The WEIRDEST Role in League and Dota
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- Опубліковано 8 тра 2024
- League's Toplaner and Dota's Offlaner have the most interesting dichotomy when comparing roles between the two games, with one being the most-team-oriented role while the other being the polar opposite--despite being in the same lane. Join me in this video as we explore why this is--as well a s other key differences between the two roles!
- Ігри
1 plese pin me
Eh fuck it, why not
You pin me!! Love you bro
It feels nice to find a clearly passionate and capable content creator while they're still tiny and growing.
What I'm saying, like I've been looking for an in depth comparison between the two MOBAs and not one satisfies me
I’ve been listening to his videos while driving in my car and it’s nice that I can follow along without even needing the video. Shows the quality of the content
Offlaners are balls to walls masochist and they are not afraid to exchange hands from multiple hands
They crave the challenge of the enemy pos 1 that thinks he can take em.
@@okupant880 oh no, they know they cant take pos 1 they just wanted some fisticuffs while the carry comes with a steel chair
Offlaners constantly throwing hands is true
Feeding is space. It is fine.
That might be true from 2014-2016, now not so much
You forgot to mention ksante, the tank bruiser skirmisher fighter diver split pusher top laner
you forgot assassin too, a tank that leaves your team to isolate the carry XD
@@arvintob how could i forget? Curses, cuz nothing says assassin more than dmg scaling with armor items
I actually had him in my first draft! I decided to leave him out though because at that point I would just be ranting about him lmao he already took the Thumbnail role in my other video
@@Acex2ron you should also make a video about cancer heroes like Teemo, Yuumi, yasuo/yone teamates because when they're your opponent's they're usually godlike and their dota hero cancers
this is K'Sante👤4,700 HP💪329 Armor🤷♂201 MR💦 Unstoppable🚫A Shield 🛡 Goes over walls🧱Has Airborne🌪Cooldown is only☝second too🕐 It costs 15 Mana🧙♂
Lol's Toplane is a problem the enemy Toplaner has to deal with, while Dota's Offlaner is a problem the entire enemy team has to deal with
This is the best way to put it!
In league that changes when a splitpush champ gets his core items. Those champs are designed to win 1v1s so their win condition is to always be opposite of whatever objective your team wants.
If the enemy team wants to contest your push, they need to commit at least two players, making the objective fight a 4v3 in your favour. If they want to contest the objective, you take two towers and come back to lane with an extra item and possibly even kill an inhibitor.
@@MattHatter360 Then there's a few champs that can hold a splitpusher 1v1. My team doesn't need to care about for example a lategame Urgot with hullbreaker because i will just bait his E, fling him and go proxy him neutralizing all his pressure and potentially even gaining tempo to group in a 5v4. Applies for most of them, except a good Fiora. I can't stop that shit.
the one time I played sk, bullied the drow carry out of lane, and proceeded to steamroll the entire enemy team, so bad to the point that they went 1v3 on me, and died as a result. I was basically a boogieman in that entire game. I think I had someone outright say that the carry kept complaining about vision because I was so threatening that they wanted to keep tabs on me the entire game.
depends on the toplane but generally yes, JG fits more of the "entire enemy team has to deal with" since toplaners generally play around with teleport CD's and objective fights in playstyle
In solo Queue, toplane mentality is all other lanes dont exist XD
It would have been worth mentioning that League's map is symmetrical instead of inversed like DotA's. That's why DotA has asymmetrical positions while League has symmetrical roles.
Shout outs to previous incarnation of the offlane, aka the suicide lane where you went 1v3 vs the enemy teams pos 1, pos 4, and pos 5. Suicide Timbersaw my beloved
I get lucky everytime a team does that strat because everytime they do that strat, I pick a masochist hero, like Axe, Spectre and Timbersaw lol
Good stuff, suicide lane was one hell of a journey.
thank god suicide lane wasnt effective anymore, even after the mid space my tram created i only got like 1 or 2 max big item for the late game xddd
I loved playing with my stack as pos 5 and zoning a fucking timber to be lvl 1 at minute 5. Granted, i was also lvl 1, but at that point who really cares.
And then iron talon shows up...
