ATTENTION! All Future Fly Fishing Content from Suffering Outdoors has moved to our fly fishing channel "The Ranting Anger" You can watch more videos and subscribe here! ua-cam.com/channels/Xsd3Y2vmtqVa169jPIHCGQ.html
I learned this dropper system from a Kelly Galloup video and have been using it exclusively for a couple of years. It is an excellent method. Dave's system is alot like Kelly's. Here's a solution to when your barrel knot tag becomes too short: Prepare in advance a number of droppers of 4x. At one end tie a perfection loop, leaving the other end plain. 6" end to end. I keep them wrapped about a bit of foam in one of my fly boxes. When I want to use one (or if you've exhausted the length of your tag) place the perfection loop above the barrel knot, wind the dropper around the mainline placing the plain end through the loop. Tighten. The perfection loop will form two half hitches around the mainline. The stiffness of the loop will cause it to stand out at 90 degrees. Added bonus is the loop swivels around the main line avoiding tangles. I've used midges as small as size 22 with 4x tippet and taken trout. (I use fluoro 4x exclusively. I think it makes a difference.)
Dave - Both of your drop-shot videos are spot on! Drop-shoting (with or without indicators) enables an angler to cover water extremely effectively. Your presentations are well organized, and easy to follow. The diagram of your setup in the final part of this video makes things crystal clear. 😊
Thank you for this video and all the work you put into them I appreciate that. I would like to say something go if you fishtail Waters like we do often in Colorado the nib sizes that you fish are often times eighteen to twenty two's if you type 4X tippet to that those flies will float through the water as if they were attached to a logging chain and they won't have any natural motion or movement whatsoever. And I can tell you from my 45 years of Nymph fishing that you won't catch very much at all on high-pressure tailwaters using 4X material
Thanks for watching. As for the 4X I use it here in PA on size 18 and 20 nymphs all the time. And this is on our most heavily fished streams which I'm sure at least rank among the most heavily fished streams in the country. It works.
I can listen to Dave talk all day . This is a 13:54 video of knowledge and you can tell half way through the PASSION that come out when he speaks about this . Dropshot nymphing with sighter material Is so effective . It’s like euro nymphing on steroids . Your flies get down so much faster and you get them in the strike zone a lot quicker which means longer drifts and longer time for fish to strike . Amazing video Dave .
Great information Dave. Met you several times at the Somerset show. I also prefer unweighted nymphs. Your validated position on micro tippets for nymphs is sound. Thank you for sharing.
Great video Dave, I’m new to fly fishing. Watched your first video on this technique. Have been using this rig for a while now with great success. One of the rivers I fish has a lot of different speed pocket water, system is easy to tweak. I pre make all my rigs and put them on foam spools for fast pattern changes. Thanks again for sharing.
Tip. Several smaller split shots in a close row get stuck much less often than one large shot. Also use 7x tippet and tie an overhand knot above and below the shot, one to stop you shot from sliding off the end of your tippet, and the other above your shot, that will break off the shot if it gets hopelessly stuck. Better to lose a few shot instead of the flies. One can also use a much longer shot tippet and roll the end up and use a shot to hold the roll together. Simply unroll (or roll up) a little more shot tippet for more or less depth. Also take great care when casting, just don’t. Split shot can break your rod really easily and fast if it hits your rod.
Not sure if you know who Joe Humphreys is, he was always a big advocate of using multiple shot for that reason. He would use three smaller shots to equal the weight instead of one. I lost a lot of shot this year but that’s better than flies!
Great video. I'm a new flyfisher and have a hard time with blood knots in light tippet. What would be the impact of using a couple 2 mm tippet rings to tie your tags off of?
An advantage of drop shot rigs is the ability to overweight the rig, which minimizes the impact of heavier tippet in terms of sink rate and drag. With lightly weighted bead head nymphs, the difference between 6x and 4x is considerable in terms of performance in my experience.
Correction, for Dave's top sighter, it is 22" long and 0.014" or 14 LB Corland Sighter. Links as promised in the video! 1. Dave's complete leader setup: www.therantingangler.com/2022/02/dave-rothrocks-approach-to-fishing.html 2. The first drop shot video: ua-cam.com/video/HgYtC__K8DE/v-deo.html
Dave, Love the information. I want to get proficient at this technique. Question....There is a very similar rig referred to as the Provo River bounce rig. You can google it. Same drop shot set up as you have taught but also includes a strike indicator so you can cast with a fly line. I have not tried it but its been very poplar on the Provo where I grew up. Thoughts? Thanks, Shane
What’s your leader set up before your sighter? Are you tying your fly line directly to the sighter? I tried this yesterday, but I think I was using too thin of a leader set up I didn’t have any fly line coming out of the guides.
