For me, the horror of the book feels closer linked to my autism. Her obsessive worrying of how she will be preceived as shes getting dressed and the feeling of everyone making jokes behind your back (But right in front of your face) like they all know the script just reminds me of so many moments growing up. Its the pain of a thousand tiny cuts rather than a big stab
@@el3396 i'm autistic, too, and I completely agree: there's a rapidly increasing drip-drip of menace: almost as if the ENTIRE TOWN is in on Jamie's long con and they find it hilarious that somebody could be that naive.
I was going to comment the SAME THING. The obfuscation of being able to parse what in the world is going on with, increasingly seemingly everyone else in the town, is just spot on.
When I was in gradeschool, my classmates made it clear to me that if they could have gotten away with it, they desired to burn me as a witch. At the time, I had to laugh it off because the horror of taking it seriously would have been too frightening. In hindsight, I recognize that they were not joking, and that makes it even scarier to think about during current times.
Really good episode. I was reminded of the country song ‘Delta Dawn’ in which Dawn walks around looking for her mysterious dark haired man, suitcase in hand, never finding him. Madness, fear, lurking evil, and loss. Shirley was a wonderful writer. And if you want to see what an attempt at starting a witch hunt looks like, watch DJ Trump in his speech about the Haitian workers in Ohio-‘they are eating the cats and the dogs.’ It’s ugly. And they were threatened and had to leave, to the detriment of the town. It is entirely too easy for a demon in human skin to start a pogram.
I've been creeped out by this story and that entire collection for many years. It sticks with you, doesn't it? No gore needed. Thank you so much for this close reading and connecting many dots!
This story, despite never consummating a marriage, reminds me of how destructive an abusive relationship can be. The aftermath of something so traumatic can leave you feeling as though you have no sense of self, and those you once thought you knew can become unknowable shadows, leering at your misforutne from a distance. You question everything you thought you knew about the world, about yourself, about the kindness you once thought the world possessed... And the pain of it lingers with you, following your steps and the haunting the tone of strnagers. It can leave you knocking at the door of what once was, what could have been, and leave you wanting.
From a modern interpretation as a person raised and still living under American society, I think this story takes on a darker tone if we looked at it from a contemporary perspective of "rugged individualism." The simplest way to define it without pulling out my political science textbook is the concept that the only way to be truly successful in life (financially, socially, romantically, whatever way you want to frame it) is to do it yourself. No relying on government aid, no relying on your community. Only yourself. With this framework in mind, the story of a woman trying to find a romantic partner in "Jamie" takes on a more sinister tone with the townspeople - a community she's been in for at least 34 years - don't support her in return. She's trying to reach out for support from her community when she is trying to be successful in her romantic life on her wedding day. But what does she get in return? Ridicule, quiet judgment, outward judgment to her face. She doesn't receive that support that someone would expect from their community because, under rugged individualism, she's not doing it "correctly" by relying on her own agency and self to do so. There's an added layer of misogyny under this system that I could delve into but this comment is already too long so if anyone's interested in hearing my take on that, please reply and let me know.
After watching your other videos about Shirley Jackson, I bought her novels and the Lottery collection. This story stuck with me and I couldn’t quite say why. Your analysis is so helpful!
Hi! I’m neurodivergent and sometimes get so frustrated with my inability to connect to a story when I’m stressed out trying to read and stay focused on the page- but your content has reignited my motivation to read and really makes me feel like I can approach literature and actually take the time to appreciate it! Your passion is infectious and your videos are ART ❤
Just a quick something that I thought about: isn't the husband in "Of Course" also named Mr. Harris? Maybe it's obvious, but do we think that Mr. Harris from "Of Course" is Jamie? He seems to reign over his wife in a similar terrible and controlling way, making a hell of her home as well. Just a thought to consider!
Only a few days ago 200 people in Port Prince, the capital of Haiti, many of them elderly, were killed by a gang leader in "reprisal" for the voodoo curse that he believes this community performed on his son. In Haiti's current political situation the inhabitants are incredibly vulnerable to arbitrary violence like this.
The first story by Shirley Jackson I read was the one about the stoning, at age 19. It was the first horror story that got into my head for real. It haunts me to this day, over a decade later.
I hate how on this platform a guy can get 10 million subscriber by playing Minecraft while going on a misogynistic tirade but engaging in depth literary analysis gets not even a fraction
I was actually so excited when I saw this video posted. I was introduced to Shirley Jackson via the previous video on her, and have been reading lots of her stuff since - Thank you so much!
I often feel as though I'm missing some essential context or fundamental learning to understand Shirley Jackson, and I've struggled to find discussion on the different stories. I had no idea of the historical ties in the Demon Lover, it feels as though layers have opened up in the story I had no understanding of before. I love the readings, but the analysis videos are always my favorites.
