Effects Summary short version: general: - slow or fast speed goes short, so aim farther from pocket - OB close to cushion goes short, so aim farther from pocket - OB far from cushion goes long, so aim closer to pocket 45 degree approach: - benchmark speed and spin give square hit - less spin goes long, so aim closer to pocket - more spin goes short, so aim farther from pocket shallower angle into 1st cushion (steeper angle into 2nd cushion) goes long: - aim closer to pocket or use less spin steeper angle into 1st cushion goes short: - aim farther from pocket or use less spin long version: 1. general: -- a. less spin goes long, more spin goes short -- b. slow and fast speed go short -- c. OB close to the 2nd rail goes short, far from the 2nd rail goes long 2. midpoint pocket line at 45˚ along the corner-side diagonal: -- a. can find a “benchmark” speed and spin that works -- b. on most tables, natural running spin goes a little long, so pivot aim toward the pocket 3. midpoint pocket line a little closer to 1st rail (a little steeper into the 2nd cushion): -- a. benchmark speed and spin goes long -- b. fix: more spin at small angles from the diagonal -- c. fix: aiming closer to pocket works, moving more with more angle from diagonal 4. midpoint pocket line between diagonal and 1st rail (steeper into the 2nd cushion): -- a. benchmark speed and spin goes long -- b. fix: less spin, or aim closer to pocket 5. midpoint pocket line close to the 1st rail (very steep into the 2nd cushion) -- a. benchmark speed and spin goes long -- b. small changes in spin have big effect -- c. fix: less spin, or aim farther from the pocket with no spin 6. midpoint pocket line a little closer to 2nd rail (a little steeper into the 2nd cushion): -- a. benchmark speed and spin goes short -- b. fix: less spin (even less if closer) -- c. fix: aim farther from the pocket (more if closer)
Supporting Resources: - midpoint parallel-shift kicking system resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/midpoint/ - Top 10 Bank and Kick Shot Aiming systems: ua-cam.com/video/U5Exnt3WDXA/v-deo.html - System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/ - aim compensation when using sidespin: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/compensation/ - bank and kick shot effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/ - how to test out and adjust to an unfamiliar table: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/checking-out/
I have learned that after practicing this system alot, you start to see the angles. You still do your measurements, but you can see the adjustments you need to make. Thanks for this video.
"Understanding stuff helps speed the learning process" ~DrDave I couldn't have said it better than when I had said, "If you have a better understanding, then you can have more discoveries". Another masterful video DrDave, "You definitely aim to swerve"! 😉
Thanks Chris. FYI, I really appreciate how supportive you are of my stuff. Keep up the good work with your channel so you can also continue to aim to swerve!
I understood the system, very well explained! I am 12, and I have been playing pool since last year. You really pushed into the game and speeded up my learning. I practice pool seriously and have snooker lessons. Fav pool youtuber! Thank so much sir! 😊
I'm glad you like my stuff. Good luck with your game. FYI, if you want a challenge and a chance to earn some money, enter our BU Exam Challenge: billiards.colostate.edu/challenge/2020-bu-exam/ We currently only have one entry in the Exam III Junior Division. You might take 2nd place ($200) even if you miss most of the shots!
Another way to find the exact same line is a variation on the mirror system for one rail kicks: use the cue to measure the distance from the target to the corner pocket (intersection of the grooves), then double that distance along the same line and look back at the cueball from that point. Where you line of sight to the cueball crosses the rail is where you want to aim the shot. This is the same geometry as your parallel shift, but I find it to be more accurate because I don’t have to estimate mid point or the parallel. Of course, you need to make all the same adjustments since the rails don’t really act like a mirror.
I think the two-rail parrallel shift system is the easiest way to miss a ball. :D With all the variables, all you have to do is make one miscalculation to miss. Maybe with LOTS of practice and thinking about, am I going to hit this soft, medium, or hard? Is the Angle steep, near 45 degrees, or shallow? Do I add spin? Do I take away spin? Do I adjust towards the pocket? Do I adjust away from the pocket? That's why I learn a few tracklines to diamonds and pockets using dead ball, (No English, just center to 2 tips of top to get natural roll). Once you know the dead ball tracklines, you can apply English when necessary with predictable outcomes. Knowing where two tracklines from a single origin take you, you can adjust between those tracklines to find your line of aim. Once you know the path, you can always apply point on the wall to shift to where the cue ball is. I've seen Professionals, like Jennifer Barretta use similar methods during tournament play. It's funny to listen to the commentators wonder what she's doing... Why is she standing there, looking over there? Those who know, know. She knows the trackline that will take her where she wants to go. So she's finding the point on the wall that will take her there. If you think about it, when you aim a rail first kick to cut a ball down the rail into the corner pocket, you are using point on the wall. Your point is just a lot closer to the edge of the rail. Understanding what the distance from the edge of the rail the point on the wall needs to be is the key. And it translates across 1-rail, 2-rail, 3-rail, etc. Knowing how to adjust between kicking the cueball at a target versus banking an object ball at a target is extremely valuable. Even so, whatever method you use, there's always going to be some way to miscalculate and miss the shot... but if we can eliminate most of the variables, our odds go higher to execute what we intended.
