Misleading Paperwork = Broken Boeing 747
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- On November 7th, 2018, a Skylease Boeing 747 Freighter overran the Runway at Halifax, Canada. The pilots faced misleading paperwork, adverse weather and misconceptions about landing distance calculation. Find out in this video what happened to this Boeing 747 in this rather strange emergency.
Link to the Air Canada Video:
• Air Canada A320 nearly...
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Skylease Boeing 747 Destroyed in Halifax Runway Overrun
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Delighted you covered this Airspace. I've spent more time in Halifax airport than I can recall. Also, I really liked the coverage of NOTAM. I've heard aircrews hate them. Why improving them is not a priority I do not understand. I did not expect a mention of the AC into SFO. But no-one was killed! And NOTAMS was certainly a factor. Thanks for the post.
It was a major balls-up - by EVERYONE in the industry. Piloting under these circumstances is something I'd refuse to do.
* Radios are inadequate - leading to poor comms, misheard instructions and a very real risk of multiple simultaneous transmissions. TEXT MESSAGES have none of these issues and can be re-read by pilots anytime to check what was transmitted.
* COCKPITS are badly designed and do not provide pilots with the information they need at the time CLEARLY
* COCKPITS are badly designed and have controls that are too easily confused (except landing gear lever)
* COCKPITS are badly designed with duplicitous instrumentation using faulty data
* INSTRUMENTS are badly designed with critical flight data appearing among all the other 'sea' of 'small print'.
* ATC should be fully automated.
* Aircraft cockpit windows should not be transparent but a video of the 'real' scene below 1,000ft AGL and above that, a 'starscape' of potentially conflicting 'UFOs' (we don't really care what they are, we just don't want to hit them ! - including individual birds)
It's time planes were wholly autonomous; pilotless. We'd see a major improvement in safety.
Nobody hates NOTAMs at all. They're just occasionally (well, rarely these dats) so cluttered with irrelevant details that seeing the forest from the trees can be difficult. They had 98 messages, maybe half a dozen relevant to them. And a dozen at most that need to be brought to their notice.
@@goodshipkaraboudjanHi Russell. Thanks for the note. It sounds like a low lying win might be a fairly simple filter?
@@roderickcampbell2105 you're right but there are way too many variables. They've got to publish NOTAMs for the sake of every and any operator. From an ultralight that (should read) an area NOTAM to IFR traffic which needs to know the field NOTAMs and area in all airspace, not forgetting VFR ops that might be anywhere. I don't know what the answer is, as for filters though - everyone might be on different pages, perhaps not good. Not sure mate what the answer is mate, all I know is being bombarded with pages of area NOTAMs isn't it. I don't give 5/8ths of a fuck about a real estate agent flying a drone around at 100ft in a suburb 10nm from my upwind turn because if I need to I've got bigger issues at that stage.
And apologies Rod, hi to you also, I am half drunk riding out the floods in Queensland.
Honestly, lmao at the ntsb chairman saying “notams are just a pile of garbage nobody pays any attention to”
Why didn’t traffic control suggest using the longer runway when they knew it was a 747 landing?
Well, it was kind of unfortunate. ATC changed the landing runway to 23 - the 747 was the last aircraft to still land on 14. Instead of offering runway 23 to the crew, the controller just asked "do you have ATIS T and is runway 14 still fine for you?".
The crew said yes but missed the fact that ATIS T included the info that planes were now landing on 23.
@@AirspaceVideos No offense but that should have been in your video.
The Captain should have had enough Landings in Type and Landings at enough Locations where One Four at a mile and a half sounded too short. The change in Runway should also have had him think about Wind direction, something also not in your video.
Easy for me to say, of course. I'm not current and my experience is strictly leisure.
you're probably right, though.
I really respect the way your channel runs. It is reliant on actual knowledge and experience, and you have the right morals to not clickbait! Your thumbnails are straight to the point, look sleek, and catches your attention! I'm certain everyone subscribed to you will be your biggest supporters, and what you do will continue to be respected by me, and other people. We're all still waiting for the algorithm to pick up on this masterpiece of a channel!
Thank you so much, wow!
:D
So glad to see a new video today! My colleagues at FAA will enjoy this morning. Keep up the amazing work!
Shout-out to the localiser - "Always trying to help ... always gets smashed".
):
Ayyyyy, crack open another cold one! \o/
I tell it time and time again: There should be a data link between airplanes and ATC and there should be more automation in general. Pilots should be able to focus on things that a computer can't do. Aggregating information, sorting it, and presenting it in a properly readable way would be totally feasible imho. We're not in the 80s anymore where you just write one line after another and then "good luck" for the pilots to reorder the information to a readable way. This is just not appropriate anymore today...
