Kylo didn't 'turn' he was 'turned' by Snoke. Abrams himself says that Snoke had been targetting him since he was a baby, practically. He essentially brainwashed him for years. And it didn't help that mum was more interested in politics and dad buggered off to be a smuggler.
consider...anakin was born a slave and feared for his mother. never knew his father. shes tortured to death by tusken raiders. is that even comparable to han leaving for a pack of smokes? bot trying to be an asshole but looking fo a legitimate reason for ben solo to turn to the dark side.
Ummm what about simple pressure? His dad is a war hero. His mother the leader of the Resistance. And his uncle the Master of the Jedi Order. He can't live up to those expectations. Until he learns of Grandpa.
Personal opinion here, I think you got it all wrong. Kylo Ren's fall is in no way at all similar to Vader's, if anything it is actually quite the opposite ... Anakin Skywalker was crushed by arrogance, but also by jealousy : as he grew up with his mother for way longer than it is recommended for a Jedi trainee, unlike most Jedi he fears the loss of those he cares about. And it is through love that he was corrupted, as he sought to obtain more power because he thought himself capable of keeping those that he loved from any harm, provided that he was given the means to. To Vader, the Dark Side was a means to an end before becoming the only thing he had left in life. On the opposite, I think Kylo Ren is born from frustration, that came from a feeling of abandonment. His parents' constant disputes and lack of attention for him, the fact that they *sent him away* to train under his uncle's tutelage (who had to take distances from him as well to fill his role of Jedi Master), all that created a void in him. And as such he created an idol with the darker identity of his grandfather, after his heritage was unwillingly revealed to him. He wanted to identify with Darth Vader because he thought of him as a man who didn't need bonds, for all he needed was power - hence what is perceived as lust for power, he believes that if he becomes powerful enough, he will no longer feel this black hole in his heart. And I guess his mother wouldn't have told him about the persona of Anakin Skywalker, which is why his reference would be the Darth Vader persona. He was looking for an anchor point, a place where he felt he belonged, and that's how Snoke managed to seduce him, offering him a vision, and giving him importance. It was lack of attention and care for him , and a desire for acknowledgement that led to his fall to the Dark Side - it can be seen in episode VII in which he craves Snoke's approval, but Hux's as well, under the cover of displays of authority .. And that's why I think most people can relate to Kylo Ren, because today many younger people are neglected in a similar way by their families, and could definitely end up in crime only to feel acknowledged and respected.
I'm annoyed that it took me until you were mentioned on Collider for me to subscribe & I've missed all your videos. Excellent work. You seem like a good guy too. Well done! 👍
Make video on Kylo Ren turning to the light side and Rey turning to the Dark Side for Episode VIII and what it means for Episode IX and who will die in Episode VIII and IX. This video was great though.
The coolest thing about your channel is that I'm not a fan of theories/opinions/etc. yet your presentations and personality is what keeps me here. So generous about your friends doing things for your slideshows when he doesn't have to. Your theories are also awesome so that's a plus. Great job, you're a rarity.
Parent issues always seem to be a drive for the dark side..Anakin's mother dying, Vitiate father is an ass, Rey has no parents ( which probably be something that will be used to turn her)
dee suggs I more so meant make or break him for how I see him in EP. VII. For instance, if they fuck up Rey's character, I will still like what they've done in EP. VII. But for Kylo it might be different
could the "finish what you started" be referring to Vader wanting to turn Luke to the dark side? That was Vader's main goal in Empire and Jedi. He wasn't hunting Jedi at that point, he was trying to turn Luke. Maybe Kylo Ren wants to finish Vader's quest to turn his son, which is why he so desperately wants the map to be found. Snoke didn't seem to care as much.I don't think Luke will actually go dark though, just that Kylo will TRY and tempt him.
Yeah. Maybe Kylo sees it as Luke's "Destiny" to turn to the dark side. It could work well as a twist I think. The twist probably wont be about a parentage again.
I think why people are saying kylo is suck a weak villain , although we can see he is so powerful with the force , he is struggling, and he's not menacing like the other villains because we can relate to him. Feeling like you have everything but nothing, or feeling nobody understands you are things that normal humans feel, and it's weird to see a villain struggling with our everyday problems, but maximized.
*Clicks his Favorites button as soon as he reaches the end of this... feeling all the more for Ben/Kylo due to the offered explanation.* Great job. This would really make it all the more tragic if Ben/Kylo doesn't ultimately find peace.
What if Kylo is like a double agent. I mine Vader through aside the Dark Side in Episode 6 to save Luke. Maybe throughout episodes 8 and 9, Kylo will begin to show more grey Jedi traits.
I believe that Kylo is working for the Light Side and has gone undercover on behalf of the Skywalkers to get close to Snoke and eventually destroy him. The only way to gain Snoke's trust was to kill his father, Han Solo (remember that Solo let Ren kill him). Kylo is upset with what he is doing but knows he is working for a greater good :)
+Alex G237 I think you're bang on the money. " I will finish what you started" is a reference to Vader bringing balance to the force by destroying the Emperor. Kylo Ren is masquerading as the dark side and when he confronted Han Solo he said he didn't think he was strong enough and needed his fathers help. Han said "Anything" knowing Ren would kill him to further convince Snoke that he had turned to the Dark side.
+Ned Flippers Meh, I dunno. "Show me again, the power of the darkness" doesn't sound like something a good guy would say. Also, he places his helmet in a pot of his enemies ashes when he's not wearing it. That's pretty fucked up. Killing Lor San Tekka, too? I dunno man. It just doesn't sound realistic.
