WCW Invasion Of The WWF: 83 Weeks
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- Опубліковано 25 сер 2024
- On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad discuss the debacle of the WCW invasion of the WWF. Eric shares the details surrounding the sell of WCW, how he was contacted by the WWF before the invasion, and what he would have done different that could have made the invasion angle the biggest event in professional wrestling.
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#wcw #wwe #aew #wrestlingpodcast #wrestlingnews #ericbishcoff
Ric Flair debuted the very next night after the invasion ended at Survivor Series. It’s ridiculous!
Eric’s Sting Invasion backstory is EXACTLY what I used to tell my buddies when re-booking the Invasion angle. Nailed it Eric
I honestly feel they needed atleast Ric Flair at the launch as Shane's Co-owner and wrestler. And with the NWO they could had Eric show up with them as Flair's last resort. All they had to do was extend the angle a couple more months!
Nah, don't need to make it too convoluted with 3 sides. Just having Eric, Shane, Stephanie, and Paul for the EVP, Chairman, CEO, and President of Talent Relations respectively would be fun enough.
Worst fan booking ever…
The Invasion poster should've been half Austin and half Goldberg and instead it was half Shane and half Vince..and thats all you need to know about why it failed.
Thanks bro
Exactly.
I've been waiting 5 years for this episode. Lol
Hogan vs. Austin was also a dream match that never happened.
Didnt work for Hogan brother to lose to the bigger star Austin, brother.
@@Rschr101actually Austin was the one that refused the match and he's been very open about regretting that decision. Hogan jobbed twice to Rock, he would have put Austin over if it came to it.
It wasn't in the budget but they spent all that money on the POS XFL. Best quote in the whole conversation.
Vince thought he would give HIS fans what they wanted by burying WCW talent. However I was a WWF fan at the time. Rarely watched WCW back then. Vince permanently lost me as a fan by disrespecting the WCW guys like that. He made me a WCW fan.
This was such an interesting episode on many levels. Thank you!
40:00 I had a similar experience once at a neighborhood bar. Male bartender refused to tune one of two dozen TVs to wrestling for me in an empty bar. That bar is no longer in business.
Eric's fantasy WCW team for invasion is 🔥
Sting, Goldberg, Booker T, DDP & Scott Steiner.
Man! what a team.
What a scary image of Conrad and Eric as two face 😱
It's a play on the invasion 2001 poster of Vince & Shane McMahon for those that dont know. That one was creepier
@@bryanqueensberry6215 o yeah I forgot about that poster. Age will do that 😂😭. But I still think this one is more scary 😱
@@bryanqueensberry6215 hey do you live in Queensbury NY?
@@taltagteamchamps Chase City Va never heard of Queensbury NY lol but now I'll look it up
@@bryanqueensberry6215 it is a town next to me lol
I have “fond memories” of trying to access WCW VHS Tapes in the nineties. To say they had limited distribution would be an understatement, they were pretty much in the witness protection program. None of the rental chain stores near me carried them, so in order to locate them I had to travel four towns over to an independent video shop located in an area that was literally the wrong side of the tracks. The type is of place where you could see drug transactions taking place in broad daylight, bars on windows and security decals on every property. The clerk at the shop eventually took to calling me “The WCW Guy” as apparently I was the only person who would rent those tapes whereas most everyone else was going to the store to rent porn. As I said fond memories!
WAs it ran by Vince Russo
Same here. I remember finding a big stash of WCW PPV’s at Pick-a-Flick video in 96 or 97 and freaking out with excitement.
How strange, I live in the UK and WCW tapes were readily available over here. Right there along with WWF tapes. In fact I think I had more WCW tapes than i did WWF at the time.
What a fascinating story, thankyou mate 😂😂😂
Imagine walking into a video rental place in a shady area of town and the store clerk is like "Welcome! We have all your porn films here....and some of that wrastlin' stuff."
After WCW went out I prayed for sting to appear in WWE, when I realized he's not coming that's when my wrestling watching career ended.
We look at at the Invasion with poop tinted glasses, but if you actually watch the events unfold the crowd was absolutely hot for the vast majority of it. It can be argued that the casual fan was entertained by the story because of their hope that bigger names would eventually join, but I think it shows that WWE could've easily had a more successful Invasion with the players they had, had they known their restrictions from the start.
Since the WCW sale was a illegal, orchestraded inside deal between Turner Entertainment President Brad Siegel and his best buddy Stu Synder, then COO of Titan Sports, the WWF knew all about the contracts. Siegel even offered them a buy out chance, hoping the WWF would take those contracts of his shoulders. They didn't, because Vince thouth they would never make the money.
It was short sighted and idiotic. As Jim Cornette said: The whole Invasion storyline could've been dragged out for 2 years with tons of high profile dream matches and it probably would've broken all records.
