*Contents:* 0:00 - Intro 0:39 - 2-to-1 System 2:19 - Bank and Kick Effects 5:50 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice System 8:10 - 1-More-Than-Twice System 10:54 - Shots Between System Reference Lines 13:33 - Kicks and Banks off Short Rails 15:01 - Game-Situation Examples 17:08 - Summary *Supporting Resources:* - bank and kick shot aiming system tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/ - bank and kick shot effects and adjustments: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/ - checking out how a table kicks and banks: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/testing/ - adjustments for Diamond brand tables: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond - rolling-CB kick shot diamond system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/two-to-one/ - 1/3-more-than-twice bank shot diamond system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/fast-system/ - recommended full-length instructional videos covering all important kick and bank system, with lots of examples: ---- How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) Vol. III: drdavebilliards.com/videos/aiming/disc-iii/ ---- Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS) Vol. IV: drdavebilliards.com/videos/veps/disc-iv/ ---- Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP) Vol. IV: drdavebilliards.com/videos/vepp/disc-iv/
@@Daforealkindastuf It would be awesome to have Efren on my channel, but it is unfortunately not easy to do. Also, Efren probably doesn't use systems much since his intuition is so awesome due to countless hours of smart practice and successful experience (and special talent), so he is probably not the best at teaching systems.
Best explanation I have found on UA-cam so far. Many others won't even explain whether to aim at the diamond or the edge of the rail where the diamond is, nor will they explain what part of the pocket is the diamond, or how speed effects everything, or how distance from the cushion effects the shot as well. Result is that I watched other videos and then failed to make any bank shots when I think I'm doing just what they said!
As always, I fine your video's a little late. But better late than never! I keep comming back to your videos to refresh my mind. And game! BIG THANKS Dr. Dave!!!!!!!!!! You also have the best videos on the market bar none!
I love this system. Dr Dave has done it again. It does sound complex but pool and physics based games are complex. They just need to be practiced. You did such a great job making this video and instructing the system.
I know this video is old but to any beginners out there who are watching this and really confused about how this all works, don’t give up! I’m a beginner as well and I was really confused about how this all worked but as I’ve watched this again and again, I find that I understand it better each time. Same goes for videos about side spin, it might not make sense at first but just try things out over time and rewatch the videos and it’ll start to click at some point. Don’t be frustrated by how complicated it seems at first.
Doc I gotta tell ya.. Man you've made my day. these are the best instructions I have ever seen on how to shoot all the shots. Man I've been eye-ballin it for over sixty (60) years, and NOW I KNOW HOW TO DO IT>> GOD bless ya man. The best instructions I've ever seen. THANX A LOT MAN.
I'm happy to hear it. You're welcome. FYI, I have a lot more info and many more videos dealing with banks and kicks here (especially at the bottom of the page): billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ Enjoy!
Just got back in to pool. Was a decent player back when i played, decent as in i could make my shots, but had no help of any kind. I never understood the diamonds before, but this is a tremendous help. The dark days before everything was on UA-cam lol, thanks again
This video is not meant for just a single view. If you want to use the info in your game, multiple viewings (and practicing each things separately) are required. And if you want more help and info on any of the individual topics, visit the links in the video description and pinned comment for more videos and other resources.
@F X These systems work in all games and on all tables; although, some adjustment will be required for conditions, especially on Diamond brand tables. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/testing/
Thank you for the refresher course. Hard to explain to beginner players but because multiple rail kicks self adjust , one rail kicks to the middle of the table are more difficult to see and explain. And of course you really need to know where the Centerline of the ball is! Thanks so much DOCTOR DAVE!! The Sid system is vety cool and accurate also on some limited kicks.
I'm glad to hear it. If you want to learn more, I have lots of videos and other resources on this topic here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ Enjoy!
Always enjoy your videos sir! I got a question: at 03:26 , what do you mean when you say "under or centered over the cusion" ? I understood everything till this point of time. Not getting how you referred to making banks and kicks at medium and high speeds.
At medium speed, he tip is placed either under the cushion (on the table) or on top of the cushion (in the middle), so the reference line is between the line of diamonds (slow) and the rail groove (fast). All three lines are illustrated in this document: billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/mirror_kicking.pdf
One system I like to use, which is similar to your one more than twice through the diamonds is this: I practice my kicks with slow rolling cue ball without any side spin. (Dead Ball, only center ball to 2 tips of high (no side spin)). I practice this for one-rail, and two-rail kicks. Once I know how to get to the pockets with slow rolling cue ball, I introduce an object ball. I find that I can then adjust my aim for the cue ball in 1/2 a diamond. I find the point on the wall for this new angle and I aim the object ball at this point on the wall, using medium to medium hard speed to bank it into the pocket, either via 1 or 2 rails. For 1-rail banks, this matches up with your 1 more than twice. And as you mentioned, as the angles open up wider, 1/2 a diamond becomes too much and you need to lessen it a bit. If the object ball is near the rail, I use English to put running spin on the object ball to help it roll off the rail to stay on the correct track-line. Most of the time I use your 1/3rd more than twice method for 1 rail banks; however, for my stroke and the speed I like to hit, I can aim through the diamonds instead of across from the diamonds using this system.
Dr Dave, concerning the 1/3 more system , I have also noticed I can aim at 1/3 of the object ball , rather than aiming straight on the object ball in banking most of these shots...That is when straight on with a 4 to 2, or a 3 to 1 1/2 track. It does change a bit with wider tracks. Speed seems to be key here,
When cutting the ball, you also need to compensate for cut-induced spin, which also varies with shot speed and CB spin. FYI, all the factors that require adjustment with kicks and banks are listed and demonstrated here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
One thing that's giving me problems is my table, it's a 1950 Brunswick 9' and it's got the original rubber on it. That's probably why my angles are a little different than yours, but the system is the same. I can't wait to see how my new table will play. Thanx again Doc, you're the best!
I keep learning something new from Dave. .3 plus twice is a nice quick way to compensate. I do miss some kicks and banks using the twice the angle approach which leaves me baffled. I am very accurate but the cut induced throw or speed of the shot may be moving me off enough. More to learn!
If you want to learn more, see: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/ and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/ Enjoy, and good luck!
Easy method For banks)... line up directly on the axis of the ball pair, then look at the angle to the rail and "see" if it will be too wide or too short to make the target, adjust angle accordingly and get (or learn) a "feel" for how much to add or detract from the ball pair axis to get the shot. Eventually it becomes automatic and your brain does the work without table examination calculations. I have many examples of doing it but have done no explanatory videos as yet. Click my name or... ua-cam.com/video/u6su0nJgCbU/v-deo.html
I've 'developed' my own system years ago which approximates the 1/3 system quite well. I could call it the percentage system. I don't measure from the rail groove, but through the diamonds, add the numbers and substract 3% for every diamond to compensate for the railgroove/diamond distance on an angle, so 3% for 1, 6% for 2 and 9% for 3 etc. It has helped me quite well over the years, but calculating can get a bit difficult for kicks that are not aimed at a pocket. I'll practice the 1/3 system on my table, it sounds easier.
The best system for sliding banks is the “twice plus tenths” system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/twice-plus-tenths/ I use that now instead of the 1/3-more-than-twice system. It is even more accurate and works well over a wide range of angles. Check, it out.
@@DrDaveBilliards Will do, thnx. I've stopped playing for almost 10 years (twice a year at most) but I'm feeling a new spark lately and dusted off my table. It's almost like riding a bike, you never forget. edit: Omg, yes that's almost the system I came up with! (I substract because I measure from the other side, you should indeed add if it's the other way around. 0 to 2 gives 4 +10%= 4,4. But 4,4 -10% = 4, to 2 gives 0) The reason I increased the percentage per diamond is that I came short for higher angles a lot of times. It's reassuring to see that I was indeed on to something. Had some discussions in the past with an oldschool player who didn't calculate anything but just learnt every possible angle by heart, and he basically said I was full of s... edit2: I see you still use the rail grooves. Maybe that's why my system is a bit different. I use the diamonds.