You should also know that Snoke was literally messing with Ben/Kylo's mind since his early childhood, if not his birth, and given Ben Solo's great connection to the Force, he was pretty vulnerable. It's been also awknowledged that Han and Leia gave him a quite unstable parenting, busy as they were with their own things (Han's need to not stay put somewhere, Leia's need to fight for freedom), which helped to make him even more vulnerable to Snoke's manipulations. Also, its plausible that, while messing with the child's mind, Snoke exacerbated his feelings of abandonment and Kylo's frustration with the still forming New Republic, grooming him to have the ideals Snoke agreed with, and further alienating him from his already unstable family.
Luke sent Ben on a mission to destroy Snoke, but for the mission to be successful Ben had to truly fall to the dark side to fool Snoke. Anakins force ghost helped Luke and Ben by teaching him the ways of the dark side. Luke disappeared and lost contact with Ben, losing control of the situation. Ben, at this point Kylo Ren, became lost between the light and the dark. This is why Kylo Ren wants to find luke so badly.
Why anyone ever thought that the destruction of the Sith would bring "Balance" to The Force is something I'll never understand. Balance is achieved when the Light and Dark work in harmony. Since this is a practical impossibility for the Jedi and the Sith, it stands to reason both would have to be "Destroyed" or at least attenuated for harmony to prevail. That being said, a light champion would need a dark counterpart, and if Luke's side of the family is light, then it makes total sense that Leia's side of the family balance him with the dark. Perhaps the lesson of Anakin Skywalker is that the two cannot exist harmoniously whilst trying to destroy one another. So they diverged, into Luke and Leia.
I don't know if it's intentional or if it's just the delivery, but I always took the line "Your son is gone. I've destroyed him." as if Kylo Ren is talking bigger than he is. The words just sound hollow, like he knows the words, and knows what they mean, but that he hasn't truly internalized it, or that he doesn't really understand the gravity of having destroyed himself. Compare it with Vader in Episode VI, when he says "That name no longer holds any meaning for me." He knows what he's saying, and exactly what impact it will have. Vader's not trying to stand up to his father as a rebellious teenager and say things that will irk him, he's telling Luke that he understands what Luke is trying to do, and he would be foolish to continue trying. I just think it's interesting the difference between a father telling a son, and a son telling a father.
Very good video once again! All of this makes sense too. You are quickly becoming my favorite theorycrafter on UA-cam, logical arguments, understanding of the saga and storytelling is the way to go.
+A guy with a pony picture so he'll get called a fag obama is the darkest sith lord ever. vader gave us the death star kylo gave us starkiller base and obama gave us obamacare. shit if trump got elected and was able to repeal obamacare hell be the greatest jedi EVER.
+Daniel Martinez Your last name is Martinez and you support Donald Trump?! I'm sorry the education system has failed you. Either that or someone dropped you on your head more times than you can count. But then that's the problem isn't it?!
My guess as to why he turned to the dark side is since he was such a force sensitive being because he was Anakin's grandson and Luke's nephew that's why Snok pursued him. After brainwashing him with promises of unlimited power and control of his enemies similar to that of Vader (similar not greater) Kylo killed his fellow Knights and started leading the First Order. As well since it could be a nod to how Anakin became Darth Sidious' apprentice Kylo became Snok's apprentice. And he also assumed that Vader was still on the Dark Side and he wants to finish what he started that's why he became a sith lord because he acknowledged the potential power. He didn't know that Vader had turned back, and that's why Kylo constantly feels the pull to the light. And I have a feeling eventually he will turn back, maybe in his last moments like Vader did.
Thank you both for all the work you do making these videos. They are always entertaining and informative and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say what you do is appreciated.
" I will finish what you started" is a reference to Vader bringing balance to the force by destroying the Emperor. Kylo Ren is masquerading as the dark side and when he confronted Han Solo he said he didn't think he was strong enough and needed his fathers help. Han said "Anything" knowing Ren would kill him to further convince Snoke that he had turned to the Dark side.
You saying all of these about Kylo Ren makes me understand him a lot more. I can definitely relate to him about wanting someone to understand him. I also understand that feeling of abandonment that he felt as well. Anyway love your theory clips. Keep up the good work.
For those that are old enough to remember, Episode IV brought Vader on the scene and never really went into detail why Vader turned until the second trilogy came out. I think the second movie is going to deal with why Luke disappeared and what happened to Kylo.
I think that a lot of people can relate to kylo Ren. I know i can. My grandpa was basically a child slave. Who grew up running the farm and defending his mother and younger siblings from his drunken dead beat dad. At sixteen he joined the army and at 17 he fought on Dday. He fought in Europe for 2 and half years. All of this before he even turned 20. My whole life I looked up to him and wanted to be like him. So in a similar way kylo is naturally drawn towards his grandfather.
When Kylo says "I will finish what you started" I think he means finding out how to bring people back from the dead. I believe this because at the end of the force awakens there was a grave, that grave could be Luke's Wife or something. However it could be someone Kylo felt so close to this person that when they died it pushed Ben to become Kylo to bring back this person. However this is not got a lot of evidence I think it would be a twist that Kylo is so much like Vader he didn't even realise it.
Star Wars is a very personal narrative. Anakin hated the world. He was born into slavery. He hated the senate who allowed it. The corruption, the stupidity. It took his mother from him, his only family. It is ironic that he kept seeking power to change the world, make everyone accountable to him, only to become the slave to his master, Palpatine. Even then, his philosophy did not change. He just had to amass more and more power, overthrow his master, and then he could create the perfect world...One of order and an end to destructive conflict. Except by the time he got there he forgot what that perfection looked like. He forgot why he hated the world so much. Kylo appears similar. He hates the world. He thinks more power will allow him to change it. Live up to expectations. He doesn't even think himself a villain, ultimately. Just his own hero with really bad impulse control issues. But what connections does he have left? Does he care about family? What is driving this need for power?
