Quick note! Aegis Mind has also made some recordings on their channel of the Tormentors from way back when and of the Dread generally. Dropping them here in case people are using them to sample some of the dialogue. ua-cam.com/video/nZn5SlW1_AU/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/iy3yiiaZ4sM/v-deo.html
What about the raid pin that bungie is selling? It looks like it could be some sort of cypher with all the hands in different positions and pointing to different runes/glyphs? Just a thought
@user-gk4qd8rw5w in the Witness's case it sounds like reverse speech or just very distorted Dread speak. In fact I do think some of it is just taken from the Subjugators just very distorted.
Would the Dread language be any different from the Precursor's language? If so, I wonder at its origins. Is it cobbled together from the languages of the Cabal and Psions and Fallen? Is it adopted from a previously Finalized species, like the Lubraeans or Noesis?
@@brentgrisier1738 yeah, not what's going to happen. I'm an adult with a full time job. I spend maybe two hours a week on Destiny and my mother's main issue is the fact that she lives far away and we'd have to work on it online.
@goofyfurball7311 It's a joke. Also, I'm an adult with a full-time job as well, and I only get to play for about two hours if I'm not too tired. My mother still tells me to stop playing when I talk to her.
@@brentgrisier1738 that sucks. My father was that way. These days my mother prefers to let me ramble about Destiny lore stuff instead of telling me that fun is a waste of time. Wish she had figured that out 30 years ago, but better late than never, I guess
“I’m not a linguist” Yeah I’m pretty sure you trying to speak the all too (in)famous Valus Ta’aurc intro dialogue in German during your GCX TSLAYP Raid-a-Thon told us that. But, Sir Byf, the Community has spoken. Lore Daddy can never rest XD
This whole topic reminds me directly of the gradual efforts to translate the Phyrexian language from Magic The Gathering. It’s very complicated and doesn’t even use what we would consider an “alphabet”, but over time the community and linguists alike have been able to translate and understand it in a truly impressive way. My guess is this will be something similar with the Dread language, it’ll take a long time to figure out but it will be very satisfying as it’s pieced together. (If you aren’t familiar with the topic, I recommend watching the last section of Rhystic Studies’ video on Phyrexia, it’s a wonderfully interesting delve into linguistics!)
Somebody, get the people from the Magic:The Gathering fandom in here, they translated and figured out parts of the phyrexian language from looking at the cards, for Cayde's sake!
@@nicko9715 Sort of. They're transliterations of english text using the phyrexian script, but the cards are not actually translated into the phyrexian language.
The symbol that keeps popping up whenever the Witness or the Precursor civilization is visualized, the strange tree-like one that's subtely different everytime it pops up, there's something about it that makes me think that itself is a hieroglyph. I can't quite put my finger on what it is specifically, but i also can't shake the feeling that there's something to it. The closest example I can think of is Zonai script from the game Outer Wilds. Highly recommend it, by the way, but the language has an unconventional sentence structure on top of alien language, with spiraling and branching thoughts off of the central idea and main message.
I think it's a writing form. A central line representing a sentence or word with branching lines, arcs, circles, etc from it denoting sounds, syllables, etc.
@@MelancholicBodhisattva If that is the case, I think the raid might have given us a clue for the direction to read it with the symbol wall we use for red borders, bottom to top. Rhulk's Upended also filled bottom to top but that could just be "because video game"
As someone whos helped decode THREE dialects of dead Scala (kingdom hearts) a key fundament isnt more the written word, although that WOULD help, but ironically, subtitles and if possible, file names. There being a lore tab from Eulogy with a reference to pyramdian should NOT be overlooked as a contextual refernece. A litteral translation it is not. Moreover, missing letters of less common characters is actually a good thing if its a 1:1, as written scala even now has us missing z, q, and one other letter that im forggeting off hand. The language is serviceable and we can facimilate those rare missing characters if need be due to having a treasure trove of data mined texture sheet characters. The consistency requires cross references and all of this requires DETAILED texture matching
So I know I'm late to this but here's a few things I would consider when tackling this language problem: If the different localizations have different percentages then use the language that has the highest percentage in order to use the language with the best translation. The percentages at the end of euphony tell us the most accurate interpretation of the words/phrases. If the percentages aren't different then at least one of the languages would be the most accurate. For simplicity sake, it can be assumed to be English. Since this "Rosetta stone" of a wall exists then it could be assumed that at least one other language was translated from the Dread's language. Maybe looking into different species that were turned into the Dread would help some or even other species that sided with The Witness or those that are prominent in the Pale Heart. Going off of this train of thought, I have doubt that one of the other languages was that of the Cabal since we already know how to translate that language, though it should not be ruled out. As far as the recordings of the Dread, maybe translating them into phrases like "hey the guardian is over there!" or other battle phrases could help some. Probably the best bet would be starting with lightbearer, guardian, or other synonyms that are known to us and our enemy. Also finding out if the phonetics match any existing human language narrow down a best human language of best fit. Since they used a constructive language tool to model the Dread's language then looking at the parameters the tool uses could help too. Last thing I can think of for the English version of the lore tab is that since we are given percentages of uncertain words then looking at synonyms in English or finding synonyms in other localized languages that were used could help with translation. Essentially working through the etymology of the words to find the best translation. My final thing I can think of is trying to see who the speaker and audience is in this piece. The biggest clue I can find is that the language of the speaker has either a more sophisticated way of describing music or a more simple one. Maybe looking into musical terms and trying to dumb them down might lead to the conclusion of the translated word/phrase. I see this as a linear algebra problem tied with a hint of probability. Looking into a probability distribution of letters/characters of different languages also wouldn't be a bad place to look either. If only said wall was found.
Euphony's barrel? if it could even be called that is literally just the witness's hands/fingers. I guess thats one way to turn a raid boss into a weapon.
If the dread language is meant to have a Rosetta Stone, maybe it’s written form is something akin to hieroglyphics? Kind of like the images associated with resonance *glyphs* from Vow and the campaign missions?
I actually took a language design class in college one year (not that this makes me an expert in any way. One of our "textbooks" was just the Klingon dictionary). One of the challenging things as a starting point is that the Dread language may not be constructed with an alphabet at all, so trying to pair up symbols (wherever they may be) to Roman lettering may not be possible. A symbol could be an entire word, or concept, as opposed to a letter. If you're looking at a symbol and can't determine if it's a word or a letter, you have no basis of understanding, and hearing the language phonetically doesn't contribute at all to understanding either written or spoken language, unless a native speaker is actually reading something aloud. It doesn't help that the lore tab on this Exotic does not provide an untranslated transcription of the text it's reciting. Now THAT would've been our Rosetta stone to at least understand the written portion. As to why it hasn't been found in the game yet, at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if Bungie would add this "recessed wall" either in a new strike within the Pale Heart, or if they shadow add it in somewhere. It doesn't physically exist now, but it could in the future if Bungie decides to sneak it in.
I don’t know if this is related, but there is one moment regarding the Witness in the cutscenes where it confronts Zavala. After it shows Zavala how the creation process took place, you can see subtitles that say [Witness chants]. It sounds like the Witness says something like “sing to loss.” I’m positive it doesn’t actually say that specifically, but that’s how I heard it. You can also hear the Precursor’s chanting in the background during the cutscene, but I don’t think their chanting is intelligible at all. But clearly Bungie meant it to mean something, for the Witness to chant this one unknown phrase. They wouldn’t make a subtitle for it if it wasn’t important, let alone have the Witness say such an enigmatic thing in the first place. There’s more to this.