She is the crazy but harmless Lady on the block . The scenario plays out over and over again. She is psychotic and they know her . She comes around every now and then and ask the same questions. The details change a bit every time. His name, his description … so they follow her in the deluge of the moment and the conversation changes a little bit every time. They pity and mock her at the same time but don’t try to scatter her illusions .
It reminds me of the first part of ‘Crime and Punishment’: something terrible gets stuck in your head so hard that the outside world becomes a surreal mirror, reflecting it back to you in the casual reactions of everyone around you. Only it’s not murder, but impostor syndrome at the very idea of being loved.
Hello, Dr. Rosie (and Cats)! I recently discovered your wonderful channel and so glad I did! New subscriber looking forward to exploring your video essays. Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season! (:~)
Today was the day my brain stitched together “When you think about it the Malleus Maleficarum fuelled Middle Ages GamerGate” The curse of being too well read but also too online 😖
The further it goes, the more I think Midsommar was a continuation of this, with the protagonist only going off of vague feelings and misogynistic comments, all the implications of being on the outside. The actual bf doesn’t fit the hidden demon figure, but could definitely compare it the the Green Man hiding everywhere in it
Re: Rochester. Thank you! Why people persist in thinking anything other than “what an asshole” of Rochester frustrates me. I suppose it is because, ergo, “Jane is foolish.” Reader, she is! But the author doesn’t seem to know that.
I've tried to get back into reading but struggled to find the time and motivation, your videos are really helping! Would you perhaps be interested in covering non-fictional feminist literature in future?
I wonder though, if they shaved her head by force and searched her privities for a witches mark, isn't that probably torture? Assuming the stories I was told as a child about searching with a pin are correct, of course.
Thanks, just want to say to me the demon lover is a symbol of self deception, and nobody forced Jackson to get married. But she subjected herself to a cheating husband that humiliated her, and she stayed. No excuse for a bad spouse, of course. A lot of her pain comes from accepting the pain of submitting to society's expectations, less from 'patriarchy'. ❤
You might want to look into the social and financial systems of mid-century Western society before suggesting that there was no coercion exacted upon women to get married or stay with unfaithful or abusive men. And explain, precisely, the difference between society’s expectations and patriarchy. Are society’s expectations somehow not in service of patriarchy?
@katebowers8107 I don't disagree with anything you say. But society is men and women, and men were considered failures if they were single, unsuccessful, poor, etc too. Buying into societal norms is self destructive. And I'm divorced many years now, I personally experienced false guilt and blame as a method of control. It's not just male/female, it's societal expectations, and to say women are eternal victims is a falsity, I think. The demon lover is inside of us, not others. 🤎
choice is a strong word considering much of our existence today (even moreso in the oast) had extremely limited real choice, economic, social, etc. were all deeply and intrinsically tied into the expectations of norms. essentially NOT agreeing to the norms results in a life of suffering or death. its coercion on the deepest level and does purely derive from a body of power having been normalized already- this case vejng the patriarchy.
@breathoffreshair7795 knowing what I know about her mother, well, she still communicated with her, right? Her husband cheated on her before and after she was married, she still married him. It's more about buying into society's lies about what is needed to be happy. And: the females in "possibility of evil", "sundial", and many others shows she was just as aware of the negative in woman, too. She studied the anima and animus, if the male vampire (demon lover) seduces and destroys her, how much blame does the victim contain? 90% of all divorces are initiated by the wife, BTW. 🩵
Following along with my copy of The Lottery and Other Stories with my overweight cat on my lap. I can think of no better way to spend a Sunday. Dashiel the Cat says hi to your adorable feline baby ❤
After watching your other videos about Shirley Jackson, I bought her novels and the Lottery collection. This story stuck with me and I couldn’t quite say why. Your analysis is so helpful!
For me, the horror of the book feels closer linked to my autism. Her obsessive worrying of how she will be preceived as shes getting dressed and the feeling of everyone making jokes behind your back (But right in front of your face) like they all know the script just reminds me of so many moments growing up. Its the pain of a thousand tiny cuts rather than a big stab
perfectly said :(
@@el3396 i'm autistic, too, and I completely agree: there's a rapidly increasing drip-drip of menace: almost as if the ENTIRE TOWN is in on Jamie's long con and they find it hilarious that somebody could be that naive.
I was going to comment the SAME THING. The obfuscation of being able to parse what in the world is going on with, increasingly seemingly everyone else in the town, is just spot on.
When I was in gradeschool, my classmates made it clear to me that if they could have gotten away with it, they desired to burn me as a witch. At the time, I had to laugh it off because the horror of taking it seriously would have been too frightening. In hindsight, I recognize that they were not joking, and that makes it even scarier to think about during current times.
