I can't drive past Newark High School without thinking about her, and was like 'what did she do now' funny to think that Delaware had 2 big fandom scandals😂
...tangential, but 'Dark Academia' is false advertising. Hearing that term, I expect some Lovecraft shit, tomes of forbidden knowledge, increasingly-unhinged journals from madmen working to spite God with science, artifacts from worlds beyond, maybe a little crippling opium addiction as a treat... but no, it's just diet steampunk.
Tbh the bookshelf like the show are tough to start. However I did actually finish the show ( a truly great show if you skip the first five or so episodes). I couldn't pick the book back up after chapter 2 because Quentin suuuucks. He sucks in the show too, but once he isn't the main focus for the entire episode, the show improves wildly.
I could not start the show. I gave episode 1 a shot and found all the characters completely out of wack. The books are way better because the characters are unlikeable and a bit maladjusted. It's like lev says, Hogwarts but take away the sage bumbledore and the evil voldemort. Quentin and the reader go in expecting the wonder of hogwarts the magic, but it's not. I don't think Quentin even becomes likeable until the last book, when he's in his 30s.
@@letsbehonest6322 I hated Quentin so much that I could not finish them either. I also really liked the TV show, because while it was a little tropey the actors did such a good job with some of the ensemble, (Especially Eliot) and then went WILDLY off script from the books, that it actually made it better for me by a lot. I think that I fall really heavily under the "protagonist must be likable" concept. That does not mean they need to be good, or even a person I would actually like, but more that they must be interesting for some reason. If they are interesting to me because they are good and fun and I would want to be their friend, great. If they are interesting because they are morally challenging and drive me to question my stances on things, great. If they are interesting because they are evil, but are so in a way that I had never considered, also great. Those are all forms of likablility to me. Quentin, on the other hand, was like a physical manifestation of my own depression mixed with a health dose of narcissism. That does not mean his character is bad, or that he could not have been interesting to other people, but for me it was like looking at a more boring, more powerful, and more cruel version of my own mental health struggles, but in a person who did nothing to attempt to redeem themselves. So I ended up really, really, hating him. He was like a bizarro reflection of my own fears of inadequacy made manifest in the worst version of a person I could be, but with magic. When he eventually hurt Alice, that was basically it for me, I could not bear to hear his thoughts anymore. The TV show is a lot more classic in it fantasy tropes, and sidesteps some of the theoretically more interesting bits of the books, but the characters were slightly more sympathetic, and so it gave me something to latch onto emotionally without just feeling creeping disgust. That said, if Grossman was going for disgust, he did a fantastic job.
I’ve read/ watched several things that are under the category of “Harry Potter but _____” the ones that initially come to mind are “carry on Simon snow” “the iron trials” and “the worst witch” (which was so similar my father with no Harry Potter experience commented on it, and he’s not wrong, it’s really really similar, and he ended up looking up if there any been any copyright lawsuits, only to discover that the worst witch was written about ten years prior). And I would have to say, I generally like the “derivative” of Harry Potter” books more than the Harry Potter books, they seem to be better thought out, but I do think the weird that Harry Potter is the go to comparison. I haven’t finished the video. But already some of the examples sound like, this has kids in a school, what can we compare this to. I find it interesting that this is the go to cultural touch point. I think that this has kind of lead to the “un canceled” nature of jk Rowling, because people want to say “she can’t be bad, she invented kids at schools”. But as I previously mentioned, the worst witch came out before Harry Potter, and has many similarities, (such as a Malfoy analog, a Snape analog, and hermione and Ron analog, and a girl who doesn’t know she’s a witch untill it’s time for her to go to school. Is it different, yes, but there are a lot of things that can be teased directly from one to the other. I would also argue they handled the malfoy, Snape and dumbledor plot lines way better, like Snape analog isnt abusive, but is called out, malfoy is given actual redemption, and the dulbledor analog is given a reason that she’s keeping secrets) I think it just kind of sucks that she’s seen as this visionary of media, when all she’s really doing is pulling bits from other places. Not that I don’t think derivative content can’t be good, I shut think it’s weird that she’s lauded as a visionary.
Laughed out loud at the idea that "she invented kids in schools" She literally just took the abusive and dying institution of English boarding schools and propped their corpse up with some fantasy tropes.
@ hey, I want to specify, I personally do not think that she invented that concept, it’s just weirdly similar to some things that I’ve seen other people saying. They are so quick to lay all this praise on her “creativity”, when, for example, houses are a thing in real british school and have been, I’m pretty sure it was also in the worst witch, but I haven’t checked.
Both Worst Witch and HP are both examples of the public school adventure novel where a group of kids at a British public school get into a series of adventures. Think Enid Blyton, or Tom Brown's School Days, or even something like The Chocolate Wars. We can see that the early HP novels follow that style quite well, with a "monster of the book" kind of thing. It also explains the shitty world building: it's not a fantasy world, it's a British public school with a fantasy filter on.
I've never read the worst witch books, but there is a movie that came out in 1986 that practically has the exact same broom scene as the sorcerer's stone. Minus the quidditch stuff.
Oh yeah there is even the pretty good worst witch series, and while she has some special power its more hinderance and going awry till she has a grip on it. So yeah better media about a magic school?
"Lootcrate t-shirt core" was such an outrageously scathing insult I literally said out loud "oh my god" out of involuntary reflex like you would if you accidentally broke something. I would fake my own death and move to a different country if someone said that about me or anything even remotely associated with me.
I just got my wisdom teeth out, and I was looking for a video to just watch, where I didn’t have to watch a bunch of tiny videos. Thanks Laura, perfect timing!
@ thank you! I’m feeling better, but I currently cannot close my mouth, or put any pressure on my face so it’s difficult to find a position to lie down in.