Does anyone know if our good Dr. has a Fargo rating? Also I wonder if he ever plays competitively or in tournaments? If he's familiar with playing in situations like that, I wonder if he would consider sharing his wisdom, thoughts or any tips he thinks would be valuable to those of us with very little experience outside of banging around on a bar box... Does any of that make sense? I'm battling some bad insomnia and a foggy brain since I quit drinking two months ago... Probably shouldn't be pestering youtube while I'm delirious like this 😂 Oh and I cannot overstate how great it's been to have the good Dr. share such a wealth of knowledge with us. I only started playing 4 years ago and every step of the way these videos have really helped me stay motivated and positive. Honestly, if I hadn't found this channel when I first started playing, I might not have stayed interested and given up. I blame Dr. Dave for singlehandedly helping create the strong love for the game I have now 💪💪💪🔥🔥🔥🎱🎱🎱
I do not have a FargoRating. I play only in VNEA leagues and tournaments and they don't participate in FargoRate (much to my dismay). My Fargo Rate would probably be in the 650-670 range, per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/rating/ Videos of me playing can be found near the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave/ Advice on how to play competitively can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/mental/ and here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/improving/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/pro/ Enjoy!
Hey Dr. Dave, I saw you answer to a question on the grip in the comments saying your personally fulcrum finger is the middle finger. I seen the article on the website addressing how to grip the cue using the index and thumb and the rest of the fingers is supporting it. How would this differ if your fulcrum is your middle finger and thumb, and what should your ring, pinkie and index fingers should be doing? Do you personally slightly let go of the pressure on your index finger when following through your stroke, but at the same time your rest of your fingers is still holding the cue? I noticed Sam who was in your top 10 secrets of good draw shot. When Sam was following through her stroke on 7. Keeping your grip relaxed 8:37 her index finger appears to be slightly sticking out. I also do that because i think it makes my cue go straighter on my follow through. Thank you
See the videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/technique/ I think that covers everything fairly well. The best advice is to not think about it too much and just make sure the grip and wrist stay as relaxed as possible during the entire stroke. Let the fingers do what they need to do to allow the cue to pivot in the grip.
@@DrDaveBilliards should the rest of my fingers not including my thumb and fulcrum middle finger. Should they be wrapped around my cue and touching my palm?
@@kollomalloff469 It depends on the person and how long their fingers are. The fingers should generally be gently wrapped around the cue. See my previous post for more info.
Good info. Wish Diamond tables were not the trend. Everyone wants to play on a "pro table" but Brunswick tables are more fun to play on.. more cue ball control, bank more true, can hit firmer on rail shots and more draw.
I have bought your videos, they have helped me immensely! The one I have hoped for is straight back banks. If you have a system for that I for one would greatly appreciated the video! DO YOU?????
I cover that in the "Kicks and Banks off Short Rails" section of the video, starting at 13:33. Check it out. For straight-back banks, adjusting for cut-induced-throw is often important. See the "Bank and Kick Effects" section starting at 2:19 for that.
Dave can you do a video on how Effern Reyes played and pocketed the 10 ball when he call that he was playing the 10 ball 1, 2, 3 rails. The shot was made in Reyes/Stricklin farewell tour in Gemany.
@DrDaveBilliards, you know how when aiming the cue ball straight to a diamond with half a tip of right spin, it will make the cue ball go 1 diamond to the right. What if the cue ball hits an object ball first, assuming the same angle into the rail, does it still go 1 diamond to the right? I'm assuming no since some of the spin is lost after the cue ball contacts an object ball? If so, is there a system to calculate that spin loss/gain?
Everything is different when hitting an object ball. The effect of the sidespin depends on many things including the cut angle, the angle into the cushion, and table conditions. There is no simple “formula,” but it helps to understand all the principles and effects here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/effects/ It also helps a great deal to work on sidespin drills: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/drills/
I notice that you are using a balance rite shaft extension,is your cue warped with that extension on because the extension's top and bottom flat pieces are not completely level ??
I don't think my cue is warped at all. I chose that extension because I liked the weight and length. Even if it did add a slight warp, it honestly wouldn't bother me. My tip is still going to hit the CB where I am aiming.
@@DrDaveBilliards I really liked that 20 8 ball runouts video,could you do the same video but with 9 ball and 10 ball with the break shot explanation part In the begining
FYI, I already have some good 9-ball break strategy videos and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/9-ball/ And I cover the 10-ball break in detail here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/10-ball/ Enjoy!
The diamond tables with the red background in their logo on the head rail bank short, the new diamonds with blue background on the logo has fixed the short bank problem and will bank same as any other table now. The rail contact point of the original diamonds was to high resulting in contact with a smaller radius of the ball causing banks to come off short.
FYI, I have info about this here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond You are right about the red-label Diamonds banking ridiculously short. The only blue-label I have ever tested also banked much shorter than most tables, but not as short as the red-label Diamonds.
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you for more info on the subject, I didn’t even know there is a black label! Was sure you knew about new vs old, wanted to help anyone that did not. Only two tight pocket tables at my room are GC and blue diamond and I play on both never thinking about a difference, I’m on way to hall now and first thing I’m gonna do is take note so I’m aware instead of shooting on instinct. Thanks again Dr. 🎱🤑
The beginning of this video was spot on. I have been using that system for years and got so used to it,,I can figure out the exact spot on the rail needed very quickly. You can break that down into 1/8s and find the exact spot no matter where the balls sit. I dont care for the plus 1/3 at all when it can be done as I described with nothing more needed.
Hey Dr. Dave, question if your fulcrum grip for your cue is your middle finger. Should the thumb be supporting your fulcrum grip middle finger? Also should you have wrist action on your pendulum stroke? Thank you
My fulcrum is on the middle finger, but some people have it on the index or ring finger. Concerning wrist action, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/wrist/
DR. Dave, in your opinion, what is the best table out there ? Diamond, Olhausen , Brunswick, Rasson ?!? Perhaps another lesser known brand ? I'm talking in terms of how well it plays, so things like price, looks, longevity are not relevant. So can you please state the best one you've player on.
Sorry, but I don't really have an opinion on this. All the tables you listed are of good quality and play well. My only complaint about Diamonds (which are high quality tables) is that the cushions play too short and too fast (compared to most other pool tables) per the info here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks. Regarding Diamond tables, I like fast cloths, but banking short does not sound good. Perhaps it's due to the rubber they use for the rails/cushions.
Hi! Is there a way you could further explicate what you mean by "aiming thru the diamond"? I am trying to follow but I am not sure. To me, w/o any further knowledge, it appears that "aiming thru the diamond" from starting point is just a few degrees different than when "aiming at a rail".... Thank you in advance 🙏🏻
Thank you, that was very helpful. Although, i play on diamond tables :) also most of the time one needs to get shape on a ball that requires some kind of spin. Or back cut bank a ball. I think all systems are great references but it all comes down to feel and practice! My opinion at least!
Good point. A lot of "feel" is required when adjusting to different equipment and when there is a cut angle or when you are using spin. Otherwise, the systems can get you very close to the right aim on most equipment.
Some folks just see angles and inertial drift, etc. I shoot fast and negate most drift... unless I want it, that is. Here is an example... ua-cam.com/video/u6su0nJgCbU/v-deo.html
BTW, if you want to learn more about any of the systems, see the videos, links, and info here: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/ Enjoy!
