Mike Winger on Genesis 19 with Lot and His Daughters
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- Опубліковано 8 вер 2024
- This is a clip from my interview where I talk with Mike Winger about Genesis 19. Forgive the cringe on my end!
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He is right. The bible records what happened and condemns it later. Incest like this is later condemned in Leviticus.
Jip it is a sin.The new testament also says it
I never understood how Lot could be too drunk to know what he was doing but somehow able to take it to “completion” and impregnate both daughters. One on Tuesday and the other on Wednesday..? Seems like he he would have known not to drink so much the 2nd night based on his blackout the night before. It’s a difficult story to believe for me personally.
I agree. It is sickening. I could never imagine doing such a thing with my father. I'd much rather stay childless.
And then consider the difficulty of one woman conceiving on the first try, and multiply that by the difficulty of two women conceiving on the first try two nights in a row.
Either there was a divine intervention to produce these children in the service of God's plan or there was a certain amount of later editing to cover up a long term affair.
@@JustClaude13 I don't think there was "difficulty" in getting pregnant in biblical times. If you had sex, she got pregnant. Period. (seemingly) 😉
@@PettyPaigetastic
If that were true, fertility doctors would quickly go out of business.
Humans have poor fertility rates and it often requires several attempts and careful timing to conceive.
@@JustClaude13 Right...? That's why I said, "in Biblical times".
:)
Thanks so much for posting this. I appreciate you saying that the Bible “records wrongdoings.” This passage very much confused me, and I’m early on in my bible reading journey. I will remember these “examples” as passages that I will refer back to in the later pages of the bible.
Glad it helped :)
An overall look at Lot reveals he had his own struggles and flaws. Add to this that Lot was prepared to hand his daughters over to the townsmen when they came to his home seeking the angels. Then, he only goes to warn his son-in-laws about the coming doom, and not his own biological children. This all is a glimpse into a dysfunctional family relationship. You start to realize you can’t blame the daughters for the dysfunction their father enabled (and probably exemplified).
Another thing to point out is that Lot was willing to have his daughters defiled by the men of Sodom, perhaps just so he could be "hospitable" to his visitors. In this story, his daughters also defile him and themselves along with him just so they could continue the family line. Lot had certainly failed in communicating the concept of sexual purity as a great value.
Another point, perhaps the point is mentioned in 2 Peter where Lot is described as "righteous". So how can he be both righteous and sinful? The answer is in Christ. The hope that was given to Abraham to believe and be made righteous. Note how Abraham sinned as well, twice is mentioned regarding giving his wife. After faith we are not perfect. Everyone in the Bible was sinful except Christ. But our hope is in Him as we live out our faith, though never perfectly and sometimes we do horrible things....inexcusable, yet we have the hope of the Gospel.
Amen
Thank you! I read that spirture and asked God how can I explain this to someone who talks about this being in the bible. This is a great explanation.
This was not an explanation 😅
Funny you find this explanation great cause it doesn't takes away the fact that the daughters of lot drugged and rapped their father and god watch and didn't do anything and the fact that this two sister think all men is dead is a big mistake that doesn't go in notice I mean there is literally a city next to them not to mention people at that time travel a great deal to purchase goods and other things imagine how LOT feels when he finds out his two daughters are pregnant and worse it's his child the shock on his face this is great error on the Bible writers side certainly this is how it happened and
"THE DAUGHTERS OF LOT RAPPED THEIR FATHER " that is the correct summary of the story they didn't ask he didn't consent they just drugged him and the rest is history
Fax
Feminist would hate to see this passage
No, not history just make belief
@@koki84ji7 what i mean is christian narrative but luckily islamic narrative don't claim such absurd story of prophet lot
I just read it now I wanted to vomit I was so sick thanks for that
Me also,but it was definitely wrong the Bible says that
They didn't mention Lot's wife, who is important in that Bible passage. She committed the sin of looking back when they were leaving the city, so God punished her by turning her into a pillar of salt. What would be the punishment for a sin as horrific as incest? According to the Bible, nothing. Lot's wife was punished by God, but God didn't punish Lot's daughters for doing something much worse. Where is the morality or justice in that?
Not to mention Lot tried to throw his daughters into an angry mob of men to be raped to the mens hearts content, in order to save some random man. How does Gpd let these things slide
Lot and his daughters are filthy, terrible people. They don't get any punishment, but Lot's wife gets the death penalty. Is this the correct book for us to read when we want to learn about morality and become a good person?