In the cutscene where Zavala sees the ritual that created the witness and where targe dies, the witness actually chants in another language. This is after the dissenter whispers into Zavala’s ear. Pretty interesting and I think it’s the dread language or the normal language of the precursors? Perhaps that’s what the dread language is anyway, just precursor original language.
Something to note for people searching for the wall in the strike, you don't need to go into the strike to look at the area, if you launch the Dissent mission you can turn around and walk throught the entire thing
YEEEEES IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VID!! Euphony is literally my fav gun at the moment!! Ive only had it a week and already got 2400 kills on it lol. Also, the fact that i outdamage still hunt hunters is CRAZY 😂
theory. the dread language is written in pictures (think the pictures that you have to select to access cave and solve the puzzles in the pale heart) ref 17:40. remember a good story rhymes with real life.
I agree that it is unlikely that there is a slab of stone somewhere we haven't found. Especially given how on the nose the Euphony lore tab is in terms of suggesting it. As far as translating goes.... The thing that makes it the most difficult is that we only hear them in combat saying combat things. We don't get to see them outside of that. We don't get to listen to them speak around a dinner table or hear a pair of Dread speak about mundane day to day stuff. Because despite the differences in our languages and cultures, language exists to facilitate social interactions between two or more beings that speak the same language. Combat is not exactly a "social" thing because it often results in one party being killed. So there isn't much there, and it's mostly just screams or single word statements. But in conversation you can hear how diferent sounds play out. You could listen for repeated patterns. For example, if you heard the English word "Fighting" over and over again it isn't very useful. But if you heard the words fighting, running, healing, jumping, sleeping, combing, listening, hearing, and blinking.... you might start to notice a pattern of the "ing" suffix being present in all of them. You don't know what it means, or what those words mean, but you could reasonably deduce that the sound of "ing" is a suffix and not part of the base word or root word. That kind of deduction will be extremely difficult given how little Dread language we can hear, and how limited the contexts we do hear it are.
Deciphering their language would be a great opportunity for you to make a discord. Add stuff similar to other creators discords, but also and places for lore discussion and maybe space for those working on the language. It would also be a cool place to poll or get ideas from your community to see what people want to see you cover.
Wait.....The brackets IMMEDIATELY made me think of "Tesselation" the pre-order exotic. It's Description - "This [weapon|instrument|topology] adapts its damage type to match your equipped grenade. Final blows grant grenade energy." and "Consume your grenade to load a large [projectile|shape|language] that generates an elemental explosion on impact." Could there be symbols or clues on the weapon?? Oh no I see a rabbit hole.
Love the video, hopefully some folks crack the code so we can get even more lore from the expansion. Also, unrelated, I faced you in trials a few weeks ago and tried to show my excitement with emotes. Thought it might come off as rude once the match was done and wanted to let you know if some Warlock was trying to give your Ghost a hug, it was out of love! 😅
This would make figuring out the eliksni language sound simple back in D1, i once knew a friend who did a good impression on a fallen and it spooked me
Theres a UA-camr by the name "Aegis Mind" that has uploaded the sfx for all of the Dread & the Witness, & based off that im unsure if the Dread share the same language as the Witness when It speaks in alt language or the whispers It does when heard from various instances/objects
So I get the vibe Euphony was meant to be our signature Disciple weapon had we joined The Witness akin to Lubrae's Ruin being Rhulk's signature weapon.
Look up Sarsion in the Cryptarchy also others in Venextron Discord were able to understand what languages were being used, but there was another realization thanks to Sarsion that it’s a mix indo-European and Latin. Which gave him a thought about it being close to or slightly similar to the Eliksni language.
there is also some languages both in real life and fiction that are more conceptual languages the either have each word representing certain ideas or heavily dependent on context to get the proper meaning of any given text
Given how little we hear the Dread actually speak (probably less than a hundred distinct audio lines) and the absolute lack of similarities due to it being an alien language, I'd guess the best bet is to crack it like how the German Enigma code was cracked in WWII, which was cracked because of an extremely common repeating phrase in a majority of intercepted transmissions (can't repeat it because UA-cam). For the Dread, I'd be interested in seeing if text lines from the various Disciples (especially Rhulk and Nezarec) could be repeated given the right context, especially if they relate to words or phrases like "Witness" or "Final Shape" or anything related to combat. In keeping with the Sword Logic, I'd imagine it's like a battle language from Dune, since the Dread were only made to fight for the Witness; the heavy syllables remind me of Denis Villeneuve's interpretation of Harknonnen, which was as brutally efficient as it was harsh on the ears. It's interesting how many times language has connected to larger plot beats in Destiny in the past, namely with Oryx almost cutting his daughters' tongues out for not speaking the Imperial Tongue at one point in the Books of Sorrow regarding throne worlds, and also when first the Cabal and then the Shadow Legion reduced their language just to make tactical communications more efficient at the cost of soul, poetry, and nuance. Maybe since the Dread are mostly just twisted forms of existing enemies (rip Grim), bits of Hive or Psion language might help if they've been even partially cracked?
Idea. In the future we might have acess to some way to write the dread language in a dread activity and we could use our rough translations to find other info to perfect it
The bits about the golden harp and references to music makes me wonder if there is any connection between the feed and the choral vex. The choral vex are all about music and these references have to mean something
15:09 i don’t know what it is about it but i find it somewhat scary that a being with the goal to basically end the universe as we know it has its own language and there is a word that even with the translation we are so unfamiliar with its concept we still don’t know what it means even after being translated, same goes for the phrases that have a >10% confidence accuracy to them.
I swear to the Light and Dark, Bungie specifically mentioned that the Dread Language is translatable for the sole purpose of giving the Lore Community a reason to not only keep playing every single day, but to have them run around the Pale Heart like headless chickens like we did in Taken King looking for Sleeper Simulant.
I think you need a special weapon scope to see the writing on the walls. I mean, wasent it a mechanic in a past event/senario? It wouldn't surprise me if that was added here as well.
When I first saw the live stream going over the language I went straight to work trying to find out what he says and the closest thing I could find was Latin granted it was finicky trying to find the right combo to get a phrase but what I eventually got was “I was born with a vow to live.”
The Doylist Explanation: I hate to be a spoilsport, but it’s entirely possible that this “Dread Language” is an old Bungie joke from the Halo Era they are maintaining. …as by pure coincidence, I’m sure, Halo Bungie also said Covenant Languages can be translated into English. Can they be? Not really, no. Some phrases could be found by reversing lines, but it was just used for the audio. There wasn’t a fully understandable language to be found. It’s entirely possible that this is another iteration of this troll. And if you think Bungie would never send us on a wild goose chase: Remember the D1 Kings Fall Basketball Court? Or “Complete Shattered Throne Solo on 999 Light”? Or the Original 15th Wish? Or Caydes Ramen Coupon? Or the Telesto Strange Changes? The community tried to discover a secret Bungie implied existed, but it never did. On the more optimistic side, me and my friend swore we heard a Dread say *”Your Flesh is Weak.”* So the Dread are Cyborgs?
This is making me wonder, if Euphony is updated to have a Catalyst, maybe we'll find that wall in the raid somewhere? Could be a Basketball Court of Oryx scenario but with more moving parts on how to find it, but that requires Euphony getting a Catalyst first, and a majority of our raid Exotics still have yet to get any
Didn't the developers once say there were still secrets in Vault of Glass/Black Garden that players still hadn't found? I remember it being iconic D1 location, with the comment made during D2.
Listen I’m no one special when it comes to finding stuff but the two things that comes to mind is 1. Where we got ergo sum (as in the mission we load into to get it and not the witness battle field) 2. The darkness wall that Zavala goes into
“Perhaps the final shape is not silence, it is a symphony” is just a fancier way of saying “maybe the final shape were the friends we made along the way”
I think the Euphony lore is itself a clue for how the language is made. It could be telling us about how features like pitch accent or stress or vowel/consonant length is designed in the language. Considering the devs in Destiny are generally English-speaking, I doubt they went with something fully tonal like Mandarin.
