Ocean Theory, Penumbra Phantasm, and the Song of the Sea

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  • Опубліковано 12 січ 2025

КОМЕНТАРІ • 102

  • @askerror1987
    @askerror1987  6 днів тому +12

    So like literally a week before this video came out apparently it was pointed out in the comments of the version of Penumbra that I’d been referencing specifically for this video was a (very well made) recreation of the Sound Test version. I did not find out about this until AFTER my video was already published.
    Which means that the water noises weren’t in the actual version that Toby Fox had made………. oops :/
    That doesn’t discount like the other 90 percent of the video just know that the Penumbra discussion right at the end is apparently now inaccurate. I was under the impression at the time that it was an accurate source (and this is why I maintain that proper crediting is so important on UA-cam)

  • @keaton5101
    @keaton5101 7 днів тому +123

    6:29 The quote is:
    "Tra la la. I am the riverman.
    Or am I the riverwoman...? It doesn't really matter.
    I love to ride in my boat. Would you care to join me?"
    There is no "misgendering" the riverperson. They explicitly said it doesn't matter. This isn't a Kris situation, you actually can call them whatever you want.

  • @lemonesence0
    @lemonesence0 3 дні тому +3

    dude ur voice and audio is perfect for these kinds of videos it’s very nice to listen to

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  3 дні тому +1

      That’s very sweet, thank you! I’m trying to get the music-to-voice balance a bit better but I’m pretty happy with the progress I’ve been making the past few months

  • @misadique845
    @misadique845 7 днів тому +157

    I’m out here at shadow's edge, straight up shattering it. And by “it” haha, let’s just say, my twilight reverie

    • @tripleconsonant
      @tripleconsonant 7 днів тому +9

      real

    • @catfunked
      @catfunked 7 днів тому +3

      @@misadique845 real

    • @eloise2319
      @eloise2319 6 днів тому +1

      lol

    • @palokyu9891
      @palokyu9891 День тому

      Am I dirty minded, or is this a euphemism?

    • @Rey_Pixels
      @Rey_Pixels День тому

      @@palokyu9891 it’s a *reference* to a poorly written euphemism that became a meme because it was poorly written.

  • @apolloisabnormal1001
    @apolloisabnormal1001 6 днів тому +4

    honestly as someone who has almost drowned multiple times and has a fear of the ocean as well as HATES the sound and feeling of water, it oddly sounds nice when you talk about your own experience with drowning. its oddly comforting to hear someone who shares the same experience and learning im not invalid or alone or feeling this way.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  6 днів тому +2

      I'm so sorry you went through that, but I'm glad that my story could bring some kind of comfort for you. It's hard to walk away from these experiences and there is nothing wrong with you for having been shaken by it.

  • @kalash_fox7049
    @kalash_fox7049 8 днів тому +56

    When I think "Song of the sea" the first thing that comes to mind is the audio test with Gaster's Theme. It sounds like a small part of a song and you hear it right next to the river, maybe it's a connection?
    Edit: it's also the same river with Onion san and River person, so there's at least a 'physical' connection in the game's world.