Wish you a smooth recovery + recommend Jenny Nicholson's long videos too. They're wild and some of the most baffling good stuff I've ever seen (the Hallmark one is something alright)
@@pralinec9247 aww, thank you so much! I’ve actually been listening to Jenny Nicholson videos already! I think her videos are great,my favorite one is the Star Wars hotel one, I feel she has a knack for talking topics I otherwise wouldn’t care about and making them interesting. Thank you for your well wishes, and thank you for the recommendation, I really appreciate it. 🫶🏻
Flawed Peacock here on UA-cam has multiple hours long videos to put on. They're really good and he has a soothing voice like Laura. I hope your recovery goes well. I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted at the hospital under anesthesia because of several complications. It took a few months for my face to go back to normal. I learned to swallow with my lips slightly parted to avoid changes in pressure in my mouth. I was terrified of dry socket and that trick seemed to help ensure my stitches didn't pop open. Lots of rest, liquid food at room temperature, pain medications as scheduled, and you should be on the other side no problem. 😊
ready player one is like harry potter for grownups in that theyre both extremely derivative and uncreative, but ready player one has sex and swear words
I did *not* click because I saw 'Harry Potter for Grownups' I clicked because I saw 'Laura Crone'. I knew The Magicians was being referenced in the thumbnail, I've read the books. I wouldn't get a snack, get some tea, pop an aderall and click on a random 4.5 hour video because of 'The Magicians'.
@@totallynotmrsinister8705 Well I am pleased to brighten your day. She said in the video essentially people clicked on it because of the clickbait title and thumbnail. Seemed kind of self deprecating when I've been waiting for her to release a new video. It's like 'No, you're the clickbait dammit.'
@@olivercetus6956 I have pretty bad ADHD. To the point I can take a high dose of aderall which is essentially meth and sleep like a baby. There is no *way* I can stay engaged with anything and actually pay attention for four and a half hours straight without meds.
1:30:52 I’m bi/ace, and I support nearly everything in this section so much. But I particularly love the book passage here: the wounded, “Hey! I could totally be that! …Actually, maybe I couldn’t, and they’d never get past that.”
This was so interesting! I've never read The Magicians, nor watched the adaptation, but the way you talk about the different ways they each approach the same world and characters is so fascinating. I've never thought about the plot/character-driven divide in 'this happened so that...' vs 'this happened because' terms, but that will definitely stay with me as a way to articulate what a novel is trying to do. Genre is a really sticky and complicated thing that seems to mean different things in different contexts. Like you said, This is How You Lose the Time War is not what we expect of science fiction, but I would argue it still *is* science fiction in its setting/worldbuilding. You brought up Babel fleetingly, but I think that's actually a very apt comparison, as it's a book that does seem to mainly have been labelled dark academia, even though it's *also* fantasy and *also* historical fiction. It sounds like The Magicians should fall into this category, with the fantastical nature coming secondarily to the understanding that it is dark academia, at least in terms of structure and genre conventions. (Sidenote, you're the second person I've come across calling Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell dark academia, which deeply confuses and fascinates me. It's my favourite book and I'm currently on my third time through it, but the dark academia label just seems so strange to apply. Like, I guess??? But also no... I would conceptualise it more as a social novel that happens to have academics and a fantastical historical backdrop. Like your mother, I feel its closest comparison is Dickens and Austen. But there you go, genre means different things to different people when it comes to different books! There will never be a 100% easy way to categorise all books. They will always to some extent defy classification.) Anyway, when you initially introduced The Magicians with the 'Harry Potter but with sex and drugs' quotes at the beginning I was very much not interested but, now that you've explained how much the books deconstruct fantasy tropes, I definitely am. I also love characters who are little shits, so that certainly appeals. I've added it to my endlessly long list of books I would one day like to get round to!
I'm so glad you made another video like this. I've read The Magicians twice now. The first time I strongly identified with Quentin and felt seen in a way I rarely do. The second, I realized that everybody except Alice was insufferable, and I really appreciate how that got pulled off. Never read the sequels, but this convinced me that maybe I ought to change that.
For whats worth, it apearently is as the second quenting isnt the POV and book 3 people even like him. and he isnt the only POV either. I think the common recomendation is that, yeah quentib sucks the others are less insufferable if well written in view of a jerk.
started shaking and weeping when i cottoned on to what this video was about the magicians in both forms mean more to me than i can express and i am so glad that you are the person that ended up making this video
This prompted me to check the time on this video and uh. The HP critique ones are always at least 2 hours...and I watch them every time, seriously appreciating the work
I am commenting only partway through because you deserve all the engagement possible on this video, so I'm gonna thread lol but your pink aisle of crime fiction is one of my favorite youtube videos anyone has ever made and when I realized this video feels like a sister video to that one I felt like I could go run a lap around my block. I'm so stoked. Thanks for making this
Main thing that I think is worth pointing out about HP is how *mean* the series is. There’s the whole misogyny thing, but also there’s stuff like how Luna is treated as a nuisance and an embarrassment to tolerate out of pity at best. Like I’m autistic and the idea that everyone around me is making fun of me in ways I don’t recognize and only tolerate me out of pity was my worst fear growing up, and the books imply that Luna being treated like that is Okay Actually because she’s weird My point is, the signs that Rowling is terrible were there and we just didn’t see it
Must say, as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation and intent in their life, your brief interlude in the section regarding the show's handling of such subject matter reaching out to anyone who may be feeling that and giving resources for help would have probably been a big help for me in my lowest moments if I'd been watching this during them
This video is like Harry Potter for grown ups Edit: as someone currently in the process of reading for & writing a similar video (albeit for a completely different series) and I completely sympathize with how long this video must've taken.
"Hey I know that voice!" Always a reassuring discovery when watching a youtube creator I'm unfamiliar with. If these other people I'd trust with my time are okay with being associated with them, then I'll probably enjoy this person's video too.
Half an hour in and I'm so excited for more! It's so fun to see someone talk about something they love thoughtfully, and with all the work that's clearly gone into this analysis, I'm sure it's going to be great. Also, this video may have convinced me to read Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell lol
I am thrilled to get four and a half hours of a Laura Crone video! I've missed your vids in the last 11 months. I hope you are well and living your best life! I'm so hyped to get something new that the rest of my day is gone, all that exists for the next 4 1/2 hours is this video and probably a couple snacks.
loved the literary fiction rant!!! i had an almost identical experience with the reading test thing as a kid. 'the corrections' isn't some impenetrable difficult book. it's long & takes a little while to get going, but it's an accessible fun read imo.
