostalgia, but yeah, you're totally correct on this one
it's good to see a comment that actually brings stuff up instead of just "he talks cringe" and "ugh why is it all pastel"
so, the comic is definitely the author's wish fullfilment, they're a gay trans man, indonesia isn't the most queer friendly place in the world, and that is where they live. So it being an escapist fantasy for the author makes total sense, and if that's what they want to write or draw, there isn't much we can do to stop him, nor much reason to. The characters, as bland as they are, at the very least aren't in a toxic or predatory relationship, they are all consenting young adults in college, and for the little dynamic they actually have, there isn't anything even remotely resembling abuse. all those facts alone puts it far above almost EVERYTHING on the romance section of webtoon. It's bizarre that this is getting so much hate, despite The Fate still existing.
But what really rubs me the wrong way is that people aren't treating it as what it is. Some people are taking this junk-food Lowest Denominator, fluff filler escapist fantasy as an actual story, with actual characters, and criticizing it, harshly might I add, as such. On top of that, some people have actually tried to cancel the creator over it, with shit that is quite easily disproven. Like, this dude made an nsfw BTS comic, which would be horrible, if it weren't for the fact that when it was made... Ray was actually YOUNGER than the members of BTS, and with youth comes stupidity. Some people are also saying that because Ray is Trans that he's not "A real gay man" and as such isn't qualified to write a gay comic which is just... blatant transphobia, they're not even hiding it at this point.
Like, yeah, it's escapist fluff... where is the problem though? like... why are your feathers getting so ruffled over it? don't like it? don't read it. Don't want to see the ads for it, get an adblocker. There is much MUCH worse representation out there, stuff that makes this look oscar-worthy by comparison. So why are people getting mad over THIS, instead of the rest of the bullshit. Again, it's only sin, if you can even call it that, is being obnoxious. I can't speak on the cringe though, because if I were to say "Cringe Bad" I would be one hell of a hypocrite. I have not only consumed, but gladly enjoyed stories that are actively made to be cringe-inducing (neon white, anyone?) so I have no right to talk here.
This is exactly the way I feel about it. As an LGBT person in Indonesia, this comic means a lot to me. To know that a creator from here can create such works about LGBT and have it perform well, it gives me a sense of reassurance. I don't understand why people hate it to the extent they do.
The creator has probably repressed being LGBT offline constantly because of our homophobic country, so he expresses his escapist fantasies through his comic and online posts. But even there, he is dogpiled by strangers and told he's not representing gay people the correct way. It's saddening honestly.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid People hate on it because it’s mid, even with the fact it’s supposed to be not taken seriously.
Even escapist fluff is not rid of problems and criticism. If you put something out there, even advertise it, it is 100% reasonable that people criticize your work. There are far better examples of escapist fluff SoL. It’s good that it’s reassuring for some, but there’s a reason people don’t like it. Shit with bland characters and poorly represented groups living off of sexual innuendoes does not fly with everyone
@@checkmate6019 Again, my problem isn't that, because if we're being honest, I agree with almost everything you said. My point is, people don't see it as what it is, it's a junk food story you eat to tide yourself over for a bigger meal. but also the fact they're actively harrasing Ray, because NOOOO they can't just hate the story and leave it at that! are you crazy? no, they have to go out of their way to make it an issue of MORAL SUPERIORITY rather than of simple literary taste difference. it's like trying to claim you're inherently morally superior for liking Haute cuisine over a frozen meal, and then threatening to blow up the frozen meal factories. Except this isn't a factory, it's a real human being, with an actual psyche that can, unlike a company, suffer actual mental and physical injury. And I feel like as self-proclaimed "Progressives" we really should've grown out of the death-threat phase forever ago.
The worst part, at least for me, is that these same people are also relying on LITERAL BLATANT TRANSPHOBIA to make their point, by claiming that Ray "Isn't a real man" and therefore "Cannot write about gay men." This is bullshit of course, ESPECIALLY coming from the self-proclaimed "Progressive" twitter crowd, but of course they don't fucking get it. And while it's likely that it's mostly truscum (yes the name is intentional, and in my opinion, quite descriptive) holding this opinion, I have seen some people from the xenogender crowd say shit like this, which is really mind-boggling, because they don't seem to understand that successfully invalidating ray with this logic also means obliterating any public potential of validity for their identities should the faulty logic they're using actually hold up to public scrutiny. Because if you can invalidate a trans man on the basis of "Hasn't transitioned or gotten diagnosed", especially in a country where both those things are impossible, how are you going to justify having a gender that is so convoluted you can only describe in metaphor?