Great video. My question is how well does this setup work when fished on a river like the Lehigh or Delaware, where the bottom has lots of larger rocks. I understand your point about losing a split shot, but dragging on the bottom do I end up with endless, frequent snags?
That is a good question, the system will work better than a weighted fly which will snag more easily. Your goal is for a drift near the bottom not necessarily dredging the bottom. If I have frequent snags or am hitting bottom too quickly, I remove weight. The major benefit is a split shot should unsnag easier then a hook point. That doesn’t mean you don’t snag or lose shot.
Great video, thanks for the detailed explanations! My question relates to the use of only 4x tippet. When fishing tailwaters like the San Juan in New Mexico with heavy midge hatches about size 22-26 4x would seem to be too thick. Do you agree it makes sense then to use 6X?
I'll answer then let Dave correct me if I'm wrong. For much smaller flies your probably best to use a smaller tippet. You could tapper down at the end of the system. His argument for 4x is the added benefit of the strength. He doesn't believe the micro benefit of sinking faster makes a big enough difference for the whole leader to be small tippet. But he does size down for smaller flies.
I really like this concept, but tying this setup stream side would be a nightmare. You almost have to tie these rigs up before hand and keep them on you Incase you need to re-tie
It’s not bad, not as easy as tying on one fly and dry fly fishing but if your already using a double nymph rig, it’s only one additional tag. You can also run a one nymph rig with the drop shot method and it would be the same effort as a double nymph rig. Most of the fish you catch will be on the bottom fly anyway with this method especially earlier in the year.
Great video! Do you see any difference tying off the dropper fly off the bend of the hook? In my experience tying off the hook bend results in less tangles than off a tag end. Cheers!
Obviously, there's a smidgen of compromise that goes along with most everything and that relates to this, as well. The issue I see with tying off the bend of a hook is that, as a trout intercepts the fly the material attached mid-way in the bend can inhibit the hook from entering enough to allow the hook point to engage fish flesh. There's no way of knowing if or how frequently this happens. Too, it requires more effort to change the upper fly and then add everything below it.
Dave goes against the consensus for fly lines. He does crazy things like 2wt line with a 5wt for dry fly fishing. He has a whole write up on it on his website the ranting angler.
Dave, When you drop shot do you use only unweighted nymphs or can you still use weighted nymphs? I have multiple boxes full of weighted nymphs but have been sold on the drop shot technique and want to primarily do that vs euro nymphing weighted flies to the bottom. Thanks! Shane
This is John responding on behalf of Dave. You can use weighted nymphs but it may be harder to control the system. Having all the weight at the bottom is ideal. Plus. It lots the flies drift more naturally in the micro currents. We both use indicators with the drop shot system from time to time. We also believe this is a better way to fish than using weight in the flies. Good luck!
The people crying about this not being flyfishing are the same people who happily put a bobber on their nymph rigs while their fathers and grandfathers made the same complaints.
![[UA] NAVI vs MOUZ | BO5 | IEM Rio 2024](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/CMBYk0cbGoA/mqdefault.jpg)
ATTENTION! All Future Fly Fishing Content from Suffering Outdoors has moved to our fly fishing channel "The Ranting Anger" You can watch more videos and subscribe here! ua-cam.com/channels/Xsd3Y2vmtqVa169jPIHCGQ.html
I learned this dropper system from a Kelly Galloup video and have been using it exclusively for a couple of years. It is an excellent method. Dave's system is alot like Kelly's. Here's a solution to when your barrel knot tag becomes too short: Prepare in advance a number of droppers of 4x. At one end tie a perfection loop, leaving the other end plain. 6" end to end. I keep them wrapped about a bit of foam in one of my fly boxes. When I want to use one (or if you've exhausted the length of your tag) place the perfection loop above the barrel knot, wind the dropper around the mainline placing the plain end through the loop. Tighten. The perfection loop will form two half hitches around the mainline. The stiffness of the loop will cause it to stand out at 90 degrees. Added bonus is the loop swivels around the main line avoiding tangles. I've used midges as small as size 22 with 4x tippet and taken trout. (I use fluoro 4x exclusively. I think it makes a difference.)