  • @omniscientomnipresent5500
    @omniscientomnipresent5500 7 днів тому +15

    I think it's more concrete than it seems.
    The reason water and the riverman are so ominous could be because they are inspired by the Styx, the river of death and the riverman is Charon from mythology so actually it's certainly a he. The scene with Frisk is alluding to their first fall who brought them close to death and there's waterfalls and he's falling into water. Well, there seems to be more to water but to focus on the song from the sea:
    Most of Gaster content even though he was clearly planned from the start as shown by 2013 texts, if you look at the files dates, was added only after reaching a next game kickstarter goal. Yes, he acts as a shadow glooming on Alphys, being a *brilliant* (a character trait people tend to overlook as he's also Spamton carreer rival) scientist of whom she learned and whose creations are vital to the underground despite having disappeared and is related to Sans and Papyrus if not themselves, but *even moreso* , he's deltarune teasing, his first quote on Toby site being about the three heroes of legends in wingdings.
    This means the song from the sea who was added in later stages is indeed deltarune foreshadowing and... Toby often puts many clues into foreshadowing and much lead me to believe it's Shyren song.
    Not only she's the only sea related monster with a song or monster with a song at all(beside mtt) but it just doesn't serve to her battle.
    If you learn the song, you can use it to make "Knight Knight" sleep, a monster in the core based on lucifer that uses... sun and moon attacks and whose name "night night" indicating how it falls asleep. That *really* seems like foreshadowing. One could say it's even too on-the-nose despite that I didn't see anyone else but me bring it up?
    Sure, the role of lightbringer (luci-fer) which Chaos King calls us is more related to us the player, with the soul lighting up fountains, seeming to be be created with a light beam when it appears in the game intro, all the "your soul shines on Ralsei/Susie" flavor texts and "the light only you cans see" "the power of [thing] shines within you", Spamton saying he'll see the light (world) if he gets your soul and Kris having worn a devil hairband that is Ralsei, but dark worlds being referred to as dreams and the name being twice Knight, make it almost certain it's foreshadowing mainly the Knight battle. (The dreams quote on Gerson in graveyard confirms if the Knight is a single person, they are older than Gerson so it isn't Kris if someone thinks that)
    Not only Toby jokingly said that Onion-San hadn't much use in Undertale, but Ralsei's main sparing ability is singing and putting foes to sleep. Friendship with Onion-san rewarding the player with an easier way to spare the knight would make sense, not only narratively, but also *gameplay wise* (which most theories overlook). In chapter 2 she's resting her voice, which would also explain you not getting the ability sooner. Also, that wouldn't be the first time she has a secret as in Undertale there's the joke her lower body isn't a beautiful slender siren body just her concert agent with a silly face which Sans talks about in a post.

  • @KyleLyre13
    @KyleLyre13 7 днів тому +52

    Here's some more fuel to the water fire (what?).
    There's a lot of weird stuff associated with these topics. For example, there's a lot of weird info in the Papyrus phone calls. Like that Undyne tells us that swimming up and down the river is the only form of public transportation, and gets indignant about it if you press her, but Papyrus specifically tells you to say hi to Riverperson for him at the same location. Or how in Onionsam's room, Papyrus says "Hum hum hum."
    I also think rain is an important element of the puzzle. The name of Sans' song, Its Raining Somewhere Else, has always drawn my attention, its such an out of place term to me. Goner Kid also has a weird reaction to receiving an umbrella, just before vanishing. The weirdest one, the static that fills Spamton's glasses during his psychosis breaks have blue specks in them, that looks a lot like rain.
    I don't know what to make of any of it, but hope its helpful!

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +16

      Smacks my head a thousand times I KNEW I should have brought up It’s Raining Somewhere Else

    • @coolskeleton2767
      @coolskeleton2767 7 днів тому +10

      @@askerror1987 get back to making video. NOW

    • @KyleLyre13
      @KyleLyre13 7 днів тому +7

      @@askerror1987 There's no such thing as a bad excuse to play Its Raining Somewhere Else

  • @SatireGod
    @SatireGod 7 днів тому +25

    The depths of the ocean is a dark horrifying place with beings we know little about, it’s very similar to the darker than dark places found within deltarune.
    Another weird thing about the ocean is the Bermuda triangle, kinda irrelevant but it’s apparently also called the Devil’s Triangle and triangles are heavily featured on the delta rune symbol, or a parallel to the three heroes created a triangle shape in the legend as they surround and banish the angel’s heaven (probably a stretch though)

  • @sagacious03
    @sagacious03 7 днів тому +11

    9:29 I'm sorry you had to go through that. Listening further, it really does sound hard, & you have my condolencecs.
    Also, the music is kind of quiet.
    Also also, thank you for uploading this interesting analysis video!