Then there's the pro-shipper discourse, but that is for another day because I have a LOT of thoughts on it.
Yeah I feel the same way pretty much lol. I don't think it's super amazing but it's also not terrible, just cringey and riddled with outdated memes.
Thank you! So many people are trying to take it as an actual story!
Also, the fact that it gets called multiple times in this video as a "sexual fantasy" when the comic is pure fluff just makes me uncomfy
I am aware of the R34 stuff, but I personally, as a gay, trans polyam dude myself just really like reading the fluff
I remember seeing a tweet from Refan explaining that the Boyfriends was just so he could express himself. It's more of thing for him to vent of sorts and less for his readers. It wasn't meant to have a major story with drama, it's just a thing that Refran wanted to let out because of where he lives
So it IS self-insert fiction? It all makes sense now
It’s like those oneshot stories on Wattpad then
Less of a manga with a plot, more of a comic strip with reoccurring characters, like Garfield
I kinda feel bad for him-
@@CheeseyWitch he's doing good now, so that's good. He's just doing his own thing and trying to stay out of pointless drama
Blacklightjack won't be remembered for coining the term "inclusivity bias" as much as he should for coining "bipolar boner disorder" holy shit I'm crying
4:02
As an anime fan, I would NEVER be interested in a photo-editing software if it was advertised like THAT.
the thing is, i read boyfriends before it blew up (the first few chapters anyway) and i liked it decently. i didn't get super into it, but i read it from time to time when i got bored in class. i'm an enjoyer of pastel colors, i (even still) like the art style, and the names were easy to remember. now that i know a bit more (about boyfriends and art in general), i kinda want to go back and reread it in full just to see how i feel about it now.
btw, this is coming from a polyamorous biromantic trans man. i'm not a cishet who's into the fetishization of queer people and relationships.
I think one of the worst things about this comic is that it's a great example of gay baiting, ironically enough coming from a gay (and trans?) author. The whole porous of the story is to bait readers to read about a gay romance, while not actually writing any of that romance in. Outside of ship moments, I hadn't seen a moment of genuine romance bonding, where two or more of the so called boyfriends actually acknowledge their relationship and act on it by giving small but significant gifts to each other, being intimate together (not necessarily in a sexual way), or heck, just having a long fun date night that would make them grow closer. Baiting kisses and implying sexual tension (or full on sexual acts) are NOT what builds a good romance story, and they are more of a hook for actions and activities the romantic couple would be engaged with when they do eventually come together and decide they want to "take the next step" whatever it would mean for them. A good kiss scene might be a fine trigger for the relationship to grow and develop, and can be a significant turning point for the couple itself, by on it own the kiss ISN'T a replacement for the buildup of the emotional and physical romance itself, and the relationship CANNOT be build around sexual interactions alone. More so if those interactions are just implied but never actually shown, or even worse, being heavily baited with the implication that the characters (and author) would go for it, but never actually do. It's really infuriating to see a story that is basically all baiting but no actual romance (at least on page), and that story is pushed out to the masses as the next big thing in romance novels since Gone with the Wind, or Interview with a Vampire for the gay relation enthusiasts. Before anyone would say anything I'm not implying that gay baiting on it's own is a bad thing (tho it's still is, but that's not the point), but that basing your supposedly "super progressive" and "LGBT representative" story all around it is kinda disgusting honestly, as it promises a mountain of romantic goodies to the readers while delivering none of it. I would go as far as calling it a scam of your expectations, but that would be a disservice to scam stories that are at least honest they don't contain any actual romance in them.
Thats some cocomelon for 13yo fujoshis. Gay relationships for the sake of gay relationships.
You aren't wrong about Nerd being a self insert lol. The creator of the comic is gay. This is basically their cringey harem fantasy in comic form.
Lol the author says his self insert is goth but we all know it’s nerd.
@@liviwaslost Is it really that hard to believe Goth is the self-insert when Goth is a trans man, a comic artist who majors in art and is on the asexual spectrum when all of those also apply to the creator? Or are you just stereotyping him?
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid wait your comment’s confusing me what are you trying to convey-
@@hyjinx1889 The author is a trans man who likes cute and colourful things so *obviously,* their self-insert is the one with the dyed hair that most readers perceive to be "annoying" and "cringey." Even if he has stated that his self-insert is the other character and the evidence is there to support that, he's *obviously* lying about that fact. His self-insert *obviously* has to be that character.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid okay your first comment seemed like you were implying that goth was his self insert and now i’m even more confused. besides, it’s not really your place to decide whether or not someone is lying about who their self insert is. Only they know, and besides, it doesn’t really matter anyways.