Tmw you have to carve a spot in the trees just to get some meager XP while the enemies try their best to deny your EXP. Or intentionally diving and dying to ruin the creeps equilibrium. Or going deep behind enemies tier 2 to creep cut and drag them on a journey towards your jungle/tower. Or stack ancients/jungles that might get stolen anyway. You dont lane to win, you lane to get what you can get.
Good God, I don't have anything good to say about that role other than teaching me the meaning of radical acceptance.
I'm just reminded of one of Pokerick's league matches I saw a while ago. Yorick vs Sion toplane. Yorick's team FF'd at 15 minutes with both toplaners going 0/0/0 with no towers lost and not seeing a single gank from their respective teammates. Truly the most toplane game of all time.
Fundamentals mentioned, Alois would be proud
Fundamentos ☝️🤓
Just a small correction: if you are losing as a toplaner, your job isn't "sit in tower and defend it" because that basically allows enemy to get free map pressure and possibly roam or invade.
If you are losing as a toplaner, your job is to crash your wave on enemy tower at any cost and force enemies to deal with you because that's how you actually get to be useful.
Yes, you can actually ignore your team forever if you can generate pressure and attract enemies to you forever.
And then you get perma ganked because you are behind, weaker, and kayn can go through walls 🙃
fellow baus viewer.
Probably more like it depends on what type of losing and what the enemies are trying to do
"Your job as a top-laner is to turbo-int"-type comment.
Wrong ranged top laners exist to show to the world the sins of humanity
Please consider making a video on what is considered Overpowered in League vs. Dota 2. That should be a fun video.
I love there finally being a creator who actually plays both mobas and can describe differences, pros/cons, etc. Glad I stumbled on these videos!
There is also TZAR_POTATO
@@KitsuneFaroe Ohh I'll check him out thanks!
@@KitsuneFaroe He's more of a Dota guy and I honestly want to hear more from someone that's leaning a bit more on League(even if I don't play it)like Ace here. Tzar does make excellent beginner Dota guides from people coming from League though.
love the 3ddy shoutout lol. Top lane in league of legends has always felt the closest to playing neutral in a fighting game.
It's like playing Smash with Stage Hazards and Items on. You're in a 1v1, but there's sometimes some random event that messes things over.
playing against a semi-competent Vayne top as urgot honest to god feels like playing against arslan's azucena on release.
As a player who mains offlane, it's really fun to bully the enemy carry until they don't have any choice but move to the jungle and solo farming while their team in other lane is getting massacred
only to find out that your pos1 has been bullied harder by the enemy offlaner LMFAO
@@Cricket0021 why must you hurt me this way
@@Cricket0021 It's like we are racing to deal mental damage to each other's cripplied child.
I think the idea that toplane is basically restricted to just pushing lane all game is incorrect due to the summoner spell teleport. You may not group down mid with the rest of your team but you're always there for objectives. Infact I'd argue top lane is one of the most map interactive roles due to this and champs like shen and pantheon, one well timed teleport can easily win the game
not before 14 minutes anymore. thanks bot laners!!!
Yeah, i found it quite frustrating that this was never mentioned. Heck you dont even really need tp due to how small the map is, walking down the river is usually more than enough. If a support can find time to roam all the way to top lane, then a top laner can find time to roam to mid or even drag. Im not saying its a common occurrence, but not unusual either.
@@cap-ml7kybut bro a support doesn't have to farm and will not fall behind for the rest of the game by missing 2 waves, not a fair compatison at all
@@viktorgombos4975 it is, roaming support leaves his ADC at mercy of enemy support and ADC. All alone and defenseless, since ADCs at early game are usually rather weak by themselves, they need items to start posing a threat. And if enemy ADC/Support composition are someone ultra aggressive, like for example Leona/Samira, your one roam can not only cost your ADC those two waves but his life as well.
@@viktorgombos4975 Thats not how u roam in the game. You ALWAYS slow push and then let the wave crash into the enemy tower which gives you time to roam. This is why I got frustrated with the video, cause he just spouts memes and stereotypes of the role.
If anything, you must look at the map and leave lane when split pushing, cause otherwise the enemy will just gank you if you just stay in top lane.