So Dr. Dave, I have a serious question about banking. I’ve always used the mirror image as a rough reference when shooting banks and then adjust from there. I grew up setting bottles around the pool room that coincided with the mirror image of the imaginary table next to mine. That worked for me. Recently another old timer started showing me the mirror technique in regards to the object ball where he would aim the object ball into the pocket (still talking about banking) and then mirror over to the opposite spot on the said object ball and then aim there for the bank. On long shots he is at least 70%. Do you have any thoughts about this quick, and I would say useful, technique? Be well Sir.
Many of us play largely on Diamond tables. If they play short, do you have either a different system of a conversion method that would apply to Diamonds?
Studies have shown on most tables with 860 Simonis cloth banks come up short. Why haven't you mentioned that? Or does speed play a more consistent role?
I have Simonis 860 HR on my table and it doesn't play short. Do you have links to the "studies" you mentioned? Many factors (including speed) affect how balls kick and bank per the info and demos here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
Dr. Dave, have your seen Florian "Venom" Kohler's newest trick shot video where he removed the felt from the bumpers and played trick shots against the plain rubber? It seems to defy physics! Can you please comment and explain how that video is possible? Please? Pretty please?
Yes, as long as there is no double kiss, and as long as you compensate for cut-induced spin transfer when necessary. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/one-third-more-than-twice/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/double-kiss/ Enjoy!
Why do we aim at the diamonds and not the bumper to calculate angle? Does aiming for the diamond naturally compensate for the squish in the bumper and the forward ball roll or something?
Yes. Aiming through the diamonds automatically corrects for how the CB goes longer at larger angles (mostly due to topspin roll forward after rebound). Although, some systems require measuring in the rail groove. For example, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/twice-plus-tenths/
Ok guys, ive looked until i was blue in the face. Im looking for a particular Dr Dave video in whicj he teaches an aiming trick for a kick. It has something to do with using your cue to measure the distance from the object ball to the rail, then placing your fingers on the cue where it meets the rail and backing up until the tip of the cue is at the felt line on the rail. He then uses his thumb from the back end of the cue in order to see where the cue ball needs to touch on the rail in order to make said shot or kick. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
Dr. Dave I think you may find this interesting. A while back a pool player I was talking to and learning from handed me the cue ball and a solid ball and said " put them anywhere on the table as long as: 1. Both balls are at least a diamond away from a rail. 2. They are at least a diamond away from each other. 3. They are not on a vertical or horizontal staight line from to each other. Then I could pick any pocket on the table and he would make the shot. He proceeded to make every shot in the pocket I designated from any position (within the rules above) I failed to stump him. And I really want to be this proficient to do this. He has since moved away. I am around 525 fargo and I want to learn this skill. Obvious long and short rail banks and kicks. And I know the plus 2 system but that system doesnt work if your shooting from the short rail into the long rail for banking and kicking. What would you recomend I study to have the nessisary knowledge to do this? Is there a recommended combination of your videos that if mastered should provide a of the nessisary information that would arm me for any position for any called pocket within the rules above.? Thank you for reading this and thank you for your consideration and everything you do. Ive been a fan of yours almost since the begining. Thank you I hope to hear back. Sincerely, Jan Collard
@@jancollard8802 I recommend first mastering the banking systems in the videos at the bottom of the page here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ Also master “twice plus tenths,” “two-rail banks,” and “reference tracks” linked on the page.
Thank you so much Dr. Dave I will do so. And after that if I get stumped I see if you can help. P.S. I'll bet you could perform this "proposition" pretty handily
@@DrDaveBilliards Its a good thing for me we were just doing it for fun. LOL. By the way what position and what pocket in this proposition would be the hardest in your opinion?
@@jancollard7189 That depends on the person and which types of banks give them the most trouble. I would think any multi-rail bank would be the most troublesome.
If you practice them and see how effective they can be (with enough practice), you will remember them, especially the visual equal-distance and mirror systems that don’t require any numbers or calculations.
I have a Valley Panther 8' table. Every time you say a system will play short on a diamond, it seems this table plays short. Is it geometry or rail material that makes them play short?
For why Diamond tables play short, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond A table can also play shorter due to worn and dirty cloth and humid conditions.
I play on a Diamond 3-4 times a week and Gold Crowns the rest of the week. Banking is definitely different on the two! Every once in a while I’ll forget which table I’m on and miss a bank by a half diamond or so. Lol.
Some of the Diamonds I've played on bank up to 3/4 diamond short on some banks. For more info and demonstrations, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks, Dr. Dave. I’ll be sure to check that out, then try to incorporate it into my game. And I’ve missed some by that much as well. One time I badly missed two in a row and was going to complain to my home pool hall about their table having a dead rail, then remembered I was on a Diamond. Lol. What I noticed about the 1/3 more than twice method is that’s exactly how I change my angles when I am on a Gold Crown after playing on a Diamond: I add about that much extra angle. It’s like it has something to do with science or something. 🤣🤣🤣
@@DrDaveBilliards How does the number system work 10,20,30?..are they degrees.. I don't use diamonds? and have never seen a table with diamonds here in NZ!.. can you point me in the right direction how those numbers work.. thanks 🙂🇳🇿
@@DrDaveBilliards Do you like the pockets? Mine are but wide and sometimes the ball rattles out. Not sure if that's ok or should I have purchased a table with tighter pockets. I am newer to the sport.
@@wojo9732 I do not like the pockets because they look huge in my videos but they play very tight with certain shots (mostly with fast speed at a shallow angle to the rail).
I would love to see you do Stan Shuffet's CTE system on banking compared to yours. To me Stan's system seems easier to me at least and speed seems to affect it much less on bank shots.
Whatever bank shot aiming system you use, you still need to adjust for speed, cut, and spin-transfer effects. For more info and demos, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
@@hustlinao1488 Bending a bank is actually extremely difficult and not very practical. Although, stiffening, shortening, or twisting a bank is very straightforward. For more info, see: ua-cam.com/video/9br8xdXEs7g/v-deo.html and: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/bending/ Sometimes, what looks like a "bend" is not.
Yeah, I found this very useful. But unfortunately, I still wasn’t able to play/practice pool due to the COVID-19 cases in Malaysia 🇲🇾. In addition, there’s the police tape barrier that leads to the pool hall with a non-smoking area. So I cannot go to the pool hall or pass the police tape barrier to go to my favorite pool hall any time soon.
What if the cue ball is not situated at the 1/3 more than two spot? Do i just have to hit the object ball right where it's supposed to be hit from 1/3 more than two? I hope I correctly wrote what I meant. Oh. You addressed it. Thanks.
Watch the video again. I cover this is the "Shots Between System Reference Lines" and "Game-Situation Examples" sections. This video is really packed with lots of good info, and multiple viewings are recommended. Even better, try everything I demonstrate on a table.
@@commandernoodles2367 That’s good practice, but it’s really not a “drill.” Here are some examples of bank shot “drills:” billiards.colostate.edu/faq/drill/bank/
I must be dumb as a box of rocks. I thought that determining where the object ball will hit the rail is what a system is for 😓 if both balls are away from rails at 2 random positions, I don't understand how to use the diamonds & lines to calculate the shot line I need. I'll get some sleep and sit down with pencil & paper again sketching lines but if anyone could clear up my confusion mentioned above, I'd sure appreciate it. ty either way 👋🙂
@@JimmyMatis-h9y If the CB and OB are in random positions, the easiest systems to use are the visual equal-distance and mirror systems demonstrated here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
I experimented. Playing a draw kick shortens the angle. Playing follow ball on the kick lengthens the angle. Running english lengthens the angle. A check shot shortens the angle. This means a follow check should be the same as a draw run. But the running English takes over. Why? Is it that I am not hitting enough draw?