The art style is so good, sad that it was wasted on this.
no its not, the lines looks like something that an i.a. could do, and the colors are nauseating to look at
I kinda like pastel colours and its a bit cute. I just dont like the dialouge and some scenes
True, I love the art style so much but the story just seems silly
yeah I think the artstyle is really cute. pretty much the only good thing about it
No the artstyle is trash and the colours hurt my eyes. It's just another copy of that uwu cutsie style that refuses to die.
The tantrums being thrown over Boyfriends is so strange. The characters are stereotypes, sure, but like... that's the point. They mock it in-universe. It's a femboy, a flamboyant princely type, a himbo, and an emo, the character types that every fandom on the face of the earth salivates over anyway. It's very clearly a simple, tooth-rottingly sweet, and self-indulgent pet project that got popular. It wasn't meant to be a masterpiece, and for so many people to treat it like it was attempting to be a masterpiece is just dumb.
Honestly, it models one of the healthiest relationships on the whole of Webtoon. All four boyfriends communicate, treat each other lovingly and dote on one another, are supportive of their interests and comforting for the small bits of angst there are. My biggest complaint is that it doesn't treat the very few "serious"/angsty scenes with as much gravity as feels appropriate. It's not my cup of tea, but I can absolutely appreciate the vibe.
Yes
Yea I’m late, the webtoon’s only real crime is being cringe and boring, but I don’t think the author really ever intended it to be a masterpiece with complexity or really anything? The only thing that I can understand people being upset about is Webtoon promoting that over other comics that are trying to actually have substance. Kinda like Netflix canceling and ending contracts with shows just to add another TikTok creator house, or another love island vs a show that actual has passionate writers and purpose of existing
It’s not even that bad, it just reminds me of all my middle school fanfics that I buried beneath my house
I responded to a FB post advertising this saying exactly that this is what 14 yr old girls think gay relationships are like and one person responded by telling me that I'm lying and overexaggerating. Lol. Which I thought was odd because that's what this comic feels like. That and I've been in various discord RP communities where I thought had some decent writers in it ... until you see them write and then their true ages come out as you talk further with these people and you learn they're not old enough to be writing the shit they're writing but I'm not their parents. That doesn't mean it wasn't weird that a bunch of 14 yr olds wanted to bone my characters with no attempt to build any story or plot and would get offended when I tell them no. That experience was both hilarious and sad and I left those communities. But yes, this comic definitely reflects what young teenagers think romance is. No substance. Only fetish.
@Murasaki TheProtogen I just like normal story building and have been doing it for many years. It wasn't until 2020 that people began ruining it for me and that was only because it was there weren't a lot of good writers on discord and then everyone was bringing too much of real life into it that made it unpleasant. So I reverted back to writing on a forum which is what I was used to. And I began to enjoy writing again with just little annoyances here and there. Not from the forum I'm on but just the one discord server I help manage. It's more discovering someone's idiotic plot that's hurting my brain now. But overall, I've been able to plot better with people who can write and build a story I can get behind. ^^
@Murasaki TheProtogen RPing is ultimately how my writing got better over the years. I started out writing leisurely when I was in middle school and I can admit I wasn't great at it. I often would cringe at how I used to write and how people on discord write was a reminder of that. It's hard to find people in discord communities that can write in detail and provide a story both of us can enjoy with our characters. I do that much better with forum RPs.
I'm not tied down by the rules of "you can't be in more than one place with your characters" like many servers have which makes character development stagnant if you're forcing one character into one RP at a time and the scenes are just going no where when players aren't willing to give you any ideas to work with. Just telling you to write and not focus on plot which very much irked the hell out of me.
We're both not that different. At least you do have a group of friends you can write stories with that allow you some form of escapism. ^^
Yeah this is.. something that I would read when I was like 9-12 lol
@@DeathOfAnExecutionerr It's both easy and not at the same time. But for me, it depends on what type of plot/idea I have in mind for the character I'm trying to make. When it comes to the personalities of the characters, I try to make them at least reflective of actual people and not overly cartoonish.
There's nothing more annoying than trying to write with an overly cartoonish character because then it doesn't feel like the character is reacting in certain situations that would possibly happen in real life. Or they just have one trait that's ramped up to 100 and there's nothing else about the overall character.
