Why are there SO many Different Small Block Chevy Starters?!? Which one is right and HOW TO TELL!
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
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Couldn’t be a better way to describe it, this confirmed my theory. My new starter was staggered bolt pattern. Would work at all. Thanks, I’m sure a lot of people will be happy to see this explanation.
Glad it helped
Thank you, you not only answered questions I was searching for, I also learned a couple extra things that will help out on my starter swap. I'm working on my 79 El Camino, 350 small block and your experience and advice will definitely be of great value. I'll comment on how it went, when completed.
By far the best explanation I've ever heard for a starter video thank you very much much love brother!
Glad it helped man
This is a great video! I always wanted to know more about SBC's but never knew anyone who could get me aquanted with the finer details of those engines. I hope you can make more!
Glad it was helpful! thanks man
Thanks Bulldog. My 496 has ceramic coated long tube headers, and have them insulated with Heat Shield Exhaust Insulation Material too. No oil leaks. Going through aftermarket hi torque starters like crazy. (Summit house brand, Powermaster etc.) Running 2 batteries, 140amp alternator. 1 gauge Superstart cable. 10-30w oil. Starters can't spin the 10.5 to 1 engine. Last a week or two . Will try your clearanc technique. See if that helps.
Great video thanks for posting this.
that was a big help as i diagnose what is going on with my 73 stingray thank you!
Glad to hear it. I love the 73
So funny I see this on my page😂 a 350 and a 305 is very similar. Oreilly didn’t even know either since the starter I had was so old 😂 took 4 trips before I found the right one
I have a 1958 283 that I am building and it is factory block drilled for either type starter. The one that accommodates the 153 or 168 tooth ring gear.
BUT….
The side by side mounting holes for the 153 are more narrow than the later starters. There is discussion over on the HAMB that say about 1961 is when the holes went wider. I am using an aftermarket ebay mini starter and had to have the aluminum mounting boss drilled to accommodate for the narrower mounting.
This video helped me alot thanks
Not sure on this, but I think the cast iron transmissions had bolt into transmission starter, and aluminum transmissions had block mounted starters. I had a 60 Impala with cast iron Powerglide, starter bolted to transmission. My brother had 62 Impala with aluminum Powerglide with block mounted starter. Also, to add to confusion, some early bolt to block starters had smaller front/nosecone housing than later years. I have one but dont know what year it is.
Excellent video!
Thanks for watching
Good explanation good job 👍
Thank you
I bought a 79 suburban that had the old 3733365 bell housing in it. You never know what you’ll find in them old Chevys…
I used a 06 8100 factory starter on my 70 350, factory hi-output. Stagger bolt for the 168 tooth or 14" flywheel
Was the flywheel with out the weight on it?I'm not sure if a 90s small block starter would work on 80s chevy 305 small block
As far as the starter to engine, as long as the starter has a staggered bolt pattern with equal length bolts and you have a 14" flywheel it will work, regardless of if it has a weight on it or not. 2006 up 8100. I've been using that style on everything now, 99 5.7 suburban, 94 5.7 extended cab Chevy, 70 C-10. 350 , 87 astro van. 4.3. Yes the V-6 takes the same thing, high output, low current draw, just make sure you get the bolts to match it, the knurled end by the threads is supposed to stick out about a 1/4 inch to help locate the starter to the block
One question when I turn it on, it sounds a lot and I put it in new because I bought it new cheaply, that's why what I saw when it arrived was that the connector where the ignition positive goes in the starter motor was broken, what would it be, I don't know what's happening or not. It's original I don't understand what it could be I'm crazy now and the starter motor is new I don't know if it's because it's not the original but it slips and it sounds loud and takes a while to start crashing the bendix help me
I think till 1969 be caus that is when a 350 block served as a 327cu in and also a 350 cu in that is when I think that change came into play
To add more confusion to the mix, starting around 1994-95 on the last of the TBI 350s came with a smaller direct drive starter that was still for 168 tooth but to use that starter properly on an early block requires a special set of starter bolts with a larger shank that GM performance and dorman offers. Same for the later vortec 4.3,5.0, and 5.7 use a very small gear reduction starter that works well but also requires the special starter bolts with the larger shank size, if the wrong bolts are used you can have starter alignment issues and it won't properly support the starter. But for a budget mini starter with a 168 flywheel, using a factory starter for a 96 and up vortec 350 works great and gives a lot more room for header clearance and is much lighter than the old school starters.
SD250/5mt starters are the ones you describe from the 90s that are direct drive.
PG250/pg260 are the gear reduction ones (pg260 being the best)
SD300/10mt (the old heavy ones) came in HIGH TORQUE and normal variants. The high torque is heavier, bigger(mostly longer) as is visually different. BOP engines to my understanding came with these but I could be wrong on that.
