As someone from South Asia, I am not surprised if such things (as the collapse of CRM) happens. In-fact there is NO Crew Resource Management to begin with. . I am from India, but the so called 'seniors' also violating the (may be western concept of) sterile cockpit norms ... below 10000 feet.. too are common. And communal factors (caste/ class/ creed) too often makes one pompous or submissive... ... apart from the usual.. senior versus junior thing. . And yeah.. despite being a reasonably well connected (to the outside world) Country... ..the authorities doing a worse job than a high-school student.. in feeling forced to roll out a gibberish report.. too is not surprising. . Of the fee accounts and reporting of this unfortunate incident... this🤍👌🏽 has been rather well presented and produced to high 💙👍🏼🤍 standards. . Thanks for the same and hope to someday support you financially too.. via patreon or similar. :-)
there's one interesting point i want to add to why what the captain did to the first officer is bad, and it could even be why the captain started messing up even worse. when you correct someone, and then make a mistake yourself, you might feel embarrassment or experience cognitive dissonance between how you saw your own skill versus how skilled you actually are, which will actually make you even MORE likely to mess up. the startle effect of making a mistake after spending so much time belittling someone could be enough to make you question all of your decisions, thus making even more mistakes.
This remembers me of a video from MentorPilot about his role as a flight sim instructor: He sees everything the students do, so trying to "hide" a mistake by the pilot monitoring by subtly nodding the pilot flying into correcting an mistake it in time makes him smile, because such a moment changes the dynamic of a test situation from "don't mess up (individually)" into "I've got your back - where in it together" - which off course is precisely the reality when in the air. Similarly he enjoys when he gets correct by junior first officer - it shows that the junior first officer is actively engaged in his role and that the atmosphere in the cockpit is such that his first officer feels comfortable. As you point out: This becomes a dynamic and culture - which goes the way the can is kicked into.
It’s just such a bizarre sequence of circumstances. Capped off by flatly ignoring the worst alarms you can hear in the cockpit. Regardless what the airline’s policies were, achieving a level of captain for a commercial jetliner is no mean feat. I agree with the psychological aspect. He was probably having other issues too in his personal life leading up to this and it became a toxic mental mix. Probably deflecting by taking it out of the poor first officer. Remember the German wings Lubitz guy.
Yep. Reminds me of an office manager got on me so bad and picking on really small things when I was actually more experienced and she did not understand. Right after I found a 14, 000 mistake of hers. You should have seen her when I showed her. I never messed up more than10 dollars. I ended up leaving and she had a mental breakdown screaming at patients. The doctor had to stop in the middle of performing an eye surgery to deal with her and get her out of the building. The greatest thing is also she lived in a cup of sac and the doctor lived right next door. Had to go through embarrassment and humiliation of running into him all the time. Ha ha
I get the feeling that the captain was a narcissist and intentionally quizzed the 1st officer on things he thought he wouldn’t know just so he could ridicule him and feel better about his own terrible piloting skills.
My beloved father who was an Aircraft Engineer in Airblue; had located the Black box of this aircraft after a search of 3 days on Margalla Hills with his team.
CRM- Crew Resource Management is one of the best concepts I've ever learned about. Even in a check flight, if you're a designated pilot you have EQUAL authority as the captain flying. It's your life too.
So the captain began the flight by trying to make himself look smart by making his first officer look stupid, then ended the flight by flying into a mountain. In my life I have found that people who make an effort to make others look stupid are doing so because they are rather stupid themselves and in making others look stupid, they feel they make themselves look smarter. They will make a special effort to make those they see as smarter than them look stupid.
Another gem of yours, always a pleasure being informed so detailed and calm. Was that "pilot" even a pilot? This unbelievable incompetent, clueless, overwhelmed person had literally no idea what he was doing. Sadly after the "recent" A320 crash of PA (which is even more incompetent and insane) i am happy that certain airlines are not allowed to enter European airspace! They found out that some "pilots" of PA don't even have a pilots license. Just think about that.
Hello Johnny. I also feel the same way. I will only fly BAW, Air France, LFT, United, etc. How horrible. Not enough to value your own or or passengers lives. Ignoring GPWS? A death wish I guess. If the captain had such, go home and put a bullet in your brain. Don't take other with you.
A great tragedy indeed. Thank you for telling this painful story. If only the first officer had not been so intimidated, perhaps many lives would have been spared. Let this be a lesson to us all.
If my theory of suicide by pilot is right, then the belittlement and intimidation of the first officer was part of the plan. The pilot had to make sure the first officer would be sufficiently cowed to not take proper action to save the plane.
Ah the classic 'instead of actually *flying* the plane during critical emergencies, like grabbing the wheel and turning it left, these professional trained pilots would rather fuck with the autopilot settings while the plane crashes into a mountain'
This is among the most maddening, preventable types of accidents. Reminds me of another one where the captain berated a female FO, and then went off the complete deep end about his wife, etc. It didn't end well, either. A similar lack of CRM has caused too many crashes. Hopefully that is changing.
Do you mean that one in Nepal? It was wild: the captain went mad upon a former female colleague who had made a report on him some time ago, and who just happened to be in the air at that moment; and as he was patronizing another female officer who was a traineé right on his side during that flight, besides of all he started to smoke marihuana, messed up everything, and even at the very last moment when he still could save the plane just by aborting the descent, he yet chose stubbornly to land. And of course it was a catastrophy. One of the most insane cases of aviation ever heard about, to my mind. There's some amazing materjal about it on UA-cam.