I agree that the number of adjustment you need to know to be effective with this system over a wide range of shots is a bit ridiculous; but when the balls are in the middle of the table close to the 45-degree sweet spot, the system works great. I prefer the Plus System (billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/) and Spot On The Wall System (billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/) in some situations (especially when far from the sweet spot).
Same here. My skill was stuck at level 3 for the longest time. I discovered your book a few years ago. The biggest difference with your methods is you give repeatable results with practice. Your explanations are not "just trust me". They are backed by physics and math. The only limit will be to amount of practice to build muscle memory.
Agreed. Just because you are a 7 in your pond. Does mean you are a seven in the next pond. Some should go to a pool where the sharks swim to see how many game their 7 will carry them.
You guys are crazy. I’m in one of the top leagues in the country, these guys have won the national singles boards and we have sevens whose Fargo ratings are in the 700’s. Steve Knoll for example. I’ll play a money game with any of ya!
Great description on this system. I use this system but instead of pivoting I aim at the wall from the center point and then aim at that. I know aiming at the wall can be useful for two and three rail kicks.
For those interested, I have info and demonstrations for the "spot on the wall" system here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/ It works great if there are convenient walls or objects the right distances away from each pocket for each number of rails of contact.
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious; if you are fortunate enough to be playing in a large space, an option to parallel shifting the cue, would be finding a distant reference point (also known as "spot on the wall") while you are looking through the midpoint-to-corner line (ideally, this reference point would be infinitely far away). When you found one and memorized it, that would be your base CB aiming target, before the adjustments mentioned in the video. Note that if the chosen reference point is close to the table instead, you would not aim CB directly towards it, but adjust your aim a bit away from the corner.
Nice video dave! I have a few questions 1. Do you edit your videos or you have an editor? 2. Who taught you to play billiards? Or did your family thought you to play? 3. Who was the founder of the billiards university?
1. I do all the filming, narrating, and editing myself. 2. I learned on my own at first but learned a lot from many books, videos, players, and instructors over the years. 3. The BU was founded by me and Randy Russell, with input from other "founding Professors:" billiarduniversity.org/instruction/instructors/
Worth watching, I knew about the parallel shift, but the effects you covered was new to me. It seems useful in running the cueball after contact to play position as well, thanks again. You’re the GOAT!
@TheMrProtocol The Plus System works only for kicks hitting an end rail first; otherwise, they give the same of aim, assuming you make proper adjustments with both when necessary. For more info about Plus System adjustments, see the 2nd article linked here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/
Greta vid. Dr. dave...I'm using plus system, can't wait to check your adjustment and how it works..stay safe and share the knowledge....greats from Zagreb :)
I'm glad you mentioned the Plus System. Many of the adjustments are the same. For those interested, the Plus System is described and demonstrated in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/
I think with this system the error comes when there is less arch or angle to overcome. Possibly requiring some outside english or bottom english in the adjustment at that point. I will to test it out a bit at the church table tonight to see what happens. Thanks Dave!
This works great for me, but i dont use running english because i havent figured out SAWS yet, and i get a lot of deflection whenever i use side. I regularly make balls using 3 rail and spot on the wall, but i havent figured out how to hit the cue ball into an object ball and then 2 rails into a pocket, and i feel something that can regularly do that would be a great next iteration of this system.
Most systems for kicking off 2, 3, or more rails require running spin for accuracy and consistency, so the SAWS proficiency is something you should work on at some point.
This system works great for banking. You should do a video on it. (Not sure but you may of done one) Mid point between the object ball and corner you want to pocket ball in parallel shift in line with object ball and where that shift is on rail is where the object ball has to hit. Object ball can’t be rolling before it hits rail. I believe that’s the way it goes. Haven’t played since lockdown, need a table at home lol
Maybe I'll do a two-rail bank follow up. I would think a sliding OB would go too short. Also, with no or less running spin, the OB will come up short when coming into the 1st rail steep, and long coming into the 1st rail shallow (2nd rail steep).
@@DrDaveBilliards I am sure you will be the one to find out which is best. Even with that system I only get my banks 75% of the time for there is always an unknown factor that I didn't consider. (Well maybe it is known but not to me LOL or I forgot to consider it)
Very clear explanation of the corrections, Dr Dave! Thanks for the great summary! I've used this system for years, but probably never thought about "why" I make the adjustments that I do! LOL! If only we all had your video gems 40 years ago!!!
As a player just starting to use this, would it be easier to just use pocket adjustment and always use no spin on the cue ball? Or are both variables needed? I just kind of feel like trying to get a grasp of both at the same time would make the learning curve bigger. Which one to start with… spin or sliding the aim point?
