this would have been a perfect analogy if nihilities were balanced to be better over harmonies. they dont present enough cases of that, they are always doing something useful in a team but never the best at it (barring extremely specific jiaoqiu + acheron). i think its more accurate for nihility to be a all purpose cleaning product while harmony is ineffective in some surfaces but ridiculously strong on others.
I have every Harmony not named "Sparkle" and I don't regret it one bit. Robin May have been a slightly sus pull since I don't really have a follow up team and Ruan Mei was more than enough for my main lineup, but now that I'm using Firefly Super-Break and Ruan Mei is locked into that comp, Robin is indispensable for B team in all 3 endgame modes.
@@delulu_soupThere’s a caveat for Robin to be BiS in those other teams though, making sure she has enough energy to Ult the moment it ends. For example, in DoT team Huohuo is a must to give her enough energy, etc If you can’t do that, her performance would plummet.
@delulu_soup she's only bis in perfect scenarios. If not she's far worse than other harmony units. She is good, but saying she's bis in most teams is cap af.
@@vaderglennI mean, those scenarios are clearing faster before Robin's ult disappears or getting enough energy to get Robin's ult back relatively quickly (which can be done with QPQ). Both are realistic scenarios that can be done with either having higher investment or getting a free and completely accessible lightcone
@@delulu_soup Robin is bis in almost every team that isn't super break dan il or dot. The problem is she's locked with quid pro quo 160 speed gal or else she feels and is poo to play.
Jiaoqiu really is great, not relying on application and player's turn is great utility. Nihility teams will shine more when hoyo has a great idea to release enemies that remove buffs. Better keep your choice of teams wide.
dude I thought of that previously, that would shake the meta so dramatically it would be wild Imagine having an enemy that can remove characters out of their states, like Balde's Forest of Swords, Jade's debt, Robin's concert
the ideal hypercarry team comp imo should be one harmony one nihility. but unfortunately nihilities just arent good enough right now, mainly because of acheron. once powercreep does its thing, they’ll be able to release broken nihilities without making acheron too broken
The best part of harmony is that while dps always powercreep each other harmony units only get better when new units come out. Their relevance is reliant on team comps vs their actual damage numbers like dps characters. Harmony OP is all I'm saying really
As I've watched the enemies evolve in this game, it's primarily done so through increasing the stats of enemies. To make the enemies tougher, give them higher values, and give the newer units a higher damage potential _in some way,_ whether that's crit stats, weakness implant or RES PEN, or more turns, or both, etc etc. And the Supports do have their role in bridging that gap. In Robin's case, I don't have her, but I've noticed that her extra damage when you attack seems to scale on her own ATK stat, it's _Robin_ dealing extra damage not just your DPS. And considering Robin, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle are effectively the strongest units, imagine the sky's the limit with what insane stuff we could see from future Harmonies. I've noticed that the debuff Nihility-based playstyle is actually pretty fun, especially with Acheron or Dr. Ratio. (I never had Kafka) Sure, I always think about whether enemies can remove them, and obviously that boss situation would be one not to run it, but it's still a go-to of mine since Acheron can be so strong in most content and Dr. Ratio absolutely shreds SU with the Elation path. The Light Cones are absolutely a good reason to use Harmonies. Vars put it best when he said, "The Light Cones _are_ support characters unto themselves." And Harmony cones are not usually locked to the intended character's kit like the DPS paths' Signatures are, which further makes them so much easier to use.
Harmony is just way overtuned. If Jiaqiou has the same debuffs as let's say Sparkle/Robin's buff in his base kit (DMG vulnerability, Crit vulnerability, Action delay, etc) then he'd be broken af especially in Acheron team (even if his stack generation is nerfed he'd still generate as much Acheron stacks as Pela/Gui/SW does) Even in his current form he can be slotted into any team though he'd worked better with debuff oriented teams or ult DMG teams.
harmony 5stars are just way too broken. if we ever want nihility to be even close to how much damage the 5star harmonies can bring we need something like pre nerf jiaoqiu with 99% vulnerability
He never had 99% Vulnerability. The Live version has the same value as V1, which is 35% + 15% for Ult. If you're referring to his LC, it only went from 28% to 24%, which isn't much. You're probably looking at E6S5 version.