People are digging too much with the "Kylo Double Agent" theory. While Kylo is a complex character, I seriously doubt he is a double agent or anything like that. It just would NOT make ANY sense! The new generation of Jedi were Luke/Kylo's best chance at defeating the remnants of the Empire/Dark Side, why the fuck would Kylo destroy all of it? He was a kid when he betrayed Luke, so don't tell me "He was smart enough to know the Jedi would fail..." etc. I truly believe he's just a guy with serious self-esteem and daddy issues. Snoke came along, gave him an opportunity to seize power and also have a father figure in his life to guide him.
Elsie: My own theory is that after his sister or cousin (Rey) disappears, he grows cold and angry constantly snapping at his parents' and uncle and Snoke used this anger within him to start to manipulate him to go to the dark side. This is similar to how Palpatine used Anakin's anger at the jedi and the fear of losing Padme for his own plans.
If you asked my opinion about why Kylo Ren turned to the dark side, I'd give you the following explanation. Because he was a jedi student who choose to turn to the dark side. When the first order became a new threat, Kylo Ren joined them like Vader joined the Empire. Perhaps he thought if he truly followed Vader's footsteps, he would be able to destroy the First Order and Snoke from within. But he got lost within himself, which he tells his father before killing him. That is why he let Rey survive during their duel on Starkiller base. He held back, knowing she's his sister and she would be the only one that can redeem him. I believe Kylo Ren was able to extract the information about Luke out of her head. He even says...I see the ocean, I see the island. But he held back and pretended that she was stronger then him. Once he tells Snoke about her abilities, Snoke commands him to bring her to him. Perhaps this was Kylo's plan all along. He and Rey before Snoke, taking him out. But, then she escaped of course. All Kylo's choices were his own, nobody knows what he's planning. But all this is speculation...what do you think?
I get the feeling that there is a specific exchange with Luke that pushes him to make the dark side leap ... Something we have no details about yet. Maybe a conversation about ideology, or perhaps Luke looked down on him for something he felt was right. Maybe, Luke has turned to the dark side and Kylo is acting as a double agent to defeat Snoke. The point is we really can't say what circumstances truly led to his shift to the dark side. He may want to finish what Vader started but that doesn't explicitly mean being an authoritarian. Vader also began a mission to end the rule of the Sith when he chose to turn away from the dark side and kill the emperor - his mentor.
When I watched The Force Awakens what I took away from it about Ben Solo was that he was an angry kid living in the shadow of a famous family who found empowerment and a sense of personal identity in an alter ego crafted by yet another darkside Svengali who showed up at just the right time and seemed to understand and have all the answers. Snoke probably didn't spend years cultivating an innocent-seeming relationship with Ben the way Palpatine did with Anakin but I believe it was the same story just set at a different pace.
'Finish what you started.' He is a double agent. He is finishing what Vader started and destroy the dark side from within. Snoke feels the light within him and it scares Kylo so obviously, because Snoke may discover his real mission. 'Afraid you will never be as strong as Darth Vader.' Not power of ability necessarily but the ability to destroy Snoke when the time comes rather than cower away from his true mission in fear.
i think your explanation is right on point with everything thats been revealed about kylo ren. i agree with the father theory. seems like loss or disappointment with a parental figure causes kylo and anakin to both have deep seeded fear of loss and abandonment and parental issues. great video.
Kylo: Rey, there is something that you need to hear before you are destroyed. Rey: What, you're my father? Kylo: No. I am your father's brother's sisters' cousin's roommate. Rey: So what does that make us? Kylo: Absolutely nothing. Spaceballs said it, an I'm calling it. that's my theory.
Your best analysis to my taste, so far! It had this effect Star Wars movies have, and which is the most valuable characteristic of Star Wars to me (and to GL, btw): they make you think about yourself. Keep going the good work!
Kyllo Ren wants to be like his grandfather, and Darth Vader was one of Darth Sidious's many apprentices that served him. Kyllo will never really rule like his grandfather had never done, and Snoke is why. Snoke is doing exactly what Sidious did, and is rather effective also. The only way I see Kyllo ever turning back to the light, and that is Rey. Thus implying that I believe Luke Skywalker is not Rey's father, but that she is Palpatine's granddaughter. See @TheStupendousWave explanation about it. Rey will be the light that Kyllo needs, and draw him back to the light at some point in the trilogy. This act will bring balance to the force and Snoke and the First Order. I am hoping something like that happens so we see who Snoke takes on as an apprentice, and Ben Solo returns to the light. My tryhard theory post. :3 Your videos are pretty sweet man, never stop tia.
The novelisation of the movie reveals that Ben had been manipulated by Snoke since birth. Leia sensed/knew it, but she never told Han anything about it.
I like your videos, I've watched them all, some more than once... very pleasing, keep the good work up!
8 років тому
It all will be very interesting if Rey turn out to be his cousin. Because we could all see how he was Luke's favorite and then the center of attention change when Rey is born. And as much he sees her as a rival, they also had good time together and she was someone who emphasizes with all the pressure they had on their shoulders. So it's a very complicated love and hate relationship. And if you add to the theory that was Kylo that left Rey on Jakku (as shown in another video on this channel), it builds various layers of complexity.
Maybe Snoke promised him that there is a way to meet his grandfather. But that it only is possible with the power of the darkside. Since Star Wars is a poem, this will easily reflect on the prequels.
I feel as when kylo killed han thinking han is the reason he still has a pull to the light side in him I think when he killed han he realized he screwed up and the light shined on him but then when chewie yelled he quikly snapped out of it but still has a pull.
I like the psychological perspective, everyone else seems to just use dumb facts, but this is actually finding logic in it, thanks for a lot to think about :)
What if Snoke isn't alive? Like he's became one with the force, like that of Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin? He could appear in the dreams of a young Ben Solo? Something to think about...
