I just wish…that grown men would stop saying ‘bro’, ‘bruh’ and dude. Most of us don’t live in the ‘hood and talk like teenage street thugs. Grow the **** up and talk like a man and behave accordingly. Other than that peeve…..this has to be on my favorite channels.
bro, brah, bruh, dude like like chill talk about "Growing up" no better sign of a "MAN" than letting others be where they need to be in their journey, But then what do I know I am an angry old man that does not gara.
When we first started shooting Flintlocks we didn't know any better than to use pyrodex. It was funny because I remember specifically looking at Caleb trying to shoot a Brown Bess with pyrodex in the pan and laughing about the campfire that burnt in the pan for what seemed like 3 hours before the main charge was ignited
@@Everythingblackpowder i just thought of a idea that might be fun. Long distance shooting competitions while using substitutes. It would make it extremely hard to hit targets with the incredibly long lock time
Back in the 70’s when I made my TC Hawken, Pyrodex was supposed to be the latest greatest powder, even in that cap lock, it was prone to hangfires, lost a few deer, snap, fizzzzzzz, pow by then that deer was in the next zip code. Lol, I hung that up for many years/decades until recently, found me some real BP, used it, couldn’t remember why I stopped. Bought a few of the inexpensive kits, they are a blast to shoot, and easier to clean than I recall too. Saving my nickels for a Kibler. No, your videos don’t suck, honest, straight forward, yes. Thanks
Mate, the reason I enjoy watching your clips is because of your brutal honesty - are you sure you're not an Aussie in disguise? :) lol... fine work, appreciated!
Amen and Halleluiah! Since my kids pitched in and bought me a pound of 777 and a pound of Pyrodex I have to use them. A compound load works like a champ! 10 grains followed by 60 grains of the fake crap will fire every time! When they are not here I fire the real stuff! I can't get my home made powder to stay together well, but I'm working on it!
Yup. You are completely correct here. I suppose one way to get this shit to reliably ignite in a flintlock would be to shove a piece of firework fuse in the touch hole before loading and setting it off with a lighter....
I've seen a guy build his own musket, but he was too lazy to build a lock, so he took a kitchen lighter with a bendy shaft and hoseclamped that to the gun.
As a heavy hitter in the black powder industry told me at the state championship last weekend... black powder is black powder. There will never be a substitute that works as well. It is what it is.
One of the design criteria for substitutes is that they must be shippable in the same category as smokeless reloading powder (which black powder itself would not be if not for a Federal exemption, because of its sensitivity). But it's the very sensitivity of black powder (ease of ignition, primarily) that makes flintlocks work: a single tiny ember through the vent and your main charge is ignited, and it passes fire through the charge fast enough to build pressure and fire the ball with almost imperceptible lag (if you've done everything right). All the substitutes I've seen are intended for percussion cap or modern primer ignition -- the "209" in a couple of their names (as I'm sure you know) refers to a 209 shotgun primer, but there are a number of aftermarket methods to replace a percussion cap nipple with a unit that holds a small or large pistol primer -- all of which produces hotter ignition with more burning metal sparks than any flint priming charge. Even a period-correct percussion cap loaded with potassium chlorate, sulfur, and a little ground glass for friction gives a hotter, higher pressure ignition than a flint's pan charge. This is the biggest part of why substitutes work well in caplocks and cartridges, but not in flintlocks. Further, the burn rate vs. pressure curve of substitutes matches that of smokeless much more closely than that of black -- meaning that even if you get ignition from the prime there will be more lag before the burning main charge can build up enough pressure to accelerate its own combustion (meaning a longer hang). If your substitute won't flash like black, it won't burn like black in a flinter. And if it will, you probably can't get the exemption to be able to ship it, which means no one who doesn't make it themselves will be able to use it. I therefore concur with you, that there will never be a substitute that works well in flintlocks without an ignition booster of black. Sadly, many who'd like to shoot flintlocks can't, for one reason or another (living in a city or town, or renting your home being a prime example) make black powder in useful quantities at home, and/or lack the equipment to press cakes, so will never produce powder comparable to commercially made black. What really steams me in all this is that the sporting goods stores that increasingly *only* carry muzzle loading supplies, not anything to reload metallic cases or any modern firearm (though they do still have some loaded ammunition), don't find it profitable to have the magazine storage required to sell black. I'm allowed to store (legally) UP TO 50 POUNDS under my bed if I choose (though I'd probably keep it somewhere easier to access), but a sporting goods store has to keep even a single pound in an approved magazine (which probably can't be in the store due to BATFE magazine requirements) -- as well as maintaining inventory records that rival those for FFL dealers of handguns.
👍 When I started in Muzzleloading it was with percussion firearms and liked everything about the substitutes. When I took an interest in flintlocks (now my only muzzleloaders) I was told upfront that real Blackpowder was a must use. I’m afraid that I just accepted that. Your video demonstrates that I got pretty good advice. Hopefully the Blackpowder supply will not dry up and will remain affordable.
all the subs are a little harder to ignite. The best solution to your problem is to simply use real Gunpowder as DuPont called it and they should know. They started making it in 1802. Subs are fine in cap guns and cartridge guns but just are not suitable in flint locks. Stop trying to enter a model T roadster in the Indy 500 because it is not going to work. .
This is why we need MOAR VIDEOS OF HO-MADE BLACK POWDER! (I know, I know, "go make your own damn video"), but really I want to see more of that treadmill machine and if you've thought more about polishing in a larger diameter drum. If the substitutes won't work acceptably in a Kibler SMR, they won't work in any flintlock. The only use I can see for 777 in a flinter is to prank your friends.