Go look at the Fate's Intertwined Emblem, those symbols might be Dread text. I think there are more of those symbols across the game too. Also, what if the wall in Euphony is the Red Border wall in Salvation's Edge? Probably not, but it's worth a think I guess. There's also another wall sandwiched between the Red Border symbols that looks like red brick. Maybe that's important? Again, probably not. But it is worth a look, isn't it?
It'll take a couple of years to get some basics in translation and some kind of alphabet. It took a few years to translate the Na'vi language and also to figure out the Na'vi alphabet.
Oh this has a LOT of Potential. I think for sure though, this "Golden Harp" could be represented in-game by either Euphony itself, or perhaps Wish-Ender.
The thing about Euphony I'm interested is the interpretation that it may be talking about Resonant/Resonance, the unexplained Darkness element of the Witness and its Pyramid Ships. Which would make it one of the few pieces of law that might give insight into what the hell it *is.*
This may be an imaginary theory butttt when you start the last mission of the campaign, where you rally before taking out the tormentor. When you are standing in the corn fields just before it, look at the wall that you have to go towards to jump down and rally, there is a huge wall with a witness hand holding it up. For a good ways down the wall is a “jade glass wall” with a bunch of shapes and ticks and lines and circles. It reminds me of braille or Morse code. The reason why this sticks out to me is because of the lore tab from Euphony. The part specifically about “the following text was found recessed into a stone wall within the Pale Heart”. Plus this area sticks out way more simply because of the witness hand. There is also one almost identical on Euphony that holds the iron sights. Plus the green glass feels like a hint at Strand. Idk could be a huge stretch. Another theory is that in a recent video Byf did he mentioned that the witness loved music. Is there a way to have music as a language and associate it with each letter of the alphabet and then put that into Morse code…maybe braille? Idk hopefully anyone has some thoughts on this.
The idea that as some letters are not present in Euphony's text meaning that some letters would be missing from the wall, is only accurate if bungie didn't create a conlang for the Dread, but instead created a cypher of English. So each English letter is replaced with a new symbol, each sound is replaced with a new one. Conlangs used in media have been way more advanced than this for a long time, often with modified or new alphabets which don't map to an existing language, a new grammar structure that is different to what the creator and viewers/players are used to. In the vidoc they mentioned creating grammar for the language which suggests that it's not just a cypher.
I did the same thing! I read the euophony lore tab and immediately went out to go find this wall and only found the exact same writing on those piller things! But to no avail :/ I hope it’s an actual physical wall with a way to decipher the language. If not I heard someone on Reddit say if you go back to the strikes or story mission of light fall where we first hear nezerac you can try and listen to his voices lines before and after putting on relic of nezerac to try and decipher the language that way
the dialect sounded familiar to me then i realized that it sounds EXTREMELY close to navi' from james camerons avatar. some sounds use the exact enunciation. i also remember a wall i saw in a part early in the beginning that had writing on the back of it ill look back to see if it is what i think it was now.
While no where near as complicated this reminds me of wen I was little trying to decode the unknown language in pokemon heart gold. Got a paper and pencil and started writing down all the letters to translate lol
[softer] ~ gentler. [beingness] ~ existence. [golden harp] ~ lyre. [?UNKOWN?] ~ final shape/perfection. [buttresses] ~ pillars. [tuned] ~ harmonized. [balance of distress] ~ equilibrium. [rupture] ~ tear. [vibration reverberates] ~ it echoes. [atmosphere] ~ space. [they crest then fade] ~ then subsides. [plucked] ~ struck. [sweet music] ~ Euphony. [we are the hand that plucks] ~ the composers. Also, isn’t this lore tab describing what happened to The Witness or just them.
I'm actually hesitant about it, but can it be that this text is the tree-like ornament on the map of the pale heart(the one near the raid and 12-men mission)? It seems to be too small and stylistically different from other pyramid-style ornaments, and missing many of the recurrent patterns of those. But weirder thing irl are actually readable words while looking like some pretty patterns(like kufic square script or ogham for example)
Has anyone looked for spectrograms in either Euphony's sound effects or any of the music tracks? The lore tab spends a lot of time talking about wavelengths.
That gets me wondering. The lore tab describes a golden harp, and further focuses into it with other verbage like "tightened" and "tuned." Makes me think about maybe taking your approach to any stringed instrument music, motifs, or environmental noises wherever they might exist in the game.
Since that vidoc and the revelation we'd return to the Dreadnaught in Heresy, I've been wondering if the Dread language (written) isn't connected to the writing on the shrine in the Cathedral of Dusk. Those glyphs are even resonance colored
Could it be the rest of the stone wall at the beginning of the raid for the red border chest, since we only use the third column for the actual puzzles?
I don‘t think we‘ll find a wall with actual words, rather there could be a wall with pictures that show the words we know and what those words are like in the Dread-language; imagine seeing a Blade on the left side (where the true meaning is) and then a chicken on the right side (because the Dread word for „Blade“ sounds like „Chiken“); and then we have to match our knowledge from the wall with the ingame dialogue..
I don't know if this has been proposed yet (and if it has, sorry for wasting time), but we may need to, perhaps, use a weapon's sights to look at every single wall within the pale heart, maybe it could give us some sort of vision we normally wouldn't have. Or maybe we need something like Taken vision (like that one mission we can see platforms and stuff)
Also go watch the guy speak on stream and see if there are subtitles or if he mentions what he said. I’m talking about the dlc stream where the guy speaks the dread language.
In enigma protocol could the room with all the random human objects encased in bubbles be a sign they’ve started to worship us after the witness’s death?
With that point Byf made about the language being differently translated between languages, has anyone read Euphony in multiple languages and confirmed if the lore tab is actually translated the same or not, like is "Golden Harp" in English still "Golden Harp" in French etc.
What if some of the dread lines are speaking phrases from that stone wall, if some of their lines line up with the phrases at the end in the lore tab then we might be able to start there.
It feels like the weapons from Salvations Edge and Root of Nightmares were switched. Conditional Finality has its spirit in transcendence and Eupony is a strand weapon. If you swapped the lore tabs the weapons would make more sense
Conditional Finality is a weapon perfectly representing Nezarec's rebirth. He was only brought back because of the way Light of the Traveler's beam interacted with the Darkness in the Witness' pyramid. During the raid we enter DPS when either Light or Darkness reject him. And he is immortal, said to be able to come back potentially even from the death we handed to him during the raid, thus his finality is only ever conditional and never truly final.
@@tysonkrunek4132 Uuh... That's not exactly how the theory goes. Lightfall was a complete detour. It's story didn't exist past the idea of the Veil (or so the theory tends to go), but Bungie had to stretch out that single plot point over an entire expansion to give room to Strand and the development of what we now know to be the Dread and Prismatic. Lightfall isn't just the first half of TFS which got chopped off, and even then Nezarec is speculated to have been a dungeon boss who got bumped to raid once the decision was made to create Lightfall. So either way Conditional Finality is his weapon and thematically fits him best.