I feel like Kylo is quite an interesting character as usually you would see a follower of the lightside have an unquenchable thirst for the dark, while Kylo follows the dark side yet he still has a strong pull to the light. I personally think this means he would be quite a strong Jedi as his connection to the lightside is still there even after killing his dad.
Watching this now that The Last Jedi is out, you were spot on, Vader and Kylo both wanna rule the galaxy. And seeing how Kylo may be that much closer to doing just that, I feel like his struggle with the light will be heavily touched upon in episode IX.
Found you recently and have enjoyed watching your videos :) Interesting, insightful and informative :) Keep up the good work! Needless to say, you got my sub :)
people are saying that similarly to how rey touched the saber ren touched vaders helm and maybe got some kind of flashbacks too the whole unmasking of vader in retrun kind of symbolises the end of vader so maybe kylo's head has been fucked by the helm and he never knew that vader turned to the good side at the end
i always thought that Ben in his childhood idolized his father Han, but for being a strong force sensitive his parents send him to luke, which made him feel abandoned and betrayed, so he grow to hate the jedi and resent his fathers
Kylo grew up in a dysfunctional home with two very busy parents. He was bereft of love and positive reinforcement from his parents, but he received the attention he craved from someone else. Kylo is the typical adult who still has a child like mentality, trying to please everyone and prove himself.
I think you should do a video on the possibility that Anakin didn't fulfill the prophecy when he killed Sidious. And that his fulfilling the prophecy is in having children and that either his children, or his grandchildren in Ben, or even maybe Rey. Because in the prophecy it states that he was to destroy evil. Not necessarily Darth Sidious. Thanks man, Love your stuff!!
Its simple, Han wouldn't give him the keys to the Millennium Falcon.
+sean t LOL, wouldn't you turn to the darkside if your father never let you drive his new ferrarri?
this was the best laugh ive had all day.
+sean t LOL
Lol
+sean t There are no keys to the Millennium Falcon numbnuts..
He turned to the dark side because he found out uncle Luke kissed his mama
Sounds legit.
😐
+Fern Jaroensriwanit He found the slave pictures of his mama in his Dad's bedside cabinet.
+Fern Jaroensriwanit Well, technically She Kissed Him. Doesn't make too much difference though.
Technically, "his mama" kissed "uncle Luke".
jedi training + puberty = faliure
This night... your boner will fall.
luke skywalker is something else
Kylo didn't 'turn' he was 'turned' by Snoke. Abrams himself says that Snoke had been targetting him since he was a baby, practically. He essentially brainwashed him for years. And it didn't help that mum was more interested in politics and dad buggered off to be a smuggler.
janesgems7 actually, Han was a racing pilot post-Galactic civil war. Plus Han didn't return to smuggling until after Ben turned to the Dark Side
consider...anakin was born a slave and feared for his mother. never knew his father. shes tortured to death by tusken raiders. is that even comparable to han leaving for a pack of smokes? bot trying to be an asshole but looking fo a legitimate reason for ben solo to turn to the dark side.
Ummm what about simple pressure?
His dad is a war hero. His mother the leader of the Resistance. And his uncle the Master of the Jedi Order. He can't live up to those expectations.
Until he learns of Grandpa.
Lord OZ Yh that makes sense
Rebekah Seager grandma was badass
That's a lame reason. In canon he turned ebcause his parents didn't love him enough in the novels...guy bad writing.
That the dumbest decision han leia ever made
Still feels like a shit reason. Like you would go so far for that?
Personal opinion here, I think you got it all wrong. Kylo Ren's fall is in no way at all similar to Vader's, if anything it is actually quite the opposite ...
Anakin Skywalker was crushed by arrogance, but also by jealousy : as he grew up with his mother for way longer than it is recommended for a Jedi trainee, unlike most Jedi he fears the loss of those he cares about. And it is through love that he was corrupted, as he sought to obtain more power because he thought himself capable of keeping those that he loved from any harm, provided that he was given the means to. To Vader, the Dark Side was a means to an end before becoming the only thing he had left in life.
On the opposite, I think Kylo Ren is born from frustration, that came from a feeling of abandonment. His parents' constant disputes and lack of attention for him, the fact that they *sent him away* to train under his uncle's tutelage (who had to take distances from him as well to fill his role of Jedi Master), all that created a void in him.
And as such he created an idol with the darker identity of his grandfather, after his heritage was unwillingly revealed to him. He wanted to identify with Darth Vader because he thought of him as a man who didn't need bonds, for all he needed was power - hence what is perceived as lust for power, he believes that if he becomes powerful enough, he will no longer feel this black hole in his heart. And I guess his mother wouldn't have told him about the persona of Anakin Skywalker, which is why his reference would be the Darth Vader persona.
He was looking for an anchor point, a place where he felt he belonged, and that's how Snoke managed to seduce him, offering him a vision, and giving him importance. It was lack of attention and care for him , and a desire for acknowledgement that led to his fall to the Dark Side - it can be seen in episode VII in which he craves Snoke's approval, but Hux's as well, under the cover of displays of authority ..
And that's why I think most people can relate to Kylo Ren, because today many younger people are neglected in a similar way by their families, and could definitely end up in crime only to feel acknowledged and respected.
I'm annoyed that it took me until you were mentioned on Collider for me to subscribe & I've missed all your videos.
Excellent work. You seem like a good guy too.
Well done! 👍
+Robbie Thanks for subscribing!
+The Stupendous Wave it would make for interesting conversation if you would be a guest on Collider Jedi Council
+The Stupendous Wave Hey I have a question.
+The Stupendous Wave I subscribed cause of Collider too
+The Stupendous Wave I will subscribe to you if you subscribe to me
I just want to give Kylo a big hug
So did Han.