The physics is complicated. It is tougher to get full backspin at the cushion, as compared to full topspin with follow. But backspin can curve the post rebound path more. And everything (including the effect of sidespin) varies with the angle into the cushion, speed, and cloth conditions. FYI, all kick/bank effects are documented and demonstrated here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/ Reverse-follow and Running-draw are difficult to judge; but, fortunately, they are rarely necessary in play.
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you! I was just trying to do the reverse bank a la Efren. I get with follow but I wanted to see if I could get it draw with compensatory English if needed.
@@IndianHeathen1982 Are you talking about the Z-shot? If so, see my "Why EFREN’S Z-SHOT is so Legendary, and Bending-Kick Follow-Up" video: ua-cam.com/video/cwD8rmHHNec/v-deo.html and my "Was the Z-SHOT Efren’s Best Option?" video: ua-cam.com/video/zwDWlpSJpeY/v-deo.html Regardless, it is always easier to roll kicks and adjust the angle with sidespin alone when possible.
@@judybradshaw9340 The visual systems here do not require diamonds: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/midpoint/ billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/contact-point-mirror/
This is a very important effect to understand if you want to be successful with bank shots. For more info and demos, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/cut-induced-spin/
@@DrDaveBilliards yeah i understand i was just surprised at alot of the misses and didnt understand if it was nerves causing poor form/stroke. Pulling up on his shots, ect. Thanks
My problem is I don’t understand what you mean by 3 to 1 system and 2 to 1 system. Because if I can understand what it means I will be able to calculate it easily
I understood the the 2 to 1 explanation very well but I didn’t understand what you meant by 1/3 … if you can make a video explanation of the calculation while showing examples it will be awesome. What you are explaining is something only people who know about the 1/3 system will understand to be candid. Thanks
The video has a lot to take in all at once; but if you spend time with each system, you will see the value (even if you just use one or two of them). The links in the video description and pinned comment can also help a lot.
to me, the system is like a trick shot it pre set up you know you're going to make it. In a real game, the angles vary too much as well as the speed & Shape for your next shot, this doesn't really apply. Like the old saying goes Looks Good in Theory But not so much in a real-world application.
Things definitely change with the game situation and conditions; but if you are aware of the effects and have practiced with the systems, you can use them effectively. For more info, see: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
Either way, this would probably be better done by somebody who has wheelchair experience. Concerning fundamentals and pool principles, almost everything is the same for a wheelchair and non-wheelchair players.
You always have a lot of pool knowledge to share for which I am grateful, but I am a little disappointed with this video . The title said the ONE system I need to know and you have shown three?
@@briangauthier5802 That is part of my point. There is one one system that works for every kick shot. All the systems in this video are useful in different situations.
A lot more info and detailed videos for each system can be found here: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/ It might also help to watch the video several times and practice only one thing at a time.
If you want a slower pace or more info on any of the topics covered, see the links in the video description and pinned comment. They cover everything in more detail.
*Contents:*
0:00 - Intro
0:39 - 2-to-1 System
2:19 - Bank and Kick Effects
5:50 - 1/3-More-Than-Twice System
8:10 - 1-More-Than-Twice System
10:54 - Shots Between System Reference Lines
13:33 - Kicks and Banks off Short Rails
15:01 - Game-Situation Examples
17:08 - Summary
*Supporting Resources:*
- bank and kick shot aiming system tutorial: billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/
- bank and kick shot effects and adjustments: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
- checking out how a table kicks and banks: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/testing/
- adjustments for Diamond brand tables: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond
- rolling-CB kick shot diamond system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/two-to-one/
- 1/3-more-than-twice bank shot diamond system: billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/fast-system/
- recommended full-length instructional videos covering all important kick and bank system, with lots of examples:
---- How to Aim Pool Shots (HAPS) Vol. III: drdavebilliards.com/videos/aiming/disc-iii/
---- Video Encyclopedia of Pool Shots (VEPS) Vol. IV: drdavebilliards.com/videos/veps/disc-iv/
---- Video Encyclopedia of Pool Practice (VEPP) Vol. IV: drdavebilliards.com/videos/vepp/disc-iv/
Sorry Dr. Dave, I wrote before I watched the whole video. Keep up the great work we all appreciate it.
Could u please get efrain on your channel to teach me this
@@Daforealkindastuf It would be awesome to have Efren on my channel, but it is unfortunately not easy to do. Also, Efren probably doesn't use systems much since his intuition is so awesome due to countless hours of smart practice and successful experience (and special talent), so he is probably not the best at teaching systems.
Best explanation I have found on UA-cam so far. Many others won't even explain whether to aim at the diamond or the edge of the rail where the diamond is, nor will they explain what part of the pocket is the diamond, or how speed effects everything, or how distance from the cushion effects the shot as well. Result is that I watched other videos and then failed to make any bank shots when I think I'm doing just what they said!
I'm glad you liked it. Thanks for the feedback, and good luck with your game.
I love Dr Dave, woohoo 😘❤️🌝🔥
Thank you! I appreciate the support.
listen to dr Dave again and again and again to find true knowledge and confidence...
As always, I fine your video's a little late. But better late than never! I keep comming back to your videos to refresh my mind. And game! BIG THANKS Dr. Dave!!!!!!!!!! You also have the best videos on the market bar none!
Thanks! I’m glad you like my stuff.
I love this system. Dr Dave has done it again. It does sound complex but pool and physics based games are complex. They just need to be practiced. You did such a great job making this video and instructing the system.
I'm glad you liked the video. FYI, all the systems in this video (and many more) are covered in detail here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
I know this video is old but to any beginners out there who are watching this and really confused about how this all works, don’t give up! I’m a beginner as well and I was really confused about how this all worked but as I’ve watched this again and again, I find that I understand it better each time.
Same goes for videos about side spin, it might not make sense at first but just try things out over time and rewatch the videos and it’ll start to click at some point. Don’t be frustrated by how complicated it seems at first.
@@bradyS5632 Thank you for posting this. It might help some people. I’m glad you have found some of my stuff helpful.
Your such a good player and person
Thank you 😊 for introducing me in the best table game
Appreciate the time stamps too
Really helped me
Thanks. I’m glad you liked it.
Doc I gotta tell ya.. Man you've made my day. these are the best instructions I have ever seen on how to shoot all the shots.
Man I've been eye-ballin it for over sixty (60) years, and NOW I KNOW HOW TO DO IT>> GOD bless ya man. The best instructions
I've ever seen. THANX A LOT MAN.
I'm happy to hear it. You're welcome. FYI, I have a lot more info and many more videos dealing with banks and kicks here (especially at the bottom of the page):
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
Enjoy!
Genius, the highest level of knowledge is being able to teach. Great execution DrDave
Thanks!
I really appreciate the extra time spent for the bookmarks👍
I’m glad at least one person appreciates the bookmarks. I actually use them quite a bit myself when searching for stuff in past videos.
You’re the best pool teacher on UA-cam. So thorough. You always answer the questions I have.
I'm glad to hear it. Thanks.
Just got back in to pool. Was a decent player back when i played, decent as in i could make my shots, but had no help of any kind. I never understood the diamonds before, but this is a tremendous help. The dark days before everything was on UA-cam lol, thanks again
I'm glad you found the video helpful.
Excellent instruction. Went out and practiced this and then came back and watched it again. Makes even better sense.
Thank you. That's a smart way to use videos like this. Good job.
I used to watch your old slow motion videos when I was a kid 13 years ago. It is great that you still make videos today. Also, great video.
I’m glad to hear it. Thanks.
So much information packed into this video that most of it flew over my head
This video is not meant for just a single view. If you want to use the info in your game, multiple viewings (and practicing each things separately) are required. And if you want more help and info on any of the individual topics, visit the links in the video description and pinned comment for more videos and other resources.