@@Spike2276 interesting that they had the paths of light in Root of Nightmares but introduced them to players in TFS. Seriously there was a lot of content that got shuffled one way or the other. I just thought the whole strand weapon in the strand expansion and prismatic shotgun in the prismatic expansion made sense because if you watch the making of vidoc they reference what looks like Mara Sov as a titan in Root of Nightmares looking armour holding a hammer of Sol in one hand and had a big claw of ice coming off their other hand. Their concept art for TFS looks more like RoN armour than anything and a guardian “dual wielding” light and darkness powers that match that shotgun make it seem like the two weapons as far as their models should have been in the opposite raids, like a shotgun named Euphony and a Strand linear named Conditional Finality. Even the omolon ornament for Conditional looks like it’s being copied off some Witness precursor architecture
@@tysonkrunek4132 Conditional Finality wouldn't be the first time Bungie introduced a gameplay mechanic or concept in a small scale in one expansion to expand upon it later. Even if Lightfall was completely planned from the start and it's story is what Bungie intended, it would still have been in development alongside TFS, so the people making Lightfall would know that the idea of mixing Light and Dark was there and could have added this one gun as both a tease, proof of concept, and test. Besides, Transcendence and Prismatic have nothing to do with Salvation's Edge mechanically or thematically, but Light and Dark and their interplay are the major thematic aspect of RoN. Conditional Finality may have been a gun intended for TFS' plot, but it seems to have been designed for Nezarec. Euphony doesn't appear to have any ties to Lightfall or RoN other than it's element happens to be Strand.
1:44 Tru dat! "Cognito (sic) ergo sum?" YEESH! I could hear Descartes spinning in his grave.... I prefer "Bibo ergo sum" myself. 12:10 I have always wondered if the glyphs in the Vow of the Disciple raid might also be a substitution cipher because of its cardinality: 27 glyphs is awfully close to 26 letters of the English alphabet. For example, how does the Pyramid language compare to Aurebesh from the Star Wars universe. (Why does Aurebesh have both "C" and "K"?) Could certain English digraphs like "SH" "CH" and "TH" be represented by a single glyph? Are there phonenes in English that are not used in th Dread language, and vice versa? Could the proper names (i.e. Savathun, and maybe Witness and Scorn too) in a hypothetical VotD cipher also function like Egyptian hieroglyphs for Proper names. That is, could some glyphs be phonemes, while the proper names be more like ideograms. The irony(?) of the Pyramid ships--which are actually tetrahedrons---having a linguistic connection to the Egyptian pyramids, the Rosetta Stone, and hieroglyphs....
We don't have dread writing (or not much?). Is it possible we should be *listening* for a Rosetta "sound"? Somewhere the language is speaking the euphony lore tab or something else identifiable?
To repeat a post I made on the raid-along stream Byf did, there is an irony to the Final Shape being compared to music, due to music being inherently imperfect thanks to human error.
the biggest hole I have is the dread language is most likely a brutalistic one. meant to be dense in information so as to be spoken quickly on the battlefeild. that would also mean, assuming the dread language is not an older repurposed language, it would not likely have the ability for the rather flowery prose shown in the text in Euphony's loretab due to not natively having the words for it. The Witness made this language for the dread, and the dread are a means to an end, they don't need flowery words or words for things like "Harp" or "Beautiful." why would a faction that was built scantly a year ago, that doesn't have a point to exist after the witness achieve its goal, have a need for prose and poetry?
The lore of Euphony, specifically the “Confidence Percentage” terms, begin to make more sense when read through the lens of Spacetime. It's possible that the [UNKNOWN] term is connected to [SINGULARITY], or [Black Hole]. This conclusion is based on the fact that a Black Hole can be defined as having 'Graceful Curves and Infinite Potential'. There's a chance that the [GOLDEN HARP] is a remark on [GRAVITATIONAL WAVES] describing the behavior of ripples in the fabric of spacetime. The term, or phrase, consisting of [BUTTRESSES] may be associated with the Event Horizons of a Binary Black Hole System, or in this case, perhaps the Traveler and Veil in Sol.
I do think that the lore tab is relevant, because its so obviously connected to this puzzle... But perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way. I don't think the percentages at the end are random; perhaps there is a pattern in them that could be deciphered, and in turn lead to a key. In other words, I wonder if this lore tab is the Rosetta Stone we've been looking for.
the missing letters are not an issue - in Polish, we usually use di-consonants to describe sounds that are usually using letters not present in Polish alfabet. "Q" is written "KW" or "KŁ" like in Latin "Quo vadis?" -> Polish "Kwo Wadis?" Latin has also a situation with several consonats, like "C", which can be read as "K" in "Currum" or "Ch" in "Censor" or "C" in "Cerebellum" The spoken language seems a bit constructed using Latin and some sort of Far Eastern language (I want to say Japanese/Korean) but I'm not a linguist either XD
The idea seems solid. Players from other nationalities should check their descriptions as well and than we could do a cross refference to see if there really are different kinds of meanings behind the words.
I think throughout echos we might get acess to new parts of the pale heart. I mean we still dont know where the dread that are left are. So while echos is happening maby we will get some dread story.
![The Final Shape Full Campaign (Legendary Solo) - All Missions, Dialogue & Cutscenes [Destiny 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/rMSyQzjYtHs/mqdefault.jpg)
Quick note! Aegis Mind has also made some recordings on their channel of the Tormentors from way back when and of the Dread generally. Dropping them here in case people are using them to sample some of the dialogue. ua-cam.com/video/nZn5SlW1_AU/v-deo.html ua-cam.com/video/iy3yiiaZ4sM/v-deo.html
What about the raid pin that bungie is selling? It looks like it could be some sort of cypher with all the hands in different positions and pointing to different runes/glyphs? Just a thought
@@irish3218 Sign language? 😊
@@nzdata5526 yes, but the hands are pointing to symbols specifically. Lol, witness sign language. I’m pretty sure I saw the “SuFi”
Maybe you need to aim with euphony to see something that's hidden
I . . . am sweating. I put that video together for fun. I shocked from the community response. Thank you so much for the shout out!
Hell yeah! I hope you keep it going bro
@3.14Naar you've done a pretty good job
Heey! the one in person!! you're a big catalyst for this one Naar. Your kind help is appreciated
Yooooo, well done
Let me know if you need a graphic design
Do note that the Witness speaks In the Dread Language in the Raid during the fight when performing attacks so that also may need deciphering
I hope the things it says are cool
@user-gk4qd8rw5w in the Witness's case it sounds like reverse speech or just very distorted Dread speak. In fact I do think some of it is just taken from the Subjugators just very distorted.
@@Deltadog55it would make sense that the dread, subjugators especially, would say similar things to Their Witness
Would the Dread language be any different from the Precursor's language? If so, I wonder at its origins. Is it cobbled together from the languages of the Cabal and Psions and Fallen? Is it adopted from a previously Finalized species, like the Lubraeans or Noesis?
@@christianyaerger1751 that's a good point. Maybe there's something in the pre-order physical edition that would help people with translations.
My mother is a linguist. She is in no way a gamer, but I'm trying to get her to help on this one.
Plot twist: She tells you that the language said that you need to stop playing the game for a while and go touch grass😂
@@brentgrisier1738 yeah, not what's going to happen. I'm an adult with a full time job. I spend maybe two hours a week on Destiny and my mother's main issue is the fact that she lives far away and we'd have to work on it online.
@goofyfurball7311 It's a joke. Also, I'm an adult with a full-time job as well, and I only get to play for about two hours if I'm not too tired. My mother still tells me to stop playing when I talk to her.
@@brentgrisier1738 that sucks. My father was that way. These days my mother prefers to let me ramble about Destiny lore stuff instead of telling me that fun is a waste of time. Wish she had figured that out 30 years ago, but better late than never, I guess
Thank you in advance Goofyfurballs mom.
“I’m not a linguist” Yeah I’m pretty sure you trying to speak the all too (in)famous Valus Ta’aurc intro dialogue in German during your GCX TSLAYP Raid-a-Thon told us that. But, Sir Byf, the Community has spoken. Lore Daddy can never rest XD
Do you happen to have a link for that?