@ShadowAngel-lt8nw what makes you think the WCW sale was illegal? I've never heard that before. Was it in Guy Evans book? Any reliable sources?
@@alexwheaton6723 Ex-WCW (and then Director of Talent Booking for TNA) employee Bob Ryder talked about all that in 2001 and showed just what was really going on.
The way it was handled pretty much went against everything and it was a wonder they got away with it. Most certainly the stockholders from Turner should've filed a lawsuit against the fact, that WCW was sold for a measly sum, when there were at least 3 better (Bischoff and Fusient, Jerry Jarrett and a investment group led by ex-Vice President of WCW Enterprises, Jay Hasmann). They all were pretty much blocked, because Siegel and his friend Snyder wanted to get WCW to Vince and it's believed both were financially compensated by Vince for that. Jerry Jarrett also talked about that in shoot interviews, he had an investment bank ready and made a offer that ended up for a total of 70 million dollars. He was completely blocked and ignored by Siegel. Jarrett of course then went on and created what would become TNA instead.
Even before that, Siegel sabotaged WCW whereever he could. Remember when there were rumours, even wrestlers and backstage people (like Kevin Sullivan) talked about it, that there was somebody on the inside trying to destroy the promotion? That was Siegel. He was actually the one who orchestrated all the massive budget cuts, the hiring stop for the promotion and cancelling all the programming, by influencing Jamie Kellner, who greenlit the decision, even though Nitro was still their highest show overall, with Thunder and Saturday Night also doing exceptionally good ratings right until the end.
Oh and "mysteriously" afte the sale was done, Snyder suddenly left his position as COO of Titan Sports to return to a well paid job as high ranking executive for Turner Broadcasting, Siegel made sure he would have a nice place (Snyder then was responsible for creating Adult Swim, bringing live-action programming to Cartoon Network, which initially was extremely badly received by the audience)
The whole story is insane. Ryder made that interview on July 31, 2001.
@ShadowAngel-lt8nw yep they wpuldent of fumbled this any worse then they did. Biggest drop of the ball of all time some have argued.
@ShadowAngel-lt8nw wow, I can't believe I've never heard any of that. I. Can definitely see your point now.
Conrad is 100 correct about the stigma of wrestling in the eyes of the public. I work night shift at a hospital in Memphis and on Monday night if there is an empty room I will turn on raw so when I walk by I can see what’s going on. And it never fails. If a woman walks by and sees me watching if they say anything if always to the subject of I cannot believe you still watch this. Or you watch this fake stuff. But when men in their 40s, 50s or 60s ( nurses, nurse practitioners, physicians, pharmacy employees, IT employees) walk by I always get something like oh man I used to love watching ric flair and the horsemen. Or Jerry lawler was great on Saturday mornings here in the 80s. And the men will watch for a minute before walking away. The women I work with look at me crazy. And years ago I lived in Michigan back in 2010 and 2011 there was a bar and grill nearby that on Sundays would show wwe pay per views and I knew a couple female servers there and literally all the female servers would do their best to be off that night. They said they hated that night cause none of the wrestling fans tipped, they were annoying, and all they ordered was complimentary chips and salsa. Basically no one ordered drinks or real food and spent any real money and no one made money that night. The wrestling was shown in a private room in the back and you had to pay 5 or 10 bucks to watch. When told the hostess you were there for wrestling she would literally roll her eyes. And when you saw the people watching and heard from the employees how they tipped, you could not blame the girl one bit.
To help Eric out with how to introduce Sting I would make it a symbolic thing and match up with The Undertaker. After all, Vince stated his intention of buying WCW was to bury its legacy (Sting was the embodiment of WCW's legacy so symbolically he is coming after The Undertaker - who up to then was undefeated at Wrestlemania and WWF's Phenom - in order to play mind games leading up to a 'Buried Alive' match at Survivor Series). Let the deck be stacked against him and then let the invasion commence...
It did seem to me that ego got in the way of doing good business, as first impressions count and set the tone for what is to follow (starting with the WCW Job Squad was the worst of possible starts). Much better to build intrigue as Eric says, IMO perhaps starting with a crowd shot of a recognisable WCW face or two to build anticipation. *All it may have taken would have been something as simple as there being a bit of a commotion in the crowd with fans chanting 'Whoooo' and doing the 'Diamond Cutter Sign' and for the camera to pan to Ric Flair and DDP watching on during the action at Wrestlemania...
I do wonder though, could there have even been a role for Bret Hart to add some legitimacy to the real life heat?
That's a good idea, but I think the problem with Eric's idea is that he's trying to introduce WCW wrestlers as faces in front of a WWE audience that was hostile to WCW wrestlers because of the recent competition between the two companies. If you want WCW wrestlers to be accepted by a WWE audience, then you have to show WWE wrestlers accepting the WCW wrestlers rather than just beating the crap out of every WCW wrestler just because they're from WCW.