Oh I remember that I’ve learnt about this incident before. What both makes me especially sad and angry in this case is that they were flying an Airbus, which means they had side sticks instead of yokes. Now, I don’t blame the first officer for this incident. Both in the culture they were operating in and in the whole aviation industry itself, everyone was taught a strong and strict adherence to the chain of command and thus obedience to the captain was trained on all levels. Between that cultural bias and the hours of being trapped in a tiny space being ruthlessly bullied put that poor first officer into a horrible withdrawn state. I know and understand because I’ve experienced something similar… except that I was able to escape. I wasn’t trapped in a tiny compartment smaller than most cleaning cupboards with my bullying boss. I wish I could fully express just how little space that poor first officer had. I work in ground handling and thus whenever I’m on the cleaning team I get to see the limited space several times a week and actually experience it perhaps once or twice a week. I’m a woman of average height and I can only stand fully straight without ducking my head in the entrance and about two or three steps in. Either way I feel for him. But yeah, it’s doubly a shame that captain so thoroughly destroyed that FO’s emotional integrity because he had the means to save the aircraft in a way no Boeing pilot ever could. On the side stick is a “pilot priority” button that gives that pilot priority control. In this case if the FO had pressed and held that button down then the aircraft would have ignored all inputs from the captain side until the FO released the button. Of course the aircraft would have announced that the FO had taken priority audibly when he pressed it, but at that point if the captain wanted control back his only choice would have been to physically attack the FO and force him to let go. I find that especially tragic. He could have taken control over the aircraft and flown it to safety. I should add that’s not the designed intent of that button. As far as I understand it, the button is meant to be used in an emergency to prevent the aircraft being “confused” if the two pilots are moving their side sticks in different directions. But let’s be honest, if the FO hadn’t been so beaten down, he probably would have taken control once the aircraft started the “terrain ahead pull up” warning in order to save himself and the aircraft. The Boeing yokes are connected so one pilot can feel what the other one is doing with the yoke. I don’t know which design is better. That’s way beyond my knowledge as a layperson.
Total psychopath and megalomaniac. Probably had a hit to his ego at home, or somewhere else, and set out to restore his sense of pride, giving the FO a snap quiz he knew they wouldn’t pass, providing the perfect environment to berate them and firmly set the tone for operational decisions at his behest. I know these types. Weak, weak individuals that use psychological shock to unsettle people’s nerves and derail their ability to function or respond normally. This is why HF / NTS / CRM courses are so important. You may not change these types of individuals but if you change the culture you’ll empower the good people to speak up.
Clearly there was more to it than that; the captain had issues, maybe having a psych episode or mildly drunk or wanted suicide; he was not altogether in the right space in his head, somewhat confused Thank you for an excellent video so well narrated and explained
This screams to me of a older guy feeing threatened by the younger pilot and wanting to show everyone that he is still "in charge" and "knows best". Testing the Co-pilots knowledge to try and trip him up, getting him to program the stupid way point approach for no reason but to try and trip him up again, telling the Co-pilot to contradict air traffic control to show he is the "man in charge in this cockpit" Then getting flustered and confused by all the stupid stuff he has done to make the Co-pilot look bad and getting caught in his own trap that he can't get out of without asking for help which he can't do without humiliating himself. What an arrogant idiot.
The relationshiop between a captain and first officer should always be one of complete camaraderie or at least cordial just like a police officer and his/her partner. A lot of cases where the captain or first officer was arrogant or the captain believed he was 100% right always led to some disaster.
Remember this accident, read about it on aviation. Herald and Simply Flying. That Captain completely caused this accident and his behavior was so unprofessional, blood on his hands. Mentour Pilot covered also and Blanco, you have all done a great job breaking this down.
In all probability what really happened was that the captain was incapacitated by hypoglycemia. He had spent the whole night praying on a special religious occassion and had requested the next day off. He intended to fast the next day . He was sent on duty due to a pilot shortage . One of the symptoms of hypoglycemia is having a short temper. Another is loss of situation awareness. He showed both of these traits on this flight. He was probably fasting and the combination of being awake all night and fasting was a fatal one. Sadly the religion excuses a person from fasting when on a journey and allows that person to make up the lost day when convenient. I was Chief of Safety in Pakistan Airlines as well as being a 747 captain and instructor. I banned fasting and flying after two near accidents were reported to me by copilots. The last jet airliner accidents, the Air Blue A321 and the PIA A 320 at Karachi, happened long after I retired but I contacted the Investigation Board and warnings were issued to all Pakistani pilots not to fast and fly. I introduced a form of CRM long before it became an official system. I always briefed my copilot to point out anything he thought I should notice even if it was irrelevant and encouraged other captains to do the same. This captain (when he was in PIA) was not one of my trainees.
.. what a horrific true story That 1st officer is even more guilty than the 'frozen' Cpt. The 1st Officer comprehended what was and was about to happen, unlike it sounds the Cpt., so for the 1st Officer not to have taken control and 'Pull up', in my view makes him guilty of manslaughter, if not murder - he was in full knowledge that everyone, incl himself, was going to die any moment, he had the ability to do something, to at least try, and did nothing but plead. He had the same training as all pilots - in an emergency - FLY THE PLANE.
Less of the "Sir, please Sir" and more "My control!" But I guess that is just the culture. You should really cover PK8303, there is an awful lot unsaid about that, including the delayed gear extension, then the gear retraction just before touch down.
I had been to pakistan a few times and this behavior is not unique to this accident or this airline. Such behavior is very much part of their society and culture. I saw similar thing happening at Hotel check-in counter too. I never trust pakistani pilots they are involved in too many crashes.