I've seen too many characters like that and I can't draw ideas for plots when a character is so over the fucking top. But every situation in RP is different. Just yesterday I was coming up with ideas with a friend for our characters. It is better to take your time to figure out how you want the character to be. The more you use it, it will slowly develop throughout the plot you manage to come up with. It can be fun. ^^
11:00 I remember only 1 meme.
"Owo?? Choco???"
*LOUD BEEP SOUND*
"You're wrong
Sluphuric acid"
*DEMONIC SCREAMS*
I love this comment
Even though I'm a woman, I accept my identity as one of your boys now. Your content has really grown on me.
Each episodes feels like its from tumblr prompt generator. When the creator needs to make an episode he sits down in front of the wheel and “okay which dry ship scenario should I draw next!?”
0:01 That second boy on the left really somewhat stole the design of my guy Olive Higgins from Purrfect Apawcalypse
PURRFECF APAWCALYPSE MENTION
They do have names but they're not mentioned in the story, you'd either figure it out by googling it or finding out in the comment section.
Goth is Felix
Nerd is Adrian
Prep is Vincent
Jock is Kevin
They're all self inserts from the author however Goth is actually the most self insert from the rest of the characters (the author himself said this). I personally am a huge fan of boyfriends but yeah, the writing is pretty bad. I do think it's gotten better compared to the earlier chapters tho
Wait they have names...
Hahahahaha! You have to find the characters' names in a supplementary Google search?! WT-actual-F? 🤣
... ... ...Wait a second! If all these characters are based on the author... and they're all doing each other... does that imply that the comic is suggesting that the author is asphyxiating the rooster on the regular? Can he 💨 his own 🍆 until 💦?
So, selfcest?
Of course the jocks name is Kevin
There's always has to be a jock named
Steve, Kevin, Butch, Brad or Chad
@@eddieweird specially Chad.
I always find the either jock love interest or the bully named Chad like...why
This feels like something I would've made in seventh grade when i knew nothing about writing and storytelling and only did shit because I felt like it💀
@ARationalMind Yes. You can say that they don't NEED a story. But you saw what happens to the ones that don't, didn't you?
@ARationalMind I think you meant *get criticized by an audience who came to be satisfied with a good story and get ridiculed for failing to provide such audience with the story it claims to be
@ARationalMind Fluff can have plot, a good plot helps the fluff thrive.
A random conjunction of panels about two characters cuddling for no reason or a short story about two characters cuddling to support each other after a stressful event, which one is more satisfying?
Gratification is not gratifying if you just get it immediately with no work, you can't bake bread without making the dough first.
And btw, if you're gonna keep calling me dumb every two comments I'm just going to assume you ran out of arguments to defend your point and resorted to petty remarks, not a good look for someone self entitled "A rational mind"
@ARationalMind awesome man I'm majoring in english in literature too, anyway are you going to calmly explain your point instead of trying to bully a stranger into submission now?
3:50 Even though I kinda like the art style, I think your description is the most accurate thing I have ever heard. 😂
Something that bothers me is that, despite being set at a university and all the characters being grown men, every single character acts like a child. The only one who even remotely acts their age is Jock, but aside from that, Goth and Prep act like they're teenagers and Nerd acts like a young boy. I know that one's age does not necessarily determine their actual maturity, but still, it's kind of jarring to hear phrases like "Owo? Choco?" or "Yaaaaaaaay, a boy's number!" coming out of the mouths of people who are old enough to vote. It just seems like the author _wanted_ to set their story at a high school, and only decided to change it to college so their characters could live on their own and have sexually suggestive moments.
The names of these characters
Goth: Felix
Preppy: Vincent
Nerd: Adrian
Jock: Kevin
(I had to look up porn for this 😭)
Some0ne needs to give this man a reward
They don’t need no award they need an Oscar
Ima be honest, the fact that you're both so level-headed while fricking borderline pissed off is actually SUPER entertaining man. Loved this vid 👍
Some of my favorite Webtoons: Punderworld, Suitor Armor, The Little Trashmaid, AJ and Magnus, Pixie and Brutus, Blood Stain, The Queen and the Woodborn.
I unfortunately grew out of following Let's Play, the very first one I started following, not because I thought it went bad, but because I slowly realized that it was no longer for me in terms of interest. Like, by the time mid-S2 early S3 was a thing, we've completed forgotten all about the original focus and conflict (a nerdy girl who's a gamer and wants to become a game developer who conflicts with a prominent Let's Player on their UA-cam equivalent and slowly warming up to him as a person as well as opening up to other people about stuff), to focus completely on office relationship drama, complete with an (IMO) uncomfortable power dynamic. I'm not saying the story is badly written, or the characters aren't written well, or the emotional moments don't hit me hard... but it's also not exactly what I was originally following this story for either. The gaming aspect has been relegated to a subplot, when it was originally the main plot, and said main plot is now pretty much entirely romance. It's not bad, just... not my thing either.