Dropping everything now that I got this notification, and I was never even into this series. You just have a way of conveying information that I'm always down to hear
I definitely relate to the reading level test thing. When I was in elementary school I had a similar test and I remember intentionally getting things wrong so that it would not give me books high above my level and I could just read what I wanted.
Some of the best reading experiences I've ever had were picking up a book not knowing exactly what genre it was and just letting it *take* me. This essay is a behemoth, hats off to you; I'm not done with it yet but I just wanted to politely add that genre doesn't need to dictate how you read or interpret art, and going into literary works with that mindset can sometimes ruin a book for me (looking at you, Catcher in the Rye). I've actually experienced the same book differently depending on the mindset I start reading it with, and maybe that's what you were saying and I took the words to literally (a thing I do sometimes). Apologies if my comment comes across negatively; I always feel like out of place adding my single little thought to an essay like this that you've put so much time and effort into; it is an amazing essay and I hope you keep making more like them
you wrote half a book worth of words, edited 2 movies worth of footage, and spent god knows how many hours on this. At the very least you deserve a like lol
Oh I am SO happy to see another unreasonably long video essay from you. Edit: AND it's about a book I read uncritically when I was young and remember liking a lot? Thanks for the Patreon nudge. Subbed.
1:55:09 "the words came out of his mouth of their own malevolent volition" is going in my head forever right alongside The Hours describing a pug dog's face as being overtaken by "a moist, wheezing bafflement"
Pausing at 1:30 ish for comment one: Laura, I really love your stuff, and how elegantly you’re able to convey your perspective on this thing that you clearly love on so many levels, and ALSO that your editor (probably based on your notes) has so elegantly synced up individual beats of your commentary with really banger background music. Such a great video essay in a world where really good ones are fewer and further between these days… for the reasons you explained up top, I get it. I won some money in a court case recently, gonna sub on the Patreon probably. See you in comment 2.
1:34:00 weirdly spoke to me. I’ve heard this kinda explanation of attraction before, but never juxtaposed with a monogamous relationship. I’m a queer person who has an unbalanced attraction across the gender binary, who usually dates gender queer people who defy that binary and thus that odd ranked attraction. That brief explanation made me fully process why I felt weird dating cis men. It wasn’t some complex identity question, or strange internalized thing, I am just less interested in that component of the relationship. tldr: it’s just Thai food forever and I don’t need to feel weird keeping it as a sporadic thing
Comment 3! I’m gonna need to rewatch/ relisten to a lot of this. An impressive selection of guest voices, banger soundtrack, beautiful editing, a lot of really nuanced opinions about fiction, criticism, media literacy, and aesthetics, among many many other things, and a truly beautiful conclusion that made me feel touched at not quite the end of a pretty hard week. Thanks for all of it.
I clicked the video out of curiosity about the title, not realizing it was about one of my favorite medium concepts and I SCREECHED when you started the intro talking about the magicians wkhstsysys 😭
Lev Grossman's most recent book The Bright Sword is one of the best books of the year, a look at the lesser known Kights of the Round Table invokes deep history and has great prose. That said I've never read The Magicians and probably never will but I highly recommend The Bright Sword.
excellent video. I really loved the Bit atbthe end, especially the taggifcation/tropification stuff, which i have also pushed back against in discussions with friends. As a small addition to this i think some peoplen dont known that the Library of congress catalogue works in a very similar way; in american printings of books on the copywrite page there is a list of how the book is catalogued listed there, or a link to the books web page in the catalogue. It's not dissimilar to the way social media uses it as a marketing thing. Also you talking about how people can have varring and unique recommendations for what is and isnt dark academia reminded me of the time i saw someone call GIDEON THE NINTH dark academia, which is just... I could maybe see Harrow the Ninth being called that but GtN as a standalone is wayyyy to into my beautiful Gideon's silly jock brain to be Dark Academia. Its CLEARLY a gothic Taskmaster novelisation
My ideal magical discipline would be making secret rooms and doors that go to multiple places and stuff, but fixing small objects would be a really nice second choice. Meanwhile, once a time I asked my sisters what kind of magic they would want to teach at Hogwarts, and one of them answered, “Well it might only be taught at the very introductory level, but I would want to teach magical shoving.”
You definitely earned a subscription with this one. Absolutely amazing content, fantastic writing, production. I love both the show and the books, even the musical scenes and I _hate_ musicals.
I’m so grateful for your one video a year. I have watched the pink aisle crime one 14 times cover to cover and used it as a Christmas gift guide for half my family.
I can confirm, the super long form video essays on childhood media are 100% the best background sound for moving house while processing painful social stuff. Good luck btw, hopefully things are just better from here 🩵
it's funny how you say that the characters were made likeable in the show when i personally found them to be very annoying lmao. about margo and eliot: i don't know if i was questioning things when i first watched the show but i thought it was so nice that there were two people who were the closest to each other and were always together and showed afffection physically who weren't romantically involved. it's kinda weird to find out that wasn't the case in the books. i never saw them in that light and it honestly feels like when you see people ship characters that you percieve as siblings. they might not be related even a little bit but you still make a face when you see even a mention of them. and i saw her jealousy as the kind that i had when my friend chose someone else to hang out with over me. it sucks when you only have one person in your life but their life is bigger and more social and you get scared you have no space in it anymore. now i wonder if it simply didn't register to me like many other romantic things in fiction go over my head and then make me angry. more confusion to come, i guess. anyway, this was a great video, i've been looking for something like this on this show for so long, thank you for all your hard work!!
I really like this one! I'm a new viewer so I didn't know what to expect coming in but I thought this was a really tastefully done and interesting analysis of a series I had previously dismissed. I think the only episode of show was before an episode of the expanse and it was mostly just vaguely handsome looking guys running around the woods so I cataloged it in the back of my mind as a thing I would never experience. Definitely going to pick up the books when I decided to go back into sci-fi after my break from it! But I'll admit I do feel a tiny bit clickbaited? You opening was incredibly well done and I thought we were going to get a 4 hour analysis on the way we classify media, comparison to others, and how we make books stand out in a world that's becoming increasingly shrunk in influence but more accessible than ever. So the fact that it was mostly about one particular book series and a compare and contrast between book and TV show is a bit jarring, but I still enjoyed it.