THE MAN, THE MYTH , THE DR.DAVE
Your tutorials are excellent, thanks for the help!
Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
This is exactly the video I was looking for. Great examples of how different inputs result in different outcomes.
I’m glad you liked it. If you want more, see the links and videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
I deeply enjoy Dave putting in the occasional meme clips. It really spruces up the video :)
I'm glad you watched long enough to enjoy my meme insertions. I suspect many viewers don't watch that long (unfortunately so, for them).
@F X These systems work in all games and on all tables; although, some adjustment will be required for conditions, especially on Diamond brand tables. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/testing/
Thank you for all your videos! They helped me improve my pool game greatly!
You’re welcome. I’m glad to hear it.
Thank you for the refresher course. Hard to explain to beginner players but because multiple rail kicks self adjust , one rail kicks to the middle of the table are more difficult to see and explain. And of course you really need to know where the Centerline of the ball is! Thanks so much DOCTOR DAVE!! The Sid system is vety cool and accurate also on some limited kicks.
Good points. FYI, to those interested, I have Sid System info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Sid/
Amazing.
A quick and concise way of learning to use the diamonds...you saved me loads of time!
I'm glad to hear it. If you want to learn more, I have lots of videos and other resources on this topic here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/
and here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
Enjoy!
Always enjoy your videos sir! I got a question: at 03:26 , what do you mean when you say "under or centered over the cusion" ? I understood everything till this point of time. Not getting how you referred to making banks and kicks at medium and high speeds.
At medium speed, he tip is placed either under the cushion (on the table) or on top of the cushion (in the middle), so the reference line is between the line of diamonds (slow) and the rail groove (fast). All three lines are illustrated in this document:
billiards.colostate.edu/resource_files/mirror_kicking.pdf
Thanks for all your work putting this together. I have a better understanding why balls closer to the rail sometimes come off at unexpected angles.
I'm glad you found it useful.
One system I like to use, which is similar to your one more than twice through the diamonds is this: I practice my kicks with slow rolling cue ball without any side spin. (Dead Ball, only center ball to 2 tips of high (no side spin)). I practice this for one-rail, and two-rail kicks. Once I know how to get to the pockets with slow rolling cue ball, I introduce an object ball. I find that I can then adjust my aim for the cue ball in 1/2 a diamond. I find the point on the wall for this new angle and I aim the object ball at this point on the wall, using medium to medium hard speed to bank it into the pocket, either via 1 or 2 rails. For 1-rail banks, this matches up with your 1 more than twice. And as you mentioned, as the angles open up wider, 1/2 a diamond becomes too much and you need to lessen it a bit. If the object ball is near the rail, I use English to put running spin on the object ball to help it roll off the rail to stay on the correct track-line. Most of the time I use your 1/3rd more than twice method for 1 rail banks; however, for my stroke and the speed I like to hit, I can aim through the diamonds instead of across from the diamonds using this system.
If it works for you, that's all that matters.
The doctor every pool player needs from time to time. Thanks Dave.
You're welcome. My prescription is to practice more (after watching the videos). :)
You made banking easy to understand! Great video as always!
I’m glad you think so. Thank you!
Fantastic demonstrations as always. Thank you for frequent uploads and tips! Very glad I stumbled upon your channel.
Thanks, and you're welcome. I hope you enjoy and benefit from my video library (over 440 videos) and new stuff.
Thanks!
Thank you! I appreciate your support.
I got it, I got it... Nothing but net... lol DR. Dave you are a very good instructor. Thank you
Thank you, and you’re welcome.
Dr Dave, concerning the 1/3 more system , I have also noticed I can aim at 1/3 of the object ball , rather than aiming straight on the object ball in banking most of these shots...That is when straight on with a 4 to 2, or a 3 to 1 1/2 track. It does change a bit with wider tracks. Speed seems to be key here,
When cutting the ball, you also need to compensate for cut-induced spin, which also varies with shot speed and CB spin. FYI, all the factors that require adjustment with kicks and banks are listed and demonstrated here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
One thing that's giving me problems is my table, it's a 1950 Brunswick 9' and it's got the original rubber on it. That's
probably why my angles are a little different than yours, but the system is the same. I can't wait to see how my new table will play.
Thanx again Doc, you're the best!
@@stevenaconnelly-dd8fdWhat kind of table did you get?
Such a good explanation. Thanks Dave!
Thank you, and you're welcome. I aim to swerve. :)
Thank you so much for big efforts you make to help us learn billiard in an easy way thank you from Morroco
You're welcome from USA.
I keep learning something new from Dave. .3 plus twice is a nice quick way to compensate. I do miss some kicks and banks using the twice the angle approach which leaves me baffled. I am very accurate but the cut induced throw or speed of the shot may be moving me off enough. More to learn!
If you want to learn more, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
Enjoy, and good luck!
Nice job. Very comprehensive as usual.
Thanks!
Very well put again Dave! pure gold for those that want really improve banking and kicking :)
Thanks. I hope the people who can really benefit from this stuff will have the patience to actually watch and try out the stuff in the video.
Easy method For banks)... line up directly on the axis of the ball pair, then look at the angle to the rail and "see" if it will be too wide or too short to make the target, adjust angle accordingly and get (or learn) a "feel" for how much to add or detract from the ball pair axis to get the shot. Eventually it becomes automatic and your brain does the work without table examination calculations. I have many examples of doing it but have done no explanatory videos as yet. Click my name or... ua-cam.com/video/u6su0nJgCbU/v-deo.html
I've 'developed' my own system years ago which approximates the 1/3 system quite well. I could call it the percentage system. I don't measure from the rail groove, but through the diamonds, add the numbers and substract 3% for every diamond to compensate for the railgroove/diamond distance on an angle, so 3% for 1, 6% for 2 and 9% for 3 etc. It has helped me quite well over the years, but calculating can get a bit difficult for kicks that are not aimed at a pocket. I'll practice the 1/3 system on my table, it sounds easier.
The best system for sliding banks is the “twice plus tenths” system:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/twice-plus-tenths/
I use that now instead of the 1/3-more-than-twice system. It is even more accurate and works well over a wide range of angles. Check, it out.
@@DrDaveBilliards Will do, thnx. I've stopped playing for almost 10 years (twice a year at most) but I'm feeling a new spark lately and dusted off my table. It's almost like riding a bike, you never forget.
edit: Omg, yes that's almost the system I came up with! (I substract because I measure from the other side, you should indeed add if it's the other way around. 0 to 2 gives 4 +10%= 4,4. But 4,4 -10% = 4, to 2 gives 0) The reason I increased the percentage per diamond is that I came short for higher angles a lot of times. It's reassuring to see that I was indeed on to something. Had some discussions in the past with an oldschool player who didn't calculate anything but just learnt every possible angle by heart, and he basically said I was full of s...
edit2: I see you still use the rail grooves. Maybe that's why my system is a bit different. I use the diamonds.
@@Faxie83 I wanted to measure through the diamonds, but the rail groove measurement resulted in a better system over a wider range.
@@DrDaveBilliards Ok that's good to know. I'll experiment with the system this weekend. Shouldn't be too hard to adapt from diamond to groove. Thnx.
Does anyone know if our good Dr. has a Fargo rating? Also I wonder if he ever plays competitively or in tournaments?
If he's familiar with playing in situations like that, I wonder if he would consider sharing his wisdom, thoughts or any tips he thinks would be valuable to those of us with very little experience outside of banging around on a bar box...