Really good episode. I was reminded of the country song ‘Delta Dawn’ in which Dawn walks around looking for her mysterious dark haired man, suitcase in hand, never finding him.
Madness, fear, lurking evil, and loss.
Shirley was a wonderful writer.
And if you want to see what an attempt at starting a witch hunt looks like, watch DJ Trump in his speech about the Haitian workers in Ohio-‘they are eating the cats and the dogs.’ It’s ugly. And they were threatened and had to leave, to the detriment of the town. It is entirely too easy for a demon in human skin to start a pogram.
Listened to this while giving my dog a bath - he was ENRAPTURED. You have a fan in the both of us!! Lol
As n older bloke, I am constantly grateful for your education. Thank you.
I've been creeped out by this story and that entire collection for many years. It sticks with you, doesn't it? No gore needed. Thank you so much for this close reading and connecting many dots!
It does. She is the Queen and Henry James is the King of Psychological horror.
This story, despite never consummating a marriage, reminds me of how destructive an abusive relationship can be.
The aftermath of something so traumatic can leave you feeling as though you have no sense of self, and those you once thought you knew can become unknowable shadows, leering at your misforutne from a distance. You question everything you thought you knew about the world, about yourself, about the kindness you once thought the world possessed... And the pain of it lingers with you, following your steps and the haunting the tone of strnagers. It can leave you knocking at the door of what once was, what could have been, and leave you wanting.
From a modern interpretation as a person raised and still living under American society, I think this story takes on a darker tone if we looked at it from a contemporary perspective of "rugged individualism." The simplest way to define it without pulling out my political science textbook is the concept that the only way to be truly successful in life (financially, socially, romantically, whatever way you want to frame it) is to do it yourself.
No relying on government aid, no relying on your community. Only yourself.
With this framework in mind, the story of a woman trying to find a romantic partner in "Jamie" takes on a more sinister tone with the townspeople - a community she's been in for at least 34 years - don't support her in return. She's trying to reach out for support from her community when she is trying to be successful in her romantic life on her wedding day. But what does she get in return?
Ridicule, quiet judgment, outward judgment to her face. She doesn't receive that support that someone would expect from their community because, under rugged individualism, she's not doing it "correctly" by relying on her own agency and self to do so. There's an added layer of misogyny under this system that I could delve into but this comment is already too long so if anyone's interested in hearing my take on that, please reply and let me know.
After watching your other videos about Shirley Jackson, I bought her novels and the Lottery collection. This story stuck with me and I couldn’t quite say why. Your analysis is so helpful!
I am currently reading her book, “Hangsaman”.
Hi! I’m neurodivergent and sometimes get so frustrated with my inability to connect to a story when I’m stressed out trying to read and stay focused on the page- but your content has reignited my motivation to read and really makes me feel like I can approach literature and actually take the time to appreciate it! Your passion is infectious and your videos are ART ❤
One of the best literary themed videos I've ever seen.
Just a quick something that I thought about: isn't the husband in "Of Course" also named Mr. Harris? Maybe it's obvious, but do we think that Mr. Harris from "Of Course" is Jamie? He seems to reign over his wife in a similar terrible and controlling way, making a hell of her home as well. Just a thought to consider!
Looking forward to seeing what wonders Mouse is bringing us today 🐱
This is my favorite of Jackson’s short stories and I can’t express how much I appreciate this essay.
Only a few days ago 200 people in Port Prince, the capital of Haiti, many of them elderly, were killed by a gang leader in "reprisal" for the voodoo curse that he believes this community performed on his son. In Haiti's current political situation the inhabitants are incredibly vulnerable to arbitrary violence like this.
😮
The first story by Shirley Jackson I read was the one about the stoning, at age 19. It was the first horror story that got into my head for real. It haunts me to this day, over a decade later.
I love both hearing you read these stories aloud and your breakdown of the tales. Calico kitty is the cherry on top of this literary sundae! ❤
Yay! Another Shirley 🥳🥳🥳
You are the queen of UA-cam thank you for all the effort that went into this video!!!
i’m so excited 😍😍
I hate how on this platform a guy can get 10 million subscriber by playing Minecraft while going on a misogynistic tirade but engaging in depth literary analysis gets not even a fraction
we live in a patriarchy still, until its dismantled it will ALWAYS remain,
I was actually so excited when I saw this video posted. I was introduced to Shirley Jackson via the previous video on her, and have been reading lots of her stuff since - Thank you so much!
I often feel as though I'm missing some essential context or fundamental learning to understand Shirley Jackson, and I've struggled to find discussion on the different stories. I had no idea of the historical ties in the Demon Lover, it feels as though layers have opened up in the story I had no understanding of before. I love the readings, but the analysis videos are always my favorites.