I would've started bringing WCW guys into WWE with Ric Flair, with Ric touting that he's a former WWE champion. So, Ric has instant credibility since he was in the WWE for a while before jumping back to WCW. And I would have him do his bragging as a guest announcer during Raw, because then the other announcers could back him up and help the audience to recall (or become informed of) Ric's history with the WWE. I'd have Ric saying that he's ready to come back and show why he's the greatest champion in the history of wrestling, no matter which company he's in.
Now we have our lead-in to slowly re-introducing WCW wrestlers to the WWE audience. The important thing, I think, would be to never say the letters W-C-W. You fold the WCW wrestlers into the WWE without playing it off as an invasion. Maybe you could do a storyline in the future in which the former WCW wrestlers form their own group and declare the invasion has begun (like a Trojan horse type of situation), but that's only after the audience has accepted them. And part of how you accomplish that is by having, for example, Stone Cold about to get jumped, so Bret Hart (who has credibility with the WWE audience) comes in to rescue him. But when Bret becomes overwhelmed too, DDP runs in through the crowd and hops into the ring to help Austin and Hart. As the show closes, Austin, Hart, and DDP all stand in the ring together, maybe next week there's a six-man tag team match with those guys teaming up, and during the match, DDP gets the hot tag. We do this to manipulate the WWE audience to cheer for DDP as he helps out WWE wrestlers.
And as the audience becomes accustomed to seeing the former WCW stars as legit WWE wrestlers, then you introduce a storyline in which a former WCW wrestler is brought in by a WWE star. Like, Paul Bearer begins talking about his new mystery man who will take on and destroy The Undertaker once and for all. Eventually, this mystery man is revealed to be Sting (who doesn't speak, by the way). And there could be a situation in which Kane and The Undertaker double team Sting and they both choke slam him, but Sting pops up instantly as if he can't be hurt. Now, you have WWE viewers seeing a new, viable threat to The Undertaker, someone they've never seen before, and you also have former WCW viewers wondering what happened to Sting that made him the way he is now. So, the storyline could involve Paul Bearer revealing how Sting came to be in the WWE, and that could be a hook for both audiences.
But that basically would've been the best way to bring WWE and WCW together. You do it in a natural way so that the WWE audience doesn't realize that it's happening until they've already accepted the WCW wrestlers into the fold.
I think that Sting motivation angle Mr. Bischoff thought up was a great idea
I actually now own the domain of the link on The Big Bang poster. It went on sale earlier this year and I picked it up. Long goal is to turn it into a positive page of WCW memories. I have to thank Mr. Bischoff for being ahead of the curve and helping inspire this mythical ad.
the reason so many people bought the ppv was because we all thought this cant be it there has be a huge suprise on the ppv. when there wasnt people stopped watching in droves
Nah they stopped watching a few months later when they made Jericho the champion.
As a WCW fan, when ECW hit the ring, faced off with WCW then turned around and beat down the WWE guys I jumped out of my seat... then Stephanie came out by the end of the show and I was like... ahhh man.... this is stupid... ruined it....
"Faster than I fired the Honky Tonk Man!" This made me guffaw as I pass 8am.
Greatest missed opportunity in wrestling history.
Nah it was fine.
As a teen aged kid at the time I loved the debut of the Alliance, the double cross and then Shane cut that awesome promo with Heyman hanging off the ropes yelling at Vince was an awesome moment. Was ithe whole angle executed perfectly? Probably not, they definitely could’ve made the Alliance look a bit stronger but they did the best with what they had since they couldn’t get the top WCW talent and it made for some good moments like Austin joining the Alliance and being hilarious and the Invasion PPV was huge. For me this is where it all peaked and soon after I stopped watching wrestling regularly.
Vinny Mac burrying wcw in the process.
Vinny Mac burrying wcw in the process.
Hall keeps being brought up but, in 2001 the WWF could have easily signed him if they wanted to. He wasn't under contract with anybody, was working in Japan here and there and was reportedly at the time the healthiest and clear headed he'd been in years.
Maybe they thought he wouldn't be as valuable without Nash at his side?
@mrpink99 Possibly. I was thinking perhaps it had to do with the Invasion angle itself. If they were to bring him in solo, it would have had to be as Razor Ramon but, since the Invasion angle was going on, Hall coming in would have needed like you said Nash and possibly Hogan too but, who knows.
On Bruce's show, he said at that time WWE wasn't interested in either Nash or Hall by themselves. They had to come in as the nWo or not at all.
The Stu Snyder deal is 100% sketchy. Jerry Jarrett said this 20 years ago.