The other guy is wrong, you should never abandon your adc, always crash the wave before you roam. There are exceptions, but its really complicated.
I'd argue that AdmiralBulldog was THE one player who revolutionized offlane. He created the rat meta which was a HUGE problem in TI3.
I thought of him! Which is why I included "Modern" Dota. But then again, we wouldn't be where we are if not for AdmiralBulldog--the man who singlehandedly got split pushing as a playstyle almost completely removed from the game due to the glyph changes.
Woah, i was just found your channel and then this comes out so i have something to watch on my break :D
Aw thanks! Hope you like the vid/s
i think DoTA's specialist is Bristleback, fits the description perfectly, runs around and can still kill an entire team
darkseer and batrider kinda play the same
@@icet2113Yeah, but BB's the one who truly embodies the run around and do shit playstyle.
Darkseer and Batrider at least have Surge and Lasso in addition. Bristleback's main source of damage output is getting hit anywhere but Infront and having the items to keep him there as long as possible.
I love getting jumped as BB and just activate crimson, and blademail while having aesetics cap neutral item, heart,eternal shroud, strength blink and heavens halberd. Unkillable and can only be dealt with by pushing me away with spells. Getting rampages from the enemy trying to push a solo BB over and over. To add insult to injury, NO BKB NEEDED "gg ez"
@@Surreal96792 Me when my team didn't pick Viper or bought a Silver Edge(I'm Shadow Shaman trying to hold BB in place):
@@eagleye2893 your hex can break passives at level 20, but still, REAL.
Well, Offlane, also known as Pos 3 role, what a weird place for all kinds of heroes in Dota. If only you could knew how many devious strategies a cunning mind can create for offlane you would be squashed by the numbers itself. But jokes aside, there are really a lot of ways offlane can be played depending on meta and current team comp. And I love this role for that, it promotes active play but leaves a place to farm, you aren't designed to be poor and you need to do stuff on the map, that's the beauty of current offlane role and thank god the old style of solo offlane against enemy's trilane went into history, it's not fun to smell exp under your tower and that's all you can do.
What didn't actually make the final cut for this video is me talking about how Offlane is a role that has been heavily impacted by "meta" over the years. We've seen Splitpush (NP, Beastmaster), Deathball (Aura Stackers, Wraith Pact), Big Teamfight (Tide, Enigma, Offlane Void), and now we're in the age of Greed.
@@Acex2ron and for past I dunno… 5 years it’s quite impactful and interesting role
@@Acex2ronThe politically correct term is 'maximum gold efficiency'. 'Greed' is considered an insentive slur, especially when used by disinterested external parties. Thank you. /s
On a more serious note, I think the bigger impact, in terms of the pro scene, has been the draft structure and widening hero pools - flex picking is very _very_ useful now, and given that there exists enough farm on the map to support a gold-intensive offlaner, sometimes it's worth it to pick a greedy hero to get a good lane matchup and set youself up to take farm from the enemy side of the map. It's what WK and BB did as 3s when they were in the meta - and we've now arrived at the stage when players with the ability of Malrine will play Doom mid and sacrifice their game to ensure that the side lanes of skiter and ATF develop into unassailable win conditions.
It took me way too long to realize you meant Position 3 instead of Piece of Shit #3 lmao
@@JustAJauneArc to write position every time would be too long so we shorten it.
Wtf I was wondering why Waltzing Matilda was playing in the background. It was the Australian Civ 6 music. Great video btw love your series of the differences but similarities between these MOBA giants
One of my personal favorite tracks from the game! And it's fitting, given the history behind the song and how it paints the Australian people, and the toughness and tenacity you need to play these roles!