I'm skeptical of this system. The shot goes long no matter what spin you use. I took a tape measure and square to get perfect parallel shifts, but it doesn't work. If you shift from the 40% distance to the lowest angle, instead of the midpoint, you get much better results.
Very interesting but way too much variables for me and it is only for a 2-rail kick. I will use the the midpoint-parallel-shift system as you demonstrate, keep always the same running spin and adjust my aim on the rail after visualising the path that should produce.
... not in this level of detail, but it is included on Volume IV of the Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS): drdavebilliards.com/videos/veps/disc-iv/
As I demonstrate at 3:01, you can find it visually fairly accurately. If you want to, you can use your cue to measure one side and compare it to the other to make adjustments if necessary. Here's an example: ua-cam.com/video/zwDWlpSJpeY/v-deo.html
At 12:31, for example, the appearance of your kick angle when shot looks like it's gonna go way long as you shoot and pocket the wired combo. If I may humbly suggest, it might be helpful (for some of us followers of your excellent videos) if you also have a centered overhead view?
I agree that a centered overhead view would be nice at times, but I would probably need a higher ceiling and a different light fixture and another camera. Do you think an overhead view would really add much to the demonstration of that shot (at 12:31) where I clearly show the aiming method, the correction, the aim point on the rail, and the tip position on the CB. I don't think an overhead view would really add much here. Do you? If so, how do you think it would help beyond what I provided?
@@DrDaveBilliards I honestly feel like the bottom half of the table looks smaller at that angle than it actually is. I was thinking also of maybe wearing one of those "helmet cams , like one other video producer from Europe ( Sharivari ) does sometimes. When shooting downward towards the footrail, from mid-table, the viewer gets a better perception of what you're trying to show. I've seen split screen videos of other shots like jumps, and it definitely benefited me, in terms of understanding the execution. Thank you for responding, and your teaching excellence in pocket billiards. Truly grateful for your efforts
Yes, but this type of shot is very sensitive to shot speed, any slight amount of sidespin, and table conditions: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/z-kick/
It's a very useful video ! Thanks a lot ! Is the cue in this video predator P3 LRM？ (I have this one also :) ) Ｗhat's the white color part in the forearm ? some kind of extension kit ?
It is hard to tell in the video, where perspective and play tricks on the eyes, but you could be right. I certainly ended up in the right place. Maybe I sensed I pivoted one way and was correcting by pivoting in the opposite direction.
Ok guys, ive looked until im blue in the face. Im looking for a particular Dr Dave video in which he teaches an aiming trick for a kick. It has something to do with using your cue to measure the distance from the object ball to the rail, then placing your fingers on the cue where it meets the rail and backing up until the tip of the cue is at the felt line on the rail. He then uses his thumb from the back end of the cue in order to see where the cue ball needs to touch on the rail in order to make said shot or kick. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
I don't think I've seen it ... or it wasn't worth remembering. I suspect it would be far too simple to be useful, and I doubt it accounted for the many important bank and kick effects: ua-cam.com/video/11iSqkJjWgM/v-deo.html
Dr.Dave.. i have an important question regarding a prop that you are using in your demonstration... that circle looking thing that indicates whether to use left spin or ring is confusing me cause when i am practicing its gives me the opposite effect of what your video demonstrates so i need to understand if left on the diagram means left spin cause thats what my experiment is showing is left on the diagram means right spin and thats how i get the effect on your video... can you confirm if i am right
The spin diagram shows the tip contact point on the CB from the shooter's perspective. So if the tip is shown on the left, that corresponds to left spin. If you have a question about a specific shot, please reply with a timestamp (mm:ss).
Apex Elgenio you are dam right. It is a problem for everybody, we have to make the switch in our head every time. It is because they think we will see better if the demonstration is at the front end of the video. Really it will take a small adjustment on the camera location and the demonstration can be make with the player having the same point of view than us. It seems to be a paradigm in pool demonstration videos, one day somebody will see the light.
@@FirstWayHockey i tried to do some of the drills a few months back and it was not until i went on the table that i really understood what was happening.... cause mentally it didn't make sense to me as math and physics teacher mysel.... if you didnt reply i wouldnt even know dr dave replied... thanks dr d your still the greatest pool instructor ever lived
Hi Dave, at 6.20, you say it goes long because it bites into second rail more but then say to add spin to correct for this. This seems contradictory, I would think this would make it go longer? Or does this make the angle out of the 1st rail shallower? Thanks
With this shot, the angle into the 1st rail is steep enough for the added spin to make the ball go longer off the 1st rail and shorter at the target. I probably should have presented that section a little better.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks Dave. So in contrast, when there is a very shallow angle into the 1st rail (very steep into 2nd rail), spin off the 1st doesn't do much, but spin off the 2nd does a lot so you use less spin/aim nearer to pocket?
Dumb question but at 2:00 you say 10:30 or 1:30 obviously in reference to a clock face. Why do people say that instead of 10:00 or 1:00? Does the extra 30 minutes on the clock refer to something different I'm just not realizing?