I think part of the reason why AOL Time Warner wanted to rid themselves of WCW was the lawsuit WWE filed against them in 1996 over the Razor and Diesel trademarks. AOL Time Warner probably didn't want to acquire any liabilities whatsoever, and from what I understand, WCW lost millions of dollars in that lawsuit. I'm sure the suits at AOL Time Warner weren't wrestling fans, but it doesn't help when WCW was losing millions dollars at the time (including the Halloween Havoc 1998 debacle, when WCW had to refund millions of paying customers.)
Conrad in Pensacola!! We got to get a drink.
That bartender was just a really big fan of old golf tournaments. What is more niche than golf?
Wrestling
@@iBmEVanquisher I'd love to compare the viewership numbers. Taking degenerate gamblers out of the equation because they aren't really fans.
@@mrwednesdaynightmore adults watch golf than wrestling… both are super niche
Imagine Sting hanging out in the rafters during the summer of 2001.
"Oh my God! AEW Dynamite?!" Said literally no one...ever.
Remember that Shawn promo in 2005 where he trolled the canadian crowd with Brets music? That would have been the perfect segment for the Georgia dome raw only with Austin in Shawn's role and Goldbergs music hitting instead of Bret.
Those wcw top guys knew that vince would job them out or decrease their value . Triple H was dying to pedigree and clean pin all of them
DDP could have been like a CM Punk like "man of the people" rebellious character.
Miss Eric he was a great GM of Raw
It sucks the Invasion went the way it did but thank you Eric for making our childhoods so special!
Eddie G was not there at the time because he was fired from WWE because of his personal demons at the time.
Also Benoit and HHH were out with long injuries. Benoit for his neck and HHH tore his 1st quad.
That's what I was thinking too. Eddie wasn't there during the invasion. But they are fantasy booking people who weren't in the WWE at the time.
I miss wcw
NWO WWF debut in Atlanta at the GA Dome would have been crazy. The state of Georgia would have had registered earth quakes
How epic would it have been if the nwo came out at wm17 main event
Yeah. And Days Later, Scott Steiner, Sting And Goldberg. And Lex Luger & Sid In The Late Spring. And Ric Flair The Last Top Star To Show Up. DDP & Booker T Show Up In April.
The WWE Were Afraid Of The True WCW, Having The Same Number Of Wrestlers & WCW Both Having Their Top Stars & More Top Stars. The Invasion Was Unpraisable. The Monday Night Wars Was Far Superior. The WWE Had 50 Wrestlers On Their Roster & No More Than 11 Who Were Both Over 225 lbs. And Built. Stone Austin, The Rock, Kane, Triple H, Kurt Angle, Hardcore, Fasrooq, Billy Gunn, Test, Bull Buchanan & Steve Blackman Left After His Qualifying Matches In The King Of The Ring Tournament.
And What If The Rock Still Went To Hollywood. I Don't See Him Turning Down That Movie. WCW Had 10/11 Built Muscular Over 225 Pounds Top Stars-Hollywood, Lex Luger,, Sting,, Scott Hall, Sid Vicious, Kevin Nash, Goldberg, Bret Hart,, Roddy Piper,, Randy Savage, Scott Steiner And Booker T. The WWE Had Signed 24 WCW Wrestlers And Less Than 10 Built Guys Over 225 Pounds;Booker T, Chuck Palumbo, Mike Awesome,, Mark Jindrak, Sean O'Haire, Shawn Stasiak. And Kanyon.
They Knew What They Were Doing.
They wouldn't have needed them to show up on that show.
Wm17 was the perfect show, no need for nwo coming back and stinking the joint up.
@@Rschr101 The NWO Were More Over Than Any Of WWE Superstars. They Were Far From Too Old. That Was WWE's Narrative And Smarks Talk. The WWE Regreted It In The 2010's And Up Realizing WCW Was Right To Keep Pushing Them. They Had More Than 10 Years Left In Them. No Faction In WWE History Could Beat Them. The WWE Ratings Dropped All Of March. The Buyrate For Wrestlemania Was High As Ot Was, Because Fans Anticipated Top WCW Stars Showing Up. It's Why Invasion Buyrate Was The Second Highest Grossing WWE Pay Per View. And WWE Ratings Dropped For Most Of 2001. DX Would've Stunk Up The Joint In WCW. They Were Inferior To The NWO & Raven's Flock. The Attitude Era Was Stinking Shitty Wrestlers, Shitty & Shitty Wrestling.
Overrated Garbage.