If I were the FO and the captain was ignoring terrain warnings, I'd have grabbed the yoke and started flying the plane myself rather than pleading with the captain to do something. He can die if he wants but I'd try to save everyone's lives.
Wow that memorial has a just adding salt to the wound. So basically the final report says: nothing to see here folks. Nothing learnt. Nothing happened.
At some point as a 2nd officer you have to say F*"K deference, seniority and respect, lives (including mine ) are in jeopardy and at least attempt to take over - worry about getting your ass kicked later if your wrong or overstepped the mark.
I understand that the FO should've been the last line of defence, but still, I get the impression that not enough importance is placed on the captain being an asshole, which, ultimately was the reason for this accident imo.
true. The FO was the last line of defense - which is true from a passenger perspective. But for the relatives of the lost souls: This is a management and company culture problem, where the pilot is the main problem and management is the secondary problem for not catching that problem.
It's when we want to show off what we know that we'll be left looking stupid. Definitely the case here, except 150 people paid the price with their life. 😢
Either that captain was suicidal or he had a brain issue "hemorage, tumor, stroke". No other way to explain his actions makes sense. Also no F/O should ever feel afraid or intimidated by his capt, the policy should be if a capt ever acts like that the F/O should be compelled to report it.
Very clear - almost too much so! The horrible sense of doom, that poor FO, that he was so intimidated not to take the controls to the extent he allowed the Captain to fly him and everyone else into a mountain is horrendous.....at least the feckless Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority was eventually brought to task about its slapdash and vague accident report.....
Not a mental health professional but it seems to me that the captain mind was preoccupied with something other than flying the aircraft,he comes across (according to the narrative)as being irritated by the first officer who apparently wasn’t performing the way the captain wanted or expected,there could also have been other reasons for the captain’s harsh criticism of his 2IC,perhaps not the copilot’s behavior or performance but issues with the captain himself,maybe personal,domestic or even a health concern could be affecting the captain’s mental state….at the most critical point of the flight he seemed to be psychologically paralyzed, and unable to make vital decisions meanwhile the copilot is also suffering from a form of paralysis and (inspite of the approaching danger)is incapable of functioning….now you have a cockpit that’s in a state of emotional and mental collapse when immediate action is needed,even when a decision is made it’s the wrong one and far too late…..this is a prime example of why the mindset of the crew is critical and the airline must make all strides to ensure that stable, effective and efficient management system is being implemented by the crew…
Thanks Airspace, well covered, l would have been tempted to rant. Ultimately a sad end. CRM of crucial importance. l'm surprised that no investigation was made of the Captain's flight/ career history. Thanks again for your channel.
Bizarre. Circling approaches flown correctly are fun in a cowboy-sorta-way because it's the only time you're encouraged to do aggressive maneuvers close to the ground. I can't imagine why someone would try to use the autopilot to fly it. Less exciting, no chance of maintaining visual contact, more dangerous, and illegal. Seems like no upside.
Probably because the captain is afraid to fly the plane manually. The first clue is him wanting a circle to land to be flown by the autopilot. The captain's case is probably the same as the captain of asiana airlines in SFO where he lacked flying skills and heavily relied on the autopilot. The same could be said about the Indigo Captain that didn't know how to land her plane correctly.
Sadly, the first officer was more afraid of the captain than he was of dying. If there is only one good outcome, is that the arrogant captain will no longer be flying.
The first officer was a former F-16 fighter pilot of the Pakistan Air Force. Fighter pilots are not known to be timid or shy. In fact quite the opposite. And they are quite "take charge" when the need arises. I wonder what happened here?
How do you treat someone who practically has your life in his hands in a rotten way is beyond me! Same as purposely misrtimming and mishandling your aircraft just to annoy the autopilot!
This kind of happened during my childhood. It was a foggy and a nice morning, our residence was on the opposite side of the hills inside the Pakistan Airforce base which is the main headquarters on the opposite side of the hills. Woke up to helicopters encircling the peak of that mountain with black smoke rising, it was a very grim month for the remainder of the year, back then we had a similar culture which is found in other countries in the west as well where the "seniors are always right" and forces the co pilot into a submissive state. A few years later, we had another incident where Bhojo 737 200 crashed on arrival at OPRN during a rainy night, the copilot was too afraid to take the controls from the captain who had frozen as the aircraft kept stalling and finally crashed, this is a global issue in the aviation industry which is a common denominator in several other crashes around the globe, copilots fear captain to the point where they feel as if they'll risk losing their job upon correcting the captain
@@billpugh58 You missed the part where the USA has a lot of crashes with the same case scenario, easy to place it on culture, watch a few air crash investigations
I think the culture had much to do with the young man’s response or lack of during this tragedy ? He had an innate fear of this man. He was browbeat to the point of feeling useless and angry yet he couldn’t react out of fear. He did nothing to save his life or that the passengers ? He barely was able to ask him pilot the airplane knowing it was going to impact the ground ?
With all of the warnings and the captain not following procedures punch the captain aiming for the temple with your hand or available object to knock him out or kill him. It is your only self-defense to save yourself and your passengers. Sheepish copilots are their own worse enemy. It is a job vs your life.
Based on the way points entered they were going to run into terrain the book shows the distance from way point to runway so why extend it to terrain that is suicide The alarms just reemphacised the fact that the pilot has killed his party .
Absolutely unbelievable incompetence. The captain sounds like a nasty piece of work but additionally the first officer also has a lot of blame here. There were two people in the cockpit and inaction and then wrong actions led to this and both are to blame.