Its just on his channel, shuffle around the TSLAYP series! @@Varro15
@@WDGabeit’s the last wish GCX video I believe
WOW what a callback, I still love that series 😂
This whole topic reminds me directly of the gradual efforts to translate the Phyrexian language from Magic The Gathering. It’s very complicated and doesn’t even use what we would consider an “alphabet”, but over time the community and linguists alike have been able to translate and understand it in a truly impressive way. My guess is this will be something similar with the Dread language, it’ll take a long time to figure out but it will be very satisfying as it’s pieced together.
(If you aren’t familiar with the topic, I recommend watching the last section of Rhystic Studies’ video on Phyrexia, it’s a wonderfully interesting delve into linguistics!)
Warframe has similar with people decoding the Corpus and Grineer languages. It's pretty rad.
I swear I heard a Subjugator say, "Per Audacia Ad Astra" when I was farming for some class items the other day.
Byf was the final shape all along
Take your meds, guardian.
BRO I WASN'T TRIPPING THEN
“Byf, The Lore Keeper”, commonly found patrolling the Impasse lol
@@MrTJCM6 Byf, taken from grimoires
Somebody, get the people from the Magic:The Gathering fandom in here, they translated and figured out parts of the phyrexian language from looking at the cards, for Cayde's sake!
We’re already on it
Warframe's nerd cohort translated Corpus, Orokin, and Grineer. I bet those same people are enjoying this latest challenge.
Don't we technically have a "Rosetta Stone" for Phyrexian, since those cards are printed in English as well?
yup
@@nicko9715 Sort of. They're transliterations of english text using the phyrexian script, but the cards are not actually translated into the phyrexian language.
The symbol that keeps popping up whenever the Witness or the Precursor civilization is visualized, the strange tree-like one that's subtely different everytime it pops up, there's something about it that makes me think that itself is a hieroglyph. I can't quite put my finger on what it is specifically, but i also can't shake the feeling that there's something to it.
The closest example I can think of is Zonai script from the game Outer Wilds. Highly recommend it, by the way, but the language has an unconventional sentence structure on top of alien language, with spiraling and branching thoughts off of the central idea and main message.
I do find it odd that we didn't get some idea as to what that symbol is or represents before The Witness died.
I was thinking the same thing. They are everywhere too. Even the resource nodes in the pale heart are the symbol.
I think it's a writing form. A central line representing a sentence or word with branching lines, arcs, circles, etc from it denoting sounds, syllables, etc.
@@VallornDeathblade that's where my thinking is, too.
@@MelancholicBodhisattva If that is the case, I think the raid might have given us a clue for the direction to read it with the symbol wall we use for red borders, bottom to top. Rhulk's Upended also filled bottom to top but that could just be "because video game"
As someone whos helped decode THREE dialects of dead Scala (kingdom hearts) a key fundament isnt more the written word, although that WOULD help, but ironically, subtitles and if possible, file names. There being a lore tab from Eulogy with a reference to pyramdian should NOT be overlooked as a contextual refernece. A litteral translation it is not.
Moreover, missing letters of less common characters is actually a good thing if its a 1:1, as written scala even now has us missing z, q, and one other letter that im forggeting off hand. The language is serviceable and we can facimilate those rare missing characters if need be due to having a treasure trove of data mined texture sheet characters.
The consistency requires cross references and all of this requires DETAILED texture matching
That one video where Byf opens up in Dread....
Now I'm hyped for that
Literally just got the exotic from the raid, I got off Destiny to see this video had been posted. What excellent timing
So I know I'm late to this but here's a few things I would consider when tackling this language problem:
If the different localizations have different percentages then use the language that has the highest percentage in order to use the language with the best translation.
The percentages at the end of euphony tell us the most accurate interpretation of the words/phrases. If the percentages aren't different then at least one of the languages would be the most accurate. For simplicity sake, it can be assumed to be English.
Since this "Rosetta stone" of a wall exists then it could be assumed that at least one other language was translated from the Dread's language. Maybe looking into different species that were turned into the Dread would help some or even other species that sided with The Witness or those that are prominent in the Pale Heart. Going off of this train of thought, I have doubt that one of the other languages was that of the Cabal since we already know how to translate that language, though it should not be ruled out.
As far as the recordings of the Dread, maybe translating them into phrases like "hey the guardian is over there!" or other battle phrases could help some. Probably the best bet would be starting with lightbearer, guardian, or other synonyms that are known to us and our enemy. Also finding out if the phonetics match any existing human language narrow down a best human language of best fit. Since they used a constructive language tool to model the Dread's language then looking at the parameters the tool uses could help too.
Last thing I can think of for the English version of the lore tab is that since we are given percentages of uncertain words then looking at synonyms in English or finding synonyms in other localized languages that were used could help with translation. Essentially working through the etymology of the words to find the best translation.
My final thing I can think of is trying to see who the speaker and audience is in this piece. The biggest clue I can find is that the language of the speaker has either a more sophisticated way of describing music or a more simple one. Maybe looking into musical terms and trying to dumb them down might lead to the conclusion of the translated word/phrase.
I see this as a linear algebra problem tied with a hint of probability. Looking into a probability distribution of letters/characters of different languages also wouldn't be a bad place to look either.
If only said wall was found.
Euphony's barrel? if it could even be called that is literally just the witness's hands/fingers.
I guess thats one way to turn a raid boss into a weapon.
The sights are a pair of thumbs, too.
"They kill gods for fun and turn them into guns for a meme."
If the dread language is meant to have a Rosetta Stone, maybe it’s written form is something akin to hieroglyphics? Kind of like the images associated with resonance *glyphs* from Vow and the campaign missions?
I actually took a language design class in college one year (not that this makes me an expert in any way. One of our "textbooks" was just the Klingon dictionary). One of the challenging things as a starting point is that the Dread language may not be constructed with an alphabet at all, so trying to pair up symbols (wherever they may be) to Roman lettering may not be possible. A symbol could be an entire word, or concept, as opposed to a letter. If you're looking at a symbol and can't determine if it's a word or a letter, you have no basis of understanding, and hearing the language phonetically doesn't contribute at all to understanding either written or spoken language, unless a native speaker is actually reading something aloud. It doesn't help that the lore tab on this Exotic does not provide an untranslated transcription of the text it's reciting. Now THAT would've been our Rosetta stone to at least understand the written portion.
As to why it hasn't been found in the game yet, at this point, it wouldn't surprise me if Bungie would add this "recessed wall" either in a new strike within the Pale Heart, or if they shadow add it in somewhere. It doesn't physically exist now, but it could in the future if Bungie decides to sneak it in.
Byf, sounding better put together than I have ever been in my entire personal and professional life: "I'm off script for a moment here, bear with me."
I didn't realize how badly I wanted a poster translating different random phrases/words across the various Destiny languages til now
I don’t know if this is related, but there is one moment regarding the Witness in the cutscenes where it confronts Zavala. After it shows Zavala how the creation process took place, you can see subtitles that say [Witness chants]. It sounds like the Witness says something like “sing to loss.” I’m positive it doesn’t actually say that specifically, but that’s how I heard it. You can also hear the Precursor’s chanting in the background during the cutscene, but I don’t think their chanting is intelligible at all.
But clearly Bungie meant it to mean something, for the Witness to chant this one unknown phrase. They wouldn’t make a subtitle for it if it wasn’t important, let alone have the Witness say such an enigmatic thing in the first place.
There’s more to this.