Just finished watching this on Nevbla, and what an incredible ride it was! Im def gonna have to rewatch when I have time to watch four and a half hours basically uninterrupted, but the way everything ties together is so wonderful and its really fun to watch you untangle this thing that clearly has so much significance to you in a surprisingly accessible way. awesome video!
Loving the analysis to far. As a fan of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, learning magic is a big part of the books, so I think that's what they were using add the connection in the pitch.
I actually read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell whilst still in High School, while Harry Potter and Twilight was around. It's still one of my favourite books. I also loved the Magicians trilogy but never saw the show.
Love when the yoyrube algorithm serves me 4 and a half hour video essays about random stuff i'm somewhat interested in, might take some days to watch this
Thank you for this video, I've wanted a video essay about The Magicians (I've only watched the show but I'm excited to get into the books now) for such a long time because boy HOWDY it's got so much to pull apart. It's simultaneously somehow dark fantasy with seriously horrifying plotlines and serious gore, heartfelt character moments and complex interpersonal drama, and goofy comedy with completely unnecessary musical numbers. It pulls off some great plotlines and can be so intriguing and so much fun, but it also has some of the toughest content I've ever come across (I cannot watch the scene with the summoning of our lady of the underground) and it regularly trips over its own dick because of how convoluted its plotlines get and how it tries to resolve them. I've wanted to know how other people have experienced it and I'm so excited to get into a video essay breaking down so much of it, at an hour in there's so much I'm glad you've touched on already. Thanks for putting a year of effort into this, your work is absolutely shining through and I'm looking forward to watching the rest as soon as possible!
I had no idea this video was about The Magicians when I clicked on it. The serendipity of it all. I am a massive fan of the books and your take is spot frickin on. The show's a silly goofy fun time too but maaan, them books....
I vividly remember watching a trailer to this show (or I think this show) that would play all the time that would flash the words "Magic is a drug. Get hooked."
I hate comp titles, like game of thrones means epic, like hunger games means some form of competition, like ACOTAR means romantasy and so much more, they just use a popular book to describe a genre when they are nothing alike
I saw the runtime and I very excitably grabbed my steam deck to play Balatro whilst listening. I already know this is going to have so many good ideas!
That gives me an idea for a "fun run" where I only pick "magical" Jokers. Or maybe focus on the Tarot Cards more heavily. Or something! Balatro is great for theorycrafting and fun runs!
I have never heard of this book or the TV show and I can’t to figure out why. I’m a Millennial, I read Harry Potter and other fantasy series and I was nearly the same age as the characters when the books were being released.
2:29:30 I seem to remember an era of media where no one mentioned pop culture stuff around them, but if you talk to kids and university students a huge amount of their conversation is about the media they consume. In that era, they just made up a show to "reference". I wonder if everyone was afraid to get sued if you had a kid mention Gumby in your show or something.
Thank you dearly Laura- the second I saw this yesterday I knew what I’d have going in one ear while I sell gifts at a holiday mart in a busy ass city. Even though I only know this series as “the one that they kept putting musical junk in.” via my mom.
Dominic jump scare in the first second? Oh you *know* this is gonna be good
😘
i was double checking the channel
Him and Kyle Kalgren
I have never been happier to hear him. Because I really didn't wanna watch a video Harry Potter.
I had to double check what channel this was because I heard his voice and thought I clicked the wrong video😂😂😂
These reviews really like using drug metaphors that sound like they came from people who have never done drugs.
Yeah how much MJ did these critics snort off a table when they wrote these reviews?
Cool intro!
I saw "Harry Potter for Grown-Ups" in the title and had flashbacks to several msscribe videos
same
I can't drive past Newark High School without thinking about her, and was like 'what did she do now'
funny to think that Delaware had 2 big fandom scandals😂
@@elizabethinglee-richards7112 what's the other one?
...tangential, but 'Dark Academia' is false advertising. Hearing that term, I expect some Lovecraft shit, tomes of forbidden knowledge, increasingly-unhinged journals from madmen working to spite God with science, artifacts from worlds beyond, maybe a little crippling opium addiction as a treat... but no, it's just diet steampunk.
Not even that, it's just. Snobby collegiate preppiness with a veneer of a whiff of an inkling of gloomy romanticism. Prep: the genre.
Yeah wait, why is it even called "Dark"?
perfect for me, who finds Steampunk too sugary.
Thats your own fault. That's like. Not what that means.
@@AeonKnigh432 sorry for making a silly joke. i won't do it again.
This Video likely will convince me I need to read the Magicians Right now or convince me I should never read them ever. I'm excited to discover which.
Tbh the bookshelf like the show are tough to start. However I did actually finish the show ( a truly great show if you skip the first five or so episodes). I couldn't pick the book back up after chapter 2 because Quentin suuuucks. He sucks in the show too, but once he isn't the main focus for the entire episode, the show improves wildly.
@@letsbehonest6322exactly!! I loved the world but being stuck in Quentin's head is a type of torture I didn't know existed
I could not start the show. I gave episode 1 a shot and found all the characters completely out of wack. The books are way better because the characters are unlikeable and a bit maladjusted. It's like lev says, Hogwarts but take away the sage bumbledore and the evil voldemort. Quentin and the reader go in expecting the wonder of hogwarts the magic, but it's not. I don't think Quentin even becomes likeable until the last book, when he's in his 30s.
@@letsbehonest6322
I hated Quentin so much that I could not finish them either. I also really liked the TV show, because while it was a little tropey the actors did such a good job with some of the ensemble, (Especially Eliot) and then went WILDLY off script from the books, that it actually made it better for me by a lot.
I think that I fall really heavily under the "protagonist must be likable" concept. That does not mean they need to be good, or even a person I would actually like, but more that they must be interesting for some reason. If they are interesting to me because they are good and fun and I would want to be their friend, great. If they are interesting because they are morally challenging and drive me to question my stances on things, great. If they are interesting because they are evil, but are so in a way that I had never considered, also great. Those are all forms of likablility to me.