If the captain refused to give up his side stick control the copilot would have a hard time taking sole control if two people are manipulating the side stick control. Even if they fight continually over the red button to get stick priority the captain will win by default.
I don’t care if my life is at stake and my co worker isn’t doing anything to prevent me dying I’m taking things into my own hands. It’s sad that so many of these disasters come from the captains standing behind their humility
ISB chart is clearly depicted the restriction in first place,it means that they did not brief or check it before doing the approach. Too many mistakes in this accident, i feel sorry for all of lost soul.
Same here. If I were sitting in the pilot’s seat doing nothing at all the copilot probably would have landed the plane just fine! These 2 definitely were a deadly combination!
The reason there are at least two human pilots are in an airliner is to make adjustments and decide the best way to deal with adversity. A 100% AI flow airplane may come in the future but for now humans are supposed to be rational and can deal with adverse situations. This 60 year old captain should have been put under scrutiny by his company and listened to his FO instead of his know it all and damn the rules and lie to ATC. Sorry he wasn’t solo in this tragedy. I saw a similar video where an overbearing pilot killed everyone the same way. PIC and FO need respect from each outer.
This is crazy and despicable. Your own life ( never even mind 150+ other passengers on board) but your own life. How intimidated one should be to not attempt to save themselves at least. Knock that crazy captain out and save yourself and others if you clearly see he is wrong. I don’t know if he is worried about his job or jus plain stupid because no job is worth dying for and talking innocent others together with you.
God Rest All Of The innocent Good Human Beings Souls who lost their Earthly Life Times in this awful disaster. God Rest Their Souls Amen xxxxxxx Home To Heaven Amen xxxxxxx With Our Ever Growing Ever Loveing Heavenly Family Amen xxxxxxx
Again another fine example of Pakistani pilots. Same happened with PIA flight 2 yes ago due to pilot incompetence and ego. A right piece of work indeed.
I would like to know the percentage of accidents that occurred at ILS-equipped airports, where ILS was unavailable to the accident plane. I'll take a wild guess that two thirds of them occurred with ILS unavailable to or not employed by the accident plane, either being offline, or not available for the target runway, unusable due to conditions, or whatever.
The first officer was a former fighter pilot of the Pakistan Air Force. Considering that such individuals are generally far more type A and aggressive by training/personality, his passiveness and lack of "take control" attitude is even more perplexing.
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As someone from South Asia, I am not surprised if such things (as the collapse of CRM) happens.
In-fact there is NO Crew Resource Management to begin with.
.
I am from India, but the so called 'seniors' also violating the (may be western concept of) sterile cockpit norms ... below 10000 feet.. too are common.
And communal factors (caste/ class/ creed) too often makes one pompous or submissive...
... apart from the usual.. senior versus junior thing.
.
And yeah.. despite being a reasonably well connected (to the outside world) Country...
..the authorities doing a worse job than a high-school student.. in feeling forced to roll out a gibberish report.. too is not surprising.
.
Of the fee accounts and reporting of this unfortunate incident... this🤍👌🏽 has been rather well presented and produced to high 💙👍🏼🤍 standards.
.
Thanks for the same and hope to someday support you financially too.. via patreon or similar. :-)
Unbelievable. That captain sounds like a real piece of work and sadly over 150 people paid the price
A piece of work alright. People like this disgust me to the core. I've had first hand experience with these dirt bags all my life
Terrifying that because of the Captain's arrogance the FO was more scared of him than his death and the 149 people behind him
there's one interesting point i want to add to why what the captain did to the first officer is bad, and it could even be why the captain started messing up even worse. when you correct someone, and then make a mistake yourself, you might feel embarrassment or experience cognitive dissonance between how you saw your own skill versus how skilled you actually are, which will actually make you even MORE likely to mess up.
the startle effect of making a mistake after spending so much time belittling someone could be enough to make you question all of your decisions, thus making even more mistakes.
This remembers me of a video from MentorPilot about his role as a flight sim instructor: He sees everything the students do, so trying to "hide" a mistake by the pilot monitoring by subtly nodding the pilot flying into correcting an mistake it in time makes him smile, because such a moment changes the dynamic of a test situation from "don't mess up (individually)" into "I've got your back - where in it together" - which off course is precisely the reality when in the air. Similarly he enjoys when he gets correct by junior first officer - it shows that the junior first officer is actively engaged in his role and that the atmosphere in the cockpit is such that his first officer feels comfortable.
As you point out: This becomes a dynamic and culture - which goes the way the can is kicked into.
Michael👍🏼🤍 rightly put.
It’s just such a bizarre sequence of circumstances. Capped off by flatly ignoring the worst alarms you can hear in the cockpit. Regardless what the airline’s policies were, achieving a level of captain for a commercial jetliner is no mean feat. I agree with the psychological aspect. He was probably having other issues too in his personal life leading up to this and it became a toxic mental mix. Probably deflecting by taking it out of the poor first officer. Remember the German wings Lubitz guy.
Yep. Reminds me of an office manager got on me so bad and picking on really small things when I was actually more experienced and she did not understand. Right after I found a 14, 000 mistake of hers. You should have seen her when I showed her. I never messed up more than10 dollars. I ended up leaving and she had a mental breakdown screaming at patients. The doctor had to stop in the middle of performing an eye surgery to deal with her and get her out of the building. The greatest thing is also she lived in a cup of sac and the doctor lived right next door. Had to go through embarrassment and humiliation of running into him all the time. Ha ha
I get the feeling that the captain was a narcissist and intentionally quizzed the 1st officer on things he thought he wouldn’t know just so he could ridicule him and feel better about his own terrible piloting skills.