Incest hadn't been made a sin at that time. It was later forbidden to the Hebrew people in the purity laws, along with eating pork and mixing wool with cotton.
And since the purpose of the purity laws is to separate the Hebrew from the gentile, it's frequently considered that the proscription only applies to those under the covenant. It was perfectly acceptable in their day for Abram to marry his half-sister Sarai or for the children of Adam to marry each other.
Or for Lot's daughters to sleep with their father, although it was a sin for them to make him drunk and take him by deception without his consent.
What punishment did they receive for having sex with someone without his consent?
@@dualscreengrant
The Bible never says. I think that should have been included, but apparently it wasn't important to the overall message of the Scriptures.
Thank you for covering this. For me, Genesis 19:6 to 8 is more disturbing. Lot is described as a righteous man, and accordingly he tries to protect the angels. What horrified me was that he was willing to sacrifice his daughters to the sexual perverts. How can you justify his willingness to give them up?
I am not feminist, but these type of passages makes me realize how little value women's lives had in comparison.
There is another similar story (judges 19) where a woman was given to sexual perverts and she was cut to pieces and sent to all tribes of Israel as a warning. But when read that story , I blame not just the perverts. I blame the man who willingly gave her up to save his neck. How would you explain this?
Fun fact : there were man other than lot there were Abraham and his people when this was happening kkk teda but god let it happen anyways
Idk if you still have this question, but Lot is described as righteousness, but it doesn't mean he was a good person. The way the Bible writes about him, makes him practically only saved because Abraham's intercession for him in genesis 18. You are correct, the value of women at that time was terrible, and still was for years.
That passage and others in that book commonly end with something like …in those days they did what the thought was right in their eyes. It’s not a justification of what they did, it is an example of how perverse people become when they fall away from God, a higher moral authority, and justify their incrementally selfish needs and desires.
nice application there Mr Mike.Thanks 😇
I wish Mike would go through the Bible again and not just Q and A. This was great.
God tells us the Truth.
Comments deleted? Fear of conversation?
I was hoping you would cover who is the mobiles and ammonites are and whether or not there were consequences of how they came to be.
Your statement is been recorded sir
On the day of Judgement
You will be judge by your self
That really stood up to me
Iv wondered about this story for years like where was the cave that lot and his daughter were. sleeping in was it close to Sodom also i wondered where lot daughters got the wine from
Where I am from most Christians believe that the new testament Gospels, Acts and the letters are what to focus your faith on. Some of the old testament has historically relevance but most is considered Jewish fables that have their value in moral teachings, not dissimilar to.the parables of Jesus. Revelation is also interpreted symbolically but I respect my Christian brothers and sisters who interpret the OT literally. God bless everyone ❤✝️
Lot is a righteous prophet. It is impossible for him to drink wine and sleep with his daughters!
Lot is human. He is not Jesus. Lot is human and makes mistakes/sins he’s not a perfect sin free man
@@katie4395 No. God Himself described him as righteous.
@@Khaledf that doesn’t mean that he’s never sinned before. Jesus is the only one who has never sinned before otherwise Lot would be the messiah and not Jesus
@@katie4395 This is just a christian belief.
@@Khaledf Yes why wouldn’t it be
thank you so much for explaining this
Really??? Besides he didn't deliver an explanation, fact is - if this entire thing is true - that you accept it as true; you not only accept it as true, you live by it, as I conclude (I may be wrong, hopefully I am). Fact also is that this act was incest and rape under drugs. These daughters knew well that they could do this only if their father is drunk. He would have never accepted this if he would have been sober. The daughters knew this. You can twist it as much as you want, by accepting this as the holy word of God, or inspired by God, you accept that God watched this and accepted this as OK, inspite he just destroyed the cities exactly because of this behavior.
This is nothing short of disgusting! ...and this is not the only thing which is in the Bible which can be classfied as disgusting according to todays moral and ethical standards.
Quran chapter 11 verses 77-83:(11:77) And when Our messengers came to Lot,85 he was perturbed by their coming and felt troubled on their account, and said: 'This is a distressing day.86 (11:78) And his people came to him rushing. Before this they were wont to commit evil deeds. Lot said: 'My people! Here are my daughters; they are purer for you.87 Have fear of Allah and do not disgrace me concerning my guests. Is there not even one right-minded person in your midst?' (11:79) They said: 'Surely you already know that we have nothing to do with your daughters.88 You also know well what we want.' (11:80) He said: 'Would that I had the strength to set you straight, or could seek refuge in some powerful support.' (11:81) Thereupon the angels said: 'O Lot! We indeed are messengers of your Lord. And your people will in no way be able to hurt you. So depart with your family in a part of the night and let no one of you turn around89 excepting your wife (who shall not go); for what will befall them shall also befall her.90 In the morning their promised hour will come. Is not the morning near?' (11:82) And when Our command came to pass, We turned the town upside down, and rained on it stones of baked clay, one on another,91 (11:83) marked from your Lord.92 Nor is the punishment far off from the wrong-doers.