I guess you could also say 11 and 2 instead also, but they are all different amounts. If you want exactly top-right spin, the exact time is 1:30. If you want slightly less right, it is 1; and with a little more, it is 2.
@@DrDaveBilliards ok I understand now what you're referring to. The 30 mins refers to physically halfway between 1 and 2 if using only one hand on a clock. Before I was picturing a two handed clock in my head and not understanding how that was supposed to work.
I have been looking at banking/kicking systems for a while (I have traditionally been a visual kick/bank player) and I appreciate all of your videos but it seems to me that any system that requires correction on almost every shot isn't a very reliable system.
The "system" gets you close. The "corrections" make it closer. All kick and bank systems require adjustments to use them effectively over a wide range of shots and under various conditions.
Yes; but since Diamond tables usually play short, you might need to use a little less sidespin. Regardless of the table, you need to know how to adjust.
It might help to watch the video multiple times, assuming you want to know this system and be able to use it effectively. The short version of the effects summary in the video description and pinned comment might also help: general: - slow or fast speed goes short, so aim farther from pocket - OB close to cushion goes short, so aim farther from pocket - OB far from cushion goes long, so aim closer to pocket 45 degree approach: - benchmark speed and spin give square hit - less spin goes long, so aim closer to pocket - more spin goes short, so aim farther from pocket shallower angle into 1st cushion (steeper angle into 2nd cushion) goes long: - aim closer to pocket or use less spin steeper angle into 1st cushion goes short: - aim farther from pocket or use less spin
FYI, on a computer, you can view subtitles in any language by clicking on the closed caption (CC) icon at the bottom of the video. Then click on the Settings (gear) icon and select the language you want under "Subtitles/CC." Unfortunately, this doesn't yet work on mobile devices.
Topics covered included:
Intro [0:00]
1 - System [1:01]
---- 1a - adjusting for tendency to go long [1:58]
---- 1b - careful parallel shift [2:34]
---- 1c - finding the midpoint carefully [3:01]
---- 1d - aim adjustment amount [3:35]
2 - Effects [4:39]
---- 2a - spin [5:19]
---- 2b - speed [5:41]
---- 2c - OB distance from 2nd cushion [6:00]
---- 2d - steeper angle into 2nd cushion [6:15]
---- 2e - steeper angle into 1st cushion [8:06]
---- 2f - effects summary [8:47]
3 - Examples [9:32]
---- 3a - kick safe [10:23]
---- 3b - pocketing wired combo [12:15]
---- 3c - pocketing a hanger [12:54]
4 - Summary [13:33]
---- 4a - video montage of shots [14:27]
Effects Summary
short version:
general:
- slow or fast speed goes short, so aim farther from pocket
- OB close to cushion goes short, so aim farther from pocket
- OB far from cushion goes long, so aim closer to pocket
45 degree approach:
- benchmark speed and spin give square hit
- less spin goes long, so aim closer to pocket
- more spin goes short, so aim farther from pocket
shallower angle into 1st cushion (steeper angle into 2nd cushion) goes long:
- aim closer to pocket or use less spin
steeper angle into 1st cushion goes short:
- aim farther from pocket or use less spin
long version:
1. general:
-- a. less spin goes long, more spin goes short
-- b. slow and fast speed go short
-- c. OB close to the 2nd rail goes short, far from the 2nd rail goes long
2. midpoint pocket line at 45˚ along the corner-side diagonal:
-- a. can find a “benchmark” speed and spin that works
-- b. on most tables, natural running spin goes a little long, so pivot aim toward the pocket
3. midpoint pocket line a little closer to 1st rail (a little steeper into the 2nd cushion):
-- a. benchmark speed and spin goes long
-- b. fix: more spin at small angles from the diagonal
-- c. fix: aiming closer to pocket works, moving more with more angle from diagonal
4. midpoint pocket line between diagonal and 1st rail (steeper into the 2nd cushion):
-- a. benchmark speed and spin goes long
-- b. fix: less spin, or aim closer to pocket
5. midpoint pocket line close to the 1st rail (very steep into the 2nd cushion)
-- a. benchmark speed and spin goes long
-- b. small changes in spin have big effect
-- c. fix: less spin, or aim farther from the pocket with no spin
6. midpoint pocket line a little closer to 2nd rail (a little steeper into the 2nd cushion):
-- a. benchmark speed and spin goes short
-- b. fix: less spin (even less if closer)
-- c. fix: aim farther from the pocket (more if closer)
Supporting Resources:
- midpoint parallel-shift kicking system resource page: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/midpoint/
- Top 10 Bank and Kick Shot Aiming systems: ua-cam.com/video/U5Exnt3WDXA/v-deo.html
- System for Aiming With Sidespin (SAWS): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/saws/
- aim compensation when using sidespin: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/aim/compensation/
- bank and kick shot effects: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
- how to test out and adjust to an unfamiliar table: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/table/checking-out/
I have learned that after practicing this system alot, you start to see the angles. You still do your measurements, but you can see the adjustments you need to make. Thanks for this video.