That is actually textbook narcissism.
Captain was testing first officer mostly about flight experiences
My beloved father who was an Aircraft Engineer in Airblue; had located the Black box of this aircraft after a search of 3 days on Margalla Hills with his team.
oh wow
CRM- Crew Resource Management is one of the best concepts I've ever learned about.
Even in a check flight, if you're a designated pilot you have EQUAL authority as the captain flying. It's your life too.
It’s Pakistan we are talking about!!!
So the captain began the flight by trying to make himself look smart by making his first officer look stupid, then ended the flight by flying into a mountain.
In my life I have found that people who make an effort to make others look stupid are doing so because they are rather stupid themselves and in making others look stupid, they feel they make themselves look smarter. They will make a special effort to make those they see as smarter than them look stupid.
This is a psychological phenomenon known as projection.
Another gem of yours, always a pleasure being informed so detailed and calm. Was that "pilot" even a pilot? This unbelievable incompetent, clueless, overwhelmed person had literally no idea what he was doing. Sadly after the "recent" A320 crash of PA (which is even more incompetent and insane) i am happy that certain airlines are not allowed to enter European airspace!
They found out that some "pilots" of PA don't even have a pilots license. Just think about that.
Not just pilots: Ground crew and ATC were also found to be on fake paperwork. It was a big mess worldwide as all PK certifications were rescinded
wow, has any of the YT guys like Mentor Pilot or 74 done a piece on that?
am I not a YT guy? 🙃
@@were-all-human9427 Yes Mentour has. And this one borrowed quite extensively from that video, sometimes directly copying what was said in that one.
@@abuzuz5800 thanks, ill go check it out, He has soo many excellent reviews I must have missed it in my search.
it's always sad when a crash occurs but it's even worse when you know the reason is something as silly as this; a totally avoidable accident!!
Great Video again :)
Just unbelievable and such a unnecessary accident. Very sad and it makes me angry. RIP to those souls.
Hello Johnny. I also feel the same way. I will only fly BAW, Air France, LFT, United, etc. How horrible. Not enough to value your own or or passengers lives. Ignoring GPWS? A death wish I guess. If the captain had such, go home and put a bullet in your brain. Don't take other with you.
I wouldn't call it an accident. That implies it just happened. This was incompetence. If not murder, manslaughter by the captain.
A great tragedy indeed. Thank you for telling this painful story. If only the first officer had not been so intimidated, perhaps many lives would have been spared. Let this be a lesson to us all.
If my theory of suicide by pilot is right, then the belittlement and intimidation of the first officer was part of the plan. The pilot had to make sure the first officer would be sufficiently cowed to not take proper action to save the plane.
Ah the classic 'instead of actually *flying* the plane during critical emergencies, like grabbing the wheel and turning it left, these professional trained pilots would rather fuck with the autopilot settings while the plane crashes into a mountain'
So true. That's what I was thinking as well. Turn the fucking plane.
The bigger problem was the FO sitting idle as he watched the ‘captain’ fly them all into the ground.
This is horrifying, the company should not be allowed to operator before an external audit or something.
This is among the most maddening, preventable types of accidents. Reminds me of another one where the captain berated a female FO, and then went off the complete deep end about his wife, etc. It didn't end well, either. A similar lack of CRM has caused too many crashes. Hopefully that is changing.
Do you mean that one in Nepal? It was wild: the captain went mad upon a former female colleague who had made a report on him some time ago, and who just happened to be in the air at that moment; and as he was patronizing another female officer who was a traineé right on his side during that flight, besides of all he started to smoke marihuana, messed up everything, and even at the very last moment when he still could save the plane just by aborting the descent, he yet chose stubbornly to land. And of course it was a catastrophy. One of the most insane cases of aviation ever heard about, to my mind. There's some amazing materjal about it on UA-cam.
@@raoulkurvitz6305 both are indian/pakistani pilots so no wonder there
Oh I remember that I’ve learnt about this incident before. What both makes me especially sad and angry in this case is that they were flying an Airbus, which means they had side sticks instead of yokes.
Now, I don’t blame the first officer for this incident. Both in the culture they were operating in and in the whole aviation industry itself, everyone was taught a strong and strict adherence to the chain of command and thus obedience to the captain was trained on all levels. Between that cultural bias and the hours of being trapped in a tiny space being ruthlessly bullied put that poor first officer into a horrible withdrawn state. I know and understand because I’ve experienced something similar… except that I was able to escape. I wasn’t trapped in a tiny compartment smaller than most cleaning cupboards with my bullying boss.
I wish I could fully express just how little space that poor first officer had. I work in ground handling and thus whenever I’m on the cleaning team I get to see the limited space several times a week and actually experience it perhaps once or twice a week. I’m a woman of average height and I can only stand fully straight without ducking my head in the entrance and about two or three steps in. Either way I feel for him.
But yeah, it’s doubly a shame that captain so thoroughly destroyed that FO’s emotional integrity because he had the means to save the aircraft in a way no Boeing pilot ever could. On the side stick is a “pilot priority” button that gives that pilot priority control. In this case if the FO had pressed and held that button down then the aircraft would have ignored all inputs from the captain side until the FO released the button. Of course the aircraft would have announced that the FO had taken priority audibly when he pressed it, but at that point if the captain wanted control back his only choice would have been to physically attack the FO and force him to let go.