It's honestly really interesting to see a proper comparison between aspects of League and DOTA as someone who doesn't play the latter. Nice vid
the simplest way to describe Suicide Sion is it forces a 1 for 1. the Sion gets minions and Tower Gold. while his opponent get kill gold.
but eventually that kill gold becomes 100 (down from 300 after 5~6 deaths in a row) and minion gold keeps going up.
the one "downside" of this is that this gives their opponent an equal amount of gold. but this becomes an non-issue very fast because
1) if they leave lane, to use their gold lead, you just push into base and win
2) due to the high gold values both of you have earned, it's unlikely anyone else on the enemy team can stop you
3) meaning Top has to stop you. you have effectively turned the game into a 4v4 where top doesn't exist... or
4) the enemy teams gets fed up with you and sends 2~3 people to get you on the grey screen as long as possible... but
5) if your team is good, the moment they send extra people top. your team can 4v3 or 4v2. taking something, while they just get 100 gold from you
Darkseer is the specialist on Dota. But its not about just playing 1 style but about being so good on the game and the hero you can have 3 different style. You can play as team fighter with dagger + shiva. Or you can bully the pos 1 with aghs and you can also split push with helm dom.
as an offlaner main...i made it my life mission to bully and ruin hard carry in laning stage as much as possible
but trust me, those offlane main players are probably the most chill player in the team..they used to the pressure of 1v2 matchups nothing can faze them
offlaners are the most chill type of carry players. mid and pos 1 are mostly crybabies.
Hey man, this is a great video but i think a visual of the runes and spells would have been great to go alongside the league top explanation
The tank classification... Funny, I've played a lot more LoL and D&D, but I've always seen the term more in line with the D&D idea. I always alugh a little when LoL players complain about "tanks doing too much dmg", since the specific word was chosen to represent hard to kill AND hard-hitting classes. The better term in LoL maybe would be "Wall", since part of the indentity is to stay in the way of the enemy dmg dealers.
P.S: I hate how people use "nuke" in Dota2, mainly in the promotion materials. "High dmg single target nuke" is sucha stupid descripition. D&D players called the Fireball a nuke cuz the high dmg and area of effect, so any nuke ability NEEDS to have both to deserve the name "nuke".
alot of late game top lane in higher elos and especially pro play will push a sidelane always, but they usually make it the one that the next major objective is by, this way they can push wave rotate to team fight if need be
As a teemo main top player, i have a correction to make: my win condition is making the enemy laner rage quit, or make the laning phase so stressful that they unintentionally feed.
Spamming emotes, and calmly responding to the messages in chat helps too XD
14:30 MY GUY DID YOU JUST FORGET ABOUT CHEN???? like the only hero that literally has a zoo running next to him? as chen main i will never forget this betrayal! 😢
Offlane chen? My god...
@@KickKnete Have mercy...
And this report right here.
Chen isn’t an offlaner lmao
@@Acex2ron i know what we must do then, well have to gather the strongest dota meme builders for this to work. Chen is going to the OFFLANE!
20:15 This situation is so infuriating, cause your jungler was there, in a perfect position for a gank, but instead he just clears his topside jungle. The amount of times this happens to me is just insane.
I remember playing mundo or cho'gath and just staying top lane 90% of the game.
And then just never dieing... fun times.
Somehow less solitaire gaming than nasus and singed
Awesome videos. Keep it up.
Underlord (and to some extent Tidehunter) could count as tanks in Dota. They don't jump in to create chaos (with the exception of ravage) but are instead able to just sit between their and the enemy team, soaking everything through built in damage reduction and aura items
It's really interesting how similar Top Lane in competitive League appears to be to Offrole Dota while SoloQ Top Lane is widely different to both.
If you look at competitive League, especially in recent play, Offrole and Top laner are actually very, very similar - down to the way that the meta shifts from tank to carry quite often depending on how much a team needs map pressure or what is in meta depending on items/champ nerfs and buffs.
Teams are legit picking Senna ADC and then a farming tank top and bot and just sending Senna with the tank to either shut down a hyper carry top laner or lane 'normally' bot. Along with Top Laners roaming consistently and pressuing sidelanes 24/7 to enable mid+adc.
We already started seeing support + melee bruiser early combos in this lane swap meta.
Though one of the things that I believe influence League's meta is the unwillingness either team has to submit their carry to an unfavorable matchup willingly. Hence why we've starting seeing lane swaps as an answer to an ADC wanting to play Jinx into Kalista. Rather than risk Jinx becoming useless, you just put her top where she can easily space the enemy top laner if she has the support by her side.
I had a tank roll once, it had too much cinnamon.
There is one hero in the offlane that can be considered sort of a tank, Bristleback, he doesn't have a stun, he just builds items to soak up damage and drag attention, also Death Prophet and Necrophos are very similar, but of course I wholeheartedly agree there is no tank role, yet situationally some heroes can do that and I thought it was worth mentioning.