I really appreciate you taking the time to describe your work around to tags becoming too short. Much appreciated!
Dumb question but does the perfection loop sinch down or does it stay open as it is attached to the leader?
I tie a surgeon's knot then tie a half hitch with the bottom tag that gives me a 90. Thanks for the great videos
Dave - Both of your drop-shot videos are spot on! Drop-shoting (with or without indicators) enables an angler to cover water extremely effectively. Your presentations are well organized, and easy to follow. The diagram of your setup in the final part of this video makes things crystal clear. 😊
Thank you so much! Make sure you check out Dave and I’s new UA-cam channel The Ranting Angler!
Thank you for this video and all the work you put into them I appreciate that. I would like to say something go if you fishtail Waters like we do often in Colorado the nib sizes that you fish are often times eighteen to twenty two's if you type 4X tippet to that those flies will float through the water as if they were attached to a logging chain and they won't have any natural motion or movement whatsoever. And I can tell you from my 45 years of Nymph fishing that you won't catch very much at all on high-pressure tailwaters using 4X material
Thanks for watching. As for the 4X I use it here in PA on size 18 and 20 nymphs all the time. And this is on our most heavily fished streams which I'm sure at least rank among the most heavily fished streams in the country. It works.
I can listen to Dave talk all day . This is a 13:54 video of knowledge and you can tell half way through the PASSION that come out when he speaks about this . Dropshot nymphing with sighter material Is so effective . It’s like euro nymphing on steroids . Your flies get down so much faster and you get them in the strike zone a lot quicker which means longer drifts and longer time for fish to strike . Amazing video Dave .
Fortunately for you, Dave could talk all day! Lol. Euro nymphing on steroids is a good analogy. It is a very effective method.
Great information Dave. Met you several times at the Somerset show. I also prefer unweighted nymphs. Your validated position on micro tippets for nymphs is sound. Thank you for sharing.
This setup reminds me of a high-low rig for surf fishing just scaled way down!!
Great video Dave, I’m new to fly fishing. Watched your first video on this technique. Have been using this rig for a while now with great success. One of the rivers I fish has a lot of different speed pocket water, system is easy to tweak. I pre make all my rigs and put them on foam spools for fast pattern changes. Thanks again for sharing.
This system is deadly in fast pocket water! Thanks for watching.
Excellent description. It all makes sense!
Tip. Several smaller split shots in a close row get stuck much less often than one large shot. Also use 7x tippet and tie an overhand knot above and below the shot, one to stop you shot from sliding off the end of your tippet, and the other above your shot, that will break off the shot if it gets hopelessly stuck. Better to lose a few shot instead of the flies. One can also use a much longer shot tippet and roll the end up and use a shot to hold the roll together. Simply unroll (or roll up) a little more shot tippet for more or less depth.
Also take great care when casting, just don’t. Split shot can break your rod really easily and fast if it hits your rod.
Not sure if you know who Joe Humphreys is, he was always a big advocate of using multiple shot for that reason. He would use three smaller shots to equal the weight instead of one. I lost a lot of shot this year but that’s better than flies!
Great video. I'm a new flyfisher and have a hard time with blood knots in light tippet. What would be the impact of using a couple 2 mm tippet rings to tie your tags off of?
Give it a try, it should work. Good luck!
hi dave, i ran into you the first moring on kettle creek and you noticed my drop shot rig. found your channel and subscribed.
Thanks for subbing and following along!!
Very well presented John and Dave. I’m sure this will clarify your technique for many. Thank you for your help. 👍🏻
Thank you, Scott! We had a lot of questions after the first video. It just took two years for the second!
An advantage of drop shot rigs is the ability to overweight the rig, which minimizes the impact of heavier tippet in terms of sink rate and drag. With lightly weighted bead head nymphs, the difference between 6x and 4x is considerable in terms of performance in my experience.
Love your thoughts on drop-shot “ethics”
Correction, for Dave's top sighter, it is 22" long and 0.014" or 14 LB Corland Sighter.
Links as promised in the video!
1. Dave's complete leader setup: www.therantingangler.com/2022/02/dave-rothrocks-approach-to-fishing.html
2. The first drop shot video: ua-cam.com/video/HgYtC__K8DE/v-deo.html
Thanks Dave!
Dave, Love the information. I want to get proficient at this technique. Question....There is a very similar rig referred to as the Provo River bounce rig. You can google it. Same drop shot set up as you have taught but also includes a strike indicator so you can cast with a fly line. I have not tried it but its been very poplar on the Provo where I grew up. Thoughts?