I find that especially tragic. He could have taken control over the aircraft and flown it to safety. I should add that’s not the designed intent of that button. As far as I understand it, the button is meant to be used in an emergency to prevent the aircraft being “confused” if the two pilots are moving their side sticks in different directions. But let’s be honest, if the FO hadn’t been so beaten down, he probably would have taken control once the aircraft started the “terrain ahead pull up” warning in order to save himself and the aircraft. The Boeing yokes are connected so one pilot can feel what the other one is doing with the yoke.
I don’t know which design is better. That’s way beyond my knowledge as a layperson.
Total psychopath and megalomaniac. Probably had a hit to his ego at home, or somewhere else, and set out to restore his sense of pride, giving the FO a snap quiz he knew they wouldn’t pass, providing the perfect environment to berate them and firmly set the tone for operational decisions at his behest. I know these types. Weak, weak individuals that use psychological shock to unsettle people’s nerves and derail their ability to function or respond normally. This is why HF / NTS / CRM courses are so important. You may not change these types of individuals but if you change the culture you’ll empower the good people to speak up.
It's textbook narcissism actually
@@Swashbucklebuckle I should probably read a dictionary. I conflate the two often.
Clearly there was more to it than that; the captain had issues, maybe having a psych episode or mildly drunk or wanted suicide; he was not altogether in the right space in his head, somewhat confused
Thank you for an excellent video so well narrated and explained
We want to make elaborate excuses for arrogant bosses, but sometimes it really is just simply that they are bad people.
This screams to me of a older guy feeing threatened by the younger pilot and wanting to show everyone that he is still "in charge" and "knows best". Testing the Co-pilots knowledge to try and trip him up, getting him to program the stupid way point approach for no reason but to try and trip him up again, telling the Co-pilot to contradict air traffic control to show he is the "man in charge in this cockpit" Then getting flustered and confused by all the stupid stuff he has done to make the Co-pilot look bad and getting caught in his own trap that he can't get out of without asking for help which he can't do without humiliating himself. What an arrogant idiot.
@@choc113 Exactly
Doesn’t excuse the hundred of women children men that died due to his blatant EGO.
EXCELLENT review of this NEGLIGENT Captain’s ‘death wish’ flight..
The relationshiop between a captain and first officer should always be one of complete camaraderie or at least cordial just like a police officer and his/her partner. A lot of cases where the captain or first officer was arrogant or the captain believed he was 100% right always led to some disaster.
I seriously do not think it is a Good reference to mention police as role models of how pilots should behave when flying planes do you..
Remember this accident, read about it on aviation. Herald and Simply Flying. That Captain completely caused this accident and his behavior was so unprofessional, blood on his hands. Mentour Pilot covered also and Blanco, you have all done a great job breaking this down.
In all probability what really happened was that the captain was incapacitated by hypoglycemia. He had spent the whole night praying on a special religious occassion and had requested the next day off. He intended to fast the next day . He was sent on duty due to a pilot shortage . One of the symptoms of hypoglycemia is having a short temper. Another is loss of situation awareness. He showed both of these traits on this flight. He was probably fasting and the combination of being awake all night and fasting was a fatal one. Sadly the religion excuses a person from fasting when on a journey and allows that person to make up the lost day when convenient. I was Chief of Safety in Pakistan Airlines as well as being a 747 captain and instructor. I banned fasting and flying after two near accidents were reported to me by copilots. The last jet airliner accidents, the Air Blue A321 and the PIA A 320 at Karachi, happened long after I retired but I contacted the Investigation Board and warnings were issued to all Pakistani pilots not to fast and fly. I introduced a form of CRM long before it became an official system. I always briefed my copilot to point out anything he thought I should notice even if it was irrelevant and encouraged other captains to do the same. This captain (when he was in PIA) was not one of my trainees.
.. what a horrific true story
That 1st officer is even more guilty than the 'frozen' Cpt.
The 1st Officer comprehended what was and was about to happen, unlike it sounds the Cpt., so for the 1st Officer not to have taken control and 'Pull up', in my view makes him guilty of manslaughter, if not murder - he was in full knowledge that everyone, incl himself, was going to die any moment, he had the ability to do something, to at least try, and did nothing but plead.
He had the same training as all pilots - in an emergency - FLY THE PLANE.
Less of the "Sir, please Sir" and more "My control!" But I guess that is just the culture.
You should really cover PK8303, there is an awful lot unsaid about that, including the delayed gear extension, then the gear retraction just before touch down.
I should do 8303 for sure!
I had been to pakistan a few times and this behavior is not unique to this accident or this airline. Such behavior is very much part of their society and culture. I saw similar thing happening at Hotel check-in counter too. I never trust pakistani pilots they are involved in too many crashes.
If I were the FO and the captain was ignoring terrain warnings, I'd have grabbed the yoke and started flying the plane myself rather than pleading with the captain to do something. He can die if he wants but I'd try to save everyone's lives.
Wow that memorial has a just adding salt to the wound. So basically the final report says: nothing to see here folks. Nothing learnt. Nothing happened.
At some point as a 2nd officer you have to say F*"K deference, seniority and respect, lives (including mine ) are in jeopardy and at least attempt to take over - worry about getting your ass kicked later if your wrong or overstepped the mark.
Reminds me of the Indian flight where the airfield they land on a mountain plate/plain, overshooting and going over the end with obvious consequences
Happened twice, Air India Express 812 & Air India Express 1344
I understand that the FO should've been the last line of defence, but still, I get the impression that not enough importance is placed on the captain being an asshole, which, ultimately was the reason for this accident imo.
true. The FO was the last line of defense - which is true from a passenger perspective.
But for the relatives of the lost souls: This is a management and company culture problem, where the pilot is the main problem and management is the secondary problem for not catching that problem.
both are true!