In the cutscene where Zavala sees the ritual that created the witness and where targe dies, the witness actually chants in another language. This is after the dissenter whispers into Zavala’s ear.
Pretty interesting and I think it’s the dread language or the normal language of the precursors? Perhaps that’s what the dread language is anyway, just precursor original language.
The dread could be speaking a newspeak version of the precursor language.
@@jacobnoelle8428thats what I was thinking too
Something to note for people searching for the wall in the strike, you don't need to go into the strike to look at the area, if you launch the Dissent mission you can turn around and walk throught the entire thing
I feel like this “wall” is going to be the next “15th wish” all over again
I’m not the only one am I ?
I saw the pi naar vid, I felt chills and hoped this was coming soon
YEEEEES IVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS VID!! Euphony is literally my fav gun at the moment!! Ive only had it a week and already got 2400 kills on it lol. Also, the fact that i outdamage still hunt hunters is CRAZY 😂
theory. the dread language is written in pictures (think the pictures that you have to select to access cave and solve the puzzles in the pale heart) ref 17:40. remember a good story rhymes with real life.
I agree that it is unlikely that there is a slab of stone somewhere we haven't found. Especially given how on the nose the Euphony lore tab is in terms of suggesting it.
As far as translating goes.... The thing that makes it the most difficult is that we only hear them in combat saying combat things. We don't get to see them outside of that. We don't get to listen to them speak around a dinner table or hear a pair of Dread speak about mundane day to day stuff.
Because despite the differences in our languages and cultures, language exists to facilitate social interactions between two or more beings that speak the same language. Combat is not exactly a "social" thing because it often results in one party being killed. So there isn't much there, and it's mostly just screams or single word statements.
But in conversation you can hear how diferent sounds play out. You could listen for repeated patterns. For example, if you heard the English word "Fighting" over and over again it isn't very useful. But if you heard the words fighting, running, healing, jumping, sleeping, combing, listening, hearing, and blinking.... you might start to notice a pattern of the "ing" suffix being present in all of them. You don't know what it means, or what those words mean, but you could reasonably deduce that the sound of "ing" is a suffix and not part of the base word or root word.
That kind of deduction will be extremely difficult given how little Dread language we can hear, and how limited the contexts we do hear it are.
As a reminder to all, report the bot comments when you see them.
Deciphering their language would be a great opportunity for you to make a discord. Add stuff similar to other creators discords, but also and places for lore discussion and maybe space for those working on the language. It would also be a cool place to poll or get ideas from your community to see what people want to see you cover.
It'd be kinda scary if the written language of the Dread was the tree looking glyphs we see at time.
Like the Stigma of the Witness
Wait.....The brackets IMMEDIATELY made me think of "Tesselation" the pre-order exotic. It's Description - "This [weapon|instrument|topology] adapts its damage type to match your equipped grenade. Final blows grant grenade energy." and "Consume your grenade to load a large [projectile|shape|language] that generates an elemental explosion on impact."
Could there be symbols or clues on the weapon?? Oh no I see a rabbit hole.
holy, youre so right
Love the video, hopefully some folks crack the code so we can get even more lore from the expansion.
Also, unrelated, I faced you in trials a few weeks ago and tried to show my excitement with emotes. Thought it might come off as rude once the match was done and wanted to let you know if some Warlock was trying to give your Ghost a hug, it was out of love! 😅
This would make figuring out the eliksni language sound simple back in D1, i once knew a friend who did a good impression on a fallen and it spooked me
I misread the title as “…or a Dread end” and I chuckled because it was clever than realized I was just being dyslexic
Theres a UA-camr by the name "Aegis Mind" that has uploaded the sfx for all of the Dread & the Witness, & based off that im unsure if the Dread share the same language as the Witness when It speaks in alt language or the whispers It does when heard from various instances/objects
The wall might be in the dual destiny mission. Could explain the 600 second timer you get after completing the mission.
So I get the vibe Euphony was meant to be our signature Disciple weapon had we joined The Witness akin to Lubrae's Ruin being Rhulk's signature weapon.
I feel like a Disciple would be Glaives of some sort, if not, then I could see it that way
@@mcch1cken473 I mainly say that because the colors and textures of Euphony are similar to the ones we see on Rhulk and Nezarec.
Look up Sarsion in the Cryptarchy also others in Venextron Discord were able to understand what languages were being used, but there was another realization thanks to Sarsion that it’s a mix indo-European and Latin.
Which gave him a thought about it being close to or slightly similar to the Eliksni language.
there is also some languages both in real life and fiction that are more conceptual languages the either have each word representing certain ideas or heavily dependent on context to get the proper meaning of any given text
My bet is on the blooming wall/door which leads to Zavala home that we opened in the campaign. there was a big glyph on it with many details
Given how little we hear the Dread actually speak (probably less than a hundred distinct audio lines) and the absolute lack of similarities due to it being an alien language, I'd guess the best bet is to crack it like how the German Enigma code was cracked in WWII, which was cracked because of an extremely common repeating phrase in a majority of intercepted transmissions (can't repeat it because UA-cam). For the Dread, I'd be interested in seeing if text lines from the various Disciples (especially Rhulk and Nezarec) could be repeated given the right context, especially if they relate to words or phrases like "Witness" or "Final Shape" or anything related to combat. In keeping with the Sword Logic, I'd imagine it's like a battle language from Dune, since the Dread were only made to fight for the Witness; the heavy syllables remind me of Denis Villeneuve's interpretation of Harknonnen, which was as brutally efficient as it was harsh on the ears.
It's interesting how many times language has connected to larger plot beats in Destiny in the past, namely with Oryx almost cutting his daughters' tongues out for not speaking the Imperial Tongue at one point in the Books of Sorrow regarding throne worlds, and also when first the Cabal and then the Shadow Legion reduced their language just to make tactical communications more efficient at the cost of soul, poetry, and nuance. Maybe since the Dread are mostly just twisted forms of existing enemies (rip Grim), bits of Hive or Psion language might help if they've been even partially cracked?
Idea. In the future we might have acess to some way to write the dread language in a dread activity and we could use our rough translations to find other info to perfect it
The opening mentioning 'marathon' multiple times has me wanting more info on Marathon. C'mon Bungo
The bits about the golden harp and references to music makes me wonder if there is any connection between the feed and the choral vex. The choral vex are all about music and these references have to mean something
15:09 i don’t know what it is about it but i find it somewhat scary that a being with the goal to basically end the universe as we know it has its own language and there is a word that even with the translation we are so unfamiliar with its concept we still don’t know what it means even after being translated, same goes for the phrases that have a >10% confidence accuracy to them.
I swear to the Light and Dark, Bungie specifically mentioned that the Dread Language is translatable for the sole purpose of giving the Lore Community a reason to not only keep playing every single day, but to have them run around the Pale Heart like headless chickens like we did in Taken King looking for Sleeper Simulant.
I think you need a special weapon scope to see the writing on the walls. I mean, wasent it a mechanic in a past event/senario? It wouldn't surprise me if that was added here as well.
When I first saw the live stream going over the language I went straight to work trying to find out what he says and the closest thing I could find was Latin granted it was finicky trying to find the right combo to get a phrase but what I eventually got was “I was born with a vow to live.”
The Doylist Explanation: I hate to be a spoilsport, but it’s entirely possible that this “Dread Language” is an old Bungie joke from the Halo Era they are maintaining. …as by pure coincidence, I’m sure, Halo Bungie also said Covenant Languages can be translated into English. Can they be? Not really, no. Some phrases could be found by reversing lines, but it was just used for the audio. There wasn’t a fully understandable language to be found. It’s entirely possible that this is another iteration of this troll. And if you think Bungie would never send us on a wild goose chase: Remember the D1 Kings Fall Basketball Court? Or “Complete Shattered Throne Solo on 999 Light”? Or the Original 15th Wish? Or Caydes Ramen Coupon? Or the Telesto Strange Changes? The community tried to discover a secret Bungie implied existed, but it never did.