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +5

      Aughhhh thank you. Everyone in the last video said the music was TOO loud, I must have overcorrected this time. I’ll get the hang of it one of these days!
      Yeah, it’s a little weird even sharing THAT much about it online, it’s something I usually prefer to keep to myself (for I feel obvious reasons)

  • @SunnLikesStuff
    @SunnLikesStuff 7 днів тому +10

    Also I relate to the almost drowning thing, I freak out if water goes in my ear because that's what I remember most about the experience. It's been a long time since I've even touched a swimable body of water. It's also present in a lot of smaller ways, so I respect you for making this video despite it being uncomfortable.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +5

      It’s a strange feeling, right? How you can grow around that discomfort but it never really goes away…

  • @TheLonelyKirby
    @TheLonelyKirby 6 днів тому +3

    Thank you for the cool content internet boycat!

  • @jacobg8373
    @jacobg8373 7 днів тому +5

    Homestuck? In my Deltarune? It's more likely than you think!

  • @LycanMOON
    @LycanMOON 7 днів тому +5

    9:08
    That one line actually makes me understand this theory way better
    I’m writing a genshin fanfic where one of the main themes is light=imaginary tree=positive emotions and dark=abyss/quantum sea=bad mental health states,so I don’t know how i didn’t see it sooner. my mind often overthinks and is filled with worry so I’m not a huge fan of water myself

  • @ViLLA1NYyy
    @ViLLA1NYyy 7 днів тому +9

    What's the *_deeeeeaaaal_* with that dang ol song from the sea???
    -Jerry Seinfeld

  • @DyxoXinoro
    @DyxoXinoro 7 днів тому +9

    That ending segment makes me wonder something. If the Dark Worlds are about escapism, but the Song of the Sea is something that so far is only tied to the Light World and wherever the fuck the Cliffs are, then that means it must exist in parallel to that escapism. Calling it the "old" song does make me think back to Nostalgia, which could link it to that piano melody Kris likes to play at the Holiday house, but then again that... doesn't feel right.
    And the easy answer is just linking it back to Gaster and say "oh, its just forbidden/forgotten knowledge." But that doesn't quite feel right either. At least, I have a hard time internally justifying there being a direct link between Gaster and Onion, save for maybe some implication that Onion is able to dive into the code, but doesn't understand what it's looking at. But then we open the door to "oh the song of the sea is Dess playing her guitar", which feels a little contrived to me.
    Though perhaps the unknowns are the point? Like its in universe lost media. Something people are aware exists, but can't produce any evidence of. An auditory cryptid who's mystery and implied plot relevance acts as an equal opposite to Ice-E.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +4

      I know this wasn’t intentional at ALL but this comment made me giggle because the cat avatar I use to represent myself in these videos is named Nostalgia

    • @DyxoXinoro
      @DyxoXinoro 7 днів тому +2

      @askerror1987 The more you know~~

  • @blockeontheleafeon
    @blockeontheleafeon 8 днів тому +19

    10:34 Too true. My brain thought the worst of certain aspects many times. More than I'd like to admit.

  • @Davkar.U
    @Davkar.U 7 днів тому +5

    Honestly the water theory is kinda delusional, and man feed me that sweet delirium! This shit fuckin rocks

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +3

      I need to consume the delirium by the spoonful

  • @ordoor
    @ordoor 7 днів тому +16

    7:12 flashbacks to piles of asriel's dust

  • @Matias-fh2hf
    @Matias-fh2hf 7 днів тому +8

    For an image called depth its suspiciously taken from the top of the water

  • @embryodemocracy1275
    @embryodemocracy1275 7 днів тому +5

    Thank you for the inscription music I fucking love that game

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +4

      I have an old script rotting somewhere called “The Deceptive Layers of Inscryption” about how much I loved playing that game… maybe I should dust it off one of these days

  • @tysondennis1016
    @tysondennis1016 7 днів тому +9

    Penumbra Phantasm is probably gonna be used for a major boss.