There is nothing better than solid intuition built up by lots of smart practice. You're welcome.
"Understanding stuff helps speed the learning process" ~DrDave
I couldn't have said it better than when I had said, "If you have a better understanding, then you can have more discoveries".
Another masterful video DrDave, "You definitely aim to swerve"! 😉
Thanks Chris. FYI, I really appreciate how supportive you are of my stuff. Keep up the good work with your channel so you can also continue to aim to swerve!
Terrible video
I understood the system, very well explained! I am 12, and I have been playing pool since last year. You really pushed into the game and speeded up my learning. I practice pool seriously and have snooker lessons. Fav pool youtuber!
Thank so much sir! 😊
I'm glad you like my stuff. Good luck with your game. FYI, if you want a challenge and a chance to earn some money, enter our BU Exam Challenge:
billiards.colostate.edu/challenge/2020-bu-exam/
We currently only have one entry in the Exam III Junior Division. You might take 2nd place ($200) even if you miss most of the shots!
Another way to find the exact same line is a variation on the mirror system for one rail kicks: use the cue to measure the distance from the target to the corner pocket (intersection of the grooves), then double that distance along the same line and look back at the cueball from that point. Where you line of sight to the cueball crosses the rail is where you want to aim the shot. This is the same geometry as your parallel shift, but I find it to be more accurate because I don’t have to estimate mid point or the parallel. Of course, you need to make all the same adjustments since the rails don’t really act like a mirror.
Thanks for the tip. I’ll give it a try.
I think the two-rail parrallel shift system is the easiest way to miss a ball. :D With all the variables, all you have to do is make one miscalculation to miss. Maybe with LOTS of practice and thinking about, am I going to hit this soft, medium, or hard? Is the Angle steep, near 45 degrees, or shallow? Do I add spin? Do I take away spin? Do I adjust towards the pocket? Do I adjust away from the pocket? That's why I learn a few tracklines to diamonds and pockets using dead ball, (No English, just center to 2 tips of top to get natural roll). Once you know the dead ball tracklines, you can apply English when necessary with predictable outcomes. Knowing where two tracklines from a single origin take you, you can adjust between those tracklines to find your line of aim. Once you know the path, you can always apply point on the wall to shift to where the cue ball is. I've seen Professionals, like Jennifer Barretta use similar methods during tournament play. It's funny to listen to the commentators wonder what she's doing... Why is she standing there, looking over there? Those who know, know. She knows the trackline that will take her where she wants to go. So she's finding the point on the wall that will take her there. If you think about it, when you aim a rail first kick to cut a ball down the rail into the corner pocket, you are using point on the wall. Your point is just a lot closer to the edge of the rail. Understanding what the distance from the edge of the rail the point on the wall needs to be is the key. And it translates across 1-rail, 2-rail, 3-rail, etc. Knowing how to adjust between kicking the cueball at a target versus banking an object ball at a target is extremely valuable. Even so, whatever method you use, there's always going to be some way to miscalculate and miss the shot... but if we can eliminate most of the variables, our odds go higher to execute what we intended.
I agree that the number of adjustment you need to know to be effective with this system over a wide range of shots is a bit ridiculous; but when the balls are in the middle of the table close to the 45-degree sweet spot, the system works great. I prefer the Plus System (billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/) and Spot On The Wall System (billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/) in some situations (especially when far from the sweet spot).
I've always struggled with the 2 railers. Thanks Dr. Dave! Here in Oregon waiting for it to be safe for playing tournaments. Great complete content!
You're welcome, and thank you!
I told my buddy I need to find the perfect video to learn 2-railers...then this video gets released. Practicing tonight, thanks Dave!
Awesome. I hope it helps.
Amazing. I've gone from a skill level 3 to a skill level 6 because of these videos, and I'm working on becoming a 7!
I'm glad to hear it. Continued good luck with your game!
Forget a 7. Work on becoming a champion! 👍😄🎱
Same here. My skill was stuck at level 3 for the longest time. I discovered your book a few years ago. The biggest difference with your methods is you give repeatable results with practice. Your explanations are not "just trust me". They are backed by physics and math. The only limit will be to amount of practice to build muscle memory.
Agreed. Just because you are a 7 in your pond. Does mean you are a seven in the next pond. Some should go to a pool where the sharks swim to see how many game their 7 will carry them.
You guys are crazy. I’m in one of the top leagues in the country, these guys have won the national singles boards and we have sevens whose Fargo ratings are in the 700’s. Steve Knoll for example. I’ll play a money game with any of ya!
Thanks again, Dr. Dave. As usual, your analysis and instruction are "unparalleled".
You're welcome, and thank you!
This system won me a lot of difficult matches both in real life and in 8 ball pool game! Thank you Dr. Dave, you are a legend!
I'm glad to hear it. You're welcome.
Great description on this system. I use this system but instead of pivoting I aim at the wall from the center point and then aim at that. I know aiming at the wall can be useful for two and three rail kicks.