+perry theplatypus lol
+perry theplatypus that just made my day lol
+perry theplatypus 10/10
+Moon Light03 h3 i think he (i) rather wants a blowjob
You forgot to say that Luke is Kylo Rens uncle
+BlameItOnMyAids yea lol. :)
+BlameItOnMyAids there could be a major plot twist though, no one saw Vader being Luke's dad coming
+BlameItOnMyAids The only dipshits there are, are the ones who think its fact that Lukes her father xD
Cuthbert Muckley .._.. it says it in the movie directly...
+BlameItOnMyAids No it doesnt
terrific video ! Keep up the significant work ;)
+TheReal MadMax Thanks! I will:)
+The Stupendous Wave , your videos are very insightful and informing. You may be great at " verses " videos, try it sometime.
Make video on Kylo Ren turning to the light side and Rey turning to the Dark Side for Episode VIII and what it means for Episode IX and who will die in Episode VIII and IX. This video was great though.
+Alexander Lopazan hahahaha a female Sith/Ren HahahahahahaHAHAHA I CAN'T STOP LAUGHING OMFG XDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
That would make a really cool video
+AtDiT whats so funny about that? ever heard of asaaj ventress?(pretty sure i spelled that wrong sorry)
Timothy VanWyhe She wasn't a Sith :)
Randomguytrololo Is this canon or legends?
Kylo is the most relatable character in the new trilogy by far.
that is SO TRUE
So a cry baby with daddy issues?
Yeah, you find one of those in nearly every family. Spoiled child with great power...
I really relate to him because i struggle with the good and bad with myself. Darth Vader is more iconic but Kylo Ren is a more interesting character.
spoiled? So because he wanted to be with his family hes spoiled? what kind of a person are you?
Kylo Ren is my new favorite darksider. I think you feel relatable to him sometimes and his power could be on another level.
My question is why doesn't Kylo Ren care about Palpatine and does he know Vader turned back into Anakin, or is there more to it
It's because they had cookies
+Conor Burke And free food!
it's cuz they had Darkside pussy for him and and everybody knows that's the best pussy in the galaxy and also cookies
+Conor Burke it was the capes man
+Pedro Caballero THE CAPES!!!!!!
+Conor Burke family guy. lol
The coolest thing about your channel is that I'm not a fan of theories/opinions/etc. yet your presentations and personality is what keeps me here. So generous about your friends doing things for your slideshows when he doesn't have to. Your theories are also awesome so that's a plus. Great job, you're a rarity.
When you mentioned Kylo having daddy issues I suddenly heard the song "Daddy wasn't there" from Austin Powers and Goldmember lolz
Parent issues always seem to be a drive for the dark side..Anakin's mother dying, Vitiate father is an ass, Rey has no parents ( which probably be something that will be used to turn her)
The next films will make or break Kylo Ren's character.
+Racist Bassist You don't say.
The same could be said for perhaps, EVERY other character that is still alive this far
dee suggs I more so meant make or break him for how I see him in EP. VII. For instance, if they fuck up Rey's character, I will still like what they've done in EP. VII. But for Kylo it might be different
+Racist Bassist its reah not rey
MasterRiley06 Is derpy no, it's Rey. Source: starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Rey
He played himself
+dflowers30 W
He's not on the pathway to more success
+Key Maker the key is the dark side
+Key Maker he masturbated? all men do silly
I think we're getting an Animated series based in between Return of the Jedi & Force Awakens...
+Say What Again i Dare you i Double Dare you! I agree, I can't see Rebels lasting much longer. Possibly 2-3 more seasons maximum.
Your channel has grown so much. Thanks for continuing to bring us great Star Wars content over the years
could the "finish what you started" be referring to Vader wanting to turn Luke to the dark side? That was Vader's main goal in Empire and Jedi. He wasn't hunting Jedi at that point, he was trying to turn Luke. Maybe Kylo Ren wants to finish Vader's quest to turn his son, which is why he so desperately wants the map to be found. Snoke didn't seem to care as much.I don't think Luke will actually go dark though, just that Kylo will TRY and tempt him.
Yeah. Maybe Kylo sees it as Luke's "Destiny" to turn to the dark side. It could work well as a twist I think. The twist probably wont be about a parentage again.
+Alex I can see it but that is very unlikely. Would be cool though. And then Rey has to redeem Luke. Hmm...
+Saphiria TheBlueDragonKnight I don't actually think Luke will go evil. Just Kylo will try to turn him.
+Alex Surely most Jedi who turn to the dark side do when they are young and not old and wise like Luke? It would be interesting if he did turn though.
Deathbyblackhole I don't think he'll actually turn. I just think Kylo's "finish what you started" could be referring to him trying to turn Luke.
I think why people are saying kylo is suck a weak villain , although we can see he is so powerful with the force , he is struggling, and he's not menacing like the other villains because we can relate to him. Feeling like you have everything but nothing, or feeling nobody understands you are things that normal humans feel, and it's weird to see a villain struggling with our everyday problems, but maximized.
Kylo Ren's turn to the Dark Side could be a movie in itself. Hopefully they'll go back and do it as an anthology film
he probably played "Jedi Knight" and realized dark side gets force lightning
Dude your knowledge of Star Wars is awesome!! Keep up the great work.
you never let us down... your explanations are always on point.
"More tragic"
"Needed a father figure"
"He would have disappointed you as a father"
ITS NOT A PHASE MOM! #Cut4Kylo
*Clicks his Favorites button as soon as he reaches the end of this... feeling all the more for Ben/Kylo due to the offered explanation.*
Great job. This would really make it all the more tragic if Ben/Kylo doesn't ultimately find peace.
What if Kylo is like a double agent. I mine Vader through aside the Dark Side in Episode 6 to save Luke. Maybe throughout episodes 8 and 9, Kylo will begin to show more grey Jedi traits.
