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Do I need a THICK or THIN kerf splitter/riving knife for my table saw blade?
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- Опубліковано 1 гру 2020
- A lot of folks are confused about this!
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I am near 70. I have been a self-proclaimed wood-wright (HEY! Y'ALL!! I'M A WOOD-WRIGHT, DANG IT!!! hee hee) for well over 50 years. I have been following you for a short while, and I have 'learned' more from you in that time than I have in the 50+ years before, mostly regarding safety... and 'kickback'!✨🤗✨
I like you, youngster. Thanks for what you bring to my eyeballs and ears.
59 3/4 here, and I agree completely!
Bloody kids cluttering up the comments.
I’m 78, and I’ve never been injured in my wood-shop. I attribute that to paying careful attention to safety.
This channel always reminds me of the saying that says the more you learn about something, the more you realise how little you knew about it. Always interesting content.
Man, when was the last time I heard truer words!
Although not quite the same thing, that reminds me of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Such a useful clarification, namely: the riving knife thickness does NOT need to equal the full width of the teeth to be usefully protective. It just needs to be thicker than the body of the saw blade. Your explanation as to WHY that is true is so logical. Another excellent, key detail, clearly and succinctly presented by James.
I am a trauma and critical care pharmacist and love to do woodworking on my spare time. I have subscribed to this channel for few months now and enjoy the videos about safety. The technical and tool review portions are also fun to watch and have learned new stuff from watching them. well done!!
Always great information. This channel should be an automatic for any new woodworker. It becomes a pleasure for an older woodworker. I always and I mean always learn something new in every video.
So how many Skiggly Stars do you award?
@@pawpawstew Based upon the extensive learning content supplied by every video I've watched, has to be in the hundreds. If you add the "Re-arrange-er-ritus" video, then add another 500 purely for the comical value.
Excellent detailed explanation, as usual.
Detailed, but in a way all of us can understand.
Why does anyone thumbs-down excellent videos such as this? Another great and useful video, James. Thank you.
Great advice! Clear and concise thank you. Now I have to find my splitter.
Excellent discussion James, thanks for taking the time and initiative to share it.
I can only repeat what I've said in the past; that you are one really smart woodworking dude. I continue to be impressed with how well you compact and explain really important info. I have a new-found respect for the riving knife!
I have learned so many things from this channel. Thank you for existing
Your explaination of kick back and the options to prevent that dangereous event from happening were greatly appreciated. Thank you
Great info, thanks Stumpy! You're right about the teeth contacting the board on exit. This always seems to be where the wood gets a little burned from time to time.
I always appreciate the 'Why' behind any of your recommendations/advice... and I always get it from you. Thanks, James, for your videos; I'm a pleased Subscriber!
Important information. Thanks for covering this. I had a minor table saw injury a few years ago. At least the 3 doctors I had to see kept telling me it was minor and how lucky I was. I didn't feel lucky, I felt foolish. It was on a 16 year old Delta contractor saw with no splitter or riving knife on it. Either one would have prevented my injury. Tools can be dangerous. Use the proper safety equipment and stay focused on the task at hand.
Great explanation James. Thank you for compiling such a useful (and valuable) video. 👍🏻
This great woodworking channel is on my speed dial for the great information when I need it......
Best insider tips in the industry, God sent!
Site saw with only the riving knife option for me [unfortunately] but I thought i'd give you a listen. As usual your clear and informative little chat brought a whole new understanding to me, this time about the relationship between plate, teeth and splitter/riving knife - knowledge is power. Thanks again James.
Just wanted to say thank you! I learn a lot from your videos. This one answered my question and gave me the information I was looking for before running out to purchase a think-kerf blade for my Sawstop. (Going to go buy that blade now). Hope I can return the favor sometime. Thank you-Chef Sam in Minneapolis:)
As always ya got me. "What do I need to know about splitter thickness I don't use my splitter" - because I started using a thin kerf blade and only have regular splitter that came lol. I FRIGGIN LOVE YA STUMPY!