Scary to think that EASA is now pushing ahead with investigations into single pilot Ops for commercial flights. Absolutely fuck that.
@@abingdonboy it freaks me out, too.
This shows how important good CRM is, that captain shouldn't have been in charge of a golf cart.
It's when we want to show off what we know that we'll be left looking stupid. Definitely the case here, except 150 people paid the price with their life. 😢
Either that captain was suicidal or he had a brain issue "hemorage, tumor, stroke". No other way to explain his actions makes sense. Also no F/O should ever feel afraid or intimidated by his capt, the policy should be if a capt ever acts like that the F/O should be compelled to report it.
An ego issue. How dare anyone question his skill or judgement!
Report him in mid-air lol
Very clear - almost too much so! The horrible sense of doom, that poor FO, that he was so intimidated not to take the controls to the extent he allowed the Captain to fly him and everyone else into a mountain is horrendous.....at least the feckless Pakistan Civil Aviation Authority was eventually brought to task about its slapdash and vague accident report.....
Not a mental health professional but it seems to me that the captain mind was preoccupied with something other than flying the aircraft,he comes across (according to the narrative)as being irritated by the first officer who apparently wasn’t performing the way the captain wanted or expected,there could also have been other reasons for the captain’s harsh criticism of his 2IC,perhaps not the copilot’s behavior or performance but issues with the captain himself,maybe personal,domestic or even a health concern could be affecting the captain’s mental state….at the most critical point of the flight he seemed to be psychologically paralyzed, and unable to make vital decisions meanwhile the copilot is also suffering from a form of paralysis and (inspite of the approaching danger)is incapable of functioning….now you have a cockpit that’s in a state of emotional and mental collapse when immediate action is needed,even when a decision is made it’s the wrong one and far too late…..this is a prime example of why the mindset of the crew is critical and the airline must make all strides to ensure that stable, effective and efficient management system is being implemented by the crew…
Very sad story. So messed up.
RIP those who died.
This story was truly tragic. I feel like crying for all those people. May I say that you explained this event extremely well. Thank you
SOO happy to see a new video from you! Please keep them coming! You do such excellent work!
Thank you :) I will!
Wings falling off the airframe is an accident. --- This was involuntary manslaughter. ---
Very welk explained. This is the third docu I saw about this incident but the first time I totally understand it.
Thanks, I'm glad!
My former Pakistani doctor took arrogance to a new level. I fired him.
Sad
Excellent video, as usual! Glad to be supporting on Patreon, and I'd like to encourage others to do so too!
thank you :)
Thanks Airspace, well covered, l would have been tempted to rant.
Ultimately a sad end.
CRM of crucial importance. l'm surprised that no investigation was made of the Captain's flight/ career history. Thanks again for your channel.
Ah yes... "I'm the captain. You better shut up!"
Great video, I've watched a video on Air China 129 a few hours before watching this, so I've had a lot of deja vu moments
The first officer should have just taken control and pulled the wheel back. The captain was a real jackass who got everyone killed.
Nothing new for Pakistani air travel. Sad pathetic state of affairs over there.
Their religion holds a lot of blame for this kind of incident. Nepotism, arrogance, foolishness and total lack of professionalism.
Bizarre. Circling approaches flown correctly are fun in a cowboy-sorta-way because it's the only time you're encouraged to do aggressive maneuvers close to the ground. I can't imagine why someone would try to use the autopilot to fly it. Less exciting, no chance of maintaining visual contact, more dangerous, and illegal. Seems like no upside.
Probably because the captain is afraid to fly the plane manually. The first clue is him wanting a circle to land to be flown by the autopilot. The captain's case is probably the same as the captain of asiana airlines in SFO where he lacked flying skills and heavily relied on the autopilot. The same could be said about the Indigo Captain that didn't know how to land her plane correctly.
Sadly, the first officer was more afraid of the captain than he was of dying. If there is only one good outcome, is that the arrogant captain will no longer be flying.
That captain was a major POS.
YAY Your back i missed your videos plz do more accident investigations plz ty :)
The first officer was a former F-16 fighter pilot of the Pakistan Air Force. Fighter pilots are not known to be timid or shy. In fact quite the opposite. And they are quite "take charge" when the need arises. I wonder what happened here?
How do you treat someone who practically has your life in his hands in a rotten way is beyond me! Same as purposely misrtimming and mishandling your aircraft just to annoy the autopilot!
This kind of happened during my childhood. It was a foggy and a nice morning, our residence was on the opposite side of the hills inside the Pakistan Airforce base which is the main headquarters on the opposite side of the hills. Woke up to helicopters encircling the peak of that mountain with black smoke rising, it was a very grim month for the remainder of the year, back then we had a similar culture which is found in other countries in the west as well where the "seniors are always right" and forces the co pilot into a submissive state.
A few years later, we had another incident where Bhojo 737 200 crashed on arrival at OPRN during a rainy night, the copilot was too afraid to take the controls from the captain who had frozen as the aircraft kept stalling and finally crashed, this is a global issue in the aviation industry which is a common denominator in several other crashes around the globe, copilots fear captain to the point where they feel as if they'll risk losing their job upon correcting the captain
It’s not global, it is clearly cultural, Korea, Japan, Pakistan have all suffered serious crashes through this caste system.
@@billpugh58 You missed the part where the USA has a lot of crashes with the same case scenario, easy to place it on culture, watch a few air crash investigations
I think the culture had much to do with the young man’s response or lack of during this tragedy ? He had an innate fear of this man. He was browbeat to the point of feeling useless and angry yet he couldn’t react out of fear. He did nothing to save his life or that the passengers ? He barely was able to ask him pilot the airplane knowing it was going to impact the ground ?