I believe that Kylo is working for the Light Side and has gone undercover on behalf of the Skywalkers to get close to Snoke and eventually destroy him. The only way to gain Snoke's trust was to kill his father, Han Solo (remember that Solo let Ren kill him). Kylo is upset with what he is doing but knows he is working for a greater good :)
+Dead pool just wait and see
+Alex G237 I think you're bang on the money. " I will finish what you started" is a reference to Vader bringing balance to the force by destroying the Emperor. Kylo Ren is masquerading as the dark side and when he confronted Han Solo he said he didn't think he was strong enough and needed his fathers help. Han said "Anything" knowing Ren would kill him to further convince Snoke that he had turned to the Dark side.
+Ned Flippers Yes, someone that agrees with me. We'll show these non-believers.
+Ned Flippers Meh, I dunno. "Show me again, the power of the darkness" doesn't sound like something a good guy would say. Also, he places his helmet in a pot of his enemies ashes when he's not wearing it. That's pretty fucked up. Killing Lor San Tekka, too? I dunno man. It just doesn't sound realistic.
+Alex G237 Not to mention his temper tantrums, his betrayal of Luke, his whole "Sith fanboy club" AKA Knights of Ren.
Man I was here at like 200 subscribers, now look! Congrats man I knew you would blow up
You should also know that Snoke was literally messing with Ben/Kylo's mind since his early childhood, if not his birth, and given Ben Solo's great connection to the Force, he was pretty vulnerable. It's been also awknowledged that Han and Leia gave him a quite unstable parenting, busy as they were with their own things (Han's need to not stay put somewhere, Leia's need to fight for freedom), which helped to make him even more vulnerable to Snoke's manipulations.
Also, its plausible that, while messing with the child's mind, Snoke exacerbated his feelings of abandonment and Kylo's frustration with the still forming New Republic, grooming him to have the ideals Snoke agreed with, and further alienating him from his already unstable family.
Luke sent Ben on a mission to destroy Snoke, but for the mission to be successful Ben had to truly fall to the dark side to fool Snoke. Anakins force ghost helped Luke and Ben by teaching him the ways of the dark side. Luke disappeared and lost contact with Ben, losing control of the situation. Ben, at this point Kylo Ren, became lost between the light and the dark. This is why Kylo Ren wants to find luke so badly.
Why anyone ever thought that the destruction of the Sith would bring "Balance" to The Force is something I'll never understand. Balance is achieved when the Light and Dark work in harmony. Since this is a practical impossibility for the Jedi and the Sith, it stands to reason both would have to be "Destroyed" or at least attenuated for harmony to prevail. That being said, a light champion would need a dark counterpart, and if Luke's side of the family is light, then it makes total sense that Leia's side of the family balance him with the dark. Perhaps the lesson of Anakin Skywalker is that the two cannot exist harmoniously whilst trying to destroy one another. So they diverged, into Luke and Leia.
I don't know if it's intentional or if it's just the delivery, but I always took the line "Your son is gone. I've destroyed him." as if Kylo Ren is talking bigger than he is. The words just sound hollow, like he knows the words, and knows what they mean, but that he hasn't truly internalized it, or that he doesn't really understand the gravity of having destroyed himself.
Compare it with Vader in Episode VI, when he says "That name no longer holds any meaning for me." He knows what he's saying, and exactly what impact it will have. Vader's not trying to stand up to his father as a rebellious teenager and say things that will irk him, he's telling Luke that he understands what Luke is trying to do, and he would be foolish to continue trying. I just think it's interesting the difference between a father telling a son, and a son telling a father.
your videos are freaking awesome!
Good observations! Good video!
Very good video once again! All of this makes sense too. You are quickly becoming my favorite theorycrafter on UA-cam, logical arguments, understanding of the saga and storytelling is the way to go.
Kylo versus Luke to quote alien 'game over man'
Amazing video with many great points! Your videos are some of the best on UA-cam
You just described Obama.
Trump*
+Biotrax “BiotraxMC” Games or both? lol
+A guy with a pony picture so he'll get called a fag obama is the darkest sith lord ever. vader gave us the death star kylo gave us starkiller base and obama gave us obamacare. shit if trump got elected and was able to repeal obamacare hell be the greatest jedi EVER.
+Daniel Martinez Martinez huh? of trump gets elected you'll get kicked out the US
+Daniel Martinez Your last name is Martinez and you support Donald Trump?! I'm sorry the education system has failed you. Either that or someone dropped you on your head more times than you can count. But then that's the problem isn't it?!
My guess as to why he turned to the dark side is since he was such a force sensitive being because he was Anakin's grandson and Luke's nephew that's why Snok pursued him. After brainwashing him with promises of unlimited power and control of his enemies similar to that of Vader (similar not greater) Kylo killed his fellow Knights and started leading the First Order. As well since it could be a nod to how Anakin became Darth Sidious' apprentice Kylo became Snok's apprentice. And he also assumed that Vader was still on the Dark Side and he wants to finish what he started that's why he became a sith lord because he acknowledged the potential power. He didn't know that Vader had turned back, and that's why Kylo constantly feels the pull to the light. And I have a feeling eventually he will turn back, maybe in his last moments like Vader did.
Thank you both for all the work you do making these videos. They are always entertaining and informative and I'm sure I'm not alone when I say what you do is appreciated.
" I will finish what you started" is a reference to Vader bringing balance to the force by destroying the Emperor. Kylo Ren is masquerading as the dark side and when he confronted Han Solo he said he didn't think he was strong enough and needed his fathers help. Han said "Anything" knowing Ren would kill him to further convince Snoke that he had turned to the Dark side.
do you guys think we'll get a rogue one teaser on the superbowl?