Another pretty scary scenario I observed a riving knife save me from early in my learning process is one that doesn’t really rely on thickness at all.
It’s easy to convince yourself the cut is over and things are safe once the wood has passed through the blade completely and entirely cleared of its general vicinity, but if you relax and retrieve your workpiece recklessly, hitting the rear of the blade at that point, you’re catching it entirely from the back. The piece is absolutely going to lift and get kicked back at you, and it’s pretty much the perfect situation to drag your whole hand into the blade. Any riving knife prevents you from pulling a piece of wood you just cut back onto the rear of the blade well after you clear a cut, and feeling a piece hit that knife when I wasn’t using a blade guard was a real reality check for me in terms of safety.
@Big Crunch and even if you do clear the blade, there are still lots of opportunities to get sloppy, which is what happened to me here. At this point, my policy has become that I can never let my guard down and consider the task “done” until the saw is off and the blade is fully below the deck. If that makes a task more difficult, I just need to prepare better in advance.
One of the woodworkers I follow actually waits for the blade to stop completely - he does it repeatedly, it's a 'habit' - not sure if he shows it on purpose, but I noticed it - we're talking about a few seconds only, but they could have a life-long impact (will update if I remember).
Excellent advice James, thanks for sharing with us. Great explanation. Fred 👍👍👍👍👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
I've watched your videos for years, and learn something new from every single one of them. I go back to rewatch most of the videos more than once. You have the best woodworking channel on UA-cam, no question.
I recently upgraded from a thin to a full kerf blade for my old Craftsman saw, and was worried that I'd need to build a new zero-clearance throat plate with a thicker splitter. This is no trivial task with my saw, due to the complex nature of the throat plate mounting. Fortunately, with the information you provided, I believe I can reuse one of my thin-kerf ZCIs, as long as the splitter is still in line with the enlarged kerf made by the new blade.
Thanks for your thoughts on this issue James.
Great information & explanation, Thanks for the effort to get this right.
One time I inadvertently cut a board with extreme internal tension on my table saw. The splitter wasn't enough to stop the wood from pinching the blade so hard that it completely stalled the saw, but it was enough to prevent any dangerous kickback. I finished the cut on the band saw, and when I was done the two halves of the board I just ripped were bowed out more than an inch in the center. Then I threw the board in the firewood pile.
Always learning in this hobby - thanks!
Another well done video. No matter how many times you talk about table saw safety, I watch them every time. Any chance I get to point a new woodworker in your direction, I take it. They don't always appreciate the advice since their youtube degree and the fact they haven't had an accident yet means they must be doing it right...uhhg.
as usual, very informative. great work!
I was about to go searching for a "thin kerf riving knife" but then I decided to watch the whole video. Apparently, I'm learning to be more patient, who knew!
Another 70 + year old saying “well put”. Always a source of great info
I just bought a older Rockwell cabinet saw. really nice saw the splitter was not there. but it had a place for it. I asked the guy if he still had it. he said it was a safety hazard. wow I thought this guy owned this saw for almost 40 years and didnt understand what a splitter does. and still had all his fingers. thank you for making these videos. you I am sure save a lot of people a lot of pain.
Another great video that answered an "I wonder" question.. I currently use a wimpy jobsite saw, but it has excellent safety - my riving knife never comes out (Though it CAN be removed), it adjusts to 3 positions - all the way up, it also carries the kickback teeth AND the blade guard (Both of which are extremely quick and easy to remove and replace, so I have no excuse to not have them in there when not using a sled or doing dados, etc) It also adjusts halfway in, (which I dont remember why.. I never use that position, though it does serve as a splitter when using sled..) and then it can be fully sunk down behind the blade, (almost not even there, as noted, for dados, etc) .. takes just a second or two to lift out the insert, flip the lock and move it, re-lock and done.. Anyhoo.. back on what I was meaning to say - Because of that "wimpy" saw, it comes with, and manual says, to only use thin kerf blades anyways (because the small motor can't really handle a full kerf blade for very long) .. so my "I wonder" moment was wanting to use a "glue ready" blade (the ones that make glue-up ready cuts) but it may be a full kerf blade.. and/or at a future date, some specialty blades that only come as full kerf , for special cuts I may need to do.. and whether it would be a bad thing to run full kerf (just briefly for a cut or two) on a saw set up for a thin kerf blade... Think this video answers my question better than the manufacturer would have!