I also tried getting into Lore Olympus, not because I heard it was good, but because it was bad (even joined a Discord server that readily mocked and critiqued it). I got bored and disinterested around the mid 90s-100s.
Sam, Marshall and Charles, you mean? Or do you mean Sam, Charles and Link? Or Link and Marshall? To be fair, Sam is always the main character. And don't get me wrong here, I like Charles and the whole thing of him getting her to be more confident and loving herself is awesome, but as a love interest, he makes me uncomfortable, especially when the fandom screeches in joy when he does anything. I'm just not fond of the power dynamic of him being basically her boss and she has a clear attraction to him and he's barely keeping himself back. I left midway through S3, because I was severely uncomfortable with how it started with Sam drunk at his apartment and him resisting her advances (not to mention the whole her being passed out in his car and him taking her to his place... uh...). While that's good to see, it could've gone way worse. And apparently since I've stopped, they've banged anyway (so I hear, and what would her father think?! Wasn't it a conflict that she was understandably nervous about confessing her feelings because her dad is understandably SUPER overprotective of her and would murder Charles if he so much as touched her?!), so what does it matter? Potential repercussions or not, it kinda spoils his character not trying to fall for her, when I assume it was a mutual consensual agreement to do this (because anything other than it being mutual is way worse).
Then again, I also was a Sam/Link shipper back in the day, and that got squashed. The way it was done was done well enough, and I'm glad that they're friends though. Even though I have my preferred ship, I do find the Link/Angela dynamic kinda cute too. And I'm glad that Marshall and his girlfriend are taking a break in order to figure themselves out as people. That's nice. If I were writing this, at this point, I would drop the romance exponentially and focus on Sam learning to love herself overall in a positive way, and not get together with anyone by the end.
But still. Good character writing doesn't stop me from dropping it because the genre has been so hard switched and the original premise has been dropped. It's no longer for me, and that's okay. No hatred towards Mongie, of course, she's allowed to do what she wants with her work and I will respect it even if it's no longer my thing.
@@WoundPxnetration Never hurts to be sure, since it's a decently sized cast.
Ever heard of hooky?
@@chitae8551 No, why? Is it good?
@@manegirl93416 in my opinion it's really charming
11:03 -OWO?!? CHOCO???
- You're wrong,sulfuric acid!🤓
Lemme put this simply cuz I don't want to ramble, you can just tell this author simply was dicking around and wanted an instant gratification story and *DID NOT* Expect to be one of the best Webtoons on the platform.
Like compare this to something like Bat Family webtoon. You can feel there was a story and a plan for Bat Family most likely and they cared about story.
Your assessment at the end is brutally true. These webtoons are popular to fill young teen's gay/lesbian romance fantasy. Nothing more, nothing less.
For a sec I thought this video was dating advice not a comic book review 💀
I HATE HOW CUTE THE ART STYLE IS NOOO
You would LOVE sir fluff (animator on UA-cam who draws animation memes with his characters since 2018, characters are actually well written and really interesting. But warning it’s VERY gory and haves lots of violence even if it looks like cute, because well it’s representative of main character’s personality)
@@tayschannel2695 I’m actually already following them lmfao I LOVE their stuff!
I agree with everything you’re saying, but one small note. 6:20 that is Nerd. The author said that Goth is their self insert instead.
as someone who used to read boyfriends, i only rly stopped(pre controversy) bc i got bored. its extremely bland and yes half assed. theres no build up. i fuckin love slice of life but boyfriends is like those y/n centric fanfics v obviously written by a 12-14 yr old. tbh other than the blandness my main issue is that nerd(aka the self insert) is a proshipper(someone who ships incest and other gross things) which. . . ew. also says alot about the creator
I get the hate but honestly when you just want something to read and not think at all this is an ok read. The creator is from Indonesia where lgbtq people arent supported nor protected. The Boys love genre here is over romanticized as toxic relationship is never talked that much. Typically relationships like these are relatively closed and basically a taboo topic so its a bit understanding if the creator’s only experience is the internet and over simplified relationships
Oh
From what I read, Polly relationships never end well. It’s super rare for it to be stable
Yea I Agree....I Don't Like Boyfriends Because Of The Creator's Actions And The Comic Itself..