Most Attitude Era Stars Would've Been In WCW Midcard. Steve Austin Only Got Over Because Of The Attitude Era. If It Wasn't For The Attitude Era, He Would've Been The Same Austin He Was In WCW. He Was Fired From WCW, Because He Had A Bad Attitude. WCW Fans Saw
Him As Midcard Talent Best. The Rock Been Exposed For His People's Elbow; It's Retarded How He D
Stood Over His Opponents For 15 Seconds, Threw The Elbow Pad In The Crowd, Ran From One Side Of The Ring To The Other And Then Dropped The People's Elbow And His Opponents Lying There All That Time To Get Elbowed. His People's Elbow Wasn't All That Effective. Dominant Fat Wrestlers Weighed 400-800 Pounds And Dominant Nonbuilt/Nonmuscular Wrestlers Weigh 400 On Up Pounds. That's Why Mick Foley & The Undertaker Didn't Succeed In WCW. Triple H, You Know What Said About Him. Edge/Christian. The Hardy'z & Dudleys Were Overrated Cruiserweights & Heavyweights In Cruiserweights Bodies Too. They Couldn't Get Over Without TLC. Hogan, Hall & Nash Had Got Bigger Pops Than Austin And The Rock. And Vince McMahon Couldn't Take It. You Afraid WCW Roster Would've Dominated/Destroyed Decimated The WWE Pow.
Too Wrestlers Had To Sleep With Vince McMahon To Be Pushed To Too.
Sore Loser And Another, If Ted Turner Bought The WWE And The WWE Wanted To Invade WCW, DX Wouldn't Have Been A Threat To WCW Stop Stars. .WCW Would've Decimated DX.
🤝. Conrad Is ALot Annoying. WWE Fans Biggest Idiots. The NWO Would've Got The Biggest Pop Of The Night. WCW Factiins Would've Destroyed The WWE's: NWO, NWO Hollywood, NWO Wolfpack, Raven's Flock, The New Blood, The Natural Born Thriilers And The Magnificent Seven Over DX, The Corporation, The Corporate Ministry, The McMahon Helmsley Faction.
,
The whole concept was more about vince and shane then the actual companys though.
Yeah, it became a McMahon family soap opera. Stephanie being the owner of ECW was even worse.
I was 13 when the invasion angle started. I had NO idea who any of the WCW guys were - none. I had only seen WWF. I think I got into Wrestling in 99 I knew WCW existed and that Hogan had been there. I also knew what Sting looked like. That's it. So, bringing in DDP against the Rock wouldn't have worked well for me. Saying all that, I immeidately saw Booker T as a star. He was obviously a main-event talent.
"Sid would have been good if you hadn't snapped his leg off"
He snapped his own leg, because he only had half the brain Steiner had.
The only wcw person that people would care soo much about and still be believable for the invasion story eric laid out like taker and kane gotta constantly bully mysterio .but I feel like it would have to be mysterio as the sacrifice
WWF InVasion holds the record for the highest buy rate PPV outside of WM.
People were probably expecting Sting, Goldberg, Hogan, etc. to show up
The invasion was botched on purpose. Part of Vince's hangup about wcw.
This was a really good listen. Really enjoyed this one.
Eric Bischoff: "I remember it like it was yesterday..."
Also Eric Bischoff: "I don't recall..."
Eric's point about the WWE culture is interesting. I think it's obvious that Vince had no interest in presenting WCW as any kind of threat or as on their level - which makes no sense, as they needed a strong adversary AND it was his Company by that point. The famous invasion poster with Vince and Shane's faces split obviously could have been Vince and Eric's face or even Agustín and Goldberg etc but there's no way he wanted to present WCW (and especially Bischoff ) as on the mighty wwe's level.
It's 100 percent arrogance and lack of patience on Vince's part. Sting not being one of the first acquired into this Invasion was where they dropped the ball from the beginning and had zero momentum afterward.
I'm well aware of why Sting didn't join the WWF at the time, but Vince should have worked a hell of a lot harder to get him to sign after his contract expired and I know they came close in 02 but it fell through.
Not having Sting in a wcw Invasion is the equivalent of not having Undertaker in a WWF Invasion they are vital to both companies.
2 genuine main event WCW talents for this ppv and they made one of them into a pervert. No wonder it bombed.
The invasion was the biggest bust imagine what could have been
Undertaker vs sting
Hogan vs Austin
Flair vs hbk
Luger vs triple h
Nwo vs d x
Just in general the huge ppv with those names and matches would have been tremendously better than what it was
I still wonder what this weird obsession with Undertaker vs. Sting is, when Sting vs. HBK makes more sense from wrestling point of view. Also you would obviously do Goldberg vs. Austin because that was the match everybody wanted to see.
Lesnar vs Goldberg
@psmgamer Lesnar vs luger would be an awesome match
Blame VKM for not being patient and waiting for those bigger contracts to run out.
They could have put a team together, and presented them as a threat with:
Booker T
DDP
Buff Bagwell
The Giant
Chris Jericho
Raven
RVD
That's some top tier talent and star power, and make no mistake, Bagwell was a B+ star at the time, and DDP was a A.