On the more optimistic side, me and my friend swore we heard a Dread say *”Your Flesh is Weak.”* So the Dread are Cyborgs?
it does at least raise a perspective, the language could
be pig latin-ed or spoken backwards
FROM THE MOMENT I UNDERSTOOD THE WEAKNESS OF MY FLESH
On the other hand, eliksni **is** more or less translatable to something that makes sense in english (or at least in d1 it was) so who knows
Your flesh is weak sounds just like something Rhulk would say.
Wort wort wort! Wababa! Mombsi?
One of the subjugator lines continually sounds to me like, “your flesh is weak”.
This is making me wonder, if Euphony is updated to have a Catalyst, maybe we'll find that wall in the raid somewhere? Could be a Basketball Court of Oryx scenario but with more moving parts on how to find it, but that requires Euphony getting a Catalyst first, and a majority of our raid Exotics still have yet to get any
Didn't the developers once say there were still secrets in Vault of Glass/Black Garden that players still hadn't found?
I remember it being iconic D1 location, with the comment made during D2.
Listen I’m no one special when it comes to finding stuff but the two things that comes to mind is
1. Where we got ergo sum (as in the mission we load into to get it and not the witness battle field)
2. The darkness wall that Zavala goes into
“Perhaps the final shape is not silence, it is a symphony”
is just a fancier way of saying
“maybe the final shape were the friends we made along the way”
I think the Euphony lore is itself a clue for how the language is made. It could be telling us about how features like pitch accent or stress or vowel/consonant length is designed in the language. Considering the devs in Destiny are generally English-speaking, I doubt they went with something fully tonal like Mandarin.
16:33 don't these walls look like they show some sort of a pictographic language?
Maybe the text wall can only be read "In Darkness"....
Go look at the Fate's Intertwined Emblem, those symbols might be Dread text. I think there are more of those symbols across the game too. Also, what if the wall in Euphony is the Red Border wall in Salvation's Edge? Probably not, but it's worth a think I guess. There's also another wall sandwiched between the Red Border symbols that looks like red brick. Maybe that's important? Again, probably not. But it is worth a look, isn't it?
It'll take a couple of years to get some basics in translation and some kind of alphabet. It took a few years to translate the Na'vi language and also to figure out the Na'vi alphabet.
Oh this has a LOT of Potential. I think for sure though, this "Golden Harp" could be represented in-game by either Euphony itself, or perhaps Wish-Ender.
The thing about Euphony I'm interested is the interpretation that it may be talking about Resonant/Resonance, the unexplained Darkness element of the Witness and its Pyramid Ships. Which would make it one of the few pieces of law that might give insight into what the hell it *is.*
This may be an imaginary theory butttt when you start the last mission of the campaign, where you rally before taking out the tormentor. When you are standing in the corn fields just before it, look at the wall that you have to go towards to jump down and rally, there is a huge wall with a witness hand holding it up. For a good ways down the wall is a “jade glass wall” with a bunch of shapes and ticks and lines and circles. It reminds me of braille or Morse code. The reason why this sticks out to me is because of the lore tab from Euphony. The part specifically about “the following text was found recessed into a stone wall within the Pale Heart”. Plus this area sticks out way more simply because of the witness hand. There is also one almost identical on Euphony that holds the iron sights. Plus the green glass feels like a hint at Strand. Idk could be a huge stretch. Another theory is that in a recent video Byf did he mentioned that the witness loved music. Is there a way to have music as a language and associate it with each letter of the alphabet and then put that into Morse code…maybe braille? Idk hopefully anyone has some thoughts on this.
Spent hours hunting for that wall as
Soon as you mentioned it
The idea that as some letters are not present in Euphony's text meaning that some letters would be missing from the wall, is only accurate if bungie didn't create a conlang for the Dread, but instead created a cypher of English. So each English letter is replaced with a new symbol, each sound is replaced with a new one. Conlangs used in media have been way more advanced than this for a long time, often with modified or new alphabets which don't map to an existing language, a new grammar structure that is different to what the creator and viewers/players are used to. In the vidoc they mentioned creating grammar for the language which suggests that it's not just a cypher.
I did the same thing! I read the euophony lore tab and immediately went out to go find this wall and only found the exact same writing on those piller things! But to no avail :/ I hope it’s an actual physical wall with a way to decipher the language. If not I heard someone on Reddit say if you go back to the strikes or story mission of light fall where we first hear nezerac you can try and listen to his voices lines before and after putting on relic of nezerac to try and decipher the language that way
the dialect sounded familiar to me then i realized that it sounds EXTREMELY close to navi' from james camerons avatar. some sounds use the exact enunciation. i also remember a wall i saw in a part early in the beginning that had writing on the back of it ill look back to see if it is what i think it was now.
While no where near as complicated this reminds me of wen I was little trying to decode the unknown language in pokemon heart gold. Got a paper and pencil and started writing down all the letters to translate lol
[softer] ~ gentler.
[beingness] ~ existence.
[golden harp] ~ lyre.
[?UNKOWN?] ~ final shape/perfection.
[buttresses] ~ pillars.
[tuned] ~ harmonized.
[balance of distress] ~ equilibrium.
[rupture] ~ tear.
[vibration reverberates] ~ it echoes.
[atmosphere] ~ space.
[they crest then fade] ~ then subsides.
[plucked] ~ struck.
[sweet music] ~ Euphony.
[we are the hand that plucks] ~ the composers.
Also, isn’t this lore tab describing what happened to The Witness or just them.
I'm actually hesitant about it, but can it be that this text is the tree-like ornament on the map of the pale heart(the one near the raid and 12-men mission)? It seems to be too small and stylistically different from other pyramid-style ornaments, and missing many of the recurrent patterns of those. But weirder thing irl are actually readable words while looking like some pretty patterns(like kufic square script or ogham for example)
Has anyone looked for spectrograms in either Euphony's sound effects or any of the music tracks? The lore tab spends a lot of time talking about wavelengths.
That gets me wondering. The lore tab describes a golden harp, and further focuses into it with other verbage like "tightened" and "tuned."
Makes me think about maybe taking your approach to any stringed instrument music, motifs, or environmental noises wherever they might exist in the game.
Since that vidoc and the revelation we'd return to the Dreadnaught in Heresy, I've been wondering if the Dread language (written) isn't connected to the writing on the shrine in the Cathedral of Dusk. Those glyphs are even resonance colored
Could it be the rest of the stone wall at the beginning of the raid for the red border chest, since we only use the third column for the actual puzzles?
I don‘t think we‘ll find a wall with actual words, rather there could be a wall with pictures that show the words we know and what those words are like in the Dread-language;
imagine seeing a Blade on the left side (where the true meaning is) and then a chicken on the right side (because the Dread word for „Blade“ sounds like „Chiken“); and then we have to match our knowledge from the wall with the ingame dialogue..
I wonder if the translation accuracy percentages are marked differently in other languages?
I don't know if this has been proposed yet (and if it has, sorry for wasting time), but we may need to, perhaps, use a weapon's sights to look at every single wall within the pale heart, maybe it could give us some sort of vision we normally wouldn't have. Or maybe we need something like Taken vision (like that one mission we can see platforms and stuff)
Also go watch the guy speak on stream and see if there are subtitles or if he mentions what he said. I’m talking about the dlc stream where the guy speaks the dread language.