For those interested, I have info and demonstrations for the "spot on the wall" system here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/
It works great if there are convenient walls or objects the right distances away from each pocket for each number of rails of contact.
Apologies if I'm stating the obvious; if you are fortunate enough to be playing in a large space, an option to parallel shifting the cue, would be finding a distant reference point (also known as "spot on the wall") while you are looking through the midpoint-to-corner line (ideally, this reference point would be infinitely far away). When you found one and memorized it, that would be your base CB aiming target, before the adjustments mentioned in the video.
Note that if the chosen reference point is close to the table instead, you would not aim CB directly towards it, but adjust your aim a bit away from the corner.
Good point. For those interested, see the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spot-on-wall/
Wow this is awesome. I gave up on this system bc it was inconsistent. Now it makes a lot of sense why. Can't wait to try it out!
I hope the video helps you have more success with the system. All "systems" require adjustments in different situations.
Learned to use this about 30 years ago from Byrne's Guide to Pocket Billiards. I always use this method. 😀
Many books cover the basic system, but I have not seen any that cover how to make the necessary adjustments for different angles.
Nice video dave! I have a few questions
1. Do you edit your videos or you have an editor?
2. Who taught you to play billiards? Or did your family thought you to play?
3. Who was the founder of the billiards university?
1. I do all the filming, narrating, and editing myself.
2. I learned on my own at first but learned a lot from many books, videos, players, and instructors over the years.
3. The BU was founded by me and Randy Russell, with input from other "founding Professors:" billiarduniversity.org/instruction/instructors/
@@DrDaveBilliards oh ok thanks!
Ill have to print out the summary page when i get put into a good safety during competition!
Great video. I am excited to try this out!
This sort of thing definitely takes lots of practice to "burn in" the "understanding."
Thank you Dr Dave! Excellent demonstration and teaching!
You're welcome ... and thank you. I aim to swerve. :)
Worth watching, I knew about the parallel shift, but the effects you covered was new to me. It seems useful in running the cueball after contact to play position as well, thanks again. You’re the GOAT!
You’re welcome, and thank you. I aim to swerve. :)
Thanks for another great and useful video Dave. Stay safe.
You're welcome ... and thank you. I aim to swerve. :)
Outstanding video Dr. Dave.
Thanks.
More brilliance from the community's favorite Doctor :-)
@Bill Pii Agreed. Dr. Cue was an early pioneer in figuring out good ways to explain and demonstrate classic systems like these.
Needed this! Great vid! Stay safe Dr Dave, saranghae
Did you have time to watch the whole thing already? !!!
@@DrDaveBilliards Im watching it right now but your videos are always so informative! :)
I hope you still think it was helpful after watching it.
@TheMrProtocol The Plus System works only for kicks hitting an end rail first; otherwise, they give the same of aim, assuming you make proper adjustments with both when necessary. For more info about Plus System adjustments, see the 2nd article linked here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/
Another complicated technique made simple by the Doc ..... well, relatively simple. 😊
I could have made it much more simple, but then it would have been much less useful and accurate. :)
Greta vid. Dr. dave...I'm using plus system, can't wait to check your adjustment and how it works..stay safe and share the knowledge....greats from Zagreb :)
I'm glad you mentioned the Plus System. Many of the adjustments are the same. For those interested, the Plus System is described and demonstrated in detail here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/plus/
I think with this system the error comes when there is less arch or angle to overcome. Possibly requiring some outside english or bottom english in the adjustment at that point. I will to test it out a bit at the church table tonight to see what happens. Thanks Dave!
@@CosplayZine All the important effects and adjustments you need to be aware of are summarized here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/midpoint/
Happy New year Dr Dave
Ditto!
This works great for me, but i dont use running english because i havent figured out SAWS yet, and i get a lot of deflection whenever i use side. I regularly make balls using 3 rail and spot on the wall, but i havent figured out how to hit the cue ball into an object ball and then 2 rails into a pocket, and i feel something that can regularly do that would be a great next iteration of this system.
Most systems for kicking off 2, 3, or more rails require running spin for accuracy and consistency, so the SAWS proficiency is something you should work on at some point.
Wow, im such a noob . I been playing by eye. This is a very helpful tutorial. 😆
I’m glad you thought it was helpful.
Great one Dave. Thanks. For next video, I’d suggest to demonstrate the amazing two rails zig-zag shot.
FYI, I already have some info dealing with two-rail "Z kicks" here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/z-kick/
Check it out.
DrDaveBilliards very interesting !
This system works great for banking. You should do a video on it. (Not sure but you may of done one) Mid point between the object ball and corner you want to pocket ball in parallel shift in line with object ball and where that shift is on rail is where the object ball has to hit. Object ball can’t be rolling before it hits rail. I believe that’s the way it goes. Haven’t played since lockdown, need a table at home lol
Maybe I'll do a two-rail bank follow up. I would think a sliding OB would go too short. Also, with no or less running spin, the OB will come up short when coming into the 1st rail steep, and long coming into the 1st rail shallow (2nd rail steep).