A League player's mind cannot comprehend why wolves need no armor
Funny story, I main play top now for one reason, Gangplank, specifically the "Bankplank" strat.
Basically I just farm, because my Q passive is that everytime I kill something with it, I gain +1 gold. Pair that the item "Cull" which also give +1 gold for every minion kill and it give you +400g after you kill 100 minions. Not done yet, I also bring the keystone "First Strike" which deal extra dmg on my first hit on the enemy which also give me some gold and the more I damage the enemy champ while its active. I GET MORE. And finally is the rune "Cash Back", it give me back 6% of the gold when I buy a complete item. This strat is not new but it is crazy effective. It allows me to stack up money in early game so I can get the items neccesary to oneshot the minions wave with my abiltiies which also mean more money.
I don't need to care if the enemy laner is fed or not, as long as I'm ahead of him 20-30 minions score. I win. A lot of times I died and they have like 3-4 kills, they proceed to get their first item. But when mid game comes I just "out items" them, because I been stacking so much money and because of said items it help me farm even faster = more money.
At this point the enemy top laner have two choices.
1. Go help their team and let me solo push their lane till there's nothing
2. Stay and try to fight me but leaving their team with no carry/tank
Either way they choose, I win regardless of what they choose
So I like playing this strat, since it's just farming and pushing turrets, honestly unless the enemy team decided to collapse on me multiple time. There isn't much fighting for me if it were, usually it ended pretty quickly for me as at that point I'm crazy strong
as a earthshaker/axe pos 3 player i love bullying the enemy hard carries, its fun. Also viper and razor counts as range offlane/tanks via magic resist and slow ( viper ) or damage steal and armor reduction ( razor ).
Always group for drakes/barons tho (except maybe the first two drakes). Outside of that, you're expected to be the side laner. But it's important to TP to help your team in lol. This can be ignored in some games because you're just trying to push. But what usually happens is: 1 top laner starts pushing at an opposite side of the map of the current objective, enemy top responds, original pusher then tps in the fight, and then the other guy follows.
I am usually an offlane main, but have been playing a lot of mid and some safe lane as of late, and pos 4 if we play as a 5-stack, but I'm still the best in offlane. Sometimes it's insane how metas can completely change the role by just changing stats on a single item, like a blink-initiation meta went to a zoo meta, that into resist meta, then back to zoo, then weird off lane picks with Mage Slayer. That all basically within 2 years. Especially since Harpoon got added as an alternative to Blink Dagger, most of my offlane hero pool got nerfed and out of meta since I mostly played blink-initiators.
I absolutely love bullying the shit out of my enemies if I can. Yesterday, I got to play offlane with a 5-stack with higher ranks and got my earliest Blink Dagger ever at 10 min, even Vanguard included before that. This is the ultimate non-stop bullying role.
DotA has tons of specialists, the least niche ones would be Enchantress, Weaver, Wind Ranger etc. These are squishy heroes but their kit allows them to escape. You also have extremely niche cases like Anti-Mage and Slark, however these two also have the added pressure that if they don't win, they'll get 4 reports after the game
I play lethality Yorick top, I’m never alone when I have maiden it really feels like a 2v1
I wouldn't say that Ammar was the first one to do so, you have had many other offlaners go damage dealing builds, however Ammar went to extreme and he picked the heroes that made more sense to do so, like Razor and Mars. However, the draft needs stuns to control the enemy team. You can't really do the same for Axe or Dark Seer, where they are most proficient with using their own spells without needing to invest in attack damage.
Great video too. But I just love in DotA, how a simple item as blink dagger can make a hero, who in LoL seems like a tank, bring complete and utter chaos to the backline.
The greedy, scaling offlane has been in the game way before ATF even broke through the pro-scene.
AdmiralBulldog, Jabz, Nightfall, Ramzes666 all specialized in it.
Zai, Saberlight, Ace, 33, old Eleven all fill the role comfortably when needed.