Thank you for teaching me new skills
Thanks for the clarification.
I just got my first table saw and it's truly scarier compared with most of my other woodworking tools because of the size of the blade, and honestly the amount of material to read and watch about how to use it, safety and dangerous mistakes that can happen on the machine is overwhelming... Thanks to your clear videos I feel a little more at ease knowing that I'm setting my table on the right way with all the proper safety features as should be, plus now I understand how that features and accessories will help when I'm cutting a board from 4" width to just 3", doing a rabbet or cutting centered grooves in a piece!
I enjoy learning a lot from your videos thank you so much....safety first
Excellent explanation.
Thanks amigo…exactly what I was looking for
thank you for this very informative video.
Hi James, Great information as always and explained in such a simple manner. Thank you. Cheers, Huw
Lots of information and thanks. There are some terminological distinctions that some saw makers make that can affect what we understand. I was always given to understand that a "splitter" does not ride up and down with the blade. My first saw was a Japanese hybrid saw with a "riving knife" and shims provided to align it to the blade if necessary. It was identical to what you are calling a splitter in the video, with anti-kickback palls. The forward arc of the "splitter/riving knife needed to be close - ca, 1/4 to 1/8 inch to the blade and maintained at that interval, regardless of blade position, just as a riving knife does. My adventures with kickback were all linked to kiln dried wood - usually yellow poplar - that picked up moisture in my shop. The slightlt damper external wood exnpanded and would grab a blade like a pair tongs. So, as long as the splitter/riving knife stays very close to the blade, the wood will pinch it rather than the blade. But, a thin-kerf riving knife used with a standard kerf blade can some times allow overly case hardened wood to pinch the blade before the riving knife or splitter can have any effect. This type of wood would be classed as "not permissible" by the U.S. Forest Products Laboratory, but you run into it in big box stores, especially when the wood is seasoned in one region and shipped across a continent to another. This - wood that is over dried - is actually one safety issue that isn't addressed often and is a common cause of potentially serious accidents.
Thanks, as always good and educational content!!
Great info, James. Thanks.
Unbelievable the timing on this. Just last night I was cutting 8/4 maple with the riving knife and thin Kurt rip blade. It was causing a bit of binding. Now I know why. Thx
Very interesting and informative video as most of your videos are.
Excellent explanation!
Thanks for clearing that up. Now I need to go read my blade guard for my sawstop jobsite saw.
Thank you for shading some light on the issue
Thanks a lot for all the tips, dude! 😊
I don't have a table saw yet, but I'm seriously thinking about getting it next... Probably in January. We'll see. 😊
Anyway, stay safe there with your family! 🖖😊
👍Thanks for making us think James.
I am a newer woodworker and continue to follow many of the other known greats(R. Cosman, C. Schwartz, N. Engler, P. Sellers, etc.....) but I learned quickly that if there is a particular topic I am researching and James has a video on it, I had better get his opinion on the subject.
Good presentation. Thanks
Great subject. Thank you
Very good video, Thanks
I had this same question after changing my table saw blade recently. Half way through the cut it jammed tight and I couldn’t push the piece through. My first thought was the Riving knife was too thick for the blade. It looked thicker than my narrow kerf blade. Fortunately I adjusted my fence slightly. It’s just an 8 foot piece of timber and I was able to carry on. Thanks for this video.