How can God save lot's girls while they're wrong doers! The biblical story is deranged unlike the Quran
i am confused this act was condeem but Abraham matrried his sister and issac married his cousin and i am sure they had sexy thats how jacob and esu were born and jacob married his 2 cousins and had children with them nad both moses mom and dad were Aunt and nephew so how is what they did ok
Wow man, this is truly horrific to claim on Lot PBUH.
I want to point out what happened before then: when the angels get to Lot's house, the sick men from Sodoma come demanding Lot send the angels so they can rape them. Lot replies: "No. Don't do this wicked thing. Take my daughters instead!" Like, huh??? How is that possible?? What was Lot thinking!!!
Why is it with all of these horrific evil vial scriptures that we always have someone who wants to explain it interpret it and put it into context ?
It's not required the scriptures speak volumes for themselves.
This story shock me, please explain
These were different times, it was usual in some civilizations for people to have sexual relations with their daughters. Especially in Egypt, pharaos married their daughters all the time to preserve the bloodline. People had different morals back then.
Most of what you read in the bible is to desensitize and brainwash the reader into believing that horrendous and immoral acts against there own children or other people children is normal. Given the times they were living in it was most likely the other way around with the dad getting intoxicated and rapeing or molesting his own daughters and claiming he doesn't remember it ever happening. Just like in this day and age.
@@whowhatwhere3808 yeah yeah blah blah blah
Oh there was a town next to them but Because they were afraid to have marital relationship? Where did you get that excuse? Are you saying it's easier to rape half passed out man than going in the town and get married? 🤯 thank you for your made up excuse and illogical deduction 👏👏👏👏
Mike my son thinks incest between step dad and step daughter is fine. Even though step dad knew her when she was four. Could you pls clear that. He said incest is ok because she is not his biological daughter!!! He has been watching your videos. Please show him with bible verses that it is wrong.
both Lot’s oldest and younger did try to eject semen but Lot perceived not.
the older daughter tried once
and the tried again
Brother you are a intelligent person. You are a pastor, you must have read Quran. What are your thought honestly?
Gods promise
‘This isn’t for kids right now’, its part of the bible, are you saying christian kids should only pick rather than reading the whole bible? This is pretty much pornography within the bible, it’s as simple as that. You answer the question with a question and barely explained the passage.
That's a stretch, don't you think? It's certainly weird by today's standards but Pornography? Really? It's not like they went into graphic detail with illustrations like many books that leftists are arguing should be in public school libraries.
The bottom line is, a child going onto teens, decides to read the bible, is this acceptable for a child to read let alone envision? This is filth, its just brushed under the carpet
@@shak5006 the way it's worded is very safe and tame. "Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father.” Of course, it's explained later that incest is wrong. Filth may be a stretch unless you're already biased against the Bible. Have you seen what libs are defending being in elementary schools up to high school? Illustrated representations of fellatio, anal sex and so on. Even between adults and minors. You definitely have problem with THAT right? RIGHT? And where are you on "Family friendly drag shows?" Are you cool with that?
@@shak5006 It literally reads, "32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father.” they think they have to do this to preserve the human race. It's later explained that incest is wrong. How do you feel about the graphic illustrated books that libs defend found even in grade school down to kindergarten showing oral/anal sex even between adults and children? How do you feel about "family friendly drag shows?"
I don't know where my replies keep going. It's like, they're disappearing.
So the hittites (sic) and the other group of people came from just one family and you believe this is legitimate, and the Father has procreated with his children and this carry’s on until you have a society that is so interbread (they lived in a mountainous region with little or no running waters) that just doesn’t work genetically and where in this region thousands of years before the birth of Christ would you procure wine that is strong enough and plentiful enough to get you so drunk that you would have sex with both of your daughters considering that God considered him to be the only good man then what might the story be if he chose an ordinary person from that town, and yet religious people tell me that we only know right from wrong because of these teachings but before I was a teenager with disruptive alcoholic parents and with no religious guidance I knew that hurting someone was bad and being nice generally gets good results.instead of burying your head in trying to make meaning out of ancient texts try researching the issues that truly matter today!