In enigma protocol could the room with all the random human objects encased in bubbles be a sign they’ve started to worship us after the witness’s death?
With that point Byf made about the language being differently translated between languages, has anyone read Euphony in multiple languages and confirmed if the lore tab is actually translated the same or not, like is "Golden Harp" in English still "Golden Harp" in French etc.
What if some of the dread lines are speaking phrases from that stone wall, if some of their lines line up with the phrases at the end in the lore tab then we might be able to start there.
It feels like the weapons from Salvations Edge and Root of Nightmares were switched.
Conditional Finality has its spirit in transcendence and Eupony is a strand weapon. If you swapped the lore tabs the weapons would make more sense
Conditional Finality is a weapon perfectly representing Nezarec's rebirth. He was only brought back because of the way Light of the Traveler's beam interacted with the Darkness in the Witness' pyramid. During the raid we enter DPS when either Light or Darkness reject him. And he is immortal, said to be able to come back potentially even from the death we handed to him during the raid, thus his finality is only ever conditional and never truly final.
@@Spike2276 you do know lightfall and TFS were supposed to be one package that was just too huge
@@tysonkrunek4132 Uuh... That's not exactly how the theory goes.
Lightfall was a complete detour. It's story didn't exist past the idea of the Veil (or so the theory tends to go), but Bungie had to stretch out that single plot point over an entire expansion to give room to Strand and the development of what we now know to be the Dread and Prismatic. Lightfall isn't just the first half of TFS which got chopped off, and even then Nezarec is speculated to have been a dungeon boss who got bumped to raid once the decision was made to create Lightfall. So either way Conditional Finality is his weapon and thematically fits him best.
@@Spike2276 interesting that they had the paths of light in Root of Nightmares but introduced them to players in TFS. Seriously there was a lot of content that got shuffled one way or the other. I just thought the whole strand weapon in the strand expansion and prismatic shotgun in the prismatic expansion made sense because if you watch the making of vidoc they reference what looks like Mara Sov as a titan in Root of Nightmares looking armour holding a hammer of Sol in one hand and had a big claw of ice coming off their other hand. Their concept art for TFS looks more like RoN armour than anything and a guardian “dual wielding” light and darkness powers that match that shotgun make it seem like the two weapons as far as their models should have been in the opposite raids, like a shotgun named Euphony and a Strand linear named Conditional Finality. Even the omolon ornament for Conditional looks like it’s being copied off some Witness precursor architecture
@@tysonkrunek4132 Conditional Finality wouldn't be the first time Bungie introduced a gameplay mechanic or concept in a small scale in one expansion to expand upon it later. Even if Lightfall was completely planned from the start and it's story is what Bungie intended, it would still have been in development alongside TFS, so the people making Lightfall would know that the idea of mixing Light and Dark was there and could have added this one gun as both a tease, proof of concept, and test.
Besides, Transcendence and Prismatic have nothing to do with Salvation's Edge mechanically or thematically, but Light and Dark and their interplay are the major thematic aspect of RoN.
Conditional Finality may have been a gun intended for TFS' plot, but it seems to have been designed for Nezarec. Euphony doesn't appear to have any ties to Lightfall or RoN other than it's element happens to be Strand.
1:44 Tru dat! "Cognito (sic) ergo sum?" YEESH! I could hear Descartes spinning in his grave.... I prefer "Bibo ergo sum" myself.
12:10 I have always wondered if the glyphs in the Vow of the Disciple raid might also be a substitution cipher because of its cardinality: 27 glyphs is awfully close to 26 letters of the English alphabet.
For example, how does the Pyramid language compare to Aurebesh from the Star Wars universe. (Why does Aurebesh have both "C" and "K"?) Could certain English digraphs like "SH" "CH" and "TH" be represented by a single glyph? Are there phonenes in English that are not used in th Dread language, and vice versa?
Could the proper names (i.e. Savathun, and maybe Witness and Scorn too) in a hypothetical VotD cipher also function like Egyptian hieroglyphs for Proper names. That is, could some glyphs be phonemes, while the proper names be more like ideograms.
The irony(?) of the Pyramid ships--which are actually tetrahedrons---having a linguistic connection to the Egyptian pyramids, the Rosetta Stone, and hieroglyphs....
To understand written Dread, we'd need to find the wall.
To understand spoken Dread, we'd need someone to read it to us.
Cant wait for our answers to be datamined somehow
We don't have dread writing (or not much?). Is it possible we should be *listening* for a Rosetta "sound"? Somewhere the language is speaking the euphony lore tab or something else identifiable?
Maybe its on the lore tabs. We see parentheses and brackets used in them often enough, so check those maybe?
To repeat a post I made on the raid-along stream Byf did, there is an irony to the Final Shape being compared to music, due to music being inherently imperfect thanks to human error.
the biggest hole I have is the dread language is most likely a brutalistic one. meant to be dense in information so as to be spoken quickly on the battlefeild. that would also mean, assuming the dread language is not an older repurposed language, it would not likely have the ability for the rather flowery prose shown in the text in Euphony's loretab due to not natively having the words for it. The Witness made this language for the dread, and the dread are a means to an end, they don't need flowery words or words for things like "Harp" or "Beautiful."
why would a faction that was built scantly a year ago, that doesn't have a point to exist after the witness achieve its goal, have a need for prose and poetry?
You’re a good man Byf.
The lore of Euphony, specifically the “Confidence Percentage” terms, begin to make more sense when read through the lens of Spacetime. It's possible that the [UNKNOWN] term is connected to [SINGULARITY], or [Black Hole]. This conclusion is based on the fact that a Black Hole can be defined as having 'Graceful Curves and Infinite Potential'.
There's a chance that the [GOLDEN HARP] is a remark on [GRAVITATIONAL WAVES] describing the behavior of ripples in the fabric of spacetime.
The term, or phrase, consisting of [BUTTRESSES] may be associated with the Event Horizons of a Binary Black Hole System, or in this case, perhaps the Traveler and Veil in Sol.
It would be wild if the Dread language is the Percursor's original language.
If you take all the numbers from the lore tab you will have two sets of coordinates, they're random but that's anyways another angle to look at
Duc and Jay solved the Dread’s language eons ago
Indeed me and Jay did (in venextrons discord btw)
I do think that the lore tab is relevant, because its so obviously connected to this puzzle... But perhaps we're looking at it the wrong way. I don't think the percentages at the end are random; perhaps there is a pattern in them that could be deciphered, and in turn lead to a key. In other words, I wonder if this lore tab is the Rosetta Stone we've been looking for.
What is that arc auto rifle you’re using? Looks cool as hell
Just realized that euphony looks like the witnesses fingers.
I’m going to laugh my ass off of what the dread say are just blank threats “my dad is the witness” moment
the missing letters are not an issue - in Polish, we usually use di-consonants to describe sounds that are usually using letters not present in Polish alfabet.
"Q" is written "KW" or "KŁ" like in Latin "Quo vadis?" -> Polish "Kwo Wadis?"
Latin has also a situation with several consonats, like "C", which can be read as "K" in "Currum" or "Ch" in "Censor" or "C" in "Cerebellum"
The spoken language seems a bit constructed using Latin and some sort of Far Eastern language (I want to say Japanese/Korean) but I'm not a linguist either XD
You can glitch in this area(strike area), I'll end up going in tonight and look around.
The idea seems solid. Players from other nationalities should check their descriptions as well and than we could do a cross refference to see if there really are different kinds of meanings behind the words.
I think throughout echos we might get acess to new parts of the pale heart. I mean we still dont know where the dread that are left are. So while echos is happening maby we will get some dread story.
There may be something within dual destiny. Possibly maybe the final area. The amount of time we have there must mean something.