Perry Saturn
Mike Awesome
William Regal
Kidman
Lance Storm
Hugh Morris
And more.
Exactly. Well put.
Funny part is even though all the top WCW guys were paid to sit at home (Sting, Goldberg, Flair, etc) WWE could've still done a better job with the WCW invasion. Eric's presence alone in WWE in 2001 would've given this so much legitimacy, instead of Shane running WCW, which made no sense. Conversely, Stephanie had no business running ECW. It should've been a Bischoff and Heyman led coalition (no McMahon-mania) WWE could've also had guys with prior WCW ties involved like Jericho, Benoit, Guerrero and Big Show as part of the WCW brand along with Booker T and DDP (minus the stupid gimmicks WWE gave him.) The whole angle sucked the big one.
Btw: the Guy Evans is part of Kindle Unlimited. That's how I came across it.
I'm trying to follow the 97 nitro from the current month building for the next ppv on 7-20-97 Eazy E and Hollywood came out to talk it looked good until they kind of layed down in the ring like a picnic to talk I was buzzing I was like I will get back to it my goal is to get through it for the next ppv and to see if there is a 83 week covering the ppv.
good show
As a young WCW mark, I quit watching wrestling around this time. The WWF product was just god awful and I had no connection to any of the people in the invasion.
If Eric himself had shown up claiming to have partial ownership of the WCW, particularly the NWO part and he invaded with Hogan, Hall, Steiner and co and they recruited some WWF heels to join them vs the WWF and WCW babyfaces, that would've been something to stick around for.
Then suddenly it isn't WCW getting shit on by the WWF, it's us together vs the NWO.
I remember when Survivor Series '01 was happening, I was like "What?! They're ending the Invasion already?"
Damn brother I didn’t know you were coming back down here I would have grabbed a six pack for the Rhode again! Haha
People certainly didn’t walk by and say „OMG AEW is on“ 😂 That’s Hulk Hogan Level on the Truth-O-Meter 😂
😂😂 Eric is strung out on kratom
I think I’ve gone to a bar 3 times in my life and saw wrestling it’s really something they should show
WoW wrestling mag was the best
The Invasion angel could have gone two years easy if done with the basic set up Eric said. WCW vs WWF with Vince and WWF as heels. A year build up with matches and such, for a WM blow off having Ric as the head figure for WCW. With conflict of the Faces and Heels on both sides, leading to Jericho to jump to WCW as described, but have a WCW guy jump to WWF in Survivor Series, which reveals WWF thinking they was going to ending WCW end up taking the L leading to the WM full card. Then the next night, after WWF wins against WCW assuming they are done; Eric shows up with the NWO. Stretch it off for a year till another WM blow off. But have WCW guys and WWF guys jump to NWO, while some WCW guys join WWF due to NWO being heels causing a double turn like Hart/Austin. But I would have started the initial WCW vs WWF story that Raw after WM to get it started ASAP. Like Eric said, get someone as a Face, WCW guy, go through being cheated and such a month before you see Sting. But as much as he should be shown in the rafters and such, there will be nothing done likely that way with Owen passing from their stunt failure.
But the thing is, Eric not wanting to admit it since it is business'; Vince did NOT want to draw out the story line. He did NOT want WWF to be the bad guys. He did NOT want WCW to win. He wanted their stars to look less than WWF guys. Vince was SO short sighted, his only goal was to make what money he could then "Kill" WCW. But he went to bleed as much money off it he could. So when the Invasion angle ended, it turned into Ric vs Vince for a un-named WCW vs WWF arc. Then NWO was brought in only to end bad. Hogan loved so much turns Face ending his heel NWO run. Hall gets fired due to his drinking issues. Nash gets hurt. Then they put HBK in the NWO?.... SMH Throwing shit on the wall is what exactly what Vince did.
The idea that the brand is more important than or as important as contents is one of the biggest misconceptions of modern marketing. It may work with standardized products, but even there it assumes that consumers are stupid and can be easily conned.
Conrad putting down on them at the Blue Marlin in P cola 😂 those ladies had no clue 😂
Eric is right on the money with Sting being necessary for it to work, although I understand Sting's refusal to jump into that shark tank at the time with how Booker was treated.
As far as casting goes, Sting works as the respectable figurehead leading a group of guys who lack the star power to make an impact if they came in without him. He's the most plausible loyalist to the brand since he was for a long time WCW's righteous babyface. Flair is a similar loyalist but he's better cast as an untrustworthy heel who could eventually either sell out to Vince, backstab Sting or convince the WCW faction to turn on Sting and take the group in a heel direction.
Bringing both Flair and Sting and having that dichotomy of character, and history between the two creates instant tension despite both fighting for the same side. Have them turn on eachother allows Sting to enter into a redemption arc where he remains a babyface in the crowd's eyes and sabotages the invasion rather than having them lose clean to WWF. This way he retains some dignity as a major star whilst playing a key part in ending the story of WCW. You just can't bring him in as a heel leader who decisively jobs out to WWF guys.