As far as I'm concerned,this is The BEST BP channel out there. One thing for sure though,it ain't for the faint of heart, snowflakes,sissy la la's, or the like. This man pulls no punches,snd tells it like it is.!💥💥💥💥👍👍👍👍👍
When I first got into black powder firearms, I was convinced all flintlocks had serious hangfire as I was using the same Pyrodex as I was for my cap and ball revolvers. When my wife gave me a Petersoli Harper's Ferry flintlock for Christmas, I believed at the time to have confirmed that. Wow did my world change when I was convinced to give Goex a go.
@@Everythingblackpowder and also another question, I just got a traditions Kentucky rifle 33" barrel 1:66 twist, can I shoot 00 buck out of that like a shot gun? Or is that like a smooth bore only type thing
Something I've noticed over the last couple of years, I've used Triple 7 for a long time in my percussion guns (probably 10 years or so) but in the last year or so, I tried using Goex just to see how it did and something I've noticed, and I don't know why, but the Goex and lately the Triple 7 are about the same to clean except for the smell of the real black powder. Other than that, for me it hasn't been any easier to clean my guns and that seems to be something recent, and that's with Triple 7 I've gotten from two different places. I quit using Pyrodex for my percussion guns because that seemed pretty raunchy and dirty. It's getting to the point now where I will be ordering a ball mill and probably making my own. I've got enough on hand for a while, but it doesn't seem to be getting much better when it comes to the supply and reliability of getting the real stuff.
Love to see the Kibler shoot…even if it does take a minute to fire. Yes sir! I agree bout making your own black powder. It not only helps with the cost, but to me its all part of the fun in the whole scheme of things. And, for the point of the video, and for a positive note, it does make a good “no flinch” practice!
I was grinding up the 777 cakes because it was all i could get. But i can confirm those long hang times were the price you paid. An over sized flash hole helped but i would have given anything for real BP. cant beat it
Jake can you go into a little more detail on making your own BP. I'm talking where to get the puck tool and the different sizes of strainer for the different f's -1f/2f/3f/4f. I will apologize in advance if you have already answered that question. I have searched to no avail. Thanks and I do like your videos.
Of all the subs, 777 is my favorite for cap guns. But I didnt even bother trying it in my flinters. And flinters are all I own anymore. I included the last of my 777 in the sale when I sold my last cap gun.
Yah my first flintlock I didn't know not to use substitutes, and after a long time I finally got it to go off it sounded like a jet engine starting up by my face, went it went off my arms where fully extended lol. And it turned one of my friends off of flintlocks to this day. This happened like 35 years ago.
I think it would take as long as using a visco fuse lighting it with a match, rising your rifle, aim to your tatget and waiting 'till it goes off...lol
How about a video ( or series) on testing corrosion and or myths of some "substitutes" being " non or low " corrosive, and black powder damaging your gun if you use it , ect. Clean up ect. ?????
Substitutes are as dirty and corrosive as BP so you need to clean the gun after shooting. I noticed Triple 7 is a little cleaner than Pyrodex, just like Swiss powder is cleaner than Go-Ex but you need to clean the gun the same every time if you care for your gun!
From what I've read, the Blackhorn 209 won't reliably fire with normal percussion caps, it needs the extra blast from the 209 primers. So with that said, I'd guess it would be even worse in a flintlock. If you feel like trying it, I'll watch the video, but I won't recommend that you try it. If it does go bang, the pressure may be very higher, higher than 777. I'm guessing the BH209 is a lot closer to the performance of smokeless, so use at an risk. And that said, thank you for showing me exactly why 777 is not for flint. Too bad they won't/can't make a substitute that will work with flint, something more stores are willing to carry.
Great Video, u answered my question of trying to use black powder as a priming charge to set off the main 777 charge, now I know not to waste my time. Thanks Man 🤙
Hello. Blackhorn 209 will not work with Flintlock. The composition of black powder substitute is similar to smokeless powder. For the operation of which the initial pressure is required = primer number 209.
really appreciate the editing out 90% of the cuss words. trust me i make my own d%$& videos and i know it sucks but its just a nice touch. either way see you next week when you mix pyrodex and swiss :)
Blackhorn 209 probably wouldn't even light in a flintlock. As the number in the name suggests, it's intended for modern in-line muzzleloaders with 209 (shotgun) primer ignition. I'm not even sure it'd go off in a caplock, but that's a better chance than a flintlock.
I use Triple 7 FFG in my Lyman Great Plains flintlock. I put 3 grains of Goex 4F down the barrel first and prime the pan with it as well. It always ignites all the time with no hang fires.
I’ve had that argument numerous times. Real black powder is what you need for a flintlock. Substitutes just don’t work well. Thank you for spreading the word my dude
I get when people can't source the real stuff too easily, but even if you need to rely on substitutes, it's so easy to make your own blackpowder that people should just mix a small batch of it and use as dedicated priming powder for their substitutes.
@@timesthree5757 It's charcoal, sulfur, and potassium nitrate (ergo salpeter or stump remover). You just powder the charchoal (any charcoal) and blend it with the other two, you can even skip the sulfur if you don't mind a significant loss in power. The ingredients are commonly available all around the world.
That is the same experience I had trying to use 777. One slow ignition, a bunch of flash in the pans, maybe one more slow ignition. The flashpoint for substitutes is too high to be useful in a flintlock.