Thanks, Shane
Excellent advice!
Thanks for watching Jim!
What’s your leader set up before your sighter? Are you tying your fly line directly to the sighter? I tried this yesterday, but I think I was using too thin of a leader set up I didn’t have any fly line coming out of the guides.
You can reach out to Dave in instagram or Facebook and he would be happy to answer your question.
@@SufferingOutdoors What’s your leader setup? Including the fly line?
Great video. My question is how well does this setup work when fished on a river like the Lehigh or Delaware, where the bottom has lots of larger rocks. I understand your point about losing a split shot, but dragging on the bottom do I end up with endless, frequent snags?
That is a good question, the system will work better than a weighted fly which will snag more easily. Your goal is for a drift near the bottom not necessarily dredging the bottom. If I have frequent snags or am hitting bottom too quickly, I remove weight. The major benefit is a split shot should unsnag easier then a hook point. That doesn’t mean you don’t snag or lose shot.
Dave, do you nail not your leader? Just wondering what system you use for quick connection to dry fly leaders.
I do nail knot my leader to the fly line. I'm not averse to using loop to loop but they don't go well with single foot guides.
Great video, thanks for the detailed explanations! My question relates to the use of only 4x tippet. When fishing tailwaters like the San Juan in New Mexico with heavy midge hatches about size 22-26 4x would seem to be too thick. Do you agree it makes sense then to use 6X?
I'll answer then let Dave correct me if I'm wrong. For much smaller flies your probably best to use a smaller tippet. You could tapper down at the end of the system. His argument for 4x is the added benefit of the strength. He doesn't believe the micro benefit of sinking faster makes a big enough difference for the whole leader to be small tippet. But he does size down for smaller flies.
I really like this concept, but tying this setup stream side would be a nightmare. You almost have to tie these rigs up before hand and keep them on you Incase you need to re-tie
It’s not bad, not as easy as tying on one fly and dry fly fishing but if your already using a double nymph rig, it’s only one additional tag. You can also run a one nymph rig with the drop shot method and it would be the same effort as a double nymph rig. Most of the fish you catch will be on the bottom fly anyway with this method especially earlier in the year.
Great video! Do you see any difference tying off the dropper fly off the bend of the hook? In my experience tying off the hook bend results in less tangles than off a tag end. Cheers!
Obviously, there's a smidgen of compromise that goes along with most everything and that relates to this, as well. The issue I see with tying off the bend of a hook is that, as a trout intercepts the fly the material attached mid-way in the bend can inhibit the hook from entering enough to allow the hook point to engage fish flesh. There's no way of knowing if or how frequently this happens. Too, it requires more effort to change the upper fly and then add everything below it.
would this set up work for steel head in the streams in Erie pa
Never tried it but imagine it would. Make sure it’s permitted by regs.
How do you detect strikes when drop shot fishing
We are using a sighter material in our leader. We watch and detect strikes the same way as when euro nymphing.
Do you use a indicator when you use this setup
I’m mostly using a sighter but there are lots of times I will throw an indicator on. It works great with an indicator as well.
So does Dave fish all unweighted nymphs?
Ninety-nine and forty-four one hundredths percent of the time, yes. Use beads for dry-dropper fishing.
So you just use a 4wf fly line on that 10’ 4wt?
Dave goes against the consensus for fly lines. He does crazy things like 2wt line with a 5wt for dry fly fishing. He has a whole write up on it on his website the ranting angler.
He uses mono not fluorocarbon?
@@RGJR02 Dave here, that's right. I can't justify the costlier fluorocarbon. The only real benefit might be more abrasion resistance.
@@daverothrock8372 imo fluro is worse for the environment
@@flavortown3781 Agreed. That's another reason I don't use it.
Dave, When you drop shot do you use only unweighted nymphs or can you still use weighted nymphs? I have multiple boxes full of weighted nymphs but have been sold on the drop shot technique and want to primarily do that vs euro nymphing weighted flies to the bottom. Thanks! Shane
This is John responding on behalf of Dave. You can use weighted nymphs but it may be harder to control the system. Having all the weight at the bottom is ideal. Plus. It lots the flies drift more naturally in the micro currents. We both use indicators with the drop shot system from time to time. We also believe this is a better way to fish than using weight in the flies. Good luck!
The people crying about this not being flyfishing are the same people who happily put a bobber on their nymph rigs while their fathers and grandfathers made the same complaints.
Exactly!