TBH, the creator didn't do anything all the 'problematic' shiz we find out about refrainbow is haters digging old shit up because they WANT more people to despise him and hate him. It's honestly pathetic.
“What other word do you use to describe this?”
The random Genshin Ad: “My mission-“
3:44 I like the simple art style. The pastel color palette really make darker colors pops out. Plus I’m a sucker for pastel cool colors. Other than that no other colors compliments.
Boyfriends is like a comic for actually expecting nothing, its like junk food you consume daily, which makes it boring/superficial
If some like it, fine but so you know it's not as good as they think it is
Edit: Oh and I wanted to know why people are realizing Lore Olympic is bad, I tried reading it once but didnt caught my attetion, I wanted to stay updated of what happened lol
I actually like the artstyle, I see nothing wrong with that
Real question: why does Emo gay look like a shadman character?
I use to like this webtoon for only 2 reasons, 1: the art style was actually somethingi liked, i didn't love it and i still don't but it's much more mundane then other webtoons i had seen so i liked it being rather pastel and chill, 2: shipping. I went into "teen life" per say before reading this and etc, i was just a simple person looking for stereotypical shipping and i had found it, on a actually easy to find almost stereotypical shipping website, it was just me going "OMG THEIR GAY YAAAS-" and going "oh he's a bottom"
I'm still cringing everytime i think about genuinly adoring this webtoon, it's just overall.... yeahh- and after reading some of the comments, kinda glad i dropped it just a month after starting to read it, but i also didn't like the reasons it was being hated for, and I'm glad i finally found someone to talk about that
The art style reminds me of happy tree friends.
And i’d laugh like hell if it builds up an ending just like that.
Do not compare htf to this dumpsterfire
honestly, the massive wave of hate seems to come from people not understanding they can just...not like something. it's not enough to think its cringe or bad, they have to make it out as problematic.
I AGREEE WHY ARE PEOPLE BEING SOO MEANNNN
SAY IT LOUDER FOR THE PEOPLE IN THE BACK
🤓
The worst part is that the inventory on the character bio or whatever is an exe. WHO WOULD STORE AN INVENTORY AS AN EXECUTABLE FILE WHAT THE HELL
I recall seeing ads for this comic on UA-cam, and those alone could tell me how bad it is. I recall reading one comic on there about a teenage soldier, and I recall it being stupidly edgy even during the slice of life stuff (although my memory is fuzzy). I recall the action being good though.
I actually didn't hate it as much. It's not a masterpiece with some level of depth or profoundness, but a product made with maximum minimalism, which exists in every aspect of it. The plot, the structure, the characters, the art - all of them are simple and minimalistic to the point they don't contain anything at all.
The characters actually do have canon names, but the author never uses them for any of them in the comic. It’s so minute of a detail that I can’t be bothered to search it up again to cite them exactly.
Wow, for a furry, you sure do make good content, you actually made something thoughtful and insightful!
for a furry?💀
💀 that's rude
have you seen furry content ? theyre really good at that kinda stuff , i dont think ive ever seen a furry whos bad at youtube , so whats up with your wording ? 💀
@@_BubblGum_ dude believe me I have seen some things from the furry community that have scarred me for the rest of my life. If you have seen the things that I have seen you would understand why this commenter comment that.
@@eddieweird of course i have. ive been on the unrestricted internet since i was a youngin’ . dont make assumptions .
"this comic is not worth getting worked up over guys" -> proceeds to get extremely worked up lol
I know you say that his online persona resembles Nerd, but IRL, the artist admitted that there is a self-insert in the comic. He's the Goth (and he actually does look like Goth).
Just listened to the whole thing and THANK YOU!!! I said this on your post before, "Why did people start attacking this now when it was known for so long and started in like 2020?" Because it's popular, because the creator is young and(now) successful, and because it's on webtoon.
Pretty sure the self-insert of the author is goth, he is trans and a main character (prep and goth appear more often in the beginning than the other 2) afterall. Nerd is more of a mascot due to him being the most liked among the fans somehow, I think the mascot next to the links changes hair colors along with him, like he gets the purple to blue to yellow hair at some point and so does the mascot.
I may be be wrong on the last one but fairy certain that's a mascot, not a self-insert anyway.