  • @TheGamerninja15
    @TheGamerninja15 8 днів тому +11

    I personally kinda believe it's a tease to Chapter 4's Secret Boss, revolving around these elements

  • @achilles-413
    @achilles-413 7 днів тому +5

    ooooooh really interesting... always glad to see more max videos!!! great job dude!!!

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +2

      Thank you for your continued support!!!

  • @me_is_zo
    @me_is_zo 8 днів тому +14

    16:05 I know this is a joke, but I'm sure one day, he will find out the password

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +5

      He’s got to get out of the House-like Car Pit first

  • @bengoodwin2141
    @bengoodwin2141 5 днів тому +2

    Something interesting: "Immersion" is both associated with water and with experiencing fiction.
    Alao ouch sorry to hear about your issues with water

  • @MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard
    @MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard 7 днів тому +6

    I looooove your videos so much dude!! but, i just wanna say
    "go back to trying to figure out tiby's bluesky password" had me fucking ROLLING

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +5

      New conspiracy theory Chapter 3-4 is taking so long because Gaster hasn’t gotten access to the Bluesky yet

    • @MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard
      @MarcyTheKindaCoolWizard 6 днів тому +2

      @askerror1987 i adore the implication new chapters can only drop because Gaster has to take over the account to post it himself
      Each new chapter drop Gaster takes over a different Toby Fox account

  • @distantmaniacallaughter8690
    @distantmaniacallaughter8690 5 днів тому

    god your audio sounds like that old ipad i used to play dragon story on as a kid...it is very nostalgic, never change it

  • @marsgreekgod
    @marsgreekgod 8 днів тому +19

    Next quarter ? we don't know more about the date then "this year"

    • @fretzil
      @fretzil 7 днів тому +10

      its probably not going to take the entire year to finish porting and translating, so 3 months into 2025 isnt too unbelievable. I personally think it might be the second quarter, but unlikely to be later than that.

    • @marsgreekgod
      @marsgreekgod 7 днів тому +2

      @@fretzil I mean I agree but we shouldn't state it as fact

    • @lawlmang278
      @lawlmang278 7 днів тому +2

      @@fretzil I mostly agree. The latest news letter actually makes me think we're looking at summer or worse case fall. They don't even have chapter 4 fully translated and they still have to go through PC testing, console certification, box art, ESRB, etc. You could say those things should go relatively quick, but a lot of this is reliant on 3rd parties to do their part.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +9

      This was written with an extrapolation based off of how Toby said it wouldn’t take more than a few months to finish translating everything. Then by the time I realized that was stupid more than half the video was already edited

    • @ethanhawksley9097
      @ethanhawksley9097 7 днів тому +5

      - Completing chapter 4 translation: ~1-2 months (which seems really fucking long)
      - Testing chapter 4 PC: ~1-1.5 months
      - Testing chapter 3+4 console: ~2-3 months
      CURRENT ESTIMATE:
      Mid April to late June

  • @SunnLikesStuff
    @SunnLikesStuff 7 днів тому +3

    If canon, I give dihydrogren monoxide a try

  • @Krispykreme15
    @Krispykreme15 7 днів тому +1

    Your previous penumbra phantasm video was amazing and I learned a lot from it I’m really excited for getting to this one

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +1

      Aaaaa thank you! I hope you enjoy this one too!

    • @Krispykreme15
      @Krispykreme15 5 днів тому

      @@askerror1987just finished the video it was really good!!!

  • @makingtoast5479
    @makingtoast5479 8 днів тому +7

    this better get 1 MILLION VIEWS. good video.

  • @palokyu9891
    @palokyu9891 День тому

    Furina’s story is one of the greatest in fiction

  • @Aksimine
    @Aksimine 7 днів тому +7

    i doubt that penumbra phantasm is the song from the sea because the orca sounds from secret of mana that can be heard in penumbra's intro is typheus' sleeping sounds.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +1

      Yeah that’s why I said it was probably a coincidence ^^’

    • @Grundrisse
      @Grundrisse 3 дні тому

      Oh yeah, I almost forgot Secret of Mana is among Toby's personal top favorite game tracks alongside Mother and the Chrono series.
      Elements from these series will prove relevant in later chapters, I'm guessing.