Just a simple comment on BP availability, here in France we can buy BP without any restriction, and hoard a few kilograms by law (very ancient law, dating back to the Revolution) but making it yourself is illegal because of safety (and tax) reasons and can get you in quite a trouble. So we're kind of stuck with buying 100 bucks a kilo of BP or being discrete if you're making it
That was always the problem I had with T7. The fouling likes to form sheets and clog flash holes, even in percussion guns. In my caplock, I had to use a vent pick to clean out the flash channel after every shot. Otherwise, I'd get about 60% FTF.
My experience is about the same. But, it also applies to cap locks that have a 90 degree flash channel, such as my GPR and Tenn Mt Rifle. Hangfires all day long. Subs work great in CnB revolvers, as they are essentially in-lines. I have no idea why the short, direct flash vent in a flinter would reject Subs, but they do.... ~ makin' smelly white smoke since the Bi-Centennial
Jake, the problem is real Black Powder shortage, it's not that we prefer substitutes! And in percussion guns, cartridge guns or revolvers Triple7 really works! Now in my 50 Cal Investarm '' Hawken'' flintlock replica I need to prime the pan with real black and on top of that I also use 10 grains of real black and 50 grains of triple 7 as a main charge if I don't want to have a hangfire and it works. I know you're gonna say it's too much of a trouble but for me it's worth it because a pound of real black lasts me way longer and I don't have hangfires! For the Triple 7 I can buy it at my local shop anytime I want, for the real black I need to order it online and with shipping and all it costs me more than double! So yes, it takes a little longer to load the gun, I need to remember to poor 10 grains of real powder down the barrel first but It works pretty well and the price is right! I know you make your own real powder, I'm too scared to do it, it's an explosive after all and if you don't know what you're doing( which is my case) it might be dangerous!
@@Everythingblackpowder Yes,Sorry about the delay, I'm thinking about it, it's just too scary, I'm not a chemist and black powder is an explosive so you need to know what you do. The first Icelander guy who discovered black powder ( independently from the chinese discovery and almost at the same period) was nicknamed Eric Four Fingers for a reason and the reason is that he lost a finger in the process. Besides, I don't know, I live in a city, my backyard is very small, my neighbours can see almost everything what I do in my backyard, once my neighbour told me I was not supposed to melt lead because that was toxic so now I cast my bullets when my neighbour is on vacation because I don't want to escalate the situation. I also live in a very liberal-woke neighbourhood so that doesn't help.
Jake I had to drill the flash hole out on my percussion Kentucky Pistol to get Pyrodex to shoot reliably. Buying real Black Powder was the best and worst thing that ever happened to my muzzleloading.
When making powder..watch were you source your ingredients. I used eBay, and eBay told the feds..so I had a nice little meeting with two agents one day...in the parking lot of my wife’s job. She got talked to also. They also cased my home.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine that is incorrect. You have to really look into your local laws regarding manufacture of powder, and transportation of said powder..like bringing homemade powder to a range. The ingredients I purchased are not illegal, but since I had made some in a certain quantity..Ebay felt it was their job to inform the feds. I am simply saying buy your ingredients at a hardware or big box store and avoid having meetings you probably do not want.
Video didn't suck, sir. Agree that subs are best relegated to caplock actions, and I'll even go further and suggest they are at their best in systems with a minimum of "turns" in the flash channel. Cap & ball seems to work fine, but I've seen slow ignition times with some subs in sidelocks with bolsters. Since I prefer the uniformity of real BP, and find it easier to clean than most subs, I much prefer it.
I tried 777 in my percussion Hawkins, I hated it. I had several hang fires and some times it just smoked and didn't go off. I mail order really Black Powder or make my own. I agree with you, my flintlocks have never had any substitutes in them. I hate having to pay the hazmat fee so I get the max I can 25 lb. I also make my own.
I never had that problem with my percussion guns! Are you sure your caps are good quality? I noticed sometimes I have hangfires with CCI caps, I don't know why. It never happens with Remingtons or RWS. I'm pretty lucky, my local shop keeps RWS in stock and they also ordered for me a batch of Remingtons so I don't really have to use CCI's!
DUDE!! Resect! the DELAY! and you still nailed it! I'm 100% BP. But hay? If you like Bud Light? "IT'S OK!" But for me, No! "I'm NOT!" Going to Swallow!
My flintlocks only eat black powder. I tried the substitutes and had to add 5 grains of real black powder to start the boom. Pain in the butt. I still have two pounds of Dupont in FFF but the after shot residue makes an inky wet mess, and when hunting in damp rain it inks up quickly before a shot and I have to change the pan powder very often or get misfires which sucks when it happens when your sights are on a nice white tail deer. I even tried the powder you mix in with the pan powder that is supposed to keep the powder dry. Fail!!!!
Heretical question. Are there any smokeless powders that can be used? Before you explode. There is load data for all the metallic cartridges that matches the pressures of black powder. Are there any powders out there that can tolerate being compressed and will not spike above the pressures of black powder? If it needs the larger volume to avoid spiking above the pressure that the gun can sustain, has any one ever built a barrel or revolver cylinder with a step so the ball would seat consistently to a fixed depth to give a constant "case space"? If that space were smaller then your normal BP volume then you could use it with BP as well.
yep subs were designed for cap priming period! although merely for speculation on it i wonder what a larger vent hole would help with that if you have no other choice? by the way do you load shotgun shells? i was punching over shot cards the other day and got the thought of using 4 or 5 corrugated cardboard disks in place of cushion wads (it's a crapshoot on getting those here!!) and i was wondering if you ever tried it before and if not do you think it would work descent?