Quentin, on the other hand, was like a physical manifestation of my own depression mixed with a health dose of narcissism. That does not mean his character is bad, or that he could not have been interesting to other people, but for me it was like looking at a more boring, more powerful, and more cruel version of my own mental health struggles, but in a person who did nothing to attempt to redeem themselves. So I ended up really, really, hating him. He was like a bizarro reflection of my own fears of inadequacy made manifest in the worst version of a person I could be, but with magic. When he eventually hurt Alice, that was basically it for me, I could not bear to hear his thoughts anymore.
The TV show is a lot more classic in it fantasy tropes, and sidesteps some of the theoretically more interesting bits of the books, but the characters were slightly more sympathetic, and so it gave me something to latch onto emotionally without just feeling creeping disgust.
That said, if Grossman was going for disgust, he did a fantastic job.
The Magicians is truly the Dark Souls of grossly inappropriate comparisons.
Love that we’re talking more and more about the weird rhetorical trappings of marketing books as other books.
“I am the hero of this goddamned story, Ember! Remember? And the hero gets the reward!”
“No, Quentin,” the Ram said.
“The hero pays the price.”
No, i clicked on this video because i work a 12 hour shift, its a 4 hour video, and you are nice to listen to. Joanne controls none of my choices.
I’ve read/ watched several things that are under the category of “Harry Potter but _____” the ones that initially come to mind are “carry on Simon snow” “the iron trials” and “the worst witch” (which was so similar my father with no Harry Potter experience commented on it, and he’s not wrong, it’s really really similar, and he ended up looking up if there any been any copyright lawsuits, only to discover that the worst witch was written about ten years prior). And I would have to say, I generally like the “derivative” of Harry Potter” books more than the Harry Potter books, they seem to be better thought out, but I do think the weird that Harry Potter is the go to comparison. I haven’t finished the video. But already some of the examples sound like, this has kids in a school, what can we compare this to. I find it interesting that this is the go to cultural touch point. I think that this has kind of lead to the “un canceled” nature of jk Rowling, because people want to say “she can’t be bad, she invented kids at schools”. But as I previously mentioned, the worst witch came out before Harry Potter, and has many similarities, (such as a Malfoy analog, a Snape analog, and hermione and Ron analog, and a girl who doesn’t know she’s a witch untill it’s time for her to go to school. Is it different, yes, but there are a lot of things that can be teased directly from one to the other. I would also argue they handled the malfoy, Snape and dumbledor plot lines way better, like Snape analog isnt abusive, but is called out, malfoy is given actual redemption, and the dulbledor analog is given a reason that she’s keeping secrets)
I think it just kind of sucks that she’s seen as this visionary of media, when all she’s really doing is pulling bits from other places. Not that I don’t think derivative content can’t be good, I shut think it’s weird that she’s lauded as a visionary.
Laughed out loud at the idea that "she invented kids in schools"
She literally just took the abusive and dying institution of English boarding schools and propped their corpse up with some fantasy tropes.
@ hey, I want to specify, I personally do not think that she invented that concept, it’s just weirdly similar to some things that I’ve seen other people saying. They are so quick to lay all this praise on her “creativity”, when, for example, houses are a thing in real british school and have been, I’m pretty sure it was also in the worst witch, but I haven’t checked.
Both Worst Witch and HP are both examples of the public school adventure novel where a group of kids at a British public school get into a series of adventures. Think Enid Blyton, or Tom Brown's School Days, or even something like The Chocolate Wars. We can see that the early HP novels follow that style quite well, with a "monster of the book" kind of thing. It also explains the shitty world building: it's not a fantasy world, it's a British public school with a fantasy filter on.
I've never read the worst witch books, but there is a movie that came out in 1986 that practically has the exact same broom scene as the sorcerer's stone. Minus the quidditch stuff.
Oh yeah there is even the pretty good worst witch series, and while she has some special power its more hinderance and going awry till she has a grip on it. So yeah better media about a magic school?
Me recognizing Dominic Noble, Jessie Gender, Coldcrash Pictures and so many other faves in the intro... I'm sold!
"Lootcrate t-shirt core" was such an outrageously scathing insult I literally said out loud "oh my god" out of involuntary reflex like you would if you accidentally broke something. I would fake my own death and move to a different country if someone said that about me or anything even remotely associated with me.
I just got my wisdom teeth out, and I was looking for a video to just watch, where I didn’t have to watch a bunch of tiny videos. Thanks Laura, perfect timing!
Wishing you a smooth recovery ❤️❤️
@ thank you! I’m feeling better, but I currently cannot close my mouth, or put any pressure on my face so it’s difficult to find a position to lie down in.
Wish you a smooth recovery + recommend Jenny Nicholson's long videos too. They're wild and some of the most baffling good stuff I've ever seen (the Hallmark one is something alright)
@@pralinec9247 aww, thank you so much! I’ve actually been listening to Jenny Nicholson videos already! I think her videos are great,my favorite one is the Star Wars hotel one, I feel she has a knack for talking topics I otherwise wouldn’t care about and making them interesting. Thank you for your well wishes, and thank you for the recommendation, I really appreciate it. 🫶🏻
Flawed Peacock here on UA-cam has multiple hours long videos to put on. They're really good and he has a soothing voice like Laura. I hope your recovery goes well. I had to have my wisdom teeth extracted at the hospital under anesthesia because of several complications. It took a few months for my face to go back to normal. I learned to swallow with my lips slightly parted to avoid changes in pressure in my mouth. I was terrified of dry socket and that trick seemed to help ensure my stitches didn't pop open. Lots of rest, liquid food at room temperature, pain medications as scheduled, and you should be on the other side no problem. 😊
And when we needed a new 4 hour long video essay the most, she returned.
Happy to see you back❤
ready player one is like harry potter for grownups in that theyre both extremely derivative and uncreative, but ready player one has sex and swear words
I did *not* click because I saw 'Harry Potter for Grownups' I clicked because I saw 'Laura Crone'. I knew The Magicians was being referenced in the thumbnail, I've read the books. I wouldn't get a snack, get some tea, pop an aderall and click on a random 4.5 hour video because of 'The Magicians'.
this comment is extremely funny to me
@@totallynotmrsinister8705 Well I am pleased to brighten your day. She said in the video essentially people clicked on it because of the clickbait title and thumbnail. Seemed kind of self deprecating when I've been waiting for her to release a new video. It's like 'No, you're the clickbait dammit.'