Thank u so much for ur advice.
great video. I always use the riving knife. ( unless using a dado blade.) When I started woodworking ( many years ago), I always used the splitter , blade guard and anti-kickback cowls. However, I had a couple of close calls where I believe tha splitter combination contributed to the problem. Firstly, because the blade guard and cowls extend away from the blade, there was a tendency to use the push stick closer to the fence than I would without the guard. Thus giving a greater chance to twisting and binding the wood. Second, the blade guards are never totally transparent. The opacity degrades over time and use making it difficult to see what is actually happening at the point where the blade and wood are interacting. Thirdly, occasionally the guard would not rise up to let wood pass through the front.. I would either have to lift the guard while pushing the wood through or use extra pressure to force it under the start of the guard. Both had potential safety issues. I'm all about safety but ( in my opinion) the blade guard and splitter combinations could be refined to correct these issues. Thanks for the video and I look forward to the next one.
Another great video 👍
Thank You For The Info!!!! 👊👍😎
One thing that you didn’t mention was that in most cases the riving knife and the splitter are usually installed so as to align parallel to the fence side of the blade.
Ignoring the teeth for the long rotating surface that constitutes the blade body is the biggest source of injury causing friction if a piece of wood shifts. Having a splitter or riving knife that is (or is nearly) parallel to that fence-side surface ensures that there is no pressure against the fence but that the wood has a stable surface to pass by that prevents any action against the moving parts.
As usual this was a really good video, even if there’s a lot of controversy about the topic, common sense goes a long way toward safe woodworking.
Thank you.
I am not sure if by "parallel to the fence side of the blade" you mean "flush to the fence side of the blade." But if that is what you are saying, that the riving knife must be set flush to the sides of the TEETH on the fence side of the blade or else, as you claim, it is "the biggest source of injury causing friction," then I would have to disagree and I explained why in the video. I am not sure about your saw, but my manual says to place a straight edge on the side of the blade (plate) but not on the teeth themselves. And that is the surface to which you align the riving knife flush. The teeth are allowed to stick out past it. Again, I explained why that is safe in this video.
No, I referred not to the teeth, but to the blade body, and you hit it exactly as I understand it in your response.
It don’t recall that being specifically addressed in the video (and since my saw came set up that way, it has not been something I’ve have to do more than check), I raised it in my comment.
Perhaps I missed it, being an old guy and all...
In my case, since the fence-side of the arbor and the riving knife/splitter are all coplanar to the fence side of the blade, a range of blade thicknesses as stamped on the splitter reassures to a greater degree than if it weren’t.
Again, I just don’t recall this being explicitly addressed.
Either way, great videos, sir! Now I’m going to open a cool one and enjoy the sunset...
I never thought about looking at the thickness of my blade guard. Thank you thousands of times. Will go check this IMMEDIATELY!
Took me days to get around to it but my splitter (with blade guard) is NOT suitable for thin kerf cuts. It's 2.55mm (2.5 - 2.6 mm). Sorry, I can't use my guard as a splitter.
Another great, informative video. Thanks.... and great haircut.
I didn't get a haircut.
@@StumpyNubs my bad! 🤓
@@StumpyNubs You mean you got a COVID-19 haircut!
I have nothing to say really, but I appreciate your content, and wish to help with the yt-algorithms.
Brilliant!
Thxs!
You might have mentioned this but I shoot pool while I watch vids so I might have missed it. If your riving knife is thicker than your kerf created by a "thin-kerf" blade you might not be able to get your work piece past the riving knife. Especially if it's not a through cut!
Yes, I mentioned it.
Bought an amana 10" that wont work with my splitter or knife! Thanks for the help!
I was just thinking on this yesterday while making riving knives with an old blade. Do I cut or keep the carbide tips? Maybe not as crucial as I thought.
The Diablo D1090X and similar WILL Bind on SawstopPCS and ICS, and dangerously. I recently went to rip a piece of MDF and got stuck a foot in and could not go forward nor, after turning the saw off, back the sheet out. It took white oak wedges and seriously dinging up the cut to dislodge it. If using Ultra fine tooth, thin kerf blades, take the riving knife or splitter off or plan on losing much time! The teeth on these finetooth blades measure exactly 2.3mm and will bind and stick.