I found that Pyrodex in my CVA Hawken (percussion) is pretty hit or miss on ignition. I’ve got about 2 pounds of Goex left, and can’t seem to find more in my area. Reading up on the other substitutes, none of the makers of the substitutes recommend their products for sidelocks at all. If the makers of the product don’t believe it will work in a sidelock, I’m not going to try to prove them wrong.
In my opinion, yes. Simply because I can make powder that is comparable to Goex and Schuetzen so if o have to buy it I might as well buy the best stuff I can get
I really wish i could even find any REAL pack powder right now. It seems like it's out of stock EVERYWHERE... but if you have and 3f goex you wanna sell I'll gladly buy it from you.
For some damn reason I could not get my ford F-150 spare tire to fit on my dodge truck. Try as I might, it just would not go on. I don't understand. Both trucks use round tires. They are for the most part made of rubber. I was told by OTHERS that they will fit. What am I doing wrong. Do stupid things, win stupid prizes, I guess.
I am interested in flintlocks mainly from a survival point of view if for some reason I have to use a muzzle loader. It looks like smokeless powder beside one issue of safety just will not reliably go off in a flintlock. Anyone ever try a match lock with the black powder substitutes? I am thinking of hunting small game at close ranges with shot charges.
Not personally but even commercial black powder in match locks can be finicky. The 11 bang bang Channel went through this and they determined that the commercial black powder is glazed to well that the match has trouble igniting it. If you make your own powder and don’t glaze it it works great.
@@Everythingblackpowder in the beginning of the video he looked offended about people saying he's using triple 7 and then he looked concerned about putting triple 7 through his flintlock, it was funny lol
I have to concur, And I am a pyrodex snob, of course no flintlocks I shoot percussions and 209 primers but yes 100% blackpowder for flintlocks I have heard the same from others as well I use pyrodex in a flintlock with no issues, When asked to show me the day is at hand and all kinds of issues that "Never Happened before". I have even heard of 5% black first the remaining pyrodex charge, issue is pyrodex still gums up flash hole. So yes if one is shooting flintlocks, Blackpowder all the way. Well I do not dislike flintlocks I dislike the unavailability of blackpowder in my area, and YES I could always make my own, I prefer not having that headache, I got enough with work, kids and house hold chores, reloading, making my own wads , casting my own bullets I would prefer sometime for actually shooting.
I just wish…that grown men would stop saying ‘bro’, ‘bruh’ and dude. Most of us don’t live in the ‘hood and talk like teenage street thugs. Grow the **** up and talk like a man and behave accordingly. Other than that peeve…..this has to be on my favorite channels.
lol get bent “brō” I get plenty of ridiculous comments but this one has to be in the top 10. Street thugs??? Sweet weeping Jesus…
what the hell are you yappin about lil man ?
Dude has been around since the 1700's
bro, brah, bruh, dude like like chill talk about "Growing up" no better sign of a "MAN" than letting others be where they need to be in their journey, But then what do I know I am an angry old man that does not gara.
Calm down bro.
When we first started shooting Flintlocks we didn't know any better than to use pyrodex. It was funny because I remember specifically looking at Caleb trying to shoot a Brown Bess with pyrodex in the pan and laughing about the campfire that burnt in the pan for what seemed like 3 hours before the main charge was ignited
The Legend of Jake ...Jake the destroyer of targets, king of triple 7, protector of the holy black powder.......long live jake
The Sultan of sulfur.
The Chancellor of charcoal.
The Knight of nitrates.
The Friar of fouling.
THE BARON OF BLACK POWDER!
@@Everythingblackpowder i love it 😂😂🤠
No flinch Jake. You made the 777 in the pan look good. It flared up so long the main charge had no choice but to light off.
@@Everythingblackpowder i just thought of a idea that might be fun. Long distance shooting competitions while using substitutes. It would make it extremely hard to hit targets with the incredibly long lock time
Back in the 70’s when I made my TC Hawken, Pyrodex was supposed to be the latest greatest powder, even in that cap lock, it was prone to hangfires, lost a few deer, snap, fizzzzzzz, pow by then that deer was in the next zip code. Lol, I hung that up for many years/decades until recently, found me some real BP, used it, couldn’t remember why I stopped. Bought a few of the inexpensive kits, they are a blast to shoot, and easier to clean than I recall too. Saving my nickels for a Kibler. No, your videos don’t suck, honest, straight forward, yes. Thanks
Loose 777 works great in inline MLs, but builds up a nasty crud ring ahead of the breach.
Mate, the reason I enjoy watching your clips is because of your brutal honesty - are you sure you're not an Aussie in disguise? :) lol... fine work, appreciated!
Thank you
I have found I have to prime my paper cartridges with 5 g of 3f when I'm using Pyrodex otherwise I have slight hang fires occasionally.
Amen and Halleluiah! Since my kids pitched in and bought me a pound of 777 and a pound of Pyrodex I have to use them. A compound load works like a champ! 10 grains followed by 60 grains of the fake crap will fire every time! When they are not here I fire the real stuff! I can't get my home made powder to stay together well, but I'm working on it!
This recipy works great for me also!
Yup. You are completely correct here. I suppose one way to get this shit to reliably ignite in a flintlock would be to shove a piece of firework fuse in the touch hole before loading and setting it off with a lighter....
I've seen a guy build his own musket, but he was too lazy to build a lock, so he took a kitchen lighter with a bendy shaft and hoseclamped that to the gun.
As a heavy hitter in the black powder industry told me at the state championship last weekend... black powder is black powder. There will never be a substitute that works as well. It is what it is.