Does any of that make sense? I'm battling some bad insomnia and a foggy brain since I quit drinking two months ago... Probably shouldn't be pestering youtube while I'm delirious like this 😂
Oh and I cannot overstate how great it's been to have the good Dr. share such a wealth of knowledge with us. I only started playing 4 years ago and every step of the way these videos have really helped me stay motivated and positive. Honestly, if I hadn't found this channel when I first started playing, I might not have stayed interested and given up. I blame Dr. Dave for singlehandedly helping create the strong love for the game I have now 💪💪💪🔥🔥🔥🎱🎱🎱
I do not have a FargoRating. I play only in VNEA leagues and tournaments and they don't participate in FargoRate (much to my dismay). My Fargo Rate would probably be in the 650-670 range, per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/rating/
Videos of me playing can be found near the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/dr-dave/
Advice on how to play competitively can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/mental/
and here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/improving/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/advice/pro/
Enjoy!
Hey Dr. Dave, I saw you answer to a question on the grip in the comments saying your personally fulcrum finger is the middle finger. I seen the article on the website addressing how to grip the cue using the index and thumb and the rest of the fingers is supporting it.
How would this differ if your fulcrum is your middle finger and thumb, and what should your ring, pinkie and index fingers should be doing?
Do you personally slightly let go of the pressure on your index finger when following through your stroke, but at the same time your rest of your fingers is still holding the cue? I noticed Sam who was in your top 10 secrets of good draw shot. When Sam was following through her stroke on 7. Keeping your grip relaxed 8:37 her index finger appears to be slightly sticking out. I also do that because i think it makes my cue go straighter on my follow through. Thank you
See the videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/grip/technique/
I think that covers everything fairly well. The best advice is to not think about it too much and just make sure the grip and wrist stay as relaxed as possible during the entire stroke. Let the fingers do what they need to do to allow the cue to pivot in the grip.
@@DrDaveBilliards should the rest of my fingers not including my thumb and fulcrum middle finger. Should they be wrapped around my cue and touching my palm?
@@kollomalloff469 It depends on the person and how long their fingers are. The fingers should generally be gently wrapped around the cue. See my previous post for more info.
Good info. Wish Diamond tables were not the trend. Everyone wants to play on a "pro table" but Brunswick tables are more fun to play on.. more cue ball control, bank more true, can hit firmer on rail shots and more draw.
Class presented and I could learn a lot again. Best greetings Heiko
Thank you. I'm glad you found it helpful.
I have bought your videos, they have helped me immensely! The one I have hoped for is straight back banks. If you have a system for that I for one would greatly appreciated the video! DO YOU?????
I cover that in the "Kicks and Banks off Short Rails" section of the video, starting at 13:33. Check it out. For straight-back banks, adjusting for cut-induced-throw is often important. See the "Bank and Kick Effects" section starting at 2:19 for that.
Always nice to learn new pool techniques!
Thank you sir!
You’re welcome!
Dave can you do a video on how Effern Reyes played and pocketed the 10 ball when he call that he was playing the 10 ball 1, 2, 3 rails. The shot was made in Reyes/Stricklin farewell tour in Gemany.
I already have it covered in the videos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/twice-across/
Check it out.
Dr Dave!! Do you have any idea how many players you help? You are amazing! Keep up the great work!
I hope a lot. Thanks!
Great Video Dr Dave...
Thanks! I think this is the best bank/kick video I've ever done ... and I've done many!
@DrDaveBilliards, you know how when aiming the cue ball straight to a diamond with half a tip of right spin, it will make the cue ball go 1 diamond to the right. What if the cue ball hits an object ball first, assuming the same angle into the rail, does it still go 1 diamond to the right? I'm assuming no since some of the spin is lost after the cue ball contacts an object ball? If so, is there a system to calculate that spin loss/gain?
Everything is different when hitting an object ball. The effect of the sidespin depends on many things including the cut angle, the angle into the cushion, and table conditions. There is no simple “formula,” but it helps to understand all the principles and effects here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/effects/
It also helps a great deal to work on sidespin drills:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/sidespin/drills/
I notice that you are using a balance rite shaft extension,is your cue warped with that extension on because the extension's top and bottom flat pieces are not completely level ??
I don't think my cue is warped at all. I chose that extension because I liked the weight and length. Even if it did add a slight warp, it honestly wouldn't bother me. My tip is still going to hit the CB where I am aiming.
@@DrDaveBilliards I really liked that 20 8 ball runouts video,could you do the same video but with 9 ball and 10 ball with the break shot explanation part In the begining
FYI, I already have some good 9-ball break strategy videos and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/9-ball/
And I cover the 10-ball break in detail here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/break/10-ball/
Enjoy!
The diamond tables with the red background in their logo on the head rail bank short, the new diamonds with blue background on the logo has fixed the short bank problem and will bank same as any other table now. The rail contact point of the original diamonds was to high resulting in contact with a smaller radius of the ball causing banks to come off short.
FYI, I have info about this here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond
You are right about the red-label Diamonds banking ridiculously short. The only blue-label I have ever tested also banked much shorter than most tables, but not as short as the red-label Diamonds.
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you for more info on the subject, I didn’t even know there is a black label! Was sure you knew about new vs old, wanted to help anyone that did not. Only two tight pocket tables at my room are GC and blue diamond and I play on both never thinking about a difference, I’m on way to hall now and first thing I’m gonna do is take note so I’m aware instead of shooting on instinct. Thanks again Dr. 🎱🤑
The beginning of this video was spot on. I have been using that system for years and got so used to it,,I can figure out the exact spot on the rail needed very quickly. You can break that down into 1/8s and find the exact spot no matter where the balls sit.
I dont care for the plus 1/3 at all when it can be done as I described with nothing more needed.
Hey Dr. Dave, question if your fulcrum grip for your cue is your middle finger. Should the thumb be supporting your fulcrum grip middle finger? Also should you have wrist action on your pendulum stroke? Thank you
My fulcrum is on the middle finger, but some people have it on the index or ring finger. Concerning wrist action, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/stroke/wrist/
DR. Dave, in your opinion, what is the best table out there ?
Diamond, Olhausen , Brunswick, Rasson ?!? Perhaps another lesser known brand ?
I'm talking in terms of how well it plays, so things like price, looks, longevity are not relevant.
So can you please state the best one you've player on.
Sorry, but I don't really have an opinion on this. All the tables you listed are of good quality and play well. My only complaint about Diamonds (which are high quality tables) is that the cushions play too short and too fast (compared to most other pool tables) per the info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond
@@DrDaveBilliards
Thanks. Regarding Diamond tables, I like fast cloths, but banking short does not sound good. Perhaps it's due to the rubber they use for the rails/cushions.
@@michaeltrumph121 See the link above for more info.
Hi! Is there a way you could further explicate what you mean by "aiming thru the diamond"?
I am trying to follow but I am not sure. To me, w/o any further knowledge, it appears that "aiming thru the diamond" from starting point is just a few degrees different than when "aiming at a rail"....
Thank you in advance 🙏🏻
See:
ua-cam.com/video/GaWnmePhmuA/v-deo.html
This is genius. How did I just see this!!!!!!
Thanks. I'm glad you found it.
Thank you, that was very helpful. Although, i play on diamond tables :) also most of the time one needs to get shape on a ball that requires some kind of spin. Or back cut bank a ball. I think all systems are great references but it all comes down to feel and practice! My opinion at least!
Good point. A lot of "feel" is required when adjusting to different equipment and when there is a cut angle or when you are using spin. Otherwise, the systems can get you very close to the right aim on most equipment.
Some folks just see angles and inertial drift, etc. I shoot fast and negate most drift... unless I want it, that is. Here is an example... ua-cam.com/video/u6su0nJgCbU/v-deo.html
As a Philly native, I got a kick out of the AI clip. Pun intended.
I’ve been wanting to use that for a while. I never get tired of seeing that whole interview. I remember seeing it live.
Practice?
Dr. Bob Ross of pool. It’s not Saturday morning after cartoons but but this is blowing my mind.