BRILLIANT JOB. UK.
In my experience, worrying about the two sides of the cut pinching together is not worthwhile (at least in dry woods), so the most important thing is that the fence side of the riving knife lines up as well as possible with the fence side of the teeth. A few thin shims or washers (I've used those little hole punch reinforcement stickers before) on the open side can help to push a thinner knife over to make sure it's biased towards the fence instead of away from it if there's a larger discrepancy. When it comes to green wood though, I'd imagine the pinching would be more of a concern.
I have watched your videos for years on and off - really appreciate you! Liked this video a lot. I have had a saw stop for years, and I only use the riving knife. The splitter just seemed to be awkward and designed for more dust collection which I don't have, so I never used it. I am not making an argument, just explaining where I am at. My problem is that when I put big sheets of ply on my saw - it binds on the riving knife. It is very frustrating. I am pretty sure my saw is aligned properly - so I was thinking a think kerf riving knife must be the solution - but you said you did not get a think kerf riving knife for your sawstop and you are doing fine...do you have problems with binding on large sheet goods with your factory riving knife on your saw stop?
Thanks,
Matt
Always Informative James, Thank You.
Well that all makes sense.👍
I found that I can make a rip cut with a thin kerf blade using my full kerf riving knife, under two conditions: 1. The fence is on the left side of the blade, since that's the side that stays flush with that side of the knife. 2. The material on the side away from the fence is flexible enough to be slightly spread out by the knife.
The fence could be used on the right, if the knife has a lateral adjustment that allows flushing it up with the right side with the blade
James, what are your thoughts on shorter, European stye fences ? I've always understood that the fence is only needed up to the front teeth, or possibly the front gullet. These front to back fences are more likely to push the wood onto the back of the blade, particularly on fresh timber. If timber shakes, its more likely to move away from the cut, rather than into it. I appreciate that a fence fastened at both the front and the back of the table is mechanically superior, but I'm always surprised not to see more secondary fences, finishing at the front teeth.
Geee ... obsessing the 1/32 " difference in kerf width is Really gonna keep ME up nights.
James, you were the first youtuber I subscribed to and you have never ceased to offer great and informative content. Thank you
Worthy to mentions is that not all riving knives are equal, not are all blade bodies/plates. My stock riving knife comes in at a thickness of 2.8 mm (just over 7/64 inches), which is way thicker than a general thin kerf blade. While my full kerf blade's bodies comes in at 2.2 to 2.5mm thick, some of them are thicker than the mentioned 'full-kerf' riving knife.
Thanks for the video. Very informative! I still have one question. I am using a job site table saw (can't afford proper table saw yet), which comes with thin kerf blade and riving knife. If I want to replace the blade with full kerf, almost all of the blades that I check have body thicker than riving knife thickness. Can I safely use full kerf blade in my case? Would it be risky regarding kick backs?
Riving knife info:
Thickness: 0.087
Blade Min kerf: 0.094
Blade max body thickness: 0.079
My saw also came with shims to move the splitter to the right. Why? Is it to help align the splitter with the right side of the blade? Thanks James.
Hello, thank you for all the info and great details. I do have a question tho. I like amana tools saw blades and I usually get full kerf blades with my 1.75hp saw but recently I returned a glue line ripping saw model 610301C 'cause on arrival I immediatly notice that it was substancially thicker, both in kerf (0.145 or 3.6mm) as well as plate (0.95 or 2.4mm) wich is on my opinion a lot for my saw to push. And also a very akward kerf size to work with. But now, watching your video got me thinking - that plate is thicker that most spliters and riving knifes... would it be safe to use it with standard spliters like yours?
My Great Grandfather was killed by a kickback in the early 20th Century.
Thus, I remember this when I approach a rip cut.
If I heard you correctly, that splitters/blade guards are used with full through cuts, where a raving knife is used for partial cuts like dates and rabbet cuts. Is my understanding correct. So if I am doing a rip cut to produce strips the my splitter blade guard is the safety equipment I should be using? Thanks.