Maybe next content you can explain every meta gameplay from both game like the difference they played every patched and meta
Interesting idea, but I have something cooking as a follow-up to this series :) Keep your eyes peeled
@@Acex2ron I hope it's more moba comparisons. I love League and Dota because they are the most complex ones, but I'd be curious to have some comparisons with HotS or even Smite.
@@Acex2ron give you a head start, 2015 worlds was bruiser meta, 2017 worlds was ardent censer meta, 2018 was 200 years
Waltzing Matilda caught me so far off guard but it was really welcome.
I prefered the 2017 style of dota leaning, with 1 1 3 setup. The offlaner was basically a guy that was supposed to survive and not feed too much. But because this meta didn't last too long, pub players could not get used to it and they allowed me as the offlaner to stand too close to the creeps, giving me a solo vs 3 level advantage. My timbersaw was such a menace back then. By 10 minutes I could easily solo all 3 of the enemy laners. Good times.
Dota Toplane: I am the most versatile Role in the game.
League Toplane: Turrets 🗿
Binged all the content on this channel and now gotta wait for more vids, feelsbad
BASED civ6 background music
9:21 yep, truer words have never been spoken.
I'm an offlaner main ever since the dreaded suicide lanes were a thing, when the offlaner played 1v3. It was THE hardcore role then. I loved what the offlane heroes offered but most of the time you were heavily handicapped and coudn't reach your potential. Offlaners right now are absolutely spoiled by having a support and honestly when my support is really bad I usually just tell him to go play trilane as I know how to play 1v2 and it works out way better than by giving the enemy carry free kills in addition to farm. In addition I love just running into the enemy team and making them kill themselves on me as bristle, timbersaw, axe and legion. Funnily enough I used to be a top main in league back when Darius came out. I mained him and frequently 1v9d after winning my lane. However I do not like the new darius that much and by new I mean the delay on his Q. With the tons of mobility in league it's just annoying having a delay like that, especially after you've been using instant Qs back in the day. That's why I moved onto other roles in league over the years but last year, after getting hardstuck, I got so mad, I switched back up to top and actually climbed, although with cheap champs like Illaoi and Malphite which were absolutely broken but I do not regret it as I was getting really frustrated trying to carry as ADC or jungle with no team backup. Toplaner IS the 1v9 role in league.
And one more thing when it comes to ranged offlaners, I play alot of viper offlane and he's got some disgusting bully potential and he's extremely tanky especially against heavy magic damage comps. In addition you can play him as the "tank" role you mentioned does not exist. You build things like blademail, shivas and SnY or SnK and the enemies kill themeselves upon you while you just stand there, breaking them, and slowing them. I recently won an offlane viper game agianst a farmed PA with rapiers by having her kill herself on my blademail because she thought I was just a ranged damage dealer. As straight forward as he is I think Viper is incredibly good as an offlaner flex.
goated video for mentioning Ammar.
i love that guy
My fav roles are pos 2,3,and 4 because i just love ganking enemy safe lane 😂
One of the reasons I have enjoyed rammus proxy top I can die as long as its well timed and draws pressure. Pull in the jungler hopefully mid, usually tell jung to leave me alone and get all the drags gank bot I will worry about herald.
Dota 2: Overpowered sand king aghs
IceFrog: Let's nerf CM
Icefrog is afraid of CMs lvl 1 powerspike
I have so many anecdotes with that aghs, I actually would have a solo rampage if my rng was nice for once and spined the pos 1 carry, once. sadly I wasn't so I cleared 2, and the team had to cleanup the rest.
Its a tradition at this point
Most offlane in dota can become beefy, thanks to their HP gain and built-in tank kit. Almost all the successful tanks follow a recipe of "kill me or your whole team will suffer" and with said tanking kit, actually can soak up spells and not dying, effectively filling the role of tanks naturally. Due to complex mechanics and diverse tactics in dota, there are archetypes of offlaners which have been mentioned by our beloved youtuber.