I only clicked in case I need to defend "the magicians"
You need aderall to watch a film 😭????
@@olivercetus6956 I have pretty bad ADHD. To the point I can take a high dose of aderall which is essentially meth and sleep like a baby. There is no *way* I can stay engaged with anything and actually pay attention for four and a half hours straight without meds.
1:30:52 I’m bi/ace, and I support nearly everything in this section so much. But I particularly love the book passage here: the wounded, “Hey! I could totally be that! …Actually, maybe I couldn’t, and they’d never get past that.”
This was so interesting! I've never read The Magicians, nor watched the adaptation, but the way you talk about the different ways they each approach the same world and characters is so fascinating. I've never thought about the plot/character-driven divide in 'this happened so that...' vs 'this happened because' terms, but that will definitely stay with me as a way to articulate what a novel is trying to do.
Genre is a really sticky and complicated thing that seems to mean different things in different contexts. Like you said, This is How You Lose the Time War is not what we expect of science fiction, but I would argue it still *is* science fiction in its setting/worldbuilding. You brought up Babel fleetingly, but I think that's actually a very apt comparison, as it's a book that does seem to mainly have been labelled dark academia, even though it's *also* fantasy and *also* historical fiction. It sounds like The Magicians should fall into this category, with the fantastical nature coming secondarily to the understanding that it is dark academia, at least in terms of structure and genre conventions.
(Sidenote, you're the second person I've come across calling Jonathan Strange & Mr Norrell dark academia, which deeply confuses and fascinates me. It's my favourite book and I'm currently on my third time through it, but the dark academia label just seems so strange to apply. Like, I guess??? But also no... I would conceptualise it more as a social novel that happens to have academics and a fantastical historical backdrop. Like your mother, I feel its closest comparison is Dickens and Austen. But there you go, genre means different things to different people when it comes to different books! There will never be a 100% easy way to categorise all books. They will always to some extent defy classification.)
Anyway, when you initially introduced The Magicians with the 'Harry Potter but with sex and drugs' quotes at the beginning I was very much not interested but, now that you've explained how much the books deconstruct fantasy tropes, I definitely am. I also love characters who are little shits, so that certainly appeals. I've added it to my endlessly long list of books I would one day like to get round to!
I'm so glad you made another video like this. I've read The Magicians twice now. The first time I strongly identified with Quentin and felt seen in a way I rarely do. The second, I realized that everybody except Alice was insufferable, and I really appreciate how that got pulled off. Never read the sequels, but this convinced me that maybe I ought to change that.
For whats worth, it apearently is as the second quenting isnt the POV and book 3 people even like him. and he isnt the only POV either. I think the common recomendation is that, yeah quentib sucks the others are less insufferable if well written in view of a jerk.
"Who put the nukes in the ant farm? That's not where those go" has got to be my favorite line in possibly all of UA-cam.
Sorry WHAT? Ready Player One as HPFGU is insane. Thats so funny
started shaking and weeping when i cottoned on to what this video was about the magicians in both forms mean more to me than i can express and i am so glad that you are the person that ended up making this video
Ohhh this is a dangerous video to have pop up less than 2 hours before I should go sleep. No regrets are gonna be had either way
This prompted me to check the time on this video and uh.
The HP critique ones are always at least 2 hours...and I watch them every time, seriously appreciating the work
I am commenting only partway through because you deserve all the engagement possible on this video, so I'm gonna thread lol but your pink aisle of crime fiction is one of my favorite youtube videos anyone has ever made and when I realized this video feels like a sister video to that one I felt like I could go run a lap around my block. I'm so stoked. Thanks for making this
Main thing that I think is worth pointing out about HP is how *mean* the series is. There’s the whole misogyny thing, but also there’s stuff like how Luna is treated as a nuisance and an embarrassment to tolerate out of pity at best. Like I’m autistic and the idea that everyone around me is making fun of me in ways I don’t recognize and only tolerate me out of pity was my worst fear growing up, and the books imply that Luna being treated like that is Okay Actually because she’s weird
My point is, the signs that Rowling is terrible were there and we just didn’t see it
All of this. 💯💯
Must say, as someone who has struggled with suicidal ideation and intent in their life, your brief interlude in the section regarding the show's handling of such subject matter reaching out to anyone who may be feeling that and giving resources for help would have probably been a big help for me in my lowest moments if I'd been watching this during them
This video is like Harry Potter for grown ups
Edit: as someone currently in the process of reading for & writing a similar video (albeit for a completely different series) and I completely sympathize with how long this video must've taken.
All the narrators i recognized made me smile :)c
"Hey I know that voice!"
Always a reassuring discovery when watching a youtube creator I'm unfamiliar with. If these other people I'd trust with my time are okay with being associated with them, then I'll probably enjoy this person's video too.
Half an hour in and I'm so excited for more! It's so fun to see someone talk about something they love thoughtfully, and with all the work that's clearly gone into this analysis, I'm sure it's going to be great.
Also, this video may have convinced me to read Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell lol
4 hours. I shall never feel hungry again, finally, my soul is at peace and I am being fed.
The two things I love most in a video essay -- deeply thoughtful and nuanced analysis... and Self-Revelation through the lens of Hocus Pocus
I am thrilled to get four and a half hours of a Laura Crone video! I've missed your vids in the last 11 months. I hope you are well and living your best life! I'm so hyped to get something new that the rest of my day is gone, all that exists for the next 4 1/2 hours is this video and probably a couple snacks.
WAKE UP BABE LAURA CRONE JUST POSTED!!! OMG I'm so gla your back!!
loved the literary fiction rant!!! i had an almost identical experience with the reading test thing as a kid.
'the corrections' isn't some impenetrable difficult book. it's long & takes a little while to get going, but it's an accessible fun read imo.
I never thought of HP when I read/watched this but I did really steep in the Narnia and Alakatraz vs. the Evil Librarians
Dropping everything now that I got this notification, and I was never even into this series. You just have a way of conveying information that I'm always down to hear
I definitely relate to the reading level test thing. When I was in elementary school I had a similar test and I remember intentionally getting things wrong so that it would not give me books high above my level and I could just read what I wanted.