Hey I need your help I’m having the same issue
@@jovonsavage4298 the bolts from Chevrolet performance is part #12338064. You can cross reference that number to a dorman part and get them thru a local auto parts store or you can buy directly through a Chevrolet dealer. These bolts are for using the later 94 and up starters on the old style blocks(has the fatter shoulder for the metric starter but the old SAE thread size). Some blocks depending on bolt hole depth and depending on if the starter has been milled or re machined may require 1 or 2 washers on the bolt to not bottom out.
would a block be milled on the starter pad..?@@briang4470
You are missing a starter there is another starter with a cast iron nose cone with all three holes and for blocs from 68 to about 72 use it in some applications the reason I know this I have had two engines that require that one with a 168 tooth flex plate and it moves the starter closet to the flex plate by 30 thousandth of an inch if you don’t use it grinds and sounds like hell
I have also found the gear drive that was eating my 168 tooth flywheel has 9 teeth which is staggered so I ordered a another staggered starter with 11 teeth gear drive hopefully that will fix my issue due to no amount of no shims or small medium or large has changed 3.5 hours of shimming changed
Did you get your issues figured out?
HOW DO I SPECIFICALLY GET THE INFO ON EXACTICALLY WHAT I AM NEEDING WITHOUT ALL ADS INTERRUPTING. I AM SPECIFICALLY ASKING ABOUT a 1992 Chevy 350 fit a 1984 older style starter
Does anybody happen to know the part numbers for example the starter i have that keeps binding up is a 3510s so what part number do i need to tell the parts place cause we all know they need a specific vehicle
Preciate your video, I have a 1979 chevy 350 i got a new starter yet it engages and locks up i had a mech come check it out he said the starter has too many teeth - ok its just a 350 starter how many teeth should the starter have its a str8 bolt pattern not the diagonal what gives?
You could have a very unusual problem I don’t understand but if it’s engaging and locking up it just sounds as if you need to shim it which is pretty standard practice, and starters come with shims. There are probably some UA-cam videos out there that can help you with the clearance you need.
However, I did buy a cheap mini starter on eBay once, and no matter what I did that thing would grind. (Tried it on two engines) Replaced it with a higher quality part and that solved it.
As far as I know they are all the same tooth count on the starter spur
I literally just went through this 5 or 6 weeks ago and it has been a learning curve to say the least.
I am using a 1963 283 with a 1987 astrovan borg Warner t5 trans (I want to cruise at modern freeway speeds) the astrovan has a weird spline count (i think 24 teeth) and used a 11 inch clutch.
The 283 when I bought it was disassembled but had a flexplate and I couldn't find a used flywheel so I ended up buying a flywheel for a 1969 Chevy 327 I think on RockAuto. I used a caprice or Impala (I don't remember other then it was a full size) for the flywheel and starter, the clutch kit was a performance goofy looking puck thing from RockAuto that came from the astrovan clutch choices page
I was so confused by all of this and the internet just made it more confusing and I am still not done.
I still can't find the dust shield for a T5, i bought one that claimed it was for all 168 tooth bell housings but it definitely doesn't fit the (metric?) t5 lower half of the bell housing
So now I guess I am going to make one (it can't be that hard I don't think lol) I want to fire my engine up so bad, I did rings bearings, valves and wedged a pretty big cam in it so I am excited to hear it make noise.
The next thing I got to figure out how you are supposed to properly shim a Chevy starter, i did figure out that Chevrolet s have a rear support for the starter that bolts the back of the starter to the engine block supposably that will keep the starter from breaking the nose cone off I know years ago when I sold car parts at what today is O'Reilly Auto parts are so numerous Chevy GM starters with the nose cone broken I always figured it was from improper shimming but the starter I guess needs a support bracket. I found one on eBay brand-new I think it was seven bucks shipped to the house. You probably could make one but I had never seen one to replicate it. .
My other thing I got to figure out isn't starter related but I got to figure it out to before I can start it I don't have the canister filter assembly (I would rather run it if I could find one) so I bought a mr. Gasket spin-on conversion but I don't know what is supposed to be up inside the block if anything so I haven't bolted that on either yet, the mr. Gasket instructions are terrible at best and they don't do a real good job illustrating how it all goes together.
I like the challenge of this stuff but I went SBC headaches, at this point I wish I would have went nailhead or some oddball V8 like a Rambler or Studebaker.
After I finally get it all figured out the next challenge will be the pedal assembly as I eant them to go through the floor but man that little A frame is so tight for room especially with the t5 having an external slave cylinder.
There is a lot going on here, but I was addressing the gen 1 sbc... as soon as you get into the mid 80's there more parts that can be made to work with even more variables.
Shimming is not that big a deal. Bolt the starter in, pull the gear out with a screwdriver, the gap between the peak and valley of the engaged gear should be .020-.030 (a paperclip wire). if they are jammed together add a shim and try again. if its working and not making any grinding sounds... you are good.
as far as the rear starter bracket... know of them... never actually seen one. never had a problem.
this is the thing about the ole small block chevy.. people think they are "easy". its still a 40-50-60-70 year old motor, with nuanced differences that cause you to learn via headache and process of elimination. if you were going through this on an early nailhead, the process would be the same. But information would be more scarce, parts more rare and expensive, dead ends would be more common and longer.... and if you blew it up breaking it in or showing off...good luck finding another. for some the cool is irreplaceable but to me its too stressful to drive an engine that feels irreplaceable.