People often say Goldberg should've been brought in for it but I disagree. Not only would he have been miscast in the invasion, as he was more of a loner and loose cannon than a team player, his character had never previously cared about brand loyalty. Not only that but you'd have to job him out to WWF stars as he's coming in and possibly play heel which kills his momentum. You can save him for a later surprise after the invasion has concluded to keep his mystique and respectability. Bring him in as a face (similar to how he did in 03) and book him strong. If you want muscle for the group, Steiner is your guy.
The only thing I'll add is that Undertaker wouldn't have worked as well for Sting's opponent back in 2001 because he was still in the biker gimmick.
In hindsight the invasion angle was rushed. What they should’ve done was allow a few of the midcard and lower card wrestlers to enter the wwf like Lance Storm, OHaire, Palumbo, Kanyon etc to just wrestle and get jobbed out or treated like crap for a few months until the main event WCW talent contracts expired and they all made their way to the WWF then when they arrive all those mid card talents along with the main event talent like the Nwo, you then also bring in DDP and Booker and they all attack the WWF in 2002. You then bring reinforcements like Steiner, Goldberg and possibly Sting in 2003. By then HHH is healthy, HBK is back, Austin can have one last run and whalla you have the greatest 3 years in pro wrestling history
I feel like Stu was looped in because of the media / tape library 🤷🏻♂️
Cash, creative and caffeine. Eric was on fire this episode!
Don’t forget kratom
The REAL main events of invasion should have been
Undertaker and Kane vs. The Outsiders (hall and Nash)
Austin vs Goldberg
Kurt Angle vs. Booker T
DDP vs The Rock
Triple H vs Hogan
Later on you build up to Hogan vs. Austin, Undertaker vs. STING, The Rock against Flair
I'm right in line with Eric. Sting would be my pick, in the rafters, WCW talent targeting specific over weeks. Then survivor series hits with Sting on team WCW, no Goldberg yet. Goldberg attacks Austin and he's out until Royal Rumble
I think Vince has been handing out guarantees to certain people since day one. Just not everyone has talked about it
Lil meh with Eric’s 5 on 5 tho. I think the no brainer matchups at that time were:
Goldberg vs Stone Cold
Hollywood Hogan vs The Rock
Sting vs Undertaker
Ric Flair vs Triple H
Macho Man vs Shawn Michaels
Or
Eric Bischoff vs Vince McMahon
How did WWE ever get the WCW and ECW purchase past the FTC? Supposedly a monopoly in US law is considered 50% or more market share. How has the WWE avoided FTC issues to this day.
It's very simple: professional wrestling is categorized as sports entertainment. The market share that WWE competes with isn't, currently, only AEW. The market share is with other forms of sports entertainment as well. For example, the NFL is legally considered to be sports entertainment. This is why we're seeing more and more people realize that the NFL fixes their games (referees really aren't blind; they make bad calls on purpose and make bad calls even when replay clearly shows what the correct call should be) to decide who goes to the Super Bowl and wins, and the NFL can legally do this, because they're sports entertainment. So, WWE is in the same market share as the NFL. WWE could buy out AEW with no problems from the FTC, since there is no such thing as the "professional wrestling market". The market is "sports entertainment".
They have talked this so much that can hardly stay on topic.
I feel like everyone forgets the need to keep your current guys happy too. Imagine being like a mid card WWE guy at the time bet they were fuming
Love the restaurant/bar music comment. God do I agree fuckin hate when they do that!
Lex Luger Vs. Vince McMahon, McMahon getting his revenge for lex jumping ship to Nitro.
i feel for some reason around 99/00 if Jarrett could have been world champ for like a year+ counting the days - and Bret coming back from injury (if he could have) and saying hes no longer in nWo Silver (or whatever their 3rd nwo woulda been) and seen them fued - followed by whoever won that fued against Booker T woulda been great.
What a fantasy world Conrad lives in. More people watch Robot Wars replays than modern Rated G gymnastics. Too much Bluechew Big boy.
41:20: Uh, wow, Eric and Conrad both working through some shit here...
Invasion was fine and the last period in the business where people besides the die hard cared. Ratings died when they put the belt on Jericho and phased out Austin. Rocky sold out for Hollywood and the rest is history. When those wcw guys showed up it was too late, nobody cared. 2001 was the peak. Everything since was less than. Watching the current product is an embarrassment.