@@DrDaveBilliards I am sure you will be the one to find out which is best. Even with that system I only get my banks 75% of the time for there is always an unknown factor that I didn't consider. (Well maybe it is known but not to me LOL or I forgot to consider it)
Very nice video, Dave. Thanks.
Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Thanks
Thanks for inspiring n upgrading my knowledge about billiard, special about kick shot Sir
Gbu 🙂
You're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Very clear explanation of the corrections, Dr Dave! Thanks for the great summary! I've used this system for years, but probably never thought about "why" I make the adjustments that I do! LOL! If only we all had your video gems 40 years ago!!!
Thank you ... and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
I wish UA-cam were around 40 years ago too! Life in general would have been so much easier.
As a player just starting to use this, would it be easier to just use pocket adjustment and always use no spin on the cue ball? Or are both variables needed? I just kind of feel like trying to get a grasp of both at the same time would make the learning curve bigger. Which one to start with… spin or sliding the aim point?
I would recommend varying the amount of spin, because you need spin for the most natural (and most consistent) angles.
I'm skeptical of this system. The shot goes long no matter what spin you use. I took a tape measure and square to get perfect parallel shifts, but it doesn't work.
If you shift from the 40% distance to the lowest angle, instead of the midpoint, you get much better results.
You can either add more spin (most people don’t apply enough) or just adjust the system aim. There are many ways to adjust.
Very interesting but way too much variables for me and it is only for a 2-rail kick. I will use the the midpoint-parallel-shift system as you demonstrate, keep always the same running spin and adjust my aim on the rail after visualising the path that should produce.
... nothing wrong with that, assuming you know how to adjust based on the angles into the rails.
Is this video part of any of the instructional videos which can be purchased ?
... not in this level of detail, but it is included on Volume IV of the Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS):
drdavebilliards.com/videos/veps/disc-iv/
I would love this concept. But one minor detail...how do you calculate the center of the balls to the pocket?
As I demonstrate at 3:01, you can find it visually fairly accurately. If you want to, you can use your cue to measure one side and compare it to the other to make adjustments if necessary. Here's an example:
ua-cam.com/video/zwDWlpSJpeY/v-deo.html
Thank you!!
Cool.. Thanks. Amazing system..
Keep posting,
The UnknownManCub👍 😎
You're welcome. I'm glad you liked it.
At 12:31, for example, the appearance of your kick angle when shot looks like it's gonna go way long as you shoot and pocket the wired combo. If I may humbly suggest, it might be helpful (for some of us followers of your excellent videos) if you also have a centered overhead view?
I agree that a centered overhead view would be nice at times, but I would probably need a higher ceiling and a different light fixture and another camera. Do you think an overhead view would really add much to the demonstration of that shot (at 12:31) where I clearly show the aiming method, the correction, the aim point on the rail, and the tip position on the CB. I don't think an overhead view would really add much here. Do you? If so, how do you think it would help beyond what I provided?
@@DrDaveBilliards I honestly feel like the bottom half of the table looks smaller at that angle than it actually is. I was thinking also of maybe wearing one of those "helmet cams , like one other video producer from Europe ( Sharivari ) does sometimes. When shooting downward towards the footrail, from mid-table, the viewer gets a better perception of what you're trying to show. I've seen split screen videos of other shots like jumps, and it definitely benefited me, in terms of understanding the execution. Thank you for responding, and your teaching excellence in pocket billiards. Truly grateful for your efforts
@DrDaveBilliards, is there a system for 2 rail kicks that are from long rail to long rail? (like a z, not long rail to short rail)
Yes, but this type of shot is very sensitive to shot speed, any slight amount of sidespin, and table conditions:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/z-kick/
Put your money with Efren. Because hes the greatest Banker ever.
He's the greatest everything ever.
It's a very useful video ! Thanks a lot !
Is the cue in this video predator P3 LRM？
(I have this one also :) )
Ｗhat's the white color part in the forearm ?
some kind of extension kit ?
I'm glad you liked it. You are correct about my cue. I've added a joint extender to lengthen the cue since I am tall (6'3").
When discussing how people can make the error of pivoting their stick at around the 2:56 mark it looks like you pivot your stick :)
It is hard to tell in the video, where perspective and play tricks on the eyes, but you could be right. I certainly ended up in the right place. Maybe I sensed I pivoted one way and was correcting by pivoting in the opposite direction.
Ok guys, ive looked until im blue in the face. Im looking for a particular Dr Dave video in which he teaches an aiming trick for a kick. It has something to do with using your cue to measure the distance from the object ball to the rail, then placing your fingers on the cue where it meets the rail and backing up until the tip of the cue is at the felt line on the rail. He then uses his thumb from the back end of the cue in order to see where the cue ball needs to touch on the rail in order to make said shot or kick. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
That’s the “mirror system” covered here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
What do you think of that bank-kick angle calculator? That plastic thing that was being advertised a while back.