One of the design criteria for substitutes is that they must be shippable in the same category as smokeless reloading powder (which black powder itself would not be if not for a Federal exemption, because of its sensitivity). But it's the very sensitivity of black powder (ease of ignition, primarily) that makes flintlocks work: a single tiny ember through the vent and your main charge is ignited, and it passes fire through the charge fast enough to build pressure and fire the ball with almost imperceptible lag (if you've done everything right).
All the substitutes I've seen are intended for percussion cap or modern primer ignition -- the "209" in a couple of their names (as I'm sure you know) refers to a 209 shotgun primer, but there are a number of aftermarket methods to replace a percussion cap nipple with a unit that holds a small or large pistol primer -- all of which produces hotter ignition with more burning metal sparks than any flint priming charge. Even a period-correct percussion cap loaded with potassium chlorate, sulfur, and a little ground glass for friction gives a hotter, higher pressure ignition than a flint's pan charge. This is the biggest part of why substitutes work well in caplocks and cartridges, but not in flintlocks.
Further, the burn rate vs. pressure curve of substitutes matches that of smokeless much more closely than that of black -- meaning that even if you get ignition from the prime there will be more lag before the burning main charge can build up enough pressure to accelerate its own combustion (meaning a longer hang). If your substitute won't flash like black, it won't burn like black in a flinter. And if it will, you probably can't get the exemption to be able to ship it, which means no one who doesn't make it themselves will be able to use it.
I therefore concur with you, that there will never be a substitute that works well in flintlocks without an ignition booster of black. Sadly, many who'd like to shoot flintlocks can't, for one reason or another (living in a city or town, or renting your home being a prime example) make black powder in useful quantities at home, and/or lack the equipment to press cakes, so will never produce powder comparable to commercially made black.
What really steams me in all this is that the sporting goods stores that increasingly *only* carry muzzle loading supplies, not anything to reload metallic cases or any modern firearm (though they do still have some loaded ammunition), don't find it profitable to have the magazine storage required to sell black. I'm allowed to store (legally) UP TO 50 POUNDS under my bed if I choose (though I'd probably keep it somewhere easier to access), but a sporting goods store has to keep even a single pound in an approved magazine (which probably can't be in the store due to BATFE magazine requirements) -- as well as maintaining inventory records that rival those for FFL dealers of handguns.
👍 When I started in Muzzleloading it was with percussion firearms and liked everything about the substitutes. When I took an interest in flintlocks (now my only muzzleloaders) I was told upfront that real Blackpowder was a must use. I’m afraid that I just accepted that. Your video demonstrates that I got pretty good advice. Hopefully the Blackpowder supply will not dry up and will remain affordable.
If you sold hoodie pullovers with an image of a flintlock & the phrase “DON’T FUCKING FLINCH!” I’d buy them 😏
That'd be a cool shirt. Would it be a flintlock rifle or a pistol?
I’ll keep that in mind
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine I suggest just the flintlock mechanism itself.
My percussion Sharps doesn't care for Triple 7 either. Lots of hang-fires. But it works great in revolvers. Time to start making my own powder.
all the subs are a little harder to ignite. The best solution to your problem is to simply use real Gunpowder as DuPont called it and they should know. They started making it in 1802.
Subs are fine in cap guns and cartridge guns but just are not suitable in flint locks.
Stop trying to enter a model T roadster in the Indy 500 because it is not going to work.
.
This is why we need MOAR VIDEOS OF HO-MADE BLACK POWDER! (I know, I know, "go make your own damn video"), but really I want to see more of that treadmill machine and if you've thought more about polishing in a larger diameter drum.
If the substitutes won't work acceptably in a Kibler SMR, they won't work in any flintlock. The only use I can see for 777 in a flinter is to prank your friends.
Will do
As far as I'm concerned,this is The BEST BP channel out there.
One thing for sure though,it ain't for the faint of heart, snowflakes,sissy la la's, or the like.
This man pulls no punches,snd tells it like it is.!💥💥💥💥👍👍👍👍👍
When I first got into black powder firearms, I was convinced all flintlocks had serious hangfire as I was using the same Pyrodex as I was for my cap and ball revolvers. When my wife gave me a Petersoli Harper's Ferry flintlock for Christmas, I believed at the time to have confirmed that. Wow did my world change when I was convinced to give Goex a go.
I have been having to make my own black powder.
I'm glad to have found your channel because I just bought my first flintlock. I look forward to learning a lot from you
Glad to hear it
@@Everythingblackpowder where do you order powder from? I just ordered from graf's since it's the cheapest I found and it was about 23 p lb
@@Everythingblackpowder and also another question, I just got a traditions Kentucky rifle 33" barrel 1:66 twist, can I shoot 00 buck out of that like a shot gun? Or is that like a smooth bore only type thing
@@Jb-qn2xz I’ve heard of people doing it but it pattern’s really bad
Good video black powder in the pan is certain for instant ignition
I dont need to tell you but you are absolutely correct. Its hard to get real black powder in my area but you need it for flinters.
Something I've noticed over the last couple of years, I've used Triple 7 for a long time in my percussion guns (probably 10 years or so) but in the last year or so, I tried using Goex just to see how it did and something I've noticed, and I don't know why, but the Goex and lately the Triple 7 are about the same to clean except for the smell of the real black powder. Other than that, for me it hasn't been any easier to clean my guns and that seems to be something recent, and that's with Triple 7 I've gotten from two different places. I quit using Pyrodex for my percussion guns because that seemed pretty raunchy and dirty. It's getting to the point now where I will be ordering a ball mill and probably making my own. I've got enough on hand for a while, but it doesn't seem to be getting much better when it comes to the supply and reliability of getting the real stuff.