+EatSleepSuplexRepeat Yeah!
What's the superbowl
+T-Gen The annual championship game of the National Football League
+T-Gen are u serious?
+T-Gen are you serious? if so where do you live
You saying all of these about Kylo Ren makes me understand him a lot more. I can definitely relate to him about wanting someone to understand him. I also understand that feeling of abandonment that he felt as well. Anyway love your theory clips. Keep up the good work.
For those that are old enough to remember, Episode IV brought Vader on the scene and never really went into detail why Vader turned until the second trilogy came out. I think the second movie is going to deal with why Luke disappeared and what happened to Kylo.
I think that a lot of people can relate to kylo Ren. I know i can. My grandpa was basically a child slave. Who grew up running the farm and defending his mother and younger siblings from his drunken dead beat dad. At sixteen he joined the army and at 17 he fought on Dday. He fought in Europe for 2 and half years. All of this before he even turned 20. My whole life I looked up to him and wanted to be like him. So in a similar way kylo is naturally drawn towards his grandfather.
When Kylo says "I will finish what you started" I think he means finding out how to bring people back from the dead. I believe this because at the end of the force awakens there was a grave, that grave could be Luke's Wife or something. However it could be someone Kylo felt so close to this person that when they died it pushed Ben to become Kylo to bring back this person. However this is not got a lot of evidence I think it would be a twist that Kylo is so much like Vader he didn't even realise it.
Vader needs to tell his spoiled little grandson he's into his 30s he needs to stop throwing childish temper tantrums
Star Wars is a very personal narrative. Anakin hated the world. He was born into slavery. He hated the senate who allowed it. The corruption, the stupidity. It took his mother from him, his only family. It is ironic that he kept seeking power to change the world, make everyone accountable to him, only to become the slave to his master, Palpatine. Even then, his philosophy did not change. He just had to amass more and more power, overthrow his master, and then he could create the perfect world...One of order and an end to destructive conflict. Except by the time he got there he forgot what that perfection looked like. He forgot why he hated the world so much.
Kylo appears similar. He hates the world. He thinks more power will allow him to change it. Live up to expectations. He doesn't even think himself a villain, ultimately. Just his own hero with really bad impulse control issues. But what connections does he have left? Does he care about family? What is driving this need for power?
People are digging too much with the "Kylo Double Agent" theory.
While Kylo is a complex character, I seriously doubt he is a double agent or anything like that.
It just would NOT make ANY sense!
The new generation of Jedi were Luke/Kylo's best chance at defeating the remnants of the Empire/Dark Side, why the fuck would Kylo destroy all of it?
He was a kid when he betrayed Luke, so don't tell me "He was smart enough to know the Jedi would fail..." etc.
I truly believe he's just a guy with serious self-esteem and daddy issues.
Snoke came along, gave him an opportunity to seize power and also have a father figure in his life to guide him.
Elsie: My own theory is that after his sister or cousin (Rey) disappears, he grows cold and angry constantly snapping at his parents' and uncle and Snoke used this anger within him to start to manipulate him to go to the dark side. This is similar to how Palpatine used Anakin's anger at the jedi and the fear of losing Padme for his own plans.
this video was very thorough in explanation... good job!!
If you asked my opinion about why Kylo Ren turned to the dark side, I'd give you the following explanation.
Because he was a jedi student who choose to turn to the dark side. When the first order became a new threat, Kylo Ren joined them like Vader joined the Empire. Perhaps he thought if he truly followed Vader's footsteps, he would be able to destroy the First Order and Snoke from within. But he got lost within himself, which he tells his father before killing him.
That is why he let Rey survive during their duel on Starkiller base. He held back, knowing she's his sister and she would be the only one that can redeem him. I believe Kylo Ren was able to extract the information about Luke out of her head. He even says...I see the ocean, I see the island. But he held back and pretended that she was stronger then him.
Once he tells Snoke about her abilities, Snoke commands him to bring her to him. Perhaps this was Kylo's plan all along. He and Rey before Snoke, taking him out. But, then she escaped of course. All Kylo's choices were his own, nobody knows what he's planning.
But all this is speculation...what do you think?
I get the feeling that there is a specific exchange with Luke that pushes him to make the dark side leap ... Something we have no details about yet. Maybe a conversation about ideology, or perhaps Luke looked down on him for something he felt was right. Maybe, Luke has turned to the dark side and Kylo is acting as a double agent to defeat Snoke. The point is we really can't say what circumstances truly led to his shift to the dark side. He may want to finish what Vader started but that doesn't explicitly mean being an authoritarian. Vader also began a mission to end the rule of the Sith when he chose to turn away from the dark side and kill the emperor - his mentor.
You've gained 50k Subs since I started watching you, congrats! love your vids dude!
When I watched The Force Awakens what I took away from it about Ben Solo was that he was an angry kid living in the shadow of a famous family who found empowerment and a sense of personal identity in an alter ego crafted by yet another darkside Svengali who showed up at just the right time and seemed to understand and have all the answers. Snoke probably didn't spend years cultivating an innocent-seeming relationship with Ben the way Palpatine did with Anakin but I believe it was the same story just set at a different pace.
'Finish what you started.'
He is a double agent. He is finishing what Vader started and destroy the dark side from within.
Snoke feels the light within him and it scares Kylo so obviously, because Snoke may discover his real mission.
'Afraid you will never be as strong as Darth Vader.' Not power of ability necessarily but the ability to destroy Snoke when the time comes rather than cower away from his true mission in fear.
+George Mizel i have same feelings
Darth Vader died when he killed palpatine so, no that doesn't work ( also I mean metaphorically, he didn't actually die while killing him)
Great videos man keep the great work up. :)
i think your explanation is right on point with everything thats been revealed about kylo ren.
i agree with the father theory. seems like loss or disappointment with a parental figure causes kylo and anakin to both have deep seeded fear of loss and abandonment and parental issues.
great video.