I noted that early in the video you mentioned the use of a riving knife was usually for non thru cuts as the sw blade is always higher than the knife. However, near the end of the video, you show through cutting with the riving knife attached.. Please clarify.. Regards.
A riving knife sets below the top of the blade so you can make non-through cuts with it. You can also make through cuts with it. It works in both cases.
Question Stumpy...is that vest u r wearing a dedicated woodworking vest? Does anyone make A vest that would do what an apron does? I do not like the aprons and a vest would be the perfect solution.
Can you please make a video on heating a shop? I am trying to heat mine but need some advice.
So many options and so many things to consider! Since I need both heating and cooling for a 200 sqft shop (roughly 2400 cubic feet), I initially got a portable heat pump unit. It developed a coolant leak in less than 2 years so wasn’t effective. I replaced with a mini-split and love it. With the insulation I have and our local temperature profile, the installer sized it at 3.5 - 4 BTU per cubic foot.
One woodworker I know with a much bigger shop uses a wood burning stove.
Best wishes on your research!
I’m curious how you are able to use one riving knife for all blades. I have a sawstop and have found that when I use the riving knife with a thin kerf blade for ripping, it is difficult to push the wood through the cut. I’m told that this is because the thin kerf blade is not aligned with the center of the riving knife. In other words the blade is further left than the center of the riving knife so the kerf is rubbing the right side of the rivingknife as it travels through the cut. I would live to use my thin kerf blade more so what am ai missing here?
Hi James can I have some advice please. I have a Dewalt 7485 table saw nearly 4 month old, my riving knife is not perfectly inline with the blade it's about 1/2 a mm to the right towards the fence. I put a thinner blade on now its 1mm past the blade so when I push the wood through I can see the riving knife move over to the left. I phoned a company and they said there is a tolerance on the riving knife and it would not be 100% in line even if I put another riving knife in. I would appreciate any advice you could give me. Thank you. Derek
I wonder how a beveled or tapered riving knife would preform
Hi - can I use feud blade 2.1mm kerf thickness and I.4mm blade thickness - with a Dewalt table saw riving knife of 2.2mm - I am here in London UK - Many Thanks - Keep Up The Wonderful Work
the blades i have for my table saw have a kerf range of .098 to .126. i am trying to install a Shark Guard blade guard so i have riving knives from .090 to .125. What riving knife should i use to cover my blades? thanks
So I made a zero clearance throatplate for my portable table saw (dewalt 10 in., full kerf blade) since I am using the riving knife with it is safe to use without a spacer at the backend of the throatplate? Some videos show where they glue a small piece of wood at the backend, as to maintain the gap of the plate? I was thinking as long as your using the riving knife this minor detail won't matter...any comments, thanks
Hey Stumpy, I can't find the video that had the hand crank disc sander and the sliding table saw with no motor. It had a fixed blade and you move the table sled back and forth over the blade to cut the wood. So have you seen either in a DIY build?
Here's the video: ua-cam.com/video/BtpkbYCnwpI/v-deo.html No, I have never seen a DIY version.
Can you use riving knife with 0 kerf insert?
If we use thin kerf blade with wider riving, should that extra thickness stick out to one side or evenly spaced?
My knife is wider, boards will hit it on the right side of blade. Should I adjust so that the right side is flush with the blade and the extra width of riving is on the left?
What about blades with anti kick back and expansion slots
Thanks for the great info! I want to prepare a riving knife for my saw which doesn't have one. My blade body is ~1.8mm & kerf is ~2.7. I found only a metal plate of 2mm for making the knife. Sounds good? Is it enough thicker than the body? Isn't it too thinner than the kerf? Thanks!
That should work.
@@StumpyNubs I Appreciate your answer very much!
Also, if the thickness of the splitter and the kerf was the same or splitter was thicker even, wouldn't that prevent the piece from going past the splitter, but would just hit the splitter since the kerf isn't wide enough for the splitter ?