Love to see the Kibler shoot…even if it does take a minute to fire. Yes sir! I agree bout making your own black powder. It not only helps with the cost, but to me its all part of the fun in the whole scheme of things. And, for the point of the video, and for a positive note, it does make a good “no flinch” practice!
Good info, I never would have known about the flintlock issues!
I was grinding up the 777 cakes because it was all i could get. But i can confirm those long hang times were the price you paid. An over sized flash hole helped but i would have given anything for real BP. cant beat it
Totally agree with that! Specially for hunting. By the time it shoots (if youre lucky enough) your target isn't gonna be there...
As usual, it didn't suck, so I don't have to make my own damn video.😆👍
Jake can you go into a little more detail on making your own BP. I'm talking where to get the puck tool and the different sizes of strainer for the different f's -1f/2f/3f/4f. I will apologize in advance if you have already answered that question. I have searched to no avail. Thanks and I do like your videos.
GREAT content, Jake. I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the video!
Thank you
There’s nothing like real BP!
Amen to that
Of all the subs, 777 is my favorite for cap guns. But I didnt even bother trying it in my flinters. And flinters are all I own anymore. I included the last of my 777 in the sale when I sold my last cap gun.
Best channel on UA-cam, but now you have me thinking I need to build a Kibler Southern Mountain Rifle.
You do need to build one
thank you Jake for the very good video .
Thank you
Yah my first flintlock I didn't know not to use substitutes, and after a long time I finally got it to go off it sounded like a jet engine starting up by my face, went it went off my arms where fully extended lol. And it turned one of my friends off of flintlocks to this day. This happened like 35 years ago.
Making your own BP is bad ass. I’m gonna try it one of these days.
The delay is so long itgives you time to recover after the impact of the lock and to aim again.
Or have a drink to steady your nerves before it fires! 🤣
I wonder how long the delay would be with a matchlock gun?
I think it would take as long as using a visco fuse lighting it with a match, rising your rifle, aim to your tatget and waiting 'till it goes off...lol
How about a video ( or series) on testing corrosion and or myths of some "substitutes" being " non or low " corrosive, and black powder damaging your gun if you use it , ect. Clean up ect. ?????
Substitutes are as dirty and corrosive as BP so you need to clean the gun after shooting. I noticed Triple 7 is a little cleaner than Pyrodex, just like Swiss powder is cleaner than Go-Ex but you need to clean the gun the same every time if you care for your gun!
From what I've read, the Blackhorn 209 won't reliably fire with normal percussion caps, it needs the extra blast from the 209 primers. So with that said, I'd guess it would be even worse in a flintlock. If you feel like trying it, I'll watch the video, but I won't recommend that you try it. If it does go bang, the pressure may be very higher, higher than 777. I'm guessing the BH209 is a lot closer to the performance of smokeless, so use at an risk.
And that said, thank you for showing me exactly why 777 is not for flint. Too bad they won't/can't make a substitute that will work with flint, something more stores are willing to carry.
I support you. You are right one hundred percent.
Fake powder sucks! I found that out decades ago and prefer 4f regular black powder. I've got an old Tower Flintlock pistol that hates anything else.
I heard it at the watercooler this morning, Jake loves 777
😂 lies, slander!
Ya, but substitutes fit in with the non binary times, don't Ya Know!
some things there just ain't No Substitute fer!
Great Video, u answered my question of trying to use black powder as a priming charge to set off the main 777 charge, now I know not to waste my time. Thanks Man 🤙
Hello. Blackhorn 209 will not work with Flintlock. The composition of black powder substitute is similar to smokeless powder. For the operation of which the initial pressure is required = primer number 209.
really appreciate the editing out 90% of the cuss words. trust me i make my own d%$& videos and i know it sucks but its just a nice touch. either way see you next week when you mix pyrodex and swiss :)
I appreciate your tests, I know you don't want to, but a test of blackthorn 209 would be good, ya know, for science.
Blackhorn 209 probably wouldn't even light in a flintlock. As the number in the name suggests, it's intended for modern in-line muzzleloaders with 209 (shotgun) primer ignition. I'm not even sure it'd go off in a caplock, but that's a better chance than a flintlock.
I use Triple 7 FFG in my Lyman Great Plains flintlock. I put 3 grains of Goex 4F down the barrel first and prime the pan with it as well. It always ignites all the time with no hang fires.
I’ve had that argument numerous times. Real black powder is what you need for a flintlock. Substitutes just don’t work well. Thank you for spreading the word my dude
I get when people can't source the real stuff too easily, but even if you need to rely on substitutes, it's so easy to make your own blackpowder that people should just mix a small batch of it and use as dedicated priming powder for their substitutes.
The only problem is the anti gunners will see this on the internet and create refs which won’t allow regular citizens to purchase the ingredients.
It's not that easy
@@timesthree5757 It's charcoal, sulfur, and potassium nitrate (ergo salpeter or stump remover).
You just powder the charchoal (any charcoal) and blend it with the other two, you can even skip the sulfur if you don't mind a significant loss in power.
The ingredients are commonly available all around the world.
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine sure but my burnt down shed tells me it's more difficult than people say.
@@timesthree5757 It helps to not smoke while mixing.
Black powder is finally available at my local Trading Post. It’s about freaking time!
That is the same experience I had trying to use 777. One slow ignition, a bunch of flash in the pans, maybe one more slow ignition. The flashpoint for substitutes is too high to be useful in a flintlock.