Most successful offlaners boils down to be the most annoying guy to deal with, either by wrecking enemy carry's early game, teamwide cc, split pushing, or countering enemy lineup. with mediocre gold and beefy or annoying kit, offlaners are either have the biggest balls, self harm tendencies, or the most fucked up brain in dota. cheers
Ammar plays a different kind pf greedy 3 to what has become standard, and the development there has been an interesting journey. I'd argue it started with GG's Ace, who was top net worth in most of his games with whatever hero he picked - even if dyrachyo was playing farming carries. Then we had the WK and BB offlane meta, where you had the 'carry from the offlane' idea become essentially the only way to play, and a lot of normal Dota players jumped onto the bandwagon. That was the only time offlaners built proper carry items - for example, WK would go offllane and still build Radiance. Today, Ammar is still pretty much the only offlaner to play around dealing tremendous amounts of damage - as an example, his Mars is very different from Collapse's Mars. When other pro offlaners play high damage heroes, it's usually more about flex picking in the draft to get better lane matchups, which is extremely integral to pro Dota these days. In fact, I'm certain that one of these days, someone will absolutely counter-pick Malrine's mid Huskar, and then the pro scene will be violently reminded of how good Ammar is at the hero from the offlane.
Its because in S1 riot forced the jungle into being a role.
Back in s1 or s2, it wasnt considered troll to have a non-meta comp of anything but: 1 top, 1 jungle, 1 mid, and double bottom.
The game is extremely versatile.
Imagine if the pros suddenly decided to do adcs/sups top side.
The entire player base would start doing it, and riot would change the game.
offlaning AA/skywrath mage is amazing. Squishy asf but a nightmare to baby HC trying to farm lmao. We revel in the chaos.
Props to ammar, but tri scaling cores to dual scaling cores have existed way before him. it really depends on the patch. i believe ammar wasn't even popular yet when axe carry oflane was the absolute meta. it just that he specializes in carry oflane play style, and only play that style 90% of the time hence people associate the strategy with him.
About tank archetypes, as someone who comes from mmorpg, i see a literal rock in dota and thought "alright thas must be a guy who didnt had much damage but tanky af", but i get reminded that getting throw rocks.. Is also hurt af
Im genuinely curious how you're putting out videos so quickly and consistently, could you share some of your process?
Chat gpt
Worth mentioning that the zoo heroes in Dota (Lycan, Beastmaster, Broodmother, Visage, Lone Druid, Nature's Prophet are all alike to Yorick, their specialty is melting towers, NP, Lycan and LD more by being rats, but not engaging much in teamfights (unlike some of the League wave clear heroes you mentioned) and Beast and Visage by sticking and pressuring a lane, which is very Yorick like
dont forget there was once old meta where 1 team can be zoo by itself not depend on heroes (necronomicon)
Or can you? Yone picture.. death by laughter
6:17 yep, but if we remember some offlaners from past(like collapse, 9pasha(gold virtus pro roster) , zai, ceb, mind control) we can remember reason why they dont play so greedy-before 7.33 map has less farm. If you play very greedy-your team will suck.
Nice rendition of waltzing matilda
As someone who plays both Tekken and League (tho i main jungle), comparing top lane to a tekken match is weirdly accurate. Especially since in both if you lose 1v1, you are legally obliged to complain about how broken your opponent's character is
footsies in league hit different
i'd say greedy pos 3 is very old, like international 2 old, buldog playing furion/ lone druid and farming the hell out of the jungle
15:56 tanks definitely exist in dota in the role you describe here. Its just unlike other games who has a more streamlined gameplay (tanky frontline protecting squishy damage dealers) and strict archetype design, dota is more flexible. Apart from the usual offlaner/support tanks, pos 1 carries or midlaners who are their teams frontline is extremely common. Necro/Leshrac/Death prophet are frontline mages. Bristleback, wraith king, troll warlord (and basically all melee strength carries) become their teams frontline tank/damage dealer/pushers. Gyro, luna, and especially medusa are long-ranged frontline auto attackers.
Even in the interaction you describe here 16:52 (where frontline heroes cant effectively frontline when enemy has insane engage range), most fights are not one-shot fest that your backline just die immediately. FIghts are longer and tend to drawn out to have a definite backline/frontline roles. Engaging to an enemy backline can be hard, and heroes have plenty of ways to disengage even if they are jumped on.
That was his point. Dota doesn't have tanks, it has tanky heroes, because these heroes do much more than just being a meat wall for the team
Does bausen law exist in dota 2?