  • @Davkar.U
    @Davkar.U 7 днів тому +1

    I fell u with the water theory, i almost drowned multiple times when i was younger as a method of self harm( that i didnt realize ) i only stopped after once subsconciously trying to drown( not even swimming straight up walking to the bottom ) in a REALLY bad night in a REALLYYYY bad month, and that
    shit was so random lol, i literally was looking at the horizon in the beach and suddenly was in the ocean, took me some time to even walk close to water at night and just recently finally tried going in, baby steps amyright?

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +1

      I feel for you with the drowning-as-self-harm thing, trust me. I'm glad you seem to be doing better. We never know what our breaking point is going to be until we've actually gotten there

    • @Davkar.U
      @Davkar.U 7 днів тому

      @@askerror1987 awn thanks dude

  • @50millionbees
    @50millionbees 7 днів тому +5

    thank you for singlehandedly making me get into homestuck

  • @coraline2770
    @coraline2770 7 днів тому +1

    Another new deltarune theory it shall sustaine me until the new chapters released thank you

  • @WithASock
    @WithASock 6 днів тому +1

    im not the first person to notice this, but one might see me mentioning it elsewhere since i rarely see it get addressed in theory videos. There is one pretty clear reason kris's skin turns blue, and thats because the style of the dark worlds is that of characters under the glow of a blacklight. i'm not sure how to explain that without pointing at every color choice and going "yeah that happens in UV light" because it all just clearly LOOKS like that's what it's evoking. but essentially its not a mystery why kris is blue. (tho in fairness to anyone who hasnt noticed this somehow, im only certain that this is the intention with 1) the light world characters in the dark worlds because we see both color schemes, and 2) ralsei because his scarf item description calls it red when it is bright rose-- as if blue light has mixed with it's local color.)
    there is enough water and ocean imagery evoked by deltarune that i easily believe that kris's color scheme is ALSO related to that. one decision can for sures be made for two reasons. i just feel it bares mentioning

  • @Joe500TNG
    @Joe500TNG 8 днів тому +5

    I literally JUST finished the other video LOL

  • @dorcusss3693
    @dorcusss3693 7 днів тому +3

    In Undertale's OST resides a song called "But the Earth refused to die", and... you can hear an ocean in the background.
    I hope this comment finds you well, and will help in uncovering the truth.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому

      I need to take the L and start making some sort of corkboard. This is my curse to bear

    • @dorcusss3693
      @dorcusss3693 6 днів тому +2

      @@askerror1987 I haven't seen people talk about this song in their theories. It just got overlooked is all. It happens all the time. We are human, mistakes will happen. There is no curse to bear, don't beat yourself over it. No one is perfect. We learn from mistakes. Instead of seeing it as failure, you can see it as an opportunity to improve.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  6 днів тому +2

      @@dorcusss3693 Don't worry! That comment was made fully in jest. This sort of thing is a marathon, not a sprint

  • @Kthnx2
    @Kthnx2 7 днів тому +3

    hey i love your videos im really enjoying this one so far ok i just have to ask
    how did you find the font for the music cue thingy used in field of hopes and dreams ( 4:45 )
    i searched EVERYWHERE for that, and could not find it i would be ever so grateful if you were to bestow upon me the font name

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +4

      I actually hand-made it because I ran into the exact same problem! I think that enough people have asked about it that I should probably release it for free on my Patreon or something... as for the name, it's just called Field of Hopes and Dreams haha

    • @Kthnx2
      @Kthnx2 7 днів тому +1

      @@askerror1987 HAH that's awesome, yeah that would be cool if you would release it, great work! looks identical to the original minus the letter spacing