Abraham married his sister and adam and eve,s children had no one to couple with bit each other.
These were different times, people had different morals. It's a bit shocking for us modern people but it was common back then.
@@ashley_brown6106 I didn’t mean that as a judgement. I know it was really common back then. So why is this case depicted in a negative light.
@@dud3man6969 because God didn't want this to happen, it is immoral. People's morals change but God's morals are eternal and unchanging.
@@ashley_brown6106 I’m not an advocate, but the Bible clearly supports it in other cases, but not in this case.
@@dud3man6969 can you give an example? Or name a passage?
😂haram
Christian mental acrobatics at its best 😂😂😂😂😂😂
👀
They have wines but they didn't have men around . O yeah
Hehe
If it happened..it was because of God's will to ensure Lots future generation . Remember GOD made man and women..God did not make marriages and hence terms as daughter, faIf it happened..it was because of God's will. Remember GOD made man and women..God did not make marriages and hence terms as daughter, father , son..wife are all man made with little relevance.ther , son..wife are all man made with little relevance.
As procreation just requires Man and Woman....Male and Female.
That was a softball question and answer. Zach doesn't need an explanation from a pastor to know incest and rape are disgusting and immoral. Yet there's Christians in this world that see nothing wrong and have practiced these heinous acts, because its n the bible.
Read Glorious Quran at least once in your life time. Then think which one is better and the truth!
There are not many book, its just 1 book. 1 God( "Allah" in arabic ) the only god whom we worship. Sorry to say but no 3 in 1 or 1 in 3 , no confusion. Just 1 creator.
Simple
@@Ahl-al-bayt786 I'm a christian and i believe the Trinity is a misunderstanding. Jesus was of divine nature but that doesn't make him God. He never claimed to be God, the bible never claims that God is 3 people.
@@ashley_brown6106
Maybe a little more thoughtful prayer and understanding of what it means to be of a divine nature.
If you are of a Human Nature that makes you human. So a divine Nature would make you God. Philippians 2:6 KJV - Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
This means equality with God was something that was his right, Jesus was not taking something that was not his - he is not a thief.
Jesus also had a human Nature he shared through Adam, Romans 5 and his virgin birth.
So our Lord had two natures - both human and divine - the theological term hear is the hypostatic union.
Restricted to time and space here: but the Jewish understanding of Daniel 7: 13 was the Son of Man here is YHWH.
Jesus says he is the one fulfilling Daniel 7:13 in Mark 14:62 KJV - And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man SITTING on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
No one sits next to God like you are God, unless you are i.e. co-equal.
Jesus makes many references to himself as God.
His I AM statements in John's Gospel.
When he says I AM HE in John 18: 6 (Isaiah 52:5-6, 43: 25, etc). He is equating equality with the Father.
John 1: 1.
1 John 5:7 KJV - For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these THREE ARE ONE.
Bible says God is one, Jesus quotes the Shema, Mark 12: 29.
The Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct, with all the attributes of a living person/being or conscience.
God bless.
Those verses a disastrous, the whole bible us disastrous.
Wake up Christians
Corrupted
The bible didn't give this as a good example. Many times in the Old Testament immoral actions are recorded, this doesn't mean that the bible approves of them.
@@ashley_brown6106 so, those are not God's words?
@@brace_yourself the bible is not like the quran, it's inspired by God but not every word is from the "mouth" of God. There is human interpretation involved.
@@ashley_brown6106, So it's a Corrupted book?
Just imagine what was the man writing editing this book was thinking about😂
Ahhhh-men
The Bible story about Lot and his daughters reminds me of Donald Trump and his daughter Ivanka.
Yes, it is strange and disgusting no doubt. Lot, who is a righteous prophet of God who is depicted in the bible as a fool who unknowingly gets drunk by his own daughters to get pregnant ( incest ). Sorry, you would not read that to your children at night, there is no moral story to derive from that, it is disgusting, humans put that story in the bible, thus the bible is corrupted, and not the word of God.
However........there is hope. Prophet Lot is depicted in a much clearer light in the Qur'an, the final revelation from God to mankind.
Alhumdulilah for guidance and Islam.
@Triple5Soul Stole ?
@Triple5Soul Are you Christian/Atheist/Agnostic ?
@Triple5Soul Are you Christian/Catholic/Atheist ?
@Triple5Soul Hello ?
@Triple5Soul First stole, now incest ? What religion are you ?