16:23 also that wasn't just randomly thrown in, that's episode 1 shit lmao
i long for the day my gay homies recieve a poper badass gay dude character, all of this "cutsey uwu" bullshit is starting to get annoying
my oc is exactly like that, and i want to make a webcomic or some type of story surrounding him, but it scares me that he'd be considered cringe and he seems like a self insert 💀
@@wankfred you’ve probably heard a lot of people tell you this but you should create the story you want to create :) if your oc brings you happiness, you should explore his story as it is, as opposed to changing them to be something you think others want
I think my easily entertained brain was so obsessed with the colors and art style that I didn't realize there was actually a form of story, I read the first bit but got bored quickly
Now I want to see the Dark Souls of web comics.
So what are the odds some narcisstic author that can't take a single negative word against them will try to copyright strike this one?
don't jinx it!
that is false copyright striking like you can actually go to jail/pay a fine for that
Probably zero. There are many videos criticizing Boyfriends' calling the author scum of the earth and they haven't been copyright claimed
Seeing as the artist has been getting dogpiled aggressively by people who dislike his comic and hasn't actually confronted any of these people about it in any capacity, I'd say he doesn't even try to defend himself in the least bit. At this point, he just lets it happen to him.
@@hyperinsomniaparacondrioid it's because there's no point. Where the author lives our country does not protect LGBTQ+ people. Hell our existence might as well be outlawed. So there's no point in trying to defend yourself. Just block and move on.
It kind of it disappointing that webcomics like Boyfriends are so popular or talked about. I get why it is popular since it hits a niche and a certain demographic. But when there are better written romance webcomics {there are the rare few on Webtoon. My favorites are Miss Abbott and the doctors for it’s healthy relationship and the chemistry between the leads. Always Human I remember exploring the relationship between a two girls and their characters well. I haven’t read it in years though. } A good slice of life webtoon I liked was Yumi’s cell which was like Aggretsuko but with human characters and written better.
Slice of life can be really good but with a cringy comic that can make it so no one can really relate to it. The characters in Boyfriends are stereotypes without substance and are merely tools to show off cheap ship moments. The writing in the comic definitely feels like it was written without any planning. It feels exactly like the creator had an idea for a cute ship idea but didn’t want to write a natural way for things like that to proceed. Nothing connects naturally. The “characters” of boyfriend aren’t even characters but tools and that is what makes it feel so lifeless and painful to read for some people. The fact that they don’t feel like people makes the comedy and comic not work in my opinion. A good slice of life needs to be planned out and Boyfriends isn’t clearly by it’s writing. This webcomic clearly isn’t for me.
I don’t like art style either. Since it reminds me of a pastel character creation app. But the reason I couldn’t continue to read it was it’s writing. I heard there are even girls in the comic who are the cast genderbent in a polyamorous relationship. The creator was being canceled over something I heard as well which may be another reason why Boyfriends is so talked about.
you expect too much from a fatherless society.
There’s a lot more romance and slice of life comics that are better than Boyfriends by a long shot.
16:22 you keep harping on about this plot point of them watching anime together on a date came out of nowhere when literally at 4:53 you show Goth running into Nerd, talking about the anime in question, and you summarize that they say 'wanna do something together' and exchange numbers, and Prep gets mad that Goth is so good at getting dates. THAT was the establishment of the date. In episode 1. How was that not planned out? Goth was just suddenly taking Nerd up on the offer made in episode 1. How did you forget about something you just talked about 12 minutes ago?
I will forget about this comment in the morning
I feel like this comic is more effective than gay conversion therapy ever would be
thats kinda rude lol
Went to Meijer found a lore ulympus book dreading the day I find a boyfriends book
Every time I'm suffered to see a single line of dialogue from this webtoon, I find another piece of my soul gouging itself out with its own teeth and shitting it out onto Satan's breakfast burrito
How did the webtoon get popular in the first place?
gay men and pastel art is my guess
@@Hanako-Kun-t9b most Webtoon readers are female
@@corenlavolpe6143 I know & they like seeing gay men do cute stuff
@@corenlavolpe6143 That explains so much.
The real reason: Webtoons started to shill the crap out of this Webtoon comic and made animation videos based of the comic and placed it as ads on UA-cam.
It pissed off a lot of viewers, and didn't really help that the ads were also unskippable.
So it caught the eyes of a lot of people who weren't even fans. Webtoons and the creator actually succeeded in their job to get his comic out to media.
Because there will inevitably be some that are curious enough to start reading the comic and that's how the creator wins.