Just a simple comment on BP availability, here in France we can buy BP without any restriction, and hoard a few kilograms by law (very ancient law, dating back to the Revolution) but making it yourself is illegal because of safety (and tax) reasons and can get you in quite a trouble. So we're kind of stuck with buying 100 bucks a kilo of BP or being discrete if you're making it
Also, can we pour one out for Jake's Kibler? He really punishes it with these tests 🤣
I know, it’s awful
Excellent shooting Jake
Thanks
That was always the problem I had with T7. The fouling likes to form sheets and clog flash holes, even in percussion guns. In my caplock, I had to use a vent pick to clean out the flash channel after every shot. Otherwise, I'd get about 60% FTF.
For cap and ball I use pyrodex. For my uncle's flintlock I use black powder.
I don't know if 209 powder would even ignite in a flintlock. I know a standard percussion cap won't do it.
My experience is about the same. But, it also applies to cap locks that have a 90 degree flash channel, such as my GPR and Tenn Mt Rifle. Hangfires all day long. Subs work great in CnB revolvers, as they are essentially in-lines.
I have no idea why the short, direct flash vent in a flinter would reject Subs, but they do....
~ makin' smelly white smoke since the Bi-Centennial
I have performed the same tests with the same results.
Triple Seven works well in my caplock rifles and revolver. Not in the flintlocks.
Jake, the problem is real Black Powder shortage, it's not that we prefer substitutes! And in percussion guns, cartridge guns or revolvers Triple7 really works! Now in my 50 Cal Investarm '' Hawken'' flintlock replica I need to prime the pan with real black and on top of that I also use 10 grains of real black and 50 grains of triple 7 as a main charge if I don't want to have a hangfire and it works. I know you're gonna say it's too much of a trouble but for me it's worth it because a pound of real black lasts me way longer and I don't have hangfires! For the Triple 7 I can buy it at my local shop anytime I want, for the real black I need to order it online and with shipping and all it costs me more than double! So yes, it takes a little longer to load the gun, I need to remember to poor 10 grains of real powder down the barrel first but It works pretty well and the price is right! I know you make your own real powder, I'm too scared to do it, it's an explosive after all and if you don't know what you're doing( which is my case) it might be dangerous!
You gotta do what you gotta do. Have you thought about making your own black powder?
@@Everythingblackpowder Yes,Sorry about the delay, I'm thinking about it, it's just too scary, I'm not a chemist and black powder is an explosive so you need to know what you do. The first Icelander guy who discovered black powder ( independently from the chinese discovery and almost at the same period) was nicknamed Eric Four Fingers for a reason and the reason is that he lost a finger in the process. Besides, I don't know, I live in a city, my backyard is very small, my neighbours can see almost everything what I do in my backyard, once my neighbour told me I was not supposed to melt lead because that was toxic so now I cast my bullets when my neighbour is on vacation because I don't want to escalate the situation. I also live in a very liberal-woke neighbourhood so that doesn't help.
Sorry to hear that. We’ve been making our own black powder for a few years now and we still have all our fingers and toes.
Jake I had to drill the flash hole out on my percussion Kentucky Pistol to get Pyrodex to shoot reliably. Buying real Black Powder was the best and worst thing that ever happened to my muzzleloading.
😂…..hssssss fooomph. 😂👍
Well , all I can say is , it does impart a sporting randomness to marksmanship .
More like a game of chance.
When making powder..watch were you source your ingredients. I used eBay, and eBay told the feds..so I had a nice little meeting with two agents one day...in the parking lot of my wife’s job. She got talked to also. They also cased my home.
It's perfectly legal to own and make blackpowder in the US though?
@@0neDoomedSpaceMarine that is incorrect. You have to really look into your local laws regarding manufacture of powder, and transportation of said powder..like bringing homemade powder to a range. The ingredients I purchased are not illegal, but since I had made some in a certain quantity..Ebay felt it was their job to inform the feds. I am simply saying buy your ingredients at a hardware or big box store and avoid having meetings you probably do not want.
My flinters seem slow even with real black powder
try moving the powder away from the hole and using less so it flashes more and acts like a fuse less?
@@RabbitusMaximus I've tried most everything, it takes shooting regularly for me to be more accurate,I guess to develop that follow through
this is a great style of video for you guys comical and fun
Video didn't suck, sir. Agree that subs are best relegated to caplock actions, and I'll even go further and suggest they are at their best in systems with a minimum of "turns" in the flash channel. Cap & ball seems to work fine, but I've seen slow ignition times with some subs in sidelocks with bolsters. Since I prefer the uniformity of real BP, and find it easier to clean than most subs, I much prefer it.
Good to see you man. Get a lot out of your channels 🇺🇸💪👍
I need to start making my own, nobody in my area sells the real stuff
I tried 777 in my percussion Hawkins, I hated it. I had several hang fires and some times it just smoked and didn't go off. I mail order really Black Powder or make my own.
I agree with you, my flintlocks have never had any substitutes in them. I hate having to pay the hazmat fee so I get the max I can 25 lb. I also make my own.
I never had that problem with my percussion guns! Are you sure your caps are good quality? I noticed sometimes I have hangfires with CCI caps, I don't know why. It never happens with Remingtons or RWS. I'm pretty lucky, my local shop keeps RWS in stock and they also ordered for me a batch of Remingtons so I don't really have to use CCI's!
@@elenas4878 I only can get Remington caps locally.. I just went back to only using the Holy Black.
DUDE!! Resect! the DELAY! and you still nailed it!
I'm 100% BP. But hay? If you like Bud Light? "IT'S OK!" But for me, No! "I'm NOT!" Going to Swallow!
Hallelujah ❤!!!!
Oddly, that would make a good training tool, similar to having someone load your mags unknown number of live and dummy rounds
Use a light primary charge and it might be good for working on a flinch.