It's funny about watching wrestling in a bar because I live in England and when I use to go out in nightclubs in Skegness one of the late night bars would actually have WWE on mute in the nightclub so whilst ya on the dance floor u was actually watching WWE in massive screens it was brilliant
Starts around 4:30
Here's a What-If within a What-if: the stunt at Over The Edge 1999 either doesn't happen or went off without a hitch. If he was still in the company two years later, Owen Hart should have been in Kurt Angle's position during the Invasion. He could bring up the fact he once wrestled on WCW television during the early 90s, but more importantly use the Montreal Screwjob as motivation for betraying the WWF. Later, use Owen's history with Steve Austin as the reason why he'd betray The Alliance. Owen would have been perfect and logical for the role!
Hey hey, Conrad. I've listened to dozens of these video podcast shows on and off casually for a few years now. Are you looking for someone to handle the technical end of these shows? No offense, but I can't help but notice the quality of these isn't nearly as good as many of the other video podcast shows, especially with the audio inconsistencies. I am a freelance sound engineer, videographer, all around fill-in-the-blanks technical production guy. If you're by chance to looking to hire someone on a show-by-show basis to handle the production, I'd be interested in it.
Well Conrad, my oldest son was born July 22nd, 2001! I then went to my friend's for a beer and to watch this show... thankfully I had my son's birth to keep me excited.. this pretty much sucked!!
If i could fantasy book the Invasion it would have started at WM17. Sting or DDP would have interfered in the main event. The story would have drug on until Summer Slam.
Edge and Christian vs. Steiners
Kidman vs. Eddie Guerrero
Jericho vs. RVD vs. Lance Storm
Dudley Boyz vs. Outsiders
Cactus Jack vs. Terry Funk
The Rock vs. DDP
Kurt Angle vs. Boooker T
Chris Benoit vs. Ric Flair
Steve Austin vs. Sting w/ Goldberg interference at the end.
Thank god it wasnt up to you😅
What's the name of that book that eric likes?
Conrad do you SERIOUSLY buy that Kevin Sullivan story about basing Goldberg's look on Mike Tyson and not Stone Cold? LMFAO. Gimme a break. Goldberg blatantly stole Austin's appearance. Then later got butthurt that people mistook him for Stone Cold.
Where’s best place to watch Invasion PPV?
Could wwe have got the top wcw guys for larger contracts and to offset their own locker rooms issue with it written in lower bonuses and add ons to them as opposed to the existing WWF guys? That way all would of potentially earned similar money and allowed for huge box office based on the available talent and match ups
@49:00 invasion starts
Was Bobby Eaton up there with the WCW wrestlers?
There are key players for the Alliance side that deserve a lot of credit for what they brought to it. Staziak, Booker T, Kanyon. A lot of them did leagues above what we all expected. Then the ones they did get they didn't use properly. Case in point DDP. They could have done something great with him, but Nope. He's stalking the Undertaker's wife. You guys are talking about lazy people, the Invasion was a slam dunk, that was literally pissed away.
Vince had no desire to put over wrestlers from another "company" even though he owned that company at first. All Vince's ego at work.
In my fantasy booking: at WrestleMania shane announced hes ready to start-up wcw again and sting start stalking former wcw wrestlers one month at a time. For him to turn them over to wcw at monthly ppv in one on one matches. The opponents are Gaint,jericho, Benoit,booker t, finally stone cold. Shane than Start recruiting the mid-cards on both sides at about summerslam so they be set for i-c and u.s. feuds. Survival series have sting, stone cold,big show vs rock, undertaker, and triple h. Wcw wins and earn title at royal rumble. Shane picks austin to challenge for belt and he wins at rumble, sting wins the rumble. Austin looks like he going to congratulations him to only stunner him, vince pop-up on screen and say he knew stone cold was loyal to WWE and the beer is on him.. Setting up at wm austin vs sting. Stone cold recruit taker and Kurt angle to help. Turn into best out of 3 wins control of wwe. Taker vs show. Kurt angle vs booker t, austin vs sting. Ending: taker n booker t wins 1-1. Austin pins sting, after match. austin pick up sting tells sting how wwe are the best, but the wcw wrestlers has earned their rights to stay at wwe shakes his hand said Congratulations then stunner to sting. As stone-cold going up the ramp, Stephanie comes up says dont forget she still owns a company and will succeed where her bro fails with ecw. Next night on raw: ecw talent try to attack austin but wcw wrestlers made save. While vince pop on screen and say hes going to inject some poison. Enter nwo. Have Austin lose title to either triple h or Hogan. Which could start a nwo vs dx feud later at WrestleMania, with wcw vs ecw storyline ending.
Triple H was injured the whole of the invasion storyline
How cool would it be to see RVD vs. Vampiro for 15 minutes IC title or RVD vs Mike Awesome for 15 .. hardcore title
does anyone know if there are any Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame. The Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame & Museum was closed and website is not active. I know WWE has its own but any independent hall of fame that recognizes all prof. wreslters all over the world and all territories. If there is not why not?