I don't think I've seen it ... or it wasn't worth remembering. I suspect it would be far too simple to be useful, and I doubt it accounted for the many important bank and kick effects:
ua-cam.com/video/11iSqkJjWgM/v-deo.html
@@DrDaveBilliards this thing. I figure it can't hurt but I've never actually used one.
ua-cam.com/video/Mm_8xUW4Du0/v-deo.html
Dr.Dave.. i have an important question regarding a prop that you are using in your demonstration... that circle looking thing that indicates whether to use left spin or ring is confusing me cause when i am practicing its gives me the opposite effect of what your video demonstrates so i need to understand if left on the diagram means left spin cause thats what my experiment is showing is left on the diagram means right spin and thats how i get the effect on your video... can you confirm if i am right
The spin diagram shows the tip contact point on the CB from the shooter's perspective. So if the tip is shown on the left, that corresponds to left spin. If you have a question about a specific shot, please reply with a timestamp (mm:ss).
Apex Elgenio you are dam right. It is a problem for everybody, we have to make the switch in our head every time. It is because they think we will see better if the demonstration is at the front end of the video. Really it will take a small adjustment on the camera location and the demonstration can be make with the player having the same point of view than us. It seems to be a paradigm in pool demonstration videos, one day somebody will see the light.
@@FirstWayHockey i tried to do some of the drills a few months back and it was not until i went on the table that i really understood what was happening.... cause mentally it didn't make sense to me as math and physics teacher mysel.... if you didnt reply i wouldnt even know dr dave replied... thanks dr d your still the greatest pool instructor ever lived
Hi Dave, at 6.20, you say it goes long because it bites into second rail more but then say to add spin to correct for this. This seems contradictory, I would think this would make it go longer? Or does this make the angle out of the 1st rail shallower? Thanks
With this shot, the angle into the 1st rail is steep enough for the added spin to make the ball go longer off the 1st rail and shorter at the target. I probably should have presented that section a little better.
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks Dave. So in contrast, when there is a very shallow angle into the 1st rail (very steep into 2nd rail), spin off the 1st doesn't do much, but spin off the 2nd does a lot so you use less spin/aim nearer to pocket?
Sorry for the late reply. I just saw this. The answer is yes.
Dumb question but at 2:00 you say 10:30 or 1:30 obviously in reference to a clock face. Why do people say that instead of 10:00 or 1:00? Does the extra 30 minutes on the clock refer to something different I'm just not realizing?
I guess you could also say 11 and 2 instead also, but they are all different amounts. If you want exactly top-right spin, the exact time is 1:30. If you want slightly less right, it is 1; and with a little more, it is 2.
@@DrDaveBilliards ok I understand now what you're referring to. The 30 mins refers to physically halfway between 1 and 2 if using only one hand on a clock. Before I was picturing a two handed clock in my head and not understanding how that was supposed to work.
I have been looking at banking/kicking systems for a while (I have traditionally been a visual kick/bank player) and I appreciate all of your videos but it seems to me that any system that requires correction on almost every shot isn't a very reliable system.
The "system" gets you close. The "corrections" make it closer. All kick and bank systems require adjustments to use them effectively over a wide range of shots and under various conditions.
Does this system work on a Diamond table?
Yes; but since Diamond tables usually play short, you might need to use a little less sidespin. Regardless of the table, you need to know how to adjust.
I'm not going to tell my friends about this for a while
Sneaky. :)
That’s a fun-to-practice pool shot, isn’t it?
Definitely, especially when you get better at it after the practice. That was certainly the case for me during filming.
I can’t get it
There is a lot of info packed into this video, so it might help to watch it multiple times, using pause and rewind when necessary.
Amazing, now I'm even more confused.
It might help to watch the video multiple times, assuming you want to know this system and be able to use it effectively. The short version of the effects summary in the video description and pinned comment might also help:
general:
- slow or fast speed goes short, so aim farther from pocket
- OB close to cushion goes short, so aim farther from pocket
- OB far from cushion goes long, so aim closer to pocket
45 degree approach:
- benchmark speed and spin give square hit
- less spin goes long, so aim closer to pocket
- more spin goes short, so aim farther from pocket
shallower angle into 1st cushion (steeper angle into 2nd cushion) goes long:
- aim closer to pocket or use less spin
steeper angle into 1st cushion goes short:
- aim farther from pocket or use less spin
Poner en español tu en señansa del juego de billar
FYI, on a computer, you can view subtitles in any language by clicking on the closed caption (CC) icon at the bottom of the video. Then click on the Settings (gear) icon and select the language you want under "Subtitles/CC." Unfortunately, this doesn't yet work on mobile devices.
100th comment….
Congratulations. You must feel really fulfilled and enlightened now. :)
If you haven't "Liked" the video yet, check back after 17 more clicks and you can also have the 1000'th Like. Now that would be special. :)
@@DrDaveBilliards lol…… didn’t notice that, I’m gonna wait n make it 1000th like today…
Thanks
You're welcome.