The NOTAM system totally sucks!! I was a major airline Captain for 30 years and have more than 10,000 hours of 747 time this situation was classic
...I rest my case!
Microsoft flight simulator X ?
I'm surprised that there's no app to expand notams into a more readable format: it wouldn't be a trivial project, but given the regular structure and standard language of the notams, it'd be feasible
Hi Douglas. Now that's something I did not even think of. But your logic is very sound as far I can see. It should work, it will be quite quick and affordable. I'll wait to see if anyone has a rebuttal. If there is one, it better be good :-) Cheers.
Have mercy on the software company that erroneously translates notam incorrectly causing an accident! I wonder if fore flight already does that thought
Glad to see you back man! I hope we'll see more from you in the close future. Amazing work as always!
Really appreciate the fact that you add subtitles to your videos, thank you for that :-)
At 5:51 to 5:55 something weird happened to the captions, though, maybe you can look into that?
That's no way to treat the Queen of the Skies...
Just imagine having to print your email. The text is all caps and filled with weird abbreviations and acronyms. The font is Courier New and there are no distinguishable visual elements whatsoever. 90% of it is spam, but you'll die if you miss the remaining 10%. Once read, the email must be highlighted with a marker pen. Sounds bad? Well, that's NOTAMs for you.
Dude, you are growing! Each time i come back, your videos get more and more views! Super sweet :D
thank you :))
Great sky lease you made the inventor of the TOGA button cry, you happy
Great video. I was especially pleased to see that you included information about the environmental clean up in the aftermath of this accident. So many people think that you just drag the wreckage of an scrap it.
great video as always, finally i can watch a new video instead of rewatching your old ones over and over again!
Interesting case review. I just wonder usually in ATIS the runway in use would have been announced and it probably would have said runway 23 and 14 is in use and pilots would have realized that a longer runway is available
Very interesting and also very well explain
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This video is sponsored by nobody 😂. Keep up the great work. You'll get something coming your way soon
NOTAMs are completely useless, way too cryptic, and led to many many close calls. I don't understand why this useless system is allowed to continue.
Thanks again Airspace !
Thanks
Slick and professional production as always. Well done friend. Interesting incident, glad to hear everyone was okay. That NOTAM format is horrible. Just a massive wall of cryptic text. Today's tech has the capability to make this easier. Like in this example bringing up a visual of the Halifax airport layout (on a tablet) and showing just the small bit of the runway under construction (just like Airspace showed it). At once glance this tired crew would have seen the runway was usable. A more visual style is needed with heavy filtering capability to show the very critical ones first. Same with the performance calculations, using software would be much easier specially when many software suites can show a visual using a dot on the graph you can drag around/input data. So many gotchas in aviation, like a bear-trap waiting to get your leg.
This, yes!
I'm curious as to why redesigning NOTAMS doesn't seem to have been made a major priority by the FAA as yet...? We've seen a definite increase in close-call incidents relating to their unreadability, and it seems like just luck that it hasn't yet caused fatalities (that I know of?)
Is it one of those awful cases where it may take actual fatal accidents to trigger a review...? 😟 (We've seen a lot of that in the workplace regulation space, unfortunately - commercial resistance to cost involved can often retard change until tragedy causes strong enough pressure to force it through?)
Thank you for the video. I like your formats but it would be even more interesting if you could tell us what happened to the pilots afterwards? Thinking especially about the AeroMexico video. Did they lose their jobs? Did the controller get suspended? It would be great to know how the industry takes action against irresponsible and poor performance by its stakeholders.
Thanks :) I know, many would love to know. But due to privacy reasons, names, rulings and fates are often not publicly available.
Many things lead to an accident. You describe very well!
They really have to come up with a better system for NOTAMs.
Reddit could do better NOTAMs than this
They're too busy changing the name so that the alphabet mafia don't get their fee fees hurt.
Awesome! New video. Just have to say that I absolutely love your channel!
thank you!
Another outstanding video! 💛🙏🏼
I build database applications for gas leak inspection projects (checking gas distribution systems for leaks and other abnormal conditions). So making sure data is collected and presented accurately is critical, much like these NOTAMS. Prior to gps tracking and electronic data collection, paper maps were printed, and the surveyor used a highlighter to say what was checked. That blew my mind! Whenever I hear a story involving NOTAMS, that's what I relate it to in my head.