@@betweenthesharksgarage
I really don't mind the learning curve. I have been messing with cars since I was 14ish and I am now 44, there isn't anything on a vehicle I am afraid of doing... What is different on a real Hotrod (not a 50s cruiser or a 60s barge is it is a hodgepodge of parts and figuring how to make it all work together.
I mean a model A is pretty crude and as much as I say i am building a Hotrod the reality is I am building a streetrod that has the look of a Hotrod but something you actually want to drive more then 20 minutes, so new brakes, a cheap 8.8 ford axle, that 5 speed trans are all "late model" parts meant to make it fun but safe and reliable, the SBC is from the golden age of and they look so cool with the oil fill pipe and the script valve covers and an old school generator.
I have wanted this truck since I was 13 years old (probably longer) and I wanted to build it , the only bad thing is my friends are car guys but they aren't as hardcore as you or I so I can't really pry information out of them so everything has been done thus far by reading or watching videos like yours.
By the way thanks for the shimming information that will be this week's project as I want the engine and trans to be 100% done and ready to go. I still got the starter oil filter assembly, trans dust cover and generator. Today I was going to rebuild a generator to knock that task out if the way and as I disassembled it i realized that somehow the armature is bent (I guess now I now why it was in a dusty garage and not on the car it came off of lol). Again just another challenge.
Your helping keeping me motivated because you're not to much farther along then me and we are building similar rides so I can steal your knowledge here and there
I feel your pain, I have invested an abundance of money and time into my 79 El Camino, and I just want to be able to drive it again. I'm hoping once I've swapped the starter,all systems are GO. Everything time I fixed something, something else would become a problem, requiring repair or replacement. Good luck, hope you're up and cruising very soon.
@@darkwolf4962 it's just part of the car hobby. I just wish the auto parts stores actually sold quality parts. There is nothing worse than replacing something and then having to replace it again a few months later.
Good luck on your ride. Just keep chipping away at it and your get there.
1966 is what I’ve sern
I had to drill out my 1974 400sbc block to install a mini torque starter.They do make a bracket but I choose the scary way.That god I drilled it out correctly lol.
Thank god.
You are either A braver man than I…. Or perhaps equally as cheap and impatient as I am
So if you have a 168 tooth flex plate you would use the offset bolt pattern starter ? And for the 153 tooth flex plate you would use the straight pattern design starter ?
I think that’s the rule of thumb
I've got a 1972 C10 pickup with a 350, and the starter bolts to the bell housing. What I can't find out is whether it has a 153-tooth or a 168-tooth flywheel. But given that when I installed the new one I got that same whirring noise you describe, I have a bad feeling that it's a 153 and that I bought a starter for a 168.
this is curious... three bolts into the bellhousing? I thought there was only one option for that style. what transmission is in it...3 speed cast iron? there are two options here, either the flywheels are different diameters so if you have an inspection plate you can measure... if the new one matched the old one and the old one worked, then your new starter might bad out of the box, it would mean the starter is spinning but the solid is not firing the gear out there.
@betweenthesharksgarage The new one appears to match the old one. Fortunately, this morning, I got a lead on a local shop that can rebuild the old one for me in a couple of days. I'll be taking the replacement back to the auto parts store for a refund, and I'll ask them to test it first.
@betweenthesharksgarage you were right. I got the rebuilt starter into it and it fired right up. Took the replacement starter back, and when they tested it, it was bad. I also discovered that in addition to the bolt holes in the bell housing, there are the more common two bolt holes in the block, so if I ever have to replace the starter again, I'll have more options.
I think till 1969
Do the two starters use the same bendix?
i think so... but i am not sure maybe someone else can confirm
I have a engine block that is drilled for both off set bolts and side by side bolts how is this explained
It is my understanding that all blocks that were drilled 58 and up were drilled for both starter offsets. Meaning you could use either the 153 tooth flywheel starter and bell housing combination or 168 tooth fly wheel starter and bell housing combination.
My 72 engine only has offset, I just put the 153 flywheel on it. Now trying to find a starter that will work. Might have to change my setup
@@benpatten5220Try a hi torque starter for a 96-97 C10 5.7. I had same problem on 65 327 with 153 tooth flywheel. Some of the problem was aftermarket starter are just not the same as OEM. Anyway, the 96 starter fit, worked great, no grinding. Maybe that will help.
Ended up drilling and tapping the extra hole. Got it close enough to straight to work
The one that bolts to the transmission - would it have to be an early power glide if it’s an automatic?
You didn't do your home work one is Pontiac a d other chevy a d both m r
open nose namely big block starter
One question when I turn it on, it sounds a lot and I put it in new because I bought it new cheaply, that's why what I saw when it arrived was that the connector where the ignition positive goes in the starter motor was broken, what would it be, I don't know what's happening or not. It's original I don't understand what it could be I'm crazy now and the starter motor is new I don't know if it's because it's not the original but it slips and it sounds loud and takes a while to start crashing the bendix help me