I almost cant pay attention to the video because my brain keeps trying to make me sing Waltzing Matilda 😵
I've won a game by dancing for 30 minute straight with the other toplaner.
We both had 0 kills and like 10cs.
the old off-lane meta was 1vs3, 2 suports and hc vs you ☠
i dont get it. havent played dota once but like would the off laner not just defend vs the enemy off laner? and why dont just swap lanes so the carry dont lane vs the off laner?
The lanes in dota are not symmetrical like in League and the towers are not equally distant on blue and red side. Imagine that your blue side had the tower next to gromp instead of where it is.
Their carry needs to have the safety of the tower farther away, while their toplaner doesn't care as much about the close tower since he's always a lane bully.
As a jack of all trades for both games hardest is offlane next to toplane but both deal mental damage due to how dumb sometimes your team is
Somehow Top Lane in wildrift is even worse that Top Lane in League because Riot added a new objective in wildrift. Wildrift has an alcove objective on Top . You step on a circle zone on the alcove it starts at exacly 2mins in the game a refreshes eveey 2mins until 10mins of the game past. I spawns a small version of Skarner called Ixtali Scorpio it deals aoe magic damage that can break o shove waves/freezes that hurts alot even in the mid game and gives you gold when you capture it
wave management and fundamentals?
Bristleback is Dota's Singed. Annoying, chases you, and is hard to chase. And loves to proxy farm.
Omg he said it, he said the thing, fundamentals
Real Yoricks never leave toplane ☝🏻
I think enigma is one of those "specialist" offlaners. he doesn't really fit into the traditional archetype. he is really squishy at all stages of the game, not much kill potential in lane and can't fight for 90% of the game. he gets stronger and stronger as the game goes on, and it's pretty common for him to buy midas as an offlaner. he basically just has potentially the strongest ultimate in the entire game and is an ok pusher
8:45 i disagree. Even in ADC Metas, i will 1st gank Top Lane 80% of the time. Simply because of how oppressive for my top laner can get from a very miniscule advantage. 1 kill is all it takes to decide the win for that lane most of the time. Which usually translates well into mid game where team skirmishes start to happen and my toplaner is half an item ahead than theirs who is still farmimg to equalize.
How come that yorick never leave top lane? Maybe a bad one, cause you can push 2 lanes at same time (actually you can push all 3).
He mentioned playing only quickplay so he might not be very experienced with the champ. A more accurate way to describe Yorick would be that he focuses almost completely on macro play.
5:40 when you said pos 3 are good early game and bad late game cause of bad farm. I thought, ' wait till he hears of atf' and behold the guy who destroyed meta is here.
nice civ6 soundtrack :p
Im a support main and i cant figue out toplane. It doesnt help that the only 2 toplaners i like is urgot and yorick.
Panda aint an initiator, he's an utility offlaner given his ult.
If the jungler doesn’t go top, and doesn’t go bottom. Where does the jungler go???
you should talk about quinn in top lane
Everyone wants to play top lane, nobody wants to play offlane.
Ah yes Top Lane where I was making a joke of teams by building the most bastard chmapions into Tanks and never dying against them to the point I managed to see a teammate revive 2 times becore dying😂
The absolute aneurysm I'm having right now as an Australian trying to watch the dota content while Waltzing Matilda is blasting away
ohh how I miss smite janna/twitch top :(
The only comparable person to Ammar and the revolutionization of the offlane is Suma1L and what he did for the midlane. Fun fact, whenever Ammar gets Suma1L on his team in ranked games, he exclaims that the game is already won before it even starts.
I never knew that all those poeple who scream tnak in harold aren't all MMO players but league players. Crazy
16:00 D&D doesn't really have a proper tank role either because of the lack of proper aggro.
Just curious what's your league rank?
I actually mentioned in a my midlane video that I’m just a gold player HAHAHA only reason I calibrated was to get Victorious Tryndamrere
I’m not sure if that’s my peak, but I don’t have an interest in grinding ranked these days (in any online game for that matter)
@@Acex2ron Loved the video but there were a few moments where I was like "nahhh this dude isn't above platinum" especially the teemo clips they had me rolling.
@@treefrog9162HAHAHA whatever adds to the entertainment factor