It certainly would be a complicated project to implement and standardize worldwide, but it's DEFINITELY possible, and is all but guaranteed to be better than what they have now. Just as GPS tracked surveyors is better than highlighters LOL
For the most part, the industry IS very good at putting safety first (the effort that goes into investigations is proof of that), which is why it baffles me that this hasn't been rectified already! 🤯
Great that you noted the environmental impact on the site and remediation, something I've often wondered about with air crashes. Any other good resources about air crash environmental clean up?
were the pilots fired after the accident ?
hej, utmärkt beskrivning som alltid!
In my point of view ATC also has responsibility on this accident. Even though the pilots misunderstood the NOTAMS and decided to land on this particular runway, ATC should have provided advice on runway 23 as they know what type of aircraft is approaching. They always provide advice on this.
Farcical Aviation Authority is what I put in a comment on one of Aldo Sterone's videos today. I wonder what the airport's website posted for that runway. It reminds me of corporate email twenty years ago when I would be informed of a closed car parking space at some facility somewhere at the other end of the country. It was obviously mad but management could not or would not manage, which was evidenced by the number of consultants they hired (and I am not talking 'temps" here).
Besides noting runway restrictions in the NOTAMs, wouldn't the available runway information also have been included in the ATIS for Halifax? Presumably, the ATIS information would be more current than the NOTAM, and would indicate to the pilots that the longer runway (although shortened by construction) would be OK for use.
Yes, it would have been, but only after the pilots had started the approach. At that point, one does usually not recheck the ATIS; ATC should give important updates verbally
@@AirspaceVideos Thank you for the clarification.
there is no linked video in the describtion
Really glad they finally updated that antiquated NOTAM acronym! Now it just seems like the actual functionality of the system needs updating too...? 😕 (We've seen a number of recent incidents where airport updates are lost in the poor formatting?)
Tiny Halifax is a graveyard for 747s for some reason
“Notice to Airmen” was changed to “Notice to Airmissions”?! 🎉🎉🎉 That is sooooooo funny
"unfactored" also assumes an emergency condition.
2:22 Is that the correct procedure for connecting a fuel hose ?
No, usually they flip the wing so the fuel can fall by gravity into the tanks, but don't believe me I only make up things.
Couldn't the computers on modern planes make all the needed calculations for take off, landing,etc. 😲
Yes they can. The Pilots failed.
Yes most operators of jets use software to calculate all the performance- take off landing etc. This company apparently was the outlier - too cheap to spend the money to reduce Human Factors distractions. That another pilot had to choose between 2 separate sets of multiple pages and then interpolate columns. Just weird. They could well still be using this instead of reducing gross distractions during a very critical phase of flight. Very tragic, foolish and just cheap.
This is SO VERY TRUE! NOTAMS are basically 1940's technology.
Why? You tell me.....
Couldn't they have contacted Halifax tower and requested the longer runway? it seems like a better way than poring over those NOTAMs.
yes they could have, but they thought it was closed
This video is sponsored by... nobody... haha that was so cute! 😄
NOTAMS look just like assembly language and even me who program a lot and have done so for a long time still can't read and understand assembly. However I dont have to as there are much easier to use languages like C++, C#, Java and Python around so why give a such similarly garbled mess to pilots that looks just like machine code? Isnt there an easier format to use like there is with programming languages? The ways NOTAMs look now is bound to create even more accidents! Question is though, would they still had been able to stop on the other runway as they did so many misscalculations in addition to missreading the NOTAM?
You have the most informative aviation channel available on UA-cam. I would compare your work to Simon and his Aviation Herald web site - top places for accurate information in a world full of noise. Your comprehensive aviation background is OBVIOUS in your analysis and productions. - Respectfully
Thank you so much!
I saw this aircraft (or similar 747s) many times at the Halifax airport. The company lifted lobsters from Nova Scotia to China.
How did he not use 4 x Full Reverse Thrust?
Should have gone around.
Okey hear me out, I work in natural language processing, basically finding patterns in human text. It is very possible to make this better, I mean airport and runway names are consistent? then there are other things like 'closed' so I can see a possibility. Someone pay me haha xD
10:39 Hehe big shovl go brrrrr
The changing of NOTAM is hilarious, and speaks volumes about the mindset within the FAA.
Lucky you. You found something to Bitch about.
...In case anyone cared about some whining passenger in Coach.
FYI, Chicago is pronounced (using German spelling) “schikago”, not “tschikago”. ;)
Might have been better to improve the NOTAM system instead of spending bureaucratic energy making THE BASIS FOR THE ACRONYM more "inclusive"...
While I DO believe it makes a difference, I still find it odd that 14kts or 16mph too fast for an approach speed makes THAT much difference, ESP when we're talkin' about a 747. 🤔🤔
well, look at it from another perspective: it's about 10% too fast, all while approaching a runway that is super short...