Let it be stated that I read Farenheit 451 for fun in like 6th grade.
Maybe the real Magic Industrial complex was the friends we made along the way.
Glad you're back!
Always exciting to see video from Laura Crone, and the subject!
LET HARVEY GUILLÉN BE HAPPY ON TV DAMMIT.
Some of the best reading experiences I've ever had were picking up a book not knowing exactly what genre it was and just letting it *take* me.
This essay is a behemoth, hats off to you; I'm not done with it yet but I just wanted to politely add that genre doesn't need to dictate how you read or interpret art, and going into literary works with that mindset can sometimes ruin a book for me (looking at you, Catcher in the Rye). I've actually experienced the same book differently depending on the mindset I start reading it with, and maybe that's what you were saying and I took the words to literally (a thing I do sometimes).
Apologies if my comment comes across negatively; I always feel like out of place adding my single little thought to an essay like this that you've put so much time and effort into; it is an amazing essay and I hope you keep making more like them
Laura kicking ass like always
you wrote half a book worth of words, edited 2 movies worth of footage, and spent god knows how many hours on this. At the very least you deserve a like lol
This is becoming my favorite channel on the internet. I really hope this amazing video essay gets the recognition it deserves!
Oh I am SO happy to see another unreasonably long video essay from you.
Edit: AND it's about a book I read uncritically when I was young and remember liking a lot?
Thanks for the Patreon nudge. Subbed.
Harry Potter with drugs and sex? Isn't that just the Marauders fandom?
I searched you out YESTERDAY to see if I'd missed any videos. Amazing timing! This shall be my laundry and arting podcast.
You made me start watching this show. Thanks dude!
1:55:09 "the words came out of his mouth of their own malevolent volition" is going in my head forever right alongside The Hours describing a pug dog's face as being overtaken by "a moist, wheezing bafflement"
I just checked your channel the other day hoping you'd upload soon! Hooray! We are well fed with this one.
Watching this Laura Crone video is like doing mushrooms with Sarah Z.
Pausing at 1:30 ish for comment one: Laura, I really love your stuff, and how elegantly you’re able to convey your perspective on this thing that you clearly love on so many levels, and ALSO that your editor (probably based on your notes) has so elegantly synced up individual beats of your commentary with really banger background music. Such a great video essay in a world where really good ones are fewer and further between these days… for the reasons you explained up top, I get it. I won some money in a court case recently, gonna sub on the Patreon probably. See you in comment 2.
1:34:00 weirdly spoke to me.
I’ve heard this kinda explanation of attraction before, but never juxtaposed with a monogamous relationship. I’m a queer person who has an unbalanced attraction across the gender binary, who usually dates gender queer people who defy that binary and thus that odd ranked attraction.
That brief explanation made me fully process why I felt weird dating cis men. It wasn’t some complex identity question, or strange internalized thing, I am just less interested in that component of the relationship.
tldr: it’s just Thai food forever and I don’t need to feel weird keeping it as a sporadic thing
Comment 3! I’m gonna need to rewatch/ relisten to a lot of this. An impressive selection of guest voices, banger soundtrack, beautiful editing, a lot of really nuanced opinions about fiction, criticism, media literacy, and aesthetics, among many many other things, and a truly beautiful conclusion that made me feel touched at not quite the end of a pretty hard week. Thanks for all of it.
I clicked the video out of curiosity about the title, not realizing it was about one of my favorite medium concepts and I SCREECHED when you started the intro talking about the magicians wkhstsysys 😭
never apologize for the length of this video -- my brain has gained several good wrinkles and i got so much knitting done
Lev Grossman's most recent book The Bright Sword is one of the best books of the year, a look at the lesser known Kights of the Round Table invokes deep history and has great prose. That said I've never read The Magicians and probably never will but I highly recommend The Bright Sword.
excellent video. I really loved the Bit atbthe end, especially the taggifcation/tropification stuff, which i have also pushed back against in discussions with friends. As a small addition to this i think some peoplen dont known that the Library of congress catalogue works in a very similar way; in american printings of books on the copywrite page there is a list of how the book is catalogued listed there, or a link to the books web page in the catalogue. It's not dissimilar to the way social media uses it as a marketing thing.
Also you talking about how people can have varring and unique recommendations for what is and isnt dark academia reminded me of the time i saw someone call GIDEON THE NINTH dark academia, which is just...
I could maybe see Harrow the Ninth being called that but GtN as a standalone is wayyyy to into my beautiful Gideon's silly jock brain to be Dark Academia. Its CLEARLY a gothic Taskmaster novelisation
As a HUGE fan of the TV show and a light fan of the book I am excited to see something like this made
Took me too long to finish but this was amazing talking points and will lead me to read the books again 🖤
God a perfect fit for my 5hr flight
My ideal magical discipline would be making secret rooms and doors that go to multiple places and stuff, but fixing small objects would be a really nice second choice.
Meanwhile, once a time I asked my sisters what kind of magic they would want to teach at Hogwarts, and one of them answered, “Well it might only be taught at the very introductory level, but I would want to teach magical shoving.”
You definitely earned a subscription with this one. Absolutely amazing content, fantastic writing, production.
I love both the show and the books, even the musical scenes and I _hate_ musicals.
Thank you so much for all the work and effort you put into this. It's truly magical, sending link to my discord servers💜💜💜💜
Thank you for this video and all the hard work/time that goes into it. Gonna check out the bonus vid on nebula now!
Fantasy novels have come a long way since Pac-Man
Happy to see you back! And looking forward to watching this! Welcome support during exams week
Omg I just subscribed to you after coming across the Riley Sager video and you posted so soon! Blessed!!
oh my god, 4 hours about the magicians, am i dreaming
Same
I thought I was done watching new Harry Potter retrospectives but holy shit new 4 hour Laura Crone video!!
I’m so grateful for your one video a year. I have watched the pink aisle crime one 14 times cover to cover and used it as a Christmas gift guide for half my family.
I'm packing to move tomorrow, and get out of a very toxic home... So this is perfect timing. Because this is exactly what I need to distract me.