I used to love watching that guy in TV, so I take that as a huge compliment.
BTW, if you want to learn more about any of the systems, see the videos, links, and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/
Enjoy!
It was meant to be a compliment Sir. Thank you for your videos. Be well Dr. Dave.
Thanks.
So Dr. Dave, I have a serious question about banking. I’ve always used the mirror image as a rough reference when shooting banks and then adjust from there. I grew up setting bottles around the pool room that coincided with the mirror image of the imaginary table next to mine. That worked for me.
Recently another old timer started showing me the mirror technique in regards to the object ball where he would aim the object ball into the pocket (still talking about banking) and then mirror over to the opposite spot on the said object ball and then aim there for the bank. On long shots he is at least 70%. Do you have any thoughts about this quick, and I would say useful, technique?
Be well Sir.
Many of us play largely on Diamond tables. If they play short, do you have either a different system of a conversion method that would apply to Diamonds?
See the video and info here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond/
Studies have shown on most tables with 860 Simonis cloth banks come up short. Why haven't you mentioned that? Or does speed play a more consistent role?
I have Simonis 860 HR on my table and it doesn't play short. Do you have links to the "studies" you mentioned? Many factors (including speed) affect how balls kick and bank per the info and demos here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
Dr. Dave, have your seen Florian "Venom" Kohler's newest trick shot video where he removed the felt from the bumpers and played trick shots against the plain rubber? It seems to defy physics! Can you please comment and explain how that video is possible? Please? Pretty please?
Those shots are bizarre. The explanation is simple. The spin reacts a lot, lot more on bare rubber compared to cloth-covered rubber.
Does the 1/3 more than twice work for frozen to the rail as well?
Yes, as long as there is no double kiss, and as long as you compensate for cut-induced spin transfer when necessary. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/one-third-more-than-twice/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/double-kiss/
Enjoy!
Why do we aim at the diamonds and not the bumper to calculate angle? Does aiming for the diamond naturally compensate for the squish in the bumper and the forward ball roll or something?
Yes. Aiming through the diamonds automatically corrects for how the CB goes longer at larger angles (mostly due to topspin roll forward after rebound). Although, some systems require measuring in the rail groove. For example, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/twice-plus-tenths/
Ok guys, ive looked until i was blue in the face. Im looking for a particular Dr Dave video in whicj he teaches an aiming trick for a kick. It has something to do with using your cue to measure the distance from the object ball to the rail, then placing your fingers on the cue where it meets the rail and backing up until the tip of the cue is at the felt line on the rail. He then uses his thumb from the back end of the cue in order to see where the cue ball needs to touch on the rail in order to make said shot or kick. Anybody got any ideas? Thanks.
That’s the “mirror system” covered here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
Dr. Dave I think you may find this interesting. A while back a pool player I was talking to and learning from handed me the cue ball and a solid ball and said " put them anywhere on the table as long as:
1. Both balls are at least a diamond away from a rail.
2. They are at least a diamond away from each other.
3. They are not on a vertical or horizontal staight line from to each other.
Then I could pick any pocket on the table and he would make the shot.
He proceeded to make every shot in the pocket I designated from any position (within the rules above) I failed to stump him. And I really want to be this proficient to do this. He has since moved away. I am around 525 fargo and I want to learn this skill. Obvious long and short rail banks and kicks. And I know the plus 2 system but that system doesnt work if your shooting from the short rail into the long rail for banking and kicking. What would you recomend I study to have the nessisary knowledge to do this? Is there a recommended combination of your videos that if mastered should provide a of the nessisary information that would arm me for any position for any called pocket within the rules above.? Thank you for reading this and thank you for your consideration and everything you do. Ive been a fan of yours almost since the begining. Thank you I hope to hear back. Sincerely,
Jan Collard
@@jancollard8802 I recommend first mastering the banking systems in the videos at the bottom of the page here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
Also master “twice plus tenths,” “two-rail banks,” and “reference tracks” linked on the page.
Thank you so much Dr. Dave I will do so. And after that if I get stumped I see if you can help.
P.S. I'll bet you could perform this "proposition" pretty handily
@@jancollard8802 Honestly, I certainly wouldn’t expect to be anywhere near 100% on a proposition that tough. Although, the systems help.
@@DrDaveBilliards Its a good thing for me we were just doing it for fun. LOL. By the way what position and what pocket in this proposition would be the hardest in your opinion?
@@jancollard7189 That depends on the person and which types of banks give them the most trouble. I would think any multi-rail bank would be the most troublesome.
Yass, another video!
I aim to swerve. :)
what kind of camera do you use for the recording? I just installed that light over my table.
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/video/dr-dave-production/
If I could remember all data and formulas ur giving, I would have been a world champ 👍🤭😁
If you practice them and see how effective they can be (with enough practice), you will remember them, especially the visual equal-distance and mirror systems that don’t require any numbers or calculations.
@@DrDaveBilliards u got a point 👍
I have a Valley Panther 8' table. Every time you say a system will play short on a diamond, it seems this table plays short. Is it geometry or rail material that makes them play short?
For why Diamond tables play short, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond
A table can also play shorter due to worn and dirty cloth and humid conditions.
I play on a Diamond 3-4 times a week and Gold Crowns the rest of the week. Banking is definitely different on the two! Every once in a while I’ll forget which table I’m on and miss a bank by a half diamond or so. Lol.
Some of the Diamonds I've played on bank up to 3/4 diamond short on some banks. For more info and demonstrations, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond
Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks, Dr. Dave. I’ll be sure to check that out, then try to incorporate it into my game. And I’ve missed some by that much as well. One time I badly missed two in a row and was going to complain to my home pool hall about their table having a dead rail, then remembered I was on a Diamond. Lol. What I noticed about the 1/3 more than twice method is that’s exactly how I change my angles when I am on a Gold Crown after playing on a Diamond: I add about that much extra angle. It’s like it has something to do with science or something. 🤣🤣🤣
Are you saying the blue labels bank short as well? I thought it was just the red labels that banked short.
The Red labels and 7' Diamond table bank really short. I haven't tested many blue labels; but the ones I did test banked short also.
How do you line up the shot when the cue ball and object ball aren't exactly in line?
Luv your vids!!
I'm glad to hear it. Thanks!
Great stuff! 👍
Thanks! This one was a lot of work, but I am happy with the result.
@@DrDaveBilliards How does the number system work 10,20,30?..are they degrees.. I don't use diamonds? and have never seen a table with diamonds here in NZ!.. can you point me in the right direction how those numbers work.. thanks 🙂🇳🇿
@@allgood6760 The diamonds divide the distances between the pockets by four. On a 9’ table, the diamonds are 12.5 inches apart.
On a table with no diamonds, the visual systems here will be more useful:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
Enjoy!
@@DrDaveBilliards Cool! 👍🇳🇿
What table do you have? It looks like the rails are the exact same as my olhausen Augusta. Thanks!
It is an Olhausen. I don’t know the model.
@@DrDaveBilliards Do you like the pockets? Mine are but wide and sometimes the ball rattles out. Not sure if that's ok or should I have purchased a table with tighter pockets. I am newer to the sport.
@@wojo9732 I do not like the pockets because they look huge in my videos but they play very tight with certain shots (mostly with fast speed at a shallow angle to the rail).
@@DrDaveBilliards Thanks for the response and information. You are a master at your craft and your videos HAVE helped me significantly lately.
@@wojo9732 You’re welcome, and thank you. I’m glad to hear my stuff has helped.
I would love to see you do Stan Shuffet's CTE system on banking compared to yours. To me Stan's system seems easier to me at least and speed seems to affect it much less on bank shots.