What are you yapping about bro. V1 Jiaqiou and V5 Jiaqiou all have the same vulnerability multiplier which was 35% (50% for ult) Hoyo literally never touched that part of his kit They nerfed his PERSONAL DMG (cuz his DMG is borderline like a 4 star erudition character) not his debuffing capabilities
As someone who loves supports in rpgs, i welcome the fact that harmony units are busted and will be worthwile investments for any acc with open arms My favorite part abt their "meta" is that yeah, theyre all great and usable, no one's rly power crept yet (except maybe hanya vs sparkle) but since the average team layout is dps/support/support/sustain youll end up running the 2 busted supports u have, separate them into two teams, or pull for all the supports u want so each team u wanna play has an Assigned support (ruan mei for break, robin for fua, sparkle-bronya for crit etc)
If we ever got an enemy that could mirror buffs, that would be really interesting for the harmony class. It would make using them more of a risk/reward scenario and nihility debuffers the safer option.
i mean to be fair, Acheron just have nihility in her cones, her kit looks more like erudition dr Ratio, is not that nihility is a disaster of class, is a class aboth aplay debuffs to enemies (oposite to harmony) is just that Acheron is out of class (is not the first time that happend, destruction for exemple should have survabilty, but then we have IL wich is frail as fuck and doesnt have self healing, heck i could say QQ never was out of class, IL does, and blast damage isnt exclusive of destruction, himeko, Serval and QQ does blast damage, so size IL some destruction characters are in reality pseudo-erudition)
@hanabiilesley LOL. I guess if you don't look at realistic stats then sure you're right. But she has been god since her release. It's not even a joke how well she has aged into evolving mrtas.
@@vaderglenn its not that she is bad in general, she is just bad specifically for me since in a team with several hyperinvested harmonies she is underperforming alot
@@hanabiilesley Yeah, she really isn't worth it if you don't play super break and have e1 robin. e1 robin out preforms ruanmei in almost every senario besides superbreak athlough a couple new break dps's are coming out. 24% res pen is on average a 54% damage increase to the whole team if at 100% uptime and usually a 34-45 damage increase. The legit most broken con in the game. Why get ratio cons when you should go for robin e1, why go for feixiao e1 when robin e1 is a bigger upgrade.
i mean you can have a your own turn countdown that debuffs the opponent, essentially a harmony disguised as a nihility (think about a ruanmei countdown that while active, all enemies get def decrease)
One of nihility’s biggest issues to me is that it’s too insular. It’s the only class connect to DoT, even though it doesn’t need to be. All the other paths are sort of designed to work with each other, while nihility (specifically DoT) is designed to work alone. Like, imagine if a harmony unit like Ruan Mei came out, but for DoT. Someone who could “buff” DoT damage, or make the enemy enter a state where DoT triggers twice, or spreads, or can crit, something. Another issue is that hoyo is lazy with debuff creativity. People were so excited when Jiaqiou could reduce enemy EHR because of its novelty and generalizability. Debuffs like attack or speed are great debuffs design wise. But since they don’t help you clear faster, their value drops.
You know what this reminds me of? Premium supports in F/GO. They basically dictate meta in that game. Corgi (Castoria) is still a must-have character due to how busted of a support she is.
Im still contemplating whether or not I should pull for Sparkle here, since I wanted both Robin and Feixiao for my 2nd team because my current 2nd team are just 4 star characters. If I pull for Sparkle, I might have a future proof account, but then I would only afford to pull for Robin, so my DPS would have to be 4 star characters or Yanqing. My fear currently is, I might never even use Sparkle since I don’t even own the character composition of her lineup, DHIL and QQ. I also desperately need Aventurine for end game survivability mainly for Simulated Universe and Apoc Shadow, so there’s that. So Sparkle, Robin, then I’m broke so to compromise I would have to build around 4 star DPS for a few months before I would have enough Jade again to pull for a dedicated 5* DPS. Or pull for Robin and Feixiao, and now both my 1st Team and 2nd Team is complete, and after that I slow my pace down and I intend to focus on getting their Eidolon in upcoming reruns rather than stressing on future new releases. Maybe pull for a new Preservation character. I don’t know what to do. I might just flip a damn coin Edit: for context, I started playing this game during Boothill’s banner, so I managed to pull for Firefly and Ruan Mei, and they’re basically my permanent 1st Team.
"This video is not endorsing only pulling the same path in the game" Me, whose limited characters are only destructions and harmonies: Yeeeeah... about that...