The real reason why the webcomic is hated is because it was heavily pushed in youtube advertisments a while back so several people my self included outside of the webtoon bubble were forceably exposed to it
I like this kind of story. Just simple fun without too much thought put into them. I can't handle it when story talk about serious issues and bad stuff that happens in real life. Things are bad already everywhere I look why would I want to read about them when I can just see cute situations and cuddle. This kind of simple stuff suit me, I don' t need perfect I need comfort and if this is comfort for some people why not 🤷♀️
Yeah
I find this so funny because I read this comic when I was 9, and I'm a girl, and even I hated this shit, I had no idea what was going on. I was waiting for it to actually have a story, and then it didn't, so I stopped reading, but then again, I'm a weird teen, same for preteen me because even when I was young, I was never gullible. I like things that had essence and an actual story you can never sit me down in front of something that actually had zero story or anything good about it you could ever do that because I get bored and believe me I didn't have the short attention span to get distracted by anything I was watching and not be able to declare if it was good or not and leave it alone so if it's terrible for someone older than me didn't wanna watch I didn't wanna watch it either so yeah I was a weird kid still am 'cause I still operate like this :).
My brother in Christ if you read this when you were 9 you’re no older than 11
@@ChinChilla__ actually I'm older than 11 and I'm not 12 so yeah
I’ve been waiting for this
I thought I'd bring this up to give further context on the existence of this comic. Boyfriends creator Refrainbow is a gay trans man from Indonesia, a country (from what I've heard) that isn't the greatest when it comes to social issues like LGBTQ+ and antisemitism. He is not a western member of the community like many of us here with first world LGBTQ+ problems.
So, to put things into perspective, this comic is, more likely than not, escapism for gay people like him and others who live in not-so-optimal social environments, hence the vanilla, sickly sweet shipping in these issues. (Doesn't stop the preteen girls of course 😁)
Don't get me wrong though, I'm not defending the comic itself. I find it garbage as a bisexual man myself. I was cringing so hard at the dialog in this video that I expressed a face of sheer horror. 😱
So, in conclusion, that's why the comic is like this. I only brought this up, so more people can understand it though it doesn't mean that you have to like it now because I most certainly still don't 😂
I am late to the party haha.
maybe it's because I grew up reading shojo manga and BL/GL stories, but i really don't see the problem. I've read worse.
it's basically just hetalia with highschool stereotypes. wasn't it really popular 5-10 years ago, to take some kind of stereotype or object and make it into a person?
and slice of life as a genre is often pretty shallow to begin with if it's not mixed with another genre to give it some actual plot.
You get what's on the tin. it's a bubble gum comic made for fast entertainment.
I didn't grow up reading any of that but I still don't see the problem. People don't like it and act like it's a crime against humanity because it doesn't show something accurately, which is really stupid considering other stuff that's popular and well liked.
I'm not usually into that type of content, but you really make the criticism entertaining 😅
Honestly my only gripe with this series is the extremes they go to with all the Facebook/iFunny memes
Edit: I mean the memes they reference in the comic. Not the memes people make of it.
As a goth i feel ofended.
The "goth" boy is really just an eboy who dresses dark clothes, more emo than goth for real.
Goth community has long struggled with misunderstanding and this shit will only make problem worse. Comics and series in which the author placed a dark character and called them goth are harmful. If you want to add gothic character to your work please read something about subculture before (not on tiktok).
Do goths and emos even exist anymore? Because I never see you guys in public and when I do see you fellows, it's usually someone on tiktok larping.
@@headshotmaster138 Of course there are goths. Emos are rather rare, but they are still alive.
How often you see goths depends on where you live, but you may pass them by unconsciously because many people don't dress extremely on a daily basis.
There are many goth festivals. People come there to listen to the music, it means that the subculture is not dead.
Hey Blacklightjack, would you mind making a list of "not forced" lgbtq+ representation that you like? I feel like that would be pretty cool.
crickets
watch sarah z's video "sacrificial trash" and you'll understand why that won't happen
@@silverdrag0n_ oh okay thank you!!
If that happened, he would list probably manga and anime.
3:16 in my opinion the art style is like the only good thing about this comic
you know I honestly feel kinda bad for the artist. it seems like they might just be really lonely.
Tbh, because this artist lives in a country where the Islam religion is the more dominant religion, him being gay is seen as something people around him will kill him for. It really is a lonely life.
Precisely because of religion, he cannot even think of ever actually settling with the man of his dreams because it’s literally frowned upon and he will literally have zero support from people irl.
He won’t be stoned to death, but literally in such religious countries, if anyone hears that you’re LGBTQ+, he can get killed for it in silence and no one will ever know why he died.
His situation is just like how sodomy is still a crime in some countries, like even if two guys get it on in private and someone just so happened to get wind of it and decided “imma be an ass today” and reported it.
@@cakefrosting6451 So basically if Yos was an artist lmao