It is astonishing how people bend to authority when their own life is at stake. What an unnecessary waste of precious human lives.
Great video… keep up the good work sir.
Very good explanation! Though I am not into aviation, find them very interesting!!
With all of the warnings and the captain not following procedures punch the captain aiming for the temple with your hand or available object to knock him out or kill him. It is your only self-defense to save yourself and your passengers. Sheepish copilots are their own worse enemy. It is a job vs your life.
Same thing I was thinking
It's very common is this part of the world.
Why not they put a camera in cockpit with audio recording in all planes?
Excellent video. Thanks for posting.
Based on the way points entered they were going to run into terrain the book shows the distance from way point to runway so why extend it to terrain that is suicide
The alarms just reemphacised the fact that the pilot has killed his party .
Absolutely unbelievable incompetence. The captain sounds like a nasty piece of work but additionally the first officer also has a lot of blame here. There were two people in the cockpit and inaction and then wrong actions led to this and both are to blame.
I think the captain is sick with dementia? Because he seemed confused and did not know how to proceed
If the captain refused to give up his side stick control the copilot would have a hard time taking sole control if two people are manipulating the side stick control. Even if they fight continually over the red button to get stick priority the captain will win by default.
The FO should’ve declared he had control and took his and the flght’s fate into his own hands
Is there a transcript of the cockpit voice recorder? I googled it and found nothing.
There are snippets of the CVR in the final report. You can find the report in the source material on wikipedia :)
When "God" outranks your co-pilot.
I don’t care if my life is at stake and my co worker isn’t doing anything to prevent me dying I’m taking things into my own hands. It’s sad that so many of these disasters come from the captains standing behind their humility
WHOM THE GODS WOULD DESTROY THEY FIRST ENDOW WITH HUBRIS.
This arrogance comes from a culture that believes someone flew to heaven on a winged horse!
HOW SAD
Gross negligence and gross stupidity.
Why was he flying at all?
ISB chart is clearly depicted the restriction in first place,it means that they did not brief or check it before doing the approach.
Too many mistakes in this accident, i feel sorry for all of lost soul.
This is generally accepted as a suicide .
How can they question validity if the voice recorder was available as evidence???
I'm not a pilot, but I'm definitely a better pilot than the captain of that Airblue 202.
Same here. If I were sitting in the pilot’s seat doing nothing at all the copilot probably would have landed the plane just fine! These 2 definitely were a deadly combination!
"Visual hain..." meaning we are visual in english.
Thanks!
The reason there are at least two human pilots are in an airliner is to make adjustments and decide the best way to deal with adversity. A 100% AI flow airplane may come in the future but for now humans are supposed to be rational and can deal with adverse situations. This 60 year old captain should have been put under scrutiny by his company and listened to his FO instead of his know it all and damn the rules and lie to ATC. Sorry he wasn’t solo in this tragedy. I saw a similar video where an overbearing pilot killed everyone the same way. PIC and FO need respect from each outer.
This is crazy and despicable. Your own life ( never even mind 150+ other passengers on board) but your own life. How intimidated one should be to not attempt to save themselves at least. Knock that crazy captain out and save yourself and others if you clearly see he is wrong. I don’t know if he is worried about his job or jus plain stupid because no job is worth dying for and talking innocent others together with you.
God Rest All Of The innocent Good Human Beings Souls who lost their Earthly Life Times in this awful disaster. God Rest Their Souls Amen xxxxxxx Home To Heaven Amen xxxxxxx With Our Ever Growing Ever Loveing Heavenly Family Amen xxxxxxx
Again another fine example of Pakistani pilots. Same happened with PIA flight 2 yes ago due to pilot incompetence and ego. A right piece of work indeed.
I would like to know the percentage of accidents that occurred at ILS-equipped airports, where ILS was unavailable to the accident plane.
I'll take a wild guess that two thirds of them occurred with ILS unavailable to or not employed by the accident plane, either being offline, or not available for the target runway, unusable due to conditions, or whatever.
How about only regarding commercial passenger incidents, just pick a specific area of interest.
RIP poor souls! Such an unnecessary drama! You have been killed by a stupid, stubborn pilot. A shame for all sitting in a jets cockpit.
Good video!
What an absolute disgrace of a man and pilot that captain was.
The first officer was a former fighter pilot of the Pakistan Air Force. Considering that such individuals are generally far more type A and aggressive by training/personality, his passiveness and lack of "take control" attitude is even more perplexing.
The Military wants you to be aggresive and in the same time they won't tolerate insubordination either. So that's the deal. I hope you can understand.
Crimes & Corruption
What is Patreon? I personally don't have money to give & never subscribed to this channel, it just comes up & I Watch.
How many times have we met arrogant and conceited people like this? Too many times.
There was an incident I believe was air Asia where the pilot flew too high and stalled the aircraft and did not recover
Ur telling me we been to the moon but we dont have the tech to have self driving planes
Unnecessary accidents that can easily be avoided
What an absolute jerk… I feel so bad for the 1st officer’s family
2 of my close friends like jewel Hassan Jafri and Hassan Javed lost there lives in this crash a loss that can never be recovered
my condolences, that is terrible 😶
Wow what an incompetent crew.
Air blue never paid compensation to the effected families.
For real?! That is abhorrent behavior!
Company insure competency ,not about simple experience
i saw crash site of this, rip to all the lost souls
I'm from Islamabad Pakistan 💕 thanks for this video ❤️