JQ was a step in the right direction, since his debuffs are based on his own turn rather than his enemies, but they are gonna need higher multipliers or better mechanics like harmonies' action advance to actually be on the same level
robins buffs are simply that strong, also a teamwide action advance is crucial in acheron teams who greatly value turns (whether you run bronya or not)
The only way to balance these overtuned harmony to give nihility certain edge by implementing mechanics that force all unit to inflict enemy with certain count damaging skill or ultimate to kill it. Example Boss enters a phase where team need to inflict damaging skill or ulti 8 times or else teams gets punishes hard.But then again harmony is just too broken with unit like bronya and robin action advance to cheat the mechanics.Sam and Aven boss is the right example but still far to what i desire. This way it incentives people that atleast mix match their teamcomps with harmony+nihility rather than slapping 3 limited harmony to 0cycle all content
Harmony vs. nihility to me is like whether you put the cleaning product on the rag or the surface you’re cleaning
this would have been a perfect analogy if nihilities were balanced to be better over harmonies. they dont present enough cases of that, they are always doing something useful in a team but never the best at it (barring extremely specific jiaoqiu + acheron).
i think its more accurate for nihility to be a all purpose cleaning product while harmony is ineffective in some surfaces but ridiculously strong on others.
I have every Harmony not named "Sparkle" and I don't regret it one bit. Robin May have been a slightly sus pull since I don't really have a follow up team and Ruan Mei was more than enough for my main lineup, but now that I'm using Firefly Super-Break and Ruan Mei is locked into that comp, Robin is indispensable for B team in all 3 endgame modes.
robin is bis in most teams, shes never a sus pull
just because she has an extra 25% crit dmg for fua doesnt mean shes locked to fua
@@delulu_soupThere’s a caveat for Robin to be BiS in those other teams though, making sure she has enough energy to Ult the moment it ends. For example, in DoT team Huohuo is a must to give her enough energy, etc
If you can’t do that, her performance would plummet.
@delulu_soup she's only bis in perfect scenarios. If not she's far worse than other harmony units. She is good, but saying she's bis in most teams is cap af.
@@vaderglennI mean, those scenarios are clearing faster before Robin's ult disappears or getting enough energy to get Robin's ult back relatively quickly (which can be done with QPQ). Both are realistic scenarios that can be done with either having higher investment or getting a free and completely accessible lightcone
@@delulu_soup Robin is bis in almost every team that isn't super break dan il or dot. The problem is she's locked with quid pro quo 160 speed gal or else she feels and is poo to play.
Jiaoqiu really is great, not relying on application and player's turn is great utility.
Nihility teams will shine more when hoyo has a great idea to release enemies that remove buffs.
Better keep your choice of teams wide.
dude I thought of that previously, that would shake the meta so dramatically it would be wild
Imagine having an enemy that can remove characters out of their states, like Balde's Forest of Swords, Jade's debt, Robin's concert
the ideal hypercarry team comp imo should be one harmony one nihility. but unfortunately nihilities just arent good enough right now, mainly because of acheron. once powercreep does its thing, they’ll be able to release broken nihilities without making acheron too broken
That'd be a good time for a hypothetical Nihility MC release as well
The best part of harmony is that while dps always powercreep each other harmony units only get better when new units come out. Their relevance is reliant on team comps vs their actual damage numbers like dps characters. Harmony OP is all I'm saying really
As I've watched the enemies evolve in this game, it's primarily done so through increasing the stats of enemies. To make the enemies tougher, give them higher values, and give the newer units a higher damage potential _in some way,_ whether that's crit stats, weakness implant or RES PEN, or more turns, or both, etc etc. And the Supports do have their role in bridging that gap. In Robin's case, I don't have her, but I've noticed that her extra damage when you attack seems to scale on her own ATK stat, it's _Robin_ dealing extra damage not just your DPS. And considering Robin, Ruan Mei, and Sparkle are effectively the strongest units, imagine the sky's the limit with what insane stuff we could see from future Harmonies.
I've noticed that the debuff Nihility-based playstyle is actually pretty fun, especially with Acheron or Dr. Ratio. (I never had Kafka) Sure, I always think about whether enemies can remove them, and obviously that boss situation would be one not to run it, but it's still a go-to of mine since Acheron can be so strong in most content and Dr. Ratio absolutely shreds SU with the Elation path.