Whatever bank shot aiming system you use, you still need to adjust for speed, cut, and spin-transfer effects. For more info and demos, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
The best bankers i saw bent the object ball path to the pocket.
@@hustlinao1488 Bending a bank is actually extremely difficult and not very practical. Although, stiffening, shortening, or twisting a bank is very straightforward. For more info, see:
ua-cam.com/video/9br8xdXEs7g/v-deo.html
and:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/bending/
Sometimes, what looks like a "bend" is not.
Yeah, I found this very useful. But unfortunately, I still wasn’t able to play/practice pool due to the COVID-19 cases in Malaysia 🇲🇾. In addition, there’s the police tape barrier that leads to the pool hall with a non-smoking area. So I cannot go to the pool hall or pass the police tape barrier to go to my favorite pool hall any time soon.
Bummer. The US seems totally back to normal now.
@@DrDaveBilliards 😐
What if the cue ball is not situated at the 1/3 more than two spot? Do i just have to hit the object ball right where it's supposed to be hit from 1/3 more than two? I hope I correctly wrote what I meant. Oh. You addressed it. Thanks.
Watch the video again. I cover this is the "Shots Between System Reference Lines" and "Game-Situation Examples" sections. This video is really packed with lots of good info, and multiple viewings are recommended. Even better, try everything I demonstrate on a table.
@@DrDaveBilliards , yes you're right. Thank you.
@@DrDaveBilliards , i think bank pool (9 ball bank runout) is the best banking drill. Do you agree?
@@commandernoodles2367 That’s good practice, but it’s really not a “drill.” Here are some examples of bank shot “drills:”
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/drill/bank/
@@DrDaveBilliards thanks, man...
who did the outro music? Ross Gellar? Its proper funky!
It is auto-generated by my video editing software.
I must be dumb as a box of rocks. I thought that determining where the object ball will hit the rail is what a system is for 😓
if both balls are away from rails at 2 random positions, I don't understand how to use the diamonds & lines to calculate the shot line I need.
I'll get some sleep and sit down with pencil & paper again sketching lines but if anyone could clear up my confusion mentioned above, I'd sure appreciate it.
ty either way 👋🙂
@@JimmyMatis-h9y If the CB and OB are in random positions, the easiest systems to use are the visual equal-distance and mirror systems demonstrated here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
I experimented. Playing a draw kick shortens the angle. Playing follow ball on the kick lengthens the angle. Running english lengthens the angle. A check shot shortens the angle. This means a follow check should be the same as a draw run. But the running English takes over. Why? Is it that I am not hitting enough draw?
The physics is complicated. It is tougher to get full backspin at the cushion, as compared to full topspin with follow. But backspin can curve the post rebound path more. And everything (including the effect of sidespin) varies with the angle into the cushion, speed, and cloth conditions. FYI, all kick/bank effects are documented and demonstrated here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
Reverse-follow and Running-draw are difficult to judge; but, fortunately, they are rarely necessary in play.
@@DrDaveBilliards thank you! I was just trying to do the reverse bank a la Efren. I get with follow but I wanted to see if I could get it draw with compensatory English if needed.
@@IndianHeathen1982 Are you talking about the Z-shot? If so, see my "Why EFREN’S Z-SHOT is so Legendary, and Bending-Kick Follow-Up" video:
ua-cam.com/video/cwD8rmHHNec/v-deo.html
and my "Was the Z-SHOT Efren’s Best Option?" video:
ua-cam.com/video/zwDWlpSJpeY/v-deo.html
Regardless, it is always easier to roll kicks and adjust the angle with sidespin alone when possible.
If you are instead talking about one of several famous Efren spin-transfer banks, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/spin-transfer/
@@DrDaveBilliards spin transfer. Thank you! Z shot is cool but that I can figure out. (Fewer variables as compared to spin transfer.)
Dave you are a badass!
Thanks. I hope the video helps.
What is your donut sticker on the rail for?
First diamond long rail.
The rail donuts are for a CB control drill I do with students.
We do not have diamonds in Australia - how to aim without diamonds please
@@judybradshaw9340 The visual systems here do not require diamonds:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/mirror/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/midpoint/
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/contact-point-mirror/
Been playing pool for 5 years and never knew about cut induced spin
This is a very important effect to understand if you want to be successful with bank shots. For more info and demos, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/cut-induced-spin/
@@DrDaveBilliards Omg! I love you Dr. Dave.
@@deadpool-wp1eq Thanks for the love! And good luck with your game!
Video request: commentary/breakdown of Efren Reyes vs Mike Sigel $200k, 8 ball match. Thanks for the videos Doc.
I'll add it to my list, but it honestly won't be very high on my list since the match was so one-sided and not very exciting.
@@DrDaveBilliards yeah i understand i was just surprised at alot of the misses and didnt understand if it was nerves causing poor form/stroke. Pulling up on his shots, ect. Thanks
My problem is I don’t understand what you mean by 3 to 1 system and 2 to 1 system. Because if I can understand what it means I will be able to calculate it easily
See the links in the video description or pinned comment. They cover everything in detail.
I understood the the 2 to 1 explanation very well but I didn’t understand what you meant by 1/3 … if you can make a video explanation of the calculation while showing examples it will be awesome. What you are explaining is something only people who know about the 1/3 system will understand to be candid. Thanks
@@sunnaambele7555 I have videos covering this system here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/one-more-than-twice/
Thanks very much 🙏🏼
@@sunnaambele7555 You’re welcome. I aim to swerve. 😎
7’ Diamond tables seem to kick/bank perfect IMHO. 9’ diamonds seem to bank slightly short
My brain is currently bleeding.
The video has a lot to take in all at once; but if you spend time with each system, you will see the value (even if you just use one or two of them). The links in the video description and pinned comment can also help a lot.
to me, the system is like a trick shot it pre set up you know you're going to make it. In a real game, the angles vary too much as well as the speed & Shape for your next shot, this doesn't really apply. Like the old saying goes Looks Good in Theory But not so much in a real-world application.
Things definitely change with the game situation and conditions; but if you are aware of the effects and have practiced with the systems, you can use them effectively. For more info, see:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/effects/
Amazing that balls come up shot if they aren't rolling.
It is not so amazing if you understand the effect of topspin. Some remains after rebound, cause the ball to curve forward (in the long direction).
Would be nice if there was a strategy for those playing in a wheelchair. Or any tips for wheelchair players
Do you mean in general, or specifically for using kick and bank shot aiming systems?
Either way, this would probably be better done by somebody who has wheelchair experience. Concerning fundamentals and pool principles, almost everything is the same for a wheelchair and non-wheelchair players.
Çok güzel harika
Thank you. FYI, I have a lot more like this here:
billiards.colostate.edu/tutorial/kicks-and-banks/
Enjoy!
Hello
Hello
You always have a lot of pool knowledge to share for which I am grateful, but I am a little disappointed with this video
. The title said the ONE system I need to know and you have shown three?
@@briangauthier5802 That is part of my point. There is one one system that works for every kick shot. All the systems in this video are useful in different situations.
Maybe it's me but those rails seem awfully dead to me.
Definitely not lively that I can see.
Keith
They are certainly not bouncy like on Diamond tables.
@@DrDaveBilliards
Are the lively or bouncy is you say
Made of gum rubber ?
It seems like I read that one time.
Keith
@@KTHKUHNKK See:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/Diamond/
Sorry, I’m totally confused by all this.
A lot more info and detailed videos for each system can be found here:
billiards.colostate.edu/faq/bank-kick/
It might also help to watch the video several times and practice only one thing at a time.
geometry at its finest
Not interested in any system with the word “diamond” in it, for obvious reasons.
What are the "obvious reasons?"
A bit mind numbing.
If you want a slower pace or more info on any of the topics covered, see the links in the video description and pinned comment. They cover everything in more detail.