I can confirm, the super long form video essays on childhood media are 100% the best background sound for moving house while processing painful social stuff.
Good luck btw, hopefully things are just better from here 🩵
@@lilpetz500 I know absolutely nothing about The Magicians... But I'm happy to learn.
Best of luck friend❤❤ Hope all goes perfectly
this conclusion is fire.
it's funny how you say that the characters were made likeable in the show when i personally found them to be very annoying lmao. about margo and eliot: i don't know if i was questioning things when i first watched the show but i thought it was so nice that there were two people who were the closest to each other and were always together and showed afffection physically who weren't romantically involved. it's kinda weird to find out that wasn't the case in the books. i never saw them in that light and it honestly feels like when you see people ship characters that you percieve as siblings. they might not be related even a little bit but you still make a face when you see even a mention of them. and i saw her jealousy as the kind that i had when my friend chose someone else to hang out with over me. it sucks when you only have one person in your life but their life is bigger and more social and you get scared you have no space in it anymore. now i wonder if it simply didn't register to me like many other romantic things in fiction go over my head and then make me angry. more confusion to come, i guess. anyway, this was a great video, i've been looking for something like this on this show for so long, thank you for all your hard work!!
I really like this one! I'm a new viewer so I didn't know what to expect coming in but I thought this was a really tastefully done and interesting analysis of a series I had previously dismissed. I think the only episode of show was before an episode of the expanse and it was mostly just vaguely handsome looking guys running around the woods so I cataloged it in the back of my mind as a thing I would never experience. Definitely going to pick up the books when I decided to go back into sci-fi after my break from it!
But I'll admit I do feel a tiny bit clickbaited? You opening was incredibly well done and I thought we were going to get a 4 hour analysis on the way we classify media, comparison to others, and how we make books stand out in a world that's becoming increasingly shrunk in influence but more accessible than ever. So the fact that it was mostly about one particular book series and a compare and contrast between book and TV show is a bit jarring, but I still enjoyed it.
Just finished watching this on Nevbla, and what an incredible ride it was! Im def gonna have to rewatch when I have time to watch four and a half hours basically uninterrupted, but the way everything ties together is so wonderful and its really fun to watch you untangle this thing that clearly has so much significance to you in a surprisingly accessible way. awesome video!
Loving the analysis to far. As a fan of Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell, learning magic is a big part of the books, so I think that's what they were using add the connection in the pitch.
A four hour video to get me through a third of my shift? Yes please!
12 hour shifts are _brutal_ and I don't know how I survived that portion of my life, so I wish you well out there!
I actually read Jonathan Strange and Mr Norrell whilst still in High School, while Harry Potter and Twilight was around. It's still one of my favourite books. I also loved the Magicians trilogy but never saw the show.
Love when the yoyrube algorithm serves me 4 and a half hour video essays about random stuff i'm somewhat interested in, might take some days to watch this
Thank you for this video, I've wanted a video essay about The Magicians (I've only watched the show but I'm excited to get into the books now) for such a long time because boy HOWDY it's got so much to pull apart. It's simultaneously somehow dark fantasy with seriously horrifying plotlines and serious gore, heartfelt character moments and complex interpersonal drama, and goofy comedy with completely unnecessary musical numbers. It pulls off some great plotlines and can be so intriguing and so much fun, but it also has some of the toughest content I've ever come across (I cannot watch the scene with the summoning of our lady of the underground) and it regularly trips over its own dick because of how convoluted its plotlines get and how it tries to resolve them. I've wanted to know how other people have experienced it and I'm so excited to get into a video essay breaking down so much of it, at an hour in there's so much I'm glad you've touched on already. Thanks for putting a year of effort into this, your work is absolutely shining through and I'm looking forward to watching the rest as soon as possible!
I had no idea this video was about The Magicians when I clicked on it. The serendipity of it all. I am a massive fan of the books and your take is spot frickin on. The show's a silly goofy fun time too but maaan, them books....
I vividly remember watching a trailer to this show (or I think this show) that would play all the time that would flash the words "Magic is a drug. Get hooked."
if i had a nickel for every time Harvey Guillén played a guy who's down bad for his magical mentor figure...
I hate comp titles, like game of thrones means epic, like hunger games means some form of competition, like ACOTAR means romantasy and so much more, they just use a popular book to describe a genre when they are nothing alike
I saw the runtime and I very excitably grabbed my steam deck to play Balatro whilst listening. I already know this is going to have so many good ideas!
That gives me an idea for a "fun run" where I only pick "magical" Jokers. Or maybe focus on the Tarot Cards more heavily. Or something! Balatro is great for theorycrafting and fun runs!
Clip from the Ghovie in the first six minutes, you have earned a like
the show left me traumatized so im excited to find out if the books would do the same
The books are quite different from the show. I enjoyed the show WAY more
New Laura Crone video let's goooooo!
Holy crow, I'm so excited to watch a new Lauren video!!
I love this show, I love your videos and I am so happy to have almost 5 hours mixing the two!
Just play Mage the Ascension instead for your funny schizo wizard fantasies
Thank you! This hit right when I needed it! Now I just need to get myself situated for the next few hours!
I have never heard of this book or the TV show and I can’t to figure out why. I’m a Millennial, I read Harry Potter and other fantasy series and I was nearly the same age as the characters when the books were being released.
2:29:30 I seem to remember an era of media where no one mentioned pop culture stuff around them, but if you talk to kids and university students a huge amount of their conversation is about the media they consume. In that era, they just made up a show to "reference". I wonder if everyone was afraid to get sued if you had a kid mention Gumby in your show or something.
3:46:40 Protector of the Small (books about becoming a knight as a girl) vs The Song of the Lioness (a girl becoming a knight… in books)
"There is cause and effect, but there are no reasons" made me cry. Good tears
You're *very* good at this ❤
Thank you dearly Laura- the second I saw this yesterday I knew what I’d have going in one ear while I sell gifts at a holiday mart in a busy ass city. Even though I only know this series as “the one that they kept putting musical junk in.” via my mom.
oooooouh we're eating good tonight!!!!
OMG HI WELCOME BACK FOUR HOURS YAAAAASSSS