The Light Cones are absolutely a good reason to use Harmonies. Vars put it best when he said, "The Light Cones _are_ support characters unto themselves." And Harmony cones are not usually locked to the intended character's kit like the DPS paths' Signatures are, which further makes them so much easier to use.
Sunday better be worth the wait or else!
Harmony is just way overtuned. If Jiaqiou has the same debuffs as let's say Sparkle/Robin's buff in his base kit (DMG vulnerability, Crit vulnerability, Action delay, etc) then he'd be broken af especially in Acheron team (even if his stack generation is nerfed he'd still generate as much Acheron stacks as Pela/Gui/SW does)
Even in his current form he can be slotted into any team though he'd worked better with debuff oriented teams or ult DMG teams.
harmony 5stars are just way too broken. if we ever want nihility to be even close to how much damage the 5star harmonies can bring we need something like pre nerf jiaoqiu with 99% vulnerability
He never had 99% Vulnerability. The Live version has the same value as V1, which is 35% + 15% for Ult.
If you're referring to his LC, it only went from 28% to 24%, which isn't much. You're probably looking at E6S5 version.
What are you yapping about bro. V1 Jiaqiou and V5 Jiaqiou all have the same vulnerability multiplier which was 35% (50% for ult) Hoyo literally never touched that part of his kit
They nerfed his PERSONAL DMG (cuz his DMG is borderline like a 4 star erudition character) not his debuffing capabilities
@@RedCoreX725 watch his rerun get more pulls than his debut because of all the doomposting
@@RyougiVector Kazuha V2
I always look forward to seeing you post a new video 🙌 I love hearing your takes, always so much thought put into it
As someone who loves supports in rpgs, i welcome the fact that harmony units are busted and will be worthwile investments for any acc with open arms
My favorite part abt their "meta" is that yeah, theyre all great and usable, no one's rly power crept yet (except maybe hanya vs sparkle) but since the average team layout is dps/support/support/sustain youll end up running the 2 busted supports u have, separate them into two teams, or pull for all the supports u want so each team u wanna play has an Assigned support (ruan mei for break, robin for fua, sparkle-bronya for crit etc)
If we ever got an enemy that could mirror buffs, that would be really interesting for the harmony class. It would make using them more of a risk/reward scenario and nihility debuffers the safer option.
or even an enemy that removed buffs forcing them to skill/ult again
The holy trinity of harmony ruan mei robin and hmc (no not you sparkle)
Sparkle that blud that thinks she's on the team.
I’ve seen E6 Robin and I genuinely that is the best character in the game
i mean to be fair, Acheron just have nihility in her cones, her kit looks more like erudition dr Ratio, is not that nihility is a disaster of class, is a class aboth aplay debuffs to enemies (oposite to harmony) is just that Acheron is out of class (is not the first time that happend, destruction for exemple should have survabilty, but then we have IL wich is frail as fuck and doesnt have self healing, heck i could say QQ never was out of class, IL does, and blast damage isnt exclusive of destruction, himeko, Serval and QQ does blast damage, so size IL some destruction characters are in reality pseudo-erudition)
this is the only game where I feel rewarded for pulling for every support and I will keep pulling for every future 5* harmony
I love Harmony because my Clara hypercarry will always be balling
understood this concept on game release and i pulled e6s1 sparkle e1s1 robin and already saved 300+pulls for next e6 harmony for my account
No Ruan Mei?
@@Fellow_Human_Being for me personally mei is pretty weak and i have no regrets on skipping her
@hanabiilesley LOL. I guess if you don't look at realistic stats then sure you're right. But she has been god since her release. It's not even a joke how well she has aged into evolving mrtas.
@@vaderglenn its not that she is bad in general, she is just bad specifically for me since in a team with several hyperinvested harmonies she is underperforming alot
@@hanabiilesley Yeah, she really isn't worth it if you don't play super break and have e1 robin. e1 robin out preforms ruanmei in almost every senario besides superbreak athlough a couple new break dps's are coming out. 24% res pen is on average a 54% damage increase to the whole team if at 100% uptime and usually a 34-45 damage increase. The legit most broken con in the game. Why get ratio cons when you should go for robin e1, why go for feixiao e1 when robin e1 is a bigger upgrade.