She is the crazy but harmless Lady on the block . The scenario plays out over and over again. She is psychotic and they know her . She comes around every now and then and ask the same questions. The details change a bit every time. His name, his description … so they follow her in the deluge of the moment and the conversation changes a little bit every time. They pity and mock her at the same time but don’t try to scatter her illusions .
Thank you for your work. I look forward to every video.
I'm quite new to your channel, I wanted to say thank you. you've brought me a lot of joy.
I adore your analysis of Jackson's works. I hope someday you'll get to look at The Sundial. That book is so underrated.
"It's written in Scottish" 😂💕
I always wondered why Jackson's stories made me feel so scared and kind of sick. Hey, it's scary because it's true!
I'm waiting for this so bad ❤❤❤❤
It reminds me of the first part of ‘Crime and Punishment’: something terrible gets stuck in your head so hard that the outside world becomes a surreal mirror, reflecting it back to you in the casual reactions of everyone around you. Only it’s not murder, but impostor syndrome at the very idea of being loved.
I love the cat in her videos. Mouse is so cute.
Ooh yay!
Your cat is distractingly cute, hahaha! She just wants to participate 🐱
I love this so much!
Liking the video before I even finish watching it because I know it will be an amazing exploration of fiction, as always❤
Hello, Dr. Rosie (and Cats)! I recently discovered your wonderful channel and so glad I did! New subscriber looking forward to exploring your video essays. Wishing you a Happy Holiday Season! (:~)
Another video Wohoo
Today was the day my brain stitched together “When you think about it the Malleus Maleficarum fuelled Middle Ages GamerGate”
The curse of being too well read but also too online 😖
The further it goes, the more I think Midsommar was a continuation of this, with the protagonist only going off of vague feelings and misogynistic comments, all the implications of being on the outside. The actual bf doesn’t fit the hidden demon figure, but could definitely compare it the the Green Man hiding everywhere in it
Re: Rochester. Thank you! Why people persist in thinking anything other than “what an asshole” of Rochester frustrates me. I suppose it is because, ergo, “Jane is foolish.” Reader, she is! But the author doesn’t seem to know that.
I've tried to get back into reading but struggled to find the time and motivation, your videos are really helping! Would you perhaps be interested in covering non-fictional feminist literature in future?
Your cat is so pretty. She looks a lot like my girl. 💖
❤
/hits the warnings list
OH MY GOD ARE WE TALKING ABOUT *HANGSAMAN?*
can you do a video on Ursula k le Guin's "always coming home"
I'm very tired, and I saw the thumbnail and misread the name as "Siobhan Thompson"
I wonder though, if they shaved her head by force and searched her privities for a witches mark, isn't that probably torture? Assuming the stories I was told as a child about searching with a pin are correct, of course.
Thanks, just want to say to me the demon lover is a symbol of self deception, and nobody forced Jackson to get married. But she subjected herself to a cheating husband that humiliated her, and she stayed. No excuse for a bad spouse, of course. A lot of her pain comes from accepting the pain of submitting to society's expectations, less from 'patriarchy'. ❤
You might want to look into the social and financial systems of mid-century Western society before suggesting that there was no coercion exacted upon women to get married or stay with unfaithful or abusive men. And explain, precisely, the difference between society’s expectations and patriarchy. Are society’s expectations somehow not in service of patriarchy?
@katebowers8107 I don't disagree with anything you say. But society is men and women, and men were considered failures if they were single, unsuccessful, poor, etc too. Buying into societal norms is self destructive. And I'm divorced many years now, I personally experienced false guilt and blame as a method of control. It's not just male/female, it's societal expectations, and to say women are eternal victims is a falsity, I think. The demon lover is inside of us, not others. 🤎
choice is a strong word considering much of our existence today (even moreso in the oast) had extremely limited real choice, economic, social, etc. were all deeply and intrinsically tied into the expectations of norms. essentially NOT agreeing to the norms results in a life of suffering or death. its coercion on the deepest level and does purely derive from a body of power having been normalized already- this case vejng the patriarchy.
@breathoffreshair7795 knowing what I know about her mother, well, she still communicated with her, right? Her husband cheated on her before and after she was married, she still married him. It's more about buying into society's lies about what is needed to be happy. And: the females in "possibility of evil", "sundial", and many others shows she was just as aware of the negative in woman, too. She studied the anima and animus, if the male vampire (demon lover) seduces and destroys her, how much blame does the victim contain? 90% of all divorces are initiated by the wife, BTW. 🩵
Don't Be A Witch 😂
💞Here's To The Future
Following along with my copy of The Lottery and Other Stories with my overweight cat on my lap. I can think of no better way to spend a Sunday.
Dashiel the Cat says hi to your adorable feline baby ❤
After watching your other videos about Shirley Jackson, I bought her novels and the Lottery collection. This story stuck with me and I couldn’t quite say why. Your analysis is so helpful!