Kylo: Rey, there is something that you need to hear before you are destroyed.
Rey: What, you're my father?
Kylo: No. I am your father's brother's sisters' cousin's roommate.
Rey: So what does that make us?
Kylo: Absolutely nothing.
Spaceballs said it, an I'm calling it. that's my theory.
Your best analysis to my taste, so far! It had this effect Star Wars movies have, and which is the most valuable characteristic of Star Wars to me (and to GL, btw): they make you think about yourself. Keep going the good work!
Kyllo Ren wants to be like his grandfather, and Darth Vader was one of Darth Sidious's many apprentices that served him. Kyllo will never really rule like his grandfather had never done, and Snoke is why. Snoke is doing exactly what Sidious did, and is rather effective also. The only way I see Kyllo ever turning back to the light, and that is Rey. Thus implying that I believe Luke Skywalker is not Rey's father, but that she is Palpatine's granddaughter. See @TheStupendousWave explanation about it. Rey will be the light that Kyllo needs, and draw him back to the light at some point in the trilogy. This act will bring balance to the force and Snoke and the First Order. I am hoping something like that happens so we see who Snoke takes on as an apprentice, and Ben Solo returns to the light. My tryhard theory post. :3 Your videos are pretty sweet man, never stop tia.
You were spot on with this🤯
I love this analysis. Beautifully explained and articulated.
The novelisation of the movie reveals that Ben had been manipulated by Snoke since birth. Leia sensed/knew it, but she never told Han anything about it.
I like your videos, I've watched them all, some more than once... very pleasing, keep the good work up!
It all will be very interesting if Rey turn out to be his cousin. Because we could all see how he was Luke's favorite and then the center of attention change when Rey is born. And as much he sees her as a rival, they also had good time together and she was someone who emphasizes with all the pressure they had on their shoulders. So it's a very complicated love and hate relationship. And if you add to the theory that was Kylo that left Rey on Jakku (as shown in another video on this channel), it builds various layers of complexity.
Maybe Snoke promised him that there is a way to meet his grandfather. But that it only is possible with the power of the darkside. Since Star Wars is a poem, this will easily reflect on the prequels.
This is a good and plausible explanation. Good on you :)
Excellent spins...subbed.
Great video dude!
Thanks Anthony for the great thumbail
Nope, not a busy schedule, Eat, Sleep, School, Computer REPEAT
Your channel is awesome! SUBSCRIBED.
This adds a lot of depth to the character of Kylo ren and finally explains what Vader started
Great video!
I feel as when kylo killed han thinking han is the reason he still has a pull to the light side in him I think when he killed han he realized he screwed up and the light shined on him but then when chewie yelled he quikly snapped out of it but still has a pull.
I like the psychological perspective, everyone else seems to just use dumb facts, but this is actually finding logic in it, thanks for a lot to think about :)
Awesome video, thank you!!
I wonder in the next one when Luke and Kylo Ren meet if Ren will say "when I left you I was but the learner. Now I am the master."
What if Snoke isn't alive? Like he's became one with the force, like that of Yoda, Obi Wan and Anakin? He could appear in the dreams of a young Ben Solo?
Something to think about...
Thanks for the videos man! I love them. Great job!
I love all of your videos, they're so interesting.
I feel like Kylo is quite an interesting character as usually you would see a follower of the lightside have an unquenchable thirst for the dark, while Kylo follows the dark side yet he still has a strong pull to the light. I personally think this means he would be quite a strong Jedi as his connection to the lightside is still there even after killing his dad.
Watching this now that The Last Jedi is out, you were spot on, Vader and Kylo both wanna rule the galaxy. And seeing how Kylo may be that much closer to doing just that, I feel like his struggle with the light will be heavily touched upon in episode IX.
Nice vid stupes!!
+RaptorRex 2917 did u just call him stupid?
Daniyal Shah no. me and some of his other friends call him steps as a nickname (short for stupendous)
RaptorRex 2917 Ok
anyone else see the two adults and child painting on the wall at 1:08? that's kylo's private quarters! he still thinks about his parents!
Found you recently and have enjoyed watching your videos :) Interesting, insightful and informative :) Keep up the good work! Needless to say, you got my sub :)
people are saying that similarly to how rey touched the saber ren touched vaders helm and maybe got some kind of flashbacks too the whole unmasking of vader in retrun kind of symbolises the end of vader so maybe kylo's head has been fucked by the helm and he never knew that vader turned to the good side at the end
You are getting close to 100,000
Great vid! You just earned yourself a subscriber :)
Cheers Anthony!!
i always thought that Ben in his childhood idolized his father Han, but for being a strong force sensitive his parents send him to luke, which made him feel abandoned and betrayed, so he grow to hate the jedi and resent his fathers
Kylo grew up in a dysfunctional home with two very busy parents. He was bereft of love and positive reinforcement from his parents, but he received the attention he craved from someone else. Kylo is the typical adult who still has a child like mentality, trying to please everyone and prove himself.
Hey stupendous when you said ashes at the end the it made me think maybe those ashes Kylo put his mask in were actually Darth vaders ashes
I think you should do a video on the possibility that Anakin didn't fulfill the prophecy when he killed Sidious. And that his fulfilling the prophecy is in having children and that either his children, or his grandchildren in Ben, or even maybe Rey. Because in the prophecy it states that he was to destroy evil. Not necessarily Darth Sidious. Thanks man, Love your stuff!!
Anakin says the same thing to padme in attack if the clones that their should be one ruler who is wise and actually gets things down
The Solo family was definitely not a happy one. JJ even said Ben Solo grew up in a broken home (like JJ himself), or something along those lines.