I fear the day when enemies can strip us of buffs
"Apply buff resist that prevents buff application on allies"
HP debuff gotta be my favourite debuff
i mean you can have a your own turn countdown that debuffs the opponent, essentially a harmony disguised as a nihility (think about a ruanmei countdown that while active, all enemies get def decrease)
Cant wait for the eventual harmony dps that buffs themselves
One of nihility’s biggest issues to me is that it’s too insular. It’s the only class connect to DoT, even though it doesn’t need to be. All the other paths are sort of designed to work with each other, while nihility (specifically DoT) is designed to work alone.
Like, imagine if a harmony unit like Ruan Mei came out, but for DoT. Someone who could “buff” DoT damage, or make the enemy enter a state where DoT triggers twice, or spreads, or can crit, something.
Another issue is that hoyo is lazy with debuff creativity. People were so excited when Jiaqiou could reduce enemy EHR because of its novelty and generalizability.
Debuffs like attack or speed are great debuffs design wise. But since they don’t help you clear faster, their value drops.
Can’t escape from Harmony star rail 😅
You know what this reminds me of? Premium supports in F/GO. They basically dictate meta in that game. Corgi (Castoria) is still a must-have character due to how busted of a support she is.
Jiaoqiu= Hidden Harmony ofcourse not give buffs but as acheron or different Nihility you need another nihility to buff damage.
Im still contemplating whether or not I should pull for Sparkle here, since I wanted both Robin and Feixiao for my 2nd team because my current 2nd team are just 4 star characters. If I pull for Sparkle, I might have a future proof account, but then I would only afford to pull for Robin, so my DPS would have to be 4 star characters or Yanqing. My fear currently is, I might never even use Sparkle since I don’t even own the character composition of her lineup, DHIL and QQ. I also desperately need Aventurine for end game survivability mainly for Simulated Universe and Apoc Shadow, so there’s that.
So Sparkle, Robin, then I’m broke so to compromise I would have to build around 4 star DPS for a few months before I would have enough Jade again to pull for a dedicated 5* DPS.
Or pull for Robin and Feixiao, and now both my 1st Team and 2nd Team is complete, and after that I slow my pace down and I intend to focus on getting their Eidolon in upcoming reruns rather than stressing on future new releases. Maybe pull for a new Preservation character.
I don’t know what to do. I might just flip a damn coin
Edit: for context, I started playing this game during Boothill’s banner, so I managed to pull for Firefly and Ruan Mei, and they’re basically my permanent 1st Team.
"This video is not endorsing only pulling the same path in the game"
Me, whose limited characters are only destructions and harmonies: Yeeeeah... about that...
Harmony was a mistake, nihility cant compete
JQ was a step in the right direction, since his debuffs are based on his own turn rather than his enemies, but they are gonna need higher multipliers or better mechanics like harmonies' action advance to actually be on the same level
Xipe diff
7:48 But when we talk about eidolons, what you think for mei and robin: eidolons first or lc?
E1 Robin
I get what you are saying and kinda agree, but if you could have only one path to pull from, I don't think any sane person would choose harmony as it
Why not harmonies with edilons can make a 4 star 0 cycle
I Am stealing that Honkai Harmony realm😂😂
Wait, Robin is BiS for Acheron? Fr?
robins buffs are simply that strong, also a teamwide action advance is crucial in acheron teams who greatly value turns (whether you run bronya or not)
only with Jiaoqiu , without Jiaoqiu e2 Archeron prefer Sparkle. E0 still need double nihility if you dont have Jiaoqiu though
yes with vertical investment before e2 acheron, robin is better. sparkle otherwise + 1 nihility.
When waveman discord
The only way to balance these overtuned harmony to give nihility certain edge by implementing mechanics that force all unit to inflict enemy with certain count damaging skill or ultimate to kill it. Example Boss enters a phase where team need to inflict damaging skill or ulti 8 times or else teams gets punishes hard.But then again harmony is just too broken with unit like bronya and robin action advance to cheat the mechanics.Sam and Aven boss is the right example but still far to what i desire. This way it incentives people that atleast mix match their teamcomps with harmony+nihility rather than slapping 3 limited harmony to 0cycle all content
Do you have a Discord server Mr. Waveman?
you cannot spell Harm without H
bro how did you slide in jerma so casually into the video and not a single person in the comments has pointed it out yet
culture check failed
im trying to normalize his presence in my channel shh
@@waveman047 beyond based