  • @MicroTheMicro
    @MicroTheMicro 7 днів тому +1

    youtube be like
    Mentioned people: Toby Fox

  • @HOMESTUCK_CRAZY_NEWS
    @HOMESTUCK_CRAZY_NEWS 7 днів тому +5

    an important element : Riverperson have many links to Alt Calliope, a caped lonely mage with a metanarrative knowledge who can't reveal their name, and can bend space, who help them traverse through the veil
    While Ralsei is Calliope, waited alone hidden in the darkness for their first and only friends arrival, Green then White face , butler outfit, mettanarrative knowledge who can't say too much, gender identity subtext, and maybe with (anti sleeping/sleeping spell)
    and so much more.
    this enforce the idea that Deltarune is post-scratch/pre-scratch Undertale.
    i could continue for hours, but i have a whole channel dedicated to the subject

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +3

      While it’s a fun theory, I’m not much of a fan of linking EVERY decision Toby’s made to a story someone else wrote, even if Toby and Hussie did live together for a time. It would be a really cool idea for an AU though!
      Post scratch Sans but he’s exactly the same…

    • @HOMESTUCK_CRAZY_NEWS
      @HOMESTUCK_CRAZY_NEWS 7 днів тому +1

      @askerror1987 but the beta kids traversed from beta to alpha world, and if sans did that (traverse from one game to another) that explains why Sans know you from Undertale and why there is a suzy in undertale, and why the 2 games talk about similar characters with no memories of their other life. there is a john in alpha and beta but they are born at different times in the timeline changing history. there is an adult looking kris in the undertale intro at a different time in history.
      also that explains why in Undertale patreon Toby Fox proposed to integrate a fightable homestuck troll in undertale.

  • @Blaineworld
    @Blaineworld 8 днів тому +4

    i found your channel recently and i like it :)
    also first

  • @dejavous666.
    @dejavous666. 8 днів тому +2

    water...

  • @beenardbruh9605
    @beenardbruh9605 6 днів тому +1

    Went and checked out the mentioned version of the song, top comment is someone saying it wasn't made by toby fox and is an innacurate midi recreation and the poster agreeing saying they found out months after posting, and saying the waves weren't in it at all, unfortunate eh? Interesting video on the first watch though!

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  6 днів тому

      Augh, really??? Damn, stumbled right at the end there :/

    • @beenardbruh9605
      @beenardbruh9605 5 днів тому +1

      @askerror1987 sometimes there are finish lines we can't cross graciously, but you put up a good run for the rest of the track so it was pretty solid overall I'd say

  • @xcaedes
    @xcaedes 7 днів тому +1

    Yo have you played the Natlan AQ?

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому

      I've pretty much given up on Genshin for a multiplicity of reasons but I DID come back to pull for Neuvi and Zhongli during their joint-rerun banner........ it took like, a year but I got BOTH of them in back to back ten pulls
      I'll need to find some sort of lore video for the Natlan AQ tho I want to know why the fire lady has a motorbike

  • @CyberweaverVT
    @CyberweaverVT 4 дні тому +1

    I ruined the 666 likes

  • @epsilon_psilon
    @epsilon_psilon 7 днів тому +1

    "If we are supposed to banish Heaven, then is the Dark World Hell?"
    That's the exact opposite of what the game is saying. The Roaring is when Darkness overtakes the Light world. Putting everything right again is 'bannishing the Angel's Heaven'. Darkness is Heaven.

    • @askerror1987
      @askerror1987  7 днів тому +4

      I kind of get what you’re saying but your statement doesn’t make complete sense to me. Why would Spamton act like heaven is a place to get TO and a place to grab the attention OF then if he’s already “in” it?

    • @leoperd3487
      @leoperd3487 7 днів тому

      We aren’t supposed to banish Heaven in general, but the _Angel’s_ Heaven. That would mean we’d be banishing the personal “Heaven” of one being in particular, which could be a very bad experience for others. Maybe the Roaring is the “Heaven” of this “Angel” specifically, even though it is most likely some form of an apocalypse.