Oh yeah, like how ProMag magazines are really good for practicing failure drills!
My flintlocks only eat black powder. I tried the substitutes and had to add 5 grains of real black powder to start the boom. Pain in the butt. I still have two pounds of Dupont in FFF but the after shot residue makes an inky wet mess, and when hunting in damp rain it inks up quickly before a shot and I have to change the pan powder very often or get misfires which sucks when it happens when your sights are on a nice white tail deer.
I even tried the powder you mix in with the pan powder that is supposed to keep the powder dry. Fail!!!!
I learned on a cva that liked to spit out nipples. I have HORRIBLE flinch.
Heretical question.
Are there any smokeless powders that can be used? Before you explode. There is load data for all the metallic cartridges that matches the pressures of black powder. Are there any powders out there that can tolerate being compressed and will not spike above the pressures of black powder? If it needs the larger volume to avoid spiking above the pressure that the gun can sustain, has any one ever built a barrel or revolver cylinder with a step so the ball would seat consistently to a fixed depth to give a constant "case space"? If that space were smaller then your normal BP volume then you could use it with BP as well.
I shot competition with rifle mluskets for years, and then did 30 years as a Confederate reenactor. I effing HATE Pyrodex.
yep subs were designed for cap priming period! although merely for speculation on it i wonder what a larger vent hole would help with that if you have no other choice? by the way do you load shotgun shells? i was punching over shot cards the other day and got the thought of using 4 or 5 corrugated cardboard disks in place of cushion wads (it's a crapshoot on getting those here!!) and i was wondering if you ever tried it before and if not do you think it would work descent?
I found that Pyrodex in my CVA Hawken (percussion) is pretty hit or miss on ignition. I’ve got about 2 pounds of Goex left, and can’t seem to find more in my area. Reading up on the other substitutes, none of the makers of the substitutes recommend their products for sidelocks at all. If the makers of the product don’t believe it will work in a sidelock, I’m not going to try to prove them wrong.
In my experience Triple 7 works, except for my Flintlock.
Thank-you, I like BP period
Great video again. I have a question about real black. Is swiss really worth the extra 10$ a pound over schuetzen powder?
In my opinion, yes. Simply because I can make powder that is comparable to Goex and Schuetzen so if o have to buy it I might as well buy the best stuff I can get
@Everything Black Powder ok understand that. I'm not quite ready to make it. Need to get pucking die a press and a grinder to make it like you do.
Swiss is the best powder I've ever had! Better than Goex or Scutzen! Never tried Graf and Sons or Shockeyes so I cannot compare with them.
I really wish i could even find any REAL pack powder right now. It seems like it's out of stock EVERYWHERE... but if you have and 3f goex you wanna sell I'll gladly buy it from you.
Anybody else notice the can of 4350 on the shelf? Which muzzleloader does he use that in?
😂 270 Winchester
Totally agree!
Jake, You oughta stop beating around the bush and say what you mean!😊😊
Shoot substitutes to learn how to hold steady 😅
I won't need to make my own dam video again!! Thanks for the help. Lets go Brandon.
Telling like it is i like your videos thank you
For some damn reason I could not get my ford F-150 spare tire to fit on my dodge truck. Try as I might, it just would not go on. I don't understand. Both trucks use round tires. They are for the most part made of rubber. I was told by OTHERS that they will fit. What am I doing wrong. Do stupid things, win stupid prizes, I guess.
I suppose
I am interested in flintlocks mainly from a survival point of view if for some reason I have to use a muzzle loader. It looks like smokeless powder beside one issue of safety just will not reliably go off in a flintlock.
Anyone ever try a match lock with the black powder substitutes? I am thinking of hunting small game at close ranges with shot charges.
Not personally but even commercial black powder in match locks can be finicky. The 11 bang bang Channel went through this and they determined that the commercial black powder is glazed to well that the match has trouble igniting it. If you make your own powder and don’t glaze it it works great.
matchlock performance in a flintlock rifle. lol
7:03 Except, that's a little bit illegal where I live. Soooo €€€€€€
I've never seen a man so offended and concerned at the same time.
Huh?
@@Everythingblackpowder in the beginning of the video he looked offended about people saying he's using triple 7 and then he looked concerned about putting triple 7 through his flintlock, it was funny lol
Better results then i get with subs... They never go off for me... Lol
The anti Black Powder law is stupid and pointless.
I have older BP (goex) in a can. The inside of the can has rusted. Is this BP still ok? I worry about rust particles in the mix.
Where can you get real black powder. I haven’t seen around anywhere.
You got any videos of triple 7 in 12ga? I reload mine and i like it👍
Nope
Not a 777 comment but do you have any flint lock pistols you could do a video of shooting with? With real black powder of course.
I do
Subs work fine in my matchlock, I'm afraid to try them in my flintlock.
Really don't want to adapt them to caps 😢
I have to concur, And I am a pyrodex snob, of course no flintlocks I shoot percussions and 209 primers but yes 100% blackpowder for flintlocks I have heard the same from others as well I use pyrodex in a flintlock with no issues, When asked to show me the day is at hand and all kinds of issues that "Never Happened before". I have even heard of 5% black first the remaining pyrodex charge, issue is pyrodex still gums up flash hole. So yes if one is shooting flintlocks, Blackpowder all the way. Well I do not dislike flintlocks I dislike the unavailability of blackpowder in my area, and YES I could always make my own, I prefer not having that headache, I got enough with work, kids and house hold chores, reloading, making my own wads , casting my own bullets I would prefer sometime for actually shooting.