It's huge when you take into account that higher speed quadratically increases the kinetic energy of the plane. What may look like a small percentage increase in speed can actually be a huge increase in energy. Landing at 154 knots as opposed to 140 knots may look like a small difference, but it's a 21% increase in kinetic energy.
Tailwind limits on nearly all aircraft is 10kts. This is why using computer software is the safest way to operate EVERY airline. Skylease is known as an outlier, cheapness above all. Pilots have to use judgment about where to touchdown, this Capt was apparently new to the aircraft and the CoPilot and 3rd pilot failed in every aspect of their responsibilities. They failed the tabulations, never made professional callouts that reversers were not all working, that autobrakes were off - simply useless, and unworthy as professional pilots.
@@winzaloft yeah, I can get onboard w/that. Thanks for the reply. ✈️✌️
Feed the NOTAMs into ChatGPT :)
I don´t understand why airports don´t have safety features for exceeding the runway, a simple net that can be shot out of the side of the runways, we have material at our fire station that could keep a firetruck in it even if the truck would run 800km/h. If not for cost issues, at least lives should be worth the price.
A lot of airports have arrestor systems these days with high energy absorbing materials although in my view not enough have them.
a 747 with 77 knots, it would not be so helpful i believe
@@onuremrecanozcan4400 The TSB seemed to think it would have
@@onuremrecanozcan4400 There are microbands that culd slow down a jet inflight, so 77 knots would be no issue at all. It is designed to slow down not put them to a stop immediately.
@@bowlchamps37 And snap bands only cost around 100€ per meter.
Although I agree that the change from AirMen to AirMission sounds silly and unnecessary at first, I think these things matter more than one might realize.
Everybody knows that such words ending with men are already meant to be gender-neutral, yet I would say that they do have a subconscious effect on one's expectations. And it doesn't really harm to do the change, one gets used to the new word after a while.
Anyway, great video as always! And happy to see that there are soon 50 000 subscribers, very well deserved! (more to come for sure 😊 )
Speak to women aviators and you'll see, unequivocally, they don't give a shit about the "inclusivity" of acronyms. Nobody does. It's pure silliness pushed by high-strung, hypersensitive SJWs.
whut
Thanks for the heads up. Now I know why I am having this nagging feeling that airlines are not as safe as they advertise. The economic pressure of profit margin and labyrinthine airport protocols before even getting off the ground makes for poor human decision making in the air.
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@@AirspaceVideos I think this was the most civil exchange I've ever seen on UA-cam. Bravo to both of you.
Read your NOTAMS. Simple as that. It's annoying, not hard.
NOTAM feels just like academic papers, written to make the author look smart instead of being useful. Although a lot worse since it directly concerns safety whereas a paper is just to make someone graduate.
Don't blame pilot mistake, no clear instructions that main runway is back by ATC and it's risky to land a huge aircraft on short runway with such a tail wind.
ATC should have insisted and not give clearance for landing.
What happened to the pilots?
NOTAM really are useless tho. Nobody in the industry is able to design a UX that works?
Yeah, there are soooo many compared to twenty years ago. I can get 100 for a 250 nm flight!
I think it's good that they changed the acronym. Being more inclusive never hurts. But it will take a while to get used to it, that's for sure!
It was completely unnecessary. "Airmen" is already gender neutral
I think it is one of the stupidest things I have ever heard.
@@eat_a_dick_trudeau Then you must live under a rock
Tbh I don't care either way. At this point "airmen" "firemen" "postman" etc. have become gender-neutral
That said, it does no harm outside of making right-wing chuds assmad, so I'm all for it
Of course you do, let me ask you this? Are you college educated? Do you understand simple English? Acronyms ending in men means "men" AND wo"men" already!!!! It's like asking for clarification on the color blue!!! For fk's sack stop the uneducated woke nonsense!!!!
Making the snarky comment about the NOTAM change was beneath your usual excellent work and unprofessional.
But it's also apt because it was a stupid change.
These videos are therapy from the horrific war crimes that Russia is causing.
Kudos to Russia.
Yet another accident caused by autobraking not working. Why the heck don't pilots learn to brake manually every single landing? :V
I appreciate distance and speed in meters , helas the narrator is monotonous and chanting, I do not know how to explain it, but defintely this is “annoying” . I think many amateur actresses around would offer their voice
Well, I find it a bit amusing that you misspell "alas" when criticizing someone's english... but oh well. This is a one man channel, the video was recorded